Hell freezes over, MS Paint adds support for layers and PNG transparency

3 years ago by stopthatgirl7 to c/technology

Automated background removal was also added recently.

LetterboxPancake 238 points 3 years ago

Better hold on to your pants, Photoshop. Here's the new contender!

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Death_Equity 100 points 3 years ago

As GIMP cries in the corner.

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3laws 51 points 3 years ago

GIMP 3.0 stomps door with sexy moustache

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HidingCat 27 points 3 years ago

As it should, I've tried twice to use GIMP, always gone back to Photoshop.

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angstylittlecatboy 34 points 3 years ago

For how relatively well known it is (it's probably like the next most well known piece of FOSS after Linux and Blender) I can't believe how bad a piece of software GIMP is.

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aksdb 33 points 3 years ago

I hope you mean the UX. I think attacking it's functionality would be unfair. It does everything good and right .... technically.

If the UX is objectively bad or "just" subjectively might be hard to find out. I would assume if there are objective UX mistakes, some contributor might have been able to deal with that by now. But of course it doesn't change anything if a majority doesn't like it for subjectice reasons. It's part of UX design to deal with subjective aspects.

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Phen 10 points 3 years ago

I use Gimp a lot.

It does its job very well, but that job is not to be an alternative to photoshop.

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gmtom 8 points 3 years ago

I used GIMP before Photoshop and I still massively prefer GIMP.

I really think its a case of what you got used to first.

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Potatos_are_not_friends 5 points 3 years ago

Then all the defenders go "But it's free and open-source!" and you can tell they are just paying lipservice.

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Xanthrax 1 point 3 years ago
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Matriks404 3 points 3 years ago

Paint is not designed to be GIMP/Photoshop alternative. It is just a simple drawing program. Although it is great that they have finally added these long-awaited features, as I may finally move from paint.net, which is also great but it has one huge drawback - it is not a single window, which is a hassle.

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toxicbubble 1 point 3 years ago

been using photopea for years, highly recommended for quick projects!

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AngryHumanoid 110 points 3 years ago

Screw you Microsoft, I switched to Paint.net forever ago and I'll be long dead in the cold, cold grave before I recognize Missourah, I mean switch back to Paint.

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Sterile_Technique 48 points 3 years ago
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insomniac 30 points 3 years ago

The developer of paint.net sells it on the Microsoft store to support the product. Not any different than buying an app through the App Store or Google play store.

It’s created by a Microsoft Engineer, not super surprising they leverage Microsoft tools to get paid.

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Sterile_Technique 5 points 3 years ago
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lemmy___user 12 points 3 years ago

You can also use winget to install it, if you're into package managers

winget install --id=dotPDNLLC.paintdotnet -e

That way you can still get semi-automatic updates

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lanolinoil 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 3572590 3574646 4511505, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
N1cknamed -2 points 3 years ago
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galloog1 4 points 3 years ago

The single most historically aware yet still funny to the unaware joke that the Simpsons ever put out.

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Caaaaarrrrlll -1 points 3 years ago
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AngryHumanoid 6 points 3 years ago

True, I was just saying the name.

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XTornado 4 points 3 years ago

I think is a bot it keeps saying that everytime somebody says "paint.net". If not a bot is a weird guy for sure because in context of some of the other messages it doesn't make sense to say that.

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Caaaaarrrrlll 1 point 3 years ago
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fne8w2ah 101 points 3 years ago

Actually a truly useful update in a sea of bloatware crap.

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ICastFist 88 points 3 years ago

Win11 exclusive? Welp, guess I'll never use it, then.

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Kolanaki 22 points 3 years ago

I've used Vista "exclusive" programs on XP back in those days so I'm kinda curious how exclusive it really is if I could get the installer/files for it.

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ICastFist 23 points 3 years ago

Shouldn't be too hard, I expect it to be a single executable stored in C:\Windows\System32 , much like the current mspaint.exe. Copy it over, run, have fun

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EeeDawg101 12 points 3 years ago

Wouldn’t surprise me if they lock it to the windows store. I hope I’m wrong!

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The_Mixer_Dude -32 points 3 years ago

Windows 11 is pretty awesome though

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ICastFist 69 points 3 years ago
  • Once you remove all the tracking and ads, which were already fucking intolerable in 10
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lord_ryvan 0 points 3 years ago

10

That's where you lost credibility.
Windows 7 was their last non-tracking OS.

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The_Mixer_Dude -24 points 3 years ago

1 minute during setup is not exactly a sacrifice

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ICastFist 30 points 3 years ago

It doesn't stop all tracking, a lot of it still happens in the background, only "without identification". If you thought otherwise, I have this pristine Eiffel Tower for sale.

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ex0dus 12 points 3 years ago

It's not 1 minute, you have to be technically savvy and run scripts from GitHub

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SkyeStarfall 10 points 3 years ago

It shows where Microsoft's mind is at. And it won't stop here.

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otter 21 points 3 years ago

It's still missing a handful of features from Windows10, which might keep some people from upgrading

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imgonnatrythis 9 points 3 years ago

Yeah that and on my custom built pc that runs awesomely windows 11 poo poos some of my hardware and refuses to take up residence all together.

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The_Mixer_Dude -21 points 3 years ago

I'm running Windows 11 on Chromebooks without issue.

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The_Mixer_Dude -7 points 3 years ago

I'll bite, what features are missing

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HidingCat 12 points 3 years ago

Ungrouped task bar buttons, I like seeing what's running on my task bar at a glance. And I don't like having it shrunk down to just an icon either.

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omicron 6 points 3 years ago

Windows 11 is a much better experience for developers than Windows 10. I see a lot of people who just hate on it for no real reason other than it's different.

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TheyKeepOnRising 8 points 3 years ago

I'm a dev and I hate Win11. I could list dozens of reasons why, but one that pisses me off daily is that they removed keyboard shortcuts from task manager for no goddamn reason. Alt+E is the shortcut to end process on every other Windows OS except Win11 because it was made with malicious incompetence.

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HidingCat 6 points 3 years ago

Eh, I don't hate Windows (unlike a lot in the Fediverse), but I wouldn't say Win11 is awesome. It probably just works. From what I see it's just a mildly-improved 10, which is nice, but missing a few things (no grouped task bar button option in my case), which is why I'm holding out for now.

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squirrelwithnut 77 points 3 years ago

Those are great features and two of the biggest reasons I never bother with Paint. But locking them to Windows 11 and not putting them out on Windows 10 is some Grade A bullshit.

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ManosTheHandsOfFate 34 points 3 years ago

It sure isn't enough to get me to bother installing 11.

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kaesaecracker 2 points 3 years ago

I get why they do it though - any change to win10 needs testing and so on and might not be welcomed by the user base. You can always download a free (as in freedom) image editor, some are even on the Microsoft Store. Be glad they did not backport all the bad sides of win11...

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dangblingus 11 points 3 years ago

They had no problem turning windows 10 into mock windows 11 despite what the userbase may think. I don't think adding QOL updates to Paint is going to be met with furor.

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youRFate -3 points 3 years ago

Why would they port new features back to a legacy OS, there is no reason…

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lord_ryvan 0 points 3 years ago

Because everyone still uses it.

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Unicode13051 68 points 3 years ago

I'm a hobbyist digital artist and have had to do a handful of graphic design projects for my mundane, non-art-in-anyway job.

As our computers are locked down Windows PCs, I've had to manage with MSPaint. It's always taken me double the time as on any other program or app, and I have been wishing it had layers for years.

Since this update is Windows 11 only, I'll have to for my company to upgrade, so I can look forward to layers in maybe 5 years.

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aksdb 32 points 3 years ago

Take a look at PhotoPea then. Needs nothing more than a browser. Runs fine in Edge and can be installed as PWA. That should work fine even on a locked down machine.

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sonnenzeit 21 points 3 years ago

In case your browser isn't completely locked down: there's also image editors that run as web apps like photopea.

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MargotRobbie 15 points 3 years ago

I recommend Krita, it's free and open source, and very good at making digital art of any kind.

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schnurrito 18 points 3 years ago

The commenter you replied to literally wrote the computers are locked down, ie no way to install any new software.

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HaggierRapscallier 6 points 3 years ago path: 0 3576574 3580514 3581996 3583819, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 3
hamid 9 points 3 years ago
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UnD3Rgr0uNDCL0wN 4 points 3 years ago
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raldone01 2 points 3 years ago

Do you use krita for vector graphics?

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UnD3Rgr0uNDCL0wN 2 points 3 years ago
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tvbusy 12 points 3 years ago

Try Paint.net. Layers, transparency, filters and even plugins. It's free to download from their website. Install from Windows Store does have cost as a way to donate.

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eee 3 points 3 years ago

Idk why you got downvote but paint.net is where its at.

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derpgon 12 points 3 years ago

Because OP said his PC is locked down.

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Klear 1 point 3 years ago

There's a portable version I'm pretty sure.

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Vodik_VDK 2 points 3 years ago

Paint.net is nice because it has plugin support.

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And009 8 points 3 years ago

It'd probably bore you to do things the easy way anyway. Accept happiness.

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saze 3 points 3 years ago

This is what I'll be telling myself as I rock and cry myself to sleep at night.

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phx 3 points 3 years ago

Are you able to use WSL under Windows? Combined with something that can display X11 graphics (such as MobaXterm) you could pretty much use whatever Linux-based software from within the windows environment, including stuff like GIMP which does transparency and layers etc just fine

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Exec 6 points 3 years ago

There are builds of GIMP for Windows.

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phx 1 point 3 years ago

LoL. You're right. I keep forgetting that for some reason

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CherryRedDragon 61 points 3 years ago

Excellent! Now I can draw things on the wrong layer in yet another program

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etler 13 points 3 years ago

Have you tried using descriptive layer names like layer 1, later 2, later 3?

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Why9 14 points 3 years ago

Layer 1, Later 2, Lazer 3.

FTFY

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dukk 6 points 3 years ago

Or just use only one layer.

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FlyingSquid 45 points 3 years ago

Great. Now my customers are going to send me even worse art.

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echodot 16 points 3 years ago

At least with layers support you can now extract the individual parts of the image.

What used to drive me nuts is when they send me over everything in one image and I couldn't separate the various components out.

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Voyajer 13 points 3 years ago

Their clients will still manage to send them a 6MB bitmap somehow

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sysadmin420 12 points 3 years ago

My clients send me fuggin docx files with screenshots pasted in it...

Screenshot.doc /me cries

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Shayeta 4 points 3 years ago

Right click, rename, .doc to .zip. Extract and enjoy.

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dangblingus 3 points 3 years ago

I don't think your average paint user knows what a layer is.

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ares35 41 points 3 years ago

meanwhile, wordpad.. probably used by more people over the age of seven than paint is, getting axed.

microsoft has office subs to sell, but they do not have a photoshop or gimp or even a paint.net alternative to sell.

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MrLuemasG 35 points 3 years ago

I've literally never met anybody that used Wordpad, whereas I know a lot of tech normies that'll use MS Paint for quick memes and things

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pomodoro_longbreak 9 points 3 years ago

I used it back in my Windows days. Out of the box, I think it's the only way to do rich text on Windows. Also (used to be anyway) one of the less resource intensive options.

You know, for when you've got Napster, Winamp (with visualisation), ICQ, and MSN all up and barely running. You don't want to have to run, like, WordPerfect at the same time! Your MP3s will start skipping :p

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Corkyskog 5 points 3 years ago

They can cut WordPad, if they kill Notepad then IDK what to say...

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PlutoniumAcid 2 points 3 years ago

Notepad++ FTW!

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nucleative 1 point 3 years ago

Fellow notepad.exe aficionado here as well

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Classy 19 points 3 years ago

I've been using Notepad++ for a good while now and it's proven to be a great alternative to MS WordPad.

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private_account 2 points 3 years ago

Can you format at all in Notepad++? I tend to use it for notes jot down in a rush or editing tiny scripts. For stuff that needs to look prettier, I tend to use Google Docs.

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stringere 3 points 3 years ago

Yes and then some. It has built in support for a lot of programming languages plus allows you to add more. It also support extended and regex find/replace.

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kaesaecracker 6 points 3 years ago

They created WordPad because of antitrust issues and never changed it. Try opening a Word document created by a recent version, it's pretty useless today.

Notepad rules though, it even got UTF8 support recently-ish! /s

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AndreTelevise 5 points 3 years ago

I think they're just pushing people to use OneNote (which is free).

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theRealBassist 1 point 3 years ago

Free with lots of features stripped out

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AndreTelevise 2 points 3 years ago

Honestly not that bad if I want to use it for notetaking. But not as full-featured.

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theRealBassist 2 points 3 years ago

Yea that's totally fair. I'm just bitter cuz it makes running my D&D sessions harder lol

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ArchmageAzor 37 points 3 years ago

As someone who enjoys doodling in Paint, this is great

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Stalinwolf 5 points 3 years ago

What did you think of the changes between Paint XP and modern versions? I used to adore Paint XP, but brush smoothing (though toggleable) and a clunky interface really spoiled the newer versions for me, and I don't enjoy using them as much. I think I just became so used to the primitive way of drawing well in the old versions that it sort of became it's own art form. Now they there are more advanced tools and so many required extra clicks, it feels like baggage. In the words of Karl Havoc, "THERE'S TOO MUCH FUCKIN' SHIT ON ME!"

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ArchmageAzor 6 points 3 years ago

Honestly, I never used Paint XP. I've only used the modern version.

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HawlSera 36 points 3 years ago

Huh.... I thought they discontinued this program.

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dangblingus 23 points 3 years ago

Who told you that? MS Paint is basically a critical windows utility.

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jadegear 8 points 3 years ago

If you remove mspaint.exe then Windows will refuse to boot. It's true, I knew a guy!

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Aux 4 points 3 years ago

Jokes aside you can boot Windows without Windows at all. By that I mean you can boot Windows NT without Win32.

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tmijail 12 points 3 years ago

They discontinued Paint 3D

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Lyrl 11 points 3 years ago

They did. I guess the community outcry was so loud even Microsoft had to heed it and reverse course.

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Anders429 10 points 3 years ago

I thought so too. I remember looking for alternatives for when it would be removed completely.

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Blackmist 7 points 3 years ago

Paint.NET has been my simple go to for over a decade. I've never got on with Gimp or Photoshop. Paint.NET is more like Paintshop Pro used to be.

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Corkyskog 2 points 3 years ago

I honestly didn't realize I had been installing it... I went to boot paint.net and was surprised I couldn't find it on my work computer... that's how critical it is... or how often I don't change personal hardware

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Piers 5 points 3 years ago

No. Wordpad is the one being discontinued. Paint is one of several programs that can now be uninstalled from Windows by end users without any special tricks.

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kamenlady 4 points 3 years ago

I read that WordPad also was being discontinued, in the same article stating the same about MS Paint iirc

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WetBeardHairs 30 points 3 years ago

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WhyIDie 26 points 3 years ago

I really do like it for something that I want to just add quick/small edits to, or something that can be slapped together quickly. But I do hope this isn't the start of a trend to bloat mspaint and aim to compete against more robust image editors.

The pessimist in me fears they're going to, and start slapping on AI data harvesting measures that they're integrating into Windows, like for training their own AI art generators. But this addition, in a bubble, is a welcome change.

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Aielman15 25 points 3 years ago

Very cool.

I like Paint for its simplicity, and since I don't need all the extra bells and whistles most of the time, I've never bothered with learning how to use Photoshop or GIMP.

I've been using Paint.net for the last few years, but I'll try the new Paint features as well and compare them to see which one I find better.

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Klear 0 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I'm using paint.net for most of my editing (photopea for rest) but I would never have made the switch from just paint if it wasn't for layers and transparency. Those are a big deal.

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Caaaaarrrrlll 0 points 3 years ago
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iwannet 13 points 3 years ago
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Psythik 5 points 3 years ago

They're probably using an instance/app where any two words with a dot in between them automatically gets turned into a URL.

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crazyminner 24 points 3 years ago

If it can pretty much do what I've been using paint.net for I'm sold.

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AdmiralShat 15 points 3 years ago

I will continue to use Paint.Net, as it's been a solid software for the 15 years I've needed it.

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Caaaaarrrrlll 10 points 3 years ago
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sevenapples 15 points 3 years ago

The program itself is actually called paint.net

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WindowsEnjoyer 24 points 3 years ago path: 0 3606106, hotness: undefined, score: 24, children: 3
heird 21 points 3 years ago path: 0 3606106 3606369, hotness: undefined, score: 21, children: 1
WindowsEnjoyer 1 point 3 years ago

Also works great on Linux :) And free.

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Jok3r 3 points 3 years ago

Yes jspaint.app is perfect! Highly recommended

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TrismegistusMx 23 points 3 years ago path: 0 3572602, hotness: undefined, score: 23, children: 0
Nepenthe 22 points 3 years ago

But today Microsoft announced that it is finally adding two features that could make the app a bit more useful for power users: support for Photoshop-esque image layers and the ability to open and save transparent PNGs.

What kind of person is an MS Paint power user. I just use it to paste screenshots into if I'm not intending fine editing, otherwise it might as well not exist as a program.

The only person who seriously uses MS Paint for artwork is that one guy who recreated the Mona Lisa out of hundreds of pieces of variously burnt toast. Real, usable art tools would destroy the purpose and make that guy sad.

Really, if they kept this kind of momentum up for the next 20 years, it might put it on par with Fire Alpaca. It's an interesting move, they're just so incredibly late to the game that even other free programs are still leagues better than they are and no one will ever take them seriously again.

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Deceptichum 27 points 3 years ago

I use Paint almost daily.

Especially when I can’t be arsed opening Steam/Aseprite. Paint is a pixel art work horse.

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Nepenthe 8 points 3 years ago

I forgot about people who do pixel art, and I'm terrible. People like you are invaluable to the gaming industry and the ornate ones are their own skillset I'm kind of always awed by

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InternetCitizen2 2 points 3 years ago

Reading about other peoples workflows is always really cool. Thanks for re-contextualizing a tool :)

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ElectroVagrant 22 points 3 years ago

What kind of person is an MS Paint power user.

Some older folks that aren't as tech savvy have made some impressive pieces with it if memory serves. There's also those that use it unironically for its constraints to produce pieces with a classic MS Paint style produced from those limitations. In a way this update kind of flies in the face of that a little, maybe, but eh.

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TheyKeepOnRising 10 points 3 years ago

Transparency and layers is hardly a power user feature. Any common person wanting to make a meme worth half a chuckle will need both of those features. MS paint always starts up super fast compared to PS or GIMP so I'm looking forward to these features for fast meme creation.

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rockSlayer 6 points 3 years ago

I'd consider myself a paint power user. My job (QA) gives us a NUC and wants us to edit screenshots and videos on said NUC. It's not going to be a fun time with Photoshop, online tools are expressly forbidden, and alternative software needs manual approval by GIS.

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cybersin 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 3573145 3612413, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
MonsiuerPatEBrown 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 3573145 3575553, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
Nepenthe 0 points 3 years ago

Glorious. This alone has swayed me. Whoever runs this account, I'm glad they haven't been yelled at by some soulless office robot

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callyral 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 3573145 3597403, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
asteriskeverything 19 points 3 years ago

So many artists started with paint. I am really glad it is adding some features that are significant improvements that will help today's young artists even more.

I'm talking about kids, like an age before you're likely to become aware of other free tools... Wait. Fuck, do kids even use windows computers anymore or is the closest a chromebook?

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Psythik 9 points 3 years ago

Wait. Fuck, do kids even use windows computers anymore or is the closest a chromebook?

Your instinct is accurate. The younger generation doesn't use Windows computers. They're happy with just their phones, Chromebooks, and Steam Decks. They even play games on their phones, despite the fact that mobile devices don't include any gaming-friendly input methods out of the box. They straight-up use the touchscreen to game on and are absolutely okay with it.

(Also IB4 someone replies to me with "I'm a teenager/20-something and I use a computer". Obviously I'm not referring to you, my dude. Just the average person your age. Also this is satire)

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Devgard 7 points 3 years ago

iPads now 💀

path: 0 3575394 3575574, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 1
aircooledJenkins 1 point 3 years ago

Kindle fire

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jayandp 18 points 3 years ago

What's the low-down on if extracting the EXE and putting it on Windows 10 works?

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TWeaK 10 points 3 years ago

I found this guide: https://beebom.com/... haven't verified it or anything though. It's a bit old but it should still be possible in any case.

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randon31415 17 points 3 years ago

Didn't they say they were retiring ms paint in 2017 for some other program no one had heard of?

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EnmaAi22 8 points 3 years ago

Wasn't it something like Paint3D?

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MooseBoys 8 points 3 years ago

Yeah this was during the peak of VR hype when MS sunk a ton of money and effort into HoloLens and Mixed Reality.

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Bonesince1997 5 points 3 years ago

I think they floated something like that, but there was push back.

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Anonymousllama 16 points 3 years ago

Sounds like a good little update, love seeing more default apps/programs getting new visual updates and helpful features

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derpgon 9 points 3 years ago

All those Wordpad developers need something to do after all.

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iforgotmyinstance 15 points 3 years ago

I use paint nearly every day to save something quickly. Glad to see it continue to be supported.

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quazar 14 points 3 years ago

Does it still save in one of the most basic but still GIGANTIC file sizes?

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Tschuuuls 26 points 3 years ago

Don't hate on Bitmap files.

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pomodoro_longbreak 13 points 3 years ago path: 0 3590004 3591000 3594865, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 2
AndreTelevise 3 points 3 years ago

It's like corrupting 8-bit games, isn't it?

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pomodoro_longbreak 8 points 3 years ago

I couldn't tell you the technical reasons, but yeah same concept: Break the source data in just the right way that the end result is interpret-able, but with interesting defects. There is a bit of an art to cutting and pasting and sculpting the data in just the right way. You get a feel for it after a while.

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tacosplease 10 points 3 years ago

Watch me

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callyral 6 points 3 years ago

what are bitmap files? are they just a list of pixels or something else

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icydefiance 9 points 3 years ago

That's pretty much it. Apparently the format optionally supports compression and even transparency, but last time I used paint it didn't do any of that, which is why the files were so massive.

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bionicjoey 9 points 3 years ago

I'd love to see KDE KolourPaint add these features

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autotldr 8 points 3 years ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The venerable, equally derided and beloved MS Paint app has been on a roll lately, picking up a major redesign, dark-mode support, better zoom controls, and other fit-and-finish updates all within the last couple of years.

But today Microsoft announced that it is finally adding two features that could make the app a bit more useful for power users: support for Photoshop-esque image layers and the ability to open and save transparent PNGs.

In an image program without support for layers, adding new elements to an image like this is always destructive—you lose the ability to see and edit the part of the sky that is covered by the plane and the cloud, and the part of the plane that is covered by the cloud.

Support for creating, editing, and saving transparent PNG images goes hand in hand with support for layers, since it's useful to be able to pull a single object out of an existing image so you can put it in a new one.

Transparent PNG support goes well with the automated background removal button that Microsoft added to Paint builds earlier this month.

The redesigned Paint is rolling out to Windows Insider testers in both the Dev and Canary channels, the two bleeding-edge and less-stable versions of Windows 11.


The original article contains 388 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 45%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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ILikeBoobies 7 points 3 years ago

What stops them from bundling paintdotnet instead?

The license allows for redistribution

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calebcharles 7 points 3 years ago

Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers!

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dingleberry 3 points 3 years ago

Ballmer: my water is yours.

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Rentlar 3 points 3 years ago

Thanks Steve Ballmer.

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AndreTelevise 1 point 3 years ago

Do they have variable weight? Are they planning to add that? Because I'd really like that for quick sketching and doodling.

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