Transcript:
Two panel meme.
Top panel: Woman in the front seat of a car screaming at a child in the rear seat. She's saying "Why can't you just shutdown?"
Bottom panel: A child screaming "A stop job is running for Session c2 of user ... (1:30 / no limit)"
That's not really systemd's fault though. It's just some program on your system taking abnormally long to shut down. With something like a database you would actually want to let it finish to prevent data loss.
The weak must perish.
I prefer to think of it as a Data Jubilee.
This happens, too. A burst of local brownouts killed an OPNsense firewall of mine once. (The hardware was fine. The data got wrecked.) The firewall would boot, or almost finish booting, and then another brownout would hit. After the third or fourth cycle, the poor thing was toast.
I should thank the power company for free resilience testing.
Did you learn your lesson and get a UPS?
I did. All the important things have time to gracefully shutdown now. (Except my for my rack of 4 DL360's, which need something a little more robust than a Walmart UPS. They aren't critical and only exist to handle weird one-off projects anyway.)
Not sure about that. When I first installed Gentoo with OpenRC everything went fine, just the boot/shutdown times were a bit slower than with SystemD's when it didn't do this shenanigans. But when I started reading about the SystemD hype I decided to try it and it did this at random - and got fed up so went back to OpenRC and never experienced this again. Maybe a misconfiguration on my part or something but I didn't do something out of what the manual said about how to set it up.
That's not really systemd's fault though.
Oh, but it is. Upstart and sysV will both assassinate everything after a point. This bullshit is entirely new, either by Systemd sucking, or Systemd allowing this shit (thus, sucking), where neither thing happened beforehand.
I admit I rage when it's starting or stopping and can't win for all the losing -- especially because "startup time" was the the main (unfounded) feature on the banner they waved around.
I work with sysV and Systemd and shut each down on a regular basis, via tooling, for stuff like patching, so it's often a horse-race to offline. The difference is often negligible, for new machines or established boxes with apps, and the main difference is sometimes Systemd fails its YOU HAD ONE job from time to intermittent time.
I work in a team where Unix and Linux is ~15 very experienced admins, so don't fret over the skills and experience question or the scale question.
I don't know, I don't want them to be assassinated to be honest. If an app has something to do before finish, it's beter it does it. If it's some kind of bullshit, the app sucks and I don't use it anymore.
If it was really the program's fault, why doesn't it happen when I switch to sysvinit? (or maybe openrc, I haven't tried that one)
Not onl that but they usually remove the init script as well, so unless you go for archives you no longer have a sane mechanism for starting and stopping the service.
Fortunately Debian has a orphaned-init-scripts package that can help alleviate that pain, as you can also use those scripts (or even better, openrc scripts) as skeletons to replace systemd service units.
Because you didn't bother fixing the underlying issue but got lucky.
Or these other inits are more brutal in their shutdown procedure, but I doubt that.
What "underlying issue"? The one in systemd?
Everything works correctly (starting, shutting down under openrc / under sysvinit / manually / with killall)... except specifically systemd.
What I would call out systemd for is that it can make it difficult to know precisely what thing it isn't happy with. Abstracting a mishbehaving process to "user session" when it could call out the offending process by name.
Similarly, when it's trying to decide the network is 'online', and by all appearances the network interface was configured, but systemd isn't so sure, sometimes it's hard to tell why.
A lot of the bad experience with Windows similarly could be attributed to something workable, but the design obfuscates the underlying behavior. Systemd has been bringing some of that sentiment over, and that can be more aggravating.
Ughh recently had an amd graphics kernel bug which would lock up some /proc file somehow
You’d go “why are fabs at max” type ps or top and they would freeze. System monitor would freeze.
“Okay, I’ll just reboot, this is fucked”, and systemd is just there:
Luckily it’s patched now. Hopefully those hard reboots didn’t damage anything.
That is good to know, because I do not want to replace a 2tb ssd.
Apart from static discharge, or a broken power supply, I don't think there's anything your computer could do to the SSD to actually break it. Worst case you just need to reformat it.
(I guess if it writes to it constantly it could wear out, but that's different than a hard shutdown)
Some computer components don't protect against voltage loss and some OS components aren't tolerant to sudden shutdown but we're 99% the way there. Any of the two which don't have protection at this point are complete garbage.
Why? You can bypass it immediately if it's a one-off, or go update the unit configuration to have a short timeout if it's a regular error.
More likely though, it's something that should actually be fixed, like a misconfigured fstab. Systemd is rarely the problem here.
If you hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete 7 times in 2 seconds it will skip immediately
I can't tell if you're fucking with us or not. 😒
Unless the culprit is that one process permanently stuck in uninterruptible disk sleep, in which case the timer would just perpetually go up, and pressing 7x Ctrl-Alt-Del as you mentioned will simply shut down systemd and the kernel itself will start complaining (faulty hardware can cause this)
I haven't gotten a startup wait in over 7 years but if I got it now I'd be pretty miffed.
The good old 'network-online' can just be a ton of fun. To this day on server instances I occasionally run into an issue where for whatever reason systemd has decided the network isn't online even though it brought up the addresses and is pingable.
Idk if this is a hot take but „no limit“ should straight up not exist. Just set a limit and blow the whole PC up when it takes too long.
I'm ngl if I see this shit, I just hard power-cycle the machine. I ain't got time for that.
I've never see it, who sets it? I only have two processes that are like it and blth wait for 1:30
Yup, as happened during my most recent linux suicide, dracut just waits infinitely for a device to mount (tho it drops into a emerg shell after like 3 mins or so).
The only time I see it is to do with mounting my NAS at boot and unmounting it on a shutdown.
Due to what I call some quirks (but what other people call "good, sane, excellent design decisions"), you can set a hard timeout… that can be flatly ignored by systemd for various reasons that might or might not be obvious. In that case it will happily show you <current timer> / <timeout>, then move to <current timer> / <timeout * 2>, and so on.
Because that, for some reasons, makes a lot of sense to some people that are not me.
systemd
Lennart Poettering deserves all the hate he gets and then some...
Just set the limit to something sane like 2³² seconds!
Finger hovering over power button
“I’m giving you one last chance”
On Windows I get a "some apps are preventing shutdown....". With a list of apps. The app that is stopping shutdown? It's called "shutting down". Wtf
I hope my installation of Mint doesn't start acting up, because I don't want to learn whatever it is half y'all are talking about.
I just want it to work, and so far it has.
The only problem I've had is nvidia driver updates breaking Blender. So, I need to restore and tell update to ignore that one.
So I should wish for my computer to start acting up so I can have an educational experience attempting to fix it? No thanks, there's less frustrating ways to learn.
Also, if you're trying to go for a greentext-style formatting, put two spaces at the end of your first line.
I'm still using shutdown -h now, even though the -h flag has been pointless for, what, 20 years?
edit: looks like sysvinit's shutdown still defaults to single-user mode, so I guess that muscle memory will still be useful if I ever use a Devuan or antiX box.
Sometimes this just happens with systemd, it wants to manage every thing as a session and sometimes things running in the session don't exit like systemd expects.
Also, sometimes logging into a headless ssh session takes quite a while, because systemd is not super responsive to setting up the user session and ssh blocks waiting for that to happen.
I've been using mint for years without learning a single thing about terminal command stuff. It just works. Granted I'm a pretty light user. Light gaming, high seas stuff.
mine has started acting up quite badly,
-from the start the internet has cut off randomly, likely due to driver issues or hardwareissue. Fixed only by complete restart. There seems to be no pattern, only that machine spirit gets angry if i use internet too much or sometimes just because i woke it up.
-Sometimes when i start the pc it takes really long time to boot and just stays in black screen,
-there are always kind of worrying error messages on startup and shutdown, something about rdseed being broken, something about data being lost, something about a thing hogging the processor and maybe switch to hq_unbound,
-sometimes the pc just refuses to shutdown when shutdown and everything else goes offline but fans keep running.
All of this has just slowly accumulated overtime, without me doing anything that should have caused it.
Yet funnily enough, i'm STILL very much more satisfied than with windows that didnt have that much immidiate issues.
Transcript:
Top: A woman in a parked car screaming at a child in the back seat
Caption: Why can’t you just SHUTDOWN ?
Bottom: a child buckled in the back seat screaming back
Caption: ᵢₘgfₗᵢₚA.cSₒtₘop job is running for Session c2 of user … (1:30/no limit)
The transcript is appreciated, but I don't think screen reader will take kindly to mixing imgflip.com and A stop job is running.
It was meant to be a joke
Hold on I'll add a transcript to the body.
This actually got me to go track down the systemd service that has been responsible for being unresponsive and causing a 90-second shutdown delay way more often than it should.
In my case it's the MPRIS service that's supposed to provide playback control on media players and related software.
... and so now it's disabled to see what, if anything, breaks without it. So far, none of the media apps I regularly use seem to be affected (browsers, a computer emulator, DOSBox, VLC).
It looks to be Bluetooth-associated based on the package it's installed with, and I don't need Bluetooth 99.9%+ of the time, so it might be a while, if ever, before I notice anything wrong.
systemd-analyze ?
"Ask systemd what's wrong with systemd" feels like "ask Grok what is bad about child sexual abuse" lol.
What about it? I admit that I don't know a great deal about systemd and all its subcommands - it took me a while to figure out how to disable that service properly, for example - but the manual seems to suggest that systemd-analyze is for startup processes, not shutdown.
I'll gladly take pointers on how to get it to say why a particular service hung on shutdown.
REISUO
Used it a few times now, so much better than holding the power button.
For users that are not aware: alt+print screen then one at a time with a few seconds inbetween press the keys above, switch the O for a B to reboot instead of shutting down
This sounds a lot more difficult than just holding the power button for a few seconds. How is it better?
(Though I guess it could be beneficial for some laptops that don't have a traditional power button.)
REISUB basically does the same thing but slightly more gracefully. It will still reboot through basically any lockup (I have yet to encounter one it didn't work on), but it gives your machine the chance to settle some things before cutting the power.
If a Linux machine locks up or freezes completely, use REISUB to restart it more gently than pushing the Power Button.
Hold down Alt and the SysReq (Print Screen) keys, and then type R E I S U B, with 2-3 second delays between the key presses to give the commands a better chance to complete.
R: Switch the keyboard from raw mode to XLATE mode
E: Send the SIGTERM signal to all processes except init
I: Send the SIGKILL signal to all processes except init
S: Sync all mounted filesystems
U: Remount all mounted filesystems in read-only mode
B: Immediately reboot the system, without unmounting partitions or syncing
I suppose if you wanted to be extra quick and liked living dangerously you could just do alt + sysrq + R + B (I'm assuming switching the keyboard mode is necessary for getting the other commands to work during a complete lockup, but I could be wrong, you might only need B). But I wouldn't recommend it, REISUB is plenty fast for me.
There are other commands too, like alt + sysrq + F to summon the OOM killer.
Lastly, and perhaps most critically, it also feels way cooler than just holding a single button. Comme ça:
Recently I had to reboot to fix a zombie process (caused by a GPU crash, not sure if it was hardware or the driver). When shutting down systemd waited 2 minutes for all process to be killed and then another 2 minutes for the specific zombie process.
What happened when you called kill?
Absolutely nothing. kill -9, SIGCHLD to the parent which was pid 1, relogged my graphical session. After I rebooted I had the thought that I should have tried removing and reinserting the amdgpu module to avoid a reboot. I couldn't start new mpv processes so shit was pretty fucked lol.
Dang. That's a good one.
I am lucky enough to not have had any problems with calling a shutdown... just now with a problem I recently learned where my desktop treats shutdown as reboot. Definitely gotta look into that.
I think I figured out my issue, literally a few minutes ago. I've never really dealt with ethernet, so I just learned my bios might have some sort of "wake up on lan" setting enabled that stops me from fully shutting down.
Why would I ever want something like that, though?
Why would I ever want something like that, though?
I should look into wake on lan for my media center so I wouldn't have to run downstairs to the living room to turn it on if I want to browse my photo/video collection.
I prefer keeping it off when it's not in use.
Wouldn't it be more efficient in that case to have some sort of remote* suspend+resume? Saves you the hassle of the bootup and shutdown procedure, when suspend saves most of the relevant energy.
[*] where "remote" can be "hook a tripwire from your room to the keyboard", at least for the wakeup
I miss Ctrl-Alt-Backspace
One of the reasons i like the new atomic/immutable distros is you can just power cycle with little worry of bricking your system, even if a system update is running.
I have less issues with that than i do shit getting slow at startup. I hunted down a PAM problem (that I didn't even configure) for a couple of days of my spare time. 5 minutes startup, i could feel my hail/nails growing between power on and Graphical.
That can hit any time, not just in shutdown. At bootup, when suspending, etc. This message and the wait time is so bad. Systemd basically implemented Windows Update waitouts on Linux! It's incredible!
Switching from systemd to sysvinit solved that pretty nicely.
You didn't solve the problem. You only ignored it. Systemd does exactly what it's instructed to do. If a program takes longer it waits if it's instructed to do so. It's well defined and predictable. Much better than a random assortment of bash scripts. And it's incredibly customizable. If the defaults don't fit you, you can easily override them without touching the main unit itself.
Oh no, I solved the problem: I uninstalled systemd. It's systemd who is ignoring things, such as the longstanding history of Unix and Linux (research what happened between systemd and screen, tmux, dtach).
Oh but it's not just stopping things, starting things is subject to the same issue also:
A start job is running for "wait for network to be available"
(attached to a network interface that is not necessarily connected at bootup)
Systemd is just special.
Don't mask or disable the systemd service.
Edit /etc/netplan/01-netcfg.yaml and add optional: true to any devices that may not always be available.
That's absolutely systemd's fault. In any Linux system the only network interface that can (more or less) always trusted to be available and complete a full initialization sequence is lo Absolutely nothing else.
(The worse if you happen to have a WiFi that autoconnects but does it across the same SSID to different endpoints, but that one is wpa_supplicant's fault if I'm not mistaken. Systemd just makes it worse)
Ubuntu 17
systemd still does not solve it
Well I guess that tells you everything.
@lemmy.world
Hint: :q!
Community rules (click to expand)
sudo in Windows.We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
go to feed...
@lemmy.world
Hint: :q!
Community rules (click to expand)
sudo in Windows.We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
go to feed...
If anything ever makes me leave systemd. It'll be this.
save