More like Xi

Anything's possible when you make shit up

dbzer0 mentions problems with anti ai trolls

Is dbzer0 pro AI?

the anti-genai trolls never let up, unfortunately. they must have dedicated months of their lives spinning up new sock-puppet troll accounts to bully, harass, and threaten one of our mods on an almost daily basis. because bullying zir off the internet is a great win for the fight against evil AI, right? yep, such effective activism, telling someone to kill themselves repeatedly simply for the "sin" of liking foss genai.

pawb I imagine has anti furry trolls

Maybe, but they’re also ban happy. The only ban I’ve gotten in almost 3 years of being on Lemmy is from pawb.social for, allegedly, being “a troll.” I’ve never commented anything disparaging about furries, and I’ve never commented or even voted on a pawb community.

Do you have any examples?

Yeah from memory most of our instance bans are gatekeeping and transphobia (and spam) which are the things we are the strictest on. We also notice that many transphobes are also bigoted or inflammatory in other ways as well, which makes sense as you wouldn't notice someone with bigoted views unless they were very willing to voice those views.

"Refused to be corrected", is hilarious.

I am banned from a bunch of blahaj because I said that they were as bad as ml once. Never made any transphobic comments (nor am I, for the record).

I was not surprised to see them so high up.

That's just how lemmy works when you ban with content deletion. It needs to work that way so that the content removal for content posted to local communities federates correctly

I used to do that but once the backend added that feature I removed that step from the automod script. Basically it was to prevent the communities here from being unmoddable on remote instances.

Yeah, from what I’ve seen Ada is very willing to forgive and unban people who apologize and seem to have learned something. But it seems like the vast majority of people banned for transphobia or other bigotry would rather double down. Sucks to suck.

Yep, pretty much. We also don't care if people ban evade, if evading the ban means they stop the behaviour that got them banned the first time around.

The goal is to make a safe community, not to punish people.

Do you mean a bans per capita graph other than the one in the post body?

That's true! I meant more as an example of a community that because of its nature has to ban more than other communities!

Also it occurs to me that I have no idea if rimu is looking at instance bans, community bans, or all bans. Instance bans will typically also include community bans which can inflate the numbers if all bans are counted in the data

Edit: in fact it's all weird. if you instance ban someone early before they can participate much they technically get very few community bans, whereas if you ban someone who has participated a lot they'll get lots of community bans as well (when you are instance banned you get banned from all communities you've participated in on that instance). an instance that is more trigger happy will have fewer community bans than an instance that is slow to instance ban

Edit 2: And then there's temporary bans! I dunno if those have been counted

Are you surprised the same people who get the most upset about being moderated also abuse moderation the most?

Autoritarian for not tolerating zionists and pro Russia?

Loving how this comment complains about authoritarianism but no replies to them show up when viewing it from their own instance

or theres a ton of bots. its more likely the former rather than latter.

any reason to think this? Apparently there is a brigading comm on lemmy.world called !fuck_ai@lemmy.world that attacks the ai comms on dbzer0? Also I know that a lot of troll accounts get made to harass some specific users on dbzer0?

the bans would be low, because it deters anyone from making the same violation in theory.

nah it just means people get salty and make a lot of alts.

Or they are safe spaces for certain groups

Unruffled supports zionism? Wait no, that's not it.

Or Trump? Nope, that's not it.

Oh! They made fake screenshots smearing instances! No, that was Feddit's admin team.

What about deleting users from the instance because Unruffled didn't like them? No, that's Rimu.

Or they federated an instance because they got offended at colonizers being told to fuck off? Oh, that was MrKapalan at .world

Maybe its the community about online socialists are a danger to society at large. Oh, that's SJW.

What did Unruffled do that needs to be accounted for? Not tolerate harassment of users?

Edit: 10 hours later active and no reply. I guess Unruffled doesn't have anything to answer since Kolankai can't give anything. Not shocking seeing how they're banned for being a weirdo to gender nonconforming people. https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog?userId=16790064

That’s blatantly false. You have the same critical thinking ability as MAGA.

It's not willful ignorance to block users, comms, or instances. I've been pushed to block news/politics comms across multiple lemmy instances just to save myself the time spent reading the smooth-brained mouth-breathers argue we should abandon money and build a utopia out of hopes and dreams.

That's actually quite wild coming from someone on dbzero0, which is doing the same on an instance level as instance policy

I’m sorry to hear you support genocide.

Draconic NEO mods a lot of dbzer0 and pawb.social communities, and every time he bans someone, he bans them on ALL of his communities. That's the cause of the pawb.social data.

And everyone who complains about him turns out to be a transphobe. Right after they make a yepowertrippinbastards post with a valid grievance, they suddenly pivot to making tons of alt accounts to harass him with transphobic hate speech for no reason. It's super convenient for him that all his critics turn out to be transphobes. I guess he's a good guy after all, since all of those random people with valid complaints turned out to be hateful lunatics.

Average number of downvotes (lower attitude is a higher ratio of downvotes to upvotes. Always 1 on instances with no downvotes) when banned:

dbzer0 has 0.68 which is the same as lemmy.world or lemmy.ca.

Does this take into account the account age when they got banned? You can clearly see that older instances are on the higher level. Mate really, this shit ain't easy, and jumping to publish with flawed methodology like this just comes off as a hit piece

Na, there is one dude who runs a bunch of AI comms and if you ever downvote a post they will ban you from 5 or 6 communities you have never interacted with.

They did a post a whole ago bragging about how to make a successful AI community he bans everyone who downvotes them, and even went and banned people from their communities who downvotes that post in an entirely unrelated community.

"But it's anti free speech to let people spew hate speech! You're just ban happy!"

If it's about transphobia, why does blahaj have so many fewer bans than you? They're not zionists either.

Yeah, It's a weak point anyway. While the graphs aren't detailed research, there's also no reason to believe dbzer0's perspective on the same network includes 8 times as many new users as LW for some reason. Or all the users in their communities have 8x worse karma for some external reasons. So we probably need further research.

This is skewed by the mods who just ban people from their dozens of AI slop communities for a couple downvotes for stuff that came through the All feed.

You don't see it unless you go to db0 or look for it.

You can also block communities if you don't like them.

cough mushroom cough

𝕿𝖔 𝖇𝖊 𝕱𝖆𝖎𝖗, it’s not doctored photos. It’s bad selects with cherry picked results.

It's a loaded question. It already has made assumptions about them being "prolific banners", without investigating what the bans actually are. It's like asking "what about fr0g@mstdn.social makes them downvote everything they see?", not that I know that you are, does that make sense?

Many admins/mod use alts to actually participate in the community because people get weird about a M or A next to your username.

Got it from Rimu

What’s to ‘account’ for banning people?

Do moderators reflect instances or communities?

If communities have high rates of bad-faith posters engaging to troll and harass them, is that something that needs to be held to ‘account'?

Reminder that Rimu hates leftists and anti-fascists more than racists and fascists.

Rimu has always been an opinionated person who injects his own feelings into the code to ban things he doesn't like.

I wonder how many 'bans' Rimu would have under his belt if we added the effects of multiple PieFed instances blacklisting communities for the word 'meme' and other hard-coded pettiness.

i don't see how that has bearing on what i said lol. i argued about not creating many new communities and not closing inactive communities. the last new community i heard of were the two or three replacements for feddit, and just the 41st top community (41st since I estimate the photon pager has 40 items per page by default, and i clicked the top of page 2) has not have posts in over a month, let alone mod actions.

Why do all of them have red squiggly lines for typos and only lemmy.dbzer0.com has been added to your dictionary?

I was surprised to find that dbzer0 has 290 communities.

I guess they have 290 communities which are federated to the instance where you're collecting these stats; according to dbzer0's front page they actually have 332 communities. (Also your screenshot shows 1337 communities on lemmy.ml but we actually have 4.74K, and 3919 for .world which actually has 13.1K.)

So, yes you banned a community moderated by multiple users because you personally felt slighted at being banned by one person.

Thanks for the explanation.

Holy mother of God that modlog. It's almost up to 80 pages in 12 months 🤯

That being said, people who downvote AI content can be quite overwhelming on this platform. Our community !imageai@sh.itjust.works was very vibrant in the early days but seems to have been slowly crushed by the neverending stream of downvotes. It's pretty discouraging when you go through the effort of creating and posting something and it gets randomly downvoted by anonymous accounts that seem to have been created just for the purpose of downvoting. But that's just kinda how it is I guess, I'm not sure if anything can be done about it.

Or perhaps I should be delighted that few bans are needed to achieve it.

This has been my experience on blahaj. Really happy with my home instance

I think they're defederated from poorly moderated instances and therefore don't need to ban as many users. Perhaps db0 doesn't defederate as often?

Ach wenn sich die d*utschen doch nur selbst dran halten würden...

You also have the term Staatsräson which is disgusting. You hsve a party tied to nazis that is not banned and you have one of the most facistic police punching people for opposing settler colonialism

You should get banned for you zionism yet here we are

I'm not the person you are replying to but you are entirely misunderstanding their point if you think the raw data itself, without analysis, is useful to draw conclusions from.

"Literal data" is used to justify racism (like when people bring up stats about crime rates).

I've only had a single moderator event since I made this account, well over a year ago except a featuring & unfeaturing of a post - huh, I didn't even know about that one!).

Then one day I wake up with like 10 bans in my notifications area, from what looks to be pro-AI communities. They did not merely claim to be acting on the safe side with a generic message, they specifically called me names as in an "Anti-AI Troll". Fwiw I consider myself as someone who desires a more nuanced view of how LLM usage might be appropriate in various real-world scenarios than your average Lemming. It's not my fault that corporations are deploying technology before it is ready and that the results are exceedingly untrustworthy right now - though ironically I was actually thinking about trying to find a legitimately more helpful and nuanced place that allows those kinds of discussions. Naive optimism is a biased method of thinking, but so too is pessimism, and if at all possible I prefer realism. And I don't want to exist purely inside of an echo chamber, you know?

Which is why I avoid Lemmy.ml communities and users, and apparently I need to start doing the same with dbzer0 ones as well. They aren't quite part of the Tankie Triad, but highly ironically, their admins allow mods that are instead somehow even more authoritarian than them? Like, I've never actually been banned by Lemmy.ml on any of my accounts (that I am aware of) - probably bc I do avoid those communities. While on the other hand dbzer0 (apparently) preemptively instance-banned me 4 times in a row last week - not even unbanning me in between them, just like stuttering or mashing the ban button EXTRA hard! Edit: this is starting to look more and more like a bug in PieFed's modlog display, as in displaying a blank community name or some such, thank you to dbzer0 for correcting me here. I will leave the graphic because it is funny and because it still applies to all the mods on dbzer0 who are enabled and protected by but not actually the same as the admin team.

Now I know what people mean when they said that being banned from Lemmy.ml was a badge of honor, good riddance! I do find it sad that others are still going to have to discover this on their own though, as dbzer0 converts to authoritarianism like Lemmy.ml (and AN seems on its way to becoming a second Hexbear). A year or so ago, I had true respect for dbzer0 - especially the head admin. I don't know what happened exactly but I don't like the result one bit:-(.

Anyway yeah, I can't fight back against these abusive words, and if an instance decides to ban me four times a day for the foreseeable future, there is nothing is can do about that either - it almost seems like people are weaponizing the modlog, or at least revealing that someone could do that if they wanted to. I guess it is up to each instance what level of abusiveness they want to allow to their users from these shitty modlog practices. My own "fight" (that I did not realize I was even in?) with them seems over, but this absolutely will affect MANY other users as well.

As the OP graphs show - these numbers reflect REAL events, with REAL stories behind them, affecting REAL people.

I am also sure DraconicNEO has at least an alt that has been active in the days ghe main account showed no activity and when the main is active the alt is inactive and it is for multiple day long periods.

Also the rhetoric and going overboard with personal attacks is the same too.

But yeah, they can be very petty. They banned me from their dead communities once, then when beefing with me, they unbanned me from their communities only to ban me immediately again. Like what was the point?

If a normal person were to call me a troll many times in a row, I would strongly consider blocking them. But I wonder if blocking these people would have any effect upon this spam?

I also find it the height of irony that we are all told by dbzer0 admins that we should strive hard to understand, since those mods must surely have their reasons for doing what they did, whereas if e.g. Lemmy.World were to block calls for outright murder of themselves personally, then all of a sudden moderation should no longer be allowed to moderate that violent rhetoric spammed at them. One rule for thee while another, different rule for me...

Also, I am somewhat anti-AI, but not to the extent of trolling anyone. Though do facts matter anymore - i.e. have these two mods been kicked off of dbzer0 for their false accusations, sent preemptively out to half the Threadiverse?

Then I am glad I mentioned it!:-)

This list is weird, aside from the length. They must be using a very greedy regexp for this many instances to have their names partially censored.

The text "buds" has been censored, all the instances using the TLD "university" have had "univer" removed, and the word "hangout" is also gone. "Shitpisscum" made it through, so it can't just be about slightly naughty words. Also annihilation.social is listed 3 times for some reason.

Are these slurs in a culture I'm not familiar with? Does piefed do this everywhere?

No! Piefed is unbiased and good and pure! Just ignore all the things Rimu said to ignore!

-5000 Piefed social credit!

I think the current methodology skews the data; consider that an instance federated with say, Hexbear, is probably going to have significantly more individual and community bans than an instance who only made 5-6 bans before recognizing the pattern and blocking the instance.

If the goal of this study is to see which places most aggressively moderate their content, you're actually getting somewhat of the reverse.

Also no iphone

SLRPNK, MULTIVERSE, and quokka are anarchist and have way fewer bans. dbzer0 is just really ban-happy for some reason

So when you finally achieve your anarchist utopia, what are you going to do when people you disagree with from a few communes over show up to your town square and start saying things you don't like?

Are you going to kick them out of your commune? What if they have more people than you, or they're more equipped?

How do anarchists plan to avoid this situation in the real world, in an anarchic system?

For that matter, how to anarchists intend to prosecute the Epsteins of the world, if there are no laws or enforcement agencies?

Yeah, without any evidence. All of the evidence that I'm a "troll" is pictures of Me saying people should vote against Trump.