Because it's not actually about the pronouns. These people aren't actually angry about pronouns.
They're angry about trans and non-binary people. They're angry that people are growing to accept these people, who they do not think should be accepted. They are angry that a group they don't think is normal, is being accepted as normal.
I don't think it's even about that, they're angry because the want to be angry. The why doesn't matter, if the current right wing outrage du-jour had been... I dunno, left handed people rather than trans people, you'd see all the same people working themselves into a screaming tantrum if a game or movie had a left handed person in it.
Oh no, it's very much hatred. The same hatred they had for black or gay people.
Who the hell are you to say that I hate black and gay people? You're overgeneralizing a group, how much different are you in this case? Stop with that man, this is why we can't have actual debates.
For sure. And when there’s not enough people focused on trans people they’ll shift their focus to some other marginalized group to harass.
These limp dicked losers have literally nothing better to do but jerk each other off in their seedy racist forums and message boards.
And the "replaced white people". And the female leaders. If someone wants a taste, go through the Steam forums for the game. It's a complete deranged mess.
Steam forums are the absolute bottom of the barrel for game discussion, maybe tied with 4chan.
I don't know what the point of your comment is.
Trans and non-binary people are becoming more accepted as normal over time. The people screaming about pronouns don't actually care about pronouns, they oppose that gradually growing acceptance.
It's not "about trans and non-binary people," it's about the injection of identity politics into video games. The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology.
The existence of trans and nonbinary people is not an injection of identity politics into video games. The fact that they exist and a video game is acknowledging their existence is not political.
Wow 2+2 is 4 in this video game??? Didn’t know it’s going so WOKE
Pronouns, gender, genitals, etc. in player-character customization are just yet another option for someone to tailor their gameplay to whatever experience they want.
The only identity politics comes from the people politicizing it.
did a bot write this? what are you even trying to say?
Are you one of those people that thinks anything that's not straight cis white is "identify politics"? That anything that isn't your world view is "political"? If so, please go fuck yourself. If not, I have no idea what you're on about.
Not a bot; just a bigot. If you scroll to the very bottom, a good 30% of the total comments are this guy digging a hole trying to prove it's "woke" society that's the problem and not him.
Yeah, having that "he/she/they" toggle and calling sex "body type 1 and 2" instead of male/female sure is political. You know when it became political? When people saw them and went "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" because they're bigoted dumbfucks.
,"Identity politics" in this case meaning "trans and non-binary people exist and are trans or non-binary respectively".
The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology
Bullcrap. It shows nothing of the sort. It shows nothing more than that NexusMods doesn't feel like hosting assholes.
They need to force their views on others. If anyone believes what they believe, then they are suddenly just like everyone else instead of the bigot they know they are deep down
They aren’t really forcing their views on anyone though, they’re just jacking themselves off. No nonconforming person is going to download this and inflict it on themselves, and they have no reason to use it themselves unless they’re just really closeted and lack the will to not express their own nonconformity. It can literally only exist to rile people up who sought out the mod specifically, which includes only them.
If they weren’t trying to force their views on others they’d just make their character a guy and move on. They go through the trouble of coding this mod to push their agenda on others.
What I'm trying to say though is that most of them just do make their character a guy and move on. They don't need the mod and the people who they think do need it aren't going to install it. It's not just a transparent attempt to ignite culture war arguments online, but it's a stupid and ineffective one.
Apparently nexus mods has some sort of ad sharing with mod makers. Could be a grift. Grift is popular among right wingers, possibly because they are on a fundamental level stupid.
Some grifter makes an anti "woke" mod that probably took 5 minutes. A bunch of stupid chuds download it to pwn the libs. Grifter makes money. Chuds feel good about their shitty lives.
Insisting that Nexus Mods should host this bigoted mod is the losers who walk in fear of "woke culture" trying to enforce their bigoted views on the rest of the world. The assholes are still free to install that mod but Nexus Mods is just as free to not host that trash.
The crazy thing is how hysterical they're being over something you can fail to even notice is there. It gave me male pronouns as I choose the male body type, and the button prompt to change it is hidden way down at the bottom of the screen. It's literally on screen for a few seconds and then never mentioned again in a game with hundreds of hours gameplay.
Yeah, I'd see reaction videos before I played, and I honestly couldn't find how to change my pronouns for a good 30 seconds.
God, Bethesda sucks at UI.
Then they couldn't do their performative outrage, which is all they have.
Because they're little fucking babies.
If someone made a "killing Jews" mod it wouldn't be allowed either.
Nazis aren't welcome.
To confused people exploring from all Communities trying to understand what the hell is going on:
- Bethesda is a game studio who does a decent job of giving people choice to do/be whatever they want in their games. Out of the box they included the option to choose your pronouns in a new game called "Starfield".
- They also make it possible to modify their games to make very drastic changes to the player experience.
- Nexus is a site that hosts thousands of mods to all sorts of games. People make mods, upload them to Nexus and players download them.
- Someone made a mod to remove the option to choose pronouns from Starfield.
- Nexus decided they don't want to host this mod. It's hurtful to people and goes against their values of inclusivity.
That's about it. Most of the people whinging about censorship don't even play the game. They're just here to whinge about how the world is moving on from old bigoted ways and they want to stay in the past and be jerks to people for merely existing. If they actually cared, they'd just download the mod from some other site. The mod itself is probably not much bigger than this reply.
This is all fine and well, but am I the only one a bit concerned about how NexusMods is practically a monopoly in the modding scene? Why does literally every modder have to use a rate-limiting host as a platform, especially when Github exists?
Well, for one thing, Nexus gives modders a share of ad revenue. Under a different name, I have a mod that's a backend requirement for a big, popular mod, and that nets me a reliable few bucks a month.
That said, a good portion of the modding community also exists on Gamebanana. If you want BotW, ToTK or Source engine mods, GB is the go-to.
Wait I have a stupid subscription to nexus and idk why I haven't canceled it (used it for one month for some mod back in the day). I use nexus for all mods. Should I keep my sub then because all I care about is modders getting something.
I bought lifetime premium years ago when it was still an option and have never once regretted it.
Mods uploaded to github does really suck for discoverability though. There's the roguelike Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead. The modding scene exists entirely on Github and you'd basically never find them unless you go searching for mods on their Discord channel.
Steam workshop exists as well, for games that support it.
That's even worse though. Plenty of games (e.g. Stellaris and RimWorld) are also available on platforms like GOG or, ugh, Epic. But if you want to use mods and you bought the game on any platform other than Steam it's fuck you.
Even if you buy Terraria off of steam, you can use steam mods. Sounds like a per-game problem, rather than a steam problem.
I know it is, developers can block downloads unless the user is signed into a Steam account that owns the game. But as an end-user that's distinction without difference.
https://steamworkshopdownloader.io/ never gotten this to work myself but I put the least amount of effort in as possible. There may be others as well but I remember when I did my research a couple years ago that it was a real trudge and almost not worth it.
I know there are workarounds, but this is true. There are very little games I buy (at least directly) through steam nowadays, because I didn't like what it became after the Greenlight/Direct debacle and I didn't want my library to be that dependent of them anymore.
I have playnite as a unified game library launcher (with GoG, itch.io, humble, Ubi, EA, even Amazon Prime and freaking EGS just for the free games), so where I get my games from doesn't matter much for me now.
But workshop integration is basically the only thing that makes me want a Steam copy for a game.
Though among the games in that case, there were Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress, and for both if you get a copy directly from the developers, you get DRM-free and a Steam key. So, that's what I did.
There's a couple issues with it. I mean, it's simple for games where you're not using a bunch of mods, but at some point it just becomes excessive. Not to mention that when a mod updates, the mod will automatically update breaking your game sometimes, or when you're trying to play a game, a mod just doesn't update causing it to break the game that way too. There's just a lack of control that's often necessary when modding.
For beatsaber (which doesn't use steam workshop), the there's no steam integration and its a pain to deal with.
For terraria (which uses steam workshop), the modloader is smart enough to know which mods don't work with the current version of the game and disables them and steam lets you easily change which version of the game you have by using the "beta" options. Only time I've had issues with updates breaking things since 1.4 release was during beta-builds of 1.4 tmodloader (and those were generally easily fixed by going to the discord and finding the file to fix it). Since then, no needing to find files and paste them over the existing files, etc. No trying to install one mod at a time out of a dozen or two until you find which one breaks it and redoing the whole process over again. Pretty sure it also just uses the version of mods that support the game version you have, deals with dependencies automatically, etc.. The modloader will also direct you to things like the non-steam pages for mods (sometimes forum posts, sometimes discord, etc).
I don't think the steam integration is needed for such a seamless mod experience, but its certainly compatible with it. And terraria is an outlier because the game devs encourage mods and has a huge and dedicated community. For smaller games with devs that don't like mods, simply trying to keeping things working may take so much work, so that time that making a good integrated user experience is probably difficult.
Let's be real here though, Terraria is an unfair comparison considering it's modloader is integrated into the game itself and holds significantly greater support than most other mods with Steam Workshop support. (Oh and that the modloader is basically a community made mod manager anyways and is akin to using the community mod managers for the games mentioned below)
Stellaris, Rimworld, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Total War: Warhammer 3, Binding of Isaac, Dwarf Fortress, Space Engineers, Cities: Skylines, all of these very popular games with massive modding support are still plagued by the issues I mentioned above. And you know what? It has the issues you mentioned as well. Did you subscribe to an outdated mod? Oh, well, good luck figuring out which one that is. Forgot to download a dependency? Crash. Did a mod update and Steam just didn't update the mod? Figure out what mod that was and unsubscribe to it and subscribe to it again. Did a mod just update and Steam updated the mod, even though the update breaks save compatibility? Well, unless the mod author uploaded the older version of the mod, good luck trying to have fun.
Natural monopoly. Nobody else offers as good of an experience. The closest is ModDB and their UX is stuck in the mid 2000s.
I don't think that term really applies here. It's not like the barrier to entry for a webservice hosting game modification data is all that high. It's very different from the railway, waterworks and power grid markets.
Also there are at least the competitors Loverslab, Curseforge, ModMD and Modrinth from the top of my head.
Indeed, it applies as much as accusations of monopoly. Two sides of the same coin. Really, it's not a monopoly situation or any kind at all. It's just by far the best of its kind and it has no competition.
Does any one of those integrate with Mod Organizer or do I have to download the mod (often also with an annoying wait time) and then point Mod Organizer to it. Do they have an API that enables "a new version is out" notifications, or do I have to hunt everything down manually.
It really wouldn't be that hard, but none of them cares. Nexus kinda has itself positioned well there as they would not have to support any third-party API endpoints in Vortex, but Vortex isn't even the popular choice for many games.
I know what Microsoft's general reputation is, but it's undeniable that GitHub has only seen improvements since Microsoft acquired it.
Yeah, an alternative using git would be good probably, but maybe don't use github. Preferably though, it'd be agnostic and just target some git repo anywhere. It'd pull from a description file for the page to ensure a uniform appearance preferably, and it'd show and manage versions from some uniformly named folder on the repo.
There's also steam workshop. Neither are shining examples of a free modding community. I think nexus mods starting out better and slowly enshittified but I don't know the extent of it.
I think it's just the internet being the internet. Or at least how it's been for awhile. There are big sites that a lot of people crowd to and that becomes the default. Like auctioning things off online. Ebay. That was where everyone went to. Need to order a few different things online? Amazon. Are there other online stores? Plenty. But Amazon is seen as cheap and convenient.
Nexus mods is just the popular site, but the moders have other options.
There's also the Thunder store!
That's kinda like saying PlanetMinecraft monopolized sharing world's, isn't it?
There's stuff like Curseforge, but it's only for some games, mostly Minecraft. The problem, if someone considers it a problem, is really that communities for games generally centralize around one site for their mods for the most part, and Nexus has garnered a lot of trust and therefore has more pull/inertia for communities working those things out.
As for Github, I believe the vast majority of mods have Github pages, but Github itself doesn't really have a UI suited for mod downloaders, and no real incentive to implement one. So sites like Nexus and Curseforge are still a necessity.
https://www.curseforge.com/starfield
Starfield mods (a few) on Curseforge currently
My only issue with Nexus is that I have to create a login to download mods there. I don't want to sign in to websites just to DL something. Curseforge is good for Minecraft mods and doesn't hassle me with a login prompt
I was really hoping thunderstore and mod.io would take off more since they seem more platform-agnostic and FOSS-like with their integration with git and versioning (and for some games they have), but people just prefer convenience of nexusmods and steam workshop unfortunately. They just have a bigger community and better discoverability in the end
They have integration with Ready Or Not iirc. MSFS also has far more mods on Flightsim.TO than on Nexus.
R2Modman and thunderstore.io has grown it's catalogue quite a bit as of late, but it's mostly (don't know if it's entirely or not) unity games. It's my favorite modding platform with features that make sharing modlists for multiplayer a breeze.
Nexus has the lions share, but only for some games, I had a premium subscription but still found for like half the games I mod that nexus either didn't have a modpage for them or that most modders for that game used other sites to host their mods
Their rate-limiting isn't bad at all, their integration into everything is excellent, and for games without much of a community Vortex is often the only mod manager. Their API isn't closed down, so Mod Organiser can integrate with Nexus just as well, and they probably would also do it with other mod sites if those ever bothered to set up a version check etc. API. They have an excellent search function.
In short: They provide a good service. Like the most annoying part about Nexus as a freeloader is the five or what seconds wait before your mod manager picks up the download.
And, no, their rate limiting really isn't bad. 1.5MB/s for people with adblock, 3MB/s for people without. How often do you download gigabytes worth of mods it's not like they're bullying you into a subscription.
But any rate-limit is worse than no rate-limit. GitHub exists and can provide the same features in a better manner with no limits whatsoever.
Github has other ways to make money, and Microsoft capital to back up everything. And granted Nexus could use a better bug tracker, but you won't see them getting into the private repository business any time soon.
In Curseforge we trust
Not really sure curseforge is better. Its another of those sites with an sketchy bloaty overwolf launcher that makes you jump through hoops to load mods onto a server.
It's concerningly hard to avoid overwolf in modding
Yeah no question Curseforge ain't great and if you want to get a modpack as opposed to a singular mod you get kind of screwed by the launcher.
Thing is, the alternatives tend to suck more. Plus my point was that Nexus ain't alone.
Considering their policy doesn't allow for other stuff like this, yeah I am not surprised.
Content that may be generally construed as provocative, divisive, objectionable, discriminatory, or abusive toward any real-world individual or group, may be subject to moderation. This includes but is not limited to content involving politics, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, or social class. We tolerate content related to real world issues and events as long as the appropriate tag ("Real World Issues") is used and the content is handled in a tasteful, respectful, and non-inflammatory manner. Users who do not wish to see such content should make use of our content blocking feature.
Reminds me of the time when a Spiderman mod removed the VERY few instances of a pride flag in a recreation of NEW YORK CITY and a Skyrim mod that removed any potential gay romances that only occur when wearing a very specific amulet (including a single dead skeleton couple off the beaten path.)
Those got booted as well cause.....come on now. Its blatantly targeting a group of people about their sexuality and gender who have BARELY any presence to begin with in these games.
Starfield is even more egregious as its LITERALLY just a menu option and the rare use in dialogue....
Really pathetic and sad people would even feel the need to make them to begin with. Let alone feel the need to upload them to a platform.
I swear to god, every time i hear about conservatives getting upset about gay and trans rights I'm more convinced it's projection. They want to have the freedom to follow their own preferences but have been taught by someone in their family and/or society that certain preferences are completely unacceptable. Rather than go against the grain, they lean into the hate side of it. "If i can't have that, you sure as hell can't--and if you do, you're gonna pay dearly" seems to be the philosophy. All this because they want to explore their sexuality but they decided the social price is too much. Not allowed to have what they crave, now they just scorn those that are brave enough to face the storm they themselves avoided...or they just hate people having freedom. Probably both.
The argument really isn't against pronouns.
It's against censorship. Why shouldn't I be able to remove that feature from my game if I want to?
Is it really hurting anyone if I don't want stupid pronouns in my game?
I'll note that I don't own the game and have never played it. Just an outside observer watching the stupidity.
I can tell you definitively that yes, this debate hurts people. Sending the statement that it's a valid point of view to consider trans people mentally ill (or worse) harms people. If you look at how our existence is being debated and the consequences of that you would have to be very privileged to not see a problem.
NexusMods is a private company with their own conditions for using their services.
You are not entitled to anything on others’ properties, including your ability to speak.
There is no freedom of speech here on lemmy.world either for you, they can restrict and block your posts from being seen by others, still their rights to do so.
Dude, I went through character creation and barely noticed the pronoun option was even there. The mod is unnecessary
Imagine if they removed a mod that included pronouns.
A mod that makes other people feel included is NOT on the same level as a mod that deliberately excludes them. There's a massive difference here.
The pronoun removing mod is a pretty blatant message of hate and deserves to be moderated as such. People can go on about freedom of speech blah blah blah, but no one is required to include you in their community if you're being mean and hateful. That's exactly what happened here.
On "removing a mod that lets you commit pedophilia"
"...How dare you. Imagine if they removed a mod that got rid of pedophilia".
Do you see why "both sides" of the issue are not "exactly alike"?
You can so whatever you want to your installation of the game on your computer. Nexus does not have to host it. No freedoms lost.
But we all know you're not using the mod, you just want it up to stick it to the libs.
How about names. Do you call Muhammad Ali still Cassius Clay? Just because that’s the name he was given at birth. Should people not have the right to change their name? Like it is here in Germany. And what exactly do you consider stupid about the pronouns them or they? I think they (!) are just normal pronouns, aren’t they? And for quite some time they are regularly used to replace single persons, if the gender of that person isn‘t known. I know that because when that started I was totally confused because I had learned different at school in the 70s.
You could, you just can't host it there.
It's not censorship when private groups are doing it. Moreso, I think the entire world has figured out the right answer to the Paradox of Tolerance is intolerance (yes, even censorship).
There are two reasons said censorship is okay.
- Those who hold to these extreme beliefs are happy to censor the opposing viewpoint whether we censor them or not. They see the idea of trans human rights as unworthy of protection.
- So long as you allow a false belief to spread, there will always be adherents. When it is a harmful belief, that makes even innocent-seeming propagation of that belief genuinely harmful... which by every moral tradition (and most legal ones) is sufficient to override freedom of speech.
Remember, there is no free speech absolutism where all speech is protected. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying or ignorant. What we're arguing about is whether to draw the line at malicious behavior that is already more harmful than speech many of us are already against.
And from your "don't want stupid pronouns in my game", you show you've fallen for bullet point #2.
People say Lemmy isn't a hivemind but the reaction to your comment proves that this is not the case.
I'm pro choice either way. If people want to identify as they, them, it. It's up to them. If people want the option to remove that from their game it's also up to them. Who cares either way.
Shit opinions get downvoted????? No way!!! Why would people do this!?!?!?
No I do not, no one should. Your comment is the correct way of disagreeing, downvote parades are not.
Bear in mind I don't give a shit about pronouns or no pronouns, I am against the unilateral censorship of a mod.
With the way G*mers are trying to justify being shitheads. It does feel like Reddit.
I would imagine a bare handful of people install them.
There's some number of people who are so angry and stupid that the mere sight of something like an option to choose pronouns fills them with blind, seething rage, so for them, mods like this are essentially QOL improvements.
More's the pity...
option to choose pronouns fills them with blind, seething rage
Yeah I was there when BATTLETECH (still dunno why its name has to be so LOUD :P ) launched. Every hatefool was raging about it, apropos of anything or nothing. Try to talk about any part of it and it's "OH YOU MEAN FUCKING PRONOUNWARRIOR?!?!" and a bunch of incoherent senseless bile. There's a sizeable group of people who deeply love being offended, and it's not us (queerfolk/LGBTQIA+/QUILTBAG/GSM/whatever). Like, I'm neck-deep in queer over here and every time I play a game with a pronoun selector at the beginning I promptly forget about it but oohhhh nooo, not these bellends. They somehow think a button at the beginning of the game that matters like three times ever has entirely DESTROYED videogames with LIES and FALLACIES 🙄
They'd be a joke and an insignificant oddity if they didn't deliberately make messes of everything else (say, going to MWLL/other games, ranting about "pronounwarrior," pretty sure some critters got teamkilled over it...) for no good reason.
They'd be a joke and an insignificant oddity if they didn't deliberately make messes of everything else
My opinion exactly.
In ways, I actually feel sorry for them. In the first place, it has to suck just to be that angry and spiteful, but underneath that, it must really suck to feel so powerless and desperate and insecure that something as trivial and irrelevant as pronouns can send you into a compensatory rage.
My pity is greatly diminished by the fact that they're toxic assholes who try to force the world to accommodate their own failures though.
Wait, Battletech? The turn based one? From 2018?
That's amusing. I played that a couple months ago. I don't recall ever selecting a pronoun, but I'm sure I did and then just moved on like a normal person.
Yeah, that's the one. There was so much outrage because it had the word "pronoun" in it at all 🤣It's just a little thing on the side during character creation and its effect is absolutely trivial. Actually I think the other MechWarriors 'have pronouns' too if you deliberately open the character editor for them. It's really the bare minimum, like I'm trying to come up with something sarcastic but those people were freaking out over nnnnooothing like the one word in one game is gonna ruin videogames for them forever, or some crap.
Which, like... if we could somehow trans so hard they'd go away don't they think we'd do it instead of just getting yelled at?
Meanwhile, my canonically enby commander is rocking a fabulous magenta mohawk and having fun headshotting all the King Crabs so they can sell them to afford catperson surgery.
Hah! Good luck with that :3
(Same but mine doesn't have the mohawk and doesn't specifically hunt KGCs :P ^.^ )
I've seen that in videos, but I always assumed it was for show to get their viewers riled up. I honestly can't imagine an actual person doing this on their own, unless they were encouraged to do it by some influencer.
As in, how many people fire up a game, get mad that pronouns exist, and then search online for a "fix"? I think that number is pretty small.
But then again, I tend to be pretty careful about distancing myself from bigots.
Small government alpha males scared of having the option to choose he/him as their pronouns
Mostly the outrage.
How are these people not seeing that they are actively trying to censor shit with the shyte excuse "keep politics out of my games", and then turn around and yell censorship as soon as people ignore their bigoted crap.
You don't need to answer, it's rhetorical.
Incredibly petty mod to make in the first place, so Nexus might as well be petty too and remove it.
Nowadays everything seems newsworthy... I would not be mad about it if Bethesda did not include a pronoun setting, i am not mad someone made a mod to remove said option, i am not mad nexus keeping its sovereignty to decide what they host...
What is everyone mad about? Just let ppl do whatever they do.
They finally give you something that controls how people refer to you in their games, and dipshits wanna remove it? This is as close as you're going to get to having characters refer to you as a choice you've taken other than Codsworth and Vasco having like 1000 generic names recorded to use.
They definitely use your pronouns a lot. It's all they refer to you as, aside from cute nicknames like "Dusty," or "rook" or "renegade." Probably doesn't stand out if you chose your normal pronouns, since they'd just be say he/him or she/her or they/them.
A security officer referred to me as sir in New Atlantis.
I mean, I sorta get it. Identity politics are political and often divisive, and some people don't want it in their escapism.
It's not a perfect analogy, but if a role-playing game had a mandatory character-selection choice to choose if my character was pro-choice or pro-life, I could see myself mildly resenting it.
Not really a good example. A more apt example is if these people were getting angry that the character creator allowed a player to create a woman, or a person of colour. The game offering you a choice of pronouns is not asking you for a political opinion, it's literally just an option to create a type of character that these people don't think should exist.
And that's the crux of it, they aren't angry about pronouns, they're angry about trans and non-binary people becoming normalised.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn't political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it's right or wrong. I think that you're correct and that it seems like something done as ammunition in the Culture War; normalizing identity politics rather than a design decision done out of a necessity to improve the quality of the game apart from that.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you're pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it's not just putting the politics in the game, it's taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would resent that in their escapism.
I guess my existence is "political" then, I guess I can't exist in a space without having something "forced" on people.
We were male/female, now we're women/men/other, that's it. It's a personal matter that we go through and we want to simply exist. That's only "political" when your dealing with people who actively want to harm our rights. I cannot stress enough that these people shouldn't be treated with respect as if they're not trying to destroy people for a simple personal choice.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn't political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it's right or wrong.
Women and black people getting the right to vote and be treated equally has always been "political" you fucking jackass.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn't political.
I agree, they should not be, but people still try and make them political.
Trans, non-binary, etc is
No. Absolutely not. Trans people and non-binary people are types of people who exist. Exactly the same as men, women, people of colour, and so forth. They are no more or less political than those other types of people. People still make them political, but that's exactly the same thing as with other groups.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you're pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it's not just putting the politics in the game, it's taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would reset that in their escapism.
You are mistaken. There is no political opinion here. None is being asked for, and none is being assigned. The character creator having additional options is just allowing players to make trans or non-binary characters. This isn't asking you for a political opinion, it's simply adding options to create more types of characters.
Which is why the bigots are upset. Because they don't think those types of characters should be allowed to be made.
being a man, woman, or black person isn't political
Being a woman isn't political... until I do it? Kinda seems like there's no actually valid (sound? I forget the terminology) argument for how our existence is a problem, nor for how supporting or acknowledging our existence is a problem.
I don't actually quite understand what you're on about but it kinda seems like you're arguing that allowing people to play characters that don't match your preferences exactly is some kind of forced political thing and that's kinda horsecrap, y'know?
Anyway I'm gonna go exist at that bigot up there now. Byeee ö/
Aside from you being transphobic, you should realize that the people complaining about pronouns are also the people who complain about the "replaced white people" and "female leaders" in the game. So I guess black people and women are also political, by your logic?
The best bigots are the ones that tell on themselves, dontcha think?
Terrible analogy. It's just turning the binary male / female into non binary body types & pronouns to be more inclusive for those who fall outside the norm on the spectrum of things.
I wouldn't. I mean, I hate Nazis but I don't mind a game where I can choose to play as one (so long as the context makes sense like it's a multiplayer WW2 game or Diso Elysium). It's a fuckin' choice. If you don't like one of the options: Choose a different one.
I used to have a lot of respect for Az from HeelVsBabyface as a content creator back when he did WoW videos. Many of the fanboys who play Blizzard games dismissed him as a whiny bitch when he complained about issues with the game long before other more respected creators (i.e. Bellular, Asmongold, Sodapoppin, Preach) jumped on the very same 'fuck Blizzard' bandwagon.
Watched him a lot less after he branched away from WoW stuff because his content was more anti-woke and not really of my interest.
His two minute anti-pronoun rant made him look like a clown and was the last straw that made me unsub to his YouTube and unfollow him on X.
What people like Az seem to forget is that Starfield is set hundreds of years in the future. I can understand why a pronoun selection menu would look out of place in a medieval setting like The Elder Scrolls, but not in a game set 300 years in the future.
Also, nobody is forcing you to play as a trans or non-binary character. This is not discrimination against white men as Az pointed out in his nonsensical rant. You can make a white male character that identifies with he/him pronouns and not be placed at a disadvantage in the game.
I'm fine with it too!
Nexus Mods has had some controversy in the past but they seem generally solid.
I can get behind the whole: "i'm playing games to escape from the world, stop dragging the real world politics into games" sentiment, but!
I made a trans character in cyberpunk because haha look a penis and boobies, Apparently Diego is now in a gay relationship with Sam...something about Sam and Cora (i find them adoreable, i'm just sad i can't give her all the books i steal) made me prefer them and...well i'm gay it seems lol.
Even more layers to roleplaying yay.
I'm finding it very difficult to phrase this comment. I want to share my thoughts, but I know that if I am perceived as a bigot, everything I say will be seen as something to be defeated rather than understood. But tiptoeing around the subject doesn't convey my meaning any better. So please, give me the benefit of the doubt long enough to hear me out.
I think what nexus is doing here is inappropriate. Mods, by their very existence, give players choice. Even this one: it means players can now choose he or she or to not be asked at all. Nexus, by removing this mod, is exerting what influence they have to eliminate that choice.
Nexus has considerable influence. For many games, particularly Bethesda games, they are seen as the default and complete source of mods. When looking for new mods to install, most people wouldn't bother checking other sites since everything is on nexus. If players aren't aware a mod exists, in other words they are unaware an option exists, that hinders them from making that choice. Also, their vortex mod manager makes installing mods from nexus super simple. By removing the mod from their site, they are making installing the mod at least a little bit more difficult.
I have seen multiple people posit here that removing the mod is fine because it does something so silly and pointless that no one should care about it. But we all care about silly, pointless things from time to time. I have spent days comparing all of the ways of getting unified GTK and QT themes on my desktop to try and get them just right. That was entirely pointless. But I wanted it that way, so I made it that way. I don't have to justify it to anyone, and neither do the users of this mod. Installing the mod will only affect their game, no one else even has to know about it. Nexus' decision does effect other people. They do have to justify themselves. Removing the mod is telling people they must select a pronoun. If it is really so pointless, nexus shouldn't have bothered removing the mod.
People also claim that the political implications made by the mod are dangerous, and must be suppressed. I know you'll roll your eyes at me, but yes: I'm making the free speech argument. It really is important though. If we, as a society and as individuals, accept suppressing speech for it's ideological contents, then we are begging the question: which ideas are ok, and which aren't? The ability to control public discourse is powerful, and highly coveted by anyone who wants to bend society to their will. It has been done before, and we know how horrible the consequences can be. It is incredibly dangerous. Answering that question at all is only justifiable in the face of a comparable danger. Is the idea of not being asked one's pronouns really a comparable danger? Nexus seems to think so.
Of course, free speech also protects Nexus' right to control what they put on their platform. I am not saying they shouldn't have that right. But nexus is a platform, not a person. They position their site not as a place for them to share their own content, but for others to share theirs. Any modification to the contents of their site is a modification to other people's speech, not just Nexus's. They ought to use their capability in this regard responsibly and sparingly. Their actions here are neither.
I thought that others here on Lemmy believed in the same principles I do. That people should have total control over their own software and activities with it. That neither corporations nor governments should take any action to unduly control what they do with their own property. The belief in FOSS and decentralization seemed to go hand in hand with that. But if something like this can make you all turn on those principles, then maybe the resemblance wasn't even skin deep.
It wasn't removed because of the pronouns though. It was removed because the mod description violated their community policies.
There are plenty of mods just like it that the site keeps up. Dozens of mods even remove black characters from games, which is way worse. The difference is, those mods don't write long rants about how much they hate minorities and liberals in their descriptions.
To be entirely fair, if it's not the mods content itself, but the description, that got it removed, that should probably be clarified front and center. That's a pretty big shift from the mod being removed based on it's simple existence.
This finally explains it. I was about to write something similar as the comment you are replying to, because it did felt like a totally unnecessary PR stunt of another corporation that only exploits the issue for publicity, and I really hate that.
But if the mod description was as bad as you say, then removing it was the right move.
It wasn’t removed because of the pronouns though. It was removed because the mod description violated their community policies.
There are plenty of mods just like it that the site keeps up. Dozens of mods even remove black characters from games, which is way worse. The difference is, those mods don’t write long rants about how much they hate minorities and liberals in their descriptions.
if that's true then it makes sense
Edit: I just found out about the spider man pride flag removal mod debacle and read the official statement by Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/news/14733
In regards to the replacement of Pride flags in this game, or any game, our policy is thus: we are for inclusivity, we are for diversity. If we think someone is uploading a mod on our site with the intent to deliberately be against inclusivity and/or diversity then we will take action against it. The same goes for people attempting to troll other users with mods deliberately to cause a rise. For our part, we will endeavour to do a better job of moderating our website to this ethos ourselves.
We aren't the authority on what users can and cannot mod. Us removing a mod only means it cannot be found at Nexus Mods, nothing more, nothing less. We also note that we are not the only site that has removed this mod from their platform. As a private business, we have a right to choose what content we do and do not want to host on our platform. Respect this right the same way you want respect for your rights.
By Nexus Mods' own words they will take action against anti diversity/inclusivity mods and actively take a stance on what kinds of mods are allowed on Nexus Mods.
So regardless of what the mod descriptions may or may not have said, it seems Nexus Mods would've deleted this pronoun removal mod as well.
These aren't mods I would've bothered using (and I don't even play these games either) but Nexus Mods trying to police what mods players are allowed to use is pretty shit.
The great thing about mods is they only affect the people who choose to get them and gives everyone more choices to change games to what they want, and I don't think anyone should try to force what kinds of mods are allowed or not.
The whole point of modding is that you find something you don't like or think could've been improved in some way, so you change it to your preference.
I think what nexus is doing here is inappropriate. Mods, by their very existence, give players choice. Even this one: it means players can now choose he or she or to not be asked at all. Nexus, by removing this mod, is exerting what influence they have to eliminate that choice.
I don't think you're a bigot, but I also think you're off the mark.
First off, the mod has quite literally zero value. Installing it is more work than ignoring an option during character creation. I constantly ignore options I don't care about during character creation, it really isn't hard. It's hard to interpret the intent of the creator of the mod, as well as its users, as anything else but being out for blood.
That alone though isn't a reason to remove the mod -- Nexus is full of useless mods. But something neat happens when you do nuke the mod: Bigots come out of the woodwork, you can ban them in one fell stroke, and thereby lessen your moderation load in the long term.
Last, but not least, the curse of neutrality aka the Nazi bar thing.
Oh, EDIT:
Removing the mod is telling people they must select a pronoun. If it is really so pointless, nexus shouldn’t have bothered removing the mod.
You don't have to select a pronoun. The default will match the phenotype of the body you select.
I am now totally confused as to what is even going on. After reading multiple top level comments, many responses and then reading the article (gasp I know... blasphemy) I can't tell if conservatives are mad about pronouns being an option or not being an option. Many of the comments made it sound like they added pronouns, the way the article is written makes it sound like they removed the ability to choose pronouns.
So which is it. Who is mad, and why exactly?
Edit: Okay, maybe I understand now. Someone created a mod that removed pronouns. The place that hosts mod downloads, removed that mod from their list of downloads. Now people are mad it was removed. Do I have that right? If so, my only remaining question is if one were to use the mod, does it mean others not using the mod can't see their pronoun(s)?
Selecting the sex of the PC has been a standard feature in practically every RPG with character creator ever, and definitely in Bethesda RPGs, what they added is an option to change pronouns the PC is referred to by NPCs from the default. If you want them to match you simply don't touch that option, done.
From a developer's perspective it's dead simple, similar in triviality as allowing people to mix+match any voice to any body type. Cyberpunk's free choice of genitals needs some implementation care but if you're planning for it from the start it's also easy.
Where things get more complicated is things like dresses for male bodies, especially if you don't have any shape keys in place. But if you use one body mesh for everything and simply shape key it into male and female then it's again no issue (you also need to lerp animations then, probably, male and female bodies walk differently because hips). Basically it's hard if your asset pipeline is simple, if the pipeline is sophisticated it's easy.
If so, my only remaining question is if one were to use the mod, does it mean others not using the mod can’t see their pronoun(s)?
It's a singleplayer game. Nothing you do can have any effect on the experience other people have with the game.
I think this is the reply that prompted me to reply at the top of the post. Does your edit mean I was of some help? You appear to have the right of it, yes.
As to your second question: what mod loadout a player has will have zero bearing on another's experience. If one were to use the mod, others would not be affected.
Yes, I believe re-reading your comment (not sure if it was post or pre edit) finally made me put all the pieces together.
If this is single player, the controversy is even more dumb than I had originally thought.
Now I am curious what the default pronoun options are, and if you were able to skip choosing it entirely, or pick "other" or "none"?
This mod is taking away a choice though.
I'm pretty sure the vanilla game has the option to choose pronouns that conform to whatever your feelings about gender are. So choose that option and play the game.
Why should Nexus devote resources to a mod that removes options from a game? There's no point to this mod for anyone that's of sound mind. The only reason for it's existence is some petty bullshit from people that hate trans people so much they will install a mod in a feeble attempt to feel like they hurt people in some small way.
If the mod just totally skipped character creation and the goal was to just save time, I could see the purpose. But its clearly not there to save anyone time; its just there as an excuse to tirade against certain demographics for existing.
I’m pretty sure the vanilla game has the option to choose pronouns that conform to whatever your feelings about gender are.
If you're a hardcore heteronormie, congrats, the default behavior of the game conforms with your worldview. Simply choose a male or female body, and don't even touch the pronouns. They're automatically what they're "supposed" to be.
No it's not, you have the choice not to download it it's not forced upon you.
This is not a place of acceptance. This is a left wing echo chamber. You either tow the narrative or GTFO.
I think of myself as very moderate. I'm neither supportive of right wing horse shit or the lefts batshit insanity. I'll get downvoted into oblivion every time for pointing out this place being extreme left, or for making any comment that doesn't align strictly with the narrative taking points.
what exactly is the left's batshit insanity in this instance? literally that the game lets you pick your pronouns?
did you know that fallout: a post-nuclear role playing game (1997) also allowed you to do this? a few other games that have let you do this are fallout 2 (1998), mass effect (2007), fallout 3 (2008), mass effect 2 (2010), skate 3 (2010), the elder scrolls 5: skyrim (2011 and also every year since), mass effect 3 (2013), fallout 4 (2015), sonic forces (2017), mass effect andromeda (2017), cyberpunk 2077 (2020), trackmania 2020 (2020), and literally every other game ever to feature a character creator. if this is batshit insanity, then i can't wait to find out what you think of unions.
What narrative talking points? Gay people exist, trans people exists. There's nothing political about that. If you think otherwise you need to adjust thinking of yourself as a moderate.
Dude I thought reddit was leftist and then I came here. Funny thing is I'm a pansy lefty European (believe in social healthcare, UBI and all that good stuff) yet this place is a bit much for me.
The fact that you wrote that wall of text just to not get attacked speaks volumes of the current state of progressivism in this place, you can't say anything and you are walking on eggshells.
And you know what? Fuck those dipshits.
And are these "progressives" in the room now? No, they're clearly not. Nobody is attacking him and he's not even being downvoted.
He wrote the wall of text because he has the self awareness to know that the comment he is writing is functionally identical to what a far-right reactionary "hiding their power level" would write.
if you're having trouble comprehending what he wrote in a few sentences, perhaps your bot needs more tokens to parse what he's putting out, for humans it's incredibly straight forward.
He wrote the wall of text because he has the self awareness to know that the comment he is writing is functionally identical to what a far-right reactionary "hiding their power level" would write
This paragraph is the funniest shit I have read today.
Of course is Kotaku coming with a whole tempest in a teapot over this.
Kotaku is an absolute joke, but that's not new, they are the laughing stock of game journalism for a reason.
Tbh I don't even know why the option even exists. I have 2 days worth of playtime and not once does it go on about pronouns or anything like that. So to me the menu seems completely pointless. If i can recall i also don't think the NPCs have even referred to me as male or he/him. Maybe Bethesda added it last minute or something to try to appeal to a larger group of people idk. I'm just enjoying my spaceship man.
When you meet Sam & Cora they'll refer to you by your pronoun while they talk about you.
The whole thing is just to make the character generation non binary, that's it. I don't see why this is such a big deal for some people. I'm a cis male, I select a masculine body type and go with he / him, or maybe they / them, and be done with it. It does nothing but help others feel more included.
Ohhhh. Wow i never noticed that tbh. I was so focused on trying to win sarah over. Never met a more picky person in my life. Now she resides on europa because she bitches every time i steal or a innocent sounding dialog option makes her mad. Sam is cool every ounce and a while he says something about me stealing but it's not as annoying. I've yet to come across cora. I spend so much time in the ship builder.
You might've missed their initial dialog in the lodge, which happened in that garden area. You can find her typically in the basement where she has her room and she will be on board of your ship if you assign Sam onto it. The kids in Starfield are actually pretty cute and wholesome, unlike the literal spawns of Satan from Skyrim.
Ohhh that kid! I completely ignored that little stinker. I remember her trying to con me out of 50 creds for books. I'm too greedy for that i got ships to build.
I'm not super far in, but I have heard it. The first time I remember hearing it is in the opening act when Lin is telling Barrett about you. Also when Sam talks to the marshal about you in Akila City. I suppose there are only so many opportunities for other characters to talk about you while you're standing right there, but it does pop up, so it's nice to have the option for those moments.
Do people really care what gender the MC is? I just role play as whatever gender the character is.
If I'm playing Tomb Raider, I am Laura Croft. If I play GTA, I'm CJ or Trevor or whatever. If I'm given a choice, I'll sometimes look up if the gender matters (e.g. in Mount and Blade it can impact relations), and otherwise just pick randomly. When there's a character creation screen, I usually randomize it a few times and get into the game.
I wouldn't mind role playing as a gay or trans person, though I'd be a little worried about the content because I'm not looking for anything with relationships, I want to wreck monsters and solve puzzles.
Depends on if the character's supposed to be a self insert. In a game with deep customization you may be trying to make yourself, and not playing as Lara Croft or Geralt, so being able to choose your pronouns helps immersion, and immersion's a big deal to many players who'll take it anywhere they can get it in a game, whether it's pronouns, or being able to see your torso and feet when you look down.
Huh, I guess I never want to insert myself because I'm not that interesting. :) I play games to escape myself, and I really hate seeing my own name show up in games.
But that's probably more my personality (I hate being publicly praised) than anything else.
Most guys choose to be guys when given the choice, for example. Apparently a lot of people do care. Gender fluid, agender people, casgender people, etc may not care or vary more.
I did notice it when creating my character but the only thing I thought was "Oh hey, cool"
Edit: I thought you said you didn't notice the option even exists but I'll just leave this here anyways
It was most likely a Marketing/management decision, just a checkbox to fill to show people they "care".
Or one of the many, many people involved with development suggested it because it applied to them or someone they knew and the decision was made to include it out of respect for the people involved.
Or, maybe, inclusivity is never a bad thing, regardless of your personal level of cynicism. Hate the world all you want, but there are people out there that appreciate and deserve things like this.
Huh, just considering practicality, how many new characters would one have to create in order to save rather than waste downloading this? Given the time required to download, read, and set up, I’d guess somewhere in the range of 20-30 characters.
Speedrunners might download a mod to skip setup entirely, not a single option. Of the millions who purchased starfield, perhaps a few dozen might use this ergonomically. Neat.
Speedrunners might download a mod to skip setup entirely, not a single option.
I'm pretty sure that this would disqualify the run, unless it's specifically allowed in a particular category.
Practice mods are occasionally used if, say, there’s a tricky section 1.5 hours in. With route highlighting or landscape deemphasizing, if necessary. Speedrunning has slowed to a crawl in the last decade so that seems unlikely.
Exactly. So whats the big hullabuloo here? Let people mod their single player game the way they want.
And its not like the player doesn't kill hundreds in a normal play through, pronouns seem like a minor thing in comparison.
It is not a big deal. It doesnt have to be. Its just a small mod with a small change that some people apparently wanted for their experience. They didnt demand to change the game. I dont see problem with choosing pronouns, but I also dont see a problem with changing pointless stuff in your game.
Just pick your pronouns when you create your character. These are people getting their panties in a twist because they are being reminded that other people can choose different pronouns.
These are people getting their panties in a twist because they are being reminded that other people can choose different pronouns.
That's nothing new. The vast majority of far-right reactionaries know exactly zero trans people. They're getting upset because a stranger, who exists entirely in their imagination, may have an opinion about their own body that the far-right have not approved as "okay to have".
Of course, there's probably deeper reasons that they won't say out loud. What if they accidentally find a "man" attractive? What if they have to treat a casual acquaintance with basic human decency?
The horror.
I'd imagine for some, the problem is being reminded they too can choose. And they've had the option to choose for a long time.
Honestly, that was my biggest issue the idea of asking other people their pronoun was sort of a trend (at least according to the rightwing media? idk; I've never once seen a person ask another person their pronouns in IRL). For some reason I never wondered why I, as a "cis man", I'd be afraid of such a question (especially since I was the type to like when people mistook me for being gay, so it wasn't like I was afraid of having my "masculinity questioned" or was anti-LGBT).
What difference does it make to anyone that people are doing this in their own game? It's not like this mod takes the option away for everyone. It doesn't. It only effects their own private game they're playing in their own home.
If the primary objective here is to engage in constructive dialogue, then name-calling and overgeneralization serve no purpose and only fuel the fire. The issue at hand has been conflated to be about political affiliations like Republican vs. Democrat, when that's not the core point of discussion at all. We're here to debate the merits and drawbacks of mod removal, not to stereotype one another based on our political leanings or otherwise.
I must point out, albeit reluctantly, that much of the stereotyping and overgeneralizing in this thread seems to be coming from those who are in favor of the mod's removal. This does little to advance a constructive conversation and only serves to deepen divisions.
If we're truly interested in finding common ground or at least understanding the other side of the argument, we need to stop dismissing each other's viewpoints out of hand. Only through respectful and open discussion can we hope to reach a resolution that considers the full complexity of the issue.
Sorry this is stupid all round. People are stupid for getting annoyed that you can set pronouns in a game, but Nexus are stupid for removing the mod that allows players the ability to if THEY wish to choose so.
Nexus just hosts the mod, if anybody is offended they could just not download it.
Oh lord what a bunch of cringe. Who fucking cares? About any of this? There's so much awful shit in the world and so many people spending their time worrying about the absolute nothing issues of the world.
Rule of thumb - if there are two sides to the issue, but one side is only supported by heartless idiots, and these heartless idiots happen to be identified with the political camp you oppose - then it's a political issue.
Look I've got no skin in the game here, what's wrong with having a mod that removes a selector in a character creation screen?
I get that some people are upset if they get misgendered or whatever (as I would be...my chosen pronouns just happen to line up with what everyone assumes they are...comfy living) but is it really necessary to force everyone to have a pronoun selection option if they don't want a pronoun selection option? You're not going to make someone blinded by hate see any clearer by forcing them to do something that only affects them.
Edit: I'm sorry if my questioning hurt some folks, that wasn't my intention. I couldn't see what the big deal was, but thanks to those who made the effort to engage with me, I have a more informed view and I can appreciate why the mod was removed and why its existence was upsetting.
Censorship is censorship; I mean, it's their right, but it still stinks. One day they can/will remove all sexual mods for being too misogynistic, etc.
Basically, fuck people crying over pronounces and fuck Nexus Mods.
Well they’re fine with murder but not removing the pronoun selector? Odd mentality.
Said the person arguing in favour of removing the pronoun selector, but not arguing that they should remove the murder.
Keep clutching those pearls Karen.
Murder?
Edit: wait, do you just mean the concept of murder in video games?
They can form their own mod site.
I dont know who is the most pathetic group here, if nexus mods for taking down a dumb harmless mod for ridiculous reasons or the moders that made a mod that takes out a dumb harmeles feature for ridiculous reasons. Nexus mods sucks either way and the mod devs suck too.
Another reason for not piling everything onto Nexus mods, their site, their rules unfortunately.
I’m fine with you leaving too.
You too can leave
Removing the mod is imposing a political viewpoint, and it's also completely performative. Why should NexusMods care if the mod exists? Everybody mods their games at their own consent.
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
No non-conforming people were protected by this move.
By taking this down, NexusMods communicated that they care about non-conforming people far more than if they had just said it. They are creating an environment where bigotry is removed rather than accepted. Nobody is saying you can't be a bigot in private with your game, we are saying if you're going to be a bigot we don't want you to do it here with us because we care about the people you are excluding/hurting.
Rejecting gender ideology isn't bigotry. Removing it from a game where its present also isn't bigotry. Removing the mod is just performative slacktivism and does nothing to help anyone.
Yall said the same shit about gay people a couple years ago. It was all the same talking points, it's just slightly modded to fit trans people now. It was bigotry then, it's bigotry now.
Said what shit? When? What are you even talking about?
Rejecting bigotry is not supposed to be a political viewpoint.
Addendum: "YourContentSucks" just went through my profile and downvoted everything lol what a cuck A2: Actually now that I think of it the username does kind of check out
What rock did you sleep under? It’s ALWAYS been a political viewpoint.
is not supposed to be
Then that’s just naive.
Rejecting gender ideology isn't bigotry. Also, like I said, nobody installs mods they don't want. It literally affects zero people who don't want it to affect them.
Okay, but nobody has done that.
How come you're only defending the people putting this hateful shit on there? You aren't impressing anybody on here by "seeing both sides" if you're only seeing the modders side.
Nexus removed a mod that may be (and has obviously been, because otherwise nobody would be making posts about it) perceived as hateful by others and you're over here defending the modders that put that shit on there because "it's political" from Nexus to take the obviously political mod down.
On the other hand you're probably the type preaching about "Well Twitter is allowed to encourage hate speech on their site because it's their website and they're allowed to do whatever they want, you don't have to use it if you feel attacked by that", but Nexus is not? Nexus' site-wide rules don't count because they're "pushing leftist agenda" by removing mods that were never allowed there to begin with?
"Why should NexusMods care if the mods exist?" why do you care so much if it doesn't exist any longer? If you feel that attacked by the removal of an anti-pronouns mod you can just make a new one yourself or download it from somewhere else. Or just not give a fuck/be happy like every other normal functioning human being.
Would you care as much as to reply to this post, if they had instead instead removed a mod that added pronouns to a game? Would that not be imposing political views as well then? Or would you just not care because you care more about making non-binary people feel excluded rather than included?
You're not making a point here. We are making this network a place that is inclusive to people all over the gender spectrum. Defending those that do not, is not making a point.
I do not care to read any more of your replies as your points are easily dismantled even by someone that's as stupid as I am.
If you do reply, just say yes or no to the following question, that I had posed earlier: Would you care this much if they had removed a mod that added pronouns to a game?
Try to think as hard as you can, I do not want to read any excuse for either answer. Just imagine yourself in that situation and tell me.
It's not hateful shit, and I'm not trying to "see both sides," either. I have no quarter for gender ideologues. However, I do think that any person or business (that doesn't have any kind of monopoly status over critical services) has the freedom to refuse to serve anyone they want for any reason they want, so GN is free to take down whatever they want and they don't really owe any of us an explanation.
And, really, I'm not defending the people who made the mod and put it up. They don't really need a defense. I'm just pointing out that the removal of it makes GN either petty activists, or scared of the left.
Obviously gender ideologues perceive it as hateful, but so what? Gender ideologues perceive literally anything they disagree with, no matter how slightly as hateful. It's their entire brand. Would GN host mods for a game if the game itself was "hateful?" Absolutely not. And if a mod whose only function is to remove the ability to arbitrarily select your pronouns is hateful, then why isn't every single game which is supported on GN that does not offer that functionality considered hateful and have all support for it removed? The answer is simple: GN are petty activists and this is performative.
My views on Twitter (et al) haven't changed even after its ownership changed hands from someone who I don't like to someone who I don't like a little bit less. Not that it's on-topic, but I think platforms like Twitter need to decide if they are publishers or platforms and then play by the rules set forth for those that they decided to be, no mixing and matching. §230 of Title 47 needs an overhaul.
I really don't care that much about the mod and this event, in part because I can't afford the game nor the hardware needed to run it. But, I do have opinions on gender ideology and the behavior of public-facing organizations with respect to gender ideology.
I'll reiterate my point: GN are petty activists (or afraid of the left).
Yes, I would care the exact same amount. It's crummy behavior, no matter where it comes from. I can exist in the presence of ideas I don't agree with. I don't have the urge to stamp out, by fiat or coercion, every trace of any belief that differs from mine.
This has literally nothing to do with politics
It's literally gender ideology politics. Outside of that, there is zero reason to take down the mod. It harms nobody. It doesn't even violate their own TOS.
Gender ideology isn’t a political stance, wtf are you talking about?
This is the equivalent of me making a mod that removes all black people and calling it a political statement.
Gender ideology is literally sexual politics. The inclusion of the ability to select your pronouns (as opposed to what, I don't know, them being fixed according to the sex of the generated character?) is sexual politics. Modding that choice out is sexual politics. Removing the mod is sexual politics. Every action taken by all parties in this story is sexual politics.
It does:
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And it is their platform, that's why they care. They can dictate what is and isn't allowed there.
Nexus mods has no responsibility to host an asshole's dickery on their servers.
No one was benefited by your comment.
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists. Either that, or they're afraid of the left. Either way, it's worth pointing out. It carves out a space for competition.
Good. Let them tell everyone they're not fascists and dont support them. Most of us will support that.
Be real, the alphabet mafia will go after their ISP and call in bomb threats and get them SWATted.
It's not political activitism to be a half decent human being.
Removing the mod doesn't make Nexus decent human beings. It makes them petty activists who can't bear the thought of the existence of people who don't subscribe to the same ideology as they do.
True, but the act does show everybody that they are political activists.
Good.
Because the mod itself is intended as a form of political grandstanding. So that bigots can download it thousands of times and then hold it up and say 'look how many people are modding the woke out of BG3' in an attempt to discourage inclusive content in other titles.
Well, sure. Lots of people don't want woke garbage in their games. When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed. That's the real problem with it. It scares the shit out of the left because it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
Lots of people don't want woke garbage in their games.
They're welcome to make their own games, and host their own mods.
When it tops the download list the number of people who reject gender ideology is revealed.
Did it actually top the download list?
No?
That's what I thought.
it breaks the illusion of social acceptance the left fights so ferociously to maintain by force and fiat.
Imagine telling on yourself like that 🤣
Hi, woke garbage here. Very trans. Enby too. Just sitting here existing at you. Existing so hard, it probably hurts you just knowing about it. I hope it does, 'cause you're a prick and you deserve it ^.^
He's so scared he didn't even reply. What an incredible superpower you have! Kinda jealous tbh :)
Again, with the "existence" thing. Obviously people exist, but arbitrary pronouns are woke garbage.
The insecurity is on the part of the people trying to modify the language in society by fiat when it doesn't get adopted organically.
I can understand that having pronouns or nonbinary or trans characters in games can be a bit of a culture shock. As a culture we're beginning to grow more overall accepting of these people that have been here all along, but never felt comfortable to "be a seen part of society" out of fear. The same sort of thing happened, or is still happening, with homosexuality, though that's further along the acceptance curve than trans/nonbinary.
Eventually it won't be so obviously "woke garbage" that sticks out to you as something noticeable and startling, and it'll be just another feature of the game like anything else, just another NPC like any other, but that one gets called "they" instead of him or her. It takes time for it all to become normalized and not be something you raise eyebrows at and feel upset by. You may always wonder sometimes what gender someone is identifying as when it may not be obvious, but it will become easier to simply ask them, or be okay with not knowing, it's okay to not know.
I'm not going to pretend that mentally working through these things isn't a part of this whole process, but trying to somehow fight back against it by calling it all garbage and refusing to extend the hand to understand where it's all coming from is... inappropriate, we all need to get along, we all live on this planet together and the only way to make it the best it can be is to try and understand each other.
Sure, you may have a point in there about desiring a platform where people can upload any mod they like, and that could totally be a thing, Nexus Mods doesn't want that to be their thing, specifically, and whether you're okay with that or not is your perspective, and I'm okay with that, but you should try and understand why Nexus is taking that stance. Nonbinary and trans people are on the back foot, culturally, so it's clear that many places will take a stand to hard defend their representation because they're so far behind the "biological genders" and could use a helping hand.
Bigroty is not a political opinion. It's just hate.
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@sh.itjust.works
Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
- News oriented content (general reviews, previews or retrospectives allowed).
- Broad discussion posts (preferably not only about a specific game).
- No humor/memes etc..
- No affiliate links
- No advertising.
- No clickbait, editorialized, sensational titles. State the game in question in the title. No all caps.
- No self promotion.
- No duplicate posts, newer post will be deleted unless there is more discussion in one of the posts.
- No politics.
Comments.
- No personal attacks.
- Obey instance rules.
- No low effort comments(one or two words, emoji etc..)
- Please use spoiler tags for spoilers.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
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Wait, the mod removed the option to set a gender in the character editor? Why don't these people just make a male character and be done with it?
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