We can get it back, and the antitrust trials are a big part of actually doing it
kitonthenet 34 points 3 years ago
bassomitron 56 points 3 years ago
It's not that no one cares, per se. We just live in a society where the majority of working adults are fucking exhausted. They have bills to pay, uncertain job security, seemingly constant climate crises/natural disasters in many geolocations (e.g. Canada and US West Coast wildfires, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.), hyper polarized partisanship in many countries (yeah, it isn't unique to the US), and on and on. That Google, Microsoft, or Amazon own the internet is such a low priority to the much more immediate, life threatening/living security concerns of the majority of people.
I care, but I also understand why many people do not.
Pat_Riot 14 points 3 years ago
Man, I would love to run a Linux box and still be able to run the like 4 programs I use my computer for, but I don't have any interest in running an OS I have to build and make work. I got Redhat working once (feels like a million years ago) and I am just not that interested in my PC anymore. It's a tool. I want it to work without any fiddling on my part. It has exactly 5 programs it ever has to run. I touch it on the weekends. Windows it is.
This is me agreeing with you in every way.
iegod 2 points 3 years ago
You realize all of that old shit is still possible today right? Static plain html still works. It loads quicker than ever. The only thing preventing it is the creators of the content. The masses on social media were never going to create that so having Twitter around doesn't change the possibilities. Get cracking.
CosmicCleric 0 points 3 years ago
The Fediverse is there, now.
I use Lemmy and Mastodon, on a daily basis.
kitonthenet -2 points 3 years ago
then why are you even here?
PipedLinkBot 3 points 3 years ago
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
kitonthenet 1 point 3 years ago
then give up and go away, or watch the video and reflect on your comment
FlyingSquid 13 points 3 years ago
The internet was better when it was Usenet and Gopher.
WaxedWookie 20 points 3 years ago
The internet was better when it was a pair of tin cans and a string.
FlyingSquid 12 points 3 years ago
Oh sure, like that was an improvement over cave painting.
KingGordon 5 points 3 years ago
I definitely preferred oral history.
CosmicCleric 1 point 3 years ago
Cave paintings are overrated. Hand shadow puppets on the cave walls were always more dynamic.
CosmicCleric 0 points 3 years ago
Wi-Fi back then was using carrier pigeons.
rwhitisissle 10 points 3 years ago
Honestly, the internet was at its best when it was the fever dream of stoned, sexually frustrated grad students at Berkley. Infinite potential - it could've been anything. Could've. But wouldn't. The real thing, after it became fully saturated in everyday American life, was always going to be some mediocre, watered down corporate cesspool of lowest common denominator, hyper-sanitized garbage. Because that's what people like. They like safe, familiar, predictable, and uncomplicated. Well, most people.
STRIKINGdebate2 115 points 3 years ago
Yup. It definitely feels like over time the human element of the Internet has been replaced by a corporate one. The most blatant example I can think of is youtube. Nowadays it's so obvious rigged in the favour of already established media and a select few content creators.
UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 31 points 3 years ago
Yeah I'm feeling less like a participant, and more like a consumer on the "greater internet" (five big), compared to the early days when corporate presence was minimal, and not remotely slick or subtle. It was like dorky and obvious, and didn't seem remotely like a threat.
HipHoboHarold 8 points 3 years ago
Feeling like a consumer is a great way to put it. It especially feels more and more like it when trying to do even the most mundane tasks. Like if you own a product but need to ask a question on Google about it, first you have to scroll past the links to pages trying to sell you the product you typed in, then you might get some reddit links, 2-3 from a smaller forum, and then more links trying to sell you the product. It will say there's thousands of results, but it's just the same 6 links to purchase the product over and over again. So now even basic web searches are mainly for buying stuff.
Fungah 7 points 3 years ago
Search is broken. It's been getting worse year over year and Google / Bing and all the various offshoots that are JUST GOOGLE AND BING (this isn't a fucking secret, people. You can slap whatever algo you want over Google / bing and it's still fucking Google and bing. And a jolly go duck duck fucK yourself to the lot of them).
I pay $10/month for kagi. Its worth it.
bobs_monkey 1 point 3 years ago
I've been using SearX for about a week, and so far it's pretty decent.
UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 0 points 3 years ago
Sounds interesting. I'll check it out. BTW I like how unhinged your comment is - you sound like a fun person who I wish I knew IRL
UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 2 points 3 years ago
And then now that Alphabet owns YouTube, the first couple results are always monetized videos... It's brutal.
RandomPancake 16 points 3 years ago
I miss the day when you could search YouTube for something like "JFK skyclub" and actually get video of the Skyclub at JFK. Today you'll get 15-minute videos that are 90% a guy talking about his thoughts on JFK, or Skyclub, or airlines, or whatever. If you're really lucky, some of them may feature a few seconds of actual footage of Skyclub.
It's not just Skyclub or travel videos. If I search for "repair mr coffee" I want to see a howto, not someone's SEO-optimized long winded lecture about whatever coffeemakers they're selling.
tdawg 8 points 3 years ago
So the weird thing is you can still do this but only if YouTube thinks you're the right audience for it. My grandfather looks up all kinds of old things on YouTube and almost always get exactly what he wants on the first hit. However if I do it it ends up more like your example. Interesting and annoying at the same time
pirat 1 point 3 years ago
Sounds like it would actually make sense to have a handful of different accounts, each account optimized (through search/watch history or something) for a specific type of content you want to search for.
Otherwise, 3rd-party search engines are often better than YouTubes own search for finding obscure/rare/unpopular/unlisted/demonetized videos.
Daft_ish -6 points 3 years ago
But we act like youtube is something more then just a place to post videos. We can build a new youtube tomorrow if people weren't so invested in it. If you have some content on YouTube you just can't live without fine but for everything else lets migrate... sorry, got a little preachy.
Edit: I get all you think everything's impossible. I get it, I'm not going to be the one to make new youtube but obviously if it were to happen you are not the ones I would pitch to.
Sestren 33 points 3 years ago
Yeah, that's completely untrue... The reason we can't just create a new youtube is the same reason there aren't more ISPs. The infrastructure cost is too high.
You can't just build a site that allows video uploads and playback, throw it on a Pi and release it to the world. You need scalability, and that costs money.
Maybe the end solution is a distributed system, but that's not something you can easily sell to the average Joe that doesn't give a shit about the "how" or "why" with Youtube, and simply wants to watch videos.
I'm not saying that Google isn't the scum of the earth, but there is currently no feasible way to recreate what they've made/bought without an absolutely stupid amount of money.
Hagels_Bagels 5 points 3 years ago
Maybe the end solution is a distributed system
I think this already exists and is called PeerTube. In my experience it doesn't work very well.
Chee_Koala 4 points 3 years ago
YouTube itself is bound to implode because of the cost of all that infrastructure.. sheesh. I recently reduced my YT time to the bare minimum, after being screwed out of premium (light), and found out about Peertube. It's pretty bare bones, but viral videos can use P2P to offload the main server, which I thought was smart and fair. So, federated YouTube can be done I think. It won't be easy though, or cheap.
SaltySalamander 9 points 3 years ago
It's objective fact.
amio 25 points 3 years ago
We can build a new youtube tomorrow
Unfortunately not. The cost would be astronomical. Youtube bled money like a stuck pig for a long time, and their monetization has turned out predictably awful, every time.
Don't get me wrong, the competition would be great, or at least having the option of something... less Youtube. There's a reason you don't see a lot of alternatives around, though, and certainly nothing at the same kind of scale.
UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 7 points 3 years ago
I get your heart's in the right place. But good luck finding investors to pay for the massive infrastructure costs to back your YouTube alternative (read competitor) without a plan to extract money from someone. Not even to break even, but to turn a profit.
It would be nice if there was public money to create these alternatives - that was m way you wouldn't have to worry about profit, just whether your solution is meeting the public need.
AceFuzzLord 2 points 3 years ago
I don't know how much it costs to run or how ads fully function on the service, but we do have Odysee. I have yet to have seen a single ad from my collection in the app outside of creators whose vid that's also up on yt having a sponsored segment.
Edit:
Just booted up the app for the first time in a while and they have some minor things. Noticed a little bar at the top with a list of channels and scrolled down to find a featured section.
UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 2 points 3 years ago
That said I'm with you. I try to avoid YouTube whenever I can. Wish more people would do the same
spacecadet 88 points 3 years ago
Worse than what? Paying Atlantic for a subscription?
BolexForSoup 107 points 3 years ago
Whether we like the Atlantic or not, I feel like at some point if we want quality journalism we need to fund it.
what_is_a_name 31 points 3 years ago
You miss the bigger picture. The shit journalism and propaganda are still free - funded by … other means . That is why magazine have tried to be free in the internet.
You’re also operating with the wisdom of hindsight. No one knew how to handle internet publishing. We all learned together.
cave 15 points 3 years ago
I pretty much agree, but I really wish we could move away from ads being literally everywhere in our lives. I'd rather them just charge a little bit more and have a better experience. It's probably falling on deaf ears, though, because nobody ever wants to pay for anything on the internet.
ZombieTheZombieCat 6 points 3 years ago
nobody ever wants to pay for anything on the internet
To your point, maybe if what we got in return were worth a shit, people would be more willing to pay. But it gets shittier and shittier, more and more inundated with ads, worse journalism with more clickbait and AI, all for prices that go up every year to multiple times per year.
It was more reasonable when you could go to the store and pay for one newspaper or one issue of a magazine. Then if you really liked it you could subscribe. Now there's no other option but to subscribe. Not everyone wants to be paying a bunch of separate subscription fees per month just to get decent news, and not everyone wants one hundred percent of a news outlets content. But we're charged for it regardless. Fuck no, no one wants to pay for that.
Maybe if it were one of the only things that required a subscription. Like it used to be. But now, almost every single thing we use comes with a subscription charge and there's usually no other way to pay for it. It's all or nothing. And it gets totally exhausting, aggravating, and ridiculously expensive, especially when they force you to pay for a bunch of shit you don't need, or they charge you cancellation fees on top of an extra month, or raise the monthly price without telling you, or tack on extra charges for shit that should just come with it in the first place, etc etc.
My point is, no one should defend the subscription model. If an outlet does good journalism, they'll have donors. PBS Newshour, NPR, Democracy Now, they're some of the best souces and they're all nonprofit. And, what do you know, none of them have actual ads.
And shoutout to local libraries to loaning current magazine issues online. I get a Libby notification every time the New Yorker comes out. And I'm sure they're losing a ton of money because I don't personally pay for a subscription /s
stillwater 4 points 3 years ago
Doesn't matter how it happened, only that it is happening and everyone is disinterested in saving quality journalism.
The fact that yellow journalism is free and quality journalism is hidden behind a paywall, and the fact that many internet people are indignant about both journalism in general and paying for it while also guzzling down exclusively headlines and third hand information in comment sections through a firehose, are what will be studied in future decades about why there was suddenly a strange and convoluted anti-intellectual movement in this era.
FlyingSquid 14 points 3 years ago
But do paywalls actually encourage people to pay? I would point out that NPR/PBS and The Guardian are at least partially funded by the people but still offer news for free and it seems to work.
BolexForSoup 13 points 3 years ago
NPR is funded by underwriters, donors, government grants, and licensing their content to affiliate stations. It’s actually really interesting to see how they’ve cobbled it together. So yeah it’s free for you and me but a lot of money is actually flowing back and forth.
Point being there are a lot of ways to fund things!
FlyingSquid 8 points 3 years ago
My point is they don't have to rely on paywalls. And I don't know about The Guardian, but NPR isn't trying to make a profit, which is probably part of it. Anyway, I use it for a lot of my news. It's not wholly impartial, but it tries a lot harder than most American news outlets.
GlitterInfection 5 points 3 years ago
Regulation would be a better way to improve the quality of journalism, IMO.
Theharpyeagle 11 points 3 years ago
I think that would be opening a pretty nasty can of worms. I don't trust any ruling power to decide what "quality" means for the press.
GlitterInfection 3 points 3 years ago
Not really opening up anything. For instance, BBC news is regulated and a lot more reliable and factual than anything in the US. And the US had minimal regulations which were removed in the late 80s and others removed in the 90s. That's why the quality of journalism in the corporate-controlled world has crumbled in my lifetime.
Or another way to put it: the ruling party DOES regulate the news in America, but the ruling party is the wealthy folks who own the news. There is almost no worse system than "funding" the news to get quality.
sbg 16 points 3 years ago
Fair point. I don't mean to suggest that authors don't deserve to be paid for their work. And while the article discusses Google and Amazon's attempts to manipulate online behavior to drive up their profits, I remember a time when paywalls were a rare exception rather than the rule while reading articles online.
Copernican 22 points 3 years ago
That's because there was a time when everyone had print subscriptions that were healthy, and the internet just gave them extra money for ads. When you start losing subscribers because everyone is looking at your shit online for free, you learn you need to charge for it.
bandario 3 points 3 years ago
Is anyone actually paying for it though?
Don't get me wrong, actual journalists deserve a great wage. I just haven't seen much of it worth paying for in recent years. Real journalists get locked up and it looks like the rest took that threat very seriously. I'm not going to pay money to read corporate puff pieces and controlled opposition.
ReluctantMuskrat 2 points 3 years ago
The Atlantic often does long, in-depth stories and has proven to be a very reliable source. Their journalists have proven themselves in getting some great sources. Just in the last couple of weeks admissions by John Kelley and Gen Milley have proven stories The Atlantic broke 2 years ago with anonymous sources were accurate and credible.
Copernican 2 points 3 years ago
The Atlantic is a pretty reputable source. And I think there's a difference between subscribing to news for news reporting like the New York Times, The Guardian, etc, vs subscribing to magazine like the Atlantic, New Yorker, or New Republic that will give you more political commentary and analysis. Both have a role to play and both need subscribers. I subscribe to the Atlantic on and off (I've kind of rotated between the atlantic, new republic, and the nation over time). Primary subscriptions for my household are the New York Times and New Yorker. Then I have my annual membership/donations for NPR and PBS. Gotta support the news and good political commentary. It's holiday season soon. Subscriptions make good holiday gifts.
CubbyTustard 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 4266457 4266716 4266855, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
stillwater 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 4266457 4266695 4302056, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
PutangInaMo 0 points 3 years ago
Oh the irony
uis 71 points 3 years ago
It's called enshittification.
PipedLinkBot 15 points 3 years ago
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Krauerking 36 points 3 years ago
Simple, capitalism found a new promised land. The next space to fill up. And manifest destiny within.
Unfortunately but fortunately as well, it's an infinite space. Early money has built large infrastructure within it. It's been built over time and now is so massive it's hard to comprehend in the real world. It's nearly impossible to compete with them other than them tearing themselves down, but the space is still nearly infinitely large and competitors can still rise in the fringe and who knows after decades maybe rise to the same kinda massive company
So now we must limit the infinite. Cull all of it to the finite they can control. The virtual world is real, the metaverse is already upon us, and unfortunately it's already starting to look like the late capitalism asphalt shopping plazas.
So it's worse cause it's built for the investors and being limited for them too. It's why people beg for the next BIG thing, so that they can find new land or new ways to control this 4th space.
snausagesinablanket 20 points 3 years ago
so that they can find new land or new ways to control this 4th space. Pretty sure that Meta was meant to be the next big market space.
I think Zuckerberg was expecting all of us to sit in a chair with VR headsets on all day and buy buy buy.
I personally feel like it's a total invasion of my privacy because it learns "me" and then tries to influence my every move a lot more intimately than cookies in a browser does.
Krauerking 13 points 3 years ago
100% absolute control over your life to sell you as much as possible.. And people consider that a utopia and not a problem
TheSaneWriter 6 points 3 years ago
It also shows how detached some of these billionaires really are. A VR system is not yet affordable for the majority of Americans, and the technology has much more development to do before it's as widespread as video game consoles, never mind PCs.
snausagesinablanket 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 4278132 4288689 4327609 4374530, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Krauerking 7 points 3 years ago
Yeah no. Not a chance we see valid competitors until cracks really start forming in the services these monopolies can offer. It's gotta get worse before there can be competition and so they can t just buy them and aquire it to break immediately. I mean we can see some monopolies having their fun ruined look at Twitter; but Facebook, Amazon and Google have money in reserve and an ad system (or AWS) that pays all the bills still.
But yeah people don't comprehend that these massive online companies are all the Nestle of their space and people can't even comprehend what being the Nestle of Nestle is, and the power they wield.
MataVatnik 3 points 3 years ago
The virtual world is real, the metaverse is already upon us, and unfortunately it’s already starting to look like the late capitalism asphalt shopping plazas.
Poetry
Thrashy 6 points 3 years ago
Or give me the joy of discovering a webforum dedicated to some niche community you were interested in, and making actual, real-life friends with the people you met there. Can't say that I've made a connection like that since, oh, Burning Crusade-era WoW at the latest.
Thrashy 4 points 3 years ago
From Vanilla through Wrath I played with a core group of college buddies and we collected more friends as we moved between guilds on our server. Out of that extended group resulted two marriages and a half-dozen or so real-life friendships with people from all over the country and from all walks of life. I struggle to imagine anything like that happening on the Internet as we know it now. Social media seems engineered to promote only passing and often hostile interaction with people outside of your core group, and games have engineered away all of forced social interaction of community servers, clan/party/guild formation in favor of fast and frictionless matchmaking that pairs you up with randoms that you may never see again after one game. The early Internet promised to connect you with people from all over the world, but we've collectively decided instead that we just want easy, tokenized interactions with people who we never have to get to know.
propaganja 0 points 3 years ago
That was nice but early reddit days, before subreddits, were the best days of the Internet.
mushrooms_smell_bad 28 points 3 years ago
Tell me no one actually needed to be told that. Please. For my sanity.
Misconduct 4 points 3 years ago
Hold on let me Google it....
Sorry, just seven pages of ads about vacuums because I bought one six months ago and links that all go to the same regurgitated article that only vaguely mentions it 🙃
douglasg14b 2 points 3 years ago
Please tell me no one thinks that evidence < anecdotes? Please, for my sanity...
The sad state of knowledge & logic aside:
There is SIGNIFICANT value to proving something we all think is true. This means action can be taken, it can be cited in argument, and is actually credible as opposed to a "feeling" that's it's worse.
Sure, we "know" it's worse. I've experienced search results getting worse and worse for what seems like nearly 10 years now. But I have no proof of this, as such it's an anecdote.
CosmicCleric 27 points 3 years ago
Its time to 'AT&T' Alphabet/Google/YouTube.
FarceMultiplier 27 points 3 years ago
Trust corporations to ruin something people enjoy.
pineapplelover 8 points 3 years ago
Or disabling js. Most of you use ublock origin. Ublock has a setting to disable JavaScript and you can whitelist sites you want js
pineapplelover 1 point 3 years ago
On some websites it does. For example, it's worked for me on newyorktimes
z3rOR0ne 4 points 3 years ago
True, but that's yet another step every time I want to read an article. Personally i just use ublock origin and add this custom filter list.
And yeah, you can also turn off JS to accomplish a lot while browsing the internet.
possiblylinux127 14 points 3 years ago
I would get off google if I were you
z3rOR0ne 10 points 3 years ago
I strangely feel very conflicted over Google. I have a Pixel phone which supports the security hardened GrapheneOS.
Were it not for Google allowing their phones to be so easily rooted, I'd probably be with Apple, who have their own egregious privacy invading practices.
Google also left rss feeds available on Youtube, which essentially allowed me to easily move my subscriptions to my rss feeder instead of outright subscribing. Then, thanks to Invidious, I just use an extension to reroute any time I visit that channel/video.
Grant you, Google could easily remove these features that strangely enough allow for easy migration away from their platform, and I can definitely see a future where they do just that.
It just is such a strange thing for a company to have these built in aspects to their products that literally allow you to migrate away from their platform.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that this gives Google some sort of pass to do as they please. I haven't used Google search regularly in a very long time. I still use their email and calendar solely because my current job team uses it as one of their main scheduling tools, but would prefer if we used something like a NextCloud instance.
In short, I have done some things to get away from Google's suite of software and will continue to do so, but these strange loopholes, especially the interesting relationship Pixel/GrapheneOS has, make me wonder about how Google could still make certain products and remain a smaller, much more regulated, part of the Internet as a whole...
Potatisen 4 points 3 years ago
The amount of people who would do that, like you, me and possibly most of the Lemmy users, are so small that the good PR is worth it. Guaranteed, if there's a mass exodus those options will disappear.
abs_solution 14 points 3 years ago
I believe what you meant to write is "The internet IS worse"
Sludgehammer 11 points 3 years ago
Well... you gotta hand it to them, that's a succinct summary.
winterayars 10 points 3 years ago
If people are actually acknowledging this maybe we could do something about it.
Google should have been (should be?) nationalized. Or maybe stick it under the USPS. (If only people weren't constantly trying to kill the USPS...)
ultratiem 6 points 3 years ago
The FTC’s lawsuit against Amazon is actually insane. It’s like they have a cheat code for printing money. Google is definitely just as bad, worse even as they control much of the internet, right down to the architecture.
ShittyRedditWasBetter -5 points 3 years ago
God forbid you pay someone.
mildlyinfuriating
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mildlyinfuriating
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Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that. Please post actually infuriating posts to !actually_infuriating@lemmy.world
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Internet was better when it was a bunch of forums and personal web pages
save