The Matrix

24 days ago by stenAanden to c/lemmyshitpost

lime 111 points 24 days ago

you know you can't resist those eyes

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aeronmelon 50 points 24 days ago

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Cosmonauticus 91 points 24 days ago

The Matrix hits different once you realize everything was humanity’s fault

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lime 127 points 24 days ago

" hits different once you listen to what the characters say" is truly a take

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SoupBrick 96 points 24 days ago

Let people grow, man.

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lime 73 points 24 days ago

fair actually

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farngis_mcgiles 59 points 24 days ago

if you know something i don't you are a nerd and if you don't know something i know then you are an idiot

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jaybone 33 points 24 days ago

Whatever, nerd.

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lime 11 points 24 days ago

objectively correct, making everyone simultaneously a nerd and an idiot, which cancels out.

except santa, the fucken nerd

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rishado 1 point 23 days ago

Letting people call you out on online forums is a part of growth, it was for me and I feel like it was for many of us

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Cosmonauticus 29 points 24 days ago

Was referring to the Animatrix 1st and 2nd Renaissance genius.

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idiomaddict 29 points 24 days ago

Damn, they accused you of not paying attention and then you brought out the deep lore

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lime 16 points 24 days ago

i've seen animatrix but it's also, like, in the original

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Cosmonauticus 21 points 24 days ago

Morpheus literally says they dont know who striked first. The Matrix doesnt mention anything about how or why the war started. Just that it started. The Animatrix tells you that the war started because the robot capital had basically destroyed the global economy so humans tried to wipe them out

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HeHoXa 6 points 24 days ago

Fight Club really hits different when you realize the main character is Tyler Durden

Avatar really hits different when you realize the Navi are just defending themselves.

Indiana Jones really hits different when you realize the bad guys are Nazis.

Jurassic park really hits different when you realize John Hammond ignored all the warnings.

John Wick really hits different when you realize they killed his dog.

Star Wars really hits different when you realize the chosen one bringing balance meant revitalizing the dark side.

... Old men like me don't bother with making points. There's no point.

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Hudell 3 points 22 days ago

There's two ways to consume any content. Sometimes Moby Dick is just a whale and Matrix is a movie about a guy who learns to fight really fast.

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lime 3 points 24 days ago

the santa clause really hits different when you realise the title refers to the rule, not the person

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reptar 1 point 22 days ago

Ohhhhhhh

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marcos 2 points 24 days ago

They don't say that in the first movie.

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lime 7 points 24 days ago

not explicitly in a line, but the whole "scorched the sky" monologue is pretty damning of humanity.

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stickyprimer 23 points 24 days ago

It’s been said a million times that the human battery thing makes no sense in terms of energy production. But the other huge sin the Matrix commits is having humans block out the sun so robots can’t get solar power. That is ridiculously stupid. Humans need to grow crops. I rest my case. It’s stupid. I love these movies, but that part is just plain stupid.

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Macchi_the_Slime 26 points 24 days ago

There's conflicting stories about it so it's hard to verify, but apparently the battery thing was a rewrite.

Apparently originally the people plugged into the matrix were meant to be the very hardware the matrix was run on. As in all their brains together formed a literal neural network that provided the processing power to run the matrix. This is then why knowing it's not real and believing you can do "the impossible" within the matrix can cause you to be able to bend reality. The story goes that executives thought it was too high of a concept for audiences to grasp and demanded the change to the battery explanation to make it simpler to follow.

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sp3ctr4l 11 points 23 days ago

The fun part is that the inhabitants of Zion are, canonically, shown to have very incomplete information about the actual state of the world, their own history, how the machine civilization works.

Neo is told basically 'we think it is the year 2XXX, but really, we have no idea', in the first movie.

Without spoiling much... Morpheus is wrong about some things, some pretty important things.

Hell, so is the Architect and even the Oracle says that some things are beyond her ability to predict.

But anyway... its entirely possible that the battery explanation is just another thing that Morpheus, the broad understanding of Zion itself, is wrong about.

So this doesn't actually 'break' the canon at all.

In fact, I'd argue that it makes the idea of 'free your mind' even more interesting and complex.

Even the truthseekers and truthtellers... can be wrong.

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JcbAzPx 9 points 24 days ago

Yeah, it was changed because someone thought that the explanation scene wouldn't work if they were holding up a CPU. They forced them to use a battery instead, forever ruining the backstory.

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TheEighthDoctor 3 points 23 days ago path: 0 23999624 24004272 24005426 24006340, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
Schmoo 17 points 23 days ago

*W. Sisters now.

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Macchi_the_Slime 1 point 23 days ago

I'd never heard Neil Gaiman as the origin of that theory. I'd always heard it came from commentary on the DVDs myself. I just don't own the films. But I guess that'd be the conflicting stories bit right?

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stickyprimer 1 point 23 days ago

I’ve heard this too, but even this has an issue. It’s circular. Why imprison humans so their brains can be used to run the matrix which is designed to imprison them?

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Jyek 13 points 23 days ago

Presumably the brain network was performing more than the task of simulation. I.E performing processing tasks for the machines. More humans = more brains = more processing headroom (ha, clever) for more machines.

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Macchi_the_Slime 4 points 23 days ago

i mean they kind of go into that in the movies don't they? The machines didn't want to completely destroy humanity. So they tried to create the matrix as "The Perfect Prison" for them. Using their own minds to create the very prison to hold them in would fit right into that wouldn't it?

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Folstar 9 points 24 days ago

Yeah, humans would never destroy natural resources in favor of some tech fix or just kinda assume that the planet would fix itself... /s

My headcannon on the human battery thing is that the machines have core programming to make reasonable efforts to preserve human life. Designing power reactors (look how thick the cores are on the towers) with humans slapped to the side technically aligns with the core programming while allowing them to stick it to us apes. It's also why the attack on Zion was one tentacle abductor machine for each human instead of dumping super plague down the hole and calling it a day.

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plutopos 6 points 23 days ago

the trans allegory kicks ass so we can ignore an inconsistency or two

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rumba 1 point 22 days ago

We fucked up, but it wasn't because we blackend the sky,

Humans made the machines

Machines failed enslave us properly :)

We failed to put in proper safeguards and failed to make the machines good enough to either wipe us out or contain us with proper safeguards :)

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skisnow 87 points 24 days ago

yeah I mean that was one of the themes explored in the film

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Zombie 68 points 24 days ago path: 0 24000093, hotness: undefined, score: 68, children: 5
stenAanden 35 points 24 days ago

A flying octopus drone has been sent to your location

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Flower 16 points 24 days ago

Just a few extra arms needed

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PrimeMinisterKeyes 2 points 23 days ago


Hoth calling

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brbposting 2 points 23 days ago

What is my purpose?

You move chairs

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prole 14 points 24 days ago

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Grail 65 points 24 days ago

The Matrix is a trans allegory. Living in a cave and eating slop is an allegory for being fired because of transphobia.

Still worth it.

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toofpic 34 points 24 days ago

The Matrix is a Rambo 3 remake. Living in a cave and eating slop is an allegory for shooting explosive arrows into a bridge.

Still worth it.

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hakunawazo 13 points 24 days ago

Yeah, but what is the blue pill for?

It lights blue.

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queermunist 10 points 24 days ago

I've heard this, but, my estradiol is a blue pill? 🤔

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hildegarde 27 points 24 days ago

Big pharma ruined the metaphor by changing the pill colors.

The blue pill was an antidepressant, the red pill was estrogen.

Also the main villian is a man in a suit who constantly deadnames the protagonist. The matrix is real life.

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queermunist 6 points 23 days ago

I wonder if they did it intentionally.

Changing the pill from red to blue basically cost them nothing and served no purpose, but just so happened to ruin the metaphor.

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hovercat 13 points 24 days ago

At the time they were red.

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merc 5 points 23 days ago

It can be interpreted that way. That doesn't mean that anybody who doesn't see it that way is wrong.

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Earthman_Jim 3 points 24 days ago

Its an allegory for the social matrix we all find ourselves in.

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Grail 3 points 23 days ago

It's an allegory for the fact that through their control of the media, the rich can construct whatever reality they want in the minds of the masses.

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Earthman_Jim 2 points 21 days ago

Indeed.

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward Bernays, Propaganda

We are controlled through encouraged habits.

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Grail 2 points 21 days ago

I submit that the only antidote to propaganda which is capable of curing whole societies, is the conscious manipulation of one's own beliefs and perceptions. We must abandon the desire for objective reality, and instead become masters of our personal unrealities. Great responsibility can only be fulfilled with great power. We must become better than we are. We must take hold of the power of unreality for ourselves.

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4am 60 points 24 days ago

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thebasementcakes 54 points 24 days ago

Red pill side effects include cave raves, bad clothes, and new zionism

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Kolanaki 44 points 24 days ago

Wake up from your shitty fake life into the real world that's even worse.

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idiomaddict 19 points 24 days ago

Yeah, but what kind of amateur hour distraction fantasy would be worse than real life?

Other than 40k, I mean.

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ivanafterall 14 points 24 days ago

Sometimes I worry about 40k fans. Like "most times I hear about it."

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Kolanaki 4 points 23 days ago

Same with Fallout fans who are a bit too into the Brotherhood of Steel. "What is it you like about them, exactly? The power armor or the xenophobia?"

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jaybone 5 points 24 days ago

Why wouldn’t they have made the simulation awesome for everyone? Of course if you make it shitty some people might start to wonder about battery pod life in the cave.

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Coconut1233 29 points 24 days ago

Iirc in the first movie they say that the 1st version of the matrix was utopia, but the people got bored and rejected the world

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jaybone 3 points 24 days ago

That sounds like some capitalist propaganda.

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idiomaddict 5 points 24 days ago

If there’s no struggle, people will get bored enough to ask questions or adventurous enough to strain the program.

Or it’s a plothole. I might have seen the matrix twice, and don’t know how tightly designed it is.

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boonhet 4 points 24 days ago

It was explained as the first basically in the movie

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stickyprimer 16 points 24 days ago

Yes well it’s an explicit theme of the movie that for better or worse, real is real and fake is fake and there’s no substitute for the truth, however grim it is.

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TankovayaDiviziya 9 points 24 days ago

It's escapism versus reality. I didn't think The Matrix is far more nuanced than I initially realised.

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ironycanal 2 points 23 days ago

There's definitely more tear gas.

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Thebeardedsinglemalt 1 point 24 days ago

It's not about the better option, it's which one is least worst

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Kolanaki 1 point 23 days ago

So you choose The Matrix? 🤔

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merc 38 points 23 days ago

Neo decides that uncomfortable knowledge is better than blissful ignorance. I think most adults have had experiences where they wish they could go back to being less informed about the cruelty and brutality of the world and just live in ignorance, but most people don't get that choice.

Morpheus asks Neo if he wants to live in blissful ignorance (the way Cypher eventually decides to do) or if he wants to deal with the uncomfortable reality. Part of being a computer hacker is that quest for knowledge for no real gain despite the risks.

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wolframhydroxide 34 points 23 days ago

So, as Cypher made clear, the main draw of the matrix was that he didn't have to spend his entire life being miserable, with shit to eat, and nothing enjoyable to do. Soo... What about the constructs? If they could simulate people and sensory input with enough fidelity to "learn kungfu", couldn't they simulate the experience of a juicy steak? Why, when they weren't actually spending their time outside the matrix doing much other than sitting in a spaceship, wouldn't they just spend 6 hours a day in the construct (again, not the matrix, their own simulated construct)? Wouldn't that have given them all much more practice with breaking the construct of the matrix, and also let them have the nice stuff that the matrix offered, and also knowing that they were the masters of their own destinies? It seems like Morpheus was just a shitty manager, and Cypher was unfulfilled in his job.

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BootyEnthusiast 18 points 23 days ago

Cypher explicitly states he doesn't want to remember ANYTHING.

Going into a construct doesn't remove your memories, so he KNOWS it's all fake, which means it doesn't carry any weight or meaning to it all.

Having his memory wiped is the only way.

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chronicledmonocle 8 points 23 days ago

Personally, I wouldn't give AF if it was "fake". Fake is perspective.

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Grail 2 points 23 days ago

Yeah, I'm an anarcho-antirealist. I believe reality is a perceptual construct, and I practice mental techniques to change My beliefs and perceptions in order to reconstruct My perceptual unreality into something more fair and just.

I still like a nice yummy meal. No steaks though, I'm vegan.

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wolframhydroxide 1 point 23 days ago

Here's a question: if you know the steak isn't real, having copied only your memory of it from the matrix, but you know that the original had to have been based on the experience of killing a real animal, is the nonexistent steak vegan? What if all cows are already extinct, like in the world of the Matrix?

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rumba 1 point 22 days ago

reading the news God, I wish it were fake. It would be so much more comforting.

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wolframhydroxide 5 points 23 days ago

A great point, but I wonder if it would have reached that point if cypher had been given relaxation time and good experiences in the construct from the start.

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PeriodicallyPedantic 4 points 23 days ago

Work life balance 🤣

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captain_aggravated 6 points 23 days ago

Mouse figured that out but Switch was a wet blanket.

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rumba 1 point 22 days ago

It's an excellent point, but that would only work for those awoken. The "genuine children of zion" have no ports.

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JcbAzPx 31 points 24 days ago

I remember his office from the movie. It was not comfy.

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WhiskyTangoFoxtrot 34 points 24 days ago

He had his own cubicle. Better than any of the "open plan" offices I spent years working in.

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jj4211 24 points 23 days ago

That's the fun part, in that time, cubicles were seen as terrible, dystopian, cheapass things because folks used to have offices, and how much cheaper could it really get than some flimsy modular furniture for you to sit at?

Then the companies gestured to just some tables in a room and said "figure it out, and no assigned seating, so just figure it out each day" to show how cheap and how little regard they have for the employees.

At this rate, I fully expect in the next few years for the next wave in office space optimization:

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PrimeMinisterKeyes 15 points 23 days ago

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rnkn 3 points 23 days ago

To be fair he doesn’t even have his monitor on.

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nightlily 13 points 23 days ago

I’ve worked in open plan offices my entire 20 year career and I yearn for the cheap fabric covered mines.

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rumba 2 points 22 days ago

Honestly, I kinda dig the open floor concept and small groups. those half-walls are bullshit. But I do LOVE having developers/ops/engineers/pm's close enough to ask each other occasional questions.

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synestia 4 points 22 days ago

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ironycanal 3 points 23 days ago

This was 1999; it was standard.

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TallonMetroid 21 points 23 days ago

...Did Neo have an active social life? Admittedly I haven't seen the movie in forever, but IIRC he didn't have much going on other than work and being a hacker.

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rnkn 20 points 23 days ago

He followed the white rabbit so he could stand in the corner of a rave.

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maltasoron 19 points 23 days ago

And then speaks to one girl and promptly falls in love with her.

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rumba 5 points 22 days ago

feels seen

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MyVeryRealName 5 points 23 days ago

Well, it definitely would have been easier to build an active social life than to take the red pill.

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 17 points 24 days ago

Yeah but at least I'm part of an armed resistance trying to win back their freedom.

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ironycanal -2 points 23 days ago

So terrorists. You're saying that's a good thing?

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ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 4 points 23 days ago

One person'S terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

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ironycanal 0 points 23 days ago

Nuh uh!

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horn_e4_beaver 16 points 23 days ago

You mean choosing whether to live with purpose or just continue to exist?

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ironycanal 5 points 23 days ago

You have never dated a punk. You have never been in love with anyone adapted to poverty who had any sense of adventure.

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horn_e4_beaver 4 points 23 days ago

You're an odd morpheus.

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sundray 16 points 24 days ago

If Zion lets me sleep in, then unplug me from the jelly-pod.

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razzazzika 8 points 24 days ago

Better than a soul crushing office job

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GeorgimusPrime 6 points 24 days ago path: 0 24000719, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 3
TIN 5 points 24 days ago

To counteract this, Morrison suggested a "wankathon" in the hope of bringing about a magical increase in sales by a mass of fans simultaneously masturbating at a set time.[3] Phil Jiminez taking over art duties, and a more conventional story style in volume 2, may have helped as well.

Cold Wikipedia article

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cyan_mess 3 points 24 days ago

The trans woman is named Lord Fanny and her focus chapter, fucking She-Man 😭

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TheBrideWoreCrimson 3 points 23 days ago

And before that, there was Fassbinder's World on a Wire, which features different characters, but parts of the premise - in particular, a simulated world with phones as connections to the "outside".
And this, in turn, has it's roots in a 1964 novel called Simulacron-3.

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6244901 6 points 23 days ago

neooooo

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vane 4 points 23 days ago

developer version

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PieMePlenty 4 points 24 days ago

Neo was powerful. I wonder if he could have gained the same abilities, without the help of Morpheus, throughout his time in the matrix. Were he able to do so, he could have lived a nice life inside. I guess Neo felt a higher calling to free mankind or something, so he left... or maybe Morpheus just didn't tell him the whole picture before offering the pill. Morpheus probably needed a powerful warrior and just rolled the dice on Neo, deciding to not exactly paint the whole picture.
Anyway.. had I known the whole picture, I'd have stayed inside.

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muzzle 12 points 23 days ago

Morpheus was just terrible at explaining. From xkcd

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merc 4 points 23 days ago

Morpheus says that line to Neo from within the Matrix. I think he's basically saying to Neo that if he just used words to explain it, Neo would never fully understand or believe it. Aside from his encounter with the agents, Neo has never apparently questioned whether he's actually living in reality or in a simulation.

Keep in mind that this is 1999 when the peak of computer graphics is Quake 3, Unreal Tournament and Crazy Taxi.

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Grail 4 points 23 days ago

On the other hand, Neo is a skilled hacker, deep in geek culture, and he feels the Matrix like a splinter in his mind, driving him mad.

Maybe Neo would have understood, but the audience wouldn't.

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merc 2 points 23 days ago

Yeah, so even if the simulated world has steak instead of goop and gives you a cushy office job, Neo is the kind of person who can't just accept not knowing.

It's not that he'll enjoy life in the real world more. It's that he can only truly understand if he gives up all these comforts to know the truth.

That also goes to the criticism that people (sometimes jokingly) have of The Matrix. That in 1999 Gen X was so spoiled that a steady, well-paying office job with a cubicle was so terrible that Neo tried to escape it. The reality was that in a sense his fatal character flaw was curiosity. His actions as a hacker drew the attention of the agents. When Morpheus gave him a choice, he gave up the comforts of good food, an easy and boring job, not being on the run all the time, etc. so that he could know the truth, because he just couldn't accept this simulated reality.

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ironycanal 6 points 23 days ago

Its a metaphor for a real philosophical movement that parallels the trans experience, and decision the writer/directors did make themselves.

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Grail 2 points 23 days ago

The gender binary literally rewrites our perceptions, causing us to perceive nonbinary people as male or female, unless we go through the effort to deprogram ourselves and take agency over our perceptions.

The Matrix wasn't a metaphor.

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plutopos 2 points 23 days ago

for me, it's the opposite. I don't mind living in a simulation if everyone else is a real thinking person, but I would've felt compelled to help give everyone the option to leave

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MousePotatoDoesStuff 3 points 22 days ago

Fun headcanon idea: Morpheus is perfectly capable of explaining the idea of the Matrix but he avoids it to avoid the inevitable "what's the outside like" question.

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DotairZee 3 points 22 days ago

but also the rave orgies.

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jobbies 3 points 23 days ago

Id rather stay in the matrix and pretend I'm eating steak, thank you very much.

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Grail 0 points 23 days ago

I'd rather have Neo's powers and be able to dream up a better world for Myself and My loved ones.

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plutopos 2 points 24 days ago

The Matrix would have been better if there had been a stronger incentive to leaving the Matrix. It's still a great film though.

Unlike its cheap imitations that miss the mark entirely (cough cough Persona 5 Royal)

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OhStopYellingAtMe 19 points 24 days ago

Star Trek had several episodes which touched on the idea, even if you build a perfect fake utopia, it’s still fake. And reality is ultimately better than a false life (for most people).

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db2 3 points 24 days ago

Red Dwarf did it better though.

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Grail 2 points 23 days ago

I think human beings have evolved to see a fake reality, because true reality is too complex for our minds to process and simplifying it saves on resources.

I think the desire for reality is a trap that will make you vulnerable to all sorts of cognitive biases. I think the rich have learned to use the desire for reality against us. I think the only way to be free is to choose to create our own unreality. I think through mental techniques to reshape our beliefs, we can achieve the power to break out of the capitalist mind prison.

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FooBarrington 17 points 24 days ago

But that would drastically change the message, no? People should choose to leave the Matrix because the reward is living in reality, even if it's harder and there's no other reward.

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prole 5 points 24 days ago

Persona 5 has it's issues, but it never once occurred to me that it had any similarities to The Matrix.

I mean, I guess thinking about it now I can see some parallels, but to call it a "cheap imitation" seems a little absurd. They're two entirely different stories

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plutopos 1 point 23 days ago

It's mostly the third semester plotline which imo is poorly written because, unlike the matrix, the villain has the power to actually rewrite reality. And yet, when the protagonists turn him good, he doesn't start using his powers for good, fixing injustice, giving everyone (not just the protagonists) the power to shape their own fate... no, he just stops using those powers. The altered world is presented as a 'false reality', like in matrix, even though it's clearly stated that it would eventually become real. It's as if they took the core idea of matrix but forgot the parts that made it work in the original story

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prole 1 point 23 days ago

Wasn't the third semester added on for P5Royal and not part of the main story?

Either way I don't really care that much

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plutopos 1 point 22 days ago

yeah that's why I said royal specifically

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solidheron 2 points 24 days ago

why have slop in reality when you can have steak in the matrix... whatever the Simpsons said.

exploring the matrix would be cool

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horn_e4_beaver 7 points 24 days ago

exploring the matrix would be cool

I hear it was based on the earth.

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