Doctor Removed From Ontario Medical Association AGM for Refusing to Take Off Watermelon Pin

a month ago by acargitz to c/canada

'We want to make sure that everybody feels comfortable and safe,' an OMA executive is heard saying in audio of the incident
kent_eh 220 points a month ago

Since the 1980s, the watermelon has been an emblem of Palestinian solidarity,

I did not know that.

Is it common knowledge outside of political action circles?

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BJ_and_the_bear 62 points a month ago

Seems like the Streisand Effect is at play here. I never would have noticed a watermelon as a political symbol if they hadn't reacted this, i would just think it's a bit of whimsy. Now tons of people are reading about it

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motruck -2 points a month ago

Except the organization wasn't trying to stifle dissent. They were trying to avoid any poltics. How dare they. Politics is life.

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Schmoo 8 points a month ago

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not but banning politics broadly from an event and then being selective regarding what is or is not considered political is a way of stifling dissent. Would they have kicked someone out for wearing a US flag pin? How about an Israeli flag? The watermelon pin is not a flag, but it's meant to represent the Palestinian flag because of the matching colors, so what if someone wore a blue and white pin representing the Israeli flag?

Because anything could be considered political one way or another there is no way to ban politics from an event without imposing one's own political perspective on the attendees by selectively enforcing the ban.

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CileTheSane 3 points a month ago

I wasn't aware that "people have the right to exist" was political.

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motruck 0 points a month ago

Hahahahah. Then you sir, madam, whstever are fucking dumb. Just like guy in the article, what it was just frut. Stfu. And before you go ohh ohh. I support Palestine but I also support people not wanting to est shit and breath it.

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Atelopus-zeteki 40 points a month ago

Never heard of it before.

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Rat_in_a_hat 32 points a month ago

As many said, it's common knowledge if you've been generally knowledgeable about the colonialism from the 80s and/or if you've been informed because of the current escalation of the genocide.

Israel has had a "military rule" (administratively, judicially, and physically) over a good chunk of Palestinian lands since 1967 (other than what was colonized already). Under military rule law, even the Palestinian flag could put a child in administrative detention (prison with abuse) for an indeterminate amount of time (months to years).

To circumvent the oppressive rule, Palestinians took up the watermelon 🍉 which has the green, black, red, and white of the Palestinian flag.

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kent_eh 11 points a month ago

the watermelon 🍉 which has the green, black, red, and white of the Palestinian flag.

I wouldn't have made that connection either.

I doubt I could recognize the flags of hundreds of countries, theirs included.

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Rat_in_a_hat 7 points a month ago

Yeah, of course! And other countries share those same colours on their flag - it's not about the colours, but knowing about the oppression that's important; and it's never too late or wrong to learn and share!

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kent_eh 6 points a month ago

but knowing about the oppression that's important

I have been well aware of the oppression, the bullshit that the Israeli "settlers" are doing and much more.

But I didn't know that the watermelon had been adopted as a symbol relevant to the issue.

 

It's not realistic to expect that everyone can know every single detail of every situation.

I'm sure I know some details about certain situations that you haven't heard of, just the same as you probably know things that I have never been aware of.

None of that is any reason to treat others as hostile enemies simply due to lack of exposure to certain details (as some people in this thread seem to want to do).

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SpaceNoodle 25 points a month ago

No.

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monotremata 12 points a month ago

I would say it's well known among activists, and outside that community, it's only a little known. It's probably about on the level of sunflowers being used as a symbol for support of Ukraine. It's nowhere near as well-known as Winnie the Pooh being used as a symbol of protest against Xi Jinping.

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vagrancyand 11 points a month ago

Anyone with any knowledge of the middle east should be aware of it. The genocide has been going on for your entire lifetime. In fact there is no human alive today that was not alive during a period where zionists were not killing Palestinian children.

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AwesomeLowlander 8 points a month ago

I grew up in a country that's officially anti Israel since forever, and even I don't know that. Just because it may be common knowledge in your circles doesn't make it so worldwide.

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GimmeUrBelt -19 points a month ago

Downvoted for poor sentence work. Fix that mess and I'll give you an upvote.

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yannic 7 points a month ago

I'm trying to figure out what, at minimum, is missing, other than a single comma.

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GimmeUrBelt -5 points a month ago

Oh, it's not the punctuation so much as the, what, triple negative there in the last sentence.

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Witchfire 8 points a month ago

Yes, provided you have been following the genocide. It's on par with the kufiyeh

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kent_eh 26 points a month ago

It's on par with the kufiyeh

Another word I had to look up.

I recognize the object, but didn't know it's name.

 

Something being common knowledge for some people doesn't automatically mean it is for everyone.

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Miaou 4 points a month ago

This entire comment section is a purity test. As if there has never been any other major event or ongoing conflict to be aware of.

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Eldritch 1 point a month ago
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xthexder 8 points a month ago

I certainly didn't know that. I thought maybe they were a Saskatchewan Roughrider's Fan

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yannic 3 points a month ago

I've always hated wearing ribbons & pins for this very reason. There's no central authority and it leaves too much up to interpretation.

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SaveTheTuaHawk 1 point a month ago

or just a big fan of watermelon, it's refreshing.

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AGM 6 points a month ago

I'm actually kind of shocked how many people are saying they're unaware. Not judging, just surprised people haven't been exposed to it with everything going on over the last three years. Are you familiar with the yellow ribbon in association with Israel?

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Clearwater 12 points a month ago

Not aware of that one, either.

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tigeruppercut 9 points a month ago path: 0 23905533 23912095 23917266, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
AwesomeLowlander 3 points a month ago

The yellow ribbon that's literally used in dozens of countries worldwide, sometimes with more than a single meaning per country?

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AGM 2 points a month ago

I didn't ask about the yellow ribbon generally. I asked about it specifically in relation to Israel.

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Ithral 2 points a month ago

I only know of the yellow ribbon from marching cadence

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JigglySackles 2 points a month ago

I am one of those remaining very unaware of these symbols. I read about issues, I vote where I can, I donate when I can. I talk to others and defend Palestine and it's people. I have for over 20 years now. But I guess I don't run in the circles where this would be something I learned.

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kat_angstrom 5 points a month ago

I heard this once a few years ago, said "really?", and then promptly forgot about it until now, where this was briefly new news to me again. Is this like, a very regional specific thing, or am I just out of some very big loops?

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optimisticturtle 3 points a month ago

I've seen it in bios with Palestinian flags but never had it explained that the two were linked.

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Tollana1234567 1 point a month ago

watermelon

are watermelons grown in palestine? isnt it water intesive.

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definitemaybe 2 points a month ago

Explained in the article that it's because the Palestinian flag is illegal in Israel, so they use a watermelon with the same (or similar, I imagine?) colours.

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orioler25 -22 points a month ago

Where have you been for the past three years?

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titanicx 25 points a month ago

I've been following it for years, and I've never once seen this mentioned.

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orioler25 -22 points a month ago

I seriously do not believe you. You literally can't go to an event in support of Palestine without seeing these; I haven't once this entire time. Your "following" seems to just be a passing awareness.

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ReluctantMuskrat 8 points a month ago

I've been personally against what Israel has been doing with Palestine since long before Oct 7th. I don't personally know anyone that's Palestinian or even Jewish for that matter, living in a fairly rural area. It's possible I do have some acquaintances through professional services but simply don't know their heritage. Whatever the case I never knew anything about the "watermelon" thing until today. TIL

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titanicx 2 points a month ago

You can believe me or not. But based on the many comments and downvotes, that speaks volumes.

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SaveTheTuaHawk -1 points a month ago

Oh, I dunno, tuning out a tribal conflict that has been going on for 70 years and will never be resolved?

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orioler25 -2 points a month ago

Damn, we really got the chuds out today.

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panda_abyss 166 points a month ago

Ge asked whether wearing a Pride flag would be disallowed if it made a homophobic person uncomfortable.

“I don’t know if that’s the point of the discussion,” Farber said.

Isn’t it though?

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Godort 71 points a month ago

“I don’t know if that’s the point of the discussion,” Farber said.

It's not, but it is related to a far more important one.

The current discussion is if a watermelon pin is appropriate attire for a professional. The larger, more important discussion is "What causes are appropriate for someone to publicly support?", and further "Who gets to decide what causes are approved?"

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wyldrstallyns 19 points a month ago

Those are all born of the same unasked question: Why is admin so focused on continuing to undermine staff support of marginalized & vulnerable communities when that's exactly what hospitals are for!?

Oh, right. The shareholders. 🖕🏼

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msfroh 14 points a month ago

The shareholders of the Ontario Medical Association? I guess those would be the taxpayers of Ontario, maybe. Or the doctors perhaps.

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wyldrstallyns 6 points a month ago

My bad. Was a little stoned and got a little lost. 🙏🏼😅

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Yliaster 31 points a month ago

It is, they're just evil.

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OrteilGenou -1 points a month ago

An analogy about the discussion isn't the point of the discussion? No shit.

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Donkter 1 point a month ago
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snoons 64 points a month ago

Here is laid bare, the infiltration of Israeli misinformation into Canada.

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snoons 61 points a month ago

There must be a genocidal maniac on the board.

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zeroConnection 9 points a month ago
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i_love_FFT 17 points a month ago

I have an autistic friend who loves watermelon and has watermelon socks, watermelon drinking glasses, watermelon everything. He wears his watermelon socks at work, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had watermelon pins.

I would argue that the ban of watermelon imagery should be explained and it is definitely not clear for the general population.

I just learned about this symbolism today, and I'm usually more aware than the average person.

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zeroConnection 2 points a month ago
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theacharnian 16 points a month ago

Diagnosing people's jewishness based on last names is yucky. Don't do that. Farber's passive aggressive behaviour is enough of an indictment.

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zeroConnection 3 points a month ago
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FeddedUp 1 point a month ago
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zeroConnection 1 point a month ago
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MonkderVierte 7 points a month ago

But he is allowed to wear blue socks?

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ProudCanadianCitizen 5 points a month ago

Meanwhile in the Quebec news...

Wait, would this even be news in Quebec?

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zeroConnection 4 points a month ago
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HertzDentalBar 3 points a month ago

Now do lawyers.

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W98BSoD 3 points a month ago

Derth, derth to the IDF.

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Gammelfisch 2 points a month ago

Wear a shirt or socks with watermelons on it. Are Farber and Berman Jewish?

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motruck 2 points a month ago

Farber is definitely German.

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Formfiller 0 points a month ago

I guess Israel owns your country too

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ProudCanadianCitizen -2 points a month ago

The fact that he is making a very big issue over this pin is, I posit, sufficient evidence that the entire purpose of the pin was to make a political statement. I completely agree that an AGM of the OMA is NOT the place to make political statements. It is a medical conference, not a political convention. It goes to the root of the entire purpose behind the Hippocratic Oath - to serve equally without malice or prejudice.

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TheHonourablePierrePoilievre 1 point a month ago
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ProudCanadianCitizen 1 point a month ago

There is a very big difference between internal politics and outside politics. Of course an AGM is filled with the politics of the organization. However a political statement that has nothing to do with medicine has no place at an OMA AGM.

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motruck 0 points a month ago

Legit. All these people commenting like just cause morally you are right doesn't change the nonpolitical expectation. The more I read the article the more clearly it was this person was baiting them. That's fine way to make a statement but saying an organization is singling you out is a bit like being upset for getting hit in the face when you were the one that hit yourself.

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Mucki -2 points a month ago

Everybody shut up immediately and let watermelons be watermelons. It is NOT a symbol for anything else than watermelons. God dammit you freaks are polarizing and politisizing everything. (half serious, half fun /s)

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Wataba -18 points a month ago

I'd be uncomfortable if my physician was wearing a Star of David.

Either both are correct, or both are incorrect.

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orioler25 22 points a month ago
  1. Israel is not Judaism, even though its fascist state claims ownership over it (did you think the Star of David is the same thing as the Israeli flag?)

  2. A star of David does not have the same meaning to it as the watermelon pin. One is a religious symbol, the other is a symbol of solidarity with a nation and people who have been fighting against genocide for a century that is abstracted from the Palestinian flag exactly because of how complacent our settler-colonial system is with that genocide.

  3. I reckon you haven't had to deal with medical professionals as a member of a vulnerable group, because there is a very wide range of political opinions that these people will openly express with impunity when it is consistent with hegemonic values. To start actually firing these fucks when one is criticizing genocide is hardly a principled choice.

On top of all that, I'm fine with my doctors wearing fucking religious symbols because, guess what, they can simply not wear one and have their views effect their ability as physicians anyway. Restricting religious identity would be disproportionately enforced on vulnerable groups like Muslims again.

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Miaou -7 points a month ago

What a nice comment up until that last part. Part of what allowed Europe to go from a shithole into what it is now (with all the bumps along the road of course) was telling Christians to go fuck themselves. Making 50% of the population suffer to please a religious minority is never a good deal.

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orioler25 9 points a month ago

Oh, it was the "telling Christians to go fuck themselves" was it? Not the centuries of brutal imperialistic extraction, or did you mean the past century where they had a hiccup before continuing their brutal imperialistic extraction?

I don't suffer remotely from seeing peoples' religions, and I definitely do not benefit from letting the fucking genocidal Canadian state dictate what is and is not an appropriate religious symbol. Secularism isn't areligious in a culturally Christian state like Canada, it's just a rearticulation of settler-colonial notions of "objectivity" that conveniently privileges preexisting hegemonic values. Europeans worship capital the same way Canadians do.

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theacharnian 6 points a month ago

This isn't about the patient-physician relationship however. It's about a meeting of their professional association.

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1rre 2 points a month ago

I wouldn't be uncomfortable with either, you're here to be an expert on my body and as long as you're good at that idgaf about your opinions or beliefs... That said, I agree that consistency is better than inconsistency on these things

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orioler25 6 points a month ago

I definitely care if my doctor is some anti-abortion, patriarchal Christian who votes Conservative, but I hardly doubt wearing a cross or not would indicate their inability to fulfill their role as a physician because of those values.

Either way, a political criticism of genocide is not the same thing as a general religious symbol, so there's no consistency between these cases in the first place. Everything your doctor subscribes to is rooted in their politics, and a watermelon pin that shows solidarity with a nation currently victimized by genocide is like, a pretty bad starting point for this enforcement against political expression.

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1rre 0 points a month ago

I don't really care on that... If they either keep their professional life and work life separate, or it doesn't affect it, then that's fine by me.

If they're anti-abortion and they work in an abortion-adjacent field, they're not going to be that great of a doctor in that field. If they're anti-abortion and are a specialist in ligament surgery, then what does it matter to me? If I'm just here to get my knee fixed as soon as possible then their opinion doesn't come into it, even if their opinion is disgusting to me, and they have a keyring, sticker or pin, I'm not endorsing or supporting it by interacting with them, and while I'd usually support boycotting, it's just not in my interest in that situation.

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orioler25 1 point a month ago

It's honestly so bewildering to see so many people just openly admit to not understanding what is wrong with being anti-choice. It isn't because it's "disgusting" it's because it is harmful and it is harmful in a way that is specifically dependent on dehumanizing women. There isn't a person who is anti-choice who also has a fundamental respect for human life in dignity, these two things are incompatible.

So, yes, whether or not your doctor is capable of authentic empathy is actually pretty crucial to their ability to perform as a healthcare practitioner. Beyond just the reality that they're more likely to discount your pain and suffering due to this, they're also statistically more likely to actually intentionally harm groups of people they view as less than human (racism, sexism, transphobia, ableism, fatphobia). You seem to think the issue is that being anti-choice somehow indicates a skill-level for these tasks, that is an incredible lapse in empathy yourself there bud.

It is not an opinion to be anti-choice, it is a decision that shows your fundamental values and lack of moral grounding, which yes, makes you ill-qualified for any job where you have power over vulnerable people. Period.

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OrteilGenou 0 points a month ago

Which doctor though? The one you see every now and then to discuss your health trends and medication needs, or the one that's straddling you on a gurney giving you CPR while you're being rushed from an ambulance to an OR?

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orioler25 0 points a month ago

That'd be EMS.

If the argument is meant to be, "you wouldn't care if they were saving your life," then you don't seem to really understand why I wouldn't want a bigoted doctor that wants me genocided. This mentality is fundamently incompatible with empathy as it requires the selective dehumanization of particular groups for one's own material benefit; the suspension of empathy. Yes, I want my fucking paramedic to have a sense of empathy and I do believe that quality is crucial in order for them to perform their job effectively. Just like how I'd be endangered by a family physician neglecting my needs due to bigotry, I wouldn't even be a statistical anomaly if my paramedic treated me differently because of bigotry and I fucking died for no good reason.

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Miaou -1 points a month ago

The radicals would not accept to remove their religious gear, that's part of the point.

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orioler25 2 points a month ago

"Radicals" who? Hijabis? Orthodox Jewish men? They wouldn't be radical to refuse and it'd be difficult to write a law that applies to wearing a cross that wouldn't just overwhelmingly be enforced against groups whose religious symbols aren't optional.

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anon_8675309 1 point a month ago

I want my dr to wear gloves.

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sixpaque -35 points a month ago

I agree, no political statements of any kind.

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kieron115 21 points a month ago

The problem is that some people have wildly differing ideas on what counts as "just politics". As an example, the doctor brings up the question "would a pride flag be banned if it make a homophobic person uncomfortable?". To the homophobe, gender identity is "just politics". To the gay/trans/etc person it very much is not politics.

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howrar 3 points a month ago

Even suggesting certain treatment plans or choosing to provide everyone with medical care can be considered by some to be political.

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theacharnian 14 points a month ago

Hard disagree. Lower-p politics absolutely has its place in the AGM of a professional association. That's why we have professional associations.

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BCsven 8 points a month ago

I though physicians often carried the "do no harm" mantra and were onboard with showing sides against things like genocide, or female genital mutilation, etc

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AGM 12 points a month ago

The ethics of the caring professions may not have political intent in that they are not concerned with pursuit of power, but they cannot help becoming political in circumstances where politics and pursuit of power threaten people deserving of care.

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sixpaque 1 point a month ago

good point.

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phoenixz 7 points a month ago

Not so hard

Politics is just politics until your own life, or the lives of your loved ones, are at grave risk

Then, it's no longer a political statement, it's a requirement for survival

In his case, ask yourself the question:

Is it a political statement to say you're against genocide?

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But_my_mom_says_im_cool 0 points a month ago

If everyone was intelligent and reasonable there would be no problem. But people turn politics and humanitarian causes into shit slinging and racism, and we don’t have the time to sift it all.

I keep hearing the Palestinian anti genocide movement is against Israel and not Jews in general, but the truth is somewhere in the middle and it’s ugly. Lots of open anti semitism in those protests where I live.

Expel those people and we can all talk reasonably.

-an indigenous person with no dog in a fight across the planet

Before y’all get mad, look at all the colonialism and genocide your people committed and continue to do so, and maybe fix your own shit in your own country

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sixpaque 0 points a month ago

I myself believe that it was a political statement, and if left unchecked, there would be others doing the same, but for a different cause. I guess if the cause was close to home, you would feel compelled to express your feelings, 'and I get that,' but looping back to, let one do it, and then there were two. Now this comment is only my opinion, and I'm glad to say, I didn't have to make the call.

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canada
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