Jack Dorsey Releases Vine Reboot Where AI Content Is Banned

a year ago by return2ozma to c/technology

Twitter co-founder and blockchain evangelist Jack Dorsey has revived the six-second video platform, Vine — well, sort of.
henfredemars 257 points a year ago

Enforcing that ban is going to be difficult.

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scytale 161 points a year ago

They’re gonna use AI to detect the use of AI.

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henfredemars 95 points a year ago

Not if I use AI to hide my use of AI first!

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SeductiveTortoise 39 points a year ago

They are going to implement an AI detector detector detector.

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henfredemars 26 points a year ago

It’s detectors all the way down.

But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that.

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urandom 3 points a year ago

Trace busta busta?

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captain_aggravated 3 points a year ago

But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector.

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gerryflap 12 points a year ago

Fun fact, this loop is kinda how one of the generative ML algorithms works. This algorithm is called Generative Adversarial Networks or GAN.

You have a so-called Generator neural network G that generates something (usually images) from random noise and a Discriminator neural network D that can take images (or whatever you're generating) as input and outputs whether this is real or fake (not actually in a binary way, but as a continuous value). D is trained on images from G, which should be classified as fake, and real images from a dataset that should be classified as real. G is trained to generate images from random noise vectors that fool D into thinking they're real. D is, like most neural networks, essentially just a mathematical function so you can just compute how to adjust the generated image to make it appear more real using derivatives.

In the perfect case these 2 networks battle until they reach peak performance. In practice you usually need to do some extra shit to prevent the whole situation from crashing and burning. What often happens, for instance, is that D becomes so good that it doesn't provide any useful feedback anymore. It sees the generated images as 100% fake, meaning there's no longer an obvious way to alter the generated image to make it seem more real.

Sorry for the infodump :3

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danc4498 5 points a year ago

Spoken like a true AI.

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boonhet 14 points a year ago

Well the AI-based AI detector isn't actively making creative people's work disappear into a sea of gen-AI "art" at least.

There's good and bad use cases for AI, I consider this a better use case than generating art. Now the question is whether or not it's feasible to detect AI this way.

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TheGrandNagus 4 points a year ago

Indeed.

I have an Immich instance running on my home server that backs up my and my wife's photos. It's like an open source Google Photos.

One of its features is an local AI model that recognises faces and tags names on them, as well as doing stuff like recognising when a picture is of a landscape, food, etc.

Likewise, Firefox has a really good offline translation feature that runs locally and is open source.

AI doesn't have to be bad. Big tech and venture capital is just choosing to make it so.

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LainTrain 4 points a year ago

Seems that way:

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Krompus 3 points a year ago

Ouroboros

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nondescripthandle 29 points a year ago

Just the threat of being able to summarily remove AI content and hand out account discipline will cut down drastically on AI and practically eliminate the really low effort 'slop', it's not perfect but it's damn useful.

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FaceDeer 15 points a year ago

It's also going to make it really easy to take down the content you don't like, just accuse it of being AI and watch the witch hunting roll in. I've seen plenty of examples of traditional artists getting accused of using AI in other forums, I don't imagine this will be any different.

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nondescripthandle 2 points a year ago

People already mass report to abuse existing AI moderation tools. It's already starting to be accounted for and I can't imagine it so much as slowing down implementing an anti AI rule if I'm being honest.

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oftenawake 2 points a year ago
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Capricorn_Geriatric 7 points a year ago

The ban doesn't need a 100% perfect AI screening protocol to be a success.

Just the fact that AI is banned might appeal to a wide demographic. If the ban is actually enforced, even in just 25% of the most blatant cases, it might be just the push a new platform needs to take off.

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edryd 2 points a year ago

Just because something might be hard means we should give up before even trying?

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Rothe 1 point a year ago

Of course not, but I don't think anybody suggested that.

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osaerisxero 1 point a year ago

Only if we let it be. There's no technical reason why the origin of a video couldn't have a signature generated by the capture device, or legally requiring AI models to do the same for any content they generate. Anything without an origin sticker is assumed to be garbage by default. Obviously there would need to be some way to make captures either anonymous or not at the user's choice, and nation states can evade these things with sufficient effort like they always do, but we could cut a lot of slop out by doing some simple stuff like that.

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pennomi 3 points a year ago
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kinsnik 2 points a year ago

while a phone signing a video to show that it was captured with the camera is possible, it will be easy too to fake the signature. all it would take would be a hacked device to steal the private key. and even if apple/google/samsung have perfectly secure systems to sign the origin of the video, there would be ton of cheaper phones that would likely won't.

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JoMiran 140 points a year ago

So what's the angle? The Internet is getting flooded by AI slop. AI needs fresh REAL content to train with. That's the angle. You are there to provide frsh amd original content to feed the AI.

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unexposedhazard 41 points a year ago

Thats a very good point and probably exactly the idea. Dorsey has always just been an actor that says one thing and thinks another.

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BonkTheAnnoyed 15 points a year ago

Omfg this is so awful it's likely either accidental truth or a damn good prediction

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FatVegan 7 points a year ago

Oh god, we have an AI incest flood ahead of us don't we?

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Lucidlethargy -2 points a year ago

Maybe the angle is just that people hate Ai? Seriously, especially young people...

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Apathy 14 points a year ago

Is you a youngin? Cause no product under the control of a billionaire is free. If it’s free, you are the product. AI is hated and they’re trying to make a product using that hate as a basis for target audience

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rumba 2 points a year ago

Nothing is free, If they can sell ads to people because they don't like AI, they will. They're rebooting it with about the same intent as it was originally designed to have.

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chunes -4 points a year ago

Again with this idea of the ever-worsening ai models. It just isn't happening in reality.

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pulsewidth 19 points a year ago

The same reality where GPT5's launch a couple months back was a massive failure with users and showed a lot of regression to less reliable output than GPT4? Or perhaps the reality where most corporations that have used AI found no benefit and have given up reported this year?

LLMs are good tools for some uses, but those uses are quite limited and niche. They are however a square peg being crammed into the round hole of 'AGI' by Altman etc while they put their hands out for another $10bil - or, more accurately while they make a trade swap deal with MS or Nvidia or any of the other AI orobouros trade partners that hype up the bubble for self-benefit.

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cley_faye 8 points a year ago

Not only it is actually happening, it's actually well researched and mathematically proven.

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EldritchFeminity 3 points a year ago

It has been proven over and over that this is exactly what happens. I don't know if it's still the case, but ChatGPT was strictly limited to training data from before a certain date because the amount of AI content after that date had negative effects on the output.

This is very easy to see because an AI is simply regurgitating algorithms created based on its training data. Any biases or flaws in that data become ingrained into the AI, causing it to output more flawed data, which is then used to train more AI, which further exacerbates the issues as they become even more ingrained in those AI who then output even more flawed data, and so on until the outputs are bad enough that nobody wants to use it.

Did you ever hear that story about the researchers who had 2 LLMs talk to each other and they eventually began speaking in a language that nobody else could understand? What really happened was that their conversation started to turn more and more into gibberish until they were just passing random letters and numbers back and forth. That's exactly what happens when you train AI on the output of AI. The "AI created their own language" thing was just marketing.

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other_cat 2 points a year ago

JPEG artifacts but language

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Lucidlethargy 3 points a year ago

You may want to use AI's some time for the sake of science. They are many times worse than a year ago.

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theneverfox -1 points a year ago

People really latched onto the idea, which was shared with the media by people actively working on how to solve the problem

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MourningDove 94 points a year ago
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Perspectivist 38 points a year ago

Or just had a filter to hide it. I don't feel like banning something from everyone just because I personally don't like it.

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MourningDove 10 points a year ago
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Joelk111 7 points a year ago

There's literally an app for it called Sora.

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Lost_My_Mind 0 points a year ago

Hmmmm, must not be American.

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finitebanjo -1 points a year ago

I think such a filter wouldn't function well enough to keep up, such is the case with search engines which offer the feature, and instead a 0 tolerance ban would be the only effective method.

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Perspectivist 1 point a year ago

Zero tolerance ban still requires a method of detecting AI content in order to enforce said ban. Having such detection system in place would then just as well give people the option to choose for themselves whether they want to see such content or not. Ofcourse such filter isn't 100% accurate but neither is a total ban. Some of that content will always get through.

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finitebanjo -1 points a year ago

Humans can make reports to contribute to banning accounts and even IPs that prove problematic.

Humans contributing tags for filters would be like fighting the tide with a spoon.

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nutsack -3 points a year ago

personally, I would ban it at the federal level and anytime you use it someone shows up at your house and destroys everything and throws away your computer. and then you go to jail. and then anyone who tries to visit you in jail gets punched in the face. and you have to eat poop in jail

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Korhaka 1 point a year ago

Prohibition of something easy to make run at home? An interesting choice.

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nutsack 0 points a year ago

yea

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SouthFresh 80 points a year ago

Loops ftw

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LainTrain 15 points a year ago

What's Loops?

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compostgoblin 48 points a year ago

A Fediverse platform for short form video, made by the guy who makes Pixelfed

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fonix232 15 points a year ago

Not really just short form, it's more of a take on video feeds rather than just the limited length quickcontent Vine was famous about.

Obviously the focus is still on short(ish) content format, but I see more and more people transition to longer videos to deliver content. On YT/Facebook most videos I see nowadays are 10min or above.

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SouthFresh 28 points a year ago path: 0 20481391 20482330 20482495, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 7
ouRKaoS 9 points a year ago

More tiktok than vine, really

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SouthFresh 8 points a year ago

You're not wrong, but an arbitrary maximum video length is the least of my problems with a Dorsey product

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stephen01king 4 points a year ago

But does it ban AI content?

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SouthFresh 24 points a year ago

That would be based on the server's policies, same as Lemmy or Mastodon.

I'd trust a federated environment a billion times more than anything Jack Dorsey is doing

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Perspectivist 21 points a year ago

TikTok but without users.

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k0e3 2 points a year ago

TIL. Thanks friend.

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Jhex 38 points a year ago

Why would anyone touch any garbage this guy produces?!

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Concave1142 34 points a year ago

Banned for now...

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LainTrain 0 points a year ago
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cupcakezealot 34 points a year ago

don't care dorsey is the problem

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ozoned 23 points a year ago

Another walled garden that will fracture the system even more and give even more credit to the open social web.

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Blisterexe 14 points a year ago

It is on nostr, I don't like the protocol very much but it is decentralised

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snooggums 13 points a year ago

Is it decentralized like the fediverse or 'decentralized' in theory like bluesky?

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priapus 8 points a year ago

Bluesky is decentralized, its just decentralized in a different way than Fediverse apps. A lot of fediverse people assume all decentralization would look like ActivityPub, so they just say its fake decentralization rather than learning how it works. (I know because I used to do the same, then I realized how little I understood it from this great blog post, and have since learned a lot more about it.)

There is already alternative infrastructure available (i.e. Blacksky and a variety of other applications hosted using ATProto (you can see a few here: https://bsky.social/about).

You can use any of these apps while maintaining full control of your own data by running your own PDS, or using any community maintained PDS. If you already have an account on the Bluesky PDS, you can migrate it, retaining all of your data. If you dont feel like migrating yet, you can also just export your rotation key, which would allow you to maintain control of your account even in the event that the Bluesky PDS does become evil or something.

Speaking of ATProto, sprk.so is a similar upcoming app, although I think its going to be more similar to TikTok than Vine.

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NaibofTabr 8 points a year ago

Yes.

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ozoned 5 points a year ago

No

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Blisterexe 7 points a year ago

It is actually decentralised as far as I can tell, although I would like to point out that bluesky is also decentralised, while bsky.app has dominant market share, nothing stops anyone from hosting their own, completely independent, instance. Some have already done so.

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priapus 2 points a year ago

And even with the large majority using bsky.app, the true decentralized nature of Bluesky is anyone can host the data server that contains the data for their account. Even if you keep using bsky.app as your frontend, your data can be kept on a self hosted PDS.

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n7gifmdn 2 points a year ago

Nostr is part of the fediverse, as is blueksy's ATProto. Neither Mastodon/LEmmy (ActivityPub) nor Bluesky (ATproto) are decentralized. They are poly-centric, and calling Bluesky poly-centric is still a little bit of a fib. NOSTR is truly decentralized. Here on Lemmy if the admin of piefed.world gets mad at the admin of lemmy.ca we couldnt' communicate anymore unless one of us got a new account. On NOSTR if the relay owner no longer wanted my content, you can connect to a different relay that does. (For example)

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baduhai 9 points a year ago

Except it's not a walled garden, it's built on nostr.

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BonkTheAnnoyed 21 points a year ago

Jack Dorsey once again singing "but baby I've changed!"

hard pass from me.

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LainTrain 11 points a year ago path: 0 20481914, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 3
logicbomb 5 points a year ago

In the main picture, about half of those videos use filters that do something based on the location of the person's head. Unless they've changed the definition since I went to college, that would be classified as a type of computer vision, aka AI.

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LainTrain 5 points a year ago

Yeah they just mean the more layperson understanding of AI as in AI-generated content or as YouTube Studio dubs it: "synthetic media" (pretty good term imo)

Basically just stuff that was "generated".

I'm sure transformative use of ML like filters etc. would be fine. Even incorporation of generated elements in otherwise a normal video would be fine.

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FaceDeer 0 points a year ago

So "I know it when I see it" rules, rather than anything rigorously defined.

Assuming this gets any traction at all the witch hunts will be rampant.

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REDACTED 10 points a year ago

Honestly, I don't really trust any cryptobro, I see them on similar level as AI-bros

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sturmblast 10 points a year ago

Lemmy hates everything and everyone it seems.

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khepri 18 points a year ago

Jack Dorsey more than deserves the hate and I'm happy to discuss it with you.

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Dayroom7485 9 points a year ago

We like our negativity here - it’s still okay to disagree and be positive though!

That being said, Dorsey was fine selling his last media company to the highest-bidding fascist. Chances are he‘ll do it again.

Personally, I won’t use any social media that isn’t billionaire-proof.

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rageagainstmachines 3 points a year ago

Valid criticism isn't baseless hate. And, is better to be skeptical than blindly complacent.

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Stefan_S_from_H 9 points a year ago
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snooggums 9 points a year ago

Weird Al is gonna be devastated!

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otacon239 2 points a year ago

What’s that guy need so much water for anyway?!?!?

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falseWhite 8 points a year ago
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Prior_Industry 11 points a year ago

As someone else said, don't be surprised if this is a ruse to hoover up training data that isn't AI generated. Guy is a tosser.

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roserose56 8 points a year ago

Sure pal, sure. That's what all said, no AI, and look now.
Can't wait whe they will offer him 1bilion or scare him to death to put AI on it.

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alekwithak 8 points a year ago

Loops: "Am I a joke to you?"

Everyone else: "Who said that?"

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Doomsider 7 points a year ago

To get the perfect selfie please pull your tongue back in your mouth. Good, now close you mouth. Perfect, now lower your phone thirty degree. Great, now lower it thirty degrees more. Almost there! Now lower thirty more degrees and put it the fuck away in your pocket.

Congratulations, you now have the perfect selfie.

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UltraBlack 3 points a year ago

Love this

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shalafi 6 points a year ago

I like that the 7 second limit forces creativity. We shall see where this goes. Bet uploaded videos just get posted to more popular sites.

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DragonTypeWyvern 3 points a year ago

Or simplicity and reductive thought

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shalafi 2 points a year ago

Not it you want something impactful. Creativity and editing are tough to pack into 7 seconds.

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Maeve 5 points a year ago

Jack Dorsey can kick rocks.

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Brunbrun6766 6 points a year ago

Jack Dorsey 🤢

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toiletobserver 3 points a year ago path: 0 20481445, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
LainTrain 2 points a year ago path: 0 20483087, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
sturmblast 1 point a year ago
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DarthAstrius 1 point a year ago

Rare Dorsey W

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dil 1 point a year ago

Fine with this, want a tiktok alt and loops went nowhere

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dil 3 points a year ago

Guess it got an update and you can maybe self host now, idk no marketing budget = nothing federated is taking off, shorts platforms need ppl

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Kolanaki 1 point a year ago

Is it dead or not?

I haven't been able to log in for a few weeks. I thought they killed the project.

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dil 1 point a year ago

Need to get a new testflight if on iphone it has an update, but yeah its still mediocre and kinda pointless to post with the compression and lack of users

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Cheems 2 points a year ago

Forgot about loops.

It was kinda clunky

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mlg -3 points a year ago

Jack Dorsey

Go back to sleep, dude has jumped on every consumer trend ever since he left Twitter. AI content is not even a core issue of current social media platforms, despite its overwhelming popularity and loads of posts.

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mrdown -3 points a year ago

6 seconds vids. What a joke

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y0kai 9 points a year ago

Lol the original vine is still my favorite dead platform. The comedy you can produce in 6 seconds is great.

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boonhet 4 points a year ago

It forces creativity, and sudden endings to things can be funny. I think it's a better format than the long-ass "shorts" on YT or TikTok for short-form video content. Make it 6 seconds or make it 30 minutes.

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chrash0 -9 points a year ago

it’s already the case that the distinction between what’s “AI” and what isn’t is a subjective, aesthetic difference and not a technical one

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Chronographs 5 points a year ago

Detecting it is difficult but what actually is or isn’t AI should be pretty cut and dry. Either nothing completely generated, or no footage edited using generative ai (depending on how strict you want to be with your ban)

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chrash0 3 points a year ago

what about the neural networks that power the DSP modules in all modern cell phones cameras? does a neural network filter that generates a 3D mesh or rather imposes a 3D projection, eg putting dog ears on yourself or Memojis, count? what if i record a real video and have Gemini/Veo/whatever edit the white balance? i don’t think it’s as cut and dry as most people think

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jwmgregory 2 points a year ago

most people, unfortunately, don’t seem to think when they see the letters ‘A’ and ‘I’… these people probably would burn sage at the sight of the identity matrix lol.

i think you’re probably wasting your breath here but you seem like you might be cool, so if you’re interested in discussing ML at all reach out fs!

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Chronographs 0 points a year ago

Every single one of those I’d put under the second category. It’d be hard to detect but it’s certainly not subjective. It just depends on how it’s written.

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chrash0 2 points a year ago

but what are the criteria? just because you think you have a handle on it doesn’t mean everyone else does or even shares your conclusion. and there’s no metric here i can measure, to for example block it from my platform.

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jwmgregory 0 points a year ago

hard to detect

certainly not subjective

just depends on how it’s written

i'm fucking dead you have to be taking the piss lmfao

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