Yeah. I love Signal but it doesn't belong in that list. Dansup (creator of loops and pixelfed) is apparently working on "Sup" that will be a decentralized alternative to whatsapp.
punkisundead 70 points 2 years ago
To me this person sounds like they have too many big projects at once. I wish them success tho
Lazycog 36 points 2 years ago
Yeah.. I'm bit afraid of "kbin Ernest Effect" (not sure what a proper term is) where personal issues pile up and the sole head developer just disappears.
Haven't followed dansup much but from what I understand he is much more open to pull requests and listening to the community, but time will tell. Right now I appreciate and love his effort, giving, and the impact on fediverse he is brining.
The kickstarter was a good idea.
ApollosArrow 11 points 2 years ago
Given that I’ve waited 3 weeks to join his smaller instance of pixelfed.art, I can tell things are already piling up. I am hoping the kickstarter does help.
ProdigalFrog 18 points 2 years ago
XMPP is an established federated messaging app with encryption.
poVoq 7 points 2 years ago
Originally it was supposed to be ActivityPub based, but recently they posted something about it being for XMPP, Matrix and IRC as well 🤷♂️ Maybe they decided to fork Pidgin 😂
IMHO Sup. isn't going to happen. They will have their hands more than full with Pixelfed's new popularity and maybe Loops.
ProdigalFrog 5 points 2 years ago
That would be rad if true ^^
FundMECFSResearch 16 points 2 years ago
Matrix?
Kalcifer 1 point 2 years ago
I wish Boost understood the collapsible spoilers.
On my client, it’s all expanded and I see all the formatting characters.
Ah dang, that's good to know (though I'm not sure what to do as an alternative) — I was unaware that the collapsible spoilers weren't supported on Boost. I guess that means that Lemmy's markdown formatting hasn't entirely been standardized across the service. I personally have encountered some inconsistency on the Tesseract UI with CommonMark Autolink ^[2]^ formatting where the autolinks don't even render ^[1]^.
I recommend reporting this to the Boost devs to improve Markdown feature compatibility between them and the Lemmy UI.
References
- "Kalcifer" @Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works. To: ["Happy #GlobalSwitchDay". @squirrel@discuss.tchncs.de. "Fediverse" !fediverse@lemmy.world. Tesseract. sh.itjust.works. Published: 2025-02-01T07:08:40Z. Accessed: 2025-02-02T04:40Z. https://tesh.itjust.works/....]. Published: 2025-02-01T09:20:14Z. Accessed: 2025-02-02T04:42Z. https://sh.itjust.works/post/32046509/16425699.
- Raw Text:
Signal isn't federated ^[1][2][3.1]^; it's decentralized ^[1][2][3.2]^. Though, for all practical purposes, I would generally argue that it's centralized. ::: spoiler References 1. Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. <https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server>. - This is the source code for the server that Signal uses. 2. "Signal (software)". Wikipedia. Published: 2025-01-06T09:34Z. Accessed: 2025-02-1T09:30Z. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)>. - ¶"Architecture". ¶"Servers". > Signal relies on centralized servers that are maintained by Signal Messenger. In addition to routing Signal's messages, the servers also facilitate the discovery of contacts who are also registered Signal users and the automatic exchange of users' public keys. […] 3. "Reflections: The ecosystem is moving". moxie0. Signal Blog. Published: 2016-05-10. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:40Z. <https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/>. 1. ¶5. to ¶"Stuck in time". ¶3-6 > One of the controversial things we did with Signal early on was to build it as an unfederated service. Nothing about any of the protocols we’ve developed requires centralization; it’s entirely possible to build a federated Signal Protocol-based messenger, but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all. […] [interoperable protocols] [have] taken us pretty far, but it’s undeniable that once you federate your protocol, it becomes very difficult to make changes. And right now, at the application level, things that stand still don’t fare very well in a world where the ecosystem is moving. […] Early on, I thought we’d federate Signal once its velocity had subsided. Now I realize that things will probably never slow down, and if anything the velocity of the entire landscape seems to be steadily increasing. 2. ¶"Stuck in time". "Federation and control". ¶6. > An open source infrastructure for a centralized network now provides almost the same level of control as federated protocols, without giving up the ability to adapt. If a centralized provider with an open source infrastructure ever makes horrible changes, those that disagree have the software they need to run their own alternative instead. It may not be as beautiful as federation, but at this point it seems that it will have to do. :::- Rendered:
- In the rendered text there are no links; however, there should be links at the end, as is shown by the CommonMark autolinks in the raw text.
- Rendered:
- Raw Text:
- "CommonMark Spec". John MacFarlane. CommonMark. Version: 0.31.2. Published: 2024-01-28. Accessed: 2025-02-02T04:51Z. https://spec.commonmark.org/0.31.2/#uri-autolink.
- §6.5 "Autolinks". ¶2.
A URI autolink consists of
<, followed by an absolute URI followed by>. It is parsed as a link to the URI, with the URI as the link’s label.
- §6.5 "Autolinks". ¶2.
aeronmelon 14 points 2 years ago
That person isn’t fucking around.
OsrsNeedsF2P 24 points 2 years ago
Signal is hostile to third party clients like Molly.im as well
amzd 9 points 2 years ago
it’s decentralized
No it’s not. From literally your own comment:
Signal relies on centralized servers
For a decentralized messenger use https://delta.chat
Kalcifer 21 points 2 years ago
it’s decentralized
No it’s not. From literally your own comment:
Signal relies on centralized servers
I was using "decentralized" to mean that there isn't centralized control over ownership of the service in general — eg anyone can spin up their own server (impractical, imo, pushing it more towards being centralized) and people can use it (making it decentralized, imo (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do think my usage of the term is appropriate in this way.)), but people who use that server can only communicate with that server (making it not federated). But yes it could still be said to be centralized in that it operates on a client-server model ^[1]^.
This is more an argument of definitions, though. I'm not trying to claim anything in bad faith.
References
- Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
- This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
amzd 7 points 2 years ago
That’s just open source, not decentralized. I can’t find a definition of decentralization that would even make it vague. From Wikipedia:
Decentralization is the process by which the activities of an organization, particularly those related to planning and decision-making, are distributed or delegated away from a central, authoritative location or group and given to smaller factions within it.
Signal has a central authoritative server and to use it with any other server you have to modify the source code.
Kalcifer 6 points 2 years ago
Decentralization is the process by which the activities of an organization, particularly those related to planning and decision-making, are distributed or delegated away from a central, authoritative location or group and given to smaller factions within
Imo this fits my usage of the term — Signal can be broken up into many isolated servers ^[1]^ all offering the same service.
References
- Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
- This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
Kalcifer 4 points 2 years ago
That’s just open source, not decentralized.
Depending on exactly how said open source development is occuring, I could argue that open source development is an example of decentralization. It may even be an example of federation (all depending on licensing and development medium imo).
namingthingsiseasy 7 points 2 years ago
but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all.
The fact that we have a telephone system that works with separate providers contradicts this sentiment. If I want to pick up the phone and talk to my cousin's puppy in New Zealand, I can do that without creating an account on his provider's service.
I don't understand why we've forgotten this as a society. Yes, it was difficult to upgrade the phone systems over the past century, but it's worth it in my opinion. I really wish we'd start seeing government regulation that says "you should be able to talk to someone on a service without having to create an account on said service." I thought the DMA would do this, but sadly, Whatsapp still requires an account to talk to people using that service. Very disappointing.
jollyrogue 1 point 2 years ago
How is the puppy?
As for interoperability between services… Monetization of surveillance data. The social media companies are Ad companies, and they make their money surveilling people and selling access. It’s harder to build an accurate model of a person when only pieces of data is available, and they need to have more data then the other Ad tech companies they’re competing with.
jollyrogue 7 points 2 years ago
Yeah, Moxie has openly shot down the idea of adding federation to Signal, and I’ve never heard them claim Signal was decentralized.
Matrix is federated, distributed, and decentralized.
XMPP is federated and decentralized.
jollyrogue 3 points 2 years ago
Matrix servers keep a copy of any remote room an account on the server has joined, and it’s possible to recreate a room from the copies held on different servers. There are more details I don’t remember, but at a high level that’s how it’s distributed.
Storing messages of remote rooms in addition to local rooms is why people complain about the storage requirements of Matrix servers. They don’t realize it’s distributed.
ZeroCool 123 points 2 years ago
For the avid readers out there, bookwyrm is a fantastic alternative to goodreads.
FundMECFSResearch 49 points 2 years ago
Yes it’s excellent! Also noting for those that aren’t aware: Goodreads is owned by Amazon.
BruisedMoose 2 points 2 years ago
I've been looking for something to track my physical book, music, and game collections. An instance of this might work nicely. Thanks!
LoganNineFingers 3 points 2 years ago
It could be but I find the android app buggy (this month I've been using bookwyrm, GR, Open Reads, and The Story Graph to compare them all and still nothing is as smooth as GR. Plus bookwyrm has no apple app. I love where Bookwyrm is going but right now the switch is not the best
i_am_not_a_robot 5 points 2 years ago
It doesn't have an app, how is it buggy?
Cracks_InTheWalls 5 points 2 years ago
Might be talking about the Bookwyrm client on F-Droid?
LoganNineFingers 7 points 2 years ago
I went back to check. This is correct. It's the un official one in f-droid.
My bad!
Undaunted 104 points 2 years ago
Unfortunately, the switch from YouTube to PeerTube has not worked for me so far. I can't find a decent instance (not full of right-wing/conspiracy content) with interesting stuff that also allows me to make an account.
FundMECFSResearch 62 points 2 years ago
Yes finding the right instance on peertube is a nightmare — and also the general lack of quality content, or subtitling, which makes it as good as useless for deaf people like me.
Elrecoal19_0 9 points 2 years ago
Yeah, it is already hard to find reasons to use it for the average user, so people with disabilities (deafness, blindness,intellectual etc.) probably even have reasons to NOT use them (no subtitles, each instance might have different elements or structure that might be a nightmare for screen readers, it might be too complex for some people, etc.).
meldrik 9 points 2 years ago
Have a look here for potential instances: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115 and also check these links out for channels to follow: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15810205 / https://peertube.wtf/home
biggerbogboy 23 points 2 years ago
although it is federated, it isn't apart of the fediverse, as it doesn't use activitypub.
namingthingsiseasy 16 points 2 years ago
Are we claiming now that Activity Pub is the only protocol that we can use for the fediverse? I think XMPP is roughly 30 years old at this point, and I'm pretty sure Activity Pub is much younger than that. I could be wrong though.
But regardless, I don't see why Activity Pub has to be the only protocol we accept to be considered a part of the fediverse. It's not even like different AP implementations talk to each other all that well. My understanding is that Mastodon doesn't federate that well with Lemmy, and I haven't seen Loops or Pixelfed on Lemmy yet either.
I'd be happy to be corrected on any of this though, I haven't looked too closely into exactly how AP works or how it's supposed to interoperate with different applications.
ubergeek 4 points 2 years ago
I mean, yeah... the fediverse, specifically, are AP servers, which is why we don't include diaspora for it.
It's decentralized and federated, to be sure, just not the "fediverse".
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
Fediverse is about federation. It’s not Activityverse. So yeah, email, Usenet, IRC, XMPP, Matrix… all Fediverse, all an antidote to corporate walled gardens.
Edit: not demeaning AP, it’s a great achievement and the services built upon it are a testament to its quality and forward-thinking.
PeriodicallyPedantic 9 points 2 years ago
I'd like to argue that using AP is an inconsistent rule for membership. For example, Diaspora has been considered to be part of the fediverse from early on, but it doesn't use AP.
I don't really know where to draw the line. AP simply isn't suitable for some applications, but it makes sense to include it for branding
ubergeek 3 points 2 years ago
I don't know of anyone who include d*, accepting the tiny number of d* pods that also speak AP.
I mean, nostr is also NOT part of the fediverse, but another federated and decentralized network.
PeriodicallyPedantic 0 points 2 years ago
Both Wikipedia and fediverse.party consider Diaspora, and a handful of other (mostly defunct) protocols as being part of the fediverse.
I don't really like the use of AP to be a qualification of being in the fediverse. There must be a better way to qualify a platform, even if it means that use of AP is a natural consequence.
ubergeek -1 points 2 years ago
Then email is a part of the fediverse? UUCP nets? IRC nets?
All federated, none speak AP.
I think a good working definition is "speaks the w3c standard AP". Otherwise, its totally lost its meaning.
davidagain 18 points 2 years ago
Absolutely, signal isn't federated, but I don't want my messaging app to be federated. I want my social media to be federated. Lemmy is good because it's open. Signal is good because it's shut.
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
That’s your preference and there’s nothing wrong with it. Doesn’t make Signal a Fediverse alternative. Matrix fits that use case.
I prefer my messaging to be federated for the same reason I don’t want my other services depending on the benevolence of a single actor. But that’s me.
e8d79 4 points 2 years ago
Don't use Matrix the devs knew about sidechannel vulnerabilities and ignored them for years. This is peak negligence and should immediately disqualify you from touching anything security related.
autonomoususer 2 points 2 years ago
You do not have a solution.
e8d79 -1 points 2 years ago
I do, use Signal if you care about privacy. They are the only game in town when it comes to reasonably secure chat software. Sure, I would prefer a federated alternative but I haven't found one yet that is always end-to-end encrypted, open source, implements forward secrecy, and is user friendly enough to be used by my grandmother.
SolarPunker 2 points 2 years ago
SimpleX is better, you don't even need a phone number.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
Thanks
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago
the author literally picked random projects from github tagged as matrix, without considering their prevalence or whether they are actually maintained etc.
if you actually look at % of impacted clients, it’s tiny.
meanwhile, it is very unclear that any sidechannel attack on a libolm based client is practical over the network (which is why we didn’t fix this years ago). After all, the limited primitives are commented on in the readme and https://github.com/matrix-org/olm/issues/3 since day 1.
From your link.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
No, Matrix is federated differently.
acockworkorange 0 points 2 years ago
And Signal isn’t?!
autonomoususer 0 points 2 years ago
Signal is centralised.
acockworkorange 0 points 2 years ago
You now understood both my point and the OC’s, I hope.
NickwithaC 21 points 2 years ago
Don't worry, your successor isn't offering anything big. You'll still be around for many more days to come.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol 62 points 2 years ago path: 0 14823786, hotness: undefined, score: 62, children: 11
TropicalDingdong 27 points 2 years ago
Hear me out.
Creators should be hosting peer tubes. And they should host exclusively their own content. Fans of their can subscribe to whatever systems they want to pay and support.
For creators, it's a backup for when YouTube the project inevitably fails. For fans as well. But it's also a backup of their content.
Statick 18 points 2 years ago
Tech-savvy content creators, sure...
Your average content creator that wants to make Minecraft videos? Unrealistic.
I hate the monopoly Youtube has, but all of the federated alternatives have a learning curve the general public isn't willing to deal with.
Natanox 11 points 2 years ago
Not to mention it lacks any (ethical) monetization options. And the app is absolutely rudimentary, lacking even basic functionality.
Framasoft made it clear they don't want to make it a Youtube alternative though, however it could be through plugins. So there'd have to be a company or cooperative using it as a base to build upon, which is actually realistic. Especially European ones; not because Asia wouldn't be interested in being more independent on the US as well, but because Framasoft is from France and Europe actively works towards this goal anyway with lots of money behind it.
RandomVideos 14 points 2 years ago
A lot of youtubers make a living posting videos.
They dont have a good enough reason to risk going to a much smaller audience with no ads and no membership system
They also probably arent knowledgeable enough about computers to switch
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago
You don’t need to have a YouTube login to watch those. But you can join Peertube to post your content that you make without money as an end goal.
umbraroze 9 points 2 years ago
For Mastodon, the people you follow will also need to switch. This is even harder than getting your friends to switch.
Well I switched from the birdsite to Mastodon because a) I like to shout in the void and b) see what other people are shouting into the void. Doesn't really ultimately matter who's doing the shouting. People who go to social media exclusively for news and updates are a bit strange when you really think about it. You've got to have the shout in you.
(I'm only being half facetious here)
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol 3 points 2 years ago path: 0 14823786 14829914 14829961, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
desconectado 2 points 2 years ago
@jonjuan That's totally true! I tried to use WhatsApp just for work and Telegram for my friends and contacts, but only my wife and mom were talking to me there 😂. However, I think it's important to keep talking to people about alternatives. That way, we can switch from this "proprietary web" to a free one.
autonomoususer 2 points 2 years ago
PipePipe is on F-Droid
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago
Remember the early days of YouTube? When people made garage videos for fun? Remember Vines? When people were making videos instead of businesses making content?
That’s what Peertube is for. It’s to have fun. Showcase your high school band. Talk about your potted plants. Share your excitement about trains. It’s not to make money. It’s to live.
blackn1ght 20 points 2 years ago
I think it's just the colours for the peertube one. I like that it's three individual play icons to signify the federation aspect, but the colours are just dull.
TriflingToad 13 points 2 years ago
I like the Lemmy one, but peertubes logo looks like it's gonna stab my eyeballs in my sleep
namingthingsiseasy 3 points 2 years ago
The colors in the peertube logo are pretty hideous.
jaybone 9 points 2 years ago
The Lemmy logo always looks so sad or angry to me. Wished he could look happier.
The only ones on the right I really like are signal and friendica. (I had never seen the friendica logo before. This is really well done whoever designed that. Good job.)
All the big guys of course can afford graphic design teams and marketing/PR research.
The notable exception for me is mastodon. While I’m still not a big fan of that logo either, it certainly looks better than the X logo. I’m guessing Musk DOGE’d his design teams in favor of some yes-men.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol 8 points 2 years ago path: 0 14820319 14825076, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
VintageGenious 4 points 2 years ago
They're horrible
potentiallynotfelix 47 points 2 years ago
Signal is centralized, loops is closed source and not accepting new users.
tempest 21 points 2 years ago
That really is not a satisfying answer. It is incredibly nebulous and even if it did have a nice definition I guarantee most software developers will tell you a lot of software rarely reaches that state.
I can see why they might want to avoid 1000 GitHub issues bike shedding things but they could open source the code and just not have open contribution
acockworkorange 4 points 2 years ago
Sometimes you’re ashamed of the ugly hacks you cobbled together to reach MVP, and you want to fix the stuff you know you need to fix first before being thrown to the wolves. I can respect that, for a limited time.
EuroNutellaMan 2 points 2 years ago
I mean maybe but you could also just say "we did some whacky shit here help us fix it please" and let the community help you in the effort. That's the beauty of open source. Then again they may have their reasons and frankly I'm not even interested in a TikTok like social media so w/e as long as they don't eat up their word it's fine.
potentiallynotfelix 10 points 2 years ago
That means very little to me. Actions speak louder than words, and it would probably help the development of loops if it was actually open source.
MrRazamataz 8 points 2 years ago
Made by the same dev as Pixelfed, which did a similar thing.
supersquirrel 3 points 2 years ago
Which I think dansup should deserve our trust on this for quite a long time for doing. It isn't empty promises if they already made Pixelfed and opensourced it.
Like.. I suppose it could be a grift, anything could but I see no reason to question their goals or motives.
ubergeek 1 point 2 years ago
For a lot of FLOSS projects, it's common to keep the initial team small, so a product can be delivered fast, and gets opened up later.
It's to solve the "too many cooks" and prevent bikeshedding.
A lot of corpo espionage is there solely to tank potential competitors, which include FLOSS projects.
autonomoususer -2 points 2 years ago
Loops is anti-libre software confirmed.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
It's missing a libre software licence text file.
Elrecoal19_0 6 points 2 years ago
So Matrix it is?
YarHarSuperstar 5 points 2 years ago
I was told that unless you self host, matrix is less secure because it leaks more metadata. Something to consider
WhyJiffie 4 points 2 years ago
sender, recipient, chatroom, what kind of event you sent (message, emoji, reaction, vote), if you responded to a message, room privilege changes, etc
but it's a question how big of a problem is that. they want to tackle it in the future, but that's far away for now I think
Elrecoal19_0 1 point 2 years ago
Damm, didn't know that, good to know
derbolle 11 points 2 years ago
technically nothing but it serves as a privacy respecting alternative to meta/google controlled messengers.
things like mastodon and pixelfed are rather easy to wrap your head around and replace their big tech counterparts with if you are the average user.
there is no real replacement for an instant messaging/sms like experience. matrix is at the moment still a bit too complicated to get into if you have come to expect a workflow like: download an app -> write your phone contacts a message.
so although it is not federated it is the best we have got at the moment in my opinion
ReloadPhawPhaw 9 points 2 years ago path: 0 14817953 14818945 14819054 14819906, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 1
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It really looks like they managed to make an ID less chat as simple as possible. But the undeniable benefit of using one’s phone as ID is that when people switch, their contacts are already there. I think that friction alone will prevent normies from adopting it.
teri 40 points 2 years ago
I support the cause in general but: Signal is not federated at all. It may seem like a decent alternative to WhatsApp but is it really? It still falls under the same US jurisdiction. Let's say the US gov starts agressively prosecuting dissidents and certain minorities (they already do): can and should we still use signal in this case? I don't think so. Sadly i can't name a much better alternative. Maybe matrix. But it has other issues.
pineapple_pizza 38 points 2 years ago
A federated social fitness app(like Strava) would be cool
DicJacobus 36 points 2 years ago
instead of switching ive mostly just been ditching entirely. I need less time interacting with internet people.
literally the only thing on this list im still using is facebook messenger, for my work colleagues. and youtube. everything else ive migrated (reddit-lemmy), or abandoned and torched
chanteoma 36 points 2 years ago
Hi, I think too many people are focusing too much on the type of software included in this chart. I don't think the goal of the person that created the chart was to create the ultimate guide to move to the Fediverse or FOSS apps with all the options available for them. I believe it prioritizes simplicity, and it's clearly directed towards people unaware that these alternatives exist.
Most people I know don't even know what the Fediverse is, and I think this initiative is for them.
I know that debating which FOSS/Fedi apps are the best is a big matter of concern for people that are already aware of the problems some platform have. But focusing too much on this debate not only creates more division among supporters of FOSS/Fedi, but it is also drawing attention from the main point: Bringing more people to the Fediverse.
autonomoususer 5 points 2 years ago
Thank you. Please jump in faster with a tldr of this on other posts like this.
potentiallynotfelix 12 points 2 years ago
Loops isnt even federated or open source yet. Deleted my account
Zeon 4 points 2 years ago
I agree. If it's not libre from the start, we should not trust it. The term "open source" is ambiguous; they could just put it under some restrictive open-source license and then revert to closed source later. If it's put under a free software license like the GPL, then I'll feel better.
Daeraxa 2 points 2 years ago
That seems a little extreme. I would maybe agree if 1) it wasn't being made by the guy who has already got an AGPL project in Pixelfed and 2) it was on open signups. Whilst software is invite-only or closed entirely I don't really see a problem in it not being open-sourced.
autonomoususer -1 points 2 years ago
Doesn't it says gullible in their ToS?
GamingChairModel 10 points 2 years ago
Loops really isn't ready for primetime. It's too new and unpolished, and will need a bit more time.
I wonder if peertube can scale. YouTube has a whole sophisticated system for ingesting and transcoding videos into dozens of formats, with tradeoffs being made on computational complexity versus file size/bandwidth, which requires some projection on which videos will be downloaded the most times in the future (and by which types of clients, with support for which codecs, etc.). Doing this can require a lot of networking/computing/memory/storage resources, and I wonder if the software can scale.
pineapplelover 28 points 2 years ago
I find youtube to be the hardest one on this list
RedSnt 24 points 2 years ago
I was already on Mastodon by just having a Vivaldi (the chromium browser) account, and it's just lovely
I've spent most of the day setting up lemmy, even though I joined feddit.dk 2 years ago, it's only just now I'm taking it seriously.
And, while not related to the fediverse per se, I switched to linux a year ago.
The only service that's hard to drop/switch away from is Youtube imo.
breadcat 22 points 2 years ago
I keep seeing this type stuff but neither peertube or friendica are genuine replacements at this point, mastodon is weaksauce compared to akkoma or a misskey fork, and loops is alpha software. also yes signal is centralized but it just works and has contact discovery so it owns matrix and xmpp when compared to whatsapp. basically none of this stuff is truly ready
Opinionhaver 19 points 2 years ago
Switching from WhatsApp to any other messaging service isn't a realistic option for quite many places. I'd be more than willing to switch but of all the people in my contacts (including my entire customer base) there's like 3 people using Signal but every single one of them has WhatsApp. Even the 60+ year olds.
malcriada_lala 18 points 2 years ago
I like this. I hope it starts conversations. Does anyone know if there are good alternatives to Discord?
MajorHavoc 5 points 2 years ago
Yeah. This guide is going to make some rounds in my peer group. I've got a lot of dissatisfied friends who just need an easy guide to remind them what to try. Very cool!
iconic_admin 16 points 2 years ago
Loop.video is “currently not accepting new members”.
WalrusDragonOnABike 16 points 2 years ago
Feel like Matrix or Email would have made more sense as a federated service for communication, but get Signal is a lot more well known.
AwesomeLowlander 13 points 2 years ago
Also an entirely different thing, email is nothing alike to IMs.
WalrusDragonOnABike 1 point 2 years ago
How so? Seems like just a slightly different UI for the same thing to me?
JackbyDev 9 points 2 years ago
You think email's UI is only "slightly" different than the UI of chats? I disagree very strongly. The two are extremely different. Email is this weird amalgamation of messages and forums depending on how your client displays it and everyone in the email thread is using it. You can have arbitrarily styling in messages. You can send messages to whoever whenever. Chats are much more focused and linear by comparison.
AwesomeLowlander 5 points 2 years ago
Not sure what to say to that. Nobody in my group would consider classic email and IMs equivalent, unless you're layering an extra UI layer on top like what the other commentor mentioned.
WalrusDragonOnABike 1 point 2 years ago
Agreed most others wouldn't use email as a replacement for casual chat, but its always seemed like an arbitrary choice. So many people waste so much space in emails because they treat them like letters, so the biggest difference seems to be the culture around them rather than the medium itself. If people formatted all text messages as
"Hello Dear Friend,
Here is stuff to waste space.
Here's what I actually want to say.
More extra stuff.
Sincerely, Walrus"
I doubt we would see that much of a difference between them.
AwesomeLowlander 4 points 2 years ago
Oh sure, if you're using something like that I can get behind it. But then you're back to the network effect. Probably slightly mitigated since everybody has email, even if they're not getting it in a pretty IM format and won't be replying to it on the spot.
namingthingsiseasy 15 points 2 years ago
I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet... but what I hate most about Signal is its requirement for a phone number. I don't want to be identified, and I want to be able to create multiple separate accounts with different identities if I want to.
I also hate the fact that it's a mobile-first service. Yes, there is a desktop application (and just one really crappy one at that), but it's clearly designed to revolve first and foremost around your phone and be virtually impossible to use without one. As someone who hates writing on a 3-inch screen, this is a also non-starter for me.
I understand the arguments about perfectionism, but this is too much. I'll stick with XMPP, Matrix and IRC, thanks.
chiliedogg 11 points 2 years ago
It's meant to replace people's text messaging apps with .i imal barriers to entry. People's existing SMS/MMS contacts aren't stored by user account names, but by phone number.
When I added Signal to my device, I was able to open up my existing contacts and go.
namingthingsiseasy 7 points 2 years ago
My understanding from what you're writing (and from this article) is that the phone number is really the account number. That's all well and fine, but then they force you to verify that the number is yours (or at the very least, one that you have access to because you need to receive a confirmation over SMS), so you can't use something more private. And sure, it makes it a little harder to find your new contact, but I don't think it's really that big of a deal - just exchange your other "account number" via some other channel.
Besides, don't think for a second that when this identifying information inevitably falls into the wrong hands that it will benefit you in any way. "What are you hiding, citizen?" and all that bullshit.
The part of it that bothers me is the sense of entitlement that these companies exhibit. The "Give us your phone number or fuck off" sentiment is something I just refuse to accept. If Google forces us to do the same and we refuse, what makes Signal think that we'll do it for them when they're so much smaller by comparison? Especially when you're trying to claim you're more secure and private to people that much more tech savvy than average, this just comes off as not understanding your audience very well. I'm sure I'm not the only one that is holding out against using Signal because of this.
chiliedogg 4 points 2 years ago
The last thing we need is more barriers to entry. People have hundreds of SMS /MMS contacts they'vebuilt up over decades. You can't expect people to say "fuck all that" and start over from scratch.
And you also WANT verification unless you want some bot setting up an account with my phone number so they can scam people pretending to be me.
It really sounds like your issue with Signal is it's not the correct service for your use. It's like declaring a wrench bad because it's not good at driving nails.
sexual_tomato 3 points 2 years ago
They used to allow their client to be used to send unsecured SMS. Then they stopped. Whatever they thought they were doing, they killed the simplest path to onboarding laypeople they had. I kinda gave up on signal after that.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
No ones pays for SMS.
autonomoususer -2 points 2 years ago
I’ll
That's why Signal's spreading and your not.
WheelcharArtist 13 points 2 years ago
why signal?
SolarPunker 1 point 2 years ago
Because atm is the most adopted alternative but isn't any better then SimpleX.
WheelcharArtist 2 points 2 years ago
but it is not federated. that would be matrix
MajorHavoc 17 points 2 years ago
Mastodon seems to be filling this niche (professional networking and job seeking) at the moment. I'm curious if something more targeted is emerging yet as well.
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
But will it have the lunatics and toxic positivity?
const_void 13 points 2 years ago
PeerTube appears to be completely devoid of content
PeriodicallyPedantic 2 points 2 years ago
It took a day before I got my activation email. There was no indication on the website it was gonna take that long, but I'm guessing it's early enough that it might still require manual approval.
That said it's still very much a ghost town
PeriodicallyPedantic 1 point 2 years ago
Are you kidding me?
I thought it was more than that when I called it a ghost town.
Imagine if in the entirety of Lemmy, in all channels of all instances, there was a total of 6 posts per hour, and none of them were in channels you wanted to subscribe to.
Mangoholic 13 points 2 years ago
Where is matrix?
WhyJiffie 3 points 2 years ago
Matrix still lacks some signature fearures of discord that its users like, like one-click voice channels (I heard Element is experimenting with it with video) and guild/channel-level roles. role based access control is being planned for a long time, but it doesn't really go forward unfortunately
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
I mean, loops is missing a lot too. Matrix is quite there already.
Nighth4wk 2 points 2 years ago
Here Revolt is suggested as an alternative to Discord which looks quite similar.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
Missing end-to-end encryption
Elrecoal19_0 1 point 2 years ago
So, is Matrix like halfway between Whatsapp and Discord? I downloaded it and I still don't know much about it (not like I have ANYONE I know to test the app with). I felt like it was more Whatsapp-like
Daeraxa 4 points 2 years ago
I think in recent years the lines have been blurred but I would say Matrix is more "Discord-like" because it is account-centric rather than phone-centric and is designed more around communities than 1:1 IM's to replace texting.
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago
I’ve been wanting to test audio and video calls to see if I can use to play TTRPG instead of relying on discord. Sabe issue though, no one to test with. Let me know if you want to test either.
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
Bad on-boarding
Itsapersonn 5 points 2 years ago
Right in the Signal box, it says "Or Matrix/XMPP". It's super tiny for some reason.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot 1 point 2 years ago
It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work; when you go to church; when you pay your taxes.
LandedGentry 12 points 2 years ago path: 0 14840683, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
PersnickityPenguin 12 points 2 years ago
Are any of these actually good?
I mean, aside from Lemmy. I tried Mastadon and no one was actually on it, seems like everyone is jumping to Bluesky.
umbraroze 12 points 2 years ago
I'm not really all that invested in trying out Friendica, because Facebook is basically the exact sort of social network service that I really don't give a darn about. I wanted to check it anyway, but the only tangible information on what Friendica is about is the project/marketing page. I can't browse the instances. If I go to your massive social platform, the last thing I want to see is just a brick wall of a login page. Then I looked at fedidb and... um, those aren't huge user numbers.
So I guess I'll keep posting on the services that seem more sensible to me, like Mastodon, Pixelfed and Lemmy.
Elrecoal19_0 12 points 2 years ago
In my case I deleted instagram, instead of whatsapp I'm going to Matrix (I'll see who I get there), I changed Reddit for Lemmy and I'm trying to find an active Peertube instance that allows for account creation, live, and uploading videos
kemsat 11 points 2 years ago
Is there an app for Loops.video?
Edit: Go to https://loops.video/ Make an account, and you should get an email afterwards to download the app from TestFlight or an Android APK.
DieserTypMatthias 6 points 2 years ago
Signal is better than WA tho.
jerkface 5 points 2 years ago
I miss Jabber so much. There was a brief time where my one XMPP client and an easy to install server could let me chat with everyone I knew, whether they were on ICQ, Y!, gchat, MSN, IRC, or AIM. We fucking HAD interoperability.
ColeSloth 9 points 2 years ago
Loops really seems like it sucks. You can't see how long any video is, there's no way to thumb down really bad videos, and about 80% of all the videos seem like "really bad videos". I never even used tik tok, but im sure it wasn't content similar or it never would have gotten popular.
Supernova1051 9 points 2 years ago
loops is still very early in development. people need to tamper their expectations.
acockworkorange 0 points 2 years ago
It’s for short form videos, it’s mimicking its competitors UX right now (namely YouTube shorts, Instagram reels and TikTok). Neither has thumb down or show you how long a video is.
As for content… the users generate content, not the software. So… how many good videos have you uploaded?
alzymologist 9 points 2 years ago
This should promote matrix, not signal
FlyingSquid 9 points 2 years ago
Unfortunately, I don't know a single person who uses Friendica, and that is also, unfortunately, self-defeating because there's no way I could convince them to go without more than just me using it.
FundMECFSResearch 7 points 2 years ago
Apparently it makes a good RSS feed aggregator if nothing else.
stevo887 5 points 2 years ago
And that makes it a Facebook replacement how? Facebook is terrible and the only reason I ever go there is to check in on people I know. I don’t understand Friendica at all. I can get all the social interaction I need from Mastodon, BlueSky and Lemmy if my goal isn’t people I know and just like minded people.
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
Funny, when Facebook started there was almost no one I knew there either. It was its doom. It crashed and burned before it even got off the ground. Orkut still reigns supreme.
stevo887 1 point 2 years ago
I’ve never heard of Orkut, the only Google social network I ever used was Google+. When I first heard about Facebook I couldn’t even sign up because my college wasn’t a supported .edu…lol and I guess the Facebook format/design isn’t inherently bad, just the algorithm is horrendous. There are more adds and post from suggested groups than people and groups I follow on my feed. Then the post from Threads a social network I don’t even use forced on me and adds in the notifications. It’s just a garbage experience and way of going about things. Although it’s still hard to see the point of an alternative that the people I know IRL aren’t on when I have Mastodon, BlueSky and Lemmy for like minded people.
TehWorld 8 points 2 years ago
I’ve been on Signal for a while now. Have a bunch of groups but iMessage works with everyone.
It’s been a year and a half here on Lemmy. I still spend a lot of time on Reddit, but won’t comment there anymore.
I don’t WANT a Twitter replacement as it’s really only for celebs and idgaf.
I actually see enough value to pay for YT premium (kids complain incessantly about ads).
Friendica doesn’t seem to have an iOS app, and there’s a critical mass issue with wanting to connect with people that I know in real life.
I’m trying to get my Pixelfed feed to be with checking, and trying to be a regular poster, but it’s still REALLY sparse, and none of these offer the endless meme-video-clip scroll that my wife will have to have before switching away from Insta.
pfr 3 points 2 years ago
It will. I did the same thing a couple years ago. Make sure you share links to things like articles, videos, news, from the fediverse to your contacts. That helps them switch, when they see the platform in their mobile browser.
LovableSidekick 8 points 2 years ago
Great graphic! The only things I use on this list are reddit and youtube. Trying peertube now. I'm confused about whatsapp and facebook messenger - don't people just use the texting app that comes with their phone?
LostSundial 2 points 2 years ago
You can't text abroad for free. I guess texting is fine if you only communicate within the country.
autonomoususer 2 points 2 years ago
No one pays for SMS.
autonomoususer 2 points 2 years ago
postpaid
phlegmy 2 points 2 years ago
Sms is bad if you care about privacy, but great for voyeurs.
I frequently send dick pics between two of my phone numbers with fake messages about selling drugs and blowing things up attached, triggering them for a manual review in the government/carrier’s office.
Signal is very useful for minorities and anyone who’s actually planning a terrorist attack.
acockworkorange 1 point 2 years ago
SMS is so ass, I can’t even.
reev 11 points 2 years ago
The app is really bare bones. It's also not federated (yet, but use a product for what it is right now, not what it promises to be).
Has potential but also dansup keeps running head-first into controversial takes.
dumbass 8 points 2 years ago
My favourite Dansup line is " It's coming this weekend" not sure when this weekend is supposed to come around tho.
From what I've seen on the loops discord he's about to open source the app and self hosted backend real soon, he's been reaching out for people to set up and test out the server code.
Same with federation, that's not far away, I think he wants to test how the different instances connect to each other first before the wider federation.
He's finally starting to look for coders to help him with the backend and app tho, so that's a good start.
reev 3 points 2 years ago
And I really do appreciate that. He's doing some good stuff and really hope pixelfed and loops (and sup) continue on the momentum that they've got and gain a substantial enough Userbase that they're really enjoyable to use. Just wanted to add the extra context because I think that's relevant too!
dumbass 3 points 2 years ago
He just really needs to let people help him more, he makes good stuff but it's kinda obvious it's getting a bit much for him sometimes, which is how we ended up with the stuff in your link lol.
A few times I've jumped in to the pixelfed discord before he split loops into its own one and he'd be in some crazy long rant, then you'd see him delete all his messages, dude needs a break or to delegate some of his work to the people who keep asking to help.
Good dude tho, just needs a rest I think, the tik tok thing kinda put some pressure on him to get it going quicker I think.
mergingapples 7 points 2 years ago
Ok, downloaded peertube (because to hell with Google and YouTube) looked around... Um, is there not too much to look at right now? Are the people I normally watch on YouTube unable to be seen on peertube? Don't get me wrong, all about decentralized everything but if the people I like aren't there I'm feeling a bit up a creek.
Or, more likely, am I missing something? Forgive me, please, I am rather new to this concept and how to work the federations and such.
Rawdogthatexe 14 points 2 years ago
It's not an alternate way to view Youtube, it's a totally separate service. You're not missing anything, if no one's using it to post content, then there's no content. Youtube is a tough one to compete with because the infrastructure needed to host that much data and distribute it is insane. Peertube is super niche and not many know about it, but I do wonder how fast scaling would become a problem if it suddenly got an influx of new users.
Elrecoal19_0 4 points 2 years ago
Apart from that, it has to compete against the content monopoly Youtube has on the video platform industry.
meldrik 5 points 2 years ago
The app is not really that great yet. I suggest to check this page out for content creators on PeerTube: https://peertube.wtf/home and also this list: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15810205
If you are also looking for a PeerTube server to register on, I suggest you look here: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago path: 0 14824315 14827113 14841071, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 3
acockworkorange 2 points 2 years ago path: 0 14824315 14827113 14841071 14841451 14841784, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
Wxnzxn 5 points 2 years ago
Are the people I normally watch on YouTube unable to be seen on peertube?
Basically this. There are some creators that either switched or publish on both platforms, mainly from the Linux sphere (and, unfortunately, also some crackpots and/or scammers who got kicked from other platforms), but overall, it doesn't have a lot of content, especially content that's on a "professional" level.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol 4 points 2 years ago path: 0 14824315 14824975, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
meldrik 3 points 2 years ago
There will definitely be few content creators who post to PeerTube, if they are dependent on ad revenue. Those creators that are not, have a much easier time posting to PeerTube, because they essentially expand their reach.
Winterfrost 6 points 2 years ago
Fediverse is awesome!!
FundMECFSResearch 5 points 2 years ago
Here’s a link you can use to share this post with your friends. The default share link makes you have to click to see the picture and many users will be confused and not click it.
Fedegenerate 4 points 2 years ago
I got the PeerTube android app. It's very bare bones. As a first foray into peertube I'm not sure it's the way to go. I think I've set myself up for failure.
Anycase, I'll dedicate some time to try find some pocket of content I like tomorrow. Getting away from YouTube sure would be nice.
argoniantradwife 5 points 2 years ago
May I recommend NewPipe on android? It's a proxy for YouTube/Bandcamp/Plus a bunch of other stuff including Peertube. As a creator, Peertube is nice, but yea, using it as a full time video watching platform just isn't viable rn unfortunately.
Natanox 7 points 2 years ago
NewPipe is awful for Peertube. You have to add AND SEARCH every single instance manually. It's only useful if there is a creator on a specific instance that you specifically want to watch.
missandry351 4 points 2 years ago
I already done my part. I only keep WhatsApp for professional reasons (and barely use it) but the rest is already done. 😁
missandry351 3 points 2 years ago
An change your email to protonmail or tutamail. Starve those gmails, outlooks, iCloud’s and etc
missandry351 8 points 2 years ago
Yes I noticed that, that’s why I changed to tutamail. It’s everywhere this neofascism wild capitalism thing
SolarPunker 0 points 2 years ago
Email is a shitty protocol we should abandon
missandry351 1 point 2 years ago
I need to use email to work
SolarPunker 1 point 2 years ago
What you need is not always what the world needs.
metaStatic 3 points 2 years ago
isn't that just every day?
the_swagmaster 3 points 2 years ago
Thank you, this covers everything I could have thought of!
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
No, that's anti-libre software.
Elrecoal19_0 2 points 2 years ago
Wouldn't Matrix be a better alternative to Signal, since it doesn't need a number? Maybe it has a too difficult learning curve to the average user, though
arunshah240 2 points 2 years ago
Facebook messenger to sup fediverse messages platform
autonomoususer 1 point 2 years ago
Loops is anti-libre software.
autonomoususer 2 points 2 years ago
Loops fails to include a libre software license text file, like GPL, so we do not control it, very dangerous.
vala 1 point 2 years ago
Fails to or refuses to?
Edit: just took at look at their repo and there is indeed no license. Looking at the issues I can't find anyone mentioning it. Maybe an oversight?
Edit2: looking at the backend server repo, it does say that it's AGPL but you are correct there is no license.txt.
PixelPilgrim 1 point 2 years ago
as i say peertube is currently a alt to twitch as well as youtube
iwasnormalonce 1 point 2 years ago
Can anyone send me a link to the android version of loops.video, I can't see it on the play store
Ghosthacked 0 points 2 years ago
BlueSky is the transfer from X. Mastodon isn't it bro
Leate_Wonceslace -4 points 2 years ago
Snubbing bluesky is a great way to get people to not take you seriously. When you're making a recruitment thing like this you need to remember you're trying to draw in people who don't fully agree with you.
Leate_Wonceslace 1 point 2 years ago path: 0 14818620 14819288 14819544 14819701 14838422, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Leate_Wonceslace 0 points 2 years ago
Things I've learned: the people in this community hate bluesky on principle, their principles are insular and toxic, and they can't read.
This is why people aren't going to mastadon more than Bluesky; because y'all're insufferable. I made the comment in context of the post, so why would you ignore it?
Leate_Wonceslace 1 point 2 years ago
The fact that you or anyone thinks that matters is part of the problem. Not every federated site needs to be federated with every other federated site. That's half the point of federation.
Filthmontane -12 points 2 years ago
Or just go to rednote instead
GrammarPolice -23 points 2 years ago
Mastodon ❌
Bluesky ✅
fediverse
@lemmy.world
44403
3384
5010
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, Mbin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration)
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fediverse
@lemmy.world
44403
3384
5010
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, Mbin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration)
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Signal isn't federated ^[1][2][3.1]^; it's decentralized ^[1][2][3.2]^. Though, for all practical purposes, I would generally argue that it's centralized.
References
save