2 years ago by flamingos-cant (hopepunk arc) to c/linuxmemes
Just take the next step and make a text file you dump all these commands into and then forget about in a week. When you randomly stumble across it years from now you’ll be able to say “wow, I could have used this 10 months ago if I remembered it existed!”
I make a separate text file per command so I can search them!
Which I dont.
Use a systemd timer to send yourself a reminder. Discoverd them recently myself and honestly liking them more than cron.
I feel you. It’s however gotten a lot better since I turned some of these commands into abbreviations. They’re aliases that expands in place, more or less. Fish has them natively, I personally use zsh-abbr.
Yeah, it’s a good shell. I’ve found the lack of compatibility with some bash tools to be inconvenient enough that I just went back to zsh and found alternatives for the parts that I liked about it. Works well enough for me.
I'm relatively new to Linux in general (have only been on it for about a year and a half, but have taken to it like a fish to water), so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what are some benefits to using zsh over bash? Are there any cons?
No, UNIX philosophy demands that every single one of those things is one or more separate things and that half of them are poorly or not at all maintained. Just like God intended.
Finding the next super holiday is a core system feature I could survive without. 🎉
Well, date time stuff for a system working with timers and scheduling actions might be pretty useful...
Try scheduling a cron tab job to run a task on dates defined that way.
But that's not what I need and the world revolves around me...
I think this is for setting date oriented timers
Not that that's bad when it's stuff like this
How is this functionality bad?
Too much
But that has been a complaint for 10 years and it's only gotten worse
I wouldn't mind systemd if it weren't for the fact that it was to be a startup system that promised to make everything easier and faster to startup yet managing systemd is a drag at best, and of it did one thing it's making my systems boot up like mud
I feel like the glued together collection of scripts was way worse to manage than systemd.
Is it? It was always super easy to get anything done and with systems it suddenly got factors more complicated. Port assignment was super easy to do, note the past tense. It now requires systemd and instead of a 15 second config file change and service restart I now need to create and delete files, restart multiple services, God knows what in systems.
Simply put: why? If you make an alternative solution AT LEAST it shouldn't become way more over complicated to get basic tasks done
Aight, didn't know that. I cannot yet imagine any scheduled task that would require anything more advanced than cron (or a similar standalone syntax), but I'll just trust you with that one.
Can you tell Cron to catch up on the things that should've happened but didn't because the system was off?
Good thing it's editor agnostic so everybody can do the right thing in the end and choose nano
ed is the standard text editor.
Enough people mention it that I've jumped over to helix
Eyy, helix mentioned! The only editor that can handle the 50k LoC files at work.
alias systemd-texted=micro
systemd is the future, and the future has been here for over a decade and yet old Unix and BSD purists still cry about it
I have one simple thing to say to the downvoters: I am not using a minicomputer from 1970, why should I be bound by the limits set then?
They are also still complaining about PulseAudio, despite Pipewire having mostly replaced it, while spending hours fiddling with ALSA to use their headphones.
I've felt like systemd has been a breeze compared to the hodgepodge of different stuff that preceded it. Now most distros have it mostly the same way, tools are well documented, things works together. It wasn't always like that from what I remember
In the UK, if Christmas or New Year falls on a weekend, a seperate equivalent holiday is made during the week to compensate.
Wait, do other countries not do this? So if a public holiday falls on a Saturday it doesn't get pushed to Monday?
Netherlands doesn't do this, and we have less holidays then UK haha
So even when you lose you win.
Don't do that in Norway either - just bad luck if the holidays happen to land on a weekend. On the other hand, we have five weeks of paid vacation, and holidays are not counted into those, I'm not sure how that's done in other countries?
This is true for all public holidays in the UK, there's a (usually) fixed number of public holidays but the dates are flexible.
They're also included in the minimum 28 days paid time off too, meaning if you're a full time worker and have to work on a bank holiday your employer is legally required to offer an extra day off somewhere else instead, either a fixed date or added to your holiday allowance. Conversely, the "extra" day off you get when a monarch keels over may be subtracted from your holiday allowance for the year. This is also why my employer is allowed to follow English bank holidays despite having next to no presence in England; the number is fixed but the dates are not.
Same for lots of jobs here.
Honestly, Wednesday and Thursday are the worst days for Christmas for those of us who also get Christmas Eve because they're the only days that don't result in 4 days in a row off from work.
If it's on a Friday, we get Thursday through Saturday. If it's on a Saturday, Sunday, or Monday, they give us Friday through Monday, and if it's on a Tuesday, they give us Saturday through Tuesday.
But this year, we're off Saturday and Sunday, work Monday, are off Tuesday and Wednesday, and return to work on Thursday.
It's the same total number of days off, but it's way less useful - especially if travel is involved.
That's pretty clever.
Finally we can put all the controversy around systemd to rest.
Well. I mean, that's pretty cool. I don't think I would have ever guess that was an actual function from systemd but here we are
This kinda functionality is surprisingly apropos to a problem I have a work, I realize. And yet, I have k8s. More and more I am appreciating the niche systemd can play with pets instead of cattle and wished corps weren't jumping to managed k8s and all of that complexity it entails immediately.
You can run systemd (or cron) inside a pod for scheduling and call the kubernetes API from there to run jobs and stuff. Not sure if this helps you, but it can be easy to overlook.
haha, yeah I am well aware I could do something like that. Unfortunately, once you start working for larger companies, your options for solutions to problems typically shrink dramatically and also need to fit into neat little boxes that someone else already drew. And our environment rules are so draconian, that we cannot use k8s to its fullest anyhow. Most of the people I work with have never actually touched k8s, much less any kind of server oriented UNIX. Thanks for the advice though.
I think it depends which side of the debate one is on?
Well, systemd developers made one of the classic blunders a software developer can do: make a program that has to deal with time and dates. Every time I have to deal with timestamps I'm like "oh shit, here we go again".
Anyway, as I understood it the reason this is in systemd is because they wanted to replace cron, and it's fine by me because cron has it's own brain-hurt. (The cron syntax is something that always makes me squint real hard for a while.)
Yeah and they actually added some usability in the form of that utility helping you debug what you're doing. Pretty nice!
I'm sorry but Cron is really easy, of all systems.
Try using systemd with an ssh server that you want to have running on a non standard port. On non systemd it's a 15 second ordeal while on systemd I don't even know where to start, I pushed it out of my memories. It's something something create files here, restart demons there, removing other files, it is WAY WAY over complicated
Well cron is "really easy" as long as your requirements are really easy too.
Run a task at specific hour or minute or weekday or whatever? Easy peasy.
Run a task at complex intervals? What the fuck is this syntax. How do I get it right even. Guess I'll come back next week and see if it ran correctly.
Actually have to look at the calendar to schedule this stuff? Oh lawd here come the hacks, they're so wide, they're coming
Run a task at, say, granularity of seconds? Of course it's not supported, who would ever need that, if you really need that just do an evil janky shellscript hack
This is basically just a way nicer, more flexible cron syntax being dressed up as something ridiculous. There are legitimate reasons for wanting something like this, like running some sort of resource heavy disk optimization the first Friday evening of every month or something.
It is literally happening this year.
24th is Tuesday. 1st of January is Wednesday and as a bonus Jan 6 is also a holiday in my country and that's Monday.
So from dec 22 to jan 6 i can be home by using just 6 days off
The 25th is a Wednesday, not a Tuesday like he was wanting. Tuesday is nice because you get a four-day weekend without using any days off. (Though, usually you'd get the next off if it was a Monday or Sunday or whatever.) I think the best is Friday or Monday because then New Year's gives you a three-day weekend too.
to me it doesn't matter tbh, as long as the 24th is somewhere monday-wednesday, that means days off that week, we get 24,25,26 off.
I bet it's for timers
$ systemd-analyze calendar tomorrow
Failed to parse calendar specification 'tomorrow': Invalid argument
Hint: this expression is a valid timestamp. Use 'systemd-analyze timestamp "tomorrow"' instead?
$ systemd-analyze timestamp tuesday
Failed to parse "tuesday": Invalid argument
Hint: this expression is a valid calendar specification. Use 'systemd-analyze calendar "tuesday"' instead?
ಠ_ಠ
$ for day in Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun; do TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar "$day 02-29"|tail -2; done
Next elapse: Mon 2044-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 19 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Tue 2028-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 3 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Wed 2040-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 15 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Thu 2052-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 27 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Fri 2036-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 11 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Sat 2048-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 23 years 4 months left
Next elapse: Sun 2032-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 7 years 4 months left
(It checks out.)
Surprisingly its calendar specification parser actually allows for 31 days in every month:
$ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-29' && echo OK || echo not OK
Original form: 02-29
Normalized form: *-02-29 00:00:00
Next elapse: Tue 2028-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
From now: 3 years 4 months left
OK
$ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-30' && echo OK || echo not OK
Original form: 02-30
Normalized form: *-02-30 00:00:00
Next elapse: never
OK
$ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-31' && echo OK || echo not OK
Original form: 02-31
Normalized form: *-02-31 00:00:00
Next elapse: never
OK
$ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-32' && echo OK || echo not OK
Failed to parse calendar specification '02-32': Invalid argument
not OK
That's actually really cool!
How is Tuesday Christmas optimal?
Is Friday Christmas just as good?
Not in Germany, where 25th and 26th are bank holidays. So having these close to the prior or following weekend makes for four days off
Students here usually get Mondays off when the next Tuesday is a holiday. As a university sysadmin, I cherish those days because that's when we can get actual work done without having to work around the chaotic classroom reservations or work in ten-minute bursts during breaks. It's also when we can implement changes to the network and update the servers because the office workers don't tend to come in.
The last time that happened, all of us sysadmins did about three months' worth of actual work in a few hours, then used the smaller lecture hall as a cinema for the rest of the day.
Systemd ignored my calendar override for the builtin raid scanner, so every week my server would chug to a halt to scan the entire array.
In true systemd fashion, the documentation could not explain this behavior, so I had to make a full copy override instead of a merge override because reasons.
Did setting OnCalendar to the empty string not work? https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/479745
Already have a program that does that one thing, well. For stuff about dates, try the date command.
As in the case of wanting to know the day of the week of some distant future event's date:
date -d "YYYY-MM-DD" +"%A".
Had that before systemd existed.
... Since "systemd is all you need" do systemd users uninstall date?
@Digit @flamingos it will be replaced by systemd-dated soon
it will be replaced by systemd-dated soon
Not on my machines.
I distrust the tech and the corporation behind the tech being pushed on us as the one true way.
I have no room for the one true way in the Free Software paradigm.
Amen for choice. Grateful for init freedom. ... Grateful for date freedom. ... And whatever else systemd attempts to embrace-extend-extinguish.
... Just realised, I can't tell if that["it will be replaced by systemd-dated soon"]'s satire. Systemd, so bad, one can say horrible things they'll be doing, and listeners will not be able to tell. Systemd, so bad, it's beyond susceptibility to satirical reductio-absurdism, already reduced to the absurd.
Okay this is cool and all, but why would systemd have a calendar?
(also how do i do this)
As others have said on this thread, it's because systemd has fairly advanced timer system that basically requires implementing a calendar.
To do it, the command is in the screenshot systemd-analyze calendar "Tue *-12-25".
Just write your own initialization system in bash. It is more reliable and less bloated.
The problem: incomprehensible init scripts
Too bad about its failure as an init system, though.
If by failure you mean every system under the sun using it
I don't think they are using popularity as a metric. But I think the functionality of it is also very good, so dunno what their gripe is.
What, Emacs is a successful init system https://github.com/a-schaefers/systemE
No, emacs is superior
No, nobody forces you to use emacs at gunpoint.
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Oh fuck. I'll use this from now on. Except for if I won't use it next week. Then I'll forget about it because my memory is a damn sieve.
save