Artist Matt Czap
audaxdreik 66 points 2 days ago
I honestly thinks that's just a part of it; realizing that you don't have an allegiance to other men just because you're a man yourself.
I think if woman are willing to talk about men in that way in front of you, it's generally a sign that they trust you enough to be open about their concerns in front of you without you having to push back. I try to hear the concerns they're voicing, do a quick internal check (is this me?) and if it's not, yeah fuck those guys! They're the worst!
beegnyoshi 29 points 2 days ago
Hmm, I'm personally not sure whether I'd call it an allegiance. As far as I've seen, it's mostly about belonging to the group being talked about.
For instance, in the context of the comic "Men's egos can sometimes be fragile" would be parsed as "Your ego can sometimes be fragile" leading to an unconscious feeling of being attacked, which ultimately ends up in an emotional defensive response of trying to separate oneself from the group being talked about ("Not all men!") which, ironically, in this comic's context, only confirms what's being said.
This is also how I personally parse that woman and the bear thing. Men see themselves as the "random man" and feel personally attacked when someone picks the bear. Emotional defensive responses ensue.
Nevertheless, I still like the way you phrased it. And asking oneself whether one is what's being talked about might be a great way to dampen the unconcious response.
prettybunnys 15 points 2 days ago
The other side of this is that it’s othering a group and yeah it seems cool to other a group that historically and generally has all the power, so it’s “punching up”
its still othering and almost bait by design.
piranhaconda 19 points 2 days ago
Yea I eventually learned how to not get offended by the generalizations, prior to the diagnosis, but the whole "taking it literally" thing took a bit to get over
TheRealKuni 17 points 2 days ago
Honestly it still bothers me. We are told that generalizations and stereotypes are bad, but when they’re directed and white people or men, they’re okay.
Listen, I’m not a #NotAllMen type or anything, but it is a frustrating double standard for those of us who’ve grown up knowing not to stereotype or generalize to then get stereotyped and generalized and be told we can’t complain about it.
velma 1 point 2 days ago
If you’re not the type to generalize or stereotype, then the comic is not talking about you.
It’s not generalizing all men. Just men whose egos are fragile enough to be offended when this type of interaction is pointed out.
BlindPenguin 11 points 2 days ago
Then I got diagnosed with autism. Turns out I just don’t understand most other men.
I was diagnosed with "autistic features" back in the 90s, and i feel that.
taiyang 101 points 2 days ago
On the one hand, yeah. Fragile ass mother fuckers.
On the other hand? You do learn in gender studies that toxic masculine and such is a systemic problem. Boys need hugs and love growing up that they just don't get, and it produces these soft skinned psychopaths who perpetuate that cycle.
But this is a comics community so it's fine however you want to interpret it for lols. Lol
velma 33 points 2 days ago
My kiddo gets so many hugs lol. It would be hypocritical to be aware of the issues that patriarchy brings and then turn around and let boys fend for themselves. They need support in this dogshit gendered society in addition to girls.
I will hold grown ass men accountable for their actions and unwillingness to do the emotional labor to become a good person though.
prettybunnys 14 points 2 days ago
100%
cannedtuna 64 points 2 days ago
Locking this post as it’s drawing the type of people it’s about like flies to vinegar.
Omnipitaph 47 points 2 days ago
I hate sweeping statements in general. I don't like it when people make general statements about women, men, insert race here. Its dehumanizing. We're all just people.
The "sometimes" is totally accurate in this comic though.
I haven't met many people that don't have a fragile ego, honestly. Criticism is hard :/
TheRtRevKaiser 34 points 2 days ago
I've definitely seen similar discussions around race use the term "white fragility" in a very similar way when you try to talk about things like unconscious or systemic racism or privilege.
a_jeering_serpent 3 points 2 days ago
Move over Fragile X Syndrome, and make room for Fragile Guy Syndrome. Commonly referred to as The Bitching Disease, look out for the especially virulent subtype Angry White Syndrome which has been known to spread even to those without the Y chromosome and is believed to be caused by a lack of rhythm and a bland palatte.
LurkingLuddite 12 points 2 days ago
They are two different things and both definitely exist.
AlfalFaFail 3 points 2 days ago
Do you think that the toxicity is an overcompensated reaction to the realization of fragility?
a_jeering_serpent 36 points 2 days ago
sloppy_diffuser 20 points 2 days ago
Bubs 36 points 2 days ago
I've never liked these kinds of attitudes, both against men and women. From the "wife bad" boomer mindset to the toxic "all men are pigs" that I hear people say way too often.
People are people. When it comes to the people I care about, I don't care what you identify as. I don't care what society thinks your "role" should be. You are a person just like I am. I'll treat you the same as I do any other person I care about, because that's what you deserve.
I'll see you as the individual you are instead of these useless preconceived notions based purely on what bits you have in your pants.
Tiral 8 points 2 days ago
No, they can be. The problem is as a man as soon as you show any signs of it you're made fun of by women and not desirable. There's a reason guys always say "I'm fine" when asked how they feel, it's because some woman made fun of them an degraded them when they were honest and they learned their lesson.
resipsaloquitur 3 points 2 days ago
Back in college a roommate’s girlfriend came over and cooked for us out of the blue. It wasn’t great and she scratched my other roommate’s brand new Teflon cookware with metal utensils.
We politely said it was good and thanked her.
Half an hour later, roommate #1 was berating us because his girlfriend was in tears because roommate #2 and I were insufficiently effusive in our praise of her cooking.
whereitsat 3 points 2 days ago path: 0 24366834 24366943 24366998 24367047 24367273, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
resipsaloquitur 2 points 2 days ago
The comic is about fragile egos. So is my story.
resipsaloquitur 7 points 2 days ago
“Private statement not directed at them” — the characters are in public, making misandrist comments about the people who respond.
And it’s an obvious allegory for public online posts.
Yet again, flip the genders. If men make misogynistic comments in public, should they be immune from even the slightest pushback?
No. Sexism is bad regardless of who is doing the sexism, who they’re saying it to, or who can hear it.
But the OP is rage bait and a lazy Kafka trap, so I won’t feed the trolls any further. You’re welcome to have the last word.
BananaOnionJuice 2 points 2 days ago
With the amount of hate women get by men and society, I can manage to be labeled fragile.
surewhynotlem 2 points 2 days ago
Why would you give them more evidence to justify their opinion?
BassTurd 1 point 2 days ago
Clearly there are environmental factors that lead to this. Nature vs nurture. There are plenty of well adjusted men that don't suck so it's not an inherent trait. I think it's already happening to some degree, but there needs to be more of a societal change in teaching boys about empathy and masculinity. Not promote masculinity, but to understand it better.
I know when I was young, boys crying was unacceptable. You had to be tough. It's those kinds of lessons that lead to men being not well adjusted adults. As a guy I can obviously relate to this rage bait comic to a degree, but I was fortunately raised in a stable home around good people that taught me empathy.
I also hate generalities, like "all men", "all women", "every person form , so I find it acceptable whenever any person is wrapped up in one that they can defend themselves. It's these kinds of statements like what this comic is saying, that lead to men isolating themselves or turning to masculine echo chambers for support. It's part of the problem. If people want change, they need to act in a manner that allows it. Don't generalize people, listen, interpret, and then act on that information appropriately. Some people can't be reasoned with in the manosphere, but some can. If you want change for the better, then it takes effort on both sides.
Zorque 5 points 2 days ago
It's very easy to justify your opinions when, if someone tries to take a counter position, "Oh, I didn't mean that situation so I'm still right".
The problem with this isn't that they're saying that problems exist... it's that it's so simplistic and overly-broad that it attacks broadly without ever aiming at anyone. You can just say "I wasn't aiming for you" without ever specifying specifically what you did mean that anyone trying to bring context or have an actual discussion about the problem (and thus find a way to make things better) can be seen as just being argumentative and part of that "toxic masculinity".
Talking about it and trying to find root causes, and maybe a way to fix the issue, is not perpetuating this problem. Whining about it then shutting anyone down who does the former is perpetuating it. All it does is breed divisiveness and tribalism.
velma -5 points 2 days ago
I have no patience for men who barge into a women’s conversation with “well actually” - it’s not my job to drop everything and find the root causes for why they’re acting this way or to help them feel validated because they got their ego wounded when two women were existing without acknowledging their presence.
Men with fragile egos can do the work to become better without women hand-holding them. Better yet, more stable and secure men can step in and help their brothers rein it in.
prettybunnys 0 points 2 days ago
The usual suspects in the comments, I’m shocked.
SHOCKED I tell you.
prettybunnys 2 points 2 days ago
Your comment, just like the comic, is a generalized stereotype of your bias and worldview.
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I was never vocal about it but used to be somewhat a "not all men" type of person in my early 20s. At least in my head.
Then I got diagnosed with autism. Turns out I just don't understand most other men.
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