2010-04-12

a year ago by m_‮f to c/cyanideandhappiness

sturlabragason 83 points a year ago path: 0 17520821, hotness: undefined, score: 83, children: 0
qjkxbmwvz 78 points a year ago

If you eat basically any form of meat, I have some bad news for you...

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grysbok 27 points a year ago

I do give deer hunting a pass because they're overpopulated in places (because humans wiped out their native predators).

Feel free to try and change my mind so I can wipe that off my ever-shrinking personal "ethically ok to eat meats" list. For all I know this is one of those lies I was raised with that I've not examined since childhood. Edit: context is in Kentucky, USA 20 years ago. I don't know about deer populations elsewhere and elsewhen.

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ArsonButCute 50 points a year ago

Former vegan, current pescatarian here.

Dont stop hunting, please. Humans did a phenomenal job of ensuring a required hunting season for deer by wiping out all the natural predators, now without them we have to have culls. If you participate in said culls, PLEASE eat the meat, use the pelt, give the antlers to your dog. We've forced ourselves into a position where some of us MUST take up the mantle of predator. If you choose to, just be responsible with the carcass so it didn't die for no good reason.

Edit: accidentally lied, I'm not a vegetarian I'm a pescatarian who outside of her 6 shrimp a week is vegan.

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grysbok 22 points a year ago

To add a wrinkle: there's now "farmed deer". It's supposedly more environmentally friendly than farmed cow, but I don't like it because •vague feelings I've not fully examined•.

So don't assume any venison you find in the grocery store was hunted.

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ArsonButCute 10 points a year ago

Wow, thanks, I hate it!

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isVeryLoud 8 points a year ago

Vague feelings? I think your feelings are pretty spot-on, farming an animal whose population is already excessive in the wild is bizarre.

Wild deer are more environmentally friendly than farmed deer.

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Machinist 4 points a year ago

Farmed cervids are why CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) is a thing. It's a prion disease. Farmed venison has a high probability of being CWD positive.

It's called a high fence operation. Rich fucks actually pay for a canned hunt inside the fence so they get a big antlered wall hanger.

Myself and my family like to eat does. Curbs population faster and tends to be better meat. We live in a county that is overpopulated with white tail.

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v4ld1z 3 points a year ago

sorry but former vegan? what happened?

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Korhaka 4 points a year ago

Stopped eating a vegan diet I would imagine

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ArsonButCute 2 points a year ago

I opened up my diet to the occasional fish (scrimps) because I hadn't managed to force enough flax into my diet to have all the omegas I need.

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TheEighthDoctor 2 points a year ago

This applies boars as well

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qjkxbmwvz 7 points a year ago

Only time I've eaten meat in the past ~30 years was when I ate some invasive fish that had been caught in a killathon to restore native habitat. Not that it's my role to "give you a pass," but I certainly do in this case!

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grysbok 13 points a year ago

Apparently there's spear fisherfolk in Florida that kill invasive lionfish and provide them to local restaurants. I'm all for killing and eating invasive species.

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qjkxbmwvz 5 points a year ago

That's exactly what I ate :)

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skisnow 1 point a year ago
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ryedaft 1 point a year ago

Pretty sure you can hunt nursing deer in most places.

Edit: can't! You can't hunt while the babies are babies.

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grysbok 2 points a year ago

The hunting season is timed such that most fans are weaned before un-antlered adults may be shot. Source: Kentucky department of fish & wildlife summer camp in the 90s. Unfortunately, deer aren't always born or weaned according to statistics, but the law tries to prevent it.

This article on the ethics of shooting a doe with fawn from the hunter's view corroborates this. CW: bloodless photo of a dead deer

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ryedaft 2 points a year ago

CAN'T!

Ducking autocarrot.

But I think fin whales nurse for 2+ years making seasons a bit tricky (with some of the big whales the bulls have a quite ungentlemanly behaviour towards calfs iirc).

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mathemachristian 19 points a year ago

Or drink milk. Vegetarians don't get a pass.

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 12 points a year ago

I only drink polar bear milk. I find the chalky cod liver oil taste delightful.

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Vanilla_PuddinFudge 4 points a year ago
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Psythik 17 points a year ago

There's whale meat in my steak!?

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sexy_peach 48 points a year ago

I mean yes, but what do you think happens to regular fish

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sharkfucker420 40 points a year ago

Many of us are against that too. Whales just happen to be exceedingly intelligent and capable of forming powerful emotional bonds

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 38 points a year ago

So are pigs.

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Railcar8095 -8 points a year ago

Counterpoint: bacon

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v4ld1z 4 points a year ago

vegan bacon

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 4 points a year ago

It's genuinely not nearly as good as people like to believe. It's not even in the top 10 pig products.

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mathemachristian 1 point a year ago

Treatlerbrain neuron activated

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Korhaka 1 point a year ago

You do make a rather crispy point.

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ShinkanTrain 19 points a year ago

Farm animals have it even worse

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ryedaft 37 points a year ago

Whales are the farmers of the sea. They fertilize the open oceans and produce more food than they eat. Especially the biggest ones, like the fin whales Japan has decided to hunt again. So if you like sea food, maybe don't kill the whales.

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Nangijala -14 points a year ago

I get your point, but let's not compare them to one of the biggest polluters in the world. Farmers fucking destroy our planet.

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kapulsa 34 points a year ago

This is not an isolated issue. This is how we treat animals and other humans (regarding the harpooning, we only do it figuratively to other humans, not literally).

Go vegan.

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Noodle07 21 points a year ago

We do it literally to other humans, look Gaza or South Sudan

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kapulsa 7 points a year ago

You're right. Probably should be mostly figuratively to humans, but also literally. And we also do it figuratively to the whales by destroying and polluting the ocean ecosystems.

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aeshna_cyanea 9 points a year ago

People's morality about slaughtering meat is going to flip so hard once we get affordable lab grown meat, future generations will think of us as utter savages. But until then I don't think it's going to happen at scale

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Ephera 6 points a year ago

I doubt, it's going to make any sudden jumps. We have various vegan meat alternatives already, which are good, and you still have plenty people that feel personally attacked by the existence of morals, because they base their personality on eating dead animals.

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I_Has_A_Hat 10 points a year ago

Maybe that's because most of the vegan meat alternatives don't taste like what they're trying to replace, have a weird texture, or cause horrible gas/stomach problems.

We haven't cracked a good meat substitute yet, at least not for people that enjoy the real thing. We're close, but we're just not there yet.

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Bytemeister 8 points a year ago

I think it's a real shame too. I've had some fantastic veggie/potato burger. You gotta drop all pretense of the patty being meat, and instead just focus on making it tasty.

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theolodis 2 points a year ago

So you're saying for you to stop causing unnecessary suffering, solely for the pleasure of your taste buds, you'd need a perfect 1:1 replacement, because otherwise you're valuing a good meal more than not being a monster to animals?

Then let me ask, how many meat substitutes have you tasted so far? An estimate would do.

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Ephera 1 point a year ago

You've interpreted very different goal posts into my comment than I intended. My comment was deliberately unspecific, because I'm well aware that we all live in different situations. I can buy vegan meatballs in the shop, which taste like the real thing, but if I lived in a more rural region or in a different country, I might not be able to.

But what's essentially universal to the human experience is that there's some decent vegan protein source, which folks could be eating more of, if they wanted to. So, I'm not talking about switching over wholesale here. I'm saying most people could be eating more nuts, peas, beans, lentils, hummus, tofu, vegan meatballs, whatever. You're gonna find something.

Lots of folks don't even engage with that option, though. Either they're too lazy to learn something new, or they're psychopaths who don't care about morals in the first place, or they're caught up in identity politics of "I need to be strong, because I'm suffering from toxic masculinity, and to be strong, I need to be eating meat". And particularly in the last case, they often associate meat and manliness with their food having bled out.

As such, in terms of actual morality, lab-grown meat will

  • maybe catch a few of the lazy folks, because they really don't have to exert even the slightest thought anymore, whether it's equivalent to what they usually eat,
  • not get through to the psychopaths, because those never care about morals, and
  • have a hard time with the toxic masculinity crowd. Maybe some of them will be rational enough that it's the same thing in the end, and so even though they're irrational in their belief that they need it for manliness, they might still accept it. But especially if the lab-grown meat isn't immediately perfect, I expect there to be persistent pushback, that it's not the real deal and whatever. The meat industry will gladly spread propaganda to reinforce that.
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v4ld1z 3 points a year ago

💚

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buddascrayon 2 points a year ago

What does veganism have to do with opposing whale hunting?

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falcunculus 5 points a year ago

It's not just whales, one could draw the same comic about other animals being hunted or factory farmed, it would be very traumatic to live through. In fact Disney made an animated one about deer.

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buddascrayon 2 points a year ago

Factory farming is indeed very bad. But the way to fix it isn't to go vegan. The way to fix it is to campaign legislators to change the laws to stop factory farming. And being vegan, you've basically deleted yourself from that particular equation. Because now no one has any reason to listen to you on the subject.

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itslilith 1 point a year ago

Your point makes no sense.

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kapulsa 3 points a year ago

I thought I provided that connection by mentioning the harm we're doing to almost all animals.

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buddascrayon 1 point a year ago
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MeThisGuy -4 points a year ago path: 0 17533848 17541222, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 0
Atomic 21 points a year ago

Crazy that some seem to suggest you can't care about whales heading towards extinction without being a level 6 Vegan.

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FinishingDutch 6 points a year ago

Yup. I’m very opposed to whaling - they’re magnificent creatures - but I’m not giving up my hamburger any time soon.

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itslilith -2 points a year ago

I mean you can, you're just somewhat of a hypocrite

How much experience does it take to level up, btw?

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Atomic 2 points a year ago

Please explain how someone is being a hypocrite for caring about species that are heading towards extinction

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itslilith -1 points a year ago

By only caring about some species, while partaking in one of the most destructive habits a person (*that is not filthy rich) can do, thus driving up biodiversity loss and species extinction

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Atomic 3 points a year ago

You're making a lot assumptions here.

For one. You don't have to be a vegan to care about biodiversity. It is as simple as choosing to care and being selective in sourcing your groceries. That goes for produce as well. Since many farmers use pesticides that kill bees, or fertilizers that damages ground water.

I know you have different morals when it comes to choice of protein. But that does in no way prohibit one from caring about species as a whole.

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neons 2 points a year ago

you're right, I should actually support whaling.

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Phen 18 points a year ago

Tried making a joke here before reading more about it and now I regret the joke so I edited this out.

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the_q 13 points a year ago
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arsCynic 1 point a year ago

The human experience is built on cruelty.

Well, almost. The human experience of the imperial core is built on cruelty. I'm pretty sure the Native Americans weren't slaughtering animals on an industrial scale.

- -
✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.

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stray 3 points a year ago

Depending on which Native Americans we're taking about, some of them drove entire herds of bison over cliffs. Our European ancestors hunted the mastodon to extinction, I think? In Australia and New Zealand a bunch of reptiles and the moa birds were wiped out by humans.

I don't think most humans are ever thinking about genocide exactly (probably some are/were), but that they're focused on feeding and defending their communities and not considering the balance of the ecosystem.

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phdepressed 11 points a year ago

Well usually it's more injure the child so mom stays close then murder both.

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RuBisCO 4 points a year ago path: 0 17530687, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
BestBouclettes 4 points a year ago

It's okay, it's for scientific research !

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sturlabragason 18 points a year ago path: 0 17520603 17520820, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 3
BestBouclettes 27 points a year ago

I know it's not, it's just the garbage excuse they've been using for decades

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sturlabragason 6 points a year ago

Used to be there, now I just keep sharing the above link 🤷‍♂️

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refurbishedrefurbisher 6 points a year ago

This is why "/s" exists

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AnUnusualRelic 0 points a year ago

It's for scientific research though.

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andybytes -1 points a year ago

Those Japanese bruh they savage.

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smee -1 points a year ago

Poor whales. It's better to eat the children, that's why civilized people eat lamb and chicken.

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andybytes -7 points a year ago

Hahahahahhahah look bruh we are all gonna die in a nuclear war so justice will be served....omgawd this is hilarious

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Scott_of_the_Arctic -8 points a year ago

I don't mean to be that guy but, whales are delicious. And you get approx 3500kg of meat (low estimate) from a minke whale, whereas you'll get about 75kg from a commercially farmed pig. Meaning you have to kill 46 pigs to get the same amount of meat as 1 whale.

Both pigs and whales are intelligent and emotionally developed animals. Whales live free and normal lives up until the point of their harpooning, whereas pigs are kept in filthy overcrowded conditions and kept alive with antibiotics because they wouldn't last long without them. They are of course eventually killed, but unlike cattle they don't get a quick death from a bolt gun to the head. No pigs are asphyxiated with carbon dioxide. They spend the last moments of their tortured existence choking to death.

That doesn't take into account the massive environmental impact of large pig farms. Because pigs eat more nitrogen rich food than other farm animals, their feces leads to over nitrification of anything downstream and eutrophication of waterways.

So if you are sitting there chomping a bacon sandwich and bitching and moaning about whaling, take a long hard look in the mirror, because the pig farming you support is immeasurably worse both ethically and environmentally.

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AnarchoDakosaurus 35 points a year ago

I get the point you're trying to make but if people ate whale the same way we ate pig the entire ocean ecosystem would have collapsed by now.

Not to mention almost all whale species are on their way to being endangered right now, while factory farmed pigs aren't.

Maybe just go with the line all meat is murder rather bacon is worse then whale flesh lmao.

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WolfLink 6 points a year ago

We did almost hunt whales to extinction, but it wasn’t meat we were hunting for, it was their oily fat.

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 5 points a year ago

Exactly, most people don't actually like it that much.

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 1 point a year ago

I don't have a problem with people eating meat. I eat meat. I just don't like the way it's farmed what I'd propose is a largely vegetarian diet punctuated by fish or wild meat every so often. Like fish twice a week and venison on Sunday or something. As for whale, it's not really commonly eaten in many places and as long as people don't take too many, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

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LemmyIsReddit2Point0 -4 points a year ago
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Hawk 6 points a year ago

I don't think harm free cultured meat exists yet.

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LemmyIsReddit2Point0 1 point a year ago
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LemmyIsReddit2Point0 1 point a year ago
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Atomic 6 points a year ago

It's amazing that you can type out that novel and not once realize that whales are going towards extinction.

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 1 point a year ago

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Atomic 0 points a year ago

Probably because they were busy hunting the other ones...

Mink whales are not the only whales. But good on you for finding one that isn't yet critically endangered

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Scott_of_the_Arctic 2 points a year ago

Where I am it's the only whale species that's legal to hunt and there are strict quotas.

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Korhaka 3 points a year ago

I don't have a problem with fishing, but shouldn't catches be monitored and tracked to ensure we don't catch things that are endangered? This can mean switching the things we catch from time to time as fishing stocks change.

Also regulations being more harsh on recreational fishers than commercial ones is kinda bullshit. Why are massive trawlers held to a lower standard than a guy with a rod in his hand trying to catch his own dinner? That one varies heavily by location though. Where I live is generally pretty good, if I go 50 miles east its extremely restrictive.

Quick edit: Saw your other post that minke whale isn't endangered. Good to know. Yeah as long as they are following that I don't really care.

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Dasus 0 points a year ago

I don't eat pork, really.

But it's not because I considered pigs that smart, it's just a cruel practice, industrial farming. I'm fine with them being farmed if there's proper regulation.

I do eat deer, horse and reindeer among other things as well. Less so beef, or try to at least.

So I guess if you're talking about the whaling of the common minke whale which isn't a threatened species at the moment, and I'd look into the regulation and practices, I guess I'd be fine with eating some.

Although I would still attribute vastly higher intelligence to whales than deer and pigs. I mean, it's hard to measure, but pigs eat their own babies which they kill by accident. That's why they have like a dozen. And prey animals like deer are usually kinda frantic and not seemingly that smart.

Whereas whales, we don't even know how intelligent they are, but some species are definitely super intelligent and the communication they use is complex af.

Still, can't say you're wrong in your points, as I often make the same points for deer, but they breed kinda lot and they honestly have to be kept in check so they don't ruin environments whereas I'm pretty sure whales aren't considered pests anywhere? I mean, I'm not at all sure, but I am guessing. There's those ship destroying ones, but that seems targeted against humans and not them generally destroying their environment.

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TheObviousSolution -11 points a year ago

If there were fish artists, do you think they would draw depressing pictures of whales obliterating entire colonies just to feed themselves, or humans doing the same for entire ecosystems?

I'm all for taking better care of our ecosystems, but let's face it, a lot of animals are assholes whose lives literally depends on preying on other animals. I also don't like to hear plants scream: https://www.sciencetimes.com/...

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NikkiDimes 15 points a year ago

Here's the difference: humans are unique in our understanding of these systems and have the empathy and ability to make better choices.

I wouldn't expect a whale to track the ethical and environmental impacts of its pod's consumption, not because it shouldn't, but because it literally does not have the intellectual capacity to do so.

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theolodis 4 points a year ago

To be fair, a lot of humans also seem to lack the intellectual capacity to consider the ethical implications of their consumption, specially when confronted with the unimaginable cruelty and suffering we cause to animals just to eat something tasty with low individual effort.

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MeThisGuy -2 points a year ago

truth

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TheObviousSolution 2 points a year ago

The environment has been shaped by countless extinctions over millennia. The environment does not need white knights, it simply is. Another entirely is what we would like it to be. A whale "tracking the ethical and environmental impacts of its pod’s consumption" would be at a competitive disadvantage to those who don't. specially given that they are carnivores who don't have the privilege of omnivore white knighting. Not eating meat is them dying en masse unless one of them is able to survive off of plants somehow, if at all. Bulls will skewer anyone who go near their territory, and they are herbivores, nature does not share your concerns not because of intellectual capacity but because they don't need to.

We can track the ethical and environmental impacts, but we only do so within our own perspective. It is a trait of any animal to show empathy for that which they do care about, and ignorance and even disdain for that which they do not. People who care about the feelings of animals, feelings they do have, do so because they have the luxury of not becoming fodder. Not only people, but animals in captivity who are fed and need not worry about where their food or if they are food have been shown to express this notion as well.

Life exists to survive. Don't think your ethical and environmental concerns will afford you likewise considerations from other animals, from humans to whales alike. Just because you feel and because they feel does not mean they will care. You pick your fights, you want to care about whales, you might end up caring too much about everything before ever finding yourself getting kicked to the ground because of a dystopian hellscape that was too out of focus for you coming from your own species. Will you ask if the concerns you chose to erect walls around helped you out then?

Our ecosystems are doomed to change just as we are, but we should not accelerate their change unless we are ready to change ourselves. Unfortunately, the entire ocean is changing now, and if anything major governments driven by profits have made sure we are not ready to change. F-ing whaling is the least of my worries nowadays because so much more has become concerning.

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ininewcrow -13 points a year ago

Don't feel so bad for the whales ..... we do the same to human beings too

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hakunawazo 13 points a year ago

Somewhere deeply submerged inside your comment swims a yo momma joke.

path: 0 17520886 17521855, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 4
Texas_Hangover 9 points a year ago

I harpooned his mama 3 times just last week.

path: 0 17520886 17521855 17523692, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
WhyIAughta 4 points a year ago
path: 0 17520886 17521855 17523157, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2
hakunawazo 4 points a year ago

*seamen

path: 0 17520886 17521855 17523157 17523670, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
Scott_of_the_Arctic 3 points a year ago

Sea-ciety

path: 0 17520886 17521855 17523157 17523670 17525052, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
cyanideandhappiness
cyanideandhappiness

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About

Hello fellow Cyanide and Happiness fans!

Cyanide & Happiness (C&H) is a webcomic created by Rob DenBleyker, Kris Wilson, Dave McElfatrick and Matt Melvin. The comic has been running since 2005 and is published on the website explosm.net along with animated shorts in the same style. Matt Melvin left C&H in 2014, and several other people have contributed to the comic and to the animated shorts.

It's sometimes NSFW, so consider that when browsing!

Read more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...

Support them on Patreon!

https://www.patreon.com/cyanide_and_happiness

Hope you enjoy and feel free to contribute to the community with art, media, cool stuff about the authors, tattoos, toys and anything else, as long it’s Cyanide & Happiness related!

History

@MrSebSin@sh.itjust.works started this community and wrote:

About this community and how I post the comics… Many moons ago, I would ask my Dad to save the newspaper for me everyday so I could read my favorite comic strips. Of course these days you can read your favorite comics online instead of a newspaper, but I love the nostalgia of reading the daily comics. Anyway, one of my favorite current comics is Cyanide and Happiness and I will be posting the daily release from their website (https://explosm.net/) and a an extra or two randoms.

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Fine Print

All comics posted are freely available online. In no way is the poster claiming ownership, copyright or anything else. This is a not for profit community, we just want to enjoy our comics, thank you.

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