But let's not forget that the WordPress codebase is absolute dogshit.
And not an example of how to write proper modern PHP.
That post seems to be missing.
Decq 101 points a year ago
Let's be honest though. The early PHP versions were absolute dog shit. And the definition of how not to design a programming language. That said, that never stopped anyone in web development from using it apparently. No clue what modern PHP looks like, apparently it's better now.
kingofras 60 points a year ago
Was not intended as programming language. The name literally stands for Hypertext PreProcessor. It was meant to be a script injector for HTML back when the internet was still fun.
Then it got out of hand and PHP didn’t evolve fast enough to be a web technology leader, but never ceded the position of old trusty workhorse, and still powers a significant part of websites.
Decq 23 points a year ago
I somewhat know the history of PHP and how it came to be. And that it was just a personal project that suddenly got big. So I don't blame the creator. But that still doesn't make it a good language.
thesystemisdown 20 points a year ago
Modern PHP is better because it's modern. Which early version of a programming language was good? I've used a lot of them, and by modern standards, I think dog shit is a somewhat appropriate description for most of them.
azertyfun 14 points a year ago
It's one of a plethora of scripting languages from the '90s which were designed to be the antithesis of "fail fast" and kept going no matter what.
I guess what with C/C++ being the Mainstream Option at the time, not having to deal with a strict compiler must have felt like freedom. As someone who has had to maintain, cleanup and migrate ancient PHP code, I call it folly. That mindset of "let the programmer just do whatever and keep trucking" breeds awful programming practices and renders static analysis varying degrees of useless, which makes large-scale refactoring hard to automate which is just amazing when your major versions aren't even remotely FUCKING BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE.
PHP's original design is just fundamentally atrocious. It became popular in large part because unmaintainable code is usually someone else's problem.
A language that I would definitely use for server-side rendering and that was already good from its first stable release is Go. It was thoughtfully designed and lends itself really well to static analysis, while still being easy to write and decently performant.
Decq 7 points a year ago
It's been about 20 years since I've touched PHP. So i don't remember all the problems i had with it.
But some language from those times were at least consistent with itself and clearly more thought-out. Even though they might miss some of the nicety we've come to like nowadays. Of course for web development there weren't many better choices back then.
But I'm heavily skewed towards non-oo, static typed, explicit languages so PHP was probably never for me.
ByteWelder 4 points a year ago path: 0 18319508 18321207 18334771, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
bestboyfriendintheworld 1 point a year ago
Early Swift was very slow to compile and start. The debugger was nonfunctional.
Otherwise it was pretty usable. Especially since it got to leverage the huge libraries written for Objective-C.
Which meant it lacked some basic collection types. A Swift native Set was introduced with Swift 3 IIRC. Before that you had to bridge back and forth between Swift and Objective-C. Sometimes leading to unexpected behavior at runtime.
In Objective-C if an object reference was nil, you could send it messages (call methods) without a problem. Swift however did away with this. Optionals had to be explicitly unwrapped. So if the annotations weren’t correct, Swift code would crash at runtime where Objective-C would have been fine. Lots of bugs related to that existed.
Swift peaked around version 4. Since then, they have been adding kitchen sink features and lots of complexity to feel smart.
I still would have preferred an Objective-C 3.0. Chris Lattner was a C++ guy and never really understood Objective-C culture and strengths.
Rozauhtuno 5 points a year ago
Holy C.
friend_of_satan 10 points a year ago
IMHO the killer feature was mod_php. Writing server-side website logic was stupid easy with that. I think if it weren't for that, php wouldn't have been nearly as popular.
I quit using it like 10 years ago, but I'm happy with what I did with it and got from it.
nilloc 6 points a year ago
When I was using Ruby (some Rails, but mostly Sinatra, for little web apps and api serving) Laravel was coming up in PHP shops. Which was just trying to be Rails running on PHP from what I could tell.
There were others before that, like CakePHP, but all I remember about that of all the bugs my coworkers dealt with. I was strictly a front end dev back then.
ThirdConsul 3 points a year ago
No clue what modern PHP looks like
Like worse C#.
BlameTheAntifa 82 points a year ago
In PHPs defense, it keeps evolving in positive, meaningful ways. If you are up to date with it, it’s quite sophisticated and enjoyable. Doubly so if you use a framework like Laravel.
mriswith 21 points a year ago
Most memes or jokes referencing a direct problem in PHP, are old or made by people who haven't touched the language in a decade(version 7 was in 2015, and it removed/fixed a lot of issues and added needed features).
There's also the huge looming thing that a lot of programmers forget: Websites like Wikipedia run on PHP, not to mention the amount of WordPress and similar websites are out there. Which means it will keep going strong. And for a while Facebook also used quite a lot of it, to the point where they made a rudimentary compiler instead of rewriting parts in more efficient languanges.
Scrollone 5 points a year ago
Also, most of the websites are made with WordPress, which... take a guess, yes, it runs on PHP!
(even though WordPress is a bad example because it's written in a horrible and ancient way)
LovableSidekick 10 points a year ago
I agree. A lot of people who mock PHP know almost nothing about it but they know they're supposed to hate it because all the cool kids do.
LovableSidekick 2 points a year ago
I would have gone with hammer.
SavinDWhales 5 points a year ago
PHP 8.4 is pretty good, TBH. You absolutely CAN write great code with modern PHP. ... Shame that most PHP I touch is legacy code that's at MOST PHP 7.4 - which is EOL since November '22 and has to be upgraded or replaced. 😬
mad_lentil 3 points a year ago
Yeah last time I used it was with a laravel monolith and actually it wasn't that bad.
merc 46 points a year ago
Where I live, I still see people in a horse-drawn wagon. So, I guess horse-drawn wagons never died? It's only used for tourists and weddings, but that counts, right?
According to Tiobe, PHP was the programming language of the year in 2004. In 2010 it was number 3 in the top 10 programming languages. It's now out of the top 10 entirely. There really isn't a language that has completely disappeared. Mainframes are still programmed using COBOL, Scientists are still using FORTRAN, even Lisp, which has been around since the 1950s, is still going strong.
Maybe Actionscript counts as truly dead, since it was tied to Adobe Flash, and Flash is truly dead?
I have a lot of bad memories of PHP. It was, for a brief time, the main language I used, but it was so ugly and inconsistent. The only thing I loved about it, at the time, was that it wasn't Visual Basic. As bad as PHP was, at least I wasn't making web pages in that pile of hot garbage. But, I never felt joy writing something in PHP. At best it was a slog. At worst it was like pulling teeth.
Just about every other language has given me moments of fun. Original Javascript was a mess, but it already contained scheme-like features. It was sold as being an interpreted version of Java, but it had features that Java wouldn't have for at least a decade. C is a brutal and unforgiving language, but as long as you're not working with strings, it's great to have such low-level control over everything.
Maybe PHP has evolved like other languages, but I still am not interested in trying it out. Everything it was good at can be done better by other languages, and those are languages that give me joy, not pain. I hope it keeps dropping in the rankings so that people aren't exposed to it as one of their first languages.
kameecoding 15 points a year ago
Yeah, I think this is a more fitting meme to be about Java, because despite all the java is dead articles it's still like one of the top most used language, if anything is a serious backend service it likely runs on Java.
merc 8 points a year ago
Java is a better fit. It hasn't fallen in popularity the way PHP has. But, I'm not convinced that serious backend services mostly use Java. It's one of the languages used, sure. But, I don't know if it beats C/C++ or Go. Apache's C. Nginx is C. Kubernetes is Go. Docker is Go.
I think Java has a niche with certain kinds of business logic applications, and those are pretty common. I would guess that in a typical set of interactions with a Google product, or a Meta product, or an AWS product, some parts of the traffic will be handled by services written in Java. But, others will be C/C++ or Go. There will probably also be some parts of the process that are PHP or Ruby or Python, and a lot of Javascript.
kameecoding 9 points a year ago
I can only speak for what I see in the central European market, big banks like Unicredit (literally primefaces frontend), Erste group is running Java, basically all government services are Java.
Java is by far the dominant language on the job market in terms of number of open positions and salary.
cute_noker 8 points a year ago
Most developers are not going to create the next kubernetes. For me it is usually down to earth integrations. Take this file from s3, send as email and sftp here. Create API to proxy another API. Take messages from Kafka, put on rabbitMQ. Save messages from rabbitMQ to database.
I think Java is very strong with libraries. Especially with Spring Boot and camel. I don't really see it as niche but more of a plain boring peanut butter sandwich. Boring. Unexciting. But works.
I am however trying to convince my boss to allow kotlin. Which has access to all the java libraries
merc 3 points a year ago
Most developers are also not going to create a "serious backend service". Most are making a random website, or chaining together a few "business logic" items. I think we're just talking about different levels of "serious backend service". Like, if you mean someone making a website for the biggest industrial machinery company in the fortune 500, but it's all B2B stuff and so it handles at most hundreds of QPS, then I think you'll find a lot of Java there. I just think that for the biggest B2C companies in the world that handle hundreds of thousands of QPS, it's not exclusively Java.
I'm not trying to say Java is bad or anything. It's just that it has a few quirks (like garbage collection) that start to matter when you're getting eye-watering levels of traffic. So, for the most serious of the "serious backend services" I think you see Java, but you also sometimes see C/C++ and Go.
bestboyfriendintheworld 1 point a year ago
Java has been running serious server software since the mid 1990s. Think WebObjects running on Solaris. Lots of business stuff with big databases still run infrastructure like that.
Java still has the big advantage of being machine agnostic. No need to recompile for ARM or Intel.
PumaStoleMyBluff 10 points a year ago
There are still Amish and Mennonite communities who use horse-drawn wagons and farm implements their whole lives.
Not really meant to be an argument to your point, just interesting to know.
bytesonbike 8 points a year ago
Laravel brought life back to PHP for me. It's elegant. I feels like speaking.
And PHP 8 is light-years away from the garbage I grew up on.
merc 2 points a year ago
I took a look and threw up in my mouth a little. That's not how backslashes should be used.
Instead of writing their frontend templates in PHP via Blade, many developers have begun to prefer to write their templates using React or Vue.
So... the only thing that PHP is really good for should be replaced by React or Vue Javascript / Typescript?
To each their own, but for me that's a no.
dlb 4 points a year ago
I wouldn’t even say that Flash is truly dead, thanks to emulators like Ruffle. You can still make a movie or game in Flash MX 2004, which is freely available now, and have it run in the browser. That said, last I looked (years ago) only AS2 was supported, so AS3 might be well and truly dead (rip my first language).
ChickenLadyLovesLife 4 points a year ago
There really isn’t a language that has completely disappeared.
How about that shit where a "program" was a bunch of patch cables plugged into various sockets? That shit is gone, man.
sukhmel 2 points a year ago
Just for the sake of being contrary, I know that there are still machines running on punch cards in some army-related places, where not changing anything is mandatory. I wouldn't be surprised if hot-wiring is also still there somewhere, it's just mostly running without changes.
ChickenLadyLovesLife 3 points a year ago
The original Moog synthesizers used patch cords (in fact that's why a synthesizer instrument sound is still called a "patch") and I'm sure somebody somewhere is still fucking around with one of those.
ICastFist 17 points a year ago
It's still bad nowadays, and it's the main language used on pretty much every system of several state level secretaries in Brazil. My colleagues work with it daily (I don't program, thankfully) and they're not exactly fond of it. Legacy systems, man
TheKingBee 7 points a year ago
I mean it does suck, but it sucks less than anything else we have.
balsoft 13 points a year ago
PHP is far from "least bad language". Nowadays it is an ok language, one of many. You can also write ok code in it. The main issue is that it's really easy to write horrible shit that just barely works and will break when you look at it wrong. In fact without a lot of knowledge and experience that is the code you will probably write.
There are much better languages for any webdev niche you can think of, and some that are just better for webdev overall (e.g. Elixir). The reason PHP is still relevant is mostly huge legacy codebases that require a lot of engineering power to maintain (because PHP is not a good language for maintenance).
The way I look at it is that PHP is the C++ of webdev (but slightly worse).
InternetCitizen2 4 points a year ago
That's also 30 years old, old man!
sukhmel 6 points a year ago
A language usually doesn't become worse with time, at least if the devs do a good job at improving it.
There are cases of new languages that looked better but didn't become mainstream because the ecosystem requires time to grow (and adoption, which creates a vicious cycle because adoption requires ecosystem to already be there)
PolarKraken 6 points a year ago
FastAPI ftw, fight me! Lol jk Django is cool and useful and serves a different need, quite well from what I understand.
zalgotext 3 points a year ago
Lol I've used both, FastAPI is nice too! I think my ideal situation would be FastAPI's endpoints/routing, combined with Django's ORM and DRF's automagic serializers/viewsets.
PolarKraken 1 point a year ago
Dangit. That's me too, I just saw your comment before posting one myself 😅
lime 40 points a year ago
my entire way of reasoning about programming languages changed when i read on article about how hating on php was misogynistic. i clicked on it because it just sounded like yet another ragebait, but it made sense.
basically, since php is simple, and integrated with html, the vast majority of php devs started out as designers who later got into code. since php has always been a mess, nobody wanted to build mainstream tooling for it except the people actively working with the language. this means that mainstream ideas about language and tooling design didn't percolate down to php like it has done to most languages. so php devs, when exposed to tooling the rest of the world takes for granted, are usually overwhelmed because not only is there a lot of it, nobody in php-land uses tools like that. so they get called bad devs of a bad language. some of them, who really like to code, push through this massive difficulty spike, while others just assume that "actual programming" is too hard and go back to design, even though tooling usage has little to do with your skill as a programmer.
the kicker, of course, being that web design has more women than most other dev specialisations.
kshade 26 points a year ago
Is disliking something that (allegedly) is more popular with women than the average thing of its category anti-woman, even if no part of the complaint involves the user or their gender? The majority of users is likely still male anyway.
lime 17 points a year ago
not directly, but trash-talking it and gatekeeping "real programming" from the language most likely to be used by women is not exactly conducive to improved equality in the profession.
i realise now that i didn't explicitly mention my point in the first post, so:
- shitting on other people's jobs is bad.
ChickenLadyLovesLife 4 points a year ago
Is disliking something that (allegedly) is more popular with women than the average thing of its category anti-woman, even if no part of the complaint involves the user or their gender?
According to my sister-in-law, yes. I don't like Taylor Swift's music and apparently that makes me a misogynist.
lilja 17 points a year ago
In the start of my career I felt that there was a sentiment around web dev that it's not "real" programming in a way. Not sure if that's the case any more seeing as the majority of modern develoment is for web platforms.
I've never heard the idea that PHP is a language used by web designers who migrated to coding, but it kind of makes sense. How PHP works, where everything is just HTML until the <?php tag comes in, made it so attractive as a way to add some spice to static pages. I cut my teeth on PHP and moved on to other languages later, so it makes sense that it would function as a gateway drug of sorts, also resulting in it not getting the attention from seasoned experts that other languages benefit from.
Calling dislike of PHP misogynistic feels like a massive stretch.. but maybe it's not considering how the designer/programmer divide also has a massive gender disparity. PHP has its problems, tooling being just one side of it, and its nature as a designer-friendly language makes it easy for elitists to mask their bigotry behind "objective" arguments that PHP is bad.
lime 7 points a year ago
i think the wording of the original article was intentionally inflammatory, but "the purpose of a system is what it does". if shit-talking php causes women to leave the profession, it doesn't really matter what the intent was.
magic_lobster_party 8 points a year ago
The main issue with PHP is that it’s designed for a pre AJAX web. Before when there was a real distinction between backend and frontend. The idea with PHP is that the server code is responsible of generating HTML on the fly.
Server code generating HTML is icky in modern web development.
magic_lobster_party 1 point a year ago
Now it was a great while ago I wrote anything in PHP. What icks me is the separation of concern. It has a tendency to cause code that’s concerned with logic and rendering at the same time. The act of moving a button can interfere with the logic, and it obfuscates how the entire website looks like.
Maybe there’s better coding practices to ensure better separation of concern in PHP.
shnizmuffin 17 points a year ago
Server code generating HTML is icky in modern web development.
There's been a big uptick in interest around SSR lately, so maybe not.
eager_eagle 16 points a year ago
What's actually icky is making a website an SPA, duplicating business logic in the back and front, when it could perfectly be served as a server side rendered HTML.
drmoose 9 points a year ago
What absolutely no. Server side generated code is still king in the right hands. Why have client lift all of thay when server side html rendering basically costs nothing. Even strong js driven front end you can still add much through server side by providing proper hydration paths. Good devs take advantage of both worlds but server side is incredibly powerful today.
frezik 6 points a year ago
AJAX everything is icky. It's part of what's made browser tabs take more RAM than a typical desktop had in 1998.
I exercised all client side JavaScript from an app I maintain. It's fast, clean, and the back button always works. I just checked on one of the more complicated pages, and according to Firefox's memory profile, it takes about 2.6MB of RAM.
Where PHP really goes wrong is mixing HTML and code by default.
bitcrafter 5 points a year ago
I exercised all client side JavaScript from an app I maintain. It’s fast, clean, and the back button always works. I just checked on one of the more complicated pages, and according to Firefox’s memory profile, it takes about 2.6MB of RAM.
Wow, that really is a light weight! What exercise do you have your code perform to get such impressive results?
frezik 3 points a year ago
No JavaScript, just HTML and CSS. Basically no images. The heaviest page dumps 50 rows of logs in a table.
It's admittedly a fundamentally simple frontend, but we all know of frontends with a simple job and a not so simple frontend.
HakFoo 6 points a year ago
I believe the huge mistake in HTML wasn't having some sort of element-level addressability.
People went insane over "the page flashes for 15ms because we have to reload the header and footer and it doesn't look NAAATIVE!" and the response was to SPA/AJAX everything, inviting a huge Turing-complete nightmare of possibilities when 95% of what peopleneed would be delivered with < form action="blah" replace_with_response="#foo" >
That and a dearth of native widgets-- a < combobox > and a < menu > that worked like the system menus might have kept JavaScript as the sick oddity it should be.
irelephant 3 points a year ago path: 0 18320566 18320893 18322302, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
jenesaisquoi 27 points a year ago
Ah yes, the language that picked strlen as the hash function for its hashtables.
Blackmist 15 points a year ago
Javascript is living proof that your language doesn't need to be good to be used.
I tripped over this one in Delphi the other day.
function AnsiStartsText(const ASubText, AText: string): Boolean;
function AnsiEndsText(const ASubText, AText: string): Boolean;
function AnsiContainsText(const AText, ASubText: string): Boolean;
mad_lentil 4 points a year ago
Too late to change it now
jenesaisquoi 6 points a year ago
path: 0 18331840 18332261 18333014, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
vivalapivo 5 points a year ago
Waaaaaaat
jenesaisquoi 7 points a year ago
I also like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
JimVanDeventer 25 points a year ago
Happy 44th birthday IPv4! 🥳
cupcakezealot 24 points a year ago
this is perl erasure
also php didn't cause the internet to suck; overreliance on javascript (and js based frameworks) did. there's a reason that modern internet is so slow and clunky and it's not php. at least php has the capabibility to improve over time not degrade.
bufalo1973 1 point a year ago
Just like COBOL
Simulation6 21 points a year ago
Well, at least PHP isn’t as bad as JSP.
LovableSidekick 16 points a year ago
Or TSP (trisodium phosphate) - which you can't even make websites with, but it's great for cleaning oil spots off the driveway.
PolarKraken 4 points a year ago
Well, now, that's useful, but we shouldn't fail to mention good ol HCl, muriatic acid colloquially for this purpose, also great for cleaning oil stains from a driveway!
GreenKnight23 15 points a year ago
jsp answered the question, "What if Java was like PHP but with more Java?"
jsp deserved to die.
SpaceNoodle 21 points a year ago
Replaced the P in LAMP with Python when I started building webpages again a few years ago, and never looked back. Such a vastly more pleasant experience.
SpaceNoodle 7 points a year ago
Get that fucking JavaScript out of here
SpaceNoodle 2 points a year ago
When I ask a server for something, its response shouldn't be "here, you do it."
rumba 4 points a year ago
Python is a natural evolution for web development, especially once you're past the fundamentals. For someone with no scripting background, PHP is easier to approach. The syntax is more direct, and basic debugging doesn't require any setup. An error happened on x line is the default behavior.
Python's logging system can be tricky to configure properly if you're unfamiliar with the factory and error level handling. Those green people don't have any idea where to put the log or how to let the web server talk to it safely.
It's the little bs like refusing for years to include switch, then when they finally give, they just refuse to allow fallthrough. It's like they said, fine, but it's got to work slightly differently and we don't like the name... it feels childish.
All things considered, Python has a richer ecosystem and deeper long-term potential. But there's something to be said for how quickly a basic PHP site can be spun up and debugged with minimal knowledge with minimal friction. And that's why it's still around so much today.
SpaceNoodle 3 points a year ago
I agree that PHP was easy to pick up, but I already knew several programming languages and was quickly shooting myself in the foot with the extremely overbuilt, redundant, and buggy builtin functions. At the time, though, it was either that or ASP, so I chose the lesser of two evils.
To segue, switch statements aren't inherently necessary for a mature programming language; I think that addition was partially to mollify the growing userbase (not a good reason), but on the other hand it's really just structured pattern matching wearing a hat that says "switch" on it ... though again, that's something which could fairly trivially be achieved with a list comprehension. It's not like you're getting the machine-code-level optimizations that a C compiler could churn out for a proper switch statement.
rumba 3 points a year ago
I personally feel that giving the growing user base things they want is probably the most prudent reason. Constantly refusing to provide simple constructs that are available everywhere else It's not a good look. In the open source world if you do that shit enough you end up getting forked.
The context and ease of switch in a functional programming layout is a rather clean implementation.
Otherwise you end up with the crap like they're pulling with flask were you just make an unnamed, unindexed number of functions. Can you sort and organize your functions and make everything clean? Sure you can. Does it happen by default? Almost never.
You can walk up to someone else's switch and see what the options are. The code flows through that simple construct and it's very easy to understand someone else's work.
I load up someone else's flask endpoint, It's just this multi-page stream of consciousness.
You don't need switch, But there's a reason why so damn many people ask for it. Before they agreed to include "match", They said just to use getattr and write your own switch.
PolarKraken 3 points a year ago
I think I agree with you, and I also think you probably know better than me, but - Python couldn't become what Python became without doing this exact thing very deliberately, bordering on obnoxious at times. Fundamentals or "initial state" define the characteristic strengths and weaknesses for a language, but what to add and what not to, as well as "why" and "how", over time determine the true shape and user experience (lacking a better word there) of a language.
Despite its reputation, in my view Python has always been far more opinionated about how to do things than most give it credit for.
SpaceNoodle 2 points a year ago
I guess I should be thankful that they were no longer demanding GOTOs.
LovableSidekick 6 points a year ago
I doubt that the pay is insane yet. There are a lot more PHP devs than COBOL devs. About half of the web still runs on PHP. It's true that COBOL runs about half of the financial world, but PHP is less than 30 years old whereas COBOL programs are relics from decades earlier, and generally only get updated minimally if the systems around them change.
Zos_Kia 7 points a year ago
It's very rare that the backend language significantly affects performance. In 99% of apps you could have the most optimized backend written directly in machine language, and you'd just shave off milliseconds.
That's because in web development most of the latency comes from i/o (network requests, database access, file access), not from computation being slow.
buttnugget 2 points a year ago
So why did Facebook build that whole system of converting C++ to PHP or whatever they did? Was it because they didn’t understand the savings? Or when you scale that high, the savings really are significant? Were there savings?
Edit to subtract: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHVM is what it eventually turned into, and apparently it showed significant improvements even above the previous system.
PolarKraken 6 points a year ago
Happens a lot - my (quite small) shop was using NestJS for backends and my boss is way more experienced and wise than me. I unintentionally caused us to switch over to Python, which probably sounds as silly as JS to many, but - we deliver dope shit, on time and on budget 🤷♂️
percent 6 points a year ago
Thanks to web browser development, there has been quite a lot of focus/investment into JS runtime optimizations. Since the server-side runtime environments use those same JS engines, performance tends to be quite good.
mad_lentil 4 points a year ago
This person phps
leds 15 points a year ago
Maybe 25 years ago i build my first website for a paying customer ( my dad). I decided to go for php which was new to me at the time.
I figured it would be too risky ( even back then) to have PHP generate dynamic pages so instead I had php generate static html.
So whenever website needed updating , for example a new folder with images was added, you could just load the admin.php and it would generate gallery pages for you.
Would probably still work 25 year later if wasn't eventually replaced with some WordPress or something
MonkderVierte 10 points a year ago
And performant. And accessible. And compatible.
nicgentile 14 points a year ago
PHP forever.
MNByChoice 10 points a year ago
Yup! Every time we add a new technology, the old does not go away. We just have more (gestures wildly) everything.
When picking a career specialization, don't abandon all the old stuff. Some of it makes a lucrative career after others have moved on (HPC, COBOL, on-site servers).
bleistift2 3 points a year ago
The page scrolls normally for me.
LovableSidekick 2 points a year ago
Last week I found the code for the first website I created, way back in the mid 90s. The server-side part was written in Perl.
pewgar_seemsimandroid 2 points a year ago
php is too mainstream, give ruby a reason to exist.
GreenKnight23 5 points a year ago
ruby has so many better reasons to exist beyond that.
since v3 it performs just as well if not better than Python.
it has a well documented and lush library of gems that still work even if they are 15 years old.
ruby gets a lot of shit because everyone ties rails in, which has improved, but is still slow as shit compared to other orms.
tyler 3 points a year ago
yeah rails is literally the only thing giving ruby a bad name, it's terrible. Ruby is a beautiful, amazing language, and then people shit all over it because of Rails. I literally had someone complain that ruby is a horrible language, I asked them what they meant, they listed off all rails things, then I showed them the language and they were like "this isn't what I was using...".
in any case I think you really should only use ruby for very small scripts or programs. Nothing enterprisey at all.
GreenKnight23 1 point a year ago
I'm complete opposite. I feel ruby is a far more mature solution compared to what enterprises are using; node, python, (new hot language here).
tyler 4 points a year ago
Most enterprises use Java. Having built many large apps with Ruby and the JVM ecosystem, there’s a reason the JVM is chosen. Same for C#.
Yes, Ruby is way way more mature than node and Python, but most orgs aren’t building backends with those, or if they do they pretty quickly learn why they shouldn’t (been at two orgs that were moving off of node and python).
MonkderVierte 1 point a year ago
Ruby is as dead as PHP.
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
PHP will remain alive as long Wordpress is still being used.
save