Slavery never left it just got rebranded.
The Thirteenth Amendment needs to be amended.
Per Wikipedia: The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. The amendment was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House of Representatives on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the required 27 of the then 36 states on December 6, 1865, and proclaimed on December 18, 1865. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted following the American Civil War.
Guess I won't be eating food any more
I'm gonna need something a bit more specific than Costco, Sam's Club, Kroger, Walmart, and Target. Are you saying ALL products in those stores are from slave labor? Most? Some? A few obscure items?
I don't really have any other options for groceries where I live.
That's a good question for OP
Now is a very good time to become a subsistence farmer.
Because that's totally something most people have access to and can do.
Gonna start substinence farming inside my apartment deep in the concrete jungle of the inner city, yup.
The world has changed deeply since the era where that was a way out of this. The majority of US citizens literally do not have access to arable land.
Should have added /s.
Honestly, as an old tyme closet grower, with about $300-400 in led lighting and a closet or small area that you could put a blackout grow enclosure, you could work 2-4 hydroponic buckets and get a shit load of tomatoes, and probably a few other fruit/vegetable strains.
Indoor vertical farming is quite efficient.
Get a tent and a light, there’s no need for attitude because you can’t think up already available solutions.
Good thing I don't already need to spend all my time working
It's just part of living in a corporate hellscape.
Thanks, I hate it
Your parents literally dont care what you think about the life they gave you. They got their dopamine, and they don't give a shit.
There's one just down the street from me! A day's worth of food is about $100 there. So, uh.
Hmm. Yeah, my local farmer's markets are expensive, but the CSA subscriptions are reasonable (i.e. the ones where you pay upfront for the season's produce, reducing the farmer's risk, then get a box of produce every week). Some, you can volunteer on the farm to get "free" food.
For a lot of people the most radical thing they can do is tear up their lawn and grow a garden.
And I'd honestly love to have the necessary time and energy in order to do that.
Most of these things shouldn't be considered food anyway.
Groceries?
I think it would be better to state the specific products rather than call out grocery stores at large. With this info I cant write a letter to Costco telling them I think they should drop a product and why
Some of the specific products and manufacturers are listed in the article.
Eggland’s Best and Land O’ Lakes
Well, technically not the entire world, but North America most likely and USA for sure.
If I go out and buy Coca Cola, it's not made in a country with legalized slavery. Of course I still try to avoid it and prefer local products over stuff made by American megacorporations.
I have previously read that basically every Fortune 500 company has divisions that profit off of prison labor.
Indeed it would be a dereliction of Duty for them not to Chisel everybody else down as much as possible to take a larger share. Seeing as the government is to corrupt to stop them as it is bound to do by law.
I love how there's actual companies like Coke, Pepsi, McD's, BK, Aldi, and then there's Kellog's Rice Krispies - Guess anything else Kellog's is fine then.
Except if it's from Aldi.
Who "sell" products? Which ones makes them?
Willie Ingram picked everything from cotton to okra during his 51 years in the state penitentiary, better known as Angola.
During his time in the fields, he was overseen by armed guards on horseback and recalled seeing men, working with little or no water, passing out in triple-digit heat. Some days, he said, workers would throw their tools in the air to protest, despite knowing the potential consequences.
“They’d come, maybe four in the truck, shields over their face, billy clubs, and they’d beat you right there in the field. They beat you, handcuff you and beat you again,” said Ingram, who received a life sentence after pleading guilty to a crime he said he didn’t commit. He was told he would serve 10 ½ years and avoid a possible death penalty, but it wasn’t until 2021 that a sympathetic judge finally released him. He was 73.
This is horrifying in all regards
It's basically slavery. I'm willing to bet that most of these people working were black too.
13th amendment
Exactly, we never outlawed slavery, we made it explicitly legal. Cops have always been slave catchers in this country.
It was horrible to do to people that you claim to be 'rehabilitating'. Now it's going to be done to whatever marginalized group is next in the list, and provided no actual challenge or resistance, that list will grow to include people in trade unions, educated professionals, entertainers, free thinkers, any type of dissenter, oh and they've already dog whistled their plan to 'punish' people who donated to the Harris campaign.
Meanwhile the Trump administration is dismantling agencies that track and fight child/human trafficking. It's not by coincidence. The goal is that we all are essentially assets of the federal government that can be bought, sold, and/or stripped of citizenship if it becomes useful to the regime.
He was told he would serve 10 ½ years and avoid a possible death penalty, but it wasn’t until 2021 that a sympathetic judge finally released him. He was 73.
note: he was released because he wasn't usable as a prison laborer anymore. he was released because the prison couldn't make money off him anymore. he was released so he has to look for his own shelter.
Willie Ingram picked everything from cotton to okra during his 51 years in the state penitentiary, better known as Angola.
Fake news, this country only got fucked after Trump got elected or bush or reagan. It was all sunshine and peaches otherwise.
gReAtEsT cOuNtRtY iN tHe wOrLd
-most yankistanis
Had to find a way to keep the racists happy with the exception to the 13th amendment.
Well, it's not explicitly there for racists. Punishing crime with labor has a long history, both in and outside the US.
The most common kind in the US is community service as used for a minor punishment in place of incarceration.
It's by no means good, but the worst examples tend to disproportionately color the perceived level of injustice to it.
that's because of racism. Racial inequality in policing isn't caused by that clause though.
There are states that never allowed slavery that have the exception.
Not always. I'm sure it won't be a nation someday.
Let's hope that day comes soon.
“Made in USA” = prison labour.
Yeah. 13th ammendment. Slavery never ended.
"Except as punishment for a crime"
Economics of Everyday Things : Prison Labor
Barnes is one of around 800,000 incarcerated people with jobs in America's prison system. They grow crops, repair roads, fight wildfires, and manufacture a surprising number of the products we encounter in daily life, from office furniture to reading glasses. It's estimated that more than $11 billion worth of goods and services every year can be traced back to workers who are mostly paid pennies per hour for their labor, or even nothing at all.
The question to me is how could we fix it. I believe prison should be about herabilitation, but overall I'd say most of the population does not. Someone gets a DUI, robs a store, commits fraud, gets in a fight, beats their spouse, stabs someone, murders someone... whatever it is. People say they should be imprisoned, many say they should never be let out especially on multiple offenses. Most of the prisoners take the jobs because it is used as a "privilege.". You have to have good behavior to be eligible, then you choose one if you want with benefits that slowly "work off" hours of their sentences. (If it's available). Certain jobs pay more time off their sentences than others, and some will try to get into those jobs. Yet we will have people who scream that they shouldn't be let out after 5 years because they "insert crime here".
IF leaving their imprisonment and performing tasks in the world around people with good behavior isn't a step to proving they are re-integratable into society, what is? I would say they need a hell of a lot more therapy, access to actual healthcare, psychologists, and resources that allow for easy integration back into society so they can find gainful employment, cut ties with their past and land on two feet to be able to move forward without extreme struggles that bring them back in.
Our country doesn't vote for that, because those same things aren't available for citizens on the street who didn't commit crimes yet. And they think they are better and don't deserve less opportunities than those who did something illegal.
So I guess what I'm saying is the first step to reforming our prisons is reforming our healthcare system... And wage inequality... And fuck... It's not going anywhere
Slavery.
What a shithole country.
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...
this is the data that racists (like Kirk) use to justify white supremacy. But the wrongful conviction rate is proven to be nearly the same.
The report, Race and Wrongful Convictions in the United States 2022, reviewed the cases of 3,200 innocent defendants exonerated in the U.S. since 1989 and found that Black Americans are seven times more likely than white Americans to be falsely convicted of serious crimes. This is true across all major crime categories except for white collar crime, the report said.
We didn't end slavery, just made it palatable to the masses by labeling it "punishment for a crime". They just need people to feel superior to those being exploited. Claiming it's because whites were superior stopped being effective for the majority, so they made it so it seems they do more crime instead.
Additionally, there is more crime in predominantly black areas, but it's not because "black people are more violent" or whatever the hell, it's because racism has made it crazy difficult for black individuals that aren't born rich to progress. They were only sold houses or given apartments in certain areas, forced into poverty by lack of given opportunity, and while (I hope) that's less today, there has been a lasting effect on the general population. When you have to do crime to keep you and your family safe and fed, you do crime.
Any time somebody tries to tell me that racism isn’t really a thing anymore (yes, they do), I always ask:
“Black people have six times the incarceration rate of white people. That can mean one of two things: there’s systemic racism, OR they are committing more crimes because it’s in their nature as a race. So, which is it?”
They never want to answer. They have to keep the mask on. No matter how hard I press for an answer, they never give one and get pissed off. It’s very telling.
That can mean one of two things: there’s systemic racism, OR they are committing more crimes because it’s in their nature as a race. So, which is it?”
The racists will answer "it's the crimes".
Fucking Kirk died with this lie on his lips.
Racists never wish to discuss the nuance. When discussing culture, behavior, and intelligence of the black population, they never wish to discuss the myriad of variables that would cause any negative outcomes. It’s so complicated and does not come down to one race being superior. I will never understand racism.
When discussing culture
Also racists have a shit taste in music, can you imagine the 20th century US music scene without black musicians? What the hell would americana have to point to proudly if it weren't for the countless black artists that built entire new worlds here?
Like... do they think we get Elvis without black culture??? hahahahaha white people in the US would still be playing fiddles on top of hay bales if weren't for black people, not that there is anything wrong with that activity but like.... just look at how little country music ever changes vomits in mouth a little.
This is a good picture of "polite" racism in the North, too. We won't call them the N word, we'll just have them taken away.
Yeah, makes me wonder who's in the meat packing plants in WI; I'm sure the answer is more depressing than I thought.
Between "freeing" the slaves, only to aggressively rebrand them as criminals (eg, guilty of (verb) while black), and the wage slavery many of these companies are happy to engage in, everything has been pretty well cooked for a while.
If they brand you as a criminal and force you into a position of working as a slave, then your food, accommodations, and everything is provided for you. This is "classic" slavery where the slave owns nothing and the slaver provides everything, controlling what is, or isn't allowed, provided, acceptable, etc.
If they don't (or can't) brand you as a criminal, unless you're from a rich family, you end up as a wage slave, where you make just enough to scrape by, often sharing accommodations with others to afford the landlord's rent, never owning property of your own or building any level of wealth through property ownership.... You don't make enough to have a vehicle worth anything, nor anything else of any significant value. You're "free" to choose your slaver, and they let you pick which landlord you pay homage to... The main difference here is that you get to "pick" your oppressors, and now instead of the slaver providing everything for you (food, clothing, accommodation), you have to figure that out for yourself.
The difference is honestly quite small IMO. And when you look at it objectively, you find that a large majority of people are still in slavery in some form or another.
Look around you and realize that "middle class" is pretty much no longer a thing. You're either poor and a wage slave, very poor and/or criminal and a literal slave, or you have enough money to be "independently wealthy" being a landlord or one of the slavers.
They've built a system that can only sustain most people at a level of poverty that affords then no ability to escape from that poverty, while the owners and shareholders, landlords, and bosses of the world, sit on their asses and collect the fruits of our labor.
Even the punishment for possessing black people cocaine vs white people cocaine is ridiculous. The former used to be a mandatory 5 year sentence, the latter you could walk away with a probation. Fair sentencing act reduced the discrepancy a bit, but not completely IIRC.
👉👊
You may remember this by its legacy name: slavery!
"Slavery is now American Work Freedom Plus (tm)"
Bootstraps! Slavery gives you your first bootstraps! At very reasonable^tm^ interest rates!
I think all of the Fortune 500 companies have divisions that exploit prison labor.
They also get tax breaks for hiring felons they can pay less and even get reoffended on a whim.
The states get next to nothing either for this prison labor oftentimes, but if we looked at the deciders we would find kickbacks. Sweetheart property deals through proxies, sneaky kickbacks but nothing that could not be recognized as such.
Prison contracts are a big graft source too. A truly captive market.
In Canada, large companies that make or sell goods have to submit an S-211 modern slavery report. Here's the 2025 version from Costco: https://scalca.blob.core.windows.net/...
The catalogue: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/...
73 violations involving slave labour, 1 with child labour, am I reading that right?
More or less. 73 independent audits reported one or more issues related to slavery/forced labour (defined by Costco's own code), and one audit reported at least one issue related to child labour within Costco's supplier network. The exact dates, locations or details of audit results are not publicly provided in this report, but the important thing is that it is being audited, counted and brought to light at least internally, and any concerns from any report may be investigated by the Public Safety Minister.
Thanks this seems like really good information. I've never heard of this...
A lot of companies here as well have legal provisions in the contracts we have with external vendors to state anti-slavery.
While most critics don’t believe all jobs should be eliminated, they say incarcerated people should be paid fairly, treated humanely and that all work should be voluntary. Some note that even when people get specialized training, like firefighting, their criminal records can make it almost impossible to get hired on the outside.
“They are largely uncompensated, they are being forced to work, and it’s unsafe. They also aren’t learning skills that will help them when they are released,” said law professor Andrea Armstrong, an expert on prison labor at Loyola University New Orleans. “It raises the question of why we are still forcing people to work in the fields.”
JFC
The AP sifted through thousands of pages of documents and spoke to more than 80 current or formerly incarcerated people, including men and women convicted of crimes that ranged from murder to shoplifting, writing bad checks, theft or other illegal acts linked to drug use. Some were given long sentences for nonviolent offenses because they had previous convictions, while others were released after proving their innocence.
Reporters found people who were hurt or maimed on the job, and also interviewed women who were sexually harassed or abused, sometimes by their civilian supervisors or the correctional officers overseeing them. While it’s often nearly impossible for those involved in workplace accidents to sue, the AP examined dozens of cases that managed to make their way into the court system. Reporters also spoke to family members of prisoners who were killed.
They also aren’t learning skills that will help them when they are released
That's by design. Teaching people skills to support themselves gives them an opportunity to break out of the cycle of recidivism. Teaching people skills that are useless for most employers but are profitable to the slavers ensures that they are left disadvantaged, where they'll eventually end up back in prison for another round.
To the same end, having a culture where employers are legally permitted to background-check candidates for any old job makes it harder for reformed criminals to reintegrate into society.
When adding "tough on crime" politicians and their legislature to the mix, you can begin to see exactly what the goal is.
The most unrealistic thing in Shawshank Redemption was that anyone gave a fuck about those letters at the end. I'm pretty sure that nothing would've come out of it, and the jailer warden would've become a republican senator in a few years.
Slavery was never made fully illegal in the US. And if you vaguely define some crimes like “loitering” you can easily arrest people you disagree with.
Literally written into the constitution
The US is a prison nation.
If we have a civil war, that can change. I can't think of better recruits for soldiery and domestic, than those who have been wronged by the opposing force. It is a silver lining to the deterioration of the USA, if this evil can be dispelled for good.
Most of the US hates their neighbor/s, hence the strong anti-immigration push. That's beside the ingrained racism.
If a civil war breaks out, it'll be every man for himself or a loyalty pact based on color, origin, religion or geography like Afghanistan or Myanmar.
There won't be a "us vs them", it'll be "us vs all of the others".
But fantacizing about gravy seals is what ya'll do best.
It will never be defeated for good. Fascism is very profitable
What makes you think there will be organized resistance to the party?
Just oppression, purges, projection onto groups to be persecuted, and their assets atole.
The disfavored first, soon for the end of seizing their assets.
Not civil war, oligarcgic repression, as it looks now.
I don't need your civil war. It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
yes the USA is a slave colony empire and it always has been
Yeah, pretty much. https://www.unicor.gov/ if you want to find everything made that isn't food as well. It's a huge part of the industry.
I don't understand how this is so prevalent. Can a prisoner refuse, or just stand there without working? It's not like the twenty cents an hour or whatever they get is going to make their time much better. Or if their sentences get reduced for arbitrary menial work, that seems like a robbery of justice to victims. Is working in a sweatshop sort of deal so much better than reading books in a prison cell?
It's pretty common for people to be released before they've served their full sentence. It makes sense if we were to consider the purpose of prison to be rehabilitation — someone who cooperates is far more likely to be deemed safe to release. The problem is that the penal system barely pays lip-service to rehabilitation. Ideologically, it seems like it's split between two, often contradictory models: the rehabilitative approach, and the punitive approach.
If someone is in for a crime where early parole seems likely (if good behaviour), then it's not so much that their sentence is being reduced for doing the menial work, but that they will experience an effective increase to their sentence if they refuse to work.
Plus even if someone was unlikely to get parole, I imagine they'd still be pretty disincentivised to resist. I know someone who did time, and there was a particular prison guard who hated her, and when this guard was working, she would often find that her food was bad in some way, such as mouldy bread (She struggled with depression and suicidality, which meant there were periods where she would eat her food in her cell alone, rather than in the canteen). She would also receive disproportionate punishment for things under this guard, such as being sent to solitary confinement if someone tried to start a fight with her. I think the original beef with this guard started when my friend spat in her face during initial processing, but my point is that guards have an insane amount of power to make someone's already miserable life even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if refusing to work might lead to privileges being removed for the entire group, which would mean the guards wouldn't even need to punish you — the other prisoners would do it.
The prison system is disgustingly inhumane even when they're following all the rules they're meant to. It's even worse in reality though, because of how little accountability there is. People trying to push for political change constantly hit a wall because the average politician doesn't want to stick their neck out for prisoners, and the average voter thinks of themselves as ontologically different to prisoners (who they see as criminals who deserve everything they get (which also ignores the fact that a heckton of innocent people are in prison))
" Or if their sentences get reduced for arbitrary menial work, that seems like a robbery of justice to victims"
Victims are already robbed of justice. They are dragged through the courts, often being retraumatised again and again, because the system cares more about punishment of criminals than it does about actually helping people heal from a crime. As someone who has been a victim of a violent crime, one of the most painful things was learning that the same person who had robbed me had gone on to do more severe crimes after their release. I hate knowing that the prison system made that outcome more likely, and I wonder whether there might have been more justice in the world had I not reported my attack. It feels like the sentence they got for robbing me might as well have been a death sentence, from what I've heard about them after they were released. Society says "once a criminal, always a criminal", and then it puts you in a context where all you can be is a criminal. It's fucked up and it hurts my heart to think about. Someone made a victim of me, and that was something awful that should never have happened. However, it's not justice to then turn that person into a victim too (especially as I learned that they had had a pretty fucked up life before attacking me. It doesn't excuse it, but it does help to explain it).
Sorry. That got longer and heavier than I expected. I feel quite strongly about this topic.
It's a scam, like everything in modern prisons. They intentionally underfeed prisoners, so that you have to buy extra food from the prison store, where it's overpriced but at least you'll get the calories and nutrients you need to stay healthy. Most prisoners don't have external income, so they are forced to work those prison jobs for pennies on the dollar.
And this is just one example of how prison administrators have intentionally set things up to fuck over prisoners as much as possible. In the U.S., it is sad but true that a large percent of the general public simply does not care, they think the prisoners "deserve it".
Oh, and those books you're talking about, do you think those come for free? Do you think you'll get them if you're on the guards' shit list because you're too lazy to work? That varies by location, but you can be sure that there's no guarantees of access to literature.
Depends on where you wind up. You usually get punished, but some places are worse than others about it.
The most common punishment for refusing to work is suspending "privileges" like the ability to buy from commissary or recreation like yard time or visiting the library. Remember that it's common for hygiene items to only be available for purchase from commissary, so by denying you commissary access, they're effectively saying you can't buy extra tampons if you refuse to work.
At worst, it can be a reason to put you in isolation, move you to a higher security prison, or deny you parole.
hygiene items to only be available for purchase from commissary
There is a reason the US has 20% of the world's prison population but only 5% of the actual world population. It is one of the many injustices thrust upon our society by the ruling class for their benefit.
Same as it ever was
I learnt about this a couple years ago too, it's honestly not surprising given how many people have tried to call out the prison complex over the years
No no no. They're just temporarily relieved of their bootstraps. Once out, they can again be free and rich. Now, you take a barbarian country like China, Iran, or (gasp) Russia, those countries are crazy. They're the bad guys.
We're the good guys.
See? Simple. Now let's go check what's on Netflix.
I don't particularly disagree with the ethics of prison labor tbh. Do you? I think the issue here is implementation not the fact that prison labor == slavery. Americans have private prisons which are fundamentally unethical making labor discussion kinda moot.
It's more complex than just "prison labour isn't that bad."
I agree that prisoners should have jobs, opportunities to train for new vocations, something to be proud of accomplishing when they're locked away.
But that's not why they work. They work to make the prison more money, and in a profit driven prison system, it disincentivises rehabilitation because recidivism ensures a hefty circulating population of re-offenders.
In a system that saves money and stays competitive by using their prison labour as slave labour for pennies, there is no onus for that same system to try to help its prisoners not reoffend.
Seems like we're in agreement here then that the issue is for-profit prisons not prison labor itself.
What really americans are missing is the cost analysis here. I'm 100% certain that it would be cheaper for US to have federally run prisons exclusively and pay prison laborers min federal wage.
The invisible crime costs in the US are absolutely insane and in no way inline with any other developed country. I was just reading front page story how a guy in San Frascisco is using movie prop paper bags (like paper bag but without the noise) to hide his 300$ worth macbook from being stolen. That's literally like less than 3 hours of avg SF labor being at constant risk.
US prison system needs to be straight up reset from 0 - I don't see how anything else could work here as an outsider.
Even outside prisons, the entire culture is built around encouraging and classifying “crime” for the benefit of the rich and powerful, at the expense of the poor.
It’s so completely separate from growth and morality, I don’t think there’s any way to get there from here.
but come on! they work for money!
plus gays arent allowed to work
also use as part of the census in red states, to increase thier numbers for house seats majority, hence the large prison population.
And compared to the slaves in xinjang, this is different and acceptable, right?
Nah, both are terrible
someone: china bad
.ml user: shocked_pikachu.jpg
i agree that both are terrible but i do not see in the public the same level of outrage or boycotts
That's not whataboutism for a change, given the thread. That's a .ml user. They're almost certainly pointing out that China gets way more attention for this than the US does. Whataboutism in this thread would be saying "oh, but China does it too"
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According to the article, some of the companies who sell products that are made with slave labor include:
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