Why all of a sudden tech companies are not being favorable to their users?

3 years ago by 65gmexl3 to c/nostupidquestions

YouTube disallowing adblockers, Reddit charging for API usage, Twitter blocking non-registered users. These events happen almost at the same time. Is this one of the effects of the tech bubble burst?

Rinox 596 points 3 years ago

I think it's a consequence of higher interest rates drying up VC money, meaning that tech companies now have to actually be profitable, rather than just grow.

If the plan was grow now, profit later, then later has come

path: 0 727813, hotness: undefined, score: 596, children: 46
InverseParallax 140 points 3 years ago

Nailed it, investors are demanding profit increases, it's not just interest rates (though they're the main reason) but also the corporate tax cuts in 2018 basically dumped a ton of profit onto corporations because they repatriated all their offshore cash they'd been hoarding.

That bump lasted 2 years, but the expectation of higher revenue is still there, it doesn't matter if you got lucky at slots last month, if you make your normal salary this month investors will be absolutely pissed.

path: 0 727813 728086, hotness: undefined, score: 140, children: 5
insomniac 37 points 3 years ago

This sounds too stupid to be real but I was working for one of the largest corporations in the world during this period and we were congratulated on 20% growth even though we did nothing. Of course we didn’t get an extra bonus or anything but they acted like we had an incredible year when we really just had an average year with a massive tax cut.

Then the next year, our goal was to grow at 20% again and when we missed it by 17%, no one got a bonus or raise.

This timeline is the stupid one.

path: 0 727813 728086 756928, hotness: undefined, score: 37, children: 4
EddieTee77 6 points 3 years ago

This is what irritates me. You still made money just not as much as you wanted or hoped so your company punishes you. You can't have infinite growth

path: 0 727813 728086 756928 796179, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 1
thanks_shakey_snake 3 points 3 years ago

You can't have infinite growth

Every publicly-traded company: "Hold my beer"

path: 0 727813 728086 756928 796179 2127629, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
orphiebaby 2 points 3 years ago

Capitalism: "Numbers go brrrrr"

path: 0 727813 728086 756928 2342564, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Bautznersenf 1 point 3 years ago

Most companies really are that retarded because everyone wants to look good and take credit for every great thing happening. People like that should not be in charge of anything.

path: 0 727813 728086 756928 813531, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
AgentOrange 116 points 3 years ago

This is also a great example of why higher interest rates aren't automatically a terrible thing. In general, it's probably a good sign for the economy that companies are expected to be profitable. Means resources are being used well. The limitless VC money kinda meant any dumb idea regardless of merit got funding.

path: 0 727813 728913, hotness: undefined, score: 116, children: 25
MsPenguinette 118 points 3 years ago

I wish we lived in a society where not everything needed to be profitable. People deserve treats and sucks to have things that made our lives better go awake because shareholders demand money

path: 0 727813 728913 729445, hotness: undefined, score: 118, children: 16
cynar 28 points 3 years ago

There are a number of ways things can function that way. Unfortunately, they don't scale well.

This is part of my hope of federalisation, it lets a group of small entities act as a single large entity. It also lets non-profit and profit making work together. The for-profit provide the brute force, the non-profits keep them from going off the rails too far. It might be the workaround we need.

Also, be the change you want. For-profit businesses often win due to the far better returns. More people are willing to pour the effort into a business that could make them rich than a charity that never will.

path: 0 727813 728913 729445 730682, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 0
assassin_aragorn 14 points 3 years ago

I think we'd see loads of improvements if the philosophy went from "be as profitable as possible" to "just be profitable". You're 15% lower than last year, but still profiting? That's just a smaller bonus for all employees and a smaller dividend for the investors, after putting a healthy amount of it into savings.

There's no concept of "enough". That's the big problem. It goes for both economics and career advancement. There doesn't always have to be a "higher". It's okay to say "it isn't worth it to go further".

path: 0 727813 728913 729445 753007, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0
AlmightySnoo 10 points 3 years ago

Whether we like the ongoing enshittification of Reddit or not, I think it's fair that shareholders expect a return on their investment and they have the right to pressure spez to seek aggressive monetization of the platform.

That problem wouldn't have existed if Reddit was a non-profit though, like the Wikimedia Foundation.

path: 0 727813 728913 729445 729686, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 12
hellequin67 35 points 3 years ago

expect a return on their investment and they have the right to pressure spez to seek aggressive monetization of the platform.

Whilst I agree that investors have everybright to expect a return on investment I think this could have been resolved and a number of ways which didn't include alienating a large proportion of the user base.

path: 0 727813 728913 729445 729686 730018, hotness: undefined, score: 35, children: 11
tool 2 points 3 years ago

I don't think the problem is so much profitability as it is the demand/expectation for endless growth. It becomes a positive feedback loop and is completely unsustainable after a certain point.

You know what else is endless growth? Cancer.

path: 0 727813 728913 729445 764001, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
BullsOnParade 21 points 3 years ago

Yeah this is critical. These promises for money later mean that all sorts of stupid ideas were being funded, and therefore people hired, etc, but now that's coming to a close. Companies and investors will be more likely to scrutinize spending (as they should) and see how to rightsize with reality and line of sight to profit. For significantly more complex reasons, it's similar to an individual borrowing themselves into crazy debt, and banks eventually determining that they need more than credit/promises to keep seeding you cash.

Time to pay back some promises.

path: 0 727813 728913 729299, hotness: undefined, score: 21, children: 0
AlmightySnoo 17 points 3 years ago

any dumb idea regardless of merit got funding

That's still the case and high interest rates haven't really fixed that because they are still not high enough. Just look at how any company mentioning "AI" in their earnings call gets extra billions in market cap overnight without having a real product yet.

path: 0 727813 728913 729361, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 0
pulaskiwasright 4 points 3 years ago

This seems like a non sequitur: what is good about only profitable ventures getting funding? These unprofitable ventures were creating good jobs and providing enjoyable and sometimes useful products to consumers for low prices. So why is it good that funding is drying up?

path: 0 727813 728913 730045, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
andyster 3 points 3 years ago

It doesn’t seem completely crazy to me that it would be better for money to go to successful projects than just be sprayed like a fire hose in hope that you land a Facebook or Google sized moonshot.

Of course it sucks for the people that lose their job, but presumably that money should go towards sustainably growing things where they could work.

path: 0 727813 728913 730045 744577, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
damnYouSun 3 points 3 years ago

That rather assumes that it actually matters that VC money is being wasted.

After all it keeps the money in circulation and keeps people employed. They then get paid and will then buy useful things from companies that do make profit, so in the end it all works out. It's only bad for the investors, but that's always been the thing about investment, it's always been a risk, and it's never been guaranteed.

path: 0 727813 728913 733380, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3
Confused_Idol 3 points 3 years ago

If the goal is simply to keep money circulating and people employed, there are more efficient ways to do that.

Reddit, as a whole only has about 2000 employees.

path: 0 727813 728913 733380 734352, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
bionicjoey 6 points 3 years ago

"only 2000 employees" Reddit should have maybe 200 employees. 2000 is an insane number of people for a single relatively simple piece of software.

path: 0 727813 728913 733380 734352 735182, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 1
zos_kia 51 points 3 years ago

No. I don't mean to be rude but most of that message is wrong.

VC Money is very much not drying up. 2023 has seen record rounds in most markets. What is drying up is "VC Money for early stage startups with no revenue, no traction, and barely a functional idea", but even that is not new it has been going on since at least 2018. Remember that guy who raised 1.5M$ with an app that just let you say "Yo" to your contacts ? That was 10 years ago. Those times are dead and buried.

Then the link between VC markets health and interest rates is... contentious to say the least. VCs don't borrow money - they raise funds from family offices and individual investors, every 2 or 3 years. So every change to the financial landscape will have a progressive effect over 3 years, not a brutal one after a few months. Also you have to bear in mind that the people who bankroll VCs are looking for performance of at least 2X over 10 years. Interests would have to go up to 7% to even be in competition with VC investment. Of course there's a psychological aspect to investment so the effet is not ZERO but it's not as automatic as saying "interest go up => vc dry up".

Finally, the companies we are talking about are in vastly different situations and not necessarily looking for VC money. There is no explaining their behaviour with a single cause, what we're seeing is probably a cluster effect, because executives are like fish they always follow the movement of the other fish in their field.

  • Youtube has been profitable for years and is part of Google which is massively profitable. VC Money has no bearing on their decisions - they are in a quasi-monopoly with no credible competition and want to squeeze their users out of greed
  • Reddit has a long and complicated cap table including some very powerful institutional investors so they are aiming at an IPO rather than more VC money. They're in a pretty good place actually with 1.5 billion MAU, and in the process of shaking off the 10% of hardcore users who are super hostile to monetization. Their monetization is so low (<2$/month/user, when the competition is 10 to 20 times higher) that they could bear to lose 50% of their userbase and still make bank with the remaining ones. They don't need VC money right now.
  • Twitter is... uh... well there's no telling what Elon is up to but he is absolutely not raising any VC money especially after the shit he's pulled off since the buy-off. I think it's just a bunch of bad moves because he's inept at the social media game.
path: 0 727813 731634, hotness: undefined, score: 51, children: 12
dhork 16 points 3 years ago

Their monetization is so low (<2$/month/user, when the competition is 10 to 20 times higher) that they could bear to lose 50% of their userbase and still make bank with the remaining ones.

What's left unsaid here (but I'm sure you realize) is that these same users whose monetization is so low also provide most of the content and moderation on the site. When you spread out the value of that among the (human) userbase, the total value returned to Reddit by each human is higher.

Steve thought he was targeting the AI with this move, but in reality he has been charging his most engaged users. If he's upset that Apollo has turned a profit, the correct move was to acknowledge that one guy has done a better job than Reddit's team, not tell all the users that Apollo helped bring to Reddit that they were no longer welcome

path: 0 727813 731634 737403, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 1
zos_kia 12 points 3 years ago

I think they're operating under the assumption that there is no shortage of people willing to work for clout on a leading social media. They think the users they lose are replaceable and you know what it's not an unreasonable expectation. It sucks but that's just the way it is, there will always be people willing to post memes and delete nazi comments.

Only time will tell, but it's not uncommon to kick out power users when they get uppity and think they run your platform. Way easier/cheaper to fire unpaid volunteers than tech-bros with Silicon Valley salaries.

path: 0 727813 731634 737403 738390, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
suspecm 6 points 3 years ago

I'm not so sure about Google nowadays. What started out as an everyday product killing, ended up as the first of many. They killed Stadia from one day to the other, and then started to basically sell and kill everything that is not massively profitable to the point they sold their domain distribution as well to Squarespace. That does not seem like something a massive monopoly with no regards to investor opinion does.

path: 0 727813 731634 737628, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 3
zos_kia 3 points 3 years ago

Well i don't know about that. They still generate 15B$ in profit every quarter. Sure they're losing some growth, but even amid a historic advertising budget bust they are still beating expectations.

When i mentioned their monopolistic position i was talking more specifically about Youtube, but anyway buying and killing off products is standard operating procedure for a company this size on a market this mature. There's nothing alarming about Google's health.

path: 0 727813 731634 737628 738207, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
BelEnd 4 points 3 years ago

99% of their profit comes from their search engine ad revenue though. Google has only ever had one truly profitable product and the advent of chatgpt, driven by their only true rival in Microsoft, has them scared shitless. They are way behind in the AI department and it's the only thing out their that fundamentally threatens Googles goose with the golden eggs: their search engine.

path: 0 727813 731634 737628 738207 739064, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
cryball 4 points 3 years ago

Couldn't it be argued that it's a mistake from reddit to think of themselves as being comparable to platforms that make more money per user?

For example reddit and youtube are completely different in terms of the nature of the platform. Could attempting to monetize an average reddit user to the level of those using youtube might be a mistake? Keep in mind that reddit has much lower overhead for keeping the service running.

The mental image I'm going after is a country that exports mainly wheat arguing that its' exports should be valued the same as a country that produces complex electronics. The products are at a different realm of complexity. Commodities should be valued for what they are and not be confused with higly refined products.

path: 0 727813 731634 763529, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
zos_kia 2 points 3 years ago

Couldn’t it be argued that it’s a mistake from reddit to think of themselves as being comparable to platforms that make more money per user?

You're right it could very much be argued. I mean isn't that the whole underlying question ? I would imagine that anybody who invests in reddit has the assumption that yes, you can monetize comparably to other platforms. Or even cut the pear in half and sit comfortably at 10$/user which would already be a fucking money printer at >400M MAU.

Now whether they are right or wrong in their thesis is anybody's guess. Even after the recent debacle reddit is still in a very good position, but social media is such a clown world that you can never really tell.

path: 0 727813 731634 763529 787036, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
SixTrickyBiscuits 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah I think with a net income of $60 billion annually Google is a wee bit past needing VC money lol.

path: 0 727813 731634 787226, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
zos_kia 3 points 3 years ago

Google in panic mode cause they don't know if they'll be able to close their 10M$ round from local VCs 😱

path: 0 727813 731634 787226 787910, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
SixTrickyBiscuits 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 727813 731634 787152, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
SixTrickyBiscuits 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 727813 731634 787273, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
leanleft 1 point 3 years ago

maybe inflation.
just because U don't see a price tag doesnt mean its not there.
if you cant see the product, then you are the product!
the state of wellbeing had never really been that great to start.

path: 0 727813 7004576, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
sknob 277 points 3 years ago path: 0 728572, hotness: undefined, score: 277, children: 32
TheGreenGhost 95 points 3 years ago

This concept is also why I’m so hopeful for federated software. The federated model means that there’s no single instance that holds all the power. Many of these instances are run by admins of their own kindness and initiative. And at worst, if any instance were to start being “enshittified,” people could easily move to another instance and continue participating in the greater network.

Between all of what we’ve seen unfold in the last few months, and even weeks, on Twitter and Reddit, it’s safe to say that “enshittification” could be reaching critical mass. That’s why I came here, after all, and I’m looking forward to seeing this community simply persist here on the web.

path: 0 728572 730412, hotness: undefined, score: 95, children: 22
bionicjoey 32 points 3 years ago

My fear is that even if you're correct, as the internet monoliths that have been built on the past decade fall to federated software, we will lose forever an immeasurable amount of arts and culture that has been stockpiled in these corporate spaces. Think of all the great educational YouTubers whose videos won't be able to be passed on to whatever the next thing is if YouTube collapses.

path: 0 728572 730412 731744, hotness: undefined, score: 32, children: 20
nuachtan 21 points 3 years ago

I think I can understand your point. Large ‘“media” companies will horde the content and refuse to let it see the light of day because they believe they own it. I don’t think that’s how it would go down. Anything I’ve ever produced to be put on the web still exists somewhere on a hard drive that I control. I doubt the big name educational YouTubers are deleting the source material as soon as it goes up to YouTube.

Besides, a lot of the good ones have already moved to Nebula as well. If thought like educational YouTube you should check it out.

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732877, hotness: undefined, score: 21, children: 5
bionicjoey 10 points 3 years ago

Educational YouTube was just an example. But there is a real danger of culturally important media being lost. See cases like the Operation Soda Steal video

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732877 733055, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 4
YourHuckleberry 6 points 3 years ago

Those folks will re-upload old content onto the new platforms. I know people don't like to talk about money, especially in relation to the fediverse, but it's important. If you want someone to dedicate a large portion of their energy into making high-quality content, it's not unreasonable for them to want to make money doing it. How can we get money into the hands of content creators without allowing centralized control of the content?

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732711, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
YourHuckleberry 3 points 3 years ago

Those folks will re-upload old content onto the new platforms.

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732442, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 12
Dr_Cog 9 points 3 years ago

Unfortunately, this isn't likely to happen. Video files are huge (tens or hundreds of gigabytes) and many creators delete old videos once they are uploaded to Youtube so that they don't run out of space or keep having to buy more and more drive space. Even tech YouTubers like MKBHD pull clips from their old videos directly off YouTube because they no longer have the originals (he did a podcast talking about this)

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732442 732944, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 3
bionicjoey 4 points 3 years ago

Not all of them. What about the ones who are no longer active on the platform? The ones people forgot about? The ones who have died? You think there will be 100% coverage? In the case of YouTube, many channel operators don't actually keep a local copy of all their videos, since the files would be too big. So the only copy is the one on YouTube.

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732442 732961, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 6
nuachtan 1 point 3 years ago

Patreon?

path: 0 728572 730412 731744 732442 732899, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
mysoulishome 3 points 3 years ago

Love this take

path: 0 728572 730412 731784, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
ccunix 63 points 3 years ago

Original on Cory Doctorow's own site here

path: 0 728572 729516, hotness: undefined, score: 63, children: 1
slipperydippery 5 points 3 years ago

Thanks dirty looking the original article, that was a great read!

path: 0 728572 729516 731827, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
NewEnglandRedshirt 38 points 3 years ago

Jesus. It's articles like this that make me both be thankful for Doctorow and his ability to put tech shit in terms is non-techies can understand.

path: 0 728572 729116, hotness: undefined, score: 38, children: 2
at_an_angle 25 points 3 years ago

I find it fitting that an article on enshitification is so hard to read because of enshitification on the site.

path: 0 728572 729116 729467, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 0
hitmyspot 12 points 3 years ago

Seeing boing boing articles in my Twitter feed was one of the reasons I started using it years ago. When junk started filtering in, that’s when I stopped using it. When musk started messing with politics and using Twitter to push his views, that’s when I nuked it.

path: 0 728572 729116 729669, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
theragu40 15 points 3 years ago

That is one of the best summaries of the Internet I've ever read. Maybe the best. That is quite the article, thanks for sharing.

path: 0 728572 729928, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0
ThatsDrSpaceJunk2U 13 points 3 years ago

That was an excellent article. Thanks for sharing!

path: 0 728572 729382, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
1st 8 points 3 years ago

That was fantastic- sums up the stages pretty well

path: 0 728572 731482, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
Tigbitties 3 points 3 years ago

Good read. Thanks.

path: 0 728572 743769, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
wildekek 146 points 3 years ago

Venture capital has shifted very quickly from companies HOSTING content to companies SCRAPING content (LLM’s). This means renting compute is now very expensive and moving into the hands of ‘AI’ companies. It’s like trying to fly a plane while monkeys are tearing the wings of.

path: 0 750989, hotness: undefined, score: 146, children: 2
TrueStoryBob 17 points 3 years ago

That plus interest rates are going up. For twenty years VC's has near limitless cheap loans, now they've got to be marginally more careful than before and the companies which grew large but only ever broke even (if that) now need to pivot to profitability to justify all the debt they took on. Would not be surprised if Uber and Lyft start really hiking rates soon.

path: 0 750989 760586, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 1
MargotRobbie 3 points 3 years ago

I think most taxi companies have adapted, so they are pretty competitive now.

path: 0 750989 760586 762117, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
XanXic 135 points 3 years ago

I'd say because it's in the air. Obviously companies watch each other. Like the layoffs in January. The initial wave was the companies that needed to do it and had been planning it for awhile. Then when there was blood in the water everyone was doing it because then they aren't big mean company, they are just another company doing layoffs right now. Lost in the crowd. It's already come out some companies did it purely because big companies like Twitter and Google did it.

But we are seeing a big increase in anti-consumer moves because there seems to be no backlash. Like there's the vocal minority, but it seems by and large a huge amount of the customers for these tech companies are unwilling to move away.

Every time Twitter does something some move off Twitter, and they get such growth! But then eventually stuff like Mastadon's activity has a noticeable decline over time and Twitter carries on. Some people go back, some quit Twitter entirely. But these are fractions of a percentage probably. They still have the biggest celebrities and a crap ton of users.

Netflix just cracked down on password sharing, in a move that people were calling foolish. The outcry was everywhere and anytime Netflix was mentioned was 20 comments saying they cancelled that day. But subscriptions are up, Netflix won.

YouTube has been pushing more and more ads on users, there isn't as big as a direct backlash. Like there was more outcry on removing the dislike button. Which...no one cares now lol. But YouTube pushing's more ads, and they don't seem to be loosing money for it. I'm sure they are trying to find the 'breaking point' for customers. But either people really are willing to put up with 2 30second unskippable ads every 5 minutes or premuim subscriptions are skyrocketing as they ruin the free experience.

WB killed a ton of shows outright, basically burned a bunch of media and shuttered a ton of HBO Max's staff. People upset... Twitter all a buzz. Now it's back to HBO is the best streaming service (Which it is lol)

Like it just keeps going. I think it's just a combination of companies making terrible blunders steal the spotlight from each other and society as a whole has a 3 day memory. The Reddit protests are already cold news because Twitter just DDOS'd itself. People who saw all this with Reddit and call it disgusting moves by the company and the unspoken bond is broken, always end their diatribe with something like "Well I'll just use old.Reddit with an ad blocker" like they are winning when they still provide Reddit with their usage.

People like us who walk away and move to spots like this are the minority of a minority. It's up in the air how many will stay and how many will slowly forget their outrage at Reddit and go back.

path: 0 728813, hotness: undefined, score: 135, children: 4
veroxii 48 points 3 years ago

People! What a bunch of bastards!

path: 0 728813 729413, hotness: undefined, score: 48, children: 0
5redie8 4 points 3 years ago

Thanks for putting this into words, so frustrating but true. People just can't be assed to care if it means a mild inconvenience for themselves.

path: 0 728813 731462, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
depressed_submissive 3 points 3 years ago

It’s up in the air how many will stay and how many will slowly forget their outrage at Reddit and go back.

If I wasn't already that truth would make me depressed.

path: 0 728813 731424, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
MisterMoo 2 points 3 years ago

Agreed. These companies learned that internet outrage is generally indicative of nothing actionable.

path: 0 728813 745965, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
thawed_caveman 124 points 3 years ago

As discussed here:

Honestly they do it so consistently that i’m starting to wonder if they have a choice.

A common way to do things for tech startups is that they get venture capital funds, use them to run the business at a loss hoping to acquire market dominance, and then use market dominance to turn a profit. I think a lot of tech startups that we know are currently in phase 2, meaning they’ve thrown money out the window for years and are now trying to recoup their investments.

Also, Reddit wants to go public and Twitter already is. This is relevant because investors are animals, all they see is short-term profit, and they use their voting power to make the company behave that way.

There’s a common thread between both my theories: it’s shareholder capitalism. I say this as a lifelong shareholder myself, shareholders ruin everything.

path: 0 734548, hotness: undefined, score: 124, children: 8
erre 49 points 3 years ago

If interest rates are high, I'm sure they're hard up for capital. The free money they've grown to depend on is drying up and they need to make money themselves asap.

path: 0 734548 735531, hotness: undefined, score: 49, children: 6
dustyData 39 points 3 years ago

Yup, tech bro culture is wasting someone's else money to play with computers. No money, no game time for baby. Silicon Valley is in a panic because the infinite spout of money suddenly stopped, and there's a line of pissed people asking for their money back. They promised the world, now it's time to deliver and turns out they have nothing of value.

path: 0 734548 735531 736629, hotness: undefined, score: 39, children: 5
Aceticon 52 points 3 years ago

I was in the Tech game back in the late 1990s and in the Tech Startup game recently and this time around it's not techies that are Startup Founders, it's people from Sales, Marketing and Finance.

The whole "making something cool" ethos of Tech has been replaced by "Find a market niche that you can grow in until you have an exit strategy (IPO or sale to a larger company)" or in other words, make a company that looks like an infinite growth venture and sell it to some suckers for a ton of money.

As it so happens I was in Investment Banking in between those two periods in the Tech industry and immediatelly recognized the same spirit as in Investment Banking when I went into Startups in the late 2010.

At least the previous generation was driven by the "play with computers" drive. This one is all about borderline fraud (often outright fraud - just think Theranos or all the "coin" "tech startups") in the pursuit of personal upside maximization.

path: 0 734548 735531 736629 737323, hotness: undefined, score: 52, children: 2
dustyData 18 points 3 years ago

Tech bro is a derogatory term for a reason. It's still just a bro. Generally a cis genedered heteronormative affluent white male. With all the worse parts of MBA culture. Certainly they're sales, marketing and finance types. But they want to be tech adjacent to disrupt the market. They like to portray themselves as techies but are actually about get rich quick schemes. Their one and only interest on NFTs, crypto, AI and all tech in general is how can it enable them to exploit others into making them billionaires.

path: 0 734548 735531 736629 737323 739075, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 0
thawed_caveman 3 points 3 years ago

I heard the same about the movie industry: it used to be run by movie people, now it's run by finance people. The greedy producers of old came from the industry and understood the business; today's greedy producers don't understand anything about movies, so if you're pitching them a project, you need to speak their language: here's a market niche, here's similar projects that have been profitable, here's the return on investment we can expect.

I wish i knew how true that is, but it does seem to explain a lot of what we see from Hollywood these days.

path: 0 734548 735531 736629 737323 764851, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
andrewrgross 13 points 3 years ago

What I find interesting is that I'm starting to hear this same story (in different words) from very different sources.

Lefty bloggers are saying, *"The hype economy is over, and vaporware companies used to never delivering are suddenly gasping for air in an economy that requires them to actually provide value." *And at the same time, mainstream financial podcasts are reporting that "Outlooks for 2023 anticipate a hostile market environment for disruptive innovators as they attempt to leverage their brands to monetize large user bases with low profitability. Meanwhile, the market is being buoyed by legacy firms with reliable cashflow from existing sales and services."

It shocked me when I noticed how different people are seeing the same thing, and it seems overdue.

path: 0 734548 735531 736629 739040, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
Aceticon 5 points 3 years ago
path: 0 734548 735531 736629 737341, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
plum 15 points 3 years ago

Great point that shareholders ruin everything. I invest but I’ll avoid certain companies or industries that don’t align with my values, even if those stocks have the most potential profitability. But this seems to be a very uncommon habit in the investing world.

path: 0 734548 736263, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0
designated_fridge 114 points 3 years ago

Most of the aspects have already been covered but I would want to add one:

This was always the plan, it just wasn't as highly prioritised as growth.

I work as a developer at a big tech company. We (the company) had our roadmap and it was mostly about getting more users. The more users you have the day the economy turns - the better off you are (... If you manage to turn an profit).

So when the economy went to shit and we (and other tech companies) no longer can loan money for free to cover our running expenses - the priorities shift. Working towards attracting more users is only going to increase your costs at the point and you don't want to run out of money. So all roadmaps changed and cost saving efforts became the highest prio all of the sudden.

path: 0 795890, hotness: undefined, score: 114, children: 3
merc 99 points 3 years ago

It's the end of cheap credit.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/...

That graph shows the Federal Funds Effective Rate. Until recently, VCs could borrow money while effectively paying zero interest. That meant their investments weren't under any pressure to become profitable any time soon. Now, borrowing is expensive. VCs don't want to loan any more money, and want their investments to pay off. Reddit and other pre-IPO companies are scrambling to become profitable.

I assume the big companies like YouTube / Google going against people blocking ads are just taking advantage of the chaos.

As for Twitter: Elon Musk is an idiot.

path: 0 754505, hotness: undefined, score: 99, children: 7
whoisearth 33 points 3 years ago

You forgot one thing. Fuck /u/spez

path: 0 754505 755539, hotness: undefined, score: 33, children: 1
nobody5050 7 points 3 years ago

I respect you took the time to link this

path: 0 754505 755539 760336, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
zos_kia 5 points 3 years ago

This meme is repeated everywhere ad nauseam and is blatantly wrong. VCs do not borrow money from the banks. The argument goes the other way around, and implies that the people who bankroll VCs would rather lend their money through banks than invest it - but even that is bullshit, you'd need interest rates in the double digits to even begin to be in competition with your average VC performance.

Also not 100% of VC money is american so Fed rates are not as relevant as you think. Please stop spreading that nonsense.

path: 0 754505 762313, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 4
zygo_histo_morpheus 4 points 3 years ago

It's not just the american federal reserve that's increasing it's rates. We live in a globally connected economy and almost all countries are impacted by the american economy as well as some of the reasons causing inflation in the US (the pandemic and the war). Most countries are affected by the inflation and most countries are combating it by hiking interest rates.

path: 0 754505 762313 763961, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 3
zos_kia 1 point 3 years ago

Of course everything is connected but it's not always 1 to 1, nor are the effects always immediate. Some economies absorb different impacts in different ways.

path: 0 754505 762313 763961 787088, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 2
zygo_histo_morpheus 2 points 3 years ago

The point being made is that it's more expensive to borrow, do you dispute this?

path: 0 754505 762313 763961 787088 799371, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
hydra 98 points 3 years ago

Tech companies were only favorable to their users during the corporate Web 2.0 genesis when these companies had to lure educated users in with extremely convenient free services, but they always did and continue to do so under terms of service that are intentionally made as hard to read walls of legalese bullshit, so they always click accept and hand them power by moving there.

These companies usually are either publicly traded or aspire to be publicly traded, and are backed by venture capital loaned to them by banks and investors.

Then during the late 2000s and early 2010s these corporations gobbled up web traffic by having all the valuable information and communities behind their walls. This drove their operating costs up a lot but it was no problem, since the zero interest rate policy was in effect so these now-megacorps had basically interest-free loans to get infinite money to finance the platform. However they realized around the mid 2010s that they controlled the vast majority of the web so they realized they could be as greedy as they wanted since no one is going to ever step up to them (YouTube is a shining example of this) and ever since the mid-late 2010s they started nerfing and crippling the user experience in order to please their investors and ad networks. This process was extremely slow initially to minimize the backlash. They applied the boiling frog strategy and it worked.

By the early 2020s this was in full effect: websites do not respect your privacy and try to shove trackers and ads whenever and wherever they legally can, search engines are manipulated to put sponsored and SEO spam links first rather than useful answers, sites are implementing login walls to make sure the valuable content they hold hostage can only be accessed once they have the data of users, discourse is being controlled and micromanaged by corporations with automated censorship, mystery echo chamber algorithms, shadowbans and wordlists, news sites have article limits and paywalls now. It got so bad that it's already harming society as a whole because it's causing polarization and these platforms now have enough power to theoretically manipulate elections in some really bad cases.

This is a process known as enshittification: start great then become shit and die. Now that the zero interest rate policy is over, and interest rates started climbing up it means silicon valley free money is over so they can no longer afford to be boiling frogs, they are turning up the heat to 11 and just roasting the frog alive. In other words, the enshittification cycle is becoming exponentially faster and it's only going to get worse for the corporate web and its users. The only solution is returning to decentralized technologies like Web 1.0 used to be, but it's extremely hard since free as in you pay with your data services are addictive like crack cocaine.

path: 0 755359, hotness: undefined, score: 98, children: 3
afraid_of_zombies2 9 points 3 years ago

I am starting to miss the echo chamber of YouTube. I am a fairly leftwing atheist in a solid blue state that ranks near last in religious observance. And yet roughly a quarter of the suggested videos/ads I get are for things like Epoch Times, Prager U, HeGetsUs, PJ Media.

Alright so the only way I am clicking on that stuff is by accident. From the advertisement point of view this is worse than selling iceboxes to Inuit, this is like trying to sell ribeye steaks to vegans with no money.

Which makes you wonder what the future holds. Say you are Epoch Times and you find out the YouTube is pushing your product on people who actively don't want to buy it how much longer are you going to pay Alphabet for a failed advertising campaign?

path: 0 755359 762210, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 2
rob64 7 points 3 years ago

It's either that, or these specific groups are opening up their parameters and trying to reach/convert outside their base. Which sounds about right for religious groups.

path: 0 755359 762210 765646, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
meldroc 5 points 3 years ago

There's also a political agenda at play. The Wall Street madman caste finds left wing popular movements to be obnoxious, as they undermine their business model and cost them money.

Note how Reddit's admins would turn a blind eye to Nazi subreddits and shit like r/The_Donald for years, until the entire planet screamed at Reddit to exercise some basic asshole control.

But when people started talking about punching Nazis, the banhammer came out immediately. Gotta love Reddit's totally unbiased policies...

When left wing groups get big enough to get things done, Wall Street pulls strings and then you see bans, shadowbans, biased policies & enforcement against activist groups and marginalized groups (LGBT groups getting NSFW'd out of existence), trolling & astroturfing campaigns, mass propaganda, abuse of user data (Cambridge Analytica), ratting activists out to authoritarian governments, nerfing community moderation and letting Nazis go to town while yawning when users complain, while at the same time, anyone left-wing gets instabanned for jaywalking...

path: 0 755359 762210 777228, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
bcron 96 points 3 years ago
path: 0 766265, hotness: undefined, score: 96, children: 9
BURN 95 points 3 years ago

Ads pay basically nothing now and VC funding has dried up. Most of these tech companies operated at a loss and are now being pressured into becoming profitable since investors don’t want to throw money at them anymore.

Data privacy laws have also gotten better, cutting off another revenue stream that was typically used.

path: 0 747983, hotness: undefined, score: 95, children: 3
SpezCanLigmaBalls 9 points 3 years ago

Interest rates def have a factor in this also

path: 0 747983 752447, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
Beliriel 2 points 3 years ago

But when did VC money get flushed in? I doubt that it just somehow stops out of nowhere. I mean all these companies weren't exactly founded at the same time.

path: 0 747983 751700, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
AnObscureTenet 12 points 3 years ago

During the pandemic VC slowed to a crawl and the stock market went to shit. While the market eventually rebounded VC is doing so MUCH more slowly. VC scum doesn't care about innovation, it cares about making money. If there's some level of risk it shrinks like balls in a January pool and it takes forever to coax the little guys out.

path: 0 747983 751700 752452, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
balrog 91 points 3 years ago

Capitalism.

Capitalism is like cutting off your wings because you believe the reduced weight will make you fly higher.

path: 0 758013, hotness: undefined, score: 91, children: 1
Smoogs 11 points 3 years ago

It’s shocking how accurate at how the oblivious and infuriating it is.

path: 0 758013 762421, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
RIotingPacifist 83 points 3 years ago

Part of it is the standard crisis of capitalism, the profit you get from doing the same thing always declines, so over time you have to push up revenue (increasing prices, forcing people to pay, showing more ads, gathering more data, etc) & push down costs (fire engineers, run on less hardware, etc)

Part of it is capitalisms natural tendency to create monopolies, and the lack of competition in a given field causing the company to then lose sight of what it's good at to compete in a bigger field.

Part is that interest rates mean loans are no longer cheap, so taking on debt to get customer, to at some point down the line make money, is a less viable plan. Twitter is a special case where the bad loans are because that was the original deal not interested rate related, and Musk is trying to pull all of the enshitification levers at the same time.

Part is that CEOs generally don't have a fucking clue about their products or what they are doing (it's a circuit job about who you know/blow, not what you know), so once one CEO starts firing/enshitifying, the rest just copy them so as to not be left out.

path: 0 784831, hotness: undefined, score: 83, children: 6
s4if 77 points 3 years ago

They need money for their greedy venture capitalists.

path: 0 727760, hotness: undefined, score: 77, children: 0
DashboTreeFrog 74 points 3 years ago

It's so common there's even a term for it now, "enshittification"

To quote the article that describes it:

"Here is how platforms die: First, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die."

Source: https://www.wired.com/... The source is about TikTok but the author has gone on to describe how this applies to basically every modern tech company in various interviews.

path: 0 758634, hotness: undefined, score: 74, children: 5
nobody5050 15 points 3 years ago

Cory doctorow is an incredible (journalist?) (blogger?) idk something, his posts are good

path: 0 758634 760225, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 4
zos_kia 10 points 3 years ago

His blog "Boing boing" was a luminary of the early blogosphere when that was a thing people believed would replace traditional media. He was very active with the EFF, copyleft/CC culture, the early maker scene. He was an okay novellist too ! All in all if you grabbed a copy of "Wired" from 2006 there's a 100% chance his name would be mentioned at least once in it.

path: 0 758634 760225 762051, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
DashboTreeFrog 6 points 3 years ago

I first encountered him through the "This Week In Tech" podcast where he's a frequent guest. I'm not sure what he is off the top of my head either but he's brilliant

path: 0 758634 760225 760357, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
Excrubulent 5 points 3 years ago

Writer is a good catch-all, especially since he's written some banger novels too. I read Little Brother right on the cusp of becoming an actual leftist and it had a big impact on me.

path: 0 758634 760225 763475, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 1
meldroc 2 points 3 years ago

Here, now, with the Fediverse, we are going Little Brother on enshittfied social media!

Viva la Révolution !

path: 0 758634 760225 763475 776184, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Fluid 66 points 3 years ago
path: 0 752689, hotness: undefined, score: 66, children: 8
JakeHimself -1 points 3 years ago

What's their alternative?

path: 0 752689 756078, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 7
samus12345 16 points 3 years ago

Be satisfied with just making a profit instead of wanting infinite growth.

path: 0 752689 756078 760254, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 5
Screwthehole 6 points 3 years ago

Oh my God are you ever speaking my language here.

I dunno, maybe 439 million dollars of revenue reported by reddit in 2021 is, I dunno, lots?

path: 0 752689 756078 760254 760882, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 2
zygo_histo_morpheus 4 points 3 years ago

If they don't have a sustainable business model, they don't have to operate at a loss for years either. Maybe it's better to let reddit die and transfer to a model that makes more sense. I think that smaller instances with users and moderators voluntarily paying server costs like in the fediverse seems like a much better solution than companies trying to gain a monopolistic position so that they can then ruin their product in order to make money off of it.

path: 0 752689 756078 760254 760882 764107, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
JakeHimself 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 752689 756078 760254 769442, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
JakeHimself 1 point 3 years ago

Many of those platforms weren't making a profit or only were once they started the enshittification process

path: 0 752689 756078 760254 769458, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Twelve20two 8 points 3 years ago

Fail and let the internet no longer be for profit.

path: 0 752689 756078 757562, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
MargotRobbie 60 points 3 years ago

It's simple, despite what big tech companies are telling themselves, current algorithm for personalized online ads doesn't actually work, because you can't force people to be interested something just by shoving media in front of them.

Instead of realizing that people want genuine human engagement to tell them HOW your product can help solve their problems, we are at the phase where tech companies double down on their incorrect assumption and thinks to make people want things, they just need to shove more things people don't want to see in front of them.

path: 0 747923, hotness: undefined, score: 60, children: 10
briongloid 25 points 3 years ago

Algo ads could be good, if they weren't primarily advertising stuff to me after I already bought it.

I look up a specific type of product that isn't consumable, buy it, then get ads for it for weeks.

path: 0 747923 748375, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 8
MargotRobbie 17 points 3 years ago

How many mattresses or tires can one person need?

That's the problem with personalized algorithms, because they don't understand what people actually needs.

(What people actually need is tickets to "Barbie")

path: 0 747923 748375 748478, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 4
briongloid 15 points 3 years ago

The advertising companies, Google & Facebook, absolutely do understand this and are happy to mistreat small companies.

The worst part of using Google Search without uBlock is that if I'm just trying to get to a specific website without typing out the full html address, I have to scroll passed the top result which is an advert for the website I already typed.

Google charges companies for customers they already had.

path: 0 747923 748375 748478 748773, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 3
Neirin_D 11 points 3 years ago

It's even worse than that. The ad is often a fake version of the website you are looking for. Ublock protects you from phishing and malware.

path: 0 747923 748375 748478 748773 752468, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 2
merc 13 points 3 years ago

Surely the fact that you bought a toilet recently means that you're now a toilet enthusiast and will happily click on ads to add to your toilet collection!

path: 0 747923 748375 754569, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 1
briongloid 4 points 3 years ago

We hear you like toilets

path: 0 747923 748375 754569 755618, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
DocMcStuffin 11 points 3 years ago

Long ago I was searching for a new printer then the printer ads started following me to different places on the Internet. Places that should not have known I was searching for a printer. I decided I wasn't going to have any of that and installed an ad blocker.

Not sure how effective that will be in future. Pretty sure ads as content written by AI is going to be the hot new thing. And by hot new thing I mean thing that can die in a fire.

path: 0 747923 748375 750390, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
zenhocky13 4 points 3 years ago

I’d say synchronous targeted ads work very well. I.e. showing me ads when I am searching for something explicitly on Google or Amazon. Asynchronous targeted ads - yeah, less so.

path: 0 747923 749900, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
lycanrising 58 points 3 years ago

free money has dried up, now they need to monetise your habits.

path: 0 798346, hotness: undefined, score: 58, children: 0
super_user_do 57 points 3 years ago

They've reached such an economic power that now they just want to be as profitable as possible, crushing any kind of competition of popular pro-user participation while profiting over our data and content

WE, the users, made them able to do so, giving them economic and sometime even geopolitical power. But WE still determine whether they can exist or not man, we still have the power to bring them down. It's time to take back what's ours!

path: 0 767973, hotness: undefined, score: 57, children: 0
thea 57 points 3 years ago

i hope that the internet becomes sort of how it used to be, made by the people for the people and ran by the people instead of made by a few huge corporations that sell our data and constantly try and squeeze profit out of their platforms. i love the sense of community in decentralised social media and there seems to be next to no arguments most places. im really enjoying everything so far after joining

path: 0 760957, hotness: undefined, score: 57, children: 2
maajmaaj 11 points 3 years ago
path: 0 760957 764722, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 1
CantankerousGay 4 points 3 years ago

Same. Well I didn't necessarily troll reddit, but I also had no problem telling bigots where to go or what to suck. Less people to yell at on this platform lol

path: 0 760957 764722 770577, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
cantstopthesignal 55 points 3 years ago

Interest rates go up > VCs can't barrow free money and demand a return on investment > companies try to demonstrate profitability > enshitification

path: 0 778757, hotness: undefined, score: 55, children: 0
bricks 55 points 3 years ago

Others have basically captured it, but my read is a massive change in the overall risk profile held by venture capital firms. The time of reckoning has come, and it’s time for everyone’s (or at least VCs’) favourite three letters: ARR (Annual Recurring Revenue).

The last twenty years, we’ve seen this sort of spray-and-pray model, where 99 bad investments could be offset by 1 “unicorn”. The risk appetite seems to have shifted largely because 1.) there’s a higher volume of early stage concepts (so there’s more bad ideas), and 2.) there’s either fewer unicorns, or the unicorns that mature are ultimately less valuable.

Crunchbase put out a good analysis of the current trend of global venture dollar flow:

The Party’s Still Over: The VC Downturn In 6 Charts

You can read news from various outlets - some say it’s a post-pandemic correction. Some say it’s because labour is too expensive. But the bottom line is that VCs aren’t willing to spend money on “users-in-lieu-of-revenue” like they once were, and I honestly don’t blame them. There were a lot of really, egregiously stupid ideas coming out of SV, and their wax wings melted. sad_trombone.mp4

Adam Kotsko summed this entire phenomena up nicely:

path: 0 729593, hotness: undefined, score: 55, children: 2
BananaTrifleViolin 4 points 3 years ago

I think you really hit the nail on the head.

Crudely it can be summarised as a change from investors throwing money at tech in the hope of buying a share of future profits to wanting to see those profits. That means business models have to now actually deliver and a lot of then just don't - twitter, reddit, Gfycat - they're all part of the same phenomenon. Big revenues is meaningless without profit. While they may have value to the users, it seems the advertising funded models and data harvesting models just don't deliver profit for these kinds of services.

So they desperately try to adjust the models to maximise income and reduce cost. Enshittification ensues.

path: 0 729593 748076, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
MashingBundle 3 points 3 years ago

Great explanation. The days of the "web 2.0" fantasy dream are officially over, investors needed their money back at a certain point and that point is now.

path: 0 729593 753285, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
SulaymanF 54 points 3 years ago

It's a process known as Enshittification.

Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.

The rest of the read is quite good.

path: 0 779454, hotness: undefined, score: 54, children: 0
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever 53 points 3 years ago
path: 0 747473, hotness: undefined, score: 53, children: 1
partner0709 -37 points 3 years ago
path: 0 747473 750020, hotness: undefined, score: -37, children: 0
weew 53 points 3 years ago

A lot of the 2010's tech was fueled by venture capitalists looking for the next big thing. They saw things that were extremely popular, like Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, etc, and figured "well we've got a ton of users, surely we can find a way to make money off of this."

Some investors are starting to realize they aren't actually making much money or costs are blowing up without revenue following. People are starting to back out of this bubble without clear goals towards profitability.

path: 0 754308, hotness: undefined, score: 53, children: 1
mignochrono 8 points 3 years ago

Yeah it's mostly investment people that have a lot of money and are basically the ones pulling the strings. Because if they don't like you then the value of your company goes down and poof you were deeply s***

path: 0 754308 755433, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
ICastFist 52 points 3 years ago

Not really "all of a sudden", this has been a long process. The often repeated enshittification thing is fully valid. The short version is:

  • start out
  • grow and expand as much as possible
  • bring in advertisers
  • make everyone depend on your service
  • abuse your powers, since everyone "needs" your service

Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter are the more obvious culprits, but every big tech company does something similar, one way or another, even hardware companies like Intel or Nvidia

path: 0 772121, hotness: undefined, score: 52, children: 2
morgan_423 51 points 3 years ago

That doesn't fix YouTube's core issues with the ads that they run, impacting every free user without an ad blocker: 1) Not 100% safe 2) Unscrupulous advertisers, sometimes running scam ads 3) Poor user experience re: ads (far too many in general, and multiple mid-roll ads per video make for a horrendous time).

I'm not going to reward them for these misbehaviors toward their user base by buying their "Premium" service. Same for any other site that does this and offers a "Premium service" to fix the problem that they, themselves, created. There are ways to have safe ads, and fair user experience even with them in play.

EDIT: This was supposed to be a reply in a post chain below, and it got stuck as a new comment. Lemmy growing pains, lol (looks like we've added about 4k or so users on .world today alone... welcome new folks!)

path: 0 738145, hotness: undefined, score: 51, children: 6
CoderKat 14 points 3 years ago

Yeah, Youtube seriously needs to improve ad quality. I personally totally get that it's an expensive site to run and have no problems with the fact that it needs to turn a profit (not every site can get by on donations alone and that's okay). But the ads can get really bad sometimes. The majority are fine, but the number of scams and NSFW ads are still too high.

TBH, I just paid the extra $2 to go from Youtube Music to Youtube Premium because I really didn't want to see those ads and didn't wanna deal with figuring out ad blocking for a Chromecast. But Youtube Premium isn't worth it if you're not already using Youtube Music (I would not have paid $12 for it) plus you have to use Youtube a certain amount for it to be worth it. Plus, of course, it shouldn't be necessary to pay them not to see ads just to avoid seeing the bad ads.

And all this does nothing about Youtube recommending videos (not ads) that are unethical. They don't do a good job at curating videos. Heck, there's been times where they age restrict LGBT videos for simply having any LGBT references but they'll leave up crypto scams and hate speech filled alt right videos.

path: 0 738145 738688, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 1
DreamlandLividity 13 points 3 years ago

For me personally, its not even the principle with the bad ads. The reasons I won't pay for preemium are:

  1. 12$ is too much, since I don't live in the US and my pay is not at that level.
  2. I won't pay to still have my data harvested and sold. If I pay for YT, there should be a different privacy policy with not using the data for anything outside video recommendations.
  3. I don't want to pay for all the antifeatures YT pushes such as removing dislikes, not allowing channel search on mobile, messing with search reaults and recommendations...
path: 0 738145 738688 748189, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
cyanarchy 14 points 3 years ago

The bottom line is that I decide what content is received, interpreted, and rendered by my hardware. Youtube can kick and scream all they want, the nature of the internet is not in their favor. I prefer to directly support creators I follow, when and where I can.

path: 0 738145 743739, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 3
DreamlandLividity 8 points 3 years ago

Intel is about to disagree with their DRM bullshit baked right into your CPUs silicon. Welcome to the "You will own nothing" future

path: 0 738145 743739 747465, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 2
Beliriel 4 points 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure if they actually do that it has far reaching consequences and will get killed within a year by financial institutions. That is a massive security issue. Also AMD would rub their hands because it will flush a lot of money into their pockets to develop alternatives. They are already winning with CPUs.

path: 0 738145 743739 747465 751935, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
DreamlandLividity 1 point 3 years ago

It does not cause security issues (that banks are concerned about). It is a DRM content decryption that is part of their TPM. So it is even considered a security feature that can more generally be used to ensure data can only be decrypted using the proper application the data was intended for. Netflix is already using it for 4k streaming. Read more here.

path: 0 738145 743739 747465 751935 872165, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
SapienSRC 48 points 3 years ago

Because they don't have too be. Most people are so dependent on social media that they'll keep using a service even though they hate it. Like a drug addict who keeps using even though it's killing them.

path: 0 756413, hotness: undefined, score: 48, children: 3
Flemmy 23 points 3 years ago

That's certainly what the companies believe, is it actually true though? Musk said everyone but the bots came crawling back... Without showing numbers

I think tech CEOs badly want to believe this is true, because it would be an easy solution to all their problems. And with everyone doing something similar, there's no competitor for them to jump to

I think they're about to realize no one has to go to them, entry were just the convenient choice. Once they're no longer convenient, people will turn elsewhere

path: 0 756413 758031, hotness: undefined, score: 23, children: 1
SapienSRC 2 points 3 years ago

I agree with you of course, proven by where we are having this conversation. However, I have my doubts about the majority of Reddit users switching, at least currently. Most people don’t understand what is going on and are even more confused by the alternatives.

path: 0 756413 758031 773525, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Flemmy 6 points 3 years ago

That's certainly what the companies believe, is it actually true though? Musk said everyone but the bots came crawling back... Without showing numbers

I think tech CEOs badly want to believe this is true, because it would be an easy solution to all their problems. And with everyone doing something similar, there's no competitor for them to jump to

I think they're about to realize no one has to go to them, entry were just the convenient choice. Once they're no longer convenient, people will turn elsewhere

path: 0 756413 758030, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
kromem 45 points 3 years ago

No tech burst.

It's just a cold recession. No one is admitting it, including consumers who keep spending away savings.

But companies are aware of it enough they are tightening purses preparing for harder times ahead.

Of course, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If everyone makes their products worse chasing this quarter's dollar, and people leave, those companies are going to have a harder time.

Especially as it becomes easier and easier to compete against them at scale.

Just wait until new feature requests and bug reports for something like Lemmy can be handled within moments by AI at dirt cheap pricing.

A very interesting future awaits around the bend.

path: 0 800579, hotness: undefined, score: 45, children: 0
Poglathegrate 43 points 3 years ago

All of a sudden?

My dear, sweet summer child.

path: 0 763625, hotness: undefined, score: 43, children: 4
65gmexl3 7 points 3 years ago

english is not my first language, maybe I should've used a different phrase but my context is recent events

path: 0 763625 767637, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 2
CodeInvasion 9 points 3 years ago

You used the phrase correctly, and your English is great!

The above commenter was rudely stating that your observation is not correct as it's has always been this way.

path: 0 763625 767637 770728, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
Poglathegrate 2 points 3 years ago

It isn't a new thing.

As soon as the realisation that a dollar could be made, then every dollar was squeezed out of it.

The dot com bubble burst of the 90s was one of the earliest, but not THE earliest example of this.

path: 0 763625 767637 769259, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
rob64 3 points 3 years ago

I was just thinking yesterday I hadn't heard that phrase in a while...

path: 0 763625 765363, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Clown_Tempura 42 points 3 years ago

The 'trust thermocline' occurs when an organization repeatedly takes their customers for granted, and they reach a critical point of 'no trust return' and just leave. Essentially, if you gradually provide less quality while charging more money, you erode trust- and if you lose trust, you don't actually ever get it back. See: Twitter. And possibly now Reddit. Great term, I love it even, but I hate that the lesson these people are learning isn't 'hey maybe we should stop pissing people off without good reason' and is instead is "this is acceptable risk and we should continue playing chicken with dissatisfied users to make our shareholders happy."

path: 0 774293, hotness: undefined, score: 42, children: 5
Quill0 41 points 3 years ago

I find it the ad bubble is bursting so companies are increasing costs for api access and divert people into using their own apps (so they can't block ads and such)

path: 0 787398, hotness: undefined, score: 41, children: 0
joel_feila 41 points 3 years ago

https://www.wired.com/...

Enshitifacation. Twitter onlyy turned a profit once, YouTube is about 20% of global bandwidth and has turned a profit. companies don't just want money they want the amount of money to always increase. So they turn to ever more exploitation to try to get it.

path: 0 766115, hotness: undefined, score: 41, children: 1
danboy4 39 points 3 years ago

Because investors are tired of the model where they dump a shit load of cash into something that has no good path for monetization. So they’re forcing them all to make money which hurts users.

path: 0 772118, hotness: undefined, score: 39, children: 2
GoodKingElliot 39 points 3 years ago

Well, I hope the Fediverse works out. Otherwise I think were gonna have to go back to hand printing zines.

path: 0 783054, hotness: undefined, score: 39, children: 10
afraid_of_zombies2 38 points 3 years ago

You are the product and right now the product is falling in value. I have known a few people who raise exotic animals and they treated them as nicely as a parent treats their own child. Now compare this to people who raise chickens.

The easy money is drying up. Hence you, the product, are worth less money. I personally don't really care all that much. The market was due for a correction well over a decade ago. The average person is worth about a dollar to Alphabet and when you think about how much you are getting the numbers never made sense. This dead weight mismatch has been skewing our entire economy. Engineers and project managers that would have gone into tangible items and paid for services instead were recruited to keep you on social media all day.

There are only a finite amount of techies and no one is going to care if slack integrated with Google maps if we are drowning in human sewage.

path: 0 760166, hotness: undefined, score: 38, children: 0
SeaOtter 34 points 3 years ago

Cheap/free money has dried up.

path: 0 767841, hotness: undefined, score: 34, children: 1
Sanctus 32 points 3 years ago

We have reached the stage where the snakes have grown large enough that they must prey on their own tails, for there is nothing left to eat.

path: 0 800461, hotness: undefined, score: 32, children: 0
PorradaVFR 31 points 3 years ago

I've worked in the tech sector for a LONG time and have met and worked with some of the most shockingly brilliant and insightful people in my life….and many that are far less so.

As with any population.

Bad decisions, lack of strategy or plain old monetization motivated by greed or a desire to cash out before the cash runs out are sadly commonplace. The method taken says everything about the quality (or lack thereof) of leadership.

Some real stinkers lately.

path: 0 762123, hotness: undefined, score: 31, children: 0
Pillarist 31 points 3 years ago

enshittification

Give it a Google.

path: 0 755103, hotness: undefined, score: 31, children: 0
HunterBidensLapDog 31 points 3 years ago

Interest rates went from almost zero to real rates. If you're sitting on a pile of money you can invest it in internet companies with crazy valuations and no profit or near zero-risk Treasury Bills and interest-bearing certificates.

Many investors know they are betting on the greater fool instead of any real value in these internet companies. There are now fewer greater fools.

If your business model was to give out free stuff paid for by piles of investor money, you suddenly had to find cash to keep the lights on.

Elon has to pay $1B in interest every year for Twitter. That's still a lot of money.

Elon being a cartoon villian gave other people cover to do the same. You're less likely to be singled out by the media.Your taking candy from a baby is just part of the trend or the run of bad luck falling on those poor billionaires.

path: 0 748245, hotness: undefined, score: 31, children: 4
SharkEatingBreakfast 10 points 3 years ago

You're less likely to be singled out by the media

Helps if you own that media, too.

Who knew that online spaces based in capitalism would be a bad idea??

path: 0 748245 752463, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
zos_kia 2 points 3 years ago

If you’re sitting on a pile of money you can invest it in internet companies with crazy valuations and no profit or near zero-risk Treasury Bills and interest-bearing certificates.

Weird thing to say when VC investing outperforms the market by 2.5x (even with the current rates) on average but 🤷

path: 0 748245 762740, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 2
HunterBidensLapDog 1 point 3 years ago

Yes high returns. Average of 25‰ over 25 years.

But also, much higher risk with 75% of startups never shipping and 40% of those liquidating so VC investors lose all of their money.

So if you have 25 years, don't need the cash, and have a high tolerance for risk then VCs are for you.

But if you think you're going to need to cash out sooner than 25 years or need steady income then interest bearing instruments look a lot more attractive.

path: 0 748245 762740 783912, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1
zos_kia 1 point 3 years ago

I don't know it must depend on the market, in Europe you'll generally get your money back in 7 to 10 years. And the very point of investing in a VC and not a singular company is that you flatten the risk and get your money back from the few companies who succeed. VCs are designed to bleed money looking for a moonshot but there's not that many that fail ALL their investments and can't show a 5% yearly for it.

path: 0 748245 762740 783912 787795, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
FelipeFelop 30 points 3 years ago
path: 0 799618, hotness: undefined, score: 30, children: 0
araucaria_araucana 30 points 3 years ago
path: 0 750956, hotness: undefined, score: 30, children: 7
araucaria_araucana 17 points 3 years ago
path: 0 750956 750981, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 0
GroteStreet 8 points 3 years ago

the frog was boilng for some time now

Interestingly, the frogs are actually smarter than humans. Research has shown that they will start attempting to escape as soon as it gets too warm, no matter how slow you boil them.

path: 0 750956 755181, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 2
Excrubulent 5 points 3 years ago

Also if you drop a frog in boiling water it won't jump out; it will die. That is not a survivable environment for a frog, not even long enough for it to jump.

Also if you put a frog in cold water and you don't immediately shut the lid, it will jump out. They don't sit still for you.

It's amazing how thoroughly wrong that metaphor is. Like it's just got it perfectly backwards.

path: 0 750956 755181 763620, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
samus12345 4 points 3 years ago

Yeah, it's an extremely common false metaphor.

path: 0 750956 755181 760303, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
hydra 1 point 3 years ago

buen nombre

path: 0 750956 756277, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
DoNoFret 0 points 3 years ago

Oh yes.

True Foss, became radicalized crazies.

Crypto was for criminals and terrorists.

Truly open forums shut down because racism or pedophilia.

If lemmy will be attacked on all these fronts, being a lemmy user will be equivalent of your boss asking you serious questions.

Get those vpns in place. Full speed ahead.

path: 0 750956 754171, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 1
ProgrammingSocks 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah because all "truly open forum" means is no moderation and what that invites is indeed literal pedophiles and bigots of all types

path: 0 750956 754171 757219, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
panja 29 points 3 years ago

Companies expect infinite profit growth

path: 0 796054, hotness: undefined, score: 29, children: 10
Pup 29 points 3 years ago

Because the days of just shoveling money into various silicon valley projects in the hope that maybe they'll turn a profit eventually is over. Big investment firms now want an actual return from their investment, and because of that, tech companies are desperately trying whatever they can to turn a profit from these massive services that are also very expensive to run. That usually comes in the form of changes that makes things harder for the users, but is significantly more profitable for the companies that run them.

path: 0 782098, hotness: undefined, score: 29, children: 9
cley_faye 28 points 3 years ago

It's more like you now notice this because it have visible effects, but it's been going on for years. Restricting content, abusive rules and stupid changes have been the norm, all toward a centrally controlled experience geared toward generating internal profits on the back of users and content creators.

It's also why some prominent content creator started their own platforms, too.

It's just that now it reaches "intolerable" level for most end-users.

path: 0 764516, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 0
WolfhoundRO 28 points 3 years ago

They were like this before also, but you're right: now they're much more overt and like they're pushed or hurried by something... And that something is the prospect of recession. They're not publicly announcing it, but their liquid assets are running low and they hit the ceiling for growth. YouTube is trying to maximize their exposure and revenue for ads by cracking down on adblockers; Twitter and Musk doing the dumbest decision just for money, the last one for the rate limitation being connected with not paying the bills to Google Cloud; Reddit introducing 3rd party API usage fees for, maybe, the same reason... They ran out of "smart" and covert solutions to milk their product, partners and clients of money and they would rather go down in greed. And they won't even be directly responsible due to those golden parachutes

path: 0 764795, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 1
xaxl 26 points 3 years ago

Oh you thought the end goal was to make a good website. Hahaha.

path: 0 778130, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 0
Grant_M 26 points 3 years ago

When billionaire fascists start being held to account, they lash out.

path: 0 787854, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 8
x7tYnC6c 25 points 3 years ago

While these changes will eventually happen, as all of these companies are meant to make a profit from the start. The reason they're all happening now is because of the coming recession, or at least the believe that it will come.

path: 0 761075, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 5
rainfern 3 points 3 years ago

I don't think reddit started out as a for profit company. iirc it started as some dudes sharing links. I knew a site like that back in the day. Link aggregator and forum made by one dude because he liked the community.

path: 0 761075 764676, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
RandallFlagg 2 points 3 years ago

There's a coming recession?

path: 0 761075 763158, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 2
Gradually_Adjusting 3 points 3 years ago

It's 2008 again. Bad bets taking advantage of dovish monetary policy that has now ended.

path: 0 761075 763158 764663, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Obi 2 points 3 years ago

Maybe, maybe not. You like betting?

path: 0 761075 763158 763764, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Zuberi 1 point 3 years ago

100%. They want their bag before it all goes goes to shit.

path: 0 761075 764190, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
DuskLoaf 25 points 3 years ago

Everyone wants a piece of the AI pie

path: 0 727934, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 4
redballooon 17 points 3 years ago
  1. Grow a platform
  2. AI appears on the stage
  3. ???
  4. Profit
path: 0 727934 728538, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 0
FlyingSquid 12 points 3 years ago

Maybe Spez and Elon can use AI to write all the posts on their platforms to keep the advertisers interested.

path: 0 727934 729127, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
Sabata11792 3 points 3 years ago

So, no changes?

path: 0 727934 729127 747912, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Shialac 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah, very likely. Platforms/Investors see a way to make money besides the usual Ad- and Subscription-Based monetization models

path: 0 727934 728374, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Thioether 24 points 3 years ago

Combination of VC money drying up and fear of LLM sucking up their future revenue streams. I think the former is the the logical driver and the latter is the secret fear.

path: 0 728398, hotness: undefined, score: 24, children: 0
hoshikarakitaridia 22 points 3 years ago

There are a lot of reasons for this general trend, but let me add my two cents to make a case for the sudden influx of user-opposed changes:

I don't have a source for this, but I remember that Linus spoke about this on the LTT WAN-Show. Basically, abunch of big silicon valley investors are pulling out of all of the big platforms, therefore leaving them with a huge hole in their profitability. This means, that right now a lot of them are scrambling to scrape together more money over time, so all of those platforms are sustainable.

Obviously this has to observed in conjunction with all of those are trends that are already mentioned by other comments, but this gives more basis as to why now, and why to this extent.

If someone else knows what I'm talking about please add quotes and sources because I don't like the good old 'dude trust me' guarantee one bit.

path: 0 788089, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 3
damnYouSun 22 points 3 years ago

It's the Romulans, they're holding back human progress.

path: 0 733216, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 2
jameskirk 3 points 3 years ago

Unlike the Vulcans, who helped human progress!

path: 0 733216 748345, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
icepuncher69 1 point 3 years ago

Who?

path: 0 733216 739084, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Etterra 22 points 3 years ago

YouTube can try lol. But they've never cared about users. They're just all at about the same point where they have to stop pretending in order to feed that capitalism machine (or try to at least). It looks like hostility, but it's just them finally being honest.

path: 0 758898, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 0
Stinkywinks 20 points 3 years ago

Like the downfall of everything in our society, greed.

path: 0 729109, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 1
RemembertheApollo 2 points 3 years ago

The BS idea of infinite growth that our financial system revolves around. The stock market and investments all demand endless growth, and that pressure on company quarterly reports drives everything from unbundling, to suppressing wages and benefits, to squeezing users for more money in any way possible- and for us that’s ad revenue to be extracted from our browsers and apps.

path: 0 729109 742117, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Ranessin 19 points 3 years ago

Money is tighter since the inflation affects VC and stupid money flowing in. Stock prices are not going up, people have no money to play with (see the death of NFTs at the same time, the definition of a stupid investment).

path: 0 795046, hotness: undefined, score: 19, children: 0
hi117 18 points 3 years ago

Because users are not the customer but the product for others. And with network effects meaning there's less competition (ie no place to go to), then they no longer have to attempt to appease the product and can focus on appeasing customers.

path: 0 781411, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 0
WheeGeetheCat 18 points 3 years ago

Wouldnt even be surprised if Musk wanted to convince huffman to do this to split the outrage.

LIke how all the tech companies did layoffs at the same time this year

path: 0 734552, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 3
TheLight 17 points 3 years ago

And before anyone says this sounds like a baseless conspiracy theory, remember that the big tech companies got fined a few years ago for having an agreement not poach each other's employees to keep wages down. They do talk to each other, and for things that matter.

path: 0 734552 736627, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 0
can 2 points 3 years ago

Spez already admitted he talked to musk and got inspiration from him.

path: 0 734552 747577, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
WheeGeetheCat 2 points 3 years ago

yeah I just mean I think musk might've manipulated him a bit, or they had both wanted to do things to piss of their communities respecitvely and agreed to do it 'together'

path: 0 734552 747577 755451, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
yrmitz 18 points 3 years ago

Because usually the greed, money and power corrupts, no matter how good you are in the beginning.

path: 0 802088, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 0
panda_paddle 17 points 3 years ago

I'm not sure YouTube ever wanted you using adblockers.

path: 0 734816, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 14
morgan_423 30 points 3 years ago

Google needs to understand, that is not a choice that they have.

So much of the internet is covered by sites that don't take the time the vet their advertisers and the ads that are being placed on their platform.

Advertisers who, in turn, advertise on legit sites spreading scams and malware wherever they go, and Google and YouTube are no exception to this. These companies really brought The Age of the AdBlocker on themselves, by not making sure that the ads they are allowing on their platforms are safe for users.

So now, me and about a bajillion other people are in a position where we don't go out onto the internet anymore without protection. Ad blockers for everyone.

So, YouTube's actual choice is this: do they want me to continue to visit their site and drive their traffic metrics?

Because that's all they are getting from me, and if they find a way to disable all ad blockers, than they are clearly saying that they don't want me and others like me to boost their visitor numbers. Simple as that.

path: 0 734816 736556, hotness: undefined, score: 30, children: 12
SgtSilverLining 15 points 3 years ago

I've been using the internet since the 90s. Originally I was very pro ad, since it meant that we wouldn't end up with paying subscriptions for every site on top of internet utility bills. But around 2010 or so I got malware from an ad I didn't even click on - all it had to do was load on the page. The site issued an open apology but it's not like they were going to pay repair costs for everyone's computers. After that I knew neither websites nor ad suppliers were vetting what they display to users. Companies only get more complacent as time goes on, and once the option was out there bad actors would only get more creative. I've used ad blockers ever since.

path: 0 734816 736556 737932, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0
fushuan -7 points 3 years ago

I'm against them doing that they are doing but you talk like you don't have the choice to add YouTube as an exception to your adblocker of choice. Yeah having an adblocker is crucial but nothing is impeding you to do that and see the adds on YouTube.

path: 0 734816 736556 736784, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 10
morgan_423 21 points 3 years ago

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

I try to take no ads, from anyone, because it's a digital safety issue. YouTube included.

path: 0 734816 736556 736784 736909, hotness: undefined, score: 21, children: 3
Seiyus 1 point 3 years ago

That’s fair but while visitor metrics are important, there is also ad engagement that makes them a desirable platform for those advertisers. Your visits add nothing to their business. Not that I agree with their stance, but I understand it.

path: 0 734816 736556 736784 736909 737764, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
thereddevil -2 points 3 years ago

Then buy YouTube Premium and the ads go away.

YouTube is not a charity and needs to pay for servers hosting the content people view. That money comes from ads/YouTube Premium

path: 0 734816 736556 736784 736909 737552, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 1
abaixodecao 10 points 3 years ago path: 0 734816 736556 736784 737718, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
scarabic -1 points 3 years ago

You can also pay for YT premium and have no ads. Plus… what’s unsafe about YT ads? You’ll definitely get some fucked up ads on small websites that just plug in a stack of 3rd party ad networks but everything on YT is native first party ads they sold and implemented themselves. Viewing them is about as unsafe as viewing YT videos in the first place.

path: 0 734816 736556 736784 737641, hotness: undefined, score: -1, children: 4
can 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I really enjoy the ads showing how I too can earn hundreds of dollars a day at home doing _____-

path: 0 734816 736556 736784 737641 747548, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3
Flaky 13 points 3 years ago

They didn't, but they're going on the offensive way more so than before. People think it's related to MV3 crippling a lot of ad blocker functionality.

path: 0 734816 735516, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
Zithero 16 points 3 years ago

They forget the users are their base, not their employees, or are bought by idiot billionaires who think they can turn the platform I to another money printer (or tax write-off)

Spez in particular saw Twitter and thought that would be a great idea.

I don't think he understands he's about to be CEO of Tumblr 2.0

path: 0 780720, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 1
Lack0fCommunication 16 points 3 years ago

It's like an abusive relationship, they know they can do things against their customers but most will come back willing to pay to make it work. This trend will not stop until enough people leave.

path: 0 770856, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 0
TheGrover 14 points 3 years ago path: 0 766104, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 1
QubaXR 13 points 3 years ago

It's not anything new and nothing "all of a sudden", unfortunately. Facebook, Tumbler, Google - all done stuff like that before. Even for Reddit this is not the first protest blackout and not the first time they treat users and mods like garbage.

It simply is now happening to the apps and services you (and I) use daily, so it hits closer home.

All modern stairs are built on the same terrible foundation: Attract users, no matter how much money you lose. Once you feel strong, introduce fees, ads, hike the prices and try to regulate years of financial loss.

Happened like clockwork, and companies going public are a clear sign it's just around the corner. (Kind of like any free mobile app will ask you for a 5 star review, just before introducing monetization schemes)

path: 0 787258, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 2
Ainiriand 13 points 3 years ago

Their cash overlords want returns on their investments.

path: 0 799594, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0
AlbyEvent 12 points 3 years ago

The biggest problem is that average people are used to the tech big companies provide, and lazy so that they won't move to overall better alternatives. This means the companies don't care about consequences of their actions, because there is NONE. Looking at it from the company's perspective, why not make more money from people that won't leave the site anyways?

path: 0 766358, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
angrynomad 12 points 3 years ago

Just wait till you have to pay per email. You're not still using Gmail are you?

path: 0 801165, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 5
jordanlund 12 points 3 years ago

They haven't yet realized that a platform dependent on user created content and user run moderation, is infinitely replaceable. See Fark and Digg.

Reddit and Twitter and just the latest to learn the lesson. Without your users, you may as well be MySpace.

path: 0 779555, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
AtheistAndroid 12 points 3 years ago

The answer is AI. Amongst other things. Reddit is about to go public and wants everyone on their main app for advertising and tracking. Twitter is dealing with hosting issues with Google.

Plus AI companies are extracting content from Twitter and Reddit to train their AI models like chatGPT which is a huge money maker, and these platforms aren't getting any money from it so they're trying to make it more difficult to get access to it. They want companies like OpenAI and Stability and Microsoft and Google to pay large sums of money for access to their content to train AI on.

path: 0 764332, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 9
PR_freak 8 points 3 years ago

The thing with AI is that it is both a parasite to the content it is trained on and an alternative to it because people who ask AI don't ask in forums

These tech giants are searching for a way to keep everyone happy but I honestly don't see any

Reddit just realized it has been sitting on a pile of gold the entire time and now it wants to reap its rewards

path: 0 764332 764647, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 7
ProffessionalAmateur 5 points 3 years ago

It's easy to work around the AI issue by providing the devs an API key for Apollo, RIF, etc. and charging a reasonable price. Instead Spez took the nuclear option like all platforms these days. They don't give a single fuck about the users.

Anyway it's been happening for years like others have mentioned. Once stakeholders are involved if you have to ask a question the answer is always money

path: 0 764332 764987, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
Briguy24 12 points 3 years ago

$.

path: 0 728826, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
JohnBoBon 11 points 3 years ago

It's all about the money, money

path: 0 774925, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
donut4ever 11 points 3 years ago
path: 0 754739, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 4
randon31415 7 points 3 years ago

Hey, the furries have mostly migrated to lemmy!

path: 0 754739 759547, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
meldroc 2 points 3 years ago

It's going to be a gradual process. We power users, mods & activists make the leap first.

Later, when the collective IQ on Reddit drops another 30 points, more casual users will watch fun & useful content disappear, watch assholes take over, and get pissed enough to jump ship.

My bet is that the fascist troll problems on Reddit will escalate, since many mods left, and moderator tools got nerfed. It very well could escalate until more casual users jump ship.

path: 0 754739 778185, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
meldroc 2 points 3 years ago
path: 0 754739 778204, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
meldroc 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 754739 778196, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
wagoner 10 points 3 years ago

The tech companies tend to follow the leader on unpopular actions. The first-mover bears the brunt of the backlash, allowing the copycats to implement the same policies without the same flak. Witness Twitter introducing fees and then Facebook following suit. Witness Twitter banning third party apps and Reddit... you know the rest.

path: 0 748565, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
Fizz 10 points 3 years ago

I don't think it's all of a sudden. They always do this but this time it's all lined up.

path: 0 761723, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
peter 10 points 3 years ago

All VC backed tech companies have been operating on the assumption that they can focus on growth and then make a profit later. That hasn't happened for most of these companies and VCs are starting to demand returns. It was always going to happen, I'm surprised it took this long.

path: 0 728732, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 2
Overzeetop 3 points 3 years ago

More importantly, the IPO market collapsed a couple of years ago. That is the VC's payday. Now that we're not in an IPO buying frenzy, investors are wanting to see positive cashflow before they buy.

path: 0 728732 741777, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
zedtronic 1 point 3 years ago

Rates needed to rise before it was going to come to pass.

path: 0 728732 746739, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Strangian 9 points 3 years ago

It’s all about money

path: 0 758250, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
AlexisFR 9 points 3 years ago
path: 0 760117, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 5
gaussian_distro 3 points 3 years ago

Go on. How do you circumvent ads now on yt?

path: 0 760117 764143, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 4
AlexisFR 2 points 3 years ago
path: 0 760117 764143 766163, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
PopOfAfrica 2 points 3 years ago
path: 0 760117 764143 767295, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
65gmexl3 1 point 3 years ago

good tip, thanks

path: 0 760117 764143 767295 767969, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
PaladinSaladin 1 point 3 years ago

Personally, I use NewPipe

path: 0 760117 764143 766339, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
theUnlikely 9 points 3 years ago

YouTube is blocking adblockers? News to me

path: 0 778640, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 8
designated_fridge 9 points 3 years ago

You are used to a time where money was essentially free for companies. Whenever they needed money, they could loan money almost for free.

As interest rates are up, that's no longer the case and priorities have changed from growth to plugging holes.

path: 0 729434, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
zazaserty 9 points 3 years ago

They have grown to the point where they are now focusing on being more profitable. And apparently they are not scared of losing users.

path: 0 776103, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
squarewagon 8 points 3 years ago

AI training and data mining. The value of data has surpassed the value of oil long ago. The world's most valuable resource is no longer oil.

path: 0 778092, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 2
Compu 8 points 3 years ago

the problem is businesses r built on the concept of infinite growth, profit isn't the thing that determines success, it's the constant increase in profit, now things r quickly hitting the limit and they're desperate to find any way to keep the number going up

path: 0 765672, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
MrSpArkle 8 points 3 years ago

Why are companies not favorable to people?

path: 0 738337, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1
cyanarchy 2 points 3 years ago

Unchecked profit motive.

path: 0 738337 743940, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
mintycactus 7 points 3 years ago
path: 0 767633, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
0xDEADBEEF 6 points 3 years ago

It always boils down to corporate greed unfortunately

path: 0 782216, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
huge_clock 6 points 3 years ago

When interest rates are low the difference between a dollar now and a dollar later (discount factor) is negligible. In this environment the math favours businesses that can grow revenue really fast.

Now that rates have risen, the discount factor has become more expensive and so firms want their dollars today. A lot of companies need to come up with a path to profitability quickly to shore up their stock prices and have a sustainable business.

path: 0 732174, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
Aux 6 points 3 years ago

Because the users are their product.

path: 0 786273, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 6
Redknots 6 points 3 years ago

I think part of it has been watching Twitter just completely abandon any attempts at treating users and developers well, and seeing that people are still active there. Reddit sees Twitter completely fuck over third party devs, and realizes they can do the same and weather the storm, and have it all work out well enough for them.

path: 0 780124, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
ANIMATEK 5 points 3 years ago

We are the most disposable asset they have. They need to turn a profit so we are being squeezed.

path: 0 729671, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
betterdeadthanreddit 5 points 3 years ago

We're not people to them, just part of a product. Why do anything more than absolutely necessary to keep the money flowing in? Save a fraction of a penny on bandwidth, earn another fraction by selling more complete data and ad views. Multiply that by the number of users and if enough will tolerate it, somebody at the top can buy a shiny new yacht.

path: 0 729307, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
Liquid 4 points 3 years ago

Everyone's rushing to implement/improve AI. AI needs a ton of data, Reddit/Twitter are good available sources. Reddit/Twitter would prefer to sell this data as opposed to having it gathered from under them by bots, for free.

I think that's why Twitter and Reddit are rushing to restrict access (directly or through the API).

Youtube are just aggressively serving you ads, and limiting ways for you to circumvent ads. I think that's just what they do as they have the market sewn up

path: 0 810151, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
theothermatt_b 4 points 3 years ago

Another step in the enshittification cycle just happened to affect three companies that you noticed at the same time.

Another day, another big website taking steps to make their user experience actively worse.

https://pluralistic.net/...

path: 0 739247, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
KluEvo 4 points 3 years ago

You forgot discord and the username changes, which happened a few weeks ago

path: 0 774282, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2
QubaXR 4 points 3 years ago
path: 0 787162, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
Shartacus 4 points 3 years ago

Yep and we have a right to not use their shit services and start a new one while the investors get pissed

path: 0 765504, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
Shadywack 4 points 3 years ago

Like several of the other comments that highlight the interest rates, for those of us who saw the late 90's/early 2000's tech bubble burst it's the same thing all over again.

path: 0 778289, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
panda_paddle 3 points 3 years ago

I'm not sure YouTube ever wanted you using adblockers.

path: 0 734946, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
scumola 3 points 3 years ago

Could it be related to the silicon valley bank going under maybe?

path: 0 775377, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
Nutteman 3 points 3 years ago

All of the sudden? This has been happening, maybe slowly at first, since every one of those platforms started, imo.

path: 0 774743, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
snek 3 points 3 years ago

Could it have something to do with inflation?

path: 0 773147, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3
CaraDe3 3 points 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure that most of the companies do this type of crap because they know that we need their product.

path: 0 754666, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Quetzacoatl 3 points 3 years ago

very good observation! I guess it's to no small part caused by a change in the economic and investment climate, and as a result new measures by man's companies; and they chose the first day of the new business quarter as a start date for many of them.

path: 0 731745, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
RatzChatsubo 2 points 3 years ago

Chatgpt is using up all their resources and inflating viewership by logging into these sites millions of times. And ad companies are mad that they can't catch eyeballs anymore so they are pressuring social media giants to search for alternative income

Just my headcannon

path: 0 728622, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
bioemerl 1 point 3 years ago

I doubt it. There's no way one company is inflating the views of a website by a million times. And the users are not going around browsing the internet with Chat GPT in mass. Web scraping is definitely an excuse for them to make these moves, not a reason

path: 0 728622 741507, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
simin 2 points 3 years ago

i saw a comment on hackernews about how chatgpt and LLMs really caused reddit's recent changes and conflicts. and that made sense to a degree. the regular user is perpetually online and i guess big tech is all about grabbing users' limited attention at this point.

path: 0 729545, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Wisi_eu 2 points 3 years ago

Money.

path: 0 779832, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
peinnoir 2 points 3 years ago

Time for a open-source youtube alternative, I haven't yet been convinced that Odysee, Rumble, Nebula are it.

path: 0 781527, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
TwoFace211 2 points 3 years ago

When did YouTube disable adblockers? In the last 24 hours?

path: 0 764802, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 6
kdave 2 points 3 years ago

Turns out hiring thousands of people and hosting tons of data gets expensive, especially as your customers (advertisers) stop spending as much on your product. After a decade of cheap money being thrown at them by investors to grow grow grow, interest rates has made new debt far more expensive and the need to turn a profit is here. On top of this, their primary source of revenue has shrunk as most companies cut back on their advertising budgets, again because money has gotten tighter now very quickly.

path: 0 742095, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
mochi 2 points 3 years ago

It's because the 2024 election is coming up.

path: 0 736663, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Zoldyck 1 point 3 years ago

Online fascism.

path: 0 729940, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
zedtronic 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 746764, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Zoldyck 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 729979, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
CrypticCoffee 1 point 3 years ago

It couldn't be collusion, could it?

path: 0 729868, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1
herzberd 2 points 3 years ago

Kind of? It's certainly companies actively moving towards shittier services at the same time as others, but I don't think it's as much of explicit and intentional collusion as it is high school clique prom politics and VC money drying up post rate hikes. There's more of a focus by investors on generating profit over growth at this point because money is no longer free. The safest play for a lot of these boardrooms is to not stand out as a company not realigning priorities to reflect this.

Facebook did layoffs? Okay we have too as well or we're not in the same big boy class as facebook. ... See? We're safe, money please

path: 0 729868 744655, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Quetzacoatl 1 point 3 years ago
path: 0 731703, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
kazumakiryu 1 point 3 years ago

Quite simple. Greed got to their heads and people became tired of dealing with their bullshit.

path: 0 767663, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
realcaseyrollins 1 point 3 years ago

Simple: being favorable to users isn't profitable, and the US economy (in which Silicon Valley) is in the toilet at the moment

path: 0 755654, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
aarRJaay 1 point 3 years ago

They've got you - you're addicted and/or locked in and the hastle of moving to alternatives is too great. The short answer is : 'They no longer need to be favorable, they have you, your data, and your friends and it's too much effort to go somewhere else'

path: 0 6939992, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
dottedgreenline 1 point 3 years ago

My guess is their calculations are that they're not necessarily being unfavourable to their more casual users. Which are probably the majority. People who have digested the idea of ads, don't create content and casually scroll around for a laugh or for some biased news and surface level discussions probably don't feel that much has changed.

path: 0 738146, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
cqthca 1 point 2 years ago

SOXL - an EFT for US semicondutor companies is doing well.

path: 0 8539269, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
iquanyin 1 point 3 years ago

i e read this mostly because of AI…

path: 0 1866000, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
theothermatt_b 1 point 3 years ago

It's just happening to a few companies at the same time right now.

Enshittification has been around for ages now.

https://www.wired.com/...

path: 0 770557, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
panda_paddle 0 points 3 years ago

I'm not sure YouTube ever wanted you using adblockers.

path: 0 734831, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
KD_14 -2 points 3 years ago

I'm ok with the YouTube one. Twitter dumb. Reddit not that bad but should have just charged people.

path: 0 796399, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 4
sproketboy -3 points 3 years ago

ESG

path: 0 770863, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 5
KD_14 -4 points 3 years ago

I'm ok with the YouTube one. Twitter dumb. Reddit not that bad but should have just charged people.

path: 0 796371, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 0
TwoGems -4 points 3 years ago
path: 0 767642, hotness: undefined, score: -4, children: 0
GustavoM -10 points 3 years ago

For the same reason you need to get a job.

path: 0 776729, hotness: undefined, score: -10, children: 0
Anon819450514 -11 points 3 years ago

Because you can't have an open api while serving legit user and bot. The bot will eat your future snack of exploiting the data they're amassing. So you end up having some limitation to block the bots to some extend.

path: 0 754711, hotness: undefined, score: -11, children: 2
TechnoBabble 10 points 3 years ago

The only thing you can't do with an open API is exploit every dollar of value that passes through your service.

The main difference between a Silicon Valley API and a FOSS API, is the SV API is trying to get tons of people rich as fuck by exploiting you. The FOSS API can live long and prosper by simply asking for donations every once in a while, or engaging in very light-handed monetization.

There are like a million little nuances to this whole issue, and the lack of nuance is what Silicon Valley relies on to convince people that they must pillage their users, but that's the gist.

path: 0 754711 756161, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 1
Anon819450514 2 points 3 years ago

My post was being more ironic and sarcastic. You explain and nuanced it well in your post. I think people can't read between the lines sometimes.

path: 0 754711 756161 758023, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
nostupidquestions
nostupidquestions

@lemmy.world

login for more options
49488
6735
6512

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.

Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.

Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

go to feed...