That post seems to be missing.

errer 124 points 3 years ago

Also most of Europe is significantly north of the USA so…yeah. Non-story.

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GregorGizeh 71 points 3 years ago

Actually it’s mostly due to the construction materials and techniques used. American houses are generally less well insulated and built with the explicit expectation that there will be active air conditioning used to maintain the temperature.

Meanwhile in Europe this is not only comparatively very expensive to do, it is also largely unnecessary due to many buildings predating modern air conditioning, using good insulation and passive systems to maintain a comfortable temperature. There are also regulations on newly built houses that make it generally attractive to build energy efficient.

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roguetrick 62 points 3 years ago

One thing I can promise you, even if it's not 2x4 construction, those brick and plaster walls will turn a house into an oven over the summer even with judicious control of open windows. They just store up the heat for a night time that feels like noon day sun. Folks used to straight up sleep on their porches.

Signed,
A resident of an un-air conditioned brick and plaster house in the mid Atlantic currently sweating his balls off

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Muz333 23 points 3 years ago

That’s been a problem with climate change in the UK where air conditioning doesn’t really exist but we are starting to experience warmer weather than the houses were built for.

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Aux 6 points 3 years ago

Most British houses don't have any insulation, that's why they suck. Try a new build and feel the difference.

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neuropean 8 points 3 years ago

Source?

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Telodzrum 34 points 3 years ago

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Hillock 25 points 3 years ago

The North American Insulation Manufacturers Association (NAIMA) reported that approximately 90% of U.S. single-family homes are under-insulated and are wasting energy and money

https://www.constructiondive.com/....

European houses are typically built with masonry, while North American houses are usually made of wood.

http://masonrydesign.blogspot.com/...

Then there are some design choice difference that also matters. In the US average ceiling height is around 9 foot. In Europe it's 11. Open floor plans are more common in the US. It's a trend coming to Europe but given the average age of a house in Europe it's still relatively rare.

Yes, the USA has plenty of well built houses. No one is arguing against this. And the climate plays a bigger part why most of Europe doesn't have AC. But the statement is still true. European homes are generally built without taking an AC into consideration and are trying to fix the issues in a passive way because of it.

The USA aren't the worst offender either. Australia has it way worse. They have some of the worst insulation and are melting during summer and freezing during winter. Despite spending an ungodly amount on cooling and heating.

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joel_feila 5 points 3 years ago

I recently got all new insulation, central ac, ducts. Just getting new insulation helpped a lot but I dont how much is enough. The company just showed a chart and said this how mich is standard here. Yes it is an american home yes it is brick.

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Mouselemming 3 points 3 years ago

Hmm, my apartment building is mostly cinderblock and concrete, I have 12 foot ceilings, I'm on the first (above the entry) of five floors so hot air should rise away, and I have good double glazing with UV blocking film and screens. But mid-afternoon when that low-latitude Southern California sun hits, and the Santa Anas are blowing off the desert, even closing all the curtains and turning off appliances can't keep it cool. So we set the AC for 77 and swelter until the sun goes behind the building across the street. And I make sure I get all the day's cooking done in the morning so I'm not adding any heat. I've seen Europeans come and sunburn themselves because they think they know how long they can play in the sun but they haven't met OUR sun. It's just more direct.

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rambaroo 2 points 3 years ago

It's very very common in the Northeast to not have AC in spite of the wooden construction and lack of insulation. No one in my family from upstate NY has AC. The climate is the vast majority of the reason there's more AC in the US.

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RagingNerdoholic -1 points 3 years ago

American houses are generally less well insulated and built with the explicit expectation that there will be active air conditioning used to maintain the temperature.

Well, that's just silly and shortsighted. A well-insulated house will maintain its temperature more efficiently and require less active temperature control.

So that sort of mindset seems pretty on point for 'murica.

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mean_bean279 41 points 3 years ago

So is Canada, but it has 64% of homes with air conditioning.

Also, maybe it’s just me, but like didn’t England, France, Spain, Italy and southern Germany all hit like 100f (38c) or higher this summer (and other summers before that)?

It’s less of a story and more a telling sign that climate change is having a direct impact on humans that it’s becoming more and more necessary for people in even European, Canadian and even PNW climates to adapt and outfit houses and businesses with them.

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moitoi 10 points 3 years ago

Southern Germany didn't hit 38.

The main reason is how people build houses. In Europe, people use different meterials (bricks, mortar, concrete, etc.) which insulate and put on top insulation. Walls are thicker too. The good insulation keep the heat outside.

The other is the law. Europe has regulations on AC. For example, if I want AC in my house, I must compansate the electricy consumption with renewable.

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joel_feila 7 points 3 years ago

Most of the American homes i have lived in are brick homes.

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Matt_Shatt 6 points 3 years ago

Not arguing about which is better but most American brick homes you see are a brick veneer, still renting on plywood, studs, and Sheetrock for the actual wall.

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Viking_Hippie -1 points 3 years ago

You're part right and part wrong:

While building with different materials DOES change insulation, that doesn't mean it always makes the buildings cooler.

On the contrary, building with bricks, as is standard for all year residential buildings throughout most of Europe is a way to trap and detain heat, NOT a way to keep heat out.

You see, the greatest temperature difficulty before anthropogenic global was the outside being too COLD, so that's what we've been building for and because of that, AC hasn't been as necessary.

Nowadays though, the heat retaining structures with no AC are becoming unbearably hot for much of the year. We desperately need environmentally responsible AC.

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Aux 6 points 3 years ago

That's nonsense. Insulation works both ways. It doesn't differentiate if outside is cold or hot. A well insulated house will keep you warm during winter and cool during summer.

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Anemia 2 points 3 years ago

Ottawa is on the same latitude as Venice so it's not like canada is very northly (though i know canada has a much more varied temperature range). That aside i think there are many reasons, like the southern countries are not as wealthy as US and theres a culture of using other methods to survive the heat such as building colors, not paving every cm^2 of land etc. And if we look at more northen Eu countries like where I live (sweden) the highest ever measured temp is 38c (100.4f). So anyone here who needs an AC for the few days when the temp is above 25c is a card carrying bitch.

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fiah 13 points 3 years ago

The climate of Europe is a lot warmer than in America for the same latitude

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ammonium 5 points 3 years ago

Winters are warmer, summers not so much.

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ribboo 1 point 3 years ago

Is that really true?

I can’t speak for all of Europe, I just don’t know. But Northern Europe definitely has warmer summers than areas at a comparable latitude.

I live in a part of Sweden that’s at a comparable level of Siberia. I promise you our summers are much warmer.

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ammonium 1 point 3 years ago

Yes, I think you underestimate Siberian summers. Here are three places with (fairly) similar latitude and identical summer temperatures, but nearly 20°C difference in winter: https://weatherspark.com/...

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ME5SENGER_24 8 points 3 years ago

Are you fucking high?!? 38° is a hot summer day in Europe. Thats 100.4° F. When I lived there I hated life. Mosquitoes outside my window without a screen, so a breeze was out of the question. No A/C inside so breathing was also out of the question. I eventually found reprieve in the form of a 5” fan sold to me by an old man.

Point is, celsius or fahrenheit, its fucking hot

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Swedneck 7 points 3 years ago

wait until you learn about the gulf stream

you basically have to move Houston to Madrid for temperatures to be comparable by latitude

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Oszilloraptor 4 points 3 years ago

wait until you learn about the gulf stream

nothing we're not about to remove from the calculation

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acockworkorange 1 point 3 years ago

Having lived in Germany for a year, no. It gets hot in the summer. It's hard to concentrate while at work when there isn't even a fan. I don't get it. It would make economic sense for businesses like the software house I worked for, on productivity loss alone.

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shottymcb 4 points 3 years ago

The average high temperature for Germany in July is 77°f

The average high temperature in the state of Georgia in July is 89°f

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shortwavesurfer 3 points 3 years ago

Haha. Average. I live here in GA and while the average may be 89 i havent seen a temp below 90 since june. Its more like a 95 average recently.

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acockworkorange 1 point 3 years ago

I'm Brazilian. I don't know what the average temperature is in Brazil in freedom units, but I know I can function there during summer because of AC. In Germany in 2007 I was basically just starting at a computer screen while sweating without much to show for it.

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stephenc -2 points 3 years ago

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Mardukas 6 points 3 years ago

Everyone having AC is a good way of accelerating climate change

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WhiteHawk 2 points 3 years ago

It's preferrable to heat stroke

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lud 2 points 3 years ago

It's very expensive though.

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sznio 0 points 3 years ago

And will only get more expensive.

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Xenxs 115 points 3 years ago

Because for most of Europe, it wasn't needed to have AC up until more recent years. You would have maybe what? 5-10 days a year that were actually really warm. People wouldn't install an AC for that.

These numbers will drastically change the coming decades.

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DessertStorms 32 points 3 years ago

These numbers will drastically change the coming decades

which will only make things worse, since AC just moves all the heat from indoors, out, and uses energy to work of course.
What we really need is builders to start taking the extra heat in to account and designing accordingly (there are loads of different ways to physically control the temperature of a space instead of mechanically).
Shame that'll never actually happen..

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wieli99 21 points 3 years ago

Can you elaborate on that? European housing is built with a lot of focus on insulation and heat control, what are you referring to?

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dublet 13 points 3 years ago

European housing is built with a lot of focus on insulation and heat control

It's more about also keeping heat out, as well as heat in. Which have overlap but are not necessarily the same thing. See this conversation for some more details.

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bouh 11 points 3 years ago

Buildings with all glass façades are an insulation nightmare. Cities need more water, plants and trees. Houses need can be built to favour shadow and fressness. You can even go anciant design that were naturally cooled and winded, like roman or African houses.

I don't know about other European countries, but France housing is a disaster the last 40 years. It's only been a decade at best that insulation is a consideration, but the quality is quite bad.

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MajorHavoc 2 points 3 years ago

The big change that needs to happen soon is passive heat blocking for personal residences.

Most HOAs don't allow a big extra wooden structure over the roof to block the sun; but they're going to need to start to keep home prices up.

But HOAs are designed to make rule changes almost impossible. So I predict we're going to see a lot of expensive neighborhoods become cheap ones in the next 15 years, due to their HOA not fkexing to support necessary heat control structures.

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pedalmore 1 point 3 years ago

This is a hairbrained idea. Nobody is seriously considering building massive wooden structures over entire home just for shade. Just focus on cool roofs, solar panels, trees, and usual weatherization.

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barsoap 6 points 3 years ago

Overall it's still going to be a net saving as people switch from electric/gas heat to heat pumps and AC is just those but running in reverse.

And, of course, insulation. The reason we got away without AC is due to generally very large thermal mass of the exterior, you shutter everything in the morning to keep the heat out and when the temperatures drop again you open everything and let the air cool everything down. Thing is: In those recent waves there were plenty of nights where the temperature didn't really drop.

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Aux 19 points 3 years ago

That's not true. While Northern Europe doesn't really need aircon, Southern Europe is pretty bloody hot since the days of Christ. The difference is that European houses are built with insulation in mind, US houses are built from sticks and shit.

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jimbolauski 12 points 3 years ago

The insulation requirements in the US are higher than many European areas with similar climates. Germany for instance would fall in region 4 and 5 of the US climate wise. R-30 is required for walls, R60 for ceilings, and R20 for floors for homes in the US. Germany recommends 6cm of wall insulation ~R8, 14cm for ceiling ~R19, and 6cm for the floor R8.___

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barsoap 6 points 3 years ago

You know if you muppets used sane units you'd be right. But you're using colonial measurements.

Here's conversion table. US R30 is equivalent to proper units R5.3, R60 is R10.5.

...and we don't really have recommendations as such. KfW55 is nowadays mandatory for new construction, KfW70 and up gets you cheap loans. KfW70 means less than 45 kWh/m² per year for heating and they don't really care how you achieve that. We didn't really get around yet factoring cooling into stuff.

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jimbolauski 3 points 3 years ago

I was using freedom units for both. The R values were determined based on insulation thickness. Because you Europeans use energy consumption for your requirements it's impossible to compare with US requirements. I did find this table giving recommendations for insulation.

https://www.new-learn.info/...

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Huschke 10 points 3 years ago

Not saying that is the case, but 20% of Europeans with A/C could also mean that 100% of the people in the very south have it and noone else.

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madejackson 6 points 3 years ago

You're also wrong. Mainly, It has to do with the thermal capacity/mass of the building and not with differences in insulation values.

There are pros and cons for all building types.

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Aux -25 points 3 years ago

I'm not wrong, sorry.

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shottymcb 0 points 3 years ago

https://assets.weforum.org/...

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SocialMediaRefugee 4 points 3 years ago

US houses are insulated depending on their climate zone.

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SCB 3 points 3 years ago

Southern Italy peaks at 32C and low humidity. That is absolutely nowhere close to the heat we get in much of the US.

US houses are most definitely built with insulation in mind. That point is somehow more laughable than you not knowing your own temps.

Literally every part of your claim is incorrect.

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WhiteHawk 7 points 3 years ago

Southern Italy peaked at over 50° C this year, and do you really think a country completely surrounded by an ocean has low humidity?

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SCB -4 points 3 years ago

Yes, comparatively.

Also I assure you no one is making building code choices based on one year.

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happyhippo 6 points 3 years ago

Dude, I'm in Tuscany which is nowhere near the peaks of southern Italy.

This is what awaits me

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SCB -3 points 3 years ago

This matches my expectations pretty well

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Xenxs 0 points 3 years ago

I said most of Europe, not all of Europe.

I'm well aware that AC is common to have in the south but then you're talking about like 4 countries. Once you move north of those, it's not all that common to have an AC in the house.

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Aux 1 point 3 years ago

Wut? No one is using AC.

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OceanSoap 0 points 3 years ago

Your houses would be built with the same materials if you had the earthquakes and tornadoes to deal with.

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Aux 0 points 3 years ago

No.

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ParsnipWitch 11 points 3 years ago

Especially since some people are pushing for lower regulations on how to build houses in some countries in Europe. Yes, there is a housing crisis going on. But when we start to build weaker buildings because of that, we just make other problems worse.

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negativeyoda 5 points 3 years ago

Yes but not necessarily in the way you think

https://www.theguardian.com/...

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zepheriths 73 points 3 years ago

The US is also warmer on average compared to Europe. Because parts of the US are at the same latitude as Cario, Egypt.

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nomadjoanne 12 points 3 years ago

The climate is definitely different. You are right overall. But some places like New York or Chicago are both hotter and colder depending on the time of year.

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Kazumara 7 points 3 years ago

But some places like New York or Chicago are both hotter and colder

Than what? Chrisinau, Sevastopol and Bucharest are similar to New York

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Schmuppes -6 points 3 years ago

Hush now, don't tell him about the gulf stream or maritime/continental climate. He might learn something.

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ShortFuse 7 points 3 years ago

Isotherm Map

Essentially, when summer hits, US is hotter than Europe. Canada has the same temperature in summer.

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Desistance 59 points 3 years ago

It's not a conspiracy or some grand revelation.

They didn't need it before. Much of America didn't either. A lot of old wood houses had designs built for airflow and trees surrounding the houses. Those that didn't got old attic fans that would pull air from the bottom of the house to the top and out of vents.

These days, insulation and HVAC exists and Americans jumped at the chance to have year round temperature control. Heat pumps now have the best efficiency for cooling and heating year round and can replace most options. Almost everyone will need this option as global warming barrell out of control.

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SocialMediaRefugee 6 points 3 years ago

I hate it when people chop down all of the trees around their house, I assume because they don't want the leaves on their yard. I have a bunch of trees around my house, the downside is it is sort of dark in the house and it is hard to have a garden, the plus side is it must be at least 10 degrees cooler inside in the summer. I've left the house overdressed thinking it is a cool day because of it.

You'd have to have an extremely drafty house for them to pull air from the bottom of the house and your attic floor should be well insulated anyway. The recirculating air is coming from the soffits and vents. The best reason to have an attic fan is if you have an AC unit in the attic, then you want to get hot air out of that space.

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Faresh 5 points 3 years ago

If you live far from the cities, then cutting down the trees immediately close to your house can be a very reasonable thing to do (some countries even mandate it), because if a wildfire comes around, it is more likely your house will survive if it isn't surrounded by flammable materials.

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grue 1 point 3 years ago

Tell me you live in California without telling me you live in California.

(Or maybe elsewhere in the west, or maybe Australia or something -- the point is, it's not a rural thing, it's a rural + arid climate thing.)

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Pogbom 2 points 3 years ago

Many non-arid Canadian provinces are on fire now. This guidance is given to anyone in a rural area in Vancouver, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and NWT.

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CarlCook 42 points 3 years ago

In the last years the max temps during the summer months in southern Germany have significantly risen - often over 30 C. I just moved into a new house here that fulfills the latest energy efficiency standards (kfw55) and am surprised how well it also insulates against heat. With a recuperating air ventilation system it’s pretty bearable without active cooling.

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Mr_Blott 29 points 3 years ago

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Shepstr 13 points 3 years ago

Brits don't know how to handle heat at all. We open all our windows during the day and let all the hot air in, and then complain about the house being too hot at night. We also like to open the windows on air conditioned trains and buses so we can complain about the air con not working.

It's purely down the not understanding and not having to understand how to manage heat and that our houses are terribly insulated. We're an island of clouds and rain.

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Mr_Blott 4 points 3 years ago

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joel_feila -1 points 3 years ago

Where i am right now it the middle of the night and 30c . not exactly letting a lot cool air in in those conditions

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Mr_Blott 4 points 3 years ago

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ineedaunion 40 points 3 years ago

Still wish I had EU citizenship. Imaging getting on a train and going anywhere you want.

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davetapley 36 points 3 years ago

My life so far:

Be born in UK, be able to work / live anywhere in EU
Emigrate to USA to try that for a bit (can always move back to anywhere in EU if I don't like it!)
Brexit
Trump

And yes, I do miss the trains.

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quicksand 10 points 3 years ago

Yikes. Sorry for your misfortune

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hitmyspot 3 points 3 years ago

Ireland is still an option for UK citizens. If you have skills, nz, Australia or Canada are welcoming too.

It's not all bad.

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Mdotaut801 2 points 3 years ago

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xX_fnord_Xx 10 points 3 years ago

I mean, if you are a us citizen you have free reign to take a painfully slow train to one of the three states that doesn't suck.

Wait, the third state is currently on fire.

Make that two states.

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ineedaunion 5 points 3 years ago

Yup. Be careful not to derail because corporate overlords can't even give railworkers 3 days off a year.

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static_motion 2 points 3 years ago

Not really true for a lot of Europe, but yes, it is a good thing.

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obinice 38 points 3 years ago

Well, yes. Until people caused climate change, we didn't need air cooling systems. Depending on where you lived, you need to build to keep heat IN buildings, even.

But, here we are, a planet on fire. So now we need air cooling to survive, lest our weakest, elderly, infirm, young children die. Then down the line once it's even worse, it'll be needed just so that any of us can survive.

Feck the bourgeoisie and the generations of apathetic fools under them that have allowed this to happen :-(

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WoodlandAlliance -36 points 3 years ago

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HikingVet 7 points 3 years ago

Let's see your efforts.

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nodsocket 2 points 3 years ago

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WoodlandAlliance -15 points 3 years ago

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HikingVet 10 points 3 years ago

Well, if you are going to call someone out, at least have a list of things you do.

Using some of the examples from my own life: I use public transit or bike. I don't own a car. I grow vegetables in my yard. I make a conscious effort to recycle and reduce my waste. I saving to upgrade my heat from oil to much more sustainable technologies. I don't use a powered tool where a manual will do, and if I have to use a powered tool I stay away from fuel powered ones.

Now, what are your efforts?

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southsamurai 31 points 3 years ago

Man, when you're in the high 90s, with humidity in the same numbers, it doesn't matter how high your ceilings are, how much airflow you have under the house and through the attic, it sucks. And by sucks, I mean it can kill people sometimes.

Growing up here in the south, we didn't have AC until somewhere in the late eighties, and that was a big window unit. Most days during the summer, you had no ability to do much of anything without suffering. After the window unit, we could at least eat dinner without being nauseous from heat.

This house didn't have central air until 2003, when I put it in after I made a small bundle selling a book. I will never fucking go back to not having it. We keep it set fairly warm unless my wife is having trouble (MS fucks your ability to thermoregulate, and getting overheated can cause problems that can last weeks), but it simply isn't realistic to do without it.

I have no clue what Europe is like in terms of summer weather patterns. But the south has these old houses like ours that are built to make the weather as livable as possible, and they don't really succeed any more.

If I had the money, I'd likely switch to a heat pump, but I don't, so oh well.

And that's not even going into the extra expenses that come without AC of some kind. You get the heat and humidity going, and mold becomes a guarantee rather than a possibility. Wood warps, and stuff like plaster or drywall don't exactly enjoy the humidity either.

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freeman 8 points 3 years ago

Plenty of AC in Greece, per room split units not central.

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count_dongulus 5 points 3 years ago

Splits with heat pumps are more efficient anyway. The fancy ones with ceiling cassettes seem easier to install and maintain too, with zonal temp controls for even better efficiency.

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freeman 1 point 3 years ago

Sure but most of them do not have heat pumps here.

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Redex68 5 points 3 years ago

You sure, because I'm pretty sure like 90% of AC in Europe is probably heat pumps because it doesn't make sense for them not to be. It doesn't change the cost at all, it functions the same like if you just used cooling.

I know at least that every AC I checked here in Croatia was a heat pump.

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xNIBx 4 points 3 years ago

Everyone has AC(often more than one), but noone has any money to pay for the electricity to use the AC. So many people dont use them or only use them for a couple of hours.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

This is the main reason according to my European friends. The electricity cost is the issue.

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rusticus 25 points 3 years ago

For those that need a geography lesson to explain: https://vividmaps.com/...

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grue 4 points 3 years ago

And for those now suddenly wondering why Europe isn't even colder than it actually is, the answer is that the Gulf Stream brings a lot of heat. Also, the reason why it hasn't historically tended to get as hot as the American upper midwest/great plains during the summer is that the rest of the water surrounding it, such as the Med and the Baltic, helps moderate the temperature (as opposed to the "continental" climate of the midwest).

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ZetaLightning94 24 points 3 years ago

Two different climates too. USA is centred closer to the equater then all of Europe, which means more people live in year round heat, and want A/C to cool off.

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CreativeShotgun 5 points 3 years ago

Right? People forget this all the time and say "just open a window you baby" bitch it's been 100+ (37c) every day for three months here, %50 humidity minimum. Our overnight lows are your daytime temps.

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SocialMediaRefugee 2 points 3 years ago

Even water temps in bays in FL have been pushing to 100F

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SocialMediaRefugee 15 points 3 years ago

As someone who struggled to sleep in sweat soaked sheets in a small hotel in France can they at least give you a fan?

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nodsocket 12 points 3 years ago

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SocialMediaRefugee 11 points 3 years ago

Korea has entered the chat

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Faresh 1 point 3 years ago

You could use a fan, sleep without a blanket or sleep hugging a water-filled water bottle. The latter two is what I generally do on warm days (or use a really thin sheet if it is not too warm). Also keep the windows open at night so the house can cool down before the sun rises and starts irradiating your walls and roof.

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negativeyoda 13 points 3 years ago

They aren't going to need it shortly

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chris2112 17 points 3 years ago

Very misleading title

The new analysis estimates a timescale for the collapse of between 2025 and 2095, with a central estimate of 2050

To be clear, this is still really bad, but it's typical media reporting where scientists say sometime in the next 70 years and the media changes it to "next year"

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negativeyoda 13 points 3 years ago

I don't disagree about the headline, but ~70 years for something that last happened in the ice age is imminent on a geologic scale. I mean, shit: that's within my kid's lifetime.

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chris2112 3 points 3 years ago

Oh yeah no for sure, we're pretty much past the point of no return at this point for shitty things happening in my of our lifetimes, even if humanity decides to suddenly start doing something about it

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bouh 2 points 3 years ago

On the other hand we weren't supposed to hit +1.5° average before 2050, and here we are in 2023, unless a global scale event happens to cool the earth, we'll hit this mark.

This year arctica never had this low ice cover. Same for antartica. Mountains are falling in Switzerland because of the lack of ice cover. It's very bad and there might be cascading effects.

Gulf stream stopping could very well be happening in 2 years. It is a possibility. But even if it happens in 2050 it's not really good you know.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

If the gulf stream shuts down you'll get your glaciers back and then some.

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bouh 1 point 3 years ago

Oh great, and the climate will certainly not change one bit! /s

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thetreesaysbark 5 points 3 years ago

Shit.

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MonkderZweite 2 points 3 years ago

Need to register to read further.

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negativeyoda 3 points 3 years ago

12ft.io is your friend

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30mag -5 points 3 years ago

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ButWhatDoesItAllMean 12 points 3 years ago

These comment threads could use some air conditioning!

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Resol 9 points 3 years ago

TIL that Fahrenheit exists.

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SocialMediaRefugee 3 points 3 years ago

Wait until you find out about Kelvin

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Faresh 1 point 3 years ago

And after that wait until you find out about Rankine.

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Resol 1 point 3 years ago

I know about Kelvin. I hate it.

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djsaskdja 9 points 3 years ago

Gulf Stream

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Swedneck 1 point 3 years ago

Gulf stream, more water around countries which evens out temperature changes, more insulation which prevents heat from getting in, more massive construction generally which also helps moderate temperature changes, and we probably have better building codes in general so stuff like ventilation doesn't make things worse by letting the cold out.

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reddig33 9 points 3 years ago

It wouldn’t surprise me if that changes over the next few years.

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CoachDom 9 points 3 years ago

Aren't heat pumps a cleaner, better alternative to traditional AC?

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Aux 40 points 3 years ago

Heat pumps ARE AC. Also your fridge.

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schnokobaer 10 points 3 years ago

And (multi-)split wall mounted ACs are among the most efficient heat pumps as well with SCOPs above 4.5. It's frustratingly little-known or talked about (in central Europe anyway), because these devices would also be a much cheaper and more efficient heat-pump upgrade for older buildings that don't have low temp supply-water heating and would normally need to be completely gutted to install floor heating or large radiators.

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madejackson 2 points 3 years ago

While being the cheapest, AC is also the type of heating with the least amount of comfort, while the most expensive solution, underfloor or wall heating is the best comfort. Radiant heat is much less intrusive than blowing air around violently.

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schnokobaer 4 points 3 years ago

That being said I think it also has its perks like the forced convection heats up a cold room much quicker and in a bathroom it assists drying surfaces or clothing on a drying rack (to stick with European customs). Meanwhile floor heating is extremely slow with some annoying side effects like it basically doesn't react to noon sun shining into a room and heating it up or stuff like that.

But I'm not going to argue that comfort wise floor heating is far superior.

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Aux -1 points 3 years ago

You can install heat exchange unit. It will work as AC to cool you down and it will also heat your water and underfloor system. More advanced units can also be supplemented by gas/electricity when heat pump part is not effective (usually on very cold days).

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DerKanzler 2 points 3 years ago

Air Heat pumps are AC.

There are different types which uses earth or water body heat and are even more efficient but expensive.

Technology wise they are AC though

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Gromit83 6 points 3 years ago

Yes. And many homes in Europe have them. US term for them are split AC systems.

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beefcat 2 points 3 years ago

A heat pump is just an air conditioner that works both ways (it can pump heat into or out of your house).

In the US, most people just buy air conditioners because natural gas furnaces cost less to operate than heat pumps.

The move to renewables and rooftop solar is making heat pumps more attractive than the conventional AC + furnace, but nothing about a heat pump is more efficient than an AC in the summer because they are fundamentally the same thing.

Where heat pumps are a big efficiency win is in places without natural gas. Assuming your winter weather doesn't get too cold, pumping outside heat into your house uses substantially less electricity than resistive heating.

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CoachDom 1 point 3 years ago

Thanks everybody for your input 😉 Now I know the differences!

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laenurd 1 point 3 years ago

The technology behind them works exactly the same, only that usually the direction of heat transport is reversed. So at least the "cleaner" part depends largely on the chemicals used, not whether it's an AC unit or a central heat pump.

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ebenixo 6 points 3 years ago

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MarkHughes4096 6 points 3 years ago

I'm in the UK and I am currently buying a house, I looked at hundreds and the one I am buying is the only one with built in AirCon, Only to 1 room though. It really is rare here, I have a portable unit but it isn't that good, I think these are what many people have but actual built in air conditioning is in my experience very rare.

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tony 4 points 3 years ago

It's expensive to add and the cost is per room.. plus portable isn't that bad for the couple of weeks of actual warm weather.

I can't even have portable as I have no opening windows in the main room.. would have to fix that first. Luckily insulation works both ways and it doesn't really get that hot in here yet.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

What is the average age for a house there? I'm guessing the cost of central air installation (duct work) vs sticking a window unit in is the issue. Then there is the cost of electricity so just cooling one room at a time will be cheaper.

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MarkHughes4096 1 point 3 years ago

They are often quite old... http://www.historicdoors.co.uk/...

The older ones (Like the one I am selling) are built like big heat sinks, The intention is that you always have the coal fire burning in the day I think and the whole building stays warm over night. However in the very warm weather we get now these houses are not so great.

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jjjalljs 5 points 3 years ago

I just sweat and let it get up to 87⁰F+ in here. I'm doing my part.

Meanwhile my friend runs her ac and then sits under a blanket in her apartment.

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WalrusDragonOnABike 3 points 3 years ago

Been getting 87/88F in my apartment during the day. Run the AC at night tho.

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BrainisfineIthink 5 points 3 years ago

It may actually be better to set your AC to a highish temp like 81-82 so that it keeps it at that level without running non stop. If the house is 89-90 it takes a very long time and uses a great deal of energy to cool the air down. Maintaining a tolerable temperature can actually help conserve energy in many cases. Obviously you do you and all systems are different but could be worth trying!

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VanillaGorilla 3 points 3 years ago

I've been running my mobile unit (in Germany) yesterday just to dry the air. It didn't cool, the living room was even a bit warmer than the rest of the apartment, but it was so much better.

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Wwwbdd 3 points 3 years ago

The exchange of heat is proportional to the temperature difference. It will always take more energy to keep that gap wider between inside and out. The most energy efficient thing you can do is to deal with the outside temp as much as you can bear it and keep that inside/outside differential as low as possible

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BrainisfineIthink 1 point 3 years ago

There you go, said better/more clearly.

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shortwavesurfer 2 points 3 years ago

Jeez. I can do 83, but 87 is way to warm.

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WalrusDragonOnABike 1 point 3 years ago

Most people's bodies will adapt with time. 87F is where I start to noticing it being warm, where 6 months ago that would have been like 80F

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olav 1 point 3 years ago

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NathanielThomas 5 points 3 years ago

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soviettaters 10 points 3 years ago

Canada is of a similar latitude to Europe so it's cooler.

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NathanielThomas 4 points 3 years ago

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soviettaters 3 points 3 years ago

Believe me, I know. I spend a lot of time in the Pacific Northwest so I've felt heat without AC. In just explaining why homes have traditionally not had AC.

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YouWorkForMeNow 6 points 3 years ago

(BC Lower Mainland) I installed a heat pump in my main living area last year and by god it has been my best investment in years. Hydro bill dropped and I'm very comfortable all year round. Can't believe how long I put up with not owning one.

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chiliedogg 2 points 3 years ago

Are you on your 43rd consecutive day over 100°

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speck 3 points 3 years ago

Huh. I'm in the 12% of something

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WtfEvenIsExistence 2 points 3 years ago

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wrath-sedan 1 point 3 years ago

No wonder they’re more worried about climate change /s

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mojo 0 points 3 years ago

Apparently a lot of them don't have sliding windows with screens either. Maybe they'll catch up on that one day.

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soupjester 25 points 3 years ago

Imagine not having double-paned tilt turn windows.

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Ulv 4 points 3 years ago

You only have two panes? Three panes is the way and the truth.

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theKalash 2 points 3 years ago

How about double pane but with a really big pane?

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Ulv 1 point 3 years ago

I seem too have misundeestod i didnt know you meant two windown i thought it was about layers of glass per window

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mojo -3 points 3 years ago

I can tell the Europeans are on because they're roleplaying that those are somehow better lol. Tilt windows make no sense over sliding windows if you're looking at it objectively.

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Copernican 4 points 3 years ago

I think some of those historical cities will prohibit that to maintain the architecture. What I have seen in some European apartments though are the floor model portable AC units. And they make these insulated fabric things that you velcro to the French windows and pain to create a insulated seal while keeping it partially open with the portable ac hose attached.

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Oszilloraptor 1 point 3 years ago

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mojo 1 point 3 years ago

It's a lot simpler, easier, and less likely to break. Sliding windows work in all weather, and they naturally go with window screens really well which ideally it should have.

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theKalash -1 points 3 years ago

Why would we adopt the vastly inferior American window design?

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mojo 0 points 3 years ago

Because it's superior. Do you tilt your car windows out?

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theKalash 0 points 3 years ago

Do you car windows only roll halfway down?

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mojo 1 point 3 years ago

Sliding windows don't, if that's the analogy you're failing to make.

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Hazdaz -1 points 3 years ago

Oh boy... cue up all the "Grrrrr America bad!" comments.

Lets see if we can play Lemmy Anti-America Bingo....

They'll be comments that American homes are supposedly worse quality than European ones by people that don't understand construction or economics.

Americans are wasteful.

Someone will mention European windows.

Post from people who misunderstanding thermal mass.

Lots of people forgetting what humidity is.

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GiddyGap 4 points 3 years ago

Are you suggesting that the things you mention are not true? There's probably a reason why people keep mentioning them, no?

No matter what, we are all in the climate crisis together, and everyone, including Americans, must do everything we can to make better choices when it comes to climate.

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Nepenthe 2 points 3 years ago

There’s probably a reason why people keep mentioning them, no?

Shouldn't you be mentioning them to the Germans and the Swedes, since the former uses the same drywall Americans do and the latter builds with wood? We get bitched at but never them, so it's not actually about the materials.

You guys have never seen a window screen before and politely assume there's no real-world reason they're needed here. The answer is bugs. LOTS of bugs. Diseased bugs. Putrid bugs that breed like hell. Bugs who spray you with little drops of acid. Those don't exist where you live, so you have neat windows.

I agree that we're supposed to be in this shit together. It's fucking maddening that every time a disaster happens in Europe, it feels like the majority of us empathize with you guys, but the second half an opportunity arises here, Europeans point and laugh. Often about things they don't fully get or that were their fault to begin with.

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Ser_Salty 6 points 3 years ago

What? I live in Germany, I have window screens and the neat windows. Do you think you can't but bug screens on a European window?

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GiddyGap 4 points 3 years ago

I live in the States. Well aware of the bugs. There are bugs in Europe, too. Just FYI.

But that's not the point. Americans still have to do a lot more. A mindset change is needed when it comes to climate.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

All the kneejerk "America is bad" people from reddit are here

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Treczoks -1 points 3 years ago

Have you ever been in a typical, modern European house?

Sadly (for the US), on average every single point on your list is true.

Just look at the places in the US hit by catastrophes. Basically, nothing but maybe foundations remain. If there is a fire, they usually add their mass to the fire instead of resisting. If a fire actually reaches a European town the damage is quite lower than what can be regularly seen of in the US.

And yes, Americans are wasteful. In so many regards, it is not funny. Living in suburbia and driving gas guzzling trucks where a normal car would more than suffice are just two examples.

European windows (and the general thermal isolation of houses in Europe) are way better at keeping cold and heat separated than even the better insulated cardboard boxes Americans call "houses".

Do you understand Q = Cth Δ T?

And most Europeans deal better with humidity (and heat) because they are used to it.

No you've got your bingo card full, go home and whine.

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xtremeownage -4 points 3 years ago

Yea... I can pretty much promise you, if it was 43c and 60% humidity in europe, like it is where I live currently... they would have A/C units.

Then, everyone always fusses because we drive so much here in the US, instead of walking everywhere.... without accounting for, the US is drastically bigger. So, yes karen, I don't ride by bicycle 35 miles to work.

Texas (one of the many states/territories in the US), overlaid onto europe:

Seriously, fuck off with the America is bad insults, with poor apples to oranges comparisons.

There is a lot of stuff we do that can be drastically improved, but, saying Europe doesn't need AC and the U.S. does, because (insert US lazy / inefficient reason here...), is pretty dumb.

I can literally cook food in my car, or on my roof. Yes, I need A/C.

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jjjalljs 2 points 3 years ago

Probably America should not have put the homes 35 miles away from the everything else. Further, it should stop resisting efforts to put things closer together.

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xtremeownage 3 points 3 years ago

Probably America should not have put the homes 35 miles away from the everything else. Further, it should stop resisting efforts to put things closer together.

You do realize- the majority of America does live in towns and cities, right?

You are over-generalizing.

I mean, its not like some people in europe don't drive a long distance to work either....

Perhaps the UK shouldn't have homes 35 miles away from everyone else.

See how that works?

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jjjalljs 3 points 3 years ago

I said 35 miles because the person I was responding to said 35 miles.

Most people in the US drive to work (and everything else) because things are too spread out.

I didn't say anything about Europe in my last post. I live in the us.

And yes, we should focus more on denser spaces and mixed use.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

Europe has had 2000 years and less space to cram everything together and their cities were built before cars.

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ineedaunion -5 points 3 years ago

Cry some more. America is literally shit. Stop bootlicking.

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xtremeownage 5 points 3 years ago

After reviewing your profile, it appears you like to be the victim, and blame the world for all of your issues, instead of trying to actually make a difference and improve things.

For future endeavours, why don't you try to make a difference, instead of expecting everyone to cater to your desires.

Please, don't bother responding this this comment, I have blocked you from this instance. Better things to do then to conversate with negative nancy all day.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

"Stop bootlicking."

Ah, the comeback of the person with no comeback.

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ineedaunion 1 point 3 years ago

Mmmmm tasty boots the corporate bootlicker loves to taste. Vote trump again 🥾👅🤡

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Lemmylaugh -8 points 3 years ago

They don’t need it. Saves energy

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lud 4 points 3 years ago

Yeah, until recently we didn't need it.

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downpunxx 3 points 3 years ago

hotter weather literally everywhere more often says you are a purposefully obtuse buffoon

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thanks for using Leebra!

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thanks for using Leebra!

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