That post seems to be missing.

just_another_person 167 points a year ago

You should be using Signal anyway.

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doodledup 38 points a year ago

I think Telegram is more of a social media than a messenger.

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homesweethomeMrL 13 points a year ago

What, like Instagram kind of thing?

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drmoose 22 points a year ago

Not really. It just group chats and some are used as news feeds.

Its one of those terrible UX where people force a tool to do something it's not supposed to like Discord for forums etc.

Its basically used for piracy and drug markets for tech illiterate but somehow caught on.

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rottingleaf 0 points a year ago

One can say terrible, one can say ingenious.

A news feed with comments and a group chat are projections of the same object, thus you have all the events in one "community" in one place, seeing them always (more or less, because going to comments of a post you only see that post's children and their children and so on).

Personally I think it's much more convenient than Discord.

And the public opinion seems to be in TG's favor for usability (except it exhausts me to see that many groups and checking them, so authors' FB clone background definitely shows).

I think the market has decided that this UX is good. But technically TG is, 1) proprietary in fact despite open client source, 2) insecure, 3) starts getting overloaded with features by now.

I'd want a federated FOSS alternative. I'm actually thinking how one can do that (especially the part about sharing files, the TG way means they'll have to be stored for long somewhere ; maybe one can have each user issue a fixed amount of tokens on registration, those tokens be passed by uploading user to the one providing storage, and somehow thus using local storage of users as a currency, for file storage only ; the thought is inspired by Redis and probably sucks, especially since in Redis tokens are for hash partitions ; it's also inspired by BitTorrent reputation and tracker ratings, where you have to upload something to be able to download yadda-yadda) without making running a server a very expensive task. Probably should read something on how XMPP and IRC and other server-server connections work, but lazy.

Interesting even, can a FOSS federated TG alternative be just another Lemmy frontend. Again, the attached files part should be solved in some smarter way than storing them all on servers, people upload huge things to TG. A builtin bittorrent client is not a solution, cause one person sharing a file and going offline means that nobody can download it. So the previous idea with tokens may be not too bad.

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ladfrombrad 7 points a year ago

Nah, more like a better WhatsApp but with haters even worse than the WhatsApp haters.

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rdri 5 points a year ago

Pretty much yes. It has channels so there are news channels, personal channels etc. At some point when I discovered Twitter for myself I hated it so much for not being able to simply read subscribed accounts just like telegram does it. It's too convenient as a feeds app.

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Lemminary 4 points a year ago

Like a light version of Discord

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REDACTED 1 point a year ago

So, a messenger?

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AizawaC47 1 point a year ago

No it would be best to compare it to discord, except the UI is cleaner and much better.

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BreakerSwitch 4 points a year ago

In my experience, telegram is one of those "if someone asks you to go on this app, they're trying to scam you" platforms. Flatly avoid.

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doodledup 1 point a year ago

Why did you delete your previous comment that has the exact same content?

In my experience, telegram is one of those "if someone asks you to go on this app, they're trying to scam you" platforms. Flatly avoid.

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BreakerSwitch 2 points a year ago

Because I'm stupid (I convinced myself I wanted to say something slightly different, deleted the original, then while writing it differently decided it was better off as is. Yes I know I can edit)

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BreakerSwitch 1 point a year ago

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Maxxie 3 points a year ago

I cant schedule an appointment at the vet with signal.

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just_another_person 1 point a year ago

Well if you tell them you are using Signal and they adopt it, you sure can.

What is your imaginary boundary here where Telegram makes this easier somehow?

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Maxxie 9 points a year ago

The problem is not that I'm not using signal (I am), its that I also have to use telegram and\or whatsapp if I want to contact anyone without sending them an sms, or a pigeon.

So all this bloat still affects me, whether I "just use signal" or not.

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just_another_person -3 points a year ago

I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, so maybe there is a societal difference here, but last I checked, if you're running a business, it's not only run on chat apps. There are other venues to contact businesses to schedule things...

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MangoPenguin 0 points a year ago

I doubt Signal is supported by their scheduling/desk software though, Telegram has pretty wide support.

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noxypaws 0 points a year ago

there's this old thing called the telephone

or if they're insufficiently modern (in a good way) a website

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Maxxie 3 points a year ago

"Hello sorry for calling you, can you repair a part of an electric oven? It looks like a thingy with a couple springs. No I can't send you a photo on whatsapp, do you mind quickly installing signal? No? What about email? You're going to respond in 3-5 business day? Yeah sure I can survive that long on raw potatoes"

If you can afford existing without big tech, I'm honestly jealous. I'm willing to go quite far for my principles (like I have a phone with graphene) but at a certain point life just gets too difficult. I'm barely above water on my adult-ing as it is 🤷‍♀️

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noxypaws 1 point a year ago

I genuinely don't understand what's wrong with email in this situation? Stay on the phone with them until the email arrives?

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BlackEco 100 points a year ago

Telegram are being paid by xAI to use their product? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

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nucleative 63 points a year ago

I'm guessing the money flows in this direction because telegram actually has users.

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zecg 13 points a year ago

The users must ask themselves if they're the product, fucking Musk is paying for access to them.

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And009 8 points a year ago

You're the product either way, free or not. Those days are gone.

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zecg 2 points a year ago

I don't use any of it, neither Telegram or LLMs

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jnod4 26 points a year ago

Having xAI accessing a billion of users conversations? They are going to have the most "educated" LLM. Also isn't xAI getting subsidies from the government? Literalły workers of America are paying to spy, again

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LH0ezVT 9 points a year ago

The funny thing is, half of Telegram is drugs, conspiracy nuts and really weird humour. The ai is going to be great, I can already see it.

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CosmoNova 8 points a year ago

AI companies paying or straight up buying other businesses to spread their disease has become their go-to strategy as of late.

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fmstrat 1 point a year ago

integrate into it's apps

They're getting paid for training data.

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barnaclebutt 1 point a year ago

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acidbattery 86 points a year ago

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tfm 14 points a year ago

Long overdue :)

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ThePantser 5 points a year ago

Agreed, but which one has easy to use bots and integration into the *arr apps? I used telegram to send notifications about new movies and episodes.

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krimson 11 points a year ago

Me too. Switched to pushover. Arrrrrr apps support it just fine. And it's free.

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rdri 1 point a year ago

I really need some free time in my life to try those arrs with unraid, and telegram bots too...

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sparky 66 points a year ago

So you’re telling me that Grok is so bad that they have to pay developers to integrate it? How backwards. People are willing to pay for Grok’s competitors.

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mcv 12 points a year ago

Or is xAI paying for access to Telegram conversations to train Grok?

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UnculturedSwine 9 points a year ago

This is the reason. Telegram has data and users that can be fed to the AI and they know it. Grok is hungry.

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sparky 6 points a year ago

Well it’s gonna learn to post crypto spam ads and swastikas then. Which come to think of it.. might be the point

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Azal 5 points a year ago

What's funny is the flipside to it... Telgram is absolutely fucking full of furries so grok's gonna learn a shitload of gay leftist shit too.

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lipilee 4 points a year ago

to be fair, pretty much all ai is that bad these days :)

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blady_blah 3 points a year ago

This is the real take away from all this. xAI is trying hard to keep up with the big-boys and has to pay a shit ton of money just to be in the game. xAI's revenue will be in the deep red for a long time at this rate.

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match 66 points a year ago

good news! signal has sticker packs

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Fitik 19 points a year ago

If only any of my friends would have it.. I have a lot of contacts on telegram, and on signal there's like 1. Even my furry friends are not on there

There are some active chats on matrix, but I don't know why on signal

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dubyakay 7 points a year ago

Maybe if you tell them that an LLM is being trained on all their "private" conversations now, they will change their mind?

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100_kg_90_de_belin 11 points a year ago

Them: "I've got nothing to hide" (slowed down and reverbed)

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tahoe 14 points a year ago

I tried to switch to Signal but it feels so damn barren compared to Telegram :(

I want to love it but they make it hard

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rottingleaf 5 points a year ago

Signal by design can't and won't support big group chats.

Frankly Telegram is socially a reiteration of IRC plus blogs. There are groups where people chat, there are channels where posts have comments. Posts and their comments are visible in the associated group, so all the life of a community is in one place. That's important for small groups and mobile devices.

Because these two things in the 00s web accounted for most of life.

A TG alternative with ActivityPub identities and proper secret chats would be nice, of course.

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frozen 2 points a year ago

The only problem with Telegram = IRC angle is that I can't scroll up in IRC to see what I missed throughout the day. I legitimately would love to switch my friend group to a self-hosted IRC server, but chat history is important.

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cardfire 0 points a year ago

I don't know about any of this. I pretty much only have looked into it for porn and bootlegs of academic papers. Feels like I'm missing out on all the 'fun' of ai chats and cult groups.

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rottingleaf 2 points a year ago

ai chats

I said nothing about such.

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rdri 0 points a year ago

My biggest gripe with it is about electron. I refuse to keep it running on my PC. Even the damned Whatsapp converted to something better.

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tahoe 1 point a year ago

Oof, that sucks if that’s the case

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kazerniel 3 points a year ago

signal has sticker packs

wait it does? maybe then I can convince my contacts to move there xD Seriously stickers are the main selling point of Telegram for us

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 63 points a year ago

Telegram ASTOUNDS me.

Like, there's been several instances of them outwardly admitting that their security sucks, not to use it for encrypted chats, that they just give logs away to world governments, and yet thousands of crypto bros and bots use telegram to function, EVEN ZLIBRARY, who could just as easily set up and use Matrix, has a Telegram bot for downloading books.

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josefo 5 points a year ago

Their bot api is very easy to use. I have made some telegram bots because is so easy. Tried to do the same with WhatsApp and didn't even get permission and api access.

Average Joes use mainstream things, if you want to do something accessible, these bots are the way. Ideally, you want them to download or use an app that does some hand holding. I'm all up to the fediverse but let's be honest, it has some non intuitive things for today's user, most were trained to understand and like centralized services. They vaguely understand and use emails today, and mostly for account creation of other platforms.

Disclaimer: haven't tried to make signal bots, they are a thing?

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NotKyloRen 2 points a year ago

No disrespect towards you or your response (which is a good response, btw) -- but the Bot API being good means absolutely nothing when the core app is garbage. By "garbage", I mean that it ignores basic best-practices (like not E2EE everything, which they claimed wasn't possible with device sync -- but look at FB Messenger, Signal, Whatsapp, etc all able to do it).

Nobody is allowed to ask me why that matters. Because the answer is $300 Million.

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josefo 6 points a year ago

It matters because when you try to build something new, you choose the path of least resistance. I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining it. Also, guess who doesn't gives shit about E2EE? Average Joes.

I agree with you, but still your idea of garbage is not shared by the general population. Remember that telegram got traction because it falsely claimed that it was secure, or at least more secure than WhatsApp.

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YesButActuallyMaybe 52 points a year ago

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NotKyloRen 23 points a year ago

I don't know why people stuck with it. I've used it; I get that a lot of the initial success/hype was:

It's not owned by Meta
"Putin hates Durov!"
"Unlimited" storage (lots of people using it as free cloud storage, which is dumb if you value your files)

But your messages are not E2EE by default (only "Secret Chats", which aren't synced across devices)...Telegram (the organization) could always read your messages. I said this so many times and got called everything under the sun.

"Why would they care about my messages though?" ------> Because $300 Million.

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Eyedust 7 points a year ago

This. The second Premium landed I was out, and it was slipping long before that.

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raspberriesareyummy 9 points a year ago

Whelp. Same thought :(

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REDACTED 47 points a year ago

So, a software that is owned by US politician is working together with software that has links to Russian government?

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Eyedust 25 points a year ago

Federal government threatened Telegram and demanded a backdoor a while back, iirc.

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KumaSudosa 16 points a year ago

You misunderstand. Elon is retired from US politics now, obviously, and will return to being a force of good!

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andros_rex 1 point a year ago

Hasn’t Elon said that he’s “retiring” like every month 47 has been in office?

Just bullshit to try to appease Tesla investors.

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NikkiDimes 2 points a year ago

Are we calling him a politician now? 😭

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magnetosphere 42 points a year ago

There doesn’t seem to be any such thing as “good” AI, but there’s definitely a “worst” one, and Telegram chose it. Nice job, assholes.

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realitista 18 points a year ago

Well the other ones you have to pay for. This one pays you!

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cupcakezealot 36 points a year ago

great advertisement for signal

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whereisk 28 points a year ago

Wondering how long has this been cooking? A year or so ago musk started attacking signal for no discernible reason and recommending telegram instead.

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apfelwoiSchoppen 26 points a year ago

Two insane billionaire eugenicists … working together? No way. Birds of like feather stick together.

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ristoril_zip 23 points a year ago

now telegram is going to insert random information about South African White genocide to every conversation. or it will be in every recommended reply at least.

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A_norny_mousse 21 points a year ago

If anybody still believed in Telegram's trustworthiness, it should now be dispelled.

(Only kidding, there's plenty of people who still "believe" in both Durov and Musk)

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homesweethomeMrL 2 points a year ago

Sad but true

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rdri 2 points a year ago

I'll think about if they also somehow prohibit 3rd party clients from removing that AI garbage.

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yumyumsmuncher 21 points a year ago

Gross. So glad I deleted it and moved to Signal

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MITM0 12 points a year ago

Matrix (Element etc...)
XMPP
Session
SimpleX
Signal
GNU-Jami
Briar

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ebolapie 4 points a year ago

Briar would be great if I knew anyone who was willing to use briar

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KumaSudosa 7 points a year ago

Element here all the way!

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elucubra 4 points a year ago

How is Signal financed?

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SpicyColdFartChamber 6 points a year ago

Donations I believe.

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TheGrandNagus 6 points a year ago

Donations and grants.

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 3 points a year ago

XMPP for me. Signal is nice, but you'll never know how nice and their software is very restrictive imo.

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ICastFist 3 points a year ago

How is it for file sharing? It's my main use of telegram

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kazerniel 20 points a year ago

ew wtf, Telegram has been one of the less shittified ones :c

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Blemgo 26 points a year ago

Honestly, Telegramm always seemed to me a bit shifty since I learnt E2EE for chats was opt-in.

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NotKyloRen 8 points a year ago

Been saying this for years. Then they introduced Premium to "help fund things" (but they're also taking $300 MILLION from Elon, and giving them access to user data.

So will basic features stop being paywalled now? Or are people going to have to keep paying to stop random people from messaging them?

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noxypaws 6 points a year ago

not even available on desktop clients, or for group chats

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ABetterTomorrow 19 points a year ago

Big yikes

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talos_the_true_god 18 points a year ago

Nail no.1 in the coffin for me was when this Durov guy sent an unsolicited telegram-wide message on election day in my country, claiming French interference in our elections.

This is nail no.2 in the coffin.

Guess I’ll get off my lazy arse and delete my telegram account now

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dylanmorgan 17 points a year ago

I’m so glad I don’t use telegram.

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KingThrillgore 17 points a year ago

First thing i'm doing is opening a channel to run up Grok API calls maliciously

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mwguy 14 points a year ago

What is the fediverse chat equivalent?

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Eyedust 12 points a year ago

If you want something more like the fediverse itself, then Matrix. If you want something closer to Telegram out of the box without setup, then Signal or SimpleX.

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lepinkainen 5 points a year ago

Signal doesn’t have bot support, so it’s hardly a Telegram equivalent sadly

Matrix works though, but it has the fediverse problem of “which instance do I pick?”

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Eyedust 4 points a year ago

Yeah, that's true. I still use Signal as the main app to keep in contact with friends and family, though. It's not like we ever discuss anything important, I just don't like having my privacy openly invaded by apps like TG. Its affronting and insulting.

I can't think of any other alternative to Matrix that has bot support, though. I guess just be careful of which instance, because I've read that there's a lot of shady stuff that goes down in Matrix groups sometimes.

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frostysauce 2 points a year ago

What do people use bots for in Telegram?

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lepinkainen 3 points a year ago

Anything really, it’s really simple to whip up a bot for anything. On par with Discord, maybe even a bit easier.

We have a family channel with bots that do calendar notifications and connect to home automation systems.

But I think you can do full on stores with payments using Telegram bots, never tried nor been in channels that do it.

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 8 points a year ago

XMPP

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Rodancoci 4 points a year ago

I use matrix synapse. You can self host or join an existing server.

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0xD 5 points a year ago

My Matrix server is conduwuit which was discontinued some time ago and your comment made me look at the GitHub page of its successor again, tuwunel...

It's finally out! Ohh I'm so happy, updating today 😁

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LordWiggle 14 points a year ago

How many people pressed the play button in the image. I know I did.

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NikkiDimes 1 point a year ago

Im pretty brain rotted, but I guess I'm not quiiiite there yet...

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homesweethomeMrL 14 points a year ago

"Eat moar AI! EAT IT!! EAT the AI you peasants!"

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maki 14 points a year ago

Can this be a joke pleaseeeee ?

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rottingleaf 2 points a year ago

I've seen posts in TG that yes, this is a joke and there's been no such deal.

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kazerniel 2 points a year ago

Reuters reports it's true: Telegram, Musk-owned xAI partner to distribute Grok to messaging app's users | Reuters

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unexposedhazard 14 points a year ago

Im glad the EU started early with sanctioning Telegram, it will make things easier now. This is just a blatant attempt at enforcing Russian political influence.

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Entertain529 12 points a year ago

I wonder if grok will read even secret chats on telegram

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Eyedust 8 points a year ago

Your secret chats are already being read. Hell, secret chats are probably the first to be read.

A secret chat is only for local privacy, meaning if someone got access to your device they can't find them, nor will you get notifications (in case your partner is watching your screen).

Back when we just had SMS and MMS, they had secret chats, too. They were blatantly marketed as tools to cheat on your partner. GO SMS was one of the first to use them. Its not so blatant anymore, but its still the primary use for "secret" chats.

I remember reading an article that someone figured out everyone's GO SMS images (even secret ones) were uploaded online without any security whatsoever. You could put in the url and some random numbers and get any pictures and voice clips ever sent. And they never fixed it even after it was leaked.

So yeah, not so secret. You want secure.

Edit: Context: Sorry, my ADHD gets the better of me. I mean that there's more likely than not a government backdoor. Other users are unlikely reading your messages, but your messages are more than likely being scanned. Just be careful if you use TG.

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Entertain529 6 points a year ago

I thought secret chats were E2EE and weren't stored on servers. That doesn't necessarily mean Grok can't read them if it's not server side, but that's what I'm curious about.

https://privacyinternational.org/...

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Eyedust 3 points a year ago

Ah no, I mean the government backdoor. Last we knew, Telegram was threatened, then it suddenly quiet and Premium launches. Fishy. So potentially the federal government has access.

Sorry, I'm bad at providing context. When it comes to another user accessing your messages, you should be right. However, when it comes to the US and Russian governments, its probably getting read already. And we all know what ties and connections Elon has there. So Grok can probably read them.

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Entertain529 3 points a year ago

It looks like telegram under the U.S SCA and FISA acts may be gagged from disclosing government surveillance as well in their privacy policy or terms of service.

However, their privacy policy on secret chats say this.

Secret chats use end-to-end encryption. This means that all data is encrypted with a key that only you and the recipient know. There is no way for us or anybody else without direct access to your device to learn what content is being sent in those messages. We do not store your secret chats on our servers. We also do not keep any logs for messages in secret chats, so after a short period of time we no longer know who or when you messaged via secret chats. For the same reasons secret chats are not available in the cloud — you can only access those messages from the device they were sent to or from.

This would be a lie if government agencies had backdoor access to your EE2E messages. And would potentially line themselves up to a lawsuit? However I am not a lawyer and don't know if there are other laws that overwrite this.

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Cocopanda 11 points a year ago

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finitebanjo 7 points a year ago

Or Telegram.

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Cocopanda 2 points a year ago

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OldChicoAle 4 points a year ago

Uninstalled!

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MazonnaCara89 10 points a year ago

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Jimmycakes 10 points a year ago

I only use telegram to buy illegal iptv subscriptions. Is there a reason I would ever need grok in there?

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ZILtoid1991 2 points a year ago

Yes, because we're only a few weeks away from Artificial General Intelligence, which will create an Artificial Superintelligence, and it'll be just like in the hit cyberpunk novel, Don't Create the Torment Nexus.

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boonhet 5 points a year ago

If Grok starts responding with "idk I wanna kill myself" to "what do you want for dinner", I'm quite sorry, those are my conversations. To be clear, I'm not the one who constantly wants to die.

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And009 2 points a year ago

Shoddy talk, grok's still alive.

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boonhet 2 points a year ago

So is she, it was all manipulation.

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brygphilomena 4 points a year ago

Fuck telegram. I get so many spam messages there.

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Pro 4 points a year ago

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itslilith 3 points a year ago

Network effect. It's been hard enough to get friends and family to move away from Whatsapp, it's going to be a while till I get them away from telegram as well

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mdfr4nk 1 point a year ago

Only ever used it for one piece of software we use that decided their support network would be hosted on Telegram. All I get is spam message asking if I live in my own country...

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cupcakezealot 3 points a year ago

who'd have thought that elon would get into bed with a ceo who was arrested for child porn

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dubyakay 10 points a year ago

Was he?

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SecretCobra85 2 points a year ago

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