I wish more would appreciate Mastodon

a year ago by Sunshine (she/her) to c/buyeuropean

ZeroGravitas 81 points a year ago

It makes sense that they would go where the users are.

But not having a separate, European instance federated into the BlueSky network, that's the real wtf.

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monogram 39 points a year ago
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ZeroGravitas 1 point a year ago

Surely that's a bit unfair to BlueSky.

From my brief lecture of the underlying protocol, public instances could exist and federate, it's only that they become quite expensive to run if done right.

https://bsky.social/...

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monogram 11 points a year ago
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ZeroGravitas 4 points a year ago

I'm not even going to pretend that BlueSky is more open than any Fediverse tool designed with federation in mind from the ground up. BlueSky is certainly not Mastodon or Lemmy, but it's not Meta AI-pushing crap like WhatsApp either.

Let's do a thought experiment. What if we would get a Wikipedia like NGO with proper funding setting up a EU based BlueSky instance? It won't be the decentralized dream of Fediverse, perhaps, but it could still prove useful. I think Twitter was successful because of its unified, global reaching platform appeal, not in spite of it, and the fact that users flock to BlueSky tells me that appeal is still there. Having a bit more decentralization in that mix just makes it better, but Mastodon shows that decentralization is not sufficient to give a platform a wide appeal.

As context: I'm one of those people that donates annually to Wikipedia, but I have no interest or capacity in managing a decentralized federation server in my basement. Lots of kudos to the people that do!

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Andromxda 1 point a year ago

Just fyi, you need to use two tildes to for strikethrough. With only one tilde you get subscript.

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LordKitsuna 55 points a year ago

Considering Mastodon sucks from a UX perspective i don't blame them or users. Mastodon seems to be a great case of Open Source and decentralized being so fervently followed that people ignore the absolute real problems with it thus ensuring it will never become any type of mainstream.

Actually trying to find interesting content on Mastodon is fuckin awful, bluesky learned what i liked and hands me new awesome artists pretty much daily. Combine that with the whole having to select an instance and remember how to use it and cross instance posting and blah blah blah and your average person is not even going to look at Mastodon

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0x0 31 points a year ago

I have no issues finding content on mastodon, just search and follow hashtags.

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ahornsirup 26 points a year ago

And most people prefer content algorithms. Or maybe a better way of phrasing it would be they're used to and expect content algorithms. Having to actively search for and follow topics is not only yet another hoop users have to jump through (good UX has as few steps as possible to get you where you want, a good chunk of users jumps ship at every step) it also requires that they know which hashtags are being used for the content they want to see beforehand, which might be difficult for you if you relied on content algorithms before.

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LordKitsuna 10 points a year ago

Not only that have you seen user-generated content? There is absolutely no consistent tagging whatsoever. That is like the worst way to find things because everyone will tag things differently assuming they even tag it at all

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monogram 1 point a year ago
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0x0 -2 points a year ago

Weird how a marginal effort immediately puts people off.
WALL-E and Idiocracy vibes...

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omarthemediocre 5 points a year ago

This is how society has always been I will continue to be. That is why your self-custody bitcoin wallet will never replace debit card and your non nerdy friends will never use Linux. The barrier of entry is the difference between mainstream and fringe.

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supersquirrel 13 points a year ago

Considering Mastodon sucks from a UX perspective i don't blame them or users.

This narrative is tired, particularly with Mastodon.

All open source projects that aren't violently ruthless about pursuing profits are going to lag behind tech companies approaching social media from the perspective of a cigarette company that also is selling the capacity to rich interests to distort, artificially elevate or silence perspectives.

Should we all push for a more accessible fediverse? Of course, but what is your perspective bringing to the table that does anything other than restate the incredible material inequality in resources between the two things you are comparing?

On the contrary I think the UX of mastodon is impressively boring and functional compared to the ever enshittifying slop and paper thin future promises served up by multimillion and multibillion dollar social media companies.

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LordKitsuna 5 points a year ago

And that is fine if you feel that way, but it's not going to match the majority of people and it's going to prevent the platform from ever achieving any type of mainstream status.

I personally do not agree with you, I find the ux to actually hinder usability. I do use Mastodon, because otherwise forming an opinion on it would be stupid. I regularly still struggle to find content I'm interested in on Mastodon, searching all the different instances is a pain. Hashtags are not adequate most content is never even tagged, even the stuff that is tagged might not be tagged in a way I expect because everybody tags things differently. This makes searching for Content I'm interested in very difficult.

I have to actually invest a pretty sizable amount of my time on Mastodon just trying to find something on Mastodon I want to interact with. Compare that with something like blue sky I open the app and the algorithm has already figured out what I like just from me liking stuff as it appears that I'm pretty much instantly greeted with a wall of nothing but stuff that I'm interested in in some capacity.

It's coming from a corporation that just wants to make money but the end result is that they gave me something that I was actually interested in immediately without me having to jump through a bunch of Hoops and that's just objectively a better user experience

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Lemminary 2 points a year ago

I agree that the UI is largely functional first (with no bugs since I started using it, which is hella cool), but it's a bit unfriendly to new users. For example, it breaks from convention when replying to a comment, and the themes need a better separation between posts, and it needs to expand on existing features. All it needs is a little TLC, but it's been almost the same for over a year. I've only noticed subtle changes on Lemmy UI and none on Mastodon that have any impact.

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supersquirrel 4 points a year ago

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to overly defend the Mastodon project in particular, I use Mastodon, I have for years but yeah there are lots of issues with it.

....but the difference between Bluesky and the Fediverse is that RIGHT NOW, ALREADY you can use a different microblogging software written and maintained by different people with different ideologies and different objectives that will still interact and interconnect with Mastodon pretty well most of the time. Not only that, but Mastodon (and I assume other microblogging fediverse softwares) already have multiple different themes and the customization options are simply up to how many people are willing to get their hands dirty... and the sense of customization isn't a marketing bullet point it is a deeply held ideology that is expressed in the very architecture of the fediverse, Bluesky on the other hand can only gesture in the vague direction of these things without rocking the boat of venture capital investors too hard. They have not still as far as I am aware ruled out using ads, according to the CEO of Bluesky (which Mastodon doesn't have a CEO notably).

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Niquarl 1 point a year ago

Pixelfed looks more or less like Instagram to my eyes and there are alternatives frontends for mastodon. As well as a lot of people uses smartphone apps which mastodon has a few.

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TheMightyCat 39 points a year ago path: 0 16913857, hotness: undefined, score: 39, children: 1
pedroapero 8 points a year ago path: 0 16913857 16928215, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
njordomir 27 points a year ago

Junkie Elmo is the correct character to use here. Why do we crave enshitification so badly?

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Tehdastehdas 4 points a year ago

Because it's good now, bad later. Junkies crave good now.

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Lemminary 0 points a year ago

Because Money ๐Ÿค‘ And Profits ๐Ÿ˜Ž And a new Yacht! ๐Ÿ–

What's that, you can't afford groceries? Fuck off, poor.

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Lemminary 21 points a year ago

I still don't understand what inherent appeal Bluesky has. Is it the familiarity? Maybe the delusional belief that corporations are the designated social media providers?

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GTG3000 14 points a year ago

You don't need to choose a server with bsky, that's it. It's just one big blob of everyone where no one really cares what kind of content or how often you post.

With Mastodon, you need to pick a server, and then there's funny things like "oh, you haven't posted for a while, we're blocking your account" or concerns that the server you chose may decide you're not fitting. That and mastodon.social wasn't available to register for a while as I recall.

Add to that the fact that your instance may not be federated with whoever you're trying to share stuff to. Meanwhile with bsky it's just "do you have bsky yes or no".

People care about ease of use way more than whether it's corporate or not.

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ICastFist 1 point a year ago

โ€œoh, you havenโ€™t posted for a while, weโ€™re blocking your accountโ€

Never heard of any mastodon instance doing that

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GTG3000 2 points a year ago

I've had my accounts blocked like that a few times when Mastodon was relatively new. I guess it's an instance-specific thing?

I don't remember the exact instance any more, since I never went back there, but mastodon.social doesn't seem to do that.

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ICastFist 2 points a year ago

It's instance specific. I've had a semi abandoned account in one of the NSFW instances since 2022, posted one or two comments, forgot it, remembered about it in 2024 and still logged in.

I know some instances will cull accounts that are 6+ months old with 0 posts, but that's a different thing, too.

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exchange12rocks 11 points a year ago

It's easy to use

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vga 4 points a year ago

It has Democrat toxicity instead of Republican toxicity. And no Elon Musk. Which is like cleaner and often less stupid, sure, but for a european not very relevant.

And something something protocol cool cool much. Compared to Mastodon, it has similar algorithmic feeds that Twitter has, which depending on your viewpoint makes it just as bad as Twitter or just as useful as Twitter. This + lack of masses leads to nothing ever happening in Mastodon, or at least that it seems like it. In contrast, those algorithmic toxic wastelands like Twitter, Bluesky and Facebook especially always have something "new" happening in them. Even if it's just AI slop, the dumb part of your brain gets happy about it.

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TeddE 4 points a year ago

It's simple kinda - one has a marketing team. Lots of wonders the power of spin and hype can do for you.

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Vimana 3 points a year ago

Disclaimer- I'm pretty new here. Just closed my account on blueshit again. Its getting worse and worse in my opinion. Massive echo chamber of US phsycosis- Mirror of X. Havent learned a single thing, entirely humourless. The only reason I keep trying again is for 2 accounts and one has disappeared. Anonymous is the remaining one. Closed mastadon too as i found myself looking at Lemmie first and spending longer lurking and clicking thru to links way, way more. It's about content really I suppose. Little effort equals little reward but thats people for you I guess. I'm not looking for agreement but knowledge, info, perspective, open-mindedness & entertainment beyond US fluff. I have hope for Lemmie but can see much room for improvement, growth or development

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pinkfluffywolfie 3 points a year ago

I closed my account soon after I made one, for parallel reasons that you described here. I liked it for a short while because I am apart of the internet art community but it became an echo chamber too quickly. Lot's of AI dumping and and memification, cringey "We are warriors/witches they couldn't burn/etc", no fruitful discussion or organizing for the US peeps, shaming those who aren't doing exactly what someone else is doing, inner fighting, you name it. I think I just got on the wrong feed but it was pretty miserable and I ended up going back to forums for niche topics and then use lemmy and mastodon for general stuff. I'm waiting for the bubble to burst at some point.

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Vimana 2 points a year ago

I kept on breaking it too because of the limited number of good accounts to follow. I suppose that was my method- Not following larger accounts because of ppl reposting their stuff all the time so there's really no need. No place for the interesting smaller accounts tbh. Probably something something algorithm. I did like Mastodon much more than Bluesky in terms of content and variety. US still doesn't get there's a whole world out there. Thanks for replying :)

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szewek 3 points a year ago

@Vimana @pinkfluffywolfie I think the appeal is other people who use Bluesky. High-profile Europeans want to interact with their peers from US. These are more likely to be on Bluesky than or Mastodon. (I don't say there are no US people here, just fewer of the high-profile ones).

Plus, an obvious one for an institution: More European citizens use Bluesky than Mastodon at this point.

Having said that, I agree: FFS, the institutions should lead. At least post across platforms, including fedi.

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pinkfluffywolfie 3 points a year ago

Its unfortunate; I speak as a US-ian and the way we make echo chambers rather quickly is not only surprising but annoying. Like I have to make a solid effort to go beyond my enclosure and find more global media and people from all over, because if I'm not careful I'll accidentally end up in one of the US bubbles and practically have start over to refresh it. One of the best parts of some of the communities I'm in is that they tend to be global, so I at least have that edge but I know for some it can be difficult for users to reach beyond what they know. They just tend to assume everyone they talk to is american.

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IronKrill 3 points a year ago

You don't have to pick a server. You don't have to pick a software (i.e Mastodon, Misskey, Chrrypick, etc). All likes and comments are actually shown when you view posts. When you search for something it actually comes up with results. It offers algorithms which believe it or not is a feature people want.

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ICastFist 18 points a year ago

I don't understand why govt institutions don't just band together and use one of their many already running servers and add a mastodon or similar instance, so they won't ever need to worry about their shit being taken offline

Like, get all federal agencies and currently serving politicians to post on the govt-run mastodon, instead of bsky or xitter.

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blackbeard 5 points a year ago

Me like other people, had the idea of ECI (European citizen initiative) to ask EU level entities to start using the Fediverse. The process is quite slow as I do not have much time but, if you are European and can help, have a look here:

An European Citizens' Initiative for the adoption of the Fediverse in the European Union's institutions:

https://europe.pub/post/61266

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DemBoSain 16 points a year ago

I'll say it again and again and again:

The fediverse is hamstrung by the need to choose a specific server.

I remember trying to help people join Mastodon when Musk bought Twitter. Every question I heard was about picking a server.

What's a server?

Why do I have to pick a server?

How do I pick a server?

Then there were the more thoughtful questions.

What happens if the server I chose goes down?

What happens if someone chooses the same user name as mine on a different server?

Mastodon, Lemmy, etc. won't get mainstream traction until someone solves this simple hurdle.

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tiredofsametab 7 points a year ago

The first time someone told me about mbin/lemmy, I had that exact issue and just gave up on it for a few months. This is especially true as there doesn't really exist any account migration (nor, probably, can there be one without any kind of centralized auth server or the like). I finally did move over, but two of the instances I used just shut down, one with basically no warning.

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Blue_Morpho 7 points a year ago

And they don't even say server but "instance". Like need special words to keep the unwashed out.

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madsenandersc 2 points a year ago

@DemBoSain @Sunshine
I think that a part of the "server hurdle" can be solved - at least for brand new users - by initiatives like the Vivaldi Social network.

New to Vivaldi? Nice - welcome. Would you like to join Mastodon? Register here. Boom.

If people have heard about Mastodon and are curious about it, this is the easy way to get them hooked. No talk about servers or instances - you register and you are off to the races.

How this all plays into the decentralized nature of the Fediverse and who is going to fund those servers is a different question - but it is definitely the easiest gateway for new users (as you can see, I was one of them).

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CosmicTurtle0 2 points a year ago

I keep hammering home: instance doesn't matter when you start. It's more important for you to join. Once you join, you'll figure out the instance and then you can switch.

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XM34 11 points a year ago

Can you though? You'll lose all your data, your posts, your liles, your comments, your curated list of communities and usually also your Username. People don't like giving up their entire existence just because they made a wrong choice in the beginning.

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Codeschubse -4 points a year ago

@DemBoSain @Sunshine you're like my dog on walkies.

What's a tree?
Why do I have to pick a tree?
How do I pick a tree?
What happens if the tree I pick suddenly moves?
What happens if there's already another dog at that tree?

Jokes aside โ€” as long as people desperately try to see problems where there in fact aren't any, people will have problems.

And no, explaining the fediverse to newcomers isn't a problem. Never was, unless people wanted it to be, so they have an excuse to join bluesky.

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DemBoSain 3 points a year ago

First of all, please read my comment again. These aren't my comments, these are questions from other people. I have a Mastodon account. I've had one since Musk bought Twitter, and the one I have now isn't my original. Because I moved servers and didn't have a problem doing that.

Second, grow up. You're ridiculing people who have used Facebook since it opened up to non-students. And some of these are valid concerns. For some people they're deal-breakers, and they should be addressed of we want the fediverse to grow.

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Codeschubse -1 points a year ago

@DemBoSain so the restaurant industry is hamstrung by people having to choose a certain restaurant if they what to go out eating. Do you sometimes read that stuff that you're posting?

People managed to choose phone or computer to buy. Then they managed to choose an internet provider. Both are way, waaaay more difficult and complicated than choosing a fediverse server.

People would manage to choose one as well. They decide to choose evil companies like bluesky voluntarily. Very much so.

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DemBoSain 1 point a year ago

Holy shit. These are REAL WORLD EXAMPLES. goodbye.

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doingthestuff 14 points a year ago

Some people don't want to hear this but Mastodon will never be mainstream without major changes. Even Mastodon users are all on other platforms. I'm not planning to go to Bluesky tho.

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turtle 5 points a year ago

I'm not on any other platform except Lemmy and Mastodon. Well, I'm on Facebook but only to find events nearby and have been considering deleting it for a while.

Mastodon and Lemmy are better off not being "mainstream". There's a huge amount of crap that comes with being that.

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blackbeard 2 points a year ago

I use only Mastodon, even though I got accounts on other platforms too. I'm not super sure what the issue is with Mastodon, but, as I'm moving away from Youtube, the thing I'm missing is, paradoxically, the algorithm suggesting different creators or videos. To clarify: I hate that, I think is sick and controlling, but, as I have used that social for so many years, I think I got quite addicted. Can be the same for other users?

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doingthestuff 2 points a year ago

I get it. But also I have about ten content creators on YouTube that I love that aren't hosted anywhere else other than scalping reposters. I try to go there and only watch the handful of new videos from those channels but occasionally I get sucked in by the algorithm with other videos I end up liking pretty well.

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jabjoe 1 point a year ago

It also has the network problem now. BlueSky quickly got the numbers because it was easy at the right time. It was perfect for the Xodus. Mastodon missed that window. It can get easier and sexier, but it missed that window and will need another.

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Niquarl 1 point a year ago

Mastodon has been going for almost ten years, it's proven reliabile but people preferred the more clearly twitter clone blusky by a big American company.

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jjpamsterdam 13 points a year ago

In my opinion it's not bad to have a diverse landscape with different options. I believe the best course of action for many institutions should be to use both of these options simultaneously. Any organisation with a social media, communications or other type of public relations team should be able to set up a crossposter easily enough.

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wewbull 5 points a year ago

In my opinion it's not bad to have a diverse landscape with different options.

Not with Comms tools. We had this in the 90s with email and the various walled gardens like CompuServe and AOL. You couldn't talk to your friends if they were on another system.

Mastodon is SMTP for micro logging. Different servers is fine, but they all need to talk to each other.

Lemmy is NNTP. It's just the same thing reinvented 30 years later and lower latency.

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schubidubiduba 3 points a year ago

But they don't. Organisations seem to be unable or unwilling to have a presence on multiple sites, or at most they seem to choose either X+BlueSky or X+Mastodon

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Samskara 5 points a year ago

Every extra platform costs time to take care of.

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collectifission 13 points a year ago path: 0 16924623, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
taladar 12 points a year ago

I wish fewer people would "appreciate" micro-blogging and short videos in general. It has too much of an influence on public discourse and the short posts aren't really suitable for the complex issues we face today.

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 10 points a year ago

I use Mastodon the exact same way I used Facebook and it works out great.

It's just posts and updates on my life and projects, and it just works. Sometimes I get feedback, sometimes not.

Photo of a meal, my cat, projects, car repairs, shit I see around. It works fine.

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ChaoticNeutralCzech 10 points a year ago

Most are still on X here :(

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Stzyxh 10 points a year ago

X lost 11 million users in the EU

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ChaoticNeutralCzech 2 points a year ago

Not really happening in the Czech Republic

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tiredofsametab 3 points a year ago

Japan still stubbornly holds on as well. Insta eventually started to take over some things from Twitter, but tons of stuff is still there. I created a BlueSky for the small business I'm starting here in Japan and my wife asked me what that was and why no twitter.

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StarkRG 8 points a year ago

@Sunshine Honestly, though, many of them should just be running their own instance.

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dylanmorgan 7 points a year ago

Particularly considering Facebook (I will die before I call it meta) blocked major Islamic Indians on their platforms as well as the biggest Islamic news outlet in India. Standing up your own instance on mastodon/lemmy/friendica/Pixelfed is the best way to avoid getting shut down by billionaires who kowtow to fascists.

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vga 1 point a year ago

Is that due to the war/skirmish/thing with Pakistan?

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dylanmorgan 1 point a year ago

I think itโ€™s due to the Modi governmentโ€™s naked Hindu nationalism.

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HubertManne 6 points a year ago

I don't get why more companies. Especially ones who might be concerned with control of their content like I dunno. lets say news agencies and the like. I don't get that they would not want to run their own instances and federate.

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Sunshine 4 points a year ago

Especially when the Canucks account was hijacked by Elon Musk placing his crypto scam video as the top post on their page.

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Yerbouti 4 points a year ago

If something can be bought, it cant ever be fully trusted.

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omarthemediocre 3 points a year ago

Just a question here as I dont know Mastodont that well. But how do you do vertified accounts? Is there some federally elected institution that will vertify user who requires that sort of vertification? Because to me there is huge amount of fake accounts and copycats and it is as hard to check if they are real as it is to check the spam mail that came from a scamy address. I guess institutions don't want to be on a platform full of copycats and constantly proving they are the official account. Among other things...

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Andromxda 6 points a year ago path: 0 16929934 16930093, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
oakward 5 points a year ago

If institutions are hosting their instance themselves, then they are the verifying authority. It should not be that hard to have a .gov domain for a public institution.

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Korhaka 3 points a year ago

Tbh I have little interest in either of them

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Tanzbaer 2 points a year ago

@Sunshine โ€žDas einzig Vernรผnftige wird immer erst dann in Erwรคgung gezogen wenn alle anderen Mรถglichkeiten ausgeschรถpft wurden!" Es wรคre ja auch zu Blรถde wenn man das Richtige macht solange man noch die Wahl hat zu Spinnen, sich Illusionen hinzugeben, Zeit zu verlieren und Geld zu verbrennen.

path: 0 16924658, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
buyeuropean
buyeuropean

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Overview:

The community to discuss buying European goods and services.


Matrix Chat of this community


Rules:
  • Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. No direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments.

  • Do not use this community to promote Nationalism/Euronationalism. This community is for discussing European products/services and news related to that. For other topics the following might be of interest:

  • Include a disclaimer at the bottom of the post if you're affiliated with the recommendation.

  • No russian suggestions.

Feddit.uk's instance rules apply:

  • No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia or xenophobia.
  • No incitement of violence or promotion of violent ideologies.
  • No harassment, dogpiling or doxxing of other users.
  • Do not share intentionally false or misleading information.
  • Do not spam or abuse network features.
  • Alt accounts are permitted, but all accounts must list each other in their bios.
  • No generative AI content.
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