My wife has to be up at 4am for her job, which means I'm up that early most days too. It isn't a choice that we want to. But it is a social life killer. You invite me to arrive at your house on a Tuesday at 7 for an evening of dinner and games or something, the answer is probably going to be no.

No, they're seen as more productive because they are more productive. Being a night owl means you're drunk/high and gaming.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Long live the second mouses!

Yup, and chirping their morning call.

"PiTtEr PaTtEr LeT's GeT aTtEr!!1"

As an act of rebellion and as an early worm, I just give them the bird

Bum worms.

This attitude is maddening. I am diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome that will turn into a non 24 hour rhythm if I let it. I've worked with sleep doctors all over the country, most recently Duke.

I'm lucky that my work lets me start at 11am, I don't get enough sleep those days but better than it could be.

Unfortunately I'm on call every other week, so forcing my clock to reset isn't an option. It takes me 6 to 10 weeks to get to societies ideal sleep schedule, and a single night of interrupted sleep to undo all that work

The weeks I'm not on call are my weeks with my daughter, who has to be at school at 730 and there's no bus for her to ride.

Either week, my schedule is fucked and I'm in a haze all the time. Helpfully anyone who finds out about it just tells me to excercise more (makes no difference, ive done a lot of testing and exclusion), stop caffeine (tried it), stop using screens of any kind after work (been there), or any other thing that they think I am doing wrong and causing the problem.

I did not expect to rant that much... I completely agree, science means nothing in the face of feelings and preconceived notions.

It's not only about being tired enough to fall asleep early. If I stick to a 10pm-6am sleep schedule I feel exhausted during the day, and by early afternoon I'll be falling asleep. It's like being jetlagged permanently; my body simply doesn't want to keep to that schedule. It's not just an "oh, you need to stick to the schedule long enough to adapt and get into a proper routine" situation either - it's something I struggled with for years while I was in school and university, despite getting enough sleep.

It's amazing how much better and more energetic I feel - physically and mentally - now I'm able to keep to a sleep schedule that suits me. Obviously exercising is a good thing, but early/delayed sleep phase syndrome are real things.

wow! i'm sure the neuroscientist-sleep expert never thought of that! he should have checked with you.

If I worked a physically intensive job from 8-4 you can be sure as shit I'd be dead asleep by 10pm at the latest.

I think this is a good point, even if unpoppular. Physical activity can help a lot with sleeping. Colleagues, please, notice there's "many of us", not "all of us" in the comment before you downvote.

and many of us stay up too late for no reason.

You had a 27 HOURS SHIFT ???

That ain’t healthy bro. You can’t catch up on sleep.

Christ I hate you people. You think everyone is a morning person, some people are just lazy about it. You are literally incapable of imagining that other people are not like you.

Or figure out something that doesnt require you to be up that early?? There is science out there that there are genuinely "morning people" and "night owls", setting an alarm is a fine thing to do but it literally is in opposition to some people biology. I have been fortunate in my line of work (nursing, where shifts are usually either 7am or 7pm start times) to find a shift that starts and noon and ends at mid night, perfect for me.

Excellent use of your empathy there.

If I have to do it so should everybody mentality.

If some humans can handle lactose and others can’t. Some suffer from migraines whilst others don’t etc. you don’t think it’s possible that we also have different circadian rhythms.

Perhaps you could exercise some critical thought. Maybe go read any of the various studies on sleep and make an informed decision rather than a knee jerk reaction.

Also, positive intent. Just assume people are being truthful for the most part. Life is easier if you’re not looking to shit on people.

Why does making things fair for everyone mean punishing the currently privileged people to you?

Adapting a system to suit more people when it exclusively suits you will always feel like oppression. In reality it is letting others enjoy the privilege that you already enjoy

What's it like being so willfully wrong?

So if I set my alarm earlier than I will turn it off and wait for my emergency alarm to go off.

I should got into bed earlier: well it might work but I am just not tired then. If I go to bed at 10 or 11 pm I will just stay awake for hours in my bed.

Luckily I have wfh and don't have to attend meetings before 10 am. Sometimes I get out of bed 10 minutes before 10 and I still feel tired.

you do not exist

you are simply trolling

block and don't reply

google coal mining swing shifts. Fucking ridiculous! 2 day shifts, 1 off, 2 night, 1 off, 3 day, 1 off, 3 night, 4 off, repeat.

Sounds like something a vampire would say or a southerner

One of the best shows I have seen was Sun Ra and his Arkestra opening for Sonic Youth in Central Park July 4th 1992. The show started in the afternoon.

Wow, that sounds pretty awesome ngl

How have you coped?

An introverts wet dream 👌

Healthier than a night owl being forced to wake up early, yes.

cope and seethe early-birdbrain

Buisness hours are 9-5 in most countries I'm familiar with

Getting mad that someone calls you after 8pm? That's not even late you noob. Business hours. 8am isn't normal business hours. Lazy fatass.

Useless boomer

You've gotta kill yourself dude. For the good of all of us.

Whoever downvoted is in deep denial lmao

Luckily I work for a great company where the culture is generally "we don't care when you do your work as long as you do it", so I don't have many larks around me with that flawed mindset anymore. But I do emphasize it when I get the chance!

For all of middle school, I would to wake up at 4:30 to catch the bus that arrived anytime between 5:30 and 6:25 to get to school at 7:15. And i wonder why my sleep is so fucked today, and why I was always too tired to focus on anything back then.

I used to play this balance, but it's honestly just as much effort to work hard as it is to pretend to work. Instead, I work throughout my work hours, and built the trust to have flexibility when needed.

Oh I definitely get to see them in the morning, briefly. But I would prefer to not to sleep during the nights at all, and just stay up all night with my telescope. My job has just forced my circadian rhythm over to this.

That is absolutely true... However, in my experience it's far less common than the widely accepted loud morning noises.

My dogs are very stubborn and very stupid. One of them failed training. The other one can't even learn to sit.

Honestly, I'm so used to it at this point that I kind of look forward to quiet time when I can just sit with the naughty little dog in my lap and read the news, check forums, etc. before work.

If I go to sleep early, I just lie there until it's my usual sleep time. My body is very stubborn about it.

Fuckin morning people always do this. "I know, I know, everything you're saying makes logical sense, but listen, just hear me out on this...maybe...you're just lazy"

I also manage to wake up before my alarm clock with 1-30 minutes (achieved via programming), with alarm times varying from 5.30 am to 7 am depending on what needs doing that day, but it's still physically painful and mentally unpleasant. I'm basically running on autopilot until about noon. Oddly enough, if I manage to get a decent amount of sleep and wake up at something like 2 am, it's awesome, but falling asleep at 5-6 in the afternoon is slightly difficult.

I cannot remember a single instance in my whole life when I woke up in the morning and thought 'heh, fully rested and full of energy. what a wonderful morning!'. I cannot understand people able to get up earlier and do stuff like go running, before work. Hell, I shower at night to save time in the morning (and because getting into bed full of day-stuff is just icky). Going on holidays is also mildly unpleasant because hotels usually offer breakfast up to 10 am (11 in the weekend). I wish they'd offer brunch as well.

Absolutely, but most of the time humans are very very similar. For example take the whole "fast metabolism" crap, the real difference is like 100-150 kcal a day. That's one slice of toast pretty much.

If you look at the past we didn't have (much) artificial light. Humans were up during sunlight and went to bed when it got dark. With an hour or two of fucking in the middle of the night before sleeping again.

Just based on biology it makes zero sense for someone to be a pure night owl (as in being mostly awake at night). A few hours of time shift? Sure, I can see that. But our main problem is modern living, artificial lights, too much stimulation in the evening, not enough movement, ..

If you cut someone off from all artificial light I'd bet you they'd go to bed earlier on their own.

Or being under 35.

Or... this person is just a gamer and plays until it's way too late at night because they work during the day

Got them too

A good amount of garbage collection at commercial businesses happens during the night.

Gotta wake up at 2am to be ready.

Yes this is me. Morning is just to figure out what the hell is going on, avoid anything that requires brain power until the system spins up around noon.

I think it changes over time as well. There was a time when I stayed up late and woke later. That felt like the right thing to do at the time but since getting into my 40s I tend to sleep a bit less and wake earlier. Sleep is also much more fragile, I've had bouts of insomnia and I need to be careful with caffeine and alcohol. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing I can do for executive function, I'll just stare into space all day.

Office people always forget that people who don't work in offices exist

Yeah?

Honestly, time before work is wasted for me. Yes, sure, I can clean or workout, but I can't do anything leisurely and I'll just be waiting for work to start.

I meant on average. It makes more sense to do things when it’s lit outside than when it’s dark.

That's no moon...

The person who made the tweet is in their early 20s. They're not on night shift work.

Enjoy!

Enjoy!

Oatmeal raisin please!

Enjoy never seeing the sun and your cool friends!

That's your choice. Not the rest of the world's problem that you chose to work nights and think that somehow you're a victim.