US demands access to tourists' social media histories
8 months ago by schizoidman to c/technology
shipped to El Salvador.
I'm white as hell, but with the comments I make on the orange clown I'll be shot into orbit in nothing more than a speedo (only because nudity is for the us a no ! no !! no !!! no !!!! no !!!!! no way)
I'm thinking of visiting Montreal for beer. Crossing North from Vermont.. y'all gonna kick my ass before I can spend that glorious USD $$ ?
Uhhhh, it's more than their social media.
The new proposal would make it "mandatory" for ESTA applicants to provide US authorities with access to five years of their social media activity on platforms such as Instagram, TikTok and X.
Visitors will also be required to provide information on what US authorities dub "high-value data fields," meaning all of their phone numbers over the past five years and all of their e-mail addresses over the past 10. Moreover, they will be forced to provide personal details on family members as well as provide their own biometric data.
The proposal was published in the Federal Register on Tuesday, meaning that it will be open for public comment for 60 days, at which point it will become law unless challenged in court.
Checks SimpleLogin account… 230 email aliases to date… gg, I might need a few more pages to note all of those.
Plus, how tf are they going to know if you're telling them about everything? This will just make people not visit.
For real, there really is no way for them to know for sure.
Also, I just remembered Apple has throwaway emails built in now, nobody will think to list those. So do you just go to jail straight away if you miss listing one of those, because you lied on a federal form?
So do you just go to jail straight away if you miss listing one of those, because you lied on a federal form?
Unfortunately, that probably depends on what color you are. They have taken a few whities, but that was probably just for show.
Our country isn't really safe to visit right now, please come back if/when we're better. Most Americans are sorry about this.
Nah I don't believe so, the vast majority of the people doesn't really care about privacy at all and they will gladly provide all the "required" information just to enter in the country. I guess they already know a lot of information about you (google account, biometric data in phones, GPS location, frecuent used apps...) and they just want you to provide even more information and tag you as an danger if you don't answer exactly what they know about you.
230 email aliases to date
That looks suspicious and a lot of work, let's just send you to and ICE detention facility until we decide what to do with you.
Can’t argue with that logic. I’ll report to my nearest border crossing if/when this passes to make things easier for everyone.
The Fourth Reich thanks you for your understanding!
I was wondering why this ‘five years’ thing popped up now, because I'm pretty sure I've heard of it long ago.
The US was known for ages to be very shady at the borders, like circa fifteen years ago when they detained a security researcher who was travelling to a conference to tell about yet another of NSA's shenanigans: they held him for hours, searched through his devices, and in the end denied entry.
Emails? Wtf?
I think that's objectively worse than North Korea, they only check what you have with you as far as I'm aware
This is a shame honestly. I've just remembered about Lucas' narrative art museum.
Been there twice, it was interesting and already shocking in 2008.
You US Americans should visit Europe or live there for a while. Then you can decide to come back or stay but you'll have at least a reference point in your brain that things can be different and maybe that the US isn't the greatest country in the world in all fields.
The US is a third-world country that failed upwards
I dunno, and this sanity check is coming from someone who's visited over a dozen times and loves it there... EU is not all fun and games, they are going to enforce chat control, apparently bowing to pressure on GDPR, has enforced facial recognition to enter, and right wing parties are growing in multiple countries including the big economic houses: Germany, France, UK. We're all over here looking at you folks to show us the way and if you blink in your resolve, you're going to end up where we are.
On a positive note, Drumpf's policies are hitting a wall of awareness, resistance and resolve. Our recent elections are giving some hope. His pedophile protecting tight grip is loosening it's hold as his desperately unpopular and catastrophic policies are forcing "masks off" upping of their rhetoric and abusive policies. This shows their real racist nazi agenda to everyone and it's only dropping their approval. We're worried they will cook the books next November, but the hope is we can reign in the insanity and undo the damage in the coming decade. It's going to take that long and we will need to start with our dear friends in Canada).
The EU is now talking about doing what the US was already doing more than a decade ago when Snowden Revelations came out.
And don't get me started on things like the relative ratios of "death by police" and percentage of people in prision (to mention just the things related to the use of force in policing) between America and Europe.
The EU is at least a decade behind the US in creeping autoritarianism and a lot of that shit has been imported from the US (including the new style far right, which amongst other things was set-up with money from American billionaires which Steve Bannon brought to Europe years ago very openly to "create far right parties" and is ideologically fed by American money using social media which for example paid Cambridge Analitica to use Facebook to fuel Brexit).
In this turn of the Wheel of History, the equivalent of Nazism is spreading out from America.
I agree with you. I'm not saying the EU isn't doing better on substantially every level like education, social services, policing, well being, worker rights, etc. I'm saying the EU is at risk and it's it goes beyond just the US and global tech corpratism to authoritarian & oligaritarian influence of (soft and hard) compaigns to shift the EU far right. I am saying I hope the EU can hold on to what they have and push back further!
On a side note, the Nazi's borrowed a lot of their eugenics from the US and our deeply ingrained racism, so I'm not 100% sure this is new
I'll continue to equate the right wing with far right extremism until they give me evidence to conclude otherwise. You can call that a code for "out of power" if that's your way of thinking, but it's not mine and I certainly didn't use it that way. I believe it's the reality of the ratcheting overton window for 50 years.
I would agree that far right extremism qualifies as right wing. Trouble is, in Germany the AfD has identical positions as CDU/CSU as of decade or two ago, and both would be considered to be left wing in the US political context. A very left party like BSW was attempted to be smeared to be right wing.
Such labels assigned by the mainstream media have become meaningless, so I would encourage you to look at party programs and their voting patterns in parliaments to gauge where they really stand. I will avoid mentioning the general regression to pre-party times to avoid further confusion.
Personally I've been boycotting travel to the US or even just with a transfer in the US since the PATRIOT act.
Already over a decade ago I very purposefully chose Canada (highly recommended, by the way) for a month vacationing in North America rather than the US.
The writting has been on the wall for this shit ever since they allowed the TSA to start confiscating traveller's mobile phones and computers way back in Bush's day - the main difference with the current administration compared to the previous ones is that they're open about what they're looking for.
and maybe that the US isn't the greatest country in the world in all fields.
I think that's why they want our "high value data fields".... ☺️
Is this European exceptionalism?
No, I guess Canada and possibly many other countries are similar but I didn't experience them yet.
Oh, man. Anyone else remember how Republicans used to threaten to exercise their 2A rights in response to filling out a basic census report?
Yeah. I miss the days when those folks were considered the standard for "Conservative values". They were practically antifa back then.
Current contents of the shell don't say much about past contents of it.
If the Dems aren't running on abolishing ICE and completely dismantling the police state, now, they're setting up to throw the 2028 election.
So are their voters.
Doubtful. The Democrats we have run on the platform of keep everything exactly the same. No changes, we're all good here. No notes.
Which strangely enough sounds exactly like what a conservative stance actually is. The "conservatives" are the extremists now and them dems are spineless snails.*
- also known as snails.
Non-spineless snails exist, checkmate.
I don't know what I was expecting but it wasn't that. Kinda disappointed it wasn't a Rick Roll.
Do not visit the US
literally, I let my VISA expire and it was hard because I live on the frontier so I'll miss out on a lot of things but it is not worth it
last time I needed to cross the border I was detained for an extra hour (not counting the queue) just because I didn't cross during the pandemic
fuck the US, fuck fascism
I still remember a trip I took with my parents to Vancouver and Seattle. We are from Brazil.
The difference was night and day, especially the infrastructure, landscape, and the appearance of the people who worked there. Seattle felt much more somber and gray.
The only ones who seemed overtly happy were the waitresses, but since these jobs in the U.S. rely heavily on tips, it felt more like forced role-play to get extra money compared to the more down-to-earth Canadian customer service.
Unfortunatel I feel like most people will complain about this and visit anyway. I'd be very happy to be wrong about this though.
Only ignorant people. I had dreams of visiting and maybe doing a road trip, but under Trump I'm definitely not going there voluntarily. Even if my employer wants me to go there on business I'm refusing. I'd rather find another job than cross the US border.
I've recently had a workshop with teams coming from different parts of Europe and North America.
The USA was an option as a location. Needless to say, I wasn't hot about it, and probably many others as well, so Eastern Europe was chosen instead.
Eastern Europe was chosen instead
oof
I really wanted to cycle across America. The states are so close and different compared to Australia. I doubt I'll get the chance now.
Well I used to go to Vegas quite often for conferences and now that's stopped because apparently no one else wants to go either. I think they are having it in Leeds this year, which is quite the downgrade let me tell you.
Better food though.
I think maybe they're intentionally isolating themselves?
Always wanted to see a modern country becoming dystopian though. Could be a big hit on tripadvisor. Once a beacon for freedom in the western world, the US decided it really liked how North Korea is treating its people and decided to do the same using its love affair with big tech psychos like Sam Altman and Elon Musk.
"Enjoy the once in century experience of empire collapse from the first row, go sightseeing to 'once grand but now little more than decrepit and fast fading façades' and return home with a warm 'at least it's not us' feeling (return trip might be from El Salvador) unlike the poor sods who live in the place"
Depends on the officer you're dealing with. There's multiple stories, from before Trump ever took office, of people being detained for up to a day for saying this or refusing to grant access to their phone. I can only imagine it's worse now.
Visitors will also be required to provide information on what US authorities dub “high-value data fields,” meaning all of their phone numbers over the past five years and all of their e-mail addresses over the past 10. Moreover, they will be forced to provide personal details on family members as well as provide their own biometric data.
That's an entry ban for many people here. I do not know in which forums I posted some questions back in Dec 2020. I totally do not know the numbers of those prepaid sims I used while traveling 2016 till 2019. I used their mobile data and they have been in the trash for a decade. I also do not not every trash mail, mail redirect and mail service I have used since 2015. That must be hundreds of adresses.
Your point stands, but 2019 was more than five years ago
Trying to isolate the country from what used to be our allies, then take away all our rights and turn this degrading shithole into North Korea where the citizens are law bound to kiss their "leaders" ass and pretend it doesn't fucking stink.
its is the foundation of geopolitics that russia uses.
krasnov is adhering to PUTINS wishes.
it's so tiring to watch people just not realize the natural progression to all of this, like how can you not see it's gonna be YOU next in a few years when you post on facebook about how you're disappointed about supreme leader trump's tax policy and the secret police show up at your door
Americans are incapable of thinking that far ahead. They will literally scoff at any foresight, like the future is unknowable.
I'm an American but alright
Me too 😭
My neighbors heads are firmly wedged all the way up their asses. These old fools act like everything is just fine because the boots aren't on their necks yet.
they are kept complacent, because they still have a job that pays moderate or well off where they live off of, plus the propaganda of the media keeping them mostly ignorant.
It's amazing how much the US doesn't want you to go there, even if it's just to visit.
Despite all the mediocrity, there are some things to see there, but if that's the authorities' attitude (and this here is not the first example of it), yeah, I think I'll skip.
It’s also to keep people in.
If the earning reports of hotel REITs are anything to go by that is exactly what's happening.
Make Murica Great Again or something....
Lol, what tourists
Haha this was me, except even around age 20, when I moved to the UK, I was thinking I might want to move to the USA later in life. But the more I've learned about the country since, the less I'd want to live there. The gun mania, the religion mania, the actual political options being all squeezed into the centre-to-far-right spectrum all sound nightmarish. (Tbh we're kinda having that last issue in the UK too, but to a less extreme degree.)
That's me. Wanted to move there because software engineer. Now I'm 30 and fuck no. Major changes would need to happen and even then I'm not sure I'd feel safe. It's not the damn shootings that bother me even, it's that so many people support Trump and ICE. Those people will still be around even when Trump is gone. Meaning at any time the US could elect a less incompetent version of Trump.
Fascism.
With race-based xenophobia.
Most maga can't afford to leave the country much less their own state.
Indubitably.
I finally got to use that word, thank you good sir.
Good idea. Let's just do what the fascists are doing. That'll show them!
For the rest of the world it's a smart idea, who would want self proclaimed domestic terrorists into their country?
I feel deeply sorry for the poor EU agent who has to sift through the depravity that likely exists on your average MAGA twat's phone. You hear about those police staff members who have to view all the CSAM to investigate it and how it traumatises them, this would be the next tier down
It's probably just as bad because we see more Republicans get outed as kid diddlers than anyone else.
A lot of Americans on the right famiously doesnt own a passport and doesn’t leave the country.
But why would you leave the Greatest Country on Earth™?
They get angry if someone else is having buttsex witin the privacy of their own house and are of the same gender.
They get angry if someone else has any autonomy over their own body.
They get angry if someone with slightly different color skin or speaks slightly differently is pulling a paycheck doing a job they wouldn’t do and looking after their own family. Basically existing.
You say that as if republicans have suddenly developed a critical thinking ability and wouldn’t simply give into ego to be angry at the principle.
you know its bad when they dont report how tourism is doing in places like florida, texas. its 1-2 punch , anti-immigration policies has probably affected them severely, and the lack of tourism dollars to those welfare states.
World cup season
it comes with the territory. Working in U.S. tourism occaisionally means eating an inordinate amount of shit.
One of my relative was stuck in us borders because he didn't have social media pages to his name so they thought he was a terrorist.
This was in 2021 I believe.
This made me scared to go even before the orange man came back.
"I don't use social media, and I don't have an email."
What’s Lemmy?
It’s a social medium. It’s not the idea of it that’s shitty, it’s the prevalent platforms.
If this shit passes, the EU should apply the same rule and when we find a fucking MAGAt, stamp "Entry Denied and Fuck Off!"
I decided to never return to the US after they brought in mandatory fingerprinting. It's progressed so much further now. Land of the free*
What country doesn't do fingerprinting? The entire world seems about the same in terms of surveillance.
Oh dear, things have worsened since I last looked, including 29 EU states just late this year.
EU passports and ID already have the fingerprint stored digitally on them. If a EU nation wants to they can just get the fingerprint of every EU citizen that enters their country by air. Technically illegal but who’s gonna stop them.
Don't worry about it! The Democrats will oppose this and get it kicked out for being un American. And if they don't succeed then all you have to do is wait until they get back into office and they'll executive order it straight outta town in an instant.....
Right?
The only party that can oppose anything effectively is a third party.
Well we look forward to the democrats being an effective opposition. Oh wait.... 🫠
How... how much gun violence do you think actually happens here?
There's a lot by number, and that's a serious fucking issue, but the US is also massive. It's not a regular or frequent danger of normal life here.
Even those numbers are pumped up by the fact that suicide by gun is counted in the exact same "gun violence" statistics as gang violence, and the "school shootings" statistics include all from the "gun violence" stats that occur within a certain radius around, regardless of when it happened (summer break, middle of the night, etc) or if it was any danger to students.
News overfocuses on shit like that because it pulls eyes and clicks, and therefore ad revenue.
Again, it is a serious fucking problem, but it's not the kind of thing you're going to experience in daily life or as a tourist.
Mass shootings are still proportionally a lot more common than in similar countries:
There were 109 public mass shootings in the United States and 35 public mass shootings in 35 other economically and politically comparative countries between 2000 and 2022. The United States makes up 33 percent of the combined population of these 36 countries; however, it also accounts for 76 percent of public mass shooting incidents and 70 percent of victim fatalities in these countries. (source)
The USA has about 5 times the general (non-suicide) homicide rate compared to the UK.
Add to that the 20 times higher gun ownership rate between USA and Scotland, plus the mental health crisis and extreme political polarisation, and I would rather just not be there, you know 🤷
Perfectly valid, and thanks for not just jumping on the US bad dogpile and instead citing some stuff.
I'm just speaking up because I've seen a lot of people online from outside the US running with this idea that gun violence is like, a daily occurence that every US citizen deals with regularly, when that's so fucking far from the reality.
Yeah, things are a powder keg over here lately and the accessibility of firearms doesn't help, but I've met only one person in my almost 35 years of life who's ever been held at gunpoint and they're the only person I know who has ever been through any form of gun violence.
There's plenty of reasons to avoid this place for a good long while unfortunately, but I feel like the gun danger has been overblown.
Yeah, hence why I didn't say anything to counter anything else, or that it was a good place to visit anytime soon.
Got any other mindblowing facts for us?
I have and do, likely more than you. Thanks for patronizing!
That doesn't change my point, that the danger of gun violence is a problem, but is considerably made out to be worse than the reality by the media.
Like, we have states larger than some European countries. If you took the reporting on all the bad shit happening over the equivalent space/population amount in Europe it would be pretty fucking harrowing as well.
I've known multiple people fall into a life of constant anxiety due to overexposing themselves to the media. Convinced that every city was a fucking gun violence warzone. That horrible things were happening all the time. They didn't know anyone who knew anyone who had experienced the things they were convinced were regular horrible occurences. And they knew more than one person (mutual friends) that worked and lived in the US city with the highest homicide rate at the time. None of those people had been even in the vicinity of gun violence.
I've been around for nearly 35 years, and I enjoy talking with people. I've met only one single person who had been a victim of gun violence, in that they were robbed at gunpoint while working nights at a gas station in a rough area.
There are fucking studies about this shit that are over 15 years old that show that exposure to news media back then caused people to ridiculously overestimate the frequency of crime (and especially violent crime). News has only become more emotionally charged since.
I'm not saying America is some amazing place. I'm just saying that the news would have you believe that almost everyone here has had a gun violence experience, or that visitng the US is unsafe because of gun violence, when that's not the case.
So, why then are the statistics of dead, murdered school children so much higher than anywhere else in the world? I just googled, and there are 4300 child gun deaths in US every year, about 3600 in school shootings. That's an apalling number, and the fact you guys don't try to restrict guns, is even more apalling imo. For general gun deaths......"The U.S. has significantly higher gun death rates than most other developed nations, ranking as an outlier among high-income countries, though lower than some Latin American nations. While the U.S. rate is substantially higher than places like Canada, Australia, and European countries, it's lower than countries with extreme violence like El Salvador or Venezuela, but its overall firearm mortality is in the top percentiles globally. " USA has third world statistics, and while 3rd world countries do have a lot of gun violence, they have almost zero school shootings...... I'm not trying to be patronising, but it sounds as if you have a somewhat sheltered existence. To the rest of the normal and decent world, guns are restricted to those who have a need, and are demonstrably sane. USA is open slather, with no public psych care available, and you guys think this is normal. YOU are the outliers, and your cowardly politicians are owned by the gun lobby, so it perpetuates. Sane people see how fucking stupid this is, even as you deflect the problem to the media, and try to minimize it. The statistics say that you are wrong, and your children are paying for it.
Don't come here is the message they're sending. The US is closed for business.
Freedom!
lol the World Cup is gonna be yuge success bigly
"why are the canadian matches so much more populated compared to ours?"
Surely FIFA fans won't put up with an incredibly oppressive country
tourists? what tourists?
Seems they got really tired of people bringing burner phones when visiting the USA.
Read between the lines.... 100 billion dollar bailout coming to aid the tourism businesses affected by the new rules..
His hotels...
Just like the farmer bailout due to the losses incurred from the tariffs
To be fair, the farmer bailout is a drop in the bucket of what they're down over lost sales to China and higher fertilizer prices. Like, have the day you voted for and all that, but 12B is 1% of this years military budget.
Not that I would ever set foot in the US but what constitutes Social Media?
What’s social media?
What's "US tourism"?
What
Is up
With that?
This is, technically
Isn’t this more of a messaging board? I don’t think messaging boards are social media.
Tbh I'm not sure. Someone just said once that Reddit is so I kinda thought that made sense at the time.
There is definitely more B's on something like Facebook, I'd agree.
An online message board is a type of social media yes. The Wikipedia definition seems solid:
"Social media are new media technologies that facilitate the creation, sharing and aggregation of content (such as ideas, interests, and other forms of expression) amongst virtual communities and networks."
Thanks for sharing. I still question it though due to it wasn’t called that before till MySpace became so big and popular. Message boards been around since the 90s, some would say late 80s depending on your perspective. Or is a message board one community with multiple topics?
dont know who has to hear this but it's ok to lie to the government.
That is false. Lying to federal agents, investigators, or officials can land you in a world of shit. See 18 U.S.C. 1001 for details.
In context I think they mean morally
And what happens if I forget something? So many email addresses and phone numbers to avoid marketing spam… no way I could honestly recall them all.
This is more relevant than ever: https://youtu.be/eiyfwZVAzGw
Or for those who want to skip Google snorting up your data: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw
Sadly, Palantir will probably find them all and then they'll accuse you of lying or withholding info.
red state tourism must be taking a hit, if the MSM arnt reporting it.
How long until the USA institutes Sakoku or something like it?
Showing up at the airport with my file cabinet full of old memes.
It wasn't
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As a Canadian, I won't be travelling to the Republic of Gilead anytime soon. That country is becoming worse by the minute.
And since Americans think I'm Latino (I'm not), I don't want to be shipped to El Salvador.
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