Argue!

4 months ago by gigastasio to c/lemmyshitpost

circuitfarmer 104 points 4 months ago
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radiopancakes 65 points 4 months ago

I'd happily pay European-level taxes on my gas if I had literally any alternative to driving in my area.

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RickyRigatoni 18 points 4 months ago

I'd happily pay european-level taxes on my gas if we had the same amount of affordable electric alternatives.

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PalmTreeIsBestTree 11 points 4 months ago

I’d pay those taxes if the dumb wars ended, we did not have a scammy healthcare system, and a public safety net that actually functioned well plus not having to use fucking middle men to pay my goddamn taxes every year…

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TachyonTele 2 points 4 months ago

Which country doesn't do that?

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circuitfarmer 1 point 4 months ago
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MrSulu 79 points 4 months ago

The meme captures the absolute frustration in Europe and the rest of the world for our spiralling costs. Costs arising directly from the elected President illegally attacking Iran, without discussing with anyone but Israel.

We're not arguing who has the greater car / truck dependency. But for those still wanting to pursue the point, don't forget that Europeans pay considerably more taxes for our public services and so more tax now too.

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namingthingsiseasy 15 points 4 months ago

This is true, but the risks of the oil economy have been known for a very long time. Everybody knows that the oil/auto fuel supply chain is in areas with fragile geopolitical relations and it's not like this hasn't happened before.

What we should be doing is channeling our frustration toward transitioning from ICE automobiles to EVs[1], but look at how slowly European carmakers are adapting. The rate of change in Germany has been embarrassingly slow and China is galaxies ahead of anyone else. We need to invest and compete, rather than throwing up our hands and blaming others for fucking up things we shouldn't be depending on anymore.

[1]: and improving public transit too of course

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MBech 3 points 4 months ago

I'm not really convinced China is that far ahead of everyone else in the EV market. Sure, they have cheap cars, but is the quality better? I haven't tried a lot, but to me it seems the quality and features are pretty much the same as european, japanese or south korean. I just bought a Japanese car, because the BYD that was comparable but cheaper just felt like a toy car. Everything about the interior just felt like cheap plastic. The infotainment screen was a mess, and I had to go into 3 (3!) submenus to turn on the heated seats.

I'm not convinced the chinese cars are better. They're comparable and cheap, but it's not like they offer something no one else does.

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namingthingsiseasy 3 points 4 months ago

Agreed, they probably are cheap garbage (I myself don't know, I haven't driven cars regularly in a while), but two things:

  1. Manufacturing volume is really important in making cars. You need know-how, you need experts and ways to make things better and deliver incremental improvements, and that becomes a lot easier when you have higher volumes.

  2. People don't have lots of cash to burn these days - quality is easy to sacrifice when you don't have the cash to pay up.

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Jaberw0cky 1 point 4 months ago
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MrSulu 1 point 4 months ago

Yes yes and thrice, yes. 🙏

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ivanafterall 42 points 4 months ago

How do you do, fellow non-Americans!? Colour me gobsmacked at the euros I'm paying when I procure my petrol (by the liter! this is non-negotiable) to fill my tiny aluminium moped.

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jobbies 16 points 4 months ago

Have at it bro, you guys elected a diaper-wearing moron for the SECOND TIME because of the price of eggs 😅

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silverneedle 1 point 4 months ago

Shaming someone for wearing diapers, which is in and of itself completely harmless, and not for the fact that their government is sending minorities into concentration camps and burning the planet down hurts people who wear diapers that survive like you and me much more than it hurts the addressee.

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Flower 5 points 4 months ago

You have to say quart instead of liter or they don't get it. It's close enough.

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ivanafterall 2 points 4 months ago

I say, good looking out, ol' chap! Yeer a good laddie!

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Drusas 15 points 4 months ago

Europeans don't have to drive to survive the way most Americans do.

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porous_grey_matter 44 points 4 months ago

Depends. In cities no. In rural areas or small villages, often yes.

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Blackmist 2 points 4 months ago

But then that goes for America too.

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porous_grey_matter 5 points 4 months ago

I guess? Most American cities have extremely poor public transport. NY and Chicago are okay but in most of Europe any place with more than 50-100k people will at least have a tram system and regional trains, maybe even a metro. It's just when you get down to places with only a few thousand or a few hundred people, then the bus to town might only come once in the morning and once at night or something like that.

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MBech 2 points 4 months ago

It's not like all European towns have perfect public transit. We have plenty of places without a busline too. I agree it's not to the extent of the USA, but here in Denmark we have a lot of smaller communities that simply don't have busses, because they're not directly sandwiched between two bigger cities.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 2 points 4 months ago

no, in Statesia most cities don't have functional public transit

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timestatic 1 point 4 months ago

Im also european but even in rural areas you tend to not have to drive american distances as often. Americans often consider anything below 3h drive a short drive (crazy right?)

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SkunkWorkz 30 points 4 months ago

Ah yes goods and supplies don’t have to come by truck. They can just public transport themselves to the supermarket.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 5 points 4 months ago

don't forget the postal delivery pony

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HerbalGamer 17 points 4 months ago

Try living in the alps, for just one instance.

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theacharnian 9 points 4 months ago

There are more European countries than the Netherlands.

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namingthingsiseasy 3 points 4 months ago

Well it's about time we fix that, isn't it?

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theacharnian 2 points 4 months ago

Gekoloniseerd

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Killer 0 points 4 months ago

The distances the average american has drive is greater than that of the average european

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theacharnian 5 points 4 months ago

Sure. Doesn't mean that there aren't millions upon millions of Europeans who spend more than 1-2 hours per day in their cars.

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MrSulu 9 points 4 months ago

A crass misunderstanding, but sure, if its what you think.

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Tar_alcaran 6 points 4 months ago

Oh no, if it isn't the consequences of everyone's collective actions

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EggInDisguise 43 points 4 months ago

Yeah, fuck that guy for not being born in a different place or having the socioeconomic standing to pack up their entire life and move to a better place. He deserves to be miserable for other people's collective actions!

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Drusas 12 points 4 months ago

Lack of empathy for people who inherited their forebearers mistakes is not a desirable character trait.

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lemmock -15 points 4 months ago
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Tar_alcaran 44 points 4 months ago

That's such a nonsense argument. 80% of the US lives in an urban area. That has plenty of options for walkable neighborhoods with public transportation. The reason that those don't exist are active policy choices that people have voted for and keep voting for.

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Drusas -16 points 4 months ago

Have you even been to the US? Even most of the urban areas have horrible public transit and even worse infrastructure for biking.

Maybe get off your high horse and engage in reality.

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zqps 20 points 4 months ago

Living in a country under laws written by oil corporations, in cities whose public transportation was privatized and destroyed by car manufacturers.

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Dashi 9 points 4 months ago

Yes... I'm occasionally sorry I was born too. Thanks for that.

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Drusas -2 points 4 months ago

Yes but no. What you say came later.

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lemmock -11 points 4 months ago
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jobbies 3 points 4 months ago

What about rail? What about EVs?

What about trading in those giant penis extensions you drive for something more fuel efficient?

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GreenBeanMachine 3 points 4 months ago
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jobbies 4 points 4 months ago

Of course, excuse me while I take the monorail into town to do the weekly shop.

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PalmTreeIsBestTree 2 points 4 months ago

Scandinavians drive a lot

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spitfire 1 point 4 months ago

Oh really?

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serpineslair 1 point 4 months ago

Yes we do.

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jubilationtcornpone 14 points 4 months ago

I have to drive 32 miles (~51 km) one way to my job and there is no public transit anywhere around here.

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Gammelfisch 10 points 4 months ago

Indeed, fuel in Japan is higher than in Europe. In the USA, fuel should take a backseat and the cost of healthcare should be the main topic for change.

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betterdeadthanreddit 9 points 4 months ago

Should try to convince people that it's less expensive to drive in Yarp because they buy liters of petrol instead of gallons of gas.

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folekaule 14 points 4 months ago

I've suggested this for ages to sell people on metric. Gas sounds cheaper per liter (smaller number), you weigh less in kg, etc. I don't know why gas stations aren't all over this with their shady marketing and 9/10 of a cent pricing.

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Limonene 9 points 4 months ago

No idea about this. I drive a Honda Civic in the US, and hardly notice gas prices. I'm much more concerned about food prices, rent prices, and unemployment rate.

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Aneb 2 points 4 months ago

At least you have a car you can sleep in if rent gets too high. I hope its paid off.

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Fedizen 9 points 4 months ago

Actual weekly gas spending as a household budget item is probably higher in the US on average.

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beejboytyson 7 points 4 months ago

Good thing my quality of life went down to protect checks notes baby eating pedofiles? OK...

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chatokun 6 points 4 months ago

Me with my tiny range electric car finally being smug about something.

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vathecka 6 points 4 months ago

Ill complain about whatever I want, fuck you

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LORDSMEGMA 2 points 4 months ago

At least the Europeans have public transportation

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pseudo 1 point 4 months ago

This is about americain people. I don't think this adress to us, french people.

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sundray 5 points 4 months ago

I don't generally complain to Europeans about anything at all.

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uriel238 5 points 4 months ago

To paraphrase Bill Nye, eye protection on; if you raise the cost of fossil fuels, fewer people will use them; eye protection off.

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But_my_mom_says_im_cool 5 points 4 months ago

Honestly when Americans chime in about anything going on in the world. When I hear an American complaining about another country or their actions, I just want Americans to sit down or go fix their own dumpster fire. I

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MBech 5 points 4 months ago

Baby needs to be thrown out with the bathwater. It was a fun project, but at some point everyone needs to cut their losses, and accept that uncontrolled capitalism is not it.

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But_my_mom_says_im_cool 1 point 4 months ago

So then get to it, throw out the bath water as it were and use that 2nd amendment, otherwise it’s all just talk and do nothing and let it go on

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Ajen 3 points 4 months ago

Sounds like you misunderstood the analogy, I don't think the person you're referring to has 2nd amendment rights.

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MBech 2 points 4 months ago

I'm not american, but you're right.

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humanamerican 4 points 4 months ago

Too many people here still think the problem is just Trump. They might temporarily agree with you but I guarantee if we get some shill like Newsom as our president in 2029 most people will go back to sleep.

I'm afraid things will have to get much worse here for the average suburbanite before they realize the dumpster is even on fire.

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But_my_mom_says_im_cool 3 points 4 months ago

I don’t see how you guys aren’t scrambling and begging for Newsom at this point. You think the rest of us around the world haven’t had to hold our nose and vote for a crappy politician to not let the fascists win? It sucks but it’s the only option you have. Staying home is actively helping the fascists. You guys ignored the issue for too long and frankly now it’s too late. There is no more time to pout and turn your nose up at the people opposing Trump

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humanamerican 2 points 4 months ago

I never said I wouldn't prefer him to Trump. My point is that America has been a proto-fascist imperialist wrecking ball for far longer than Trump has been around and that's only possible because too many Americans are brainwashed and propagandized into an absolute stupor.

And as far as the rest of the world is concerned, the main difference between Trump and Newsom is decorum. Newsom would absolutely continue supporting genocide in Gaza, sanctions against Cuba, nuclear brinksmanship with N Korea, and reckless belligerence against China. Yes, he'd do it with more tact, but that's not much comfort to the people being starved and bombed.

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vaultdweller013 1 point 4 months ago

Californian here, Newsom is only mildly better than a fascist as is. Dude would've been a Republican back in the 70s but the Republicans as a brand are too toxic to gain and hold substantial influence in the state.

Just look at his stupid ass podcast and his interview with the ol bleedy neck, he is far too nice to him and all but grovels. It's all rather pathetic, but regardless he would most likely be worse than Biden or even a milksop like Harris. Him getting the nomination would be four steps back, here's hoping he catches a bad case of death before 2028 assuming the US even survives to that point.

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Soulg 5 points 4 months ago

It's bad for us both and arguing about who has it worse is childish and stupid

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 5 points 4 months ago

And also it's always the Europeans that have it worse.

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spicehoarder 3 points 4 months ago

But overall they have it better because their villages and towns were made for people and not cars.

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sexy_peach 1 point 4 months ago

Laughs in doesn't even own a car

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protist 4 points 4 months ago

Americans drive more so pay more, even when prices are higher in Europe

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Doomsider 2 points 4 months ago

The average American drives twice as far as the typical European (16,000 vs 8,000).

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mcheva 2 points 4 months ago

Which of the gases are European's paying more than Americans? Is it Argon? Don't they know it's stored in the bulbs? It's basically free.

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humanamerican 2 points 4 months ago

My bike doesn't take gas, and (for now) my bus pass costs the same as it did before my government's latest bout of war crimes in Iran started.

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BigBananaDealer 5 points 4 months ago

your bike does take gas. has your grocery bill seemed to have gotten bigger?

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humanamerican 3 points 4 months ago

Fair enough, but I have some bike fuel reserves under my epidermis that I was hoping to unload anyway.

In all seriousness, this is a bad situation for everyone. But I still consider myself lucky to have a car free life right now.

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InFerNo 1 point 4 months ago

Spin it any way you want, stores are supplied by gas guzzlers

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WorldsDumbestMan 2 points 4 months ago

I want fossil fuels extinct, for the second time.

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Jaberw0cky 2 points 4 months ago
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Slayan 1 point 4 months ago

1,84 cad/L out here.

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not_IO 1 point 4 months ago

i wanna punch him

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halferect 0 points 4 months ago

Maybe Europe should do something about it instead of getting on their knees for trump

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