Summary
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth denied allegations that he texted classified war plans to a Signal group chat that mistakenly included The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg.
The National Security Council confirmed the chat’s authenticity but called the inclusion of Goldberg an inadvertent mistake.
Lawmakers from both parties demanded investigations, with former CIA Director Leon Panetta warning of potential espionage violations.
Hegseth dismissed Goldberg as a "deceitful" journalist. Trump denied knowledge of the incident.
My seed of hope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT-2EobJKzE
In my circle they are, thankfully.
Don’t hold your breath. The Repubs will just say they haven’t read the news.
While acknowledging that Trump voters are emotional and fear-prone, they're not entirely stupid and generally not cultists, probably, maybe. Can we have some sliver of hope? The ones I know are certainly not stupid but are tragically misinformed and savants of confirmation bias. I've also noticed that they care a great deal. It seems more like a target misalignment problem than a broken turret.
The ones I know are certainly not stupid but are tragically misinformed and savants of confirmation bias
Can you please define "stupid"? Because this feels like a very apt definition of the word you're trying to use
They don't care.
He's hurting people they hate, that's all they care about.
He knows they have the screenshots and the NSC confirmed it, right?
NSC statement: "At this time, the message thread that was reported appears to be authentic, and we are reviewing how an inadvertent number was added to the chain. The thread is a demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials. The ongoing success of the Houthi operation demonstrates that there were no threats to our servicemembers or our national security." - NSC Spokesman Brian Hughes
The Trump administration does not deny this Signal group chat about the war planning for the Yemen strikes is real. Trump’s top national security advisers added reporter
@JeffreyGoldberg
@TheAtlantic
to the war planning text chain on non-government social media app, perhaps breaking secrecy laws. Read this shocking story below.
Pro tip: if you change the x.com to xcancel.com you can make the link use a twitter mirror and not give Musk revenue if people click on the link
More "sourcing the quote" than anything else, but thanks!
Sigh. Todays word of the day is kakistocracy.
A lot of people assume this is the correct way to speak because it's chronologically correct, but the general consensus in the trans community is that she was always Chelsea Manning, and always was a woman, and the time that she spent using the other name and gender need not be reflected upon. I do not know how Chelsea Manning personally feels about this, and every individual is entitled to their own respect, however the general etiquette when you do not know is to NOT deadname or misgender them, regardless of what era of their life you are referring to.
This is not an attack. Just a PSA.
Have a peaceful evening.
I respectfully disagree with that consensus.
Her legal name was Bradley Manning when she was charged and tried: https://web.archive.org/...
When referring to legal proceedings it only makes sense to use someone's legal name during those proceedings. Court documents do not get retroactively updated when someone changes their name.
Ultimately, what is disrespectful to Chelsea Manning is entirely determined by Chelsea Manning not the Lemmy Community, Military Community, Trans Community, or any other group.
Nobody gets to be offended for me, and I am the sole determiner of what is respectful and disrespectful to me.
All that is true. In addition, those communications are subject to records retention laws, so using signal and flagging them to be deleted is illegal in itself.
You dumb fuck, there are screenshots of all of it, plus your own people admitted it
These dipshits can't get their thumbs out of each other's butts long enough to get their story straight. I'd laugh if I thought there would be any real consequences for this nonsense.
Only 46 months to go...
pete hegseth was a DUI hire.
He's in a really unique position in that he can claim to not remember doing something awful, and most likely be telling the truth.
At least Nixon recorded himself
Wow how did I never think of this.
To be clear, Hegseth (the guy with a history of getting blackout drunk) isn't the same as Michael Waltz, the guy who invited Goldberg to the chat.
https://www.theatlantic.com/...
https://www.theatlantic.com/...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Waltz
Waltz, unlike Hegseth, is not a random idiot, he definitely knows better.
"Waltz received four Bronze Stars while serving in the Special Forces during multiple combat tours in Afghanistan, the Middle East, and Africa. He served in the Bush administration as a defense policy director in the Pentagon and as counterterrorism advisor to Vice President Dick Cheney."
As far as Hegseth (or any of the rest of them for that matter) was concerned, the list was all vetted and pre-approved people.
The fact that NONE of them actually vetted the list before saying anything speaks volumes.
They went down the line asking "Hey, who else in your department needs to be a contact on this?" and they all sounded off one by one, except Goldberg.
Nobody thought to ask "Hey, J.G., we haven't heard from you yet. In fact, wait, who is J.G.?"
JFC we have better OPSEC in EvE Online!
Waltz, unlike Hegseth, is not a random idiot, he definitely knows better.
I'm pressing X to doubt so hard rn
You don't get to work for Cheney if you're an idiot.
Please, allow me to introduce you to Mr. Waltz as rebuking proof to your statement
That was ages ago. Each covid infection causes brain damage, each person has had covid 4 to 8 times by now, and older people are hurt the most by covid... So even if the guy was smart 30 years ago, we can't assume he is smart today
This makes me wonder if this was part of a ploy to let the public know how messed up things are in a “blink twice if you need help” kind of way. Or did Waltz feel these people are undeserving of their cabinet appointments and so managed to lift the veil so we can all see it? Is he mad that he wasn’t considered for the Secretary of Defense position? Is this his way of being Jim from The Office and looking into the camera?
6 years strong! Wooooo! Congrats!
Working the playbook. Step 1: Deny
Lmfao
The editor in chief of The Atlantic wrote an op-ed on the whole episode, and they have corroborated and confirmed from multiple sources that he was, indeed, inadvertently shown data that is considered SCI in a Signal group chat that was likely conducted through the personal devices of administration officials.
There is no debate here. That happened. This is like rear ending someone in your car and totaling both vehicles and just refusing to even acknowledge that you even felt anything.
I agree with your position, but think it's even worse than the situation depicted in your analogy because of the security implications and the accountability implications. I don't know how to represent those in your analogy, though. Lol
Isn't the issue that Signal messages aren't stored on the phone and can be set to auto delete after some time? So there's no tracking of official federal business? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?
Signal messages ARE stored on the phone. They're briefly stored on the signal servers with end to end encryption as well until they are transmitted to all the recipients, at which point signal deletes them from their server. And yes they can be auto-deleted.
Once they are on the phone though, all the encryption benefits are up to the user.
Did they password protect signal? Is their phone itself encrypted at rest? How long after the phone is unlocked and signal opened do the messages remain unencrypted where malware could then access them? How long does the phone remain unlocked once the password is entered but the screen is turned off? Are they even using secure passwords on phones or simple 4 digit pins?
No you're absolutely right and the fact that this is apparently common practice in the admin is revelatory.
Legally yes. Practically, the people handling the FOIA request do not know about it and do not have access to it, so they will not look at it when responding to a FOIA request. Also practically, if you submit a FOIA request for operational details of military action, the response will be no, and every judge you stand before to challenge that no will side with the government.
I think Signal is getting tarred unfairly here. The thing that made that channel insecure was their ineptitude, not verifying who was in the group.
They gave a journalist the encryption key to their secure channel.
There's other, record keeping related, concerns with them using signal for communicating, but I don't think the security of Signal is being called into question when used properly.
Correct. Signal is still an excellent app. The problem is that it can have a wide array of contacts that can be added by the slip of a thumb (aka User Error). I’d imagine that secure government software does not happen to have the editors in chief of major news publications saved on there. They probably also have a flag coded in there that alerts you if someone without proper security clearance is added by mistake.
Maybe?
May those who live like him die like him: painful, alone, and ironic
Don't forget Tuli was on the chat too, I sure do feel safe with our inept leaders.
Sooo Pete didn’t do it, but trump also says that Pete learned his lesson?
US is a joke. A very dangerous joke.
Admit it but say it isn't a big deal, but also deny that it ever happened. Let your followers pick whichever version they prefer. Profit!
Except the journalist
Yeah, I think this is right. I don't even have the signal app on my phone but carrots got me in to a meeting of the board of Coca Cola. It's definitely carrots.
In past times, resignations would have been required over something like this.
Ah, going with denial in the face of concrete evidence to the contrary
Classic Trump move
yes, so typical and yet so effective so far.
Phase 1: eat a baby in plain view at a crowded event
Phase 2: get really angry and personally attack anybody who mentions it and their employer
Phase 3: after a few days just roll your eyes and dismiss with "again with that baby thing?"
If nothing serious happens right after phase 1, holding onto this as future political ammo seems to be worthless. I really hope I'm wrong and that the accumulation of these things is enough to turn enough of Trump's base against him but they accumulated a whole fricking lot by now and there is still room for more...
You're right Pete. It wasn't texting.
It was RCS through an untraceable encrypted messaging app named Signal
Which is WORSE since records are destroyed
About the technical part, Signal uses the Signal Protocol instead of RCS. (Google also uses the Signal Protocol to encrypt some RCS messages in Google Messages, but the Signal Protocol and RCS are not the same thing.)
Well shit you know what I mean ..messaging with data. But thanks for the specifics I knew it wasn't RCS but that's all I could think of
"You're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again...This is a guy who peddles in garbage.
Hegseth then added, "oh wait, that's me."
Why is nobody talking about the fact that we are bombing Yemen? Yes, including a random person in a text channel talking classified information is a problem. But, why are we just brushing off the actual chat contents?
That's not an excuse. There were huge ass protests over the Vietnam War, and the Iraq War. Putting pressure on officials to end this bullshit os worthwhile. Shrugging, and saying meh, it is what it is is super unhelpful.
You can protest the bombing of yemen and you will be doing a noble thing and get zero attention and have zero impact.
If you clown on them for inviting a journalist into their secret consequence free war chat - you will recieve lots of attention and potentially play a part in forcing some of these gouls to resign.
Exactly, they aren't ashamed of being evil, but they are ashamed of being incompetent
There's a couple reasons -
- It wasn't so much "bombing Yemen" as it was, bombing a terrorist organization within Yemen's borders. This is something every American administration has done for decades. That makes it poor political fodder, you can't "one up" the competition with it.
- Most Americans would agree that the Houthis, once it is explained to them who they are, need to be bombed. The actual action would be reprehensible to some, but acceptable to most. You can't put pressure on an admin to change their tactics when they feel they have a plurality of support.
- The sad and undeniable fact is that in American politics - American lives are simply more important than foreign ones. That's not really unique to American culture, it's not meant as a criticism, it's just a sad reality. Bombing Yemen is pretty low risk for American lives - but sloppy OPSEC put American lives at huge risk so that's where the focus is.
In a perfect world, the fact that America is committing violence in other nations and is not realistically reigned in by International Laws or Treaties would be a point worth getting upset about. But that fact is over 100 years old and has been successfully normalized. The idea of incompetent buffoons operating the Department of Defense like a bunch of frat boys trying to organize a kegger is marginally newer and more impactful on the national psyche.
I can't believe I've found an actual adult on a lemmy thread.
I don't think we're ignoring that, so much as there is an overwhelming amount of bad shit to talk about stemming from this single incident.
And to be honest the bigger issue revealed here isn't the failure to protect classified information or that they're bombing Yemen (In a vacuum at least) right now but the fact that they are violating the law also by using an app that destroys documentation of their conversations. This has implications not only legally or militaristically but also that they know they want to do shit that would be illegal and evil enough that they don't even want to use standard classified channels, not just bombing of Yemen but probably more future evil shit.
So it’s like hazing now?
That doesn't make it a good thing. Should we just accept that the U.S. military industrial complex is what it is, and shrug it off? Bcz that's what you're suggesting.
Im sure the people being bombed in Yemen feel the same way...
This is the real waste fraud and abuse. Lockheed Martin testing out it’s ww3 tech on Houthi
They're bombing the Houthis rebels who are (were?) fucking with the red sea shipping route to protest Israel, but I'm not sure how much they're still fucking with it today. The Yemen government isn't fully in control of Yemen.
Here: The Trump Administration Accidentally Texted Me Its War Plans By Jeffrey Goldberg
The account identified as “JD Vance” addressed a message at 8:45 to @Pete Hegseth: “if you think we should do it let’s go. I just hate bailing Europe out again.” (The administration has argued that America’s European allies benefit economically from the U.S. Navy’s protection of international shipping lanes.)
The user identified as Hegseth responded three minutes later: “VP: I fully share your loathing of European free-loading. It’s PATHETIC. But Mike is correct, we are the only ones on the planet (on our side of the ledger) who can do this. Nobody else even close. Question is timing. I feel like now is as good a time as any, given POTUS directive to reopen shipping lanes. I think we should go; but POTUS still retains 24 hours of decision space.”
🎵Journalist caught me on Signal (It wasn't me)
He saw me schemin' on Yemen (It wasn't me)
Even list of ordinance (It wasn't me)
He even caught me on a screenshot (It wasn't me)
He saw the bombs dropping on Sanaa (It wasn't me)
Heard the words the CIA told me (It wasn't me)
Late night host laughter getting louder (It wasn't me)
Shouldn't have drunk that vodka!🎶
Oh that's a fun fact. Did not know.
Jesus, these people are so fucking predictable.
House Speaker Mike Johnson to reporters on Monday after news of the messages spread: "I just was with the president in the Oval Office just now. The administration is addressing what happened. Apparently, an inadvertent phone number made it onto that thread. They are going to track that down and make sure it doesn't happen again."
Sounds great, how about we start by following fucking protocol? And not using a chat app on a damn mobile phone to have discussions on this scale?? Huh???
Fuck you Pete 'DUI Hire' Hegseth.
You used a non-approved communication application and caused a massive data leak with you and your incompetent morons in office using OpSec that my junior engineers know better and if any one else did what you did, that's be fired and be facing charges.
Fucking pathetic children who can't take any accountability.
inadvertent mistake.
Lets give the benefit of the doubt and say it was a mistake. Is that a matter and a position, where such a mistake is tolerable? Or is it something that disqualifies for any position in that domain and demands immediate resignation?
Because if you seriously make a mistake, and you realize the gravity of it, you take responsibility for it. If you instead remain in position, you either don't recognize the gravity of it, which is an even bigger reason to resign, or you indeed acted with intent.
But in this case it did not start with inviting Goldberg. It started with making a chat group on an unauthorized app, likely using unauthorized devices to discuss matters that are explicitly forbidden to be taken out of specific permitted official channels.
Having complete morons in charge does confer particular tactical advantages.
Prove that the sender of that message doesn't match the cryptographic fingerprint of Hegseth. If he didn't send it, then it wont match.
Signal allows you to verify all your contacts in the group chat.
This is so easy to solve. Jfc
https://support.signal.org/...
The journalist just has to show the safety number of the person who sent it, and hegseth has to verify it with his device. They're obviously already in each others contacts, or at least are aware of each other's presence in the group chat. Its pretty hard to ignore some random journalist entering the chat since it alerts the entire group.
What makes signal great is, yes, privacy, but also the authentication of your contacts. You know you can't possibly be talking to someone else's device if you have verified their safety number.
"Wasn't me"
— Pete Hegseth
Ah yes, the classic Shaggy defense. What's that shit conservatives say? We're still in the first year.
"Nuh uh" is what you're going with, huh? The screenshots, the validation from your own administration... and your response is "didnt happen"?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"
I'm not usually an alarmist, but this one has the hair on the back of my neck up...
This feels like a false flag to target journalists spreading "misinformation."
I was reading the Atlantic article thinking 'What a bunch of dumb fucks." Until I read this part:
The Hegseth message goes on to state, “Waiting a few weeks or a month does not fundamentally change the calculus. 2 immediate risks on waiting: 1) this leaks, and we look indecisive
Hard stop right there. "This is intentional."
Then Tulsi comes out talking about "aggressively pursuing" journalists., and now P Heggs is just gonna play dumb?
Smells pretty bad, imo.
(False flag may not be the right term here, but I hope my point is still clear enough)
I think it was a deliberate leak. A mole from inside the administration is trying to warn us of Trump’s actions before he does them.
>Signal is most secure with these new usernames and group chat links, sir, let me arrange this for the whole small group from your account
Ya but… stupidity… hmmm 🤷♂️
If someone left their phone unlocked, that’d make sense. (I assume a serious wartime messaging app would make it very difficult to just leave unlocked like that… could be doing lots of biometrics too)
and we look indecisive
Ugh. I didn’t want to agree with you but this little flex for the faithful seals it.
And yet the information was valid and confirmed? The bombs dropped right when Signal User "Pete Hegseth" said they would; NSC confirmed this was a genuine thread. It seems too elaborate to be a false flag event.
International warfare seems pretty elaborate to me, or am I misunderstanding your point?
I think so...
The attack wasn't the "false flag" (I think I misused that term), that was going to happen anyway. I think adding a journalist to their little group chat about it was.
They knew it would come out, and now they have the pretext to start going more aggresively after journalists spreading "deceitful" information.
I'm not saying I'm right, it just stinks.
Pete blames it on his wife who he's going to beat later on. She should have told him that journalists can take screenshots.
Oh sure, now he wants to wash his hands of something.
I want to see the contents of the text message. Holy shit, what a bunch of dumb fucks.
I'm a little surprised that article name wasn't taken.
Thank you. Yep, every single one of those motherfucking Russian supporting losers should be shit canned.
Oops
"Uh, wasn't me." -Sec Def
They're saying he didn't share classified war plans and you need to check the word usage with such lies. What probably happened was that they declassified everything that was shared. So what he is saying is now technically correct - the war plans are not classified. So he did not share 'classified' plans. This would also mean Tulsi is not 'lying' when she says that no classified information was shared. Typical obfuscation of facts by words.
I demand consequences
No justice without truth, Congress won't impeach and DOJ won't prosecute, we've been here before with Mueller and the insurrection.
Don’t be negative. Push for change. Protest! https://www.mobilize.us/
To be fair he was probably blacked out at the time
First reaction from the republicans, This was a mistake, and we all make mistakes. Second round, these messages show how great our officials at doing their jobs and making the hard decisions. The latest , that never happened to begin with, it's a disgraced news outlet and a disgraced journalist. Even their spin doctors are dumb as fuck. Pick one and stick with it you imbeciles...this abc politics
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Ah yes - the classic Trump approach.... just yell Fake News as loud as possible.
save