Temporary Changes to our Sign-Up Policy

3 years ago by lwadmin to c/lemmyworld

Lemmy.world is temporarily disabling open signups and moving to an application-required signup process, due to ongoing issues with malicious bot accounts.

We know this is a major step to take, but we believe that it’s the right one for both us and our community right now.

We’re working on a better long-term technical solution to these bots, but that will take time to create, test, and verify that it doesn’t cause any problems with federation and how our users use our site, and we’d rather make sure we get it right than have a site that’s broken.

We’re making this change on 28 Aug 2023, and don’t have a specific timeline for how long registrations will require an application, but we will post an update once our new anti-abuse measures are in place and working.

Take care, LW Team

devious 267 points 3 years ago

You gotta do, what you gotta do!

Thanks as always for the hard work and transparency.

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lwadmin 118 points 3 years ago

Thank you for the kindness!

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GONADS125 32 points 3 years ago

I hope you guys are doing okay having to see all that shit.. No shame in reaching out to mental health professionals. Makes me sad imagining you guys picking up emotional baggage and trauma having to see all that to protect the community.

I appreciate you guys looking out for us, but I hope you all have proper support yourselves.

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Ab_intra 9 points 3 years ago

That's a good point. Jesus.

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drbi 15 points 3 years ago

I am loving the transparency.

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FlyingSquid 179 points 3 years ago

Whew, I'm glad I got in before this or my fellow homo sapiens might not have noticed I was also a fellow homo sapiens like them and definitely not a robot.

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hemmes 41 points 3 years ago

You’re clearly a Mollusc

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FlyingSquid 34 points 3 years ago

How dare you! I am no mere mollusc, I am a proud Todarodes pacificus and definitely not a robot squid.

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Dienes 27 points 3 years ago

OK BUT WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING

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FlyingSquid 31 points 3 years ago

I had a nightmare about electric sheep. Don't we all?

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Aliendelarge 5 points 3 years ago

What did you do to the turtle?

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HelloHotel 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 2883655 2886391 2887632 2937331, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
PipedLinkBot 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 2883655 2886391 2887632 2937331 2937337, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
TheLobotomist 15 points 3 years ago

T0TALL¥N0TR0B0T$

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RightHandOfIkaros 6 points 3 years ago

Yes, I agree with my fellow homo sapiens as well.

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the_robomafia 5 points 3 years ago

Yes, optimal timing indeed.

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HelloHotel 1 point 3 years ago

I cannot be glad for things, i have not been tamed

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kadu 146 points 3 years ago

No place is safe from this, unfortunately. I moderated 2 big brazilian subreddits, and then decided to volunteer to help a smaller one. I had a day (and to be honest, an entire week) absolutely ruined when somebody did indeed set a bot to post large amounts of CSAM to the subreddit. Luckily I was online to quickly purge it all, and Reddit's admins did remove the accounts pretty much instantly, but I feel for every Lemmy admin that even caught a glimpse of this material and now have to purge their computers and honestly, their minds, from that. Sorry to hear it happened.

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Kethal 42 points 3 years ago

Two brazilian sounds like a lot.

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Paranoidfactoid -2 points 3 years ago

He wasn't talking about a pube wax.

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snausagesinablanket 22 points 3 years ago

CSAM

I just looked up this acronym and am sorry I did.

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not_that_guy05 18 points 3 years ago

Same but not sorry. I always called it CP but I guess this is more of a straight forward name.

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KairuByte 23 points 3 years ago

Yeah, the term CP (Child Porn) has always been a terrible name for it. It sounds weird, but "Child Porn" sounds much less dramatic than it is, like some sort of fringe porn. Meanwhile CSAM (Child Sexual Abuse Material) make it a lot more clear that there is a child being abused.

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ericisshort 15 points 3 years ago

Same, and to make sure no one else has to have it in their search history, CSAM stands for “Child Sexual Abuse Material.”

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Ab_intra 13 points 3 years ago

I saw one of these videos in my feed last night and it was very obvious to me what it was. Thankfully it wasn't anything that was to bad, but It still gives me the creep that something like that was in my feed.

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input 130 points 3 years ago

Hope it restricts the attack surface, why do people have to be such knobs

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pretzelz 118 points 3 years ago

Not wanting to be too conspiratorial, but it isn't necessarily people simply doing this out of the badness of their hearts. The fediverse is a disruptive platform and there are many parties with deep pockets that might happily funnel a little bit of cash to certain consultancies in certain countries to stop things and add friction to this platform before it really takes off. Nothing like a little bit of corporate sabotage!

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Pregnenolone 59 points 3 years ago

That sounds exactly like the badness in people’s hearts though.

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psycho_driver 10 points 3 years ago

The corporate types behind such actions aren't people.

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SulaymanF 0 points 3 years ago

Such a Rick thing to say.

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foggy -2 points 3 years ago

Dehumanization is how we got here.

Not a great way back? Unless you're looking to go in circles.

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Aux 41 points 3 years ago

This is a very silly conspiracy theory. Big corps don't give a shit about Lemmy, but there are plenty of script kiddies who want to hack easy targets. Contrary to your belief, there are plenty of dumb idiots with plenty of badness in their hearts.

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520 19 points 3 years ago

Big corps are more sociopathic than you realise. There are so many underhanded games going on at that level it will make your head spin.

Big businesses indirectly and sometimes directly fund APT groups. They will buy things that give them anonymous access to competitor trade secrets, or fund attack campaigns against competitors. This sounds like the kind of attack campaign a competitor might launch as part of a one-two combo. This is the first part, the second part is to get editorials out there regarding how lemmy.world is full of CSAM.

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pjhenry1216 18 points 3 years ago

Nah. The risk greatly outweighs the reward. Even if this hits the news, I doubt it'd affect numbers on here that much, especially since it's not that big. It's not even big enough to cause issues for "competitors" (and I use the term lightly). The fediverse is simply not really ready to compete with established actors. So the "benefit" is quite small. The risk if they're caught includes executives getting jail time and likely irreversible harm to their brand.

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bemenaker 6 points 3 years ago

No way would a company risk being caught being responsible for CP. That would cause a massive backlash in the US socially, and the legal troubles would be huge. And the stock market would also very painfully punish them.

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Aux -9 points 3 years ago

No one cares about Lemmy. Grow up.

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givesomefucks 35 points 3 years ago

The alt right instance has been fucking with world since they were defederated...

This is something right up their alley, so the simplest solution is they're doing it.

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Steeve 25 points 3 years ago

Come on people, Lemmy's user base is what, a few hundred thousand? A million tops? Which "parties with deep pockets" is this disrupting? The Lemmy userbase is a rounding error on the number of users of other popular social medias.

"Don't want to be too conspiratorial, but let me continue to drop a ridiculous conspiracy with no evidence"

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Grabbels 12 points 3 years ago

And big corp wants to smother it before it’s bigger. It perfectly makes sense. It’s so much more difficult to kill a service/movement when it’s already widely adopted and popular. Identifying small, new players in the field and disrupting those takes very few resources for them, a rounding error, if you will.

The fediverse has the potential to be a threat to some big corps out there, and Lemmy is just one speck in a sea of a lot of specks. Together those specks are growing the fediverse, and the only way to disrupt it is to get rid of those specks.

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Steeve 7 points 3 years ago

You're delusional if you think the Fediverse, a totally open protocol that "competitors" can (and plan to) join instead of having to "defeat", poses a threat big enough to corporations with hundreds of millions or even billions of users to warrant the spamming of child porn.

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Ensign_Crab 7 points 3 years ago

Not from a big corporation, no. It's probably 4chan types. They tend to get deeply offended when people don't want nazis around.

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PP_BOY_ 2 points 3 years ago

IIRC there was a post a few weeks ago that had the total number of active accounts somewhere around 60,000. Yeah, we're definitely not big enough to attract that kind of directed attack

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maegul 16 points 3 years ago

I like conspiracy theories as much as the next person. But let's be real for a moment ... this is shitty people doing shitty things. In part because Lemmy is a vulnerable and maybe relatively easy target by being indie software with indie instance management and relatively young. They might have a general purpose, such as being alt-right and defederated. But at it's core, I think it's gotta be just the "pleasure" they get out of breaking someone else's shit ... these people exist, we know they exist.

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PsychedSy 5 points 3 years ago

Eh. It's a new platform with new instances and a lot of potential attack vectors. With new users it's becoming a valid target for them.

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T156 5 points 3 years ago

No, Lemmy is nowhere near big enough for that. If it was, it would be simply bought out by one of those companies, and then shut it down, like with XMPP. They have no rhyme or reason to skulk around in the shadows.

In its current state, it is still very much in its infancy. A company would see more threat in the competing social networks trying to copy their model, or people just leaving outright than Lemmy for the time being. Mastodon would be more of a threat by comparison.

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Colorcodedresistor 5 points 3 years ago
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BitOneZero 3 points 3 years ago

Nothing like a little bit of corporate sabotage!

The software developers who created Lemmy openly criticize systems of government and economics. These are nation-state battlegrounds too. The barrier to entrance is very low, as Lemmy doesn't even do routine tracking of account creation, rate-limiting alone isn't really defensive. 15 years ago sites like Reddit had major vote manipulation detection logic behind the scenes. This is pretty much unleashed playground for a lot of known tactics.

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ekZepp 2 points 3 years ago

With the American election next year and all the chaos on sXitter, no unlikely.

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solrize 1 point 3 years ago
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CookieJarObserver 85 points 3 years ago
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NPC 86 points 3 years ago
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hemmes 32 points 3 years ago

I have not seen any of that and I sort by All.

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JohnDClay 5 points 3 years ago

With nsfw on? I do as well, but I usually have nsfw off

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jeffw 11 points 3 years ago

It wasn’t marked NSFW…

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lemann 24 points 3 years ago

Not long after joining Lemmy, I was on the less fortunate side of things and ran into a troll post. I haven't seen any of that horrid stuff on Lemmy since then, I assume the admins and mods have been dealing with it first hand... ☹️ hope they are OK, it isn't good for anyone mentally.

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The_Picard_Maneuver 4 points 3 years ago

Same, and I'm on all the time.

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Axisential 60 points 3 years ago

Oh Christ, really? That's just sickening. I often sort by new, sounds like I've been very lucky to miss it entirely...

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CookieJarObserver 17 points 3 years ago
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SupraMario 13 points 3 years ago

I'm guessing they're not even flagging that shit as NSFW? I've been using liftoff and have the NSFW stuff hidden. I haven't run into of it yet but that's fucked up, hopefully it gets under control with this.

Maybe mods of each section can turn on manual approvals of submissions?

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CookieJarObserver 14 points 3 years ago
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Lakija 55 points 3 years ago

Are you serious? Holy shit. I haven’t seen any at all. But just the thought that someone is posting it. I hate people sometimes.

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DoomBot5 8 points 3 years ago

Big incident last night

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Astrealix 81 points 3 years ago

Looks like even this place couldn't keep it up. Unfortunate. Thanks admins for the transparency though.

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DelvianSeek 70 points 3 years ago

Good call. Thank you for doing what you need to do to support the site and protect the users as necessary. And as always, the honesty and transparency is appreciated.

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infyrin 69 points 3 years ago
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ObviouslyNotBanana 63 points 3 years ago

I think it's the right call honestly. We've grown so quick that it must be hard to manage by now.

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007v2 53 points 3 years ago

Thanks for all the work you do! It isn’t unappreciated.

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GlitzyArmrest 51 points 3 years ago

Hope it helps with the recent abuse.

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Dark_Arc 48 points 3 years ago path: 0 2891557, hotness: undefined, score: 48, children: 0
scarabic 42 points 3 years ago

If you could give me the numbers of new accounts monthly I would look into CloudFlare. If I can afford it I will even pay for it.

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pm_boobs_send_nudes 37 points 3 years ago

I don't blame you for taking that decision. But it's sad that this will deter legitimate users away, some of whom would've signed up otherwise.

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clueless_stoner 48 points 3 years ago
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YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU 11 points 3 years ago

Detered != Unable

path: 0 2880845 2880867 2883722, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 2
pexavc -4 points 3 years ago

(deter | | unable) != good

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pexavc 1 point 3 years ago
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TheGreatFox 8 points 3 years ago

For me at least, lack of open sign ups immediately makes me not join an instance. It's why I didn't join lemmy the first few times I saw it talked about on reddit, when the main instance was lemmy.ml.

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pjhenry1216 13 points 3 years ago

It's simply a delay in activation. The signups are virtually identical with one added question stating you read the note which is the same as the one above in the post.

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ConstipatedWatson 33 points 3 years ago

I guess I'm out of the loop, perhaps because I mostly browse communities I subscribed to, but...

What happened? Lots of spammy bots signing up and spamming the site? I guess I didn't notice where I was looking

Also, what does application based sign up mean?

Anyhow, Lemmy.World and Lemmy (in general) are growing nicely, so what's needed to defend them is cool.

Edit: fixed grammar

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Nerd02 61 points 3 years ago

Troll / spam accounts posted CSAM in !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world. That spread with federation and every admin ended up involuntarily hosting such content.

Application based sign up means that if a user wants to subscribe they have to fill out a form and a .world admin gets to review it and approve or reject their sign up. It's a measure of controlling who gets in and limiting the amount of bots and possibly troll that join an instance.

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pjhenry1216 27 points 3 years ago

To make it clear, the form is virtually the same as before with one additional question. It just asks you to state you read the note that is the same as the note in the post above. The application is virtually identical beyond that. But, the biggest difference, is like you said, an admin needs to approve it.

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The_Picard_Maneuver 30 points 3 years ago

Is image posting temporarily turned off for lemmy.world users too?

Since last night, I've been unable to post (tested in memes@lemmy.world, memes@lemmy.ml, and lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world). Switched to an alt account on a different instance and had no issue.

(getting JSON error: unexpected character at line 1 column 1)

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Maven 15 points 3 years ago

I'm also having this issue.

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band_on_the_run 9 points 3 years ago
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The_Picard_Maneuver 6 points 3 years ago

Oh that's how you're doing it! I was looking for any lemmy.world posts in my feed to see if I was alone with this issue, and I almost messaged you to see how you got it to work. Lol

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TheGoldenGod 10 points 3 years ago

Looks like lemmyshitpost is down at the moment. 🤔

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Alchemy 2 points 3 years ago

Im getting this same error roughly a day later from your post. On both mobile and desktop.

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The_Picard_Maneuver 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I know they're busy trying to figure out how to deal with the attacks, so no pressure on them to restore it immediately. I just made an alt account yesterday and will post from there for a bit until this gets sorted.

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Alchemy 2 points 3 years ago

Have you seen it mentioned anywhere why lemmyshitpost was the targeted community?

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The_Picard_Maneuver 2 points 3 years ago

Nope, but I browse by All a lot and would guess that it was the most active comm on lemmy.world by good margin. They're definitely targeting lemmy.world and trying to disrupt it.

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TropicalDingdong 26 points 3 years ago

I vote for tribunals.

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figaro 8 points 3 years ago

Sounds like something a bot would say! Off with his head!

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Candelestine 23 points 3 years ago

Glad to hear. Obviously this is less than ideal, but working towards solutions is what's important.

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teruma 20 points 3 years ago

Will this make it easier to reopen federation with instances that were concerned about abuse of our open sign up policy? (or was the issue with beehaw resolved while I wasn't looking?)

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KairuByte 22 points 3 years ago

If it's temporary, likely not. The concern from most of the instances is that open subs mean literally anyone and anything can join, including bots which create account after account, just moving on when the original is banned. "We are closing open signups for now" is non committal, I'm betting the only way things get refederated is if World commits to this change for the long term.

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nantsuu 17 points 3 years ago

Does this mean Beehaw will refederate?

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gk99 37 points 3 years ago

Considering this is a temporary measure, I imagine not. Lemmy.world has been under constant attacks as the #1 Lemmy instance and it's not going to stop just because bots can't get in automatically anymore.

path: 0 2884488 2884620, hotness: undefined, score: 37, children: 0
Piers 8 points 3 years ago

It's a good question. Hopefully the Beehaw admin team will reach out to the Lemmy.World admin team to have a discussion about exactly what the LW admins are trying to achieve and under what conditions they will be ready to reopen submissions. Though even if they do have that conversation there's no guarantee that that will match up with what the Beehaw admins are looking for in order to refederate. It was made clear from the Beehaw admins at the time though that they didn't have any issues with LW in general, only that toxic disruptive people were using the open sign-up of LW to create accounts to go cause trouble over at Beehaw (outside of the general LW userbase) and that they hoped to refederate once better tools were in place to address those disruptive users. Could be that lines up pretty well with LW's goal to wait until they have better tools to address malicious bot accounts before they reopen signups.

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RightHandOfIkaros 4 points 3 years ago

Considering the people that run Beehaw and their very fast defederation, I can't imagine that their statement of wanting to refederate is anything other than a mere pleasantry. I doubt they really want to.

And its fine, small communities are easier to manage. Its not like we are really missing out on much.

path: 0 2884488 2899382, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
Anonymousllama 16 points 3 years ago

Better to semi restrict sign ups so the experience is improved for everyone. When those security issues have been fixed we can open up again. Seems fair

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NekoKamiGuru 16 points 3 years ago

As long as users from allied instances can still post it is all good.

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khalic 15 points 3 years ago
path: 0 2891202, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0
amenotef 15 points 3 years ago

Beep Beep. Thank you for the update.

path: 0 2906793, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 3
funkmunki 8 points 3 years ago

Beep boop beep. Hello fellow human.

path: 0 2906793 2920009, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1
HelloHotel 2 points 3 years ago

Hi humans, wich way to the likely scam victems.

I will give them head patts and a free mini fridge.

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HelloHotel 3 points 3 years ago

I cannot be thankful, i have not been tamed

path: 0 2906793 2937137, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Rentlar 12 points 3 years ago

Lemmy.world users were mostly upset 2 months ago about how other Lemmy servers had application based registration and that made it bad for widespread adoption.

Incidents like this are part of why this is a bad idea. Hopefully mitigations to maliciously posted illegal content can be implemented to help Lemmy server admins big and small.

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MBM 3 points 3 years ago

People make these applications seem like a much bigger deal than they are. You don't need to fill out an essay or anything, just a sentence or two to reassure the server owner that you're a normal person. I just mentioned the old Lemmy account I was moving away from. I get that it's a barrier for some though.

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LunchEnjoyer 8 points 3 years ago

Very understandable, keep up the work!

path: 0 2880879, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
jennwiththesea 8 points 3 years ago

Bummer, but I hope you can find a solution soon! What a PITA for you all.

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markovianparallax 7 points 3 years ago
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KrisND 6 points 3 years ago

Sounds like a plan! It's a 100% beneficial thing, it should clean it up a bit.

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Ab_intra 5 points 3 years ago

Good. If this is what it takes to overcome the issue then it's fine. Sucks for the real users but they also have alternatives.

path: 0 2880788, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 4
clueless_stoner 24 points 3 years ago
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Whitehat93875 1 point 3 years ago

Wait I noticed that there's an image button in the application form, is there any risk that that might be abused by users passing by to upload to pictrs in registrations without an account? That could be a big problem if they could.

path: 0 2880788 2880812 2915343, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 2
lazycouchpotato 2 points 3 years ago

Tested it in an incognito tab. It seems to be disabled. Clicking the button does nothing for me.

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Whitehat93875 1 point 3 years ago

That's good then, was worried for a sec that people could upload images without having an account, that would be very bad and make these kind of attacks insanely easy.

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Blaze 2 points 3 years ago

Thank you!

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lwadmin 0 points 3 years ago

Update: we opened registrations again but temporary email addresses will still be banned.

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MargotRobbie -2 points 3 years ago

I'm actually advocating for something in between: having a open registration weekend on a set time every month, and registration applications the rest of the time.

It solves both problem of having too many applications to deal with, and makes it a lot harder to create spam accounts since the time surface is reduced significantly.

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cyberpunk007 5 points 3 years ago

Then bot creators would just.... Use the open signup window and regular users get the shaft.

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MargotRobbie 2 points 3 years ago

It's easier to monitor for suspicious bit signup activities when you funnel them into a small time window with full attention during that time frame, instead of having to watch for them 24/7.

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cyberpunk007 1 point 3 years ago

Can you explain? It's likely not a human validating hundreds of not thousands of signups anyway.

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Echo71Niner -7 points 3 years ago

There are too many posts on this site linking back to reddit.

You guys need to program reddit URL in your site code to have it blocked from being posted, make it scramble url or block it.

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QuentinCallaghan -7 points 3 years ago

IMO registration applications should have been in use right from the start. Less annoyances for admins and moderators.

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CookieJarObserver 31 points 3 years ago
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antik 35 points 3 years ago

Indeed. This is a lot more work.

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Durotar 14 points 3 years ago

I wouldn't put the manual review of thousands of application into the "less annoyances" box.

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Rentlar 2 points 3 years ago

Absolutely agreed. Similar to waiting periods for weapons purchases. It would be an effective filter for most people who get in the mood of making a troll post, they would get tired of it before they are approved, and many users with hateful names would be disallowed before they can start posting their hate.

::: spoiler Example of hateful user @lgbtslayer@lemmy.world being the quintessential example that pushed Beehaw to defederate from LW, after that user posted anti-lgbt and misogynist stuff directly into Beehaw's lgbtq+ community :::

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Aux -8 points 3 years ago

No, applications are a very degrading process for both users and admins.

path: 0 2882420 2882776, hotness: undefined, score: -8, children: 4
pjhenry1216 15 points 3 years ago

I agree it's annoying and hopefully will one day soon not be necessary, but "degrading" is something I don't think ever occurred to me. Is there some aspect to having to get manually approved that is degrading that I'm not aware of?

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Aux 1 point 3 years ago

I never use services which require an application. First of all, that's a bad user experience. Second, it's enough to write some bullshit during job applications.

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pjhenry1216 10 points 3 years ago

The application is a question asking if you read the statement (which is the same as the post above).

The rest of the application is the same application you had to fill out when you created the account even when it was open sign ups. The only real difference is it's not automatically accepted but manually accepted.

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TimewornTraveler 8 points 3 years ago

degrading?

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Jok3r -10 points 3 years ago

Oh shut up

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Machefi -16 points 3 years ago
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antik 38 points 3 years ago

Yes but when people start creating accounts to post CSAM it doesn't leave us much choice.

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Machefi -20 points 3 years ago
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pjhenry1216 19 points 3 years ago

Because they're not trying to make a big deal about how easily CSAM spread throughout federated instances making all hosts possibly legally liable. Instances in the US are probably ok, due to various laws like safe harbor for platform providers but with instances all over the world, they all have their own laws to contend with and many never expected this

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pexavc 17 points 3 years ago

It’s really not that hard to connect the dots… Unless you’re trying to impose a question for the sake of

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Machefi -26 points 3 years ago
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Chickenstalker -17 points 3 years ago

I approve because I'm a hipster and as a senpai I like to shit on newb kouhai.

path: 0 2890890, hotness: undefined, score: -17, children: 1
EFZL5NM0 11 points 3 years ago

Yikes

path: 0 2890890 2891507, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
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