Here's the thing: You don't. You can't. There are no magic words to make someone see things your way. You can give them ideas to mull over, but you can't convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. You can be open, express your views and give your reasons to anyone willing to listen, but that is the extent of what you can do. Some people may eventually come to you for advice; welcome them and guide them as you can. Most people may take some bits from you but never start actually caring. That's ok, that's their way.

You can't force people to do things your way, nor should you try. Just be honest.

Everyone's being so despondent. Of course it's possible to convince someone to care about privacy. If they're your friends, you'll know them better than we do. What do they value? What do they care about?

In my experience more people care about privacy than you think. But they just think it's hopeless. They're constantly being told "There's no point. Every company already knows everything about you. Give up."

Bullshit. Even if ad companies have a nice tailored set of data on someone's interests, behaviours, routines, etc. the moment that person cuts off the supply, that data starts becoming less relevant, less useful and less valuable every day. Once I explained that to a few people I had a bit more luck getting them to install ad blockers and stop posting so much personal info online

Talk to them in a language they'll understand. If they deal drugs, tell them they're much less likely to get caught using encrypted messaging apps. If they're into true crime, point out how many stalkers were able to track their victims down using what they'd posted on social media

If you asked me the same stuff even just 5 years ago I would have responded the same. I am a tech enthusiast and work in tech. It took some time for me to understand the risks of not taking privacy seriously. I needed to discover how companies like Meta, Google or Microsoft collect and abuse our deeply personal information.

So, I recommend doing the same to people around you. Inform them of particular examples (e.g. Google flagging a photo of a baby taken for doctor's analysis as CSAM), not just the risks. You may change the opinion of a few people, but it is unreasonable and unlikely for you to affect everyone around you the same way.

Some can't be convinced. The privacy (or lack of) tradeoff is worth it for them for the convince of the platform.

First, don’t expect to change their mind with anything you say.

Second, keep it simple and only provide details if they ask.

Third, make it less about logic and appeal to pathos and ethos more. If they’re Christian, talk about your “God-given right” to privacy. Talk about how you don’t like your fourth amendment rights being stepped on. If they ask about that, then start adding in some actual arguments. “If the governments not allowed to invade my privacy, then who do these corporations think they are?” “The governments not allowed to invade my privacy without a warrant, but they just buy my data from these corporations anyway, it’s basically illegal!”

Be subtle about it, free of judgement. Don't lecture them on something they likely know already, and (semi)consciously ignore to maintain an unhealthy, yet comforting pattern. It's rather about planting seeds, than doing the thinking for them: let them come to their own conclusions next time they use it.

It's all about predatory dark patterns, that deliberately exploit human psychology; so gear them up to recognize these abusive mechanisms. Not in a direct way, but just by casual conversation about content on their timeline, with some observation woven into it, like: quite some advertisements, huh? What does that little text say? Oh, "sponsored content". Do your friends still post things? Because I haven't seen any on your timeline. Shouldn't that be the entire purpose of this platform? They give you notifications about friends liking other's posts now? That seems a little excessive.

My mom has been using the platform a lot less since I did, and she even has opened up to the concept of disabling Facebook push-notifications. The latter needing some more time, because she's struggling with a fear of missing out. I once disabled push-notifications for news applications too without asking, so perhaps I should do the same for Facebook (Messenger being a different application anyways).

The main problem seems to be that users have, successfully, been conditioned into wanting anti-features. My mom actually clicks personalized advertisements, and I have no clue how to cure her from that; other than to joke about a particular shoe brand always being featured. I already substituted her ad-ridden weather app for a Firefox (with uBlock) shortcut, which she has really come to appreciate. So there's progress to be made: it just requires the right approach, and a lot of patience; which is worthwhile for loved ones.

I talked to a guy like you a while back, and then he also mentioned he used "Brave" and he was surprised when I mentioned the awful things behind it. So perhaps re-evaluating your suggestions and own choices is the first step?

You can't control or convince others.

What you can do is live your best life and let them know it. Not in an annoying way, but in a real way.

How many conversations do I hear about spam calls or text messages? Everybody hates them and they get in on this commonality thing of yeah we all hate that it sucks. Then I bust out with a, yeah I'm glad I don't really deal with that anymore... Wait what? I have a solution?

Then I break it down, and I'm very clear my measures are not for the faint of heart. But its a spectrum and there's some low hanging fruit they can do to dramatically change things from where they are. Do they do it? No. But they now know there is a better way and acknowledge it, then actively choose not to do it.

Does that change anything? Yes and no. No, nothing technically changed. But yes, they understand a little more now. So now they don't treat you like a crazy person or if you say you'd rather not use WhatsApp or whatever they aren't so insistent that this is all you being weird.

Stop making it a confrontation is my point. That makes you the bad guy. You're not, the companies and governments are. Let them see that.

I ALWAYS get the "I have nothing to hide🤣" argument.

And I know that is very stupid but I can't convince them why that doesn't make any sense.

Save your breath. Middle class America is happy to queue up for authoritarian rule as long as it saves them 10 minutes shopping online. Half my neighbors have Alexa in their homes and a ring camera on their door to report on themselves. My own family thinks I’m a conspiracy theorist because I won’t connect my appliances to the internet.

I try to go after the biggest improvement. Aka I recommend a different browser when the opportunity arrives. Like when they complain about ads.

"brave" is joke?

Depends on the audience but I've found adding "it's just common sense" to the end of my argument tends to be more effective than citing sources.

I've had success acting like a high-pressure marketer to my family. It's what the regime does, and it works.

First, you get or download an alternative product without asking anyone.

Second, you ask them politely the first time to try it.

Third, if they do not listen, you paralyze their brains and activities with a fight until they listen. Trump does this to great effect on the conservative base.

When you deal with people who don't care about protecting their privacy, you're dealing with people who have authoritarian values. You have to be an authoritarian to them because that's what they've been conditioned to respond to.

We all make a personal judgement calls on the price we're willing to pay for convienence and communication.

I'm going to come at this from a totally different direction. What you need to understand is there are 2 types of normies. The normies who are generally extremely boring and just apathetic about things and the normies who will, with no exception, only listen to conspiracy theory. I'm talking their brain runs on that shit. It's what gives them a reason to live. You know how I got my mom to care about her privacy? I told her the government was going to use Amazon data to profile her for her political beliefs and black bag her. To her that was a much more convincing argument than anything reasonable. So yeah just meet them where they are. Bring up some common conspiracy theorys and see which ones they perk up about and then just work the privacy angle into that. They'll be on board.

If logic doesn't work, which it often doesn't, I'd expect the most effective way to be highlighting how it can affect you, or public pressure. Like "did you hear how Facebook tested how it can influence people, and even drive them to suicide?", "did you see that cop who stalked their ex using flock cameras?" Or "you know those smart glasses? Turns out they do spy on people even without permission, but they can also look shit up in real time. Anyone interested in them is a weirdo/pervert."

It's really hard to wrap your mind around a data leak, but one cop being a sick fuck? That you can take in. Get them interested first and then offer solutions.

You don't. They will either come to it themselves, or they will end up in the gulag.

I think a handful of research examples. For instance, I used to work at a non-profit that does donor-based fundraising that apparently had an account compromised, and the bad actor just sat and waited until the right time.

Then, when a donor asked for details about how to contribute, that was when the attacker sent an email from the compromised account with instructions to wire to some outside account we had never heard of. It was caught right away and nothing bad happened but it was still too close for comfort.

I don't believe in the fatalistic assumption that it's impossible to communicate about. It happens to real people after all. But I think you have to be specific and have specific action steps in mind.

You can try telling them about all the ways their information is used against them. Collect information about how the current govt is using all sorts of information to target and harrass people, especially immigrants.

You can teach them about surveillance pricing, and how companies are using their personal data to drive up the cost of goods.

Realistically, from experience, you just annoy them, and they taunt and dislike you.

To put it plainly, we're just fucked. We continue absolutely careening towards a surveillance dystopia, and very few people seem to care at all.

Are you above the normies, below the normies, or at the same level of the normies?

I convinced my Family and some friends of the importance of privacy, other, well, the Darwin award. It's not possible to do more than advice the importance online on social networks, each person must be responsible for their own actions.

Telling someone to improve their privacy is like telling them to eat healthier. They probably know on some level that they should do better, but it's breaking habits. Changing their...everything is a daunting task on top of everything they actually want to do.

It's a sales pitch, so I'd say sell them on one small lift at a time (Firefox, uBlock, DuckDuckGo) and build on them as they get comfortable with privacy control. Don't shame them, don't look down on them, don't be overly pushy.

Just let them be the low hanging fruit to reduce your chance of being targeted.

people have be conditioned to prioritize convenience over all else and only their material conditions will determine whether or not they start giving a fuck. if they or someone they care about gets bitten by it, they'll start caring -- like republicans.

I find a lot of people don't feel confident enough with computers to mess with their PCs or phones to secure their tech, and I kind of get it. Like people act every impressed with my linux PC or Graphene Pixel. Ive seen old ladies give remote access to their machines to random smooth talkers, so I do understand its something many normies cannot even comprehend.

You don't and stop worrying. I told BIL TVs are spying cause let's be real it isn't just LG. And he still hooked up his TV to the internet. Probably thinks I'm super paranoid. People just don't care.

Offer user friendly alternatives. The quick win is a privacy friendly browser.

Ask them why the accept all the cookies while browsing when refusing doesn't change the experience.

I've starters elf hosting alternative for my family. If it just works they'll follow.

Have you tried shock therapy?

lol normies would be the first one to divulge YOUR information along with their own. they do t care

Ask to any normy.

Would you give you home key to some random in the street ? I Guess not. Even if it say he's working for the gov ? I guess not.

Can i see what you are doing when no one is looking ? When you are in your home, not knowing that i'm watching behind your back ?

Now let it cook a year, and come back. You will see a shift.

It's too late to matter imo. People are addicted to dopamine rewarded by the algorithms, it takes work and will power to get over that. By the time you whittle them down, they'll be on their way to be black bagged.

They'll start to understand once a few of them have been rounded up for liking the wrong brand of breakfast cereal.

I don't care what apps other people use.

Talk to them about things they know about already. Cookie banners, social media, google adware. They just need to have their own concerns reinforced. You don't need to nor should you give them your entire diatribe

I'm gonna try starting with this. It's crazy to me how people are just used to living with ads

https://www.cbc.ca/...