Now some players are level 2000+, rarely team work and I‘m dying when I spawn.
Every competitive multiplayer game in the world is ruined by sweat these days. You have to dedicate your entire life to the game just to not die immediately. Oh, you don't have every map completely memorized, including all spawn and bonus locations? To a point where you could play it blindfolded in single player? Filthy casual.
this is precisely why i gave up on multiplayer PvP games for the most part. the era of casual PvP pubs is long gone and now, if you don't have the "play for glory" mentality, you simply can't enjoy such games anymore. and even then, having that mentality already doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
on the flipside, i also find myself struggling with being interested in modern PvE/co-op games as well, especially since most of them adopt the 4-player format, pretty much necessitating having friends willing to play with you for a truly fun experience. the niche of big lobby PvE games is rarely tapped, unfortunately.
this is precisely why i gave up on multiplayer PvP games for the most part. the era of casual PvP pubs is long go
And the rampant cheating. Every single game that has more than a few players will have cheaters. Rootkit-as-a-service or not, there will still be cheaters.
Which of course is why we need kernel level anti cheat.
Because they stop all of those hacks!
...That are still rampant...
....despite the kernel level...
Wait a minute.
And there will still be sweats to be found
It died from matchmaking. Skill based MM helps a little but you still get people with different goals in the same game. Back when multiplayer was predominantly player hosted lobbies/servers, it was easy enough to find others that want to play the same way you do. And the same player could easily hop between servers depending on current mood. Now you get matched with some randoms and have to just deal with it.
On the other hand, the point of ranking and matchmaking is to match you with players of similar skill. When working optimally, you'll end up with the appropriate ranking, play with players of the same skill, and (in 1v1/1 team vs 1 team games) win 50% of the time.
Some people whine a lot about the idea of losing 50% of the games you play, but if you actually enjoy the game and ignore the rank you have, it's a great deal.
Well, either modern matchmaking algorithms are absolute dogshit at doing this, or there just aren't enough low-skill players out there to be matched with. Because if you're just a casual player, you won't be losing 50% of games, you'll be losing 100% of games. Even at the lowest of the lowest tiers, you'll still be losing quickly and often if you don't put sweat into it.
I suspect it's because games are driving away casual players like this that they don't have enough for matchmaking. Every player at the casual tier either quickly gives up in frustration and leaves, or stays and becomes a sweatlord themselves, continually leaving the casual tier mostly empty, which forces casual players to be matched up with higher-tier players just to find a match at all.
And that's not even getting into 'smurfing' and cheating/hacking.
Well, either modern matchmaking algorithms are absolute dogshit at doing this, or there just aren't enough low-skill players out there to be matched with. Because if you're just a casual player, you won't be losing 50% of games, you'll be losing 100% of games. Even at the lowest of the lowest tiers, you'll still be losing quickly and often if you don't put sweat into it.
It’s mathematically not possible to maintain a 50% win rate across any group of players unless everyone has exactly the same skill level. The proof is complicated but the idea works like this:
So there you have it. In practice, matchmaking systems need to compromise on the skill they match people with if they can’t find enough players of the appropriate skill level. This results in a wider range of skill levels ending up in the same game when not many players are online. This can result in even more players ending up above or below 50% win rate, depending on where they stand skill wise.
I've seen some level 3000+ players as far back as months ago, but I think they glitched/exploited that level.
The highest legit levels I have seen are about 500 - 650 or so, 500 is when their icon turns gold.
It's a real slog at times, but I will sometimes just do the weekly challenges and stop. Timed challenges really make the game feel like a chore.
The game feels really unbalanced as well, so many rounds it's one team completely stomping the other and it's not even close. Often 900 tickets to 0.
My friends and I had an evening like that as well, 3 times our team won by holding all the objectives and the game ended early. That's no fun.
Side note, games like BF6 that cannot run in Linux are also what keep me from migrating to a Linux distro. I'd be off Windows in a second if all games ran on it no issues.
Side note, games like BF6 that cannot run in Linux are also what keep me from migrating to a Linux distro. I'd be off Windows in a second if all games ran on it no issues.
For those curious about it: People are working on it (of course Valve has vested interest in this). Unfortunately Corposcum such as Ubisoft, EA or Krafton aren't interested unless they get complete system control for their overreaching anticheats, and hell freezes over before Linux provides kernel modules for this stuff. Even if every gaming distro would bring DKMS (Dynamic Kernel Module System), that in turn basically breaks Secure Boot (Secure Boot is a Microsoft system - not Linux' fault). Also the support by Linux devs and distro maintainers would literally be a negative number. Kernel-level anticheat is correctly considered malware.
I think Valve was experimenting with Microkernels and Virtualization or sth… but that's a long way to go. And those other big corpos will only ever give a fuck once their Investors start seeing Linux as a truly exploitable market.
The game feels really unbalanced as well, so many rounds it's one team completely stomping the other and it's not even close. Often 900 tickets to 0.
It's a miracle how a multi-billion dollar company can consistently fumble matchmaking this badly.
How does DKMS and such break secure boot? If you want to load (custom) kernel modules, just generate a key pair, sign the module yourself, import your MOK into your UEFI (once, assuming you use the same key for all your modules and also keep a backup of your reinstall your system) and secure boot will let you do that.
I’m running current NVIDIA drivers on Linux and that’s basically the setup to use them- and since that is already set up, i’d not even need to to anything specific to get it working for other things.
Note: I do not endorse kernel level anti cheat and would never load such a module, but the infrastructure for it is already there and can be used with secure boot…
How does DKMS and such break secure boot? If you want to load (custom) kernel modules, just generate a key pair, sign the module yourself, import your MOK into your UEFI (once, assuming you use the same key for all your modules and also keep a backup of your reinstall your system) and secure boot will let you do that.
You do realise 99% of people have no clue what the hell you just said and at least 80% will rather stay with the devil they know (Windows) than taking a course in both Linux System Administration + UEFI / Secure Boot configuration? I'm generally assuming a common user, not a dev with loads of free time. What you describe isn't just hard and takes a lot of knowledge to fully understand, it's potentially hazardous on the same level of e.g. editing the fstab or crypttab manually, something a user without deep system knowledge shouldn't have to do either as it could cause an unbootable state.
I stand by my point, DKMS breaks Secure Boot (as it requires highly technical user intervention on every single update to make the computer boot again, and very deep knowledge to fix it if something goes wrong).
I would guess it would break it in that people holding out on switching until every game they play is as simple to run in Linux as they are in Windows would probably consider that a deal breaking amount if work compared to staying on Windows.
I fell for stuff like this for a while and now I consequently delete every game that tries to pull this shit with me. And I lost the joy in multiplayer games to be honest. I will never match the dedication of some people. And if this means I have no chance to actually enjoy it, I don't want to bother.
It got to be a really well made game for multiplayer with a good community (and if necessary good moderation) and proper matchmaking to work. There aren't a lot of those out there, especially not major titles. Those either use the for-profit matchmaking algorithm (putting you in games where you specifically encounter players with purchaseable items your ad profile says you may be convinced to buy, even if it's less balanced - Fortnite uses this for example), have absolutely zero working moderation (literally every Counter-Strike) or are completely overrun with bots, cheaters and scammers (e.g. PUBG).
Beyond All Reason comes to mind, that's genuinely a joy playing. Probably due to its FOSS nature and small but fine community. And the ELO for balancing is visible by everyone.
Nothing beats a LAN Party with friends though. That's what Multiplayer was made for. 🥰
Yeah, I think growing up as probably the first generation that went to LAN parties on a regular basis doesn't really help enjoying modern multiplayer very much.
I've played a couple matches but it hadn't clicked for me yet in the same way that TA or SupCom have.
Not the fault of the game, I still just spend most of my time looking at the build icons wondering what everything does.
Anyway, nice to hear there's some good game in there once you get past the learning curve (same as any RTS, really).
Ive been playing fortnite for a while now, the only thing you really buy are all cosmetic, and I see plenty of people using the ftp skins. There's a shop that refreshes daily for new cosmetics, but it's universal, not targeted, and if you're seeing people with stuff in the shop, it's probably because they just bought it themselves. so unless I'm missing something the fortnite comment isn't true.
And yes I know, defending epic is not a very popular position lol, there's definitely enough to criticize already
I've got no time for grinding at my age. Single player game, some cheat engine, and skip grinding when it gets boring.
Depending on the game, this is why I install balance breaking mods or just use cheats. I play games to get away from grindy bullshit, I don't need that in my games.
I'm with you there for games that take 100s of hours.
If it's sub 20 hrs I'll install QoL or time saving mods only.
Snow runner was so much fun, until it wasn't. Somehow, they even made just exploring a slog. The mechanic was literally "deep mud everywhere." Just give me the first map 10 different times and we're good. A new town to explore.
I don't enjoy games anymore because I have so little time and almost all the games I enjoy (apart from Space Cadet ofc) take up so much time that I just don't bother. Don't want to start another game of Medieval Total War 2 or Civ 4 if I have time to only play a few turns. And I know I'll be craving to play more the whole day
This is why, with rare exception, I've stopped playing open world games.
I either quit before I finish or I stick it out and end up being sick of it by the time I'm done.
I haven't stopped playing them but I have stopped finishing them.
I play until I feel I get my "moneys worth" then I uninstall? Which is a lot easier if you wait for a deal...
I always procrastinate on playing and when I do, I wonder why this is so much fun.
It looks so strange when I see people playing a lot of one game and what they do seems to be mastering mechanics. Everything is a stat to them, you can optimize builds etc.
It just seems like a job
They log off from their real job where they optimize something or other and hop onto a game where they optimize something else and coordinate a team etc.
It's so weird to me.
I've got 2 1/2 big sheds full of kegs and i need more kegs dammit
Me playing Pokemon: All of my Pokemon have to be kept at the same level.
Me 3 weeks later: I never want to look at this game again
Tried picking up a pokemon game after a few years of not touching one. I realize that it is often a kids first pokemon game so they must be taught how the game works from the ground up but it would be really nice if there was a "I've been playing Pokémon for 30 years I know what a fucking pokeball is" button.
There was one pokemon game on the DS that I tried playing a while ago, where the professor asks of you're familiar with pokemon already. And then proceeds to give you the whole spiel regardless.
What having an incurable competitionist mentality does to a MF. I can't stop myself from needing to 100% any game I play, and so many have at least a few things that are just too grindy or boring to complete so it ends like this instead.
I have that same mental disorder but I kind of reframed it and stopped burning out as much as I used to. It's not that I enjoy the grind, but multitasking, hanging with friends, and keeping short term goals make it more fun. I'm getting a lot more 100%s and chronicle the min/max I use to help others, too.
This is how I am with pretty much any mmo games.
I'll get through the normal level up/equipment upgrades and then to get any of the better items you have to grind for specific items that have like a fuckin 1 in 10,000 drop rate from a boss that takes a full raid party to beat and takes over an hour to finish. Oh and you need like 50 of said item and you can only run the dungeon on the 3rd Sunday of the month or some shit like that.
And this is pretty much the standard for mmo games
Lol yeah, I'm getting back into classic wow raiding right now, and I really don't have the stomach for farming so I'm constantly broke and can't afford all the 20 consumables you need to stay on top of shit, and that's not even bringing in the whole world buff thing into it. It's just ridiculous sometimes, but getting those sweet drops hits like crack, especially when you're rolling against 8 other people lol.
I really wish an mmo game existed where you could just design your character at max level if you wanted to and just crush shit though. Like remove all the grinding and just have fun quests and dungeons, and you can raid more than once a week lol.
Yeah I think there would have to still be to keep players coming back. I'll have to check this one out.
I've had to specifically put a hard stop on my usual thought process while playing games, in an effort to get back to how I played as a kid. If I catch myself strategizing too much to the point where I'm not even playing anymore, and am just going through the motions I already planned out, I purposefully make myself do something completely against the plan just to put myself in the kinds of situations I'd be in as a dumb kid who did the wrong thing, since that was the last time I had real fun playing games. It doesn't always work, but I do have more fun than I did earlier in my adult life.
This has really worked pretty well for me. I have to stop myself from researching optimal builds and strategies when I'm learning a game because it always accelerates the path to no longer enjoying the game.
The most fun I have is when I approach it the way I would've as a kid: what looks cool?
Turns out games are a lot more fun when you're discovering everything yourself and learning as you go!
Yup, and it's more fun when you let yourself have challenges. Sure, it's easier and more efficient to stealth behind an enemy and stab them in the back, but it's more exciting to go in swinging, even if you're only wearing leather armor and haven't trained your sword skill very much!
Some of the most fun is discovering the new setting and art models and special effects for the first time.
Seeing the majestic six-legged Porco-Taur charging at you through the sun-drenched savannah of King Arthur's Burg in the Realm of WizardTopia is fun the first time it happens. And then you figure out the monster's pattern of attack, get to know the burrow by the lake where it spawns, and can knock one of these creatures down with a few button clicks. So it's not fun anymore.
Pick up a new game with a new style of monster and a new attack pattern that employes different abilities, and now it's fresh and exciting again.
The new attack pattern? You guessed it.
Yet another delayed attack. Hold.... Hold... Hollllld... Flinch ....Swing stupid fast
Ooooo new game +
Its almost like a game that requires or significantly involves regular monotonous grinding is ... like, definitionally, a poorly designed game.
You can have a regular, repeated activity or loop.
But if that loop itself is boring, rote... the game has failed at actually being engaging, thus rewarding.
The loop itself should be what offers the potential for reward, and that reward should be experiential, not... systemitized sequential progression.
This also extends to:
You don't need to get to a Steam "backlog" just because it is there. Just play games you enjoy and ignore the rest.
If you're partway through a game and it doesn't feel fun anymore then just abandon it.
If an old game is going to be fun to replay, then there's no rule to say you have to pick something new. Play the old game for the thousandth time and enjoy. I'm playing Ballionaire like a maniac while my wife judges me for continuing to ignore Expedition 33.
If you enjoy doing dumb shit in a game then it doesn't matter what the optimal play is, just do the dumb shit you enjoy. We all loved finding ways to kill sims.
or modify it to your style of play.
I use cheats all the fuckin time lol
Every MMO ever honestly. It's one of the cheapest ways to create content - a mindless time sink.
Single-player games doing this are much more rare, but I bet there are some examples...
Some of the dark souls games have some pretty grindy stuff, like the Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne that I never did. But that was optional (unless you wanted the achievement).
Yeah. Achievements often are grindy.
Ugh this was death stranding for me. I’m 40, and it felt more like work than a game. Beautiful game, but unfortunately couldn’t finish it
I held off buying it but I wanted to give it a go for several reasons at one point.
It was cheap now so I tried it. So many unexplained components (and I'm not the hand holding playstyle guy) but I simply didn't know the consequences of many things. If I lose a package what will happen? Do I have to track it immediately? Will it be gone? Too many what ifs for me.
Anyhow when I then lost everything I was carrying in a river I snapped and deleted it.
Yes, work
I sunk 3 years and over 1000 hours into Warframe, then I took a vacation to Africa where I couldn't play for two weeks. When I got back I was like "why am I even playing this game? Wonder if anybody wants to play something else" then proceeded to have a few years of great multiplayer games with my dudes.
It's Divinity Original Sins 2 for me. Some side quests are interesting but it is getting cumbersome and a chore for me because getting to some of those side quests are awkward, like I have to teleport my entire team across large crevasses one by one. I think I will just go straight to finishing the main quests and my companions'. I have a backlog of games I need to clear up myself!
thats RS for you, the grindiest game out there. they made it grindier now, enough to cause people to have a mental breakdown and leave the game.
Im feeling this trying to find a crow sourced on BL4. Why the fuck would you ever make a drop rate so low that players need to invest hours if not days grinding for it? Worse, a DEDICATED drop that only comes from one source, locking you into the exact same fight over and over again?
I have extremely low tolerance on mindless grind. If I have to repeat x thing y times to have a chance at getting z, I am not gonna bother. I don't mind grind if it evolves - new mechanics, new variables, new tools, all that stuff. But just grind? Fuck off.
I like playing Warframe. It's kinda grindy, so I don't have much and mostly play doing what I like and collecting stuff during it. Once decided to actually get certain armor as chances were high, so it shouldn't take long.
It didn't. I think it took 6h. Got fed up with the game for half a year after that anyway. Worst part of it was that feeling of achievement was minimal compared to tiredeness I felt.
Maybe capitalism has broken your idea of what success and 'doing' is, and you need some fucking therapy.
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When battlefield 6 came out, the hour or two I could afford went a long way: we were in the trenches together figuring it out and having fun.
Now some players are level 2000+, rarely team work and I‘m dying when I spawn. Now it takes more than it gives.
On the plus side, that was the last game stopping me migrating to bazzite
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