Zelenskiy says letting Russia sell diesel to US is 'investment in war'

3 days ago by Hubi to c/world

skunk 118 points 3 days ago path: 0 26254924, hotness: undefined, score: 118, children: 9
Malica 35 points 3 days ago

To win an election, that's all he cares about

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protist 17 points 3 days ago

Trump has wedded himself to the oligarchs who are making money from data centers while an overwhelming majority of Americans hate those motherfuckers. Did you see what he did a couple days ago? What in the actual fuck. He's been disconnected from reality for his entire life, but dude is drifting off into space right now

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Taldan 9 points 2 days ago

Trucking and farming are far larger, and more important uses of diesel in the US

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AngryCommieKender 9 points 2 days ago

The military uses more diesel than anyone else. Sure half of the carriers and all the subs are nuclear, but none of our plethora of frigates and corvettes and cruisers are, not to mention the tanks, jeeps, and trucks.

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Eheran 2 points 2 days ago

2005 or 2006 numbers from wiki

The Department of Defense uses 4,600,000,000 US gallons (1.7×1010 L) of fuel annually

So 4'600 million per year for military. Total diesel usage of the USA is roughly 20 million barrels per day, so 840 million gallons per day, so 300'000 million gallons per year. Roughly 2 % for military. I doubt that is the largest consumer. Transportation should easily be more with millions of trucks.

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skunk 4 points 2 days ago

I know, I'm not literally saying that LLM's are the reason the US has to import more Diesel but it's so emblematic and aggravating example of the wasteful way in which western society (and the US in particular) uses fossil fuels I put that instead of how trains are far more efficient means of transportation, especially for logistics.

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adarza 1 point 2 days ago

'more important' to who? it's very important to dipshit and his party guests.. and they surely don't gaf about truckers or farmers. they're in it for the stock plays--maybe a little embezzlement and fraud on the side, military can always use it, the data centers might use some but iirc they're more into natural gas, and using this measly piddly little amount (less than a day's worth for the entire nation. not enough to have any measurable impact on pump prices) to trick magats and others into thinking they're actually doing something to 'help' them. i doubt any of this russian fuel even makes it stateside.

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skunk 1 point 2 days ago

More important for the economy would be my reading of that. It's really important that your goods get from A to B and that the harvest is brought in.

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Dozzi92 0 points 2 days ago

Transportation alone uses nearly 3 billion gallons of diesel annually. To suggest nobody cares about how the majority of goods and food products in America make it to our homes is peak Lemmy.

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nanometer1625 78 points 3 days ago

Trump will go down as one of the worst leaders in world history, beside Nero.

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yakko 60 points 3 days ago

I cannot think of any head of state who has a worse track record in terms of statecraft, vision, inspiration, or even pure accomplishment. Even if you flatten your moral judgment and only look to how skillfully even the evilest men in history achieved their aims, he's plainly a negative outlier. His only signal achievement is in uniting the sentiment of the entire planet against the US.

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Flower 27 points 3 days ago

He's been a really good promotor of energy independence with renewable power and sales of electric cars have never been higher.

But the rest, the dude has the mierdas touch. Everything he touches turned to shit.

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Crackhappy 4 points 2 days ago

Oooh I like that a lot. "trump applied his mierdas touch again today, announcing he will annex the Falklands"

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Lumisal 3 points 2 days ago

Pol Pot is a good contender, but even his actions didn't have this level of global impact.

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IndustryStandard -21 points 2 days ago

He is not a negative outlier. He is another step in the downward trend both Democrats and Republicans have continued for years.

Biden was much worse than Trump in destroying international law in Gaza. If Trump did that all hell would have broken loose.

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FistingEnthusiast 6 points 2 days ago

Do you clap with your fingers spread?

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IndustryStandard -4 points 2 days ago

Nothing but empty insults when you have to face reality. Sad. Cope a bit harder.

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bedwyr 17 points 2 days ago

Nero was libeled by the christians after the fact. You feed a few of them to lions and they never shut up about it. But that was the custom then.

Rome had a lot of monsters as emporers, Nero didn't even rank.

IE caricalla, and that was before shit got really bad.

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T00l_shed 63 points 3 days ago

Valid military target, then, Zelenskyy

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HumanOnEarth 44 points 3 days ago

Nothing would make me happier than to see US diesel purchased from Russia go to the bottom of the ocean.

And I'm a fucking environmentalist.

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T00l_shed 26 points 3 days ago

Right? My preference would be that Ukraine steals it for their use... but blowded up is second best

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tazeycrazy 1 point 2 days ago

Probably best not jumping on a ship full of flammable liquid with the intention of firing of a load of shots randomly. Remote drone strike it is.

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OscarRobin 5 points 3 days ago

I mean, if it manages to remain in barrels then it’s possibly better for the environment than being burned lol

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Stigger32 57 points 3 days ago

So call me confused… But isn’t Russia short of diesel itself? And isn’t this breaking a bunch of agreements between western countries?

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Nautalax 29 points 3 days ago

They are having diesel shortages and super high prices since the refineries keep getting blown up while simultaneously a lot of the middle east ones are out of commission. So not necessarily a ton for America to vacuum up and feel substantial relief but it does give fat stacks of cash to boost refinery repair efforts by pumping up demand and prices for Russian diesel

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UiUiUiUiUi 8 points 3 days ago

Good thing the US has their own refineries. This is whitewashing diesel to fund both sides of the war.

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Nautalax 7 points 2 days ago

The American refineries are maxed out in capacity right now, while they’re making money hand over fist it’s extraordinarily expensive and time consuming to build new ones so not many have wanted to fork over the billions of dollars to do so in case elevated fuel prices turn out to be a flash in the pan by the time construction is over.

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tazeycrazy 2 points 2 days ago

By the time one is built the crisis will be over or priority's shift and then you are stuck with a redundant facility that costs millions to maintain while not doing anything. I can see why it should take decades to build them to keep up with demand.

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humanspiral 8 points 3 days ago

Yes. They have banned exports. While sanctions lift is dressed up as diesel for us, its actually all energy sanctions relief to all.

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emergencyfood 4 points 3 days ago

Russia is a very big country with very limited transport infrastructure. There are diesel shortages in Russia, mostly in areas where Ukrainian missiles can reach, but for example the Northern and Siberian districts would be mostly unaffected.

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hereforgoodtakes -27 points 3 days ago

I asked Claude to explain the diesel thing, and I was also surprised to hear that Russia had banned diesel exports and just lifted the ban for this, so this was actually a favor to Trump.

Now why would he do that? Well you know how Trump is about other countries' oil. And he was already telling Ukraine not to hit the factories before. Trump doesn't seem to care or understand how much diesel exactly is coming from Russia. He just knows Zelenskyy's blowing up "his" oil now.

I wonder if they're really that stupid. But why wouldn't they be? If I'm wrong, it's not because I underestimated them. I just must've missed something.

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Taldan 9 points 2 days ago

The problem with leaving your critical thinking to AI is that you don't build any of those skills yourself

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hereforgoodtakes -10 points 2 days ago

Tell me why I'm wrong then. And would my comment have gotten upvotes if I hadn't mentioned Claude?

Edit: Also, this is just rude. Judge the comment on its own terms. I told you where I got the idea from.

Edit 2: Who's laughing now? https://www.politico.com/...

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muusemuuse 9 points 2 days ago

“I used ai so I do t have to think.”

“Please think.”

“Tell me why I should think”

This is the problem.

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NikkiDimes 1 point 2 days ago

Next time ask Grok

Edit: Apparently I should have put /s.

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SupraMario 42 points 3 days ago

Hit the ships carrying it. Legit targets. The orange traitor is a russian asset.

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VoodooAardvark 20 points 3 days ago

I honestly feel like the only reason to do this is so that when Ukraine inevitably and justifiably hits a Russian tanker that happens to be destined for the US is so that Trump can say “fuck Ukraine, they attacked us”. Over like a few hours of fuel supply demand. Ideas planted by Russians into the minds of US leaders under different pretenses - or hell maybe even explicitly. I can’t help but feel like they’re looking for an excuse to be on Russias side.

The quantity, from who should be an adversary in an active war against who should be an ally, is far too low to be meaningful other than for ulterior motives.

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ElChinchilla 9 points 3 days ago

I think the trump brain would consider this playing 3d chess while anyone casually observing is like, of course that is his move.

Pretty sure you nailed it with your summation.

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flandish 3 points 3 days ago

lying about being attacked is part of the US playbook already. see also: Gulf of Tonkin.

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emergencyfood -3 points 3 days ago

Ukraine already tried that and got their entire coastline blockaded. (Also Russia would probably use the Pacific route for transport to the US.)

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HumanOnEarth 36 points 3 days ago

A complete and total throwing of Ukraine under the bus. I cannot believe the Russian interference in US politics is so nakedly obvious and still nothing being done.

Maybe it's moot as the chaos really starts in just a few weeks. But wow.

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mirshafie 2 points 2 days ago

I don't think this is about Russian interference. The rich in the USA benefit from war up to a point, but supporting the losing side indefinitely is not to their benefit.

Ukraine can't win this war from the ruling class's perspective since Ukraine warding off Russia wouldn't award them any advantage. There's no resource or strategic asset for Ukraine to gain, they're just defending so every outcome for them is literally a loss. Rebuilding Ukraine isn't going to be worth it even as an extraction racket, and their mining resources have been overstated.

It would have been one thing if weapons sales could have forced Russia to retreat or come to some sort of concession, but that hasn't worked. What Ukraine is missing isn't weapons, it's soldiers, and nobody's ready to send men in any meaningful way.

So they want to cut their losses and normalize with Russia again. Ukraine was a fun little exercise, a spicy little risk to get a foothold in Europe's breadbasket and on Russia's border. It didn't work, but it's fine, they're investing over the long term and you can't win them all. So just be rational, throw Ukraine under the bus and move on to the next debasement of humanity.

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Duchess 29 points 3 days ago

It’s definitely an investment in the MIC. Our country is crooked and cooked.

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andrewrgross 28 points 3 days ago

I'd be angrier about this deal if I didn't suspect that Trump tweeted this without any planning and when his flunkies try to act on it they'll just get stuck asking Grok 'how do I import russian diesel" and never actually figure out how to do this.

I don't know if this is a hot take, but I don't think Trump's administration knows how international business or oil shipping works. I legit don't think they can figure out how to buy diesel from Russia.

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UnderpantsWeevil 16 points 3 days ago

Russia is currently importing gasoline, due to domestic shortages caused by the war.

Even if the US could buy it's way out, I don't think Russia has enough to sell

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protist 4 points 3 days ago

People in the US have largely not been paying attention while Ukraine has destroyed a ton of Russian petroleum infrastructure.

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adarza 1 point 2 days ago

trading some of their limited fuel for dollars, though, might have some uses.

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UnderpantsWeevil 1 point 2 days ago

Certainly, trading the promise of future fuel for dollars right now has a bunch of uses.

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SkavarSharraddas 8 points 3 days ago

Maybe they just want an excuse to bully Ukraine into stopping attacking Russian oil refineries.

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adespoton 4 points 3 days ago

That, and Europe just figured out how to deal with a large portion of Russia’s shadow fleet. This gives that fleet US protection.

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RedGreenBlue 3 points 3 days ago

How are they dealing with them?

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HumanOnEarth 4 points 3 days ago

Yeah you got it on the nose

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UnderpantsWeevil 2 points 3 days ago

Definitely crooked.

But cooked? Not holding my breath.

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Sam_Bass 25 points 2 days ago

its also giving aid to the enemy

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anarchy79 21 points 2 days ago

It's so fucking sad, pathetic, and treasonous.

Suddenly USA is aiding and abetting Russian imperial wars? And favor them over allies?

This will end in disaster.

Imagine, the courage and bravery of the Ukrainian people to defend their nation against unprovoked aggression with such consummate sense of duty and with such heart, only to be stabbed in the back by the very country who waged endless proxy wars against "communism" and the Red Threat for the better part of a century.

This is a disgrace to humanity, a stain on our civilization and an affront to all those who fought and died to ensure the continued existence of civil democratic society.

Abysmal.

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Unquote0270 2 points 2 days ago

Suddenly? The US has been siding with Russia and snubbing Ukraine and its allies for a few years now.

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raspberriesareyummy 1 point 2 days ago

Even from a rightwing standpoint pre 2010, this confirms Russia managed to turn the government and make them their bitch. Which means despite losing in Ukraine like the pathetic genocidal maniacs they are, Putistan won the cold war.

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minorkeys 19 points 3 days ago

It's funding it. No money for Ukraine but they'll fund Russia, who apparently needs America's help to defeat Ukraine, not just needs to stay out of it. Ukraine might defeat two of the worlds superpowers at the same time. Slava Ukraine.

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Radical_Socialist_t00t 17 points 2 days ago

Ugh, fuck the US

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GreenKnight23 1 point a day ago

*fuck Trump.

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Witchfire 2 points a day ago

The rot goes waaaay deeper than Trump, but yes may he follow in the footsteps of his idol Adolf and paint the walls of the Trump-Epstein Friendship Bunker

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raspberriesareyummy 1 point 2 days ago

I don't think there's still a "U" in Magastan.

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wirebeads 16 points 3 days ago

Russia is supplying America with 10 minutes worth of energy.

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Corkyskog 1 point 2 days ago

I am convinced the only purpose of this is so Trump can blame Ukraine when diesel prices are still high a month from now.

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Gpennyhigh 14 points 2 days ago

This is deplorable, self-inflicted issue and then let sick putin off the hook. This is bad fruit produced from bad people and policies. Healthy policies and ways to be excellent to each other, produces good people, but so many keep insisting on the bad ways/trees which produces the bad fruit.

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humanspiral 8 points 3 days ago

This starts in November, and not a midterm saver. Unless US is able to significantly restrain Ukrainian attacks on refineries, oil instead of diesel is what will get exported more. The reason for US to do this is that they know oil prices will collapse the global economy based on their November military plans for Iran.

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Taldan 2 points 2 days ago

Russia doesn't have much diesel to export. Putin instituted a ban for a reason

This will help the midterms in that it's an "accomplishment" Trump can point to that will totally fix his fuckups right after the election

Just like he's been claiming the Iran war will end right after the midterms

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humanspiral 1 point 2 days ago

I don't think it can substantially reduce diesel prices prior to midterm unless it encourages US refineries to go even harder as if $6+ diesel retail wasn't already enough for them to go full out. You're right that diesel export capacity for Russia will take a while to rebuild.

Just like he’s been claiming the Iran war will end right after the midterms

There's 2 general possibilities for "ending" Iran war after rather than, with bonus points for elections, prior to midterms.

  1. Respectful sincere peace with Iran, all the while declaring victory as US forces leave. This raises questions about just how victorious the US is. The reason this path can't be chosen before midterms is "Iran failure/impotence" is neither a good look, nor a reason to vote for the diaper licker candidates.

  2. War escalation under theory that this will force Iran to beg to surrender. "end of war" prediction comes from more probable war until 2028 election..

I doubt US establishment is capable of peace with Iran, and so option 2 is only desired path. Still there are 2 huge obstacles.

  1. Democrats sweep both houses in midterms. War powers, and war budget not passed. Impeachment in the air.

  2. even if GOP rigs a win, a $700B military budget increase will have bond markets revolt harder. Global economic collapse is already teethering. There is no war path, or pretense of super power status, that ends well for US/global economy.

Pressures to end the war (just leave with big victory speech) are inescapable. Fucking it up hasn't stopped US before.

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inb4_FoundTheVegan 6 points 3 days ago

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scaredoftrumpwinning 5 points a day ago

I wonder if Putin actually suggested it to trump

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weps 5 points a day ago

It's Trump's style

To win, you need someone to lose

if his allies lose, he's winning

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Monte_Crisco 2 points a day ago

The surprising part is that he must see Americans as his allies, because he seems quite content with causing us to lose over and over.

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GreenKnight23 1 point a day ago

you're almost there...

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FlashMobOfOne 5 points a day ago

Z, buddy, you knew what you were allying with. The US is a warmongering nation. I hate it, but that's what we are. That our country didn't jail Donald after January 6 was all the information you needed to know the risks associated with being a US proxy.

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Blackmist 4 points a day ago

He's not wrong. What is the point of sending Ukraine weapons if you're going to pay Russia as well?

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Lushed_Lungfish 3 points a day ago

Money for blood soaked billionaires.

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selokichtli 2 points a day ago

USA SELL weapons to the EU so they can send them to Ukraine. It makes total sense.

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someguy3 4 points 3 days ago

Yes.

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architect 3 points 2 days ago

Countries play both sides. Here we see it in action and not just history. This isn’t new but the question is what’s their actual goal. We can only speculate.

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jasoman 2 points 3 days ago

Yeah, the smart ones in us know.

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BiteRabbit 2 points a day ago

Translation: War is a hegemonic device for forced oil dependency

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answersplease77 1 point 3 days ago
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Tiral 1 point a day ago

Let's be real here, it sounds like a lot of fuel. It isn't.

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BiteRabbit 1 point a day ago

Koch oil refineries in Russia never stopped churning

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doingthestuff 1 point a day ago

Doesn't he want to join the EU? Aren't EU nations doing the same? It seems everyone has a price when it comes to fuel and energy.

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humanspiral -5 points 3 days ago

Meaningless unless US stops supporting satellitte targeting assistance to Ukraine.

Everyone here seems so enthusiastic about having a proxy war on Russia. You gain zero, and next Russian leader won't be so patient with you.

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tangosox 4 points 3 days ago

Russia won't stop unless they run out of funding. And Russia is not our friend. They have no qualms interfering with our and other countries elections and have shown they don't respect borders. You don't want Russia to get stronger at this point, if they let off attacking Ukraine then you negotiate. You don't reward a bully when they are being a bully.

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gewindestift 1 point 2 days ago

oh wow, helping a nation in its fight for literal survival against a totalitarian imperial state which

  • now routinely fires ballistic missles into residental areas
  • does hunt civilians with drones in "human safaris"
  • lets civilians starve in the occupied areas
  • and and and... because "you are a made up country, we're both slavs and i'm the master-slav so you do as i tell you or else..."

is now "being enthusiastic about having a proxy war on Russia"

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humanspiral -1 points 2 days ago

Pre US coup, and nazi orientation, of 2014, Ukraine had 4x standard of living over just 2023 levels. Shithole permanent destruction is that regime's fault, 100%. US puppetted Ukraine is 100% responsible for the destruction of Ukraine. Nazi "bussified volunteers" is a bribery operation instead of constructive prosperity path.

By "everyone here" I meant the delusional NATO subjects, rather than Ukraine psyop accounts.

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darthsundhaft -37 points 3 days ago

So when the US (who has committed war crimes) give Ukraine weapons, that is not considered "investing in war"?

Why do people romanticize war? It's disgusting. Call a spade a spade. War isn't pretty. War isn't nice. Just say what you mean.

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surfrock66 34 points 3 days ago

Ukraine can't opt to stop the war... They were invaded. Giving them weapons is a defense against conquest. Reducing Russian sanctions prolongs the war by refilling their coffers so they can keep invading.

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humanspiral -25 points 3 days ago

US started the war through Ukrainian puppet rulership. Ukraine absolutely can stop the war by allowing liberated regions they hate, and were ethnically cleansing to force the war, to join Russia as they voted for. Pure demonic evil to support nazi rulership to the last Ukrainian.

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peopleproblems 11 points 3 days ago

Oh god there's more of you

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SuiXi3D 24 points 3 days ago

Dude, fuck you. Kiev is attacked basically daily. Do you expect Ukrainians to just lay down and take it? Ukraine is doing their damndest to respond in the only language Russia might understand. The fact that they’re still independent is a testament to their solidarity, their fighting force, and their determination to not be a vassal to anyone.

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darthsundhaft -24 points 3 days ago

You can fuck me all you want, doesn't change the reality that US has committed war crimes. It doesn't change the FACT that war IS NOT PRETTY. It's not FAIR. It's not AGREEABLE.

You ever listened to the song by the Edwin Starr? I recommend a listen. Romanticizing something as evil as war is when humanity really dies.

We're allowing evil people like Trump and Putin to idle by when we should be doing what dumbasses tried to do during Jan 6. The fools in power will not listen until they are forced to. Waiting only prolongs this madness that everybody tries to justify because they want to be on the right side of history. 🙄🙄🙄

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ElChinchilla 23 points 3 days ago

I am anti war. If someone invaded my country, I would fight them. Slava Ukraini.

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