Does it seem like religious people are less animal friendly?
a month ago by bridgeenjoyer to c/asklemmy
I have been noting this more recently and it seems to be a trend, at least with people I converse with on the regular. The really religious types aren't animal people or downright dont like them. The more chill or agnostic types seem to be more apt to love animals.
I could go on my theory of this but I'm interested to see if anyone thinks this is a trend.
I basically came here to say this. Especially these days basically all good pet owners think of them as their children or at least living beings with rights. And abrahamic religions (I know less about others) view humans as being god's special creatures who have dominion over all others. Same reason there's often more child abuse in religious homes.
I guess I could have phrased this exact question with "the environment" and probably got the same answers. (Bad) religious people think it's all "theirs" so they can do whatever they want and pollute all they want as "god" will take care of the earth no matter what.
You might want to note that while this probably applies to major religions, it's not all religions
Also this is probably a good representation from the bible
Genesis 1:28 (KJV): "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
They also think animals don't have souls
I'm 90% sure that modern Christianity is not actually correct Christianity because if you read about jesus, everything about him is coded in eastern spiritualism, as if he learned it from someone else and explained it to the other people that wrote about Jesus and didn't understand the symbolism and allowed it to evolve into ego inducing assholery.
That's only part of it. You've described Dominionists, the other end are are the Stewards, Stewards believe its our duty to tend the Earth and its creatures as it is God's dominion, not ours.
What I said also applies to stewardship, though. They both still abuse animals and then say “But Jesus ate fish.”
I don't think an animal's life is of equal value to a human's. I don't think that's a strictly religious view point either. Should they have shot harambe to save that kid, or was that action equivalent to murder?
Typical creature that values it's own species over all others. I really despise this mentality. Anyway have a great day.
Should they have shot harambe or let it rip the kid in half? Is it your position that all organisms are of equal value?
You're using too much logic for an emotional thread, lol.
The people who are "animals over humans!!!" or equate them don't love nor care for anybody besides themselves in earnest. They'll stay in their little corner with their pets, shaking in fear just thinking about deep human connections until the day they die. 🤷♂️
Oh I'd say this is definitely just anecdotal to you personally. Lots of animal shelters are owned, operated and funded by religious organizations.
that also seems anecdotal... I personally never heard of a single one (oh, anecdotal too) and in all cities I've lived I knew of shelters and rescuers because I'm one (and I currently take care of 34 cats and 4 dogs), and I must agree with OP, I know a lot of rescuers that have a religion (like, that vague belief in the god their parents talked about) but none that are overtly religious (wear symbols, attend temples, etc)
edit: Homeless shelters and nursing homes though, plenty of religious institutions behind them.
Ton are a google search away. Dalo Acres Animal Sanctuary UT, St. Francis Animal Sanctuary MI, Keeping the Faith Animal Shelter PA. There's a ton of em.
The question isn't whether they are not animal friendly, but whether they are less animal friendly. There may be a ton of them but if there are six tons of non-religious shelters, there's a difference.
What metric would you want to see?
Are you under the impression animal shelters are churning out big bucks?
While true, lets not be those jerks who associate literally every bad thing to ever happen with churches. Believe it or not there are churches with good people feeding the homeless etc. It's probably .000000001%, but they're out there (and it sure as hell ain't megachurches or any church that preaches maga)
That is true of any charity organization, regardless of affiliation.
This thread is basically about Dominionism vs Stewardship. A debate as old as many religions especially in the Abrahamic family
I didn't take organizations into account,
They are run by people. I think if you have a generally negative perception of a certain type of person, you'll start attributing negative behaviors to all of them, even if its only been your limited experience.
According to one religious person I've talked to, animals don't have "souls" so they're not worth anything. I argued there's no difference, many animals have emotions and awareness, just like us. His reply was they we are smarter than animals.
I asked what about dumb people then, because there's considerable overlap between the dumbest people and the smartest animals. Like at what "IQ" do you obtain a soul? That's about when he tried changing the subject.
You spoke to a Dominionist. The other end of that spectrum are Stewards, Dominionists believe the Earth is ours to do with as we please. Stewards believe the Earth belongs to "God" and our duty is to be caretakers. I am heavily in the Steward camp
Of course. The Bible taught people that this planet is ours, and that animals are under us.
Ehh not quite. That's Dominion. The other interpretation Stewardship, is that Earth is God's dominion not ours and we are caretakers, not its owners.
As a vegan, the most annoying people are religious people (specially abrahamic believers) and their unbreakable logic: 'If God didn't want us to eat meat, why did he give them to us' Imo that reflects their attitude towards animals: they don't see them as a living beings, but rather as things to be used.
I think it's more to do with religious people coming from rural backgrounds.
Eating meat was a celebratory thing when I was still living in rural Turkey, so at first vegetarianism seemed like "a spoiled western thing"
In my mind it was grouped next to those ragebait videos of 14 year olds yelling at their mom for getting the wrong iphone model.
Animal cruelty argument didn't work great either because, "I only eat halal certified anyway."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_dietary_laws
Note: It sounds decent, especially for early 7th century Arabia standards, but no multi-billion industry is following regulations that make them less profit to 100%.
What DID convince me near instantly was someone showing how the meat industry is all exploitative and corrupt.
They waste workers, water, and animal lives on purpose because it's more profitable than proper logistics. Fucking cruel looking into it, crazy they aren't being universally boycotted already.
They are living organism, but don't have a nervous system or barain like animals have and there is no evidence they have a conciosness like animals have.
They are living, not sentient tho.
Neither can you prove they are, while you can easily prove that animals are.
Or that animals are
It depends on what religion you look at you have religions with literal sacred animals, religions where all life is sacred, religions where the prophet didn’t like dogs so dogs are explicitly shunned, religions where just cloven hooves animals are forbidden etc. it’s kind of all over the place, my church is dog friendly and I’ve brought him with me before.
I do think there is a subset of Christianity that believes that 1) animals exist to serve man 2) animals don’t have souls so that would mean animal welfare isn’t really a priority. It’s also important to maintain that animals don’t have souls explicitly to justify caring less about them, if they had eternal souls it would be a lot harder to feel ok exploiting them.
So yes, I do think some religions do have an undercurrent of denying animal welfare for the benefit of animal exploitation because they believe that is the god given purpose of animals, to be exploited by man.
But "Sacred animals" AFAIK doesn't mean all animals, but very specific one. Like you shouldn't eat cows, but eating pigs is fine. So it isn't against religious people general morales to avoid killing animals.
But maybe you know of a religion where all animals are sacred.
I think this is because many religions convince their followers that they are the center of the uni, and that the sun, mountains, animals, and birds were all created to serve them. In contrast, non-religious people are much more likely to see the bigger picture, that they are simply part of nature.
Also, some religions like Islam for example, treat dogs as something to be avoided. For example, there's a Hadith that says: "Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture"! So that is the case with Islam, since I come from a Muslim background.
not even a picture??? wowy
My VERY religious stepdaughter somehow sends out a ‘bite me now’ signal to cats.
She was also just going to essentially dump her cat on the street when she left the country a couple years.
So yeah, she sucks.
EDIT: to clarify, I took in that cat who is a bit of a butthead, but doesn’t deserve to die for it.
I think it depends on what you mean by “animal friendly”. If you mean own a pet and treat it well. I don’t think there is a correlation. At least in the southern US I would be willing to bet a majority of religious families have owned a pet.
If you mean “they care more for animals than humans” then I would agree. The world is big and I am not an expert on religions, but most of the ones around here do think animals are less than humans. But I think you can believe that while being animal friendly. Becusse I believe that and my dogs are spoiled as shit.
Guess I'm going against the grain here, but in my experiences, no not really.
At least here in Aus I've never noticed any correlation between animal friendliness and religion. My family for example is very religious (I'm not), and quite conservative (I'm definitely not lol), but they care for animals better than they care for other people.
What I have noticed is more fear from other cultures. For example, I have an Indian neighbour who never grew up around dogs, especially big dogs. When I first picked up my German Shepherd as an 8 week old pup, they were scared shitless of him! Scared of a cute little fur ball, with paws too big for his body just flailing around bumping into things, literally one of the cutest things I've ever seen!
Not dismissing the question on religion being linked to animal friendliness, but maybe region and cultural factors are also playing a role here?
There are entire religions on the well being of animals. Jainist hardliners i think it is where the monks even cover their mouth and noses to not breath in the smalles of bacteria since those are animals too
I think you found a weird outlier and your data set is small. Like, most of the world is religious in some way shape or form, your sample size is too small to make any realistic judgement call
Thats why I asked here
Touche'.
St Francis of Assisi was an animal lover, by all accounts 😂
The really religious types
What country/culture/religion are you asking about?
I should have clarified that. I was referring to western Christianity, mega church goers etc.
Sometimes my posts aren't thought through before I post !
I was taught as a young conservative xtian that only humans have souls and that animals were put here for our use and amusement. I was taught that animal pain could not be real because they don't have a soul. They are effectively just toys or food for humans, according to conservative christians.
Conservatism is a fkn disease that needs to be eradicated.
I can't speak to other religions, but I'm pretty sure there's a passage in the bible that says that (paraphrasing) mankind has dominion over animals. Some clearly interpret this to mean "God says I can be as shitty as I want to animals".
they are also likely to neglect them, and see them as commodities, as the current thing to have, once the honeymoon phase wears off they neglect them, anecdotes of course. consider how religious people dont really adopt people for the right reasons and railing on abortion rights.
Probably not. At least I can't think of a single reason that would explain this. I can however come up with reasons why one might be tempted to think that even if it wasn't true.
Interestingly, I don't know a single religious person so I have zero anecdotal evidence to reference to.
Many are told that they are above animals and that they are there to be used by us.
Speaking from experience, whether you are religious or not, being kind to animals are a separate thing. What I can say though, devout Muslims that I knew are either animal lovers, or animal avoiders because they are scared by furry things.
But being cruel to animals? I'm quite sure thats against our teaching though. Although we do slaughter animals for food, for example.
Genesis 1:28 (KJV): "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Amish?
A lack of empathy extends to all things.
I try not to associate with that kind of people, but just about every hyper religious nut that I know personally has had at least one dog. Only one of those has had cats.
But, I'll definitely verify the second part. I'm an atheist who has 5 cats (had a dog too, but she passed) and has successfully gotten a squirrel and at least one chipmunk to eat from my hand.
Ooo! La-dee-da! Disney princess over here!
(JK)
I wouldn't call myself religious, it's more of a lifestyle but I am Christian and Love animals. They always have a place in my heart. And I love to draw them.
Depends if you’re a cow or a chicken
Probably, they're both independently correlated with right-wing politics.
Assuming you live in the West. In India it'd be another matter.
Not my experience. I used to work with animals, and many of my clients, or people I did animal rescue work with, were religious. The animal rescue work, specifically, seemed to attract people who were extremely religious.
I'm not sure, I'm not religious aside from Buddhist thoughts. It seems like a lot of people love domesticated animals, but food is where I can see a difference. I don't think that there's not too much of a religious division by many means when it comes to animals we consume.
Take for example, a lot of people look at deer as oh adorable Bambi. I see great, I have to scrape you off my steel bumper, shoot you in the head to put you out of your misery, and then venison is on the menu for the month since it would be a shame to disrespect the animals death.
The vegan thread I wrote in really didn't like that I wrote that if hunting, shooting deer in where there spine and skull connects is the most humane way as opposed to a heart/lung shot and having the animal run in fear in it's last moments. Same goes for cattle, kosher and halal aren't very humane compared to using an air gun to sever the brain and skull and seize all function. There is a difference in the taste of the meat.
Same goes with fish and shellfish. Fish for sushi is basically killed with a spike destroying the brain and that's why it tastes different than the fish for grilling. Same goes for lobster, you can put it to sleep or do the same.
Edit: Meant to reply to a comment, accidentally replied to post instead. Don't mind.
I don't say this out of malice, but please, please, avoid using "religion" (and indirectly "belief in deities and other supernatural entities") as a synonym for abrahamic religions because this ends up attacking countless religions and belief systems worldwide, some of which even lack a male capital-G God and/or are Goddess-centric.
The latter case is my case, I'm primarily a worshipper of Goddess Lilith, and I've been literally worshiping owls, especially because I believe owls are Her familiars, even Her zoomorphic manifestation (see Burney Relief) sometimes... not to mention how owls are majestic and amazing on their own, as beautifully cute yet fiercely powerful raptors possessing the most silent flight observable among avians... I mean, just look at any Bubo (my favorites, not necessarily in order of preference, are B. virginianus, B. ascalaphus, B. scandiacus, B. bubo, B. magellanicus and B. cinerascens), Megascops/Otus (M. kennicotti and O. bakkamoena) and Athene (especially A. noctua, A. lilith (yes, there's literally an owl species named after Lilith, native to Middle East), A. brama and A. cunicularia) for long enough and you'll hopefully understand how goddessome they are!
(And the fact that "I know my favorite Strigidae" by their taxonomic binomials may also tell ya something about how deep I got inside this rabbit burrowing owl's hole of Science's ornithology primarily motivated by non-scientific reasons (and also by my neurodivergence's "hyperfixation" and "special interests" traits)).
There are also other religions and belief systems that are very animal-friendly (especially friendly to wildlife), including but not limited to Wicca, Druidism, Buddhism ("a monk must watch their steps lest they harm ants") and (as far as I know) Hinduism/Shaktism (cows as sacred symbols of motherhood and abundance).
If its religious, it's wrong. I don't care if its an abrahamic religion, Islam, Hindi or whatever religion, it's all imaginary and never for the betterment of the people, it's always about control
it's always about control
"Always about control"? Whom and how exactly am I trying to "control" through my practice of an extremely solitary, idiosyncratic practice, whose convoluted syncretism (borrowing concepts across Sumerian, Egyptian, Thelema, Wicca, Gnosticism, Luciferianism, Goetia, Quimbanda and many other religions) alienates me from practically all religions from which my syncretism derives because I don't exclusively follow any of those?
It's all imaginary
Yes, I know!, and? So many things are imaginary around you right now, too. For example, as you're reading this text, you're seeing before you a mesh made of millions of trios of red, green and blue tiny dots shining in a very specific intensity so to interact your (respectively) L, M and S cones all over your retina, fooling your occipital lobe to interpret a large portion of the visible spectrum, then your Inferior temporal gyrus interprets symbols (letters from the English alphabet your graphics card is rendering a large raster bitmap based on this text's UTF-8 byte-stream), as well as pictographs (Lemmy mascot from both the community's avatar as well as from your lemmy.ca instance with the shape and colors of the Canadian flag; the maple leaf from the Canadian flag therein; all those colors and shapes from the Anubis "making sure you're not a bot" anime girl shown every time you access the lemmy.ca instance to interact with the Fediverse) out of the bigger picture once projected onto your retina. The orange color you're seeing outlining the Lemmy mascot icon from this community, it isn't orange because there's no orange dot on digital displays. You can neither touch nor interact with Anubis anime girl, she's not even closely real. You can neither touch nor interact with the Maple leaf symbol like you could with an actual physical Maple leaf.
So, are you sure you're gonna play the "deities are imaginary" atheist card with me, a religious, pagan person whose ground is heavily covered in nihilism (as in, nothing fucking exists, not even myself, as everything is a gigantic ocean of baryons and leptons from which the illusion of order, together with this Pale Blue Dot and all the self-rearranging carbon-based structures therein, have been emerged out of cosmic chaos)? At least I'm using the belief on my "imaginary" owl-goddess (because, yes, I can only imagine Her, as my retina never exactly saw Her) to seek and learn actual, scientific (ornithological) knowledge, instead of denying Science like Abrahamic religions often do.
Over controlling christians won't have "dirty" animals in their homes. Ask any of their children how disappointed they were not having a pet as a kid. However, most of the xians where I live have a ton of cats that run free, a yard full of barking angry dogs and children that act like animals. Hoarding animals seems very common in my experience.
I read in the old testament that when moving the ark of the covenant to a new location that, for every few steps taken, they would sacrifice another ox or some other animal as an offering to God, and it was a long journey.
Not in my experience
Nope quite the opposite. The christians and the church fed me and clothed me and housed me when I was at the worst place in my life, and they didn't even shove their religion down my throat.
Maybe it's different in the USA.
The most dismissive and arrogant were people on the far left, honestly. And I'm far left. If you're not trans or gay or a woman you might as well be a cockroach with the animosity you receive.
Oh shit you said animal friendly, I misread the question my bad.
They might just be more human friendly 🤷♂️. The atheist Western person often loves animals because they're afraid of people (which turns into hatred after some years of propaganda and loneliness), can't form or maintain proper relationships for a number of reasons (trauma, ideology that thinks men are wolves to their fellow man) and, sometimes, it's because they can't control people the way they can control animals.
This reminds me of that one line "I can tolerate racism but I won't stand for animal abuse" or something like that by the blonde girl in Community, lol.
Ps: I have a big chubby cat called Jezebel that's as pampered as a young princess, and I still understand that's just an animal. If I had to decide on saving the lives of either a random person or my cat, I would save the random person with no hesitation. Who wouldn't do the same besides thoroughly confused people?
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It's not that they don't like animals. It's that they don't view animals as equal to humans. They believe that god made them superior to animals, so what happens to animals doesn't really matter.
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