Sharing my experience: I have found that online, "tankie" just gets thrown at any leftist that "goes too far" authoritarian or not.

Do I agree with the Soviet use of tanks to suppress dissident in Europe in the 19th century? In so far as I wasn't there and therefore don't know fuck all about it: no. Am I going to clamor to distance myself from people who are accused of being tankies on Lemmy, especially if the people making the accusations are soc dems or centerists? Nah. Not engaging with that nonsense.

I've never met someone calling themselves that IRL, but that might be because it's more of a youth thing. I agree that there is a lot more cooperation IRL, which is what's important.

Define "authoritarian" without using the word "authoritarianism" or variations thereof or "totalitarian" or variations thereof.

Since you're using me as an example, my point is about the enormous efforts and resources some organizations pour into increasing voter turnout and electoral strategies over the time-tested and far more effective strategies of actually struggling and organizing. No, an individual taking a couple hours to vote isn't a problem. It's a problem when an organization makes preparing for, canvassing for, advertising for, and organizing for elections their primary focus. That takes far more effort than even week-long strikes, yet it's a common strategy.

The point isn't that individuals shouldn't spend a couple hours to vote. The point is that voting cannot establish socialism, so organizations that pour a ton of resources into electoral campaigns are wasting valuable resources that could be poured into unionizing, organizing tenants, educating cadre, and growing the organization through on-the-ground struggle.

It's intensely dishonest to frame it as opposition to spending a couple hours voting on election day. The entire political theatrics that surround elections is a months-years long process that takes up mountains of resources better spent on growing and organizing than pinning all hopes on candidates being able to change the system from within.

The way they talk about voting you would think its as much effort as having a week long strike.

"The way they respond to me constantly talking about voting, in a thread with a strawman position on what leftists say about voting" would be a more honest portrayal. But you struggle with honesty.

Heres a comment I wrote about why leftists talk about voting as they do

I've said this time and time again. They do not care about Palestinians either. They want people like Trump in charge, because they're just fascists in a different coat of paint and millions or even tens of millions of casualties is completely fine as long as it harms the reputation of a western country, any of them in fact.

the guy is an endless fountain of hasbara, plus you'll call everyone to the left of joe biden a tankie, glass houses

Wild comment. It's woke to dislike genocide now? If we rearrange your words, they make a little bit more sense; "I don't agree with anything zionist."

The word woke doesn't mean anything anymore, so we can let that one slide.

It is called "Memetic warfare" or "5th-generation warfare" and it is as real as MOABs

https://en.wikipedia.org/...

https://www.lineofdeparture.army.mil/...

Define "authoritarian" without using variations of the word or variations of "totalitarian".

This. I was going to ask if MAGA are dangerous.

Information bubbles are dangerous. Tribalism is dangerous.

The antidotes are inclusivity and critical thinking

That’s something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, that’s so hard to come by.

this is exactly why i was originally drawn to browse the hexbear.net/c/news. living in the US the corporate run media maintains pretty tight control over narratives. i prefer to know as much as i can of the entire picture and decide for myself.

none of the orgs i'm in are even dem cent. it's a framework for organizing which i think fits a particular type of moment, but is not without its issues outside of those moments.

Just to spare you some sanity as I've told others -- and you're probably already well aware -- most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. In other words, they literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sock-puppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don't waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish, but many of them get a paycheck from dragging you into comments (if aren't actual zealots themselves). You never know. though -- it could just come down to them thinking, "Hammer & Sickle cool!" or something.

I'm all for exploring other ideologies; but that tends to stop short of ends-justify-means utopic fantasy whereby many are oppressed; when there are double-standards when geopolitically-expedient for the likes of what is occurring in Gaza, but conveniently not for what is happening in Ukraine, to Uyghurs, to Tibetan Buddhist monks, to Hong Kong democratic protesters, to Taiwanese sovereignty in blatant imperial conquest.

"blind following" Yeah alright, sorry for reading something, relating it to what I know, investigating its claims, find them to be well-founded and the arguments to stand up to reason, and therefore I decide to incorporate it into my worldview. I suppose a much better method would be to read falsehoods written by someone the CIA decided to fund or whoever you want.

I would ask you; have you ever listened to an MLs response to these things? I could do that if you want.

But, I think you're confusing the moderation of an instance to maintain intelligent discourse with a conclusion of "they are denying facts"

I'll give an analogy. If it helps.

Do you think a person posting "black crime statistics" in any "left leaning" sub would be taken seriously? Would that sub explain to every individual person the relationship of poverty, the relationship of policing black neighborhoods, the relationship of the for profit prison systems? The war on drugs, etc etc etc.

No, they would offer resources to these things. But the sub is not meant to be a place where "technically" style Ben Shapiro types are given a voice. They get banned.

Those types of people would not be welcome in any "liberal" space. They are not there to engage in conversation. They are there to say "black people are criminals".

This is the same type of perspective that most MLs have on China or otherwise. It is not that we have a cult like view of China or other historically socialist projects.

So, yeah, maybe you got banned. But you were probably the 1000th person posting "statistics" that was never looking to hear the response.

Maybe you were. Maybe you were sincere in asking. But an ML run instance is not the place to learn that. It's a place for discourse and criticism between people that already have a certain level of agreement in how they analyze the world (dialectical materialism being that method). At least on the level of being able to understand why the equivalent of "black on black crime" is conservative garbage.

If you got this far. I'll gladly address what you linked. And my analogy is not 1to1. I have major criticisms of China when it comes to labor. But, we need to establish a level of understanding if you are actually interested in another persons perspective.

If not. That's fine. But, you're not in .ml. I am trying to have a good faith interpretation of your points. You will get that from good people from .ml OUTSIDE of .ml.

There literally isn't and you literally won't.
But surely you must have overwhelming amounts of proof for these claims, which you can readily present, since it is so common. I mean if it is so common as you make it out to be, then it should be probable without any effort at all really.

In my general experience what happens is someone like you comes in, says some bullshit, gets challenged on it, you throw a tantrum, after about 20 comments you finally do a brief Google, whereafter you pull up a source you've only skimmed yourself, you then receive context to the source and this makes you even more pissy to the point you drop the act and just throw out some variation of bigotry, then you get banned. Then you think "oh wow, you get banned just for mentioning Tiananmen Square!" even though you dont. You get banned for behaving like an asshole, like you do most places.

this study...

found that migrant workers in China had good health. Overall, migrant workers engage in excessive overtime work to increase their income, despite the harm it causes to their health, and overtime work is more serious in the male groups. Income and labor market institutions are more important factors than health for migrant workers’ labor supply decisions. If there are fewer restrictions on workers’ work time choices and they can arrange their work more flexibly, the observed result should be that people with worse health should reduce their working time. So, the impact of health on the working hours of migrant workers depends on the labor market system. Income plays a compensatory role in the relationship between health and working hours and also serves as an incentive for workers to invest more time in their jobs. However, this effect is ineffective for workers who engage in excessive overtime work, where the health deterioration exceeds the compensatory effect of income on health. These findings enrich the literature on the interpretation of the relationship between health, welfare, and working hours among migrants.

I really would love to understand where this idea that "Marxist Leninist = Putin supporter"

Marxist Leninist (myself included) hate Putin. Putin is literally the embodiment of western neoliberalism in post Soviet Russia. He was literally installed and supported by western aligned oligarchs and capitalist within Russia.

I really am curious where you get this idea. I'd love receipts. I really hope it's not just "MLs criticize NATO". I really really hope it's not just a binary view of the world like that. I swear people view the world like it's a football match.

Do you think Russia is still run by MLs?

who have been working to undermine Europe on behalf of russia.

literally zero evidence of this other than a lot of loud people with hurt feelings online.

'saying they want to disclose'

here's what OP thinks

i'm a trans anarchist who happened to land on this server out of sheer fucking happenstance almost 4 years ago, part of why i havent bothered to leave is because it's always the most overt fascists getting really mad about a fucking posting server.

It's a Marxist-Leninist wiki, and the pages I linked are just the ML positions on what constitutes a nation and what we mean by self-determination. It isn't even something like a current or historical event that might draw contention, it's just an explanation of what Marxists believe theoretically.

If you really want to own us and laugh at us then you should consider reading the texts in cowbees introductionary reading list that would really own him and be so funny!

Couldn't read two sentences :( reading is hard

We both knew what this was. we didn't comment on this trash meme to talk to eachother

You aware he's likely Danish? US exceptionalism at work even in this argument

Ah, the ol Schrodinger's Nazi trick. It was just a joke. As soon as how fucked up it is was called out.

I'm an outspoken critic of his sex pestness.

That policy is about standardising the transliteration and data entry of names? I still know more than one person who self identifies as Mohammed(穆罕默德) [Surname]. So I'm simply going to take them at their word. Also interesting you picked out specifically the security bureau and avoided the fact it was a list terms compiled by religious leaders and others for all relevant agencies including health, family planning and more.

Whataboutism isn't real it's simply fun to poke fun at the people who use accusations of "whataboutism" as a shield to avoid comparative arguments by asking about it in that manner when the opportunity presents itself.

I also didn't start by calling Europeans Nazis I started by making a joke about Europeans making lists of undesirables, the Nazis is only one instance of that long held tradition (especially if you want to count EuroAmerikans and their escapades during and after WW2, McCarthyism, etc). Also I very much meant the /s I am not shocked at all by it.

You don't see how making lists of "undesirables" to enact "justice" upon is reminiscent?

My question was not "What could happen that would make you stop supporting them", it was "What could they (as in the party itself) do that would make you stop supporting them".

MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.

I actually don't. If you're a leftist, your electoral front should definitely not be represented by the Democratic Party. And it doesn't matter that it's a "last resort", it has never worked and it will continue to fail.

Answer the question.

Also, what are you even talking about? Where have they shilled for the republicans?

"DUUHHHH UR A REPUBLIKAAN DUHHH" 😂

Great rebuttal jackass. You're really showcasing the intellectual integrity of an average Democrat. Are you going to answer the question or not?

Demonstrably they fight for all the same people and none of them are you or me. Dems are just Republicans with pride flags. They support every single evil thing just the same but mildly better optics (sometimes).

A negotiated settlement is the best path forward for the Ukrainian people, who have been used by NATO countries as a battering ram to encircle and oppose Russia. This is not a "pro-Russia" stance, it's a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure "peace is war" doublespeak on your part.

NSPM-7 is a real program targeting any organization against the capitalist state. This isn't a "victim complex," it's the real present day state repressions.

I’m not sure about the “selctive” part other than, as you say, avoiding what sounds like sending the wealthier people to war. They’re using mercenaries (or at least foreign “voluneers”), conscripts that force Ukrainians to fight their own people, jailed criminals, pretty much anyone they can send that doesn’t have enough clout to cause a stir. Plenty of russians have fled the country that could afford to do so, and more will follow.