Ifixit gives fairphone 5 a 10/10 on repairability and maintanence
3 years ago by DacoTaco to c/technology
While they were happy with what the fairphone 4 brought to the table, they seem to like what was changed for the fairphone 5.
What are you guys' opinions on this? A welcome change? would you get one if your phone died within the next year?
they're selling the 4 with degoogled OS in the US, so perhaps they'll do the same with the 5 at some point.
Amazing.
I'm sick of buying a new phone every three years because the battery is dead or the processor is slow, nothing can be replaced without it being wildly expensive and now it's a paperweight.
To be fair, I don't think the Fairphone will help much with outdated processors. You can't upgrade the processor inside, and it comes with a relatively slow processor from day one.
This phone is not for people that need performance; it's a very basic phone for people that value an ethical supply chain and repairability.
Relative slow my arse imo.Its all about use cases and the (potential shitty) apps you run. Been using the fp4 just perfectly fine for months, and before that the one plus x on android 11 just fine.
I would like to know what apps you use that would need the speed of anything besides the "best"?
( and for anyone wondering, one of the reasons you cant switch processor is because of the imei thats burned in. Changing that basically means that the whole id of the phone changes, including links to your mobile provider. It isnt allowed in some places )
That and supporting grapheneos would do it for me
The Fairphone 4 supports /e/.
It seems graphene is limiting itself to Pixel devices. The developer is also mostly a one man show, so I don't think he has the capacity to support many devices. He's probably just busy keeping up with Pixel devices as-is.
What I would like to know is, how do /e/ and GrapheneOS compare.
Can't really find info on that.
Calyx Os supports the FP4 and announced support for the FP5
That just to be said.
I have e os on FP4 and I would describe my experience as follows: Do you want to switch from IOS to Android without loosing the style of the launcher and gain some privacy? Go for it
If you want an Android that does a lot for you and give you tools like a vpn, a tracker blocker ect... Go for it
If you want to customize your experience (e.g. have an "normal" Android launcher, switch accent colors ...) ? You get a very rocky experience to say the best.
And at least for the FP4, some stock apps like the Cam were just not working, but to be fair it seemed like that was a suppychain problem...
I consider changing to calyx Os, expecting to get a more customizable Android.
Is e os able to use all the camera lenses? That's one problem I have with custom roms, they're often unable to hook into the camera API in order to use anything other than the main back and front camera
Check out iode.tech as well. Like /e/OS, also a lineage OS variant but with build in firewall which you can customize (or turn off). Fast security updates and great default informed FOSS apps (unlike /e/OS).
That's more up to the grapheneOS devs
True, but part of the reason they don't go for it is hardware things that are missing
I'm able to use Mint Mobile here in the States on my Fairphone 4. I believe 5 would also be compatible.
I appreciate you mentioning that, thats how I'm considering using the 5 if it ends up as my phone replacement, but I have a hard time interpreting the info around wireless frequency bandwidths supported 🙃 I like pretty user interfaces, networking hurts my brain
That's not fair
I generally try to check every few years to see if they sell to the US yet. Last I checked they would finally ship FP4 to the US, but it will only work on T-Mobile :/ gonna check back in a few more years.
Well if you're on ATT or any of it's mvno's good luck ever using any devices that isn't on their approved list. I can't even use my carrier unlocked Oneplus 7T. Really the only choice for device freedom in the "land of the free" is T-Mobile.
I've being following Fairphone since 2013, waiting for them to sell to Taiwan. After a years of waiting, in 2019 I just said fk it and bought one from official store, ship it with international packaging forwarding service. Couldn't be happier with my Fairphone ever since.
Have you tried Ubuntu Touch?
Perhaps next year will be the year of the Linux Phone. Alas, the same problems that plague the Linux desktop plague the phone. Lack of software.
It’s also very difficult to move out of the Apple ecosystem once everything just works the way you think it should. 
I'm quite interested in the developments on waydroid that would allow the use of Android apps on a Linux phone.
Linux desktop is far more mature and there isn't even a year for the Linux desktop yet. Linux mobile will probably never take off within our lifetime lmao.
Agreed. I don’t have a home computer. All of my online experience is done through my iPhone. I can’t be messing around with phones I constantly need to tweak or troubleshoot. I’ve done it to myself, but I’m okay with where I’m at rn.
I tried it on a spare old phone and found it pretty unusable tbh. Very limited application choices and I hated the UI / app management work flow.
Also I hated that by default the terminal (and superuser privileges) are VERY locked down.
It's possible I just didn't know what I was doing tho ¯_(ツ)_/¯
There was so much competition in the early days of smartphones, its sad we ended up, the whole of humanity with two choices. Meego a collab between Intel and Nokia was really unique and a good model for social media and communications. Windows Phone was good purely to have another major competitor, but the interface was way ahead of Android and iOS for providing a better mobile experience.
RIM Blackberry, Nokia, Palm, all had a red hot go. Amazon tried recently and failed, they look like they'll give it another shot with their new OS.
Yeah its just sad
I found it to be a very elegant OS, paired with a very elegant form factor in the Palm Pre. This was over 10 years ago, before Android had cemented its place, but WebOS was a bit ahead of its time, or at least out of sync with the time it was introduced. But it was a slick, intuitive OS that influenced the UX we take for granted today. I believe it was the first to have card-based task management. That satisfying "flick" to close an app was first seen on the Palm Pre.
If the palm pre had better build quality and wasnt tied down to sprint in the US I sometimes wonder how things would have played out. It was a better OS than android(especially since it was competing with the g1).
Graphene OS might interest you.
I’m not going to criticize the project, because it’s good. But, to me, using anything that gives Google an edge in controlling the direction of technology is bad. So, no Chromium products and no Android.
Try Murena on fairphone!
And I give it a 0/10 on having a 3.5mm connector
There is an adapter, buttt yeah I would really miss being able to just plug in a pair of headphones.
A second or dual charger and you can do both anyway with wireless headsets.
Yes, the 3.5mm jack is more durable than USB-C (since it is rotationally symmetric twisting doesn't apply force to the connector), it maintains compatibility with billions of audio devices and doesn't block your charging port if you use it.
Begs the question why aren't charging jacks designed like audio jacks?
If you wanted them just for charging it would be fine. Barrel jacks are still pretty ubiquitous.
If you want them to also be data they get less great. They make 3.5mm/etc jacks with 3 "pins" and I assume more. But every time you're inserting/removing the cable it's rubbing past the insulators separating the contacts. Their failure per plug/unplug is higher than something like USB-C where the 24 contacts are being pushed together instead of brushing past each other. It would suck if you put in your USB-barrel and one of the contacts broke/bent.
There are plenty of products out there that use TS style audio plugs (more 2.5mm in my experience than 3.5mm) for DC power for portable devices. When you get to data transfer requirements, the higher pin counts of current connectors wouldn't be space efficient.
See, you just described a thing and made a statement, but I don't buy that one bit. I've broken several 3.5mm plugs but never once a USB-C.
I'm on the side of 3.5mm in phones, but there's a reason XLR and 1/4" are the industry standards for audio.
They could just make magnetic connectors with a shallow socket. But those would last longer and you wouldn't need to keep buying new stuff.
CC: @Petter1@lemm.ee
I love the CC. Makes this conversation feel more formal.
too many bits of magnetic gunk collect on those for my liking. Not as much of an issue on laptops, but with a phone carried in a pocket all day it quickly became an issue for me
Idk of any phone that had them built in, I just used one of those magnetic usb adapters you find on amazon
I’m sorry what? The 3.5mm is better because it’s rotational symmetrical?
Thats a minor win. You rarely really need that rotation capability, and what little you need can be made up with thinner cables (which is easier with a digital signal and DACs in the headphone, which can’t be done compatibly with 3.5mm and people are dumb) The you also have to sacrifice connection friction to gain rotation, and that has tradeoffs, especially when that friction is caused by a spring-loaded conductor (which also means more friction likely means fewer insertion cycles before friction starts dropping off).
It also really sucks at strain relief without massive dookie springs or rubber butts…and the bigger the strain relief, the more subjective it is to perpendicular force, which is really easy to do on a 3.5mm diameter cylinder of gold-plated iron/tin alloy with the fulcrum also being at the base of the cylinder.
Other cool thing about what could be done with USB-C headphones. A lot of companies put lead weights full-sized headphones for balance or comfort (more weight makes it feel more secure). Good Modern drivers don’t need to be as heavy as they used to be. How bout instead of weights, they use lipos? Now your headphones can charge your phone (when in wired mode, hell, I’m talking about fictional mid/high-end cans, they could have Bluetooth and ANC while we’re at it since they have power), and your charger port point is essentially moot.
3.5 jack port is definitely not more durable than USB-C. If you have good headphones, the change that the 3.5 plug is gigantic in length and the cable thicc AF which causes a lot of stress in the plug due to very large leverage. Additionally, I prefer to use the DAC integrated in my headphones rather than using the low quality tiny DAC in my phone. And in digital, the cable thickness does not matter really.
Very few people are plugging their large headphones into their phones though. For a more reasonable pair of portable headphones or IEMs the size of the plug isn't a problem.
But congratulations, you have hit on my biggest audio pet peeve! DACs matter very little these days. Anything talking about DACs and not the DAC/Amp stages is marketing BS. Even dirt cheap DAC chips will acoustically transparently convert the digital signal to analog in audio frequencies because it is so basic to do. DACs on their own are useless for audio anyway, what really matters in your audio signal is the amp circuitry after the DAC that applies gain to the signal to useful levels as the choices there do make an acoustic difference if the design is poor.
What makes you think the DAC/Amp in your headphones is going to be better than the one that is built into the SoC of your phone? I don't think I've ever seen any measurements of headphone DAC/Amps.
I don't get why you get so much downvotes, because it's not as obvious as people make it out to be and there are plenty of adapters. So it's a good question.
But yes. The 3.5mm jack had the thing companies say they are striving for: simplicity.
DACs are nice and everything but the phone can just decide to not connect properly. The DAC can decide it had enough of your phone. In either case you'd need to reconnect them. And that means unlocking your phone, because a secure phone will block streaming to 'unknown' USB-C devices, unless it's unlocked during the negotiation phase. And if your connectors have become wonky for whatever reason: Well, no music for you.
And then there's the issue where you have to have them at hand when you need them. In your car, on your person, while at work.
3.5mm is great because it actually "just works". One of the few things that can claim such thing.
I recently bought a phone that lacked a 3.5mm jack, so I bought a splitter with a USBC charging port and a headphone jack. The problem I encountered was that the splitter reported to the phone that headphones were connected even if they were not. I was used to unplugging the headphones and have playback automatically pause, and resume when the headphones were put back in. With the splitter I was no longer able to do that. I don't know if I bought a cheap ass splitter or if that's the normal behavior for these things.
This is not the normal behavior, but I'd consider the adapter part of you headphone cable and just leave it on there. If you want to unplug, just unplug the headphones (including adapter) from the phone?
Negotiation is a thing for sure. It is possible, though I haven't ever seen it implemented, that digital audio over USB-C or bluetooth can be blocked by DRM. It would seem business suicide to do something like limiting audio output to certain audio products but I wouldn't put it past any short term minded profit seeking enterprise.
Yes, I should be able to play music, AND charge the phone without a 9 wire adapter like those universal charger plugs from 10 years ago. Wild concept. I wonder when phone tech will be able to support such a thing
This and most phones literally let you do what you're saying right now.
Yes, it is.
my issue right now is that i use one of those charging + 3.5mm splitters in the car, but when they're both connected there's a loud ass buzz. a 3.5mm ground loop isolator works but made bass sound terrible. i'm probably gonna get an old phone just for music in the car 🤦🏽♂️
Just get a new car pleb.
Honestly Bluetooth in a car has been a must for me for like 10 years now. And having experienced CarPlay, that’s def next (especially for cars that support wireless and have a Qi spot. Thats practically magic)
i like my car :( and i'm paranoid about features in new cars. i can hear a noticeable difference in quality with bluetooth vs wired too. never been a fan
regardless, cars that people primarily use 3.5mm for aren't going away too soon!
The car doesn't have Bluetooth connection?
I've got the Bose QC 45 headphones which can do both Bluetooth and 3.5 mm. The audio quality is the same between the two delivery methods. The only difference I've noticed is an occasional video/audio synching issue with Bluetooth which quickly corrects itself and is usually only an issue with older devices. It's my understanding that this and the audio lag issue have been solved recently in newer devices.
I personally think Bluetooth is a shit standard that has slowly been fixed over the years, but it's pretty much 100% there at this point
The real question I have is: is a decent DAC that hard to find? I bought a shit one because it's only a back-up option for me, but I can't imagine the good ones are scarce.
Attach the dongle to your wired headset.
Give it a year or two and most headphones will come with USB-C plugs. You’ll have to adapt back to the antiquated 3.5mm.
As it’s now, most things that you would plug a pair of headphones into (or their current-generation equivalent) has USB-C (or USB-A), aside from home theater/pro audio equipment
High end ones will even have their own DACs and amps, and you’ll regret ever missing 3.5mm
First, same was said years ago, yet 3,5mm is still there in many modern phones - and I for one am happy about it.
Second, if we were to move our audio to usb-c (why, though?), please make two ports instead of one. Forcing everything through one physical port adds a lot of everyday inconveniences and reduces reliability.
As well as a 5.25" floppy disc drive and betamax, you call that a phone?!? No thank you, I'll stick with my x-phone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nezImUP0w
People complaining about 3.5mm jacks remind of the people who complained about how the iMac G3 didn't have a 3.5" floppy drive. At first yeah it was weird to leave it out, but it's been 9 years since the first smartphone launched without a 3.5mm jack (the OPPO R5 in 2014).
If you want ancient tech then your options will be limited.
Ancient tech? Looks at literally every laptop and desktop sold.
Headphone jack removal is anti-consumer and any device without one is missing a key component. Why would I buy a device missing a key component?
Plus you can find wired headphones EVERYWHERE. Walk into any gas station and pick up replacements for $10. Sure they may not be the best quality, but they work. Also, no charging, just plug them into your device. Also, no setup, just plug it in.
Ancient tech? Looks at literally every laptop and desktop sold.
I can't tell you if any of my laptops have a 3.5mm jack. If they do, I'd rather have another USB-C port instead. And arguing that just because it's still used in desktop computers, then it can't be ancient, I'd like to draw your attention toward the rs232 port that still isn't phased out entirely.
Why would I buy a device missing a key component
In case I missed it, would you like to point out where exactly you're being forced to buy a specific phone?
I happen to be writing this on an android 13 phone with a 3.5mm jack (I had to check, but it's there), it's not like you can't get a phone with the connector.
i actually find this argument flawed. Bluetooth is great but does not provide feature parity. correct me if I'm wrong but aptX was supposed to be lossless audio, but it has been shown that it has compression artifacts. I'll be happy with Bluetooth only if we can have absolutely lossless audio
If you can tell the difference between well-compressed, high bitrate audio and lossless audio played on the same equipment, then you’re in the minority. However it’s pretty easy to accidentally end up with a combo of phone / app / app settings / headphones that results in a suboptimal listening experience, either because you’re using a bad codec (like SBC on any device or AAC on many Android phones) or because your music is being compressed twice. You can avoid the latter issue by streaming uncompressed music or by using a combo that doesn’t recompress your music (like Apple Music -> iPhone -> Airpods Pro/Max).
It’s also possible that the reason Bluetooth headphones sound worse isn’t because of losing information but because the headphones just aren’t as good as your wired ones. If you get a portable Bluetooth DAC like the Qudelix 5k, you can connect it to your phone and connect your wired headphones to it.
You don’t have to be happy with Bluetooth. You can buy a USB-C DAC for like $10. Apple’s “USB C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter” is 9 USD direct from Apple and it tested extremely well. You can use it on any modern phone or on your laptop or tablet, too. (You can also use the Qudelix 5k this way.)
If that adapter isn’t good enough (maybe it doesn’t output enough power for your high impedance headphones), then most phone’s built-in DACs + headphone adapters would have the same problem. Basically only Sony and LG (RIP) phones ever had especially good onboard DACs and amps, and even with them it would often make more sense to get a dedicated portable setup.
For anyone who is happy with Bluetooth, though, they don’t have to worry about all this and they get to reap the advantages of the headphone jack’s removal. The extra space can be used for more battery, if nothing else, and it’s easier to prevent dust/water ingress when you eliminate the headphone jack.
Also, I think you’re thinking of LDAC (by Sony), not aptX (by Qualcomm). LDAC is not lossless, either, but it’s much higher bitrate than anything other than the very recently introduced aptX Lossless, which - under ideal conditions - features lossless compression.
Wired headphones don't have to incorporate their own DACs, which means any budget wired set will be better than wireless one of the same price - everything can go into the actual analog part of the equation.
The adapter is extremely inconvenient, it's a small dongle that is easy to lose and you can't even charge your phone and listen to music at the same time, which I personally do very regularly. Besides, making everything go through one port increases wear and tear and reduces reliability of the device.
3,5mm jack doesn't take any significant amount of space and the value of extra teeny tiny piece of battery is ridiculously low. This has always felt like a bullshit excuse to me.
Just my 2 cents.
So, the smaller version of the connector that studios use to this day is ancient, huh?
My electrician says that woodworking doesn't need ancient tools like hammers.
Actually it's even older. And it's also not used in a phone.
The argument that 3.5mm jacks are somehow superior to a digital stream is so laughably flawed. The 3.5mm jack is a shit connector, always has been. It got its success from being paired with the original walkman, not exactly hifi equipment. The durability of the jack is wanting and a few specks of dust in the socket and you're getting static when you move about.
I don't know how many sockets I've had to replace over time because a male jack broke off in the socket. It's one thing that the jack is so thin that it can break in your pocket. But when manufacturers then mount sockets, that doesn't allow you to push the broken part out, and also uses some weird one-hung-low socket with a weird footprint that you can't source with less than a 5k MOQ, and that is only after searching for an hour. Which then leaves you having to do all sorts of weird cowboy tricks in order to have a working sound output... Then you will get to my level of annoyance with the 3.5mm jack.
All those problems are not really a thing with 6.3mm jacks, but, by all means, keep believing that 3.5mm is superior because professionals use something that looks like it, and disregard everything else.
This is not a well thought out response.
The things you mention had workable replacements and/or were the loser in a standards war. Bluetooth headphones have weaker audio, battery limitations on the headphones and the streaming device and the argument for removing them is just not justified outside of forced path to profits for proprietary headphone sales. Also, there are USB-c headphone options and problems are two fold - clunky, costly adapters and increased stress on the phone's main charging port.
It's not even close to ancient and you're argument is extremely weak.
Aux vs Bluetooth is not analogous to Betamax/VHS. It's more like WiFi and ethernet. WiFi can replace ethernet most of the time, but there are clear benefits to wired connections.
Bluetooth headphones have weaker audio
Please define "weaker".
forced path to profits for proprietary headphone sales
What are you talking about? How are you forced to buy some specific BT headphones for your phone?
And the argument about USB-C headphones being clunky? Sure, it may not be optimal, but you could always just buy a phone with a jack or give in and switch to BT.
Ethernet must be ancient tech to you.
In an end-user device? Yes, it's irrelevant. Use wifi unless you have a special usecase.
Wow, so gaming with reliable latency is a special usecase? Wi-Fi is awesome for convenience but it can never be better than wired because of physics.
The difference here is that 3,5mm jacks are not obsolete.
Nobody besides a few grumpy folks opposed the switch from microUSB to Type-C, for example, because we got something better instead.
Floppy drives got obsolete, because again, we got something better - disks! And then flash drives! Always a better, more convenient and functional option.
3,5 mm jack, however, is still completely relevant and is not replaced by anything. It is the only widely adopted consumer-grade standard for analog wired audio. Wireless audio has objective drawbacks: one more battery to control, lower reliability, poorer sound quality (not a big issue with most phones since their DACs are normally not audiophile-grade anyway, but still), higher price, pairing issues, and many more. And USB-C to 3,5mm dongles are obviously terrible: they can get lost, they don't allow you to listen to music while charging your phone/transferring files, and they are yet another component to manage.
Essentially, wireless audio has been pushed down our throats, and we do not appreciate that. For me, not having a 3,5mm jack is one of the criterions that immediately kill any desire to buy that phone. It will just be a massive pain in the ass for me, and I don't want that.
agree, and not just for 3,5mm jacks. If there is a way to do it with a cable, i will choose the cable instead of a wireless solution. The only time I didn't was with a wireless mouse that, after a while, I just kept on the cable anyway. They are so very convenient, especially the 3,5mm jack.
I don't know if it's me you're calling a troll. If it is, I can assure you that I truly believe that the 3.5mm jack is a shit connector, it's only place was in portable equipment, and that it's superceded by bluetooth.
Maybe I presented my views in an inflammatory way, but as I've stated elsewhere, I wanted to get my view across in as little text as possible. Maybe also be a little provocative, so I'd actually get people to read the comment. But I believe what I said and it wasn't formulated in that way to piss people off, just to entice and drive the point home. Exaggeration promotes understanding, but maybe my exaggerating got a little too much and disabled the understanding part.
I've been tinkering with electronics for close to 30 years by now, and my electronics engineering career is in its 3rd decade, and I have encountered issues with 3.5mm jacks time and again.
Trying to repair broken sockets or broken off jacks, still seated in sockets, is tedious and so low reward, when you can just get some BT headphones.
The BT headphones will break, sure, but I'd rather have good use of some 100€ headphones and a 300€ phone, not be frustrated by the wires tangling, and then discard the 100€ headphones when they break than the phone which can live for much longer. Besides if you're buying the right BT headphones you'll be able to source parts for it much easier than an obscure 3.5mm socket with some weird footprint.
Maybe it's not time for the 3.5mm jack to die, for some, but for the rest of us, we don't really care about it. Live and let die, but please stop moaning about it.
This is just proof smartphones are toys and not real tools.
They do everything poorly. iPhone video and photo looks like garbage compared to a real camera and now you can't even play music without overly compressed bluetooth. This is like wanting a flip phone filter for your camera. It's asinine and backward and you defend it like a lemming because HURR FLOPPY DISK SMALL. Apples and oranges. A universal connector capable of delivering a strong signal is not the same as a low capacity storage format.
But please do go on about how great your tracking device is
you do know that you could have made your point in a nicer manner, yes? why would we want to bring the strenuous tones of hollow outrage from reddit to here?
we are all better than that, even the big danish guys.
I'm sorry, but I had to say something. I'm so tired of non-technical people moaning about the out phasing of the 3.5mm jack, and especially the arguments about audio quality and vendor lock in that has been raised in this thread. I had to make sure that it was understood, that the view is not unopposed.
Could I have done it more diplomatically? Maybe, but I also wanted to drive my point home in as short a post as possible.
I asked chatgpt to help out rewriting my comment, but with your criticism in mind. It came up with:
While 3.5mm jacks may seem like a staple, it's worth noting that technology evolves. Much like the transition from 3.5" floppy drives, change takes time to be widely accepted. The omission of the jack in smartphones isn't about dismissing tradition but adapting to newer, more versatile alternatives. It's been nearly a decade since the OPPO R5, and as technology progresses, embracing these changes can lead to a broader range of innovative features.
I don't want to bore people to death, but I can also see now how perhaps I could have attacked the technology instead of the people.
We are better than our old /u/ on reddit, and we must strive to keep it that way. Competing with reddit on toxicity, will be a fight we'll never be able to win.
Thank you for calling me out on my BS, and helping us all to keep the fediverse a better place.
Being an electronic engineer and a programmer I would categorize myself as a "technical person". I am also a person that prefers devices that are as reliable an repairable as possible. A headphone without a battery and with a replaceable cable can last you literally decades. A TWS one, will not.
To add to that, using a dongle means a separate device that can break (and is most likely not repairable), that isn't necessarily compatible with anything you plug it in to, that has a dac (which is redundant since your phone could use the internal one if you had a 3.5mm connector) and that will cause extra battery drain (regardless of how much more, it's more than 0).
There are literally 0 benefits to removing the headphone jack. Several people have even shown that devices that "don't have enough space" for it can be modded to add the 3.5mm jack and you don't even lose any functionality.
Removing the headphone jack is a step backwards.
Technology evolves?
You need an extra clump of stuff in your pocket that's terribly unreliable now or your top shelf standard audio equipment now needs replaced by our branded earbuds that sound terrible. PROGRESS.
This isn't progress. This is forced obsolescence. Literally everything about it is worse. I can put my phone in a plastic baggie when it's raining, but I'm not carrying around an extra fucking DAC/amp everywhere. I just have to deal with crappy wireless earbuds.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=9-nezImUP0w
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The number of comment that says " I would buy one, but" is amazing !
What this company is doing is what every company should do, from laptop to tablet. As well as tractors. Dot being able to repair what you buy is fundamentally flawed!
TBF it's not available in the USA, and a lot of us are in the USA...plus even if we got one, a lot of the bands wouldn't work, so it's not like you'd have a good connection with it.
This is the reason why I never bought an Asus phone despite hating our primary options in the US (Samsung, Apple, Google) and really wanting one. It seems most manufacturers forget that T-mobile bands exist despite them being nearly tied for #2 in marketshare in the US.
Yea so many damn good phones basically are useless here in the states. It sucks.
How tragic. I'm sorry. As a dirty Yuropoor I'll buy one in your place and enjoy it for you.
Please do lol, I'd love to own one but it'd be a wifi brick at best here state side.
It's compatible with most of T-Mobile bands.
"Not available" in a given country doesn't really mean anything these days. You can buy anything online and get it shipped anywhere. The question I have is does it work on American wireless networks? Because if it does, you can figure out how to acquire a phone...
Framework ship laptops to Australia and has a headphone socket. Great company. Great products. Great experience, highly recommend. I can't recommend products that don't sell and support in my market. I don't have any loyalty to Fairphones or Steamdecks or any other product from low effort companies that don't ship beyond NA or Europe.
You're right, it is amazing. These people are giving honest constructive criticism of a product. Companies often have to pay money to get that information. These complaints are generally valid as well.
The company's commitment to repairability is commendable but it's in lieu of other important factors. If I have to make the choice between having the newer OS with stronger, more powerful hardware or the ability to repair my device I'm going to choose the former every time. From the get-go the device might last longer simply because I won't want to get rid of it as quickly. The 5 is of course a significant improvement over previous releases but it's still behind. If they can deliver a device that is not immediately outdated in comparison to other phones of similar price then this would be a no brainer for me and likely others as well.
Similarly availability is another major factor. You can't buy what you can't get your hands on. Even more importantly it's even more futile to buy one for a network that doesn't support it at all. Obviously the creators just aren't ready to expand into another market and that's fine but it doesn't make the criticism any less important for their mission.
For the same price, a Fair Phone is always going to be outdated. They can't scale as much as the big manufacturers can and they (are trying to) avoid slave labor etc.
It's simply not possible to be as cheap as the others who do everything to be as cheap as can be.
Yet they don't sell in the USA, and they don't have a headphone jack. A company meant for repairability and reliability not having a headphone jack. That's like when framework removed it from the 16 inch laptop.
I don't think your comparison to Framework is justified since 1) they made a headphone jack expansion module that's available along with all the other ports and 2) the Framework 16 has 6 expansion bays instead of 4. If you need a headphone jack you get a 25% increase in configurable ports, and if you don't need one you get a 50% increase in ports. Plus, you can easily switch between those two cases.
- that is a solution to a problem nobody wanted.
- Technically 5 if you're using one of them for the headphone jack (which you wouldn't need if it was included on the device ready). Also the one with 4 already has a headphone jack included, so you'd still have 4 available ports.
And 3.
They're small and I could lose it and would have to spend even more money for a replacement.
If my FP4 dies in the next year, I will fix it. Because iFixit gave it 10/10.
I would love one of it wasn't so big. I'm sick of big phones.
Got a Zenphone 9 because I don't really care about wireless charging. The hardware is great, but the software has it's problems sometimes, like some missing QoL features. On the upside: Not nearly as much bloatware as other phones, especially Samsung ones.
To me I'd still say the ZenFone isn't a small phone. Not only is it bigger than my current phone (pixel 3) its also bigger than some phones in the 2010s that were lauded for their large screens. We literally have no mainstream small phones, what we call small now are just smaller than the ginormous ones that have been normalised.
Samsung basically has a duplicate app installed for each stock Google app. And I think short of disabling it via adb, there is no option. But Samsung has really turned around and has a relatively good update policy in place. If not the Pixel, then Samsung is okay for me. I had love to have the Fairphone but it seems like they sell in limited markets only worldwide.
I'm still using a S10e, seriously considering buying another - it still suits my needs.
Yeah, I'm writing this on an s10e but the battery really isn't that good anymore and the lack of security updates doesn't feel good either. The current s series phones are roughly the same size as the e though, so I hope it'll be okay.
That said, even the e is a bit too large for my taste. The top left corner is pretty much out of reach without adjusting your grip, so about half an inch less of screen would be preferable imho. Samsung's one handed mode is much better than the android default though, which kind of makes up for it - and there's just nothing smaller available.
Agreed, I happened to just make this mockup chronicling my journey through screen sizes. I loved the HTC One m7, the pixel 2 despite being a bit larger was still comfortable because it still has a "chin" at the bottom. I thought going to the pixel 5 would be fine and I chose it because it's within ~1mm of the same body dimensions, but I forgot to account for the screen going all the way to the top/bottom - trying to press the back button at the bottom of the screen with 1 hand is so much more of a stretch and it sometimes makes my hand sore. Given that I've had the P5 for a while and my hand still hasn't adjusted I just can't go to a bigger phone, especially since the P5's increased height over the 2 lower screen bottom compared to the P2 makes it want to flip backwards out of my hand when I'm trying to reach down to the back button. At a minimum I need my next phone to be same or smaller than the P5.
(Comparison: https://i.imgur.com/gAc306o.png )
That said, I get that FP wants to make a repairable phone that appeals to the masses, and it might hurt that mission to cater to a specific crowd instead of competing with the veritable hand-tablets that other companies are producing. I just hope that they grow large enough to be able to make a "Luddite" version though with a non-cramp-inducing size and a headphone jack. I don't care either way about headphone jacks but I feel like there's a lot of overlap between the crowds that want smaller phones and people who want headphone jacks.
Agree, I want something that fits in my pocket and that I don't have to perform hand gymnastics to use.
As soon as my FP 3 dies they will hopefully have a new phone with a headphone jack. In 10 years or so.
Honestly I'd probably buy a phone without a camera before I'd buy a phone without a headphone jack.
I was sold on the idea of a fairphone but that's a dealbreaker to me. I very briefly owned a phone without a headphone jack (borrowed from a friend while my current one was in repair), having to think of that stupid adapter all the time was hell.
I have 2 main problems with that:
- My headphone cable is long and sometimes it gets tangled in all sorts of places. The adapters are small and flimsy, if I leave them on the cable I assume they'll break soon. I have no problems with a broken headphone cable as it is an easy and cheap fix. I don't think the adapters are seriously fixable tho.
- Everything else uses a headphone jack everywhere. I have yet to see a use for USB-C to audio jack anywhere else. Which makes sense as USB is digital and audio is analog. I assume many people have no use for headphones outside of their phones, I am not one of those people.
Yeah, that's what I really don't get about all the people in this thread. No matter how many headphones you have, the adapter is like 10$ at most. Just get as many as you need to always have one where you need it
I don't intend on turning this into some sort of fight but to me your comment has big
"I don't see the problem why can't other people just have enough money"
vibes (Also I checked and an adapter costs me 12$ on Amazon). I don't think you intended it this way, so I'll shut up now.
As to my actual answer:
- Leaving it on headphones is not an option to me (I explained it above)
- Buying one for every jacket might work, but what do I do in summer?
- Please correct me on this but afaik it's not standardized
- USB output is usually digital, while headphone obviously require an analog signal. I assume the vendors just use certain pins in the USB jack for transmitting the analog signal while keeping the rest grounded.
- I know for certain that Samsung adapters don't work on OnePlus phones for example.
I could go on, but there's honestly no point. We're different people with different uses for our phones/headphones. I won't buy a phone without a headphone jack as long as I still have wired headphones.
I would buy one in a heartbeat if it was smaller.... My S22 barely fits in my pants pocket, and barely usable with one hand.
Still waiting for compact phones to return...RIP sony xperia
Ye, latest rom i found back then was a lineageos rom that was android 11, june 2022 release iirc ( or 2021? ). It was awesome and worked great. Alas, after 8 years it is now my spare phone incase of issues :)
S10e forever.
People just don't seem to buy compact phones. The IPhone mini was a flop.
Yeah it's a shame the processor also wasn't that power efficient yet. The new Snapdragon Gen2 would bring insane battery life to small phones.
I laughed when I saw the size of it. It's the same size as the S23 ultra...
I have an S21 Ultra, so the size doesn't bother me too much. But the Fair phone is objectively a worse device on every level. I want something S23 nonplus non ultra sized if I'm going for an average long lasting daily phone.
RIP sony xperia? I just got a Sony Xperia 5 V and it's a great phone. Maybe a bit tall but the width makes it very comfortable to use with one hand.
Genuinely curious, is it the lack of Bluetooth earphones? I can't remember the last time I saw someone using wired earphones
It was definitely a showstopper when Apple first did it because most people were still using wired earphones, but these days everything is wireless
Not who you asked, but I also refuse to buy a phone without a headphone jack. I am constantly listening to music/podcasts/audiobooks on my phone while out and greatly prefer using wired headphones over wireless for a number of reasons-
-Bluetooth can be finicky in connection. No matter the pair I've used, just the act of walking can make the connection falter at times and there's no way to fix it
-Bluetooth headphones have a much worse cost/performance ratio than wired when it comes to sound quality.
-I use the mic when taking calls and even a cheap wired mic is dramatically better than any bluetooth one
-Wired headphones don't have a battery. This is huge for me. I hate, hate, hate it when caught out and my headphones run out of battery. Additionally, batteries put a life span on electronics that I like not having to think about with my headphones.
-Simplicity. If I want to use my headphones, I plug them in. If I don't, I unplug them. I can quickly switch to a new device when I want to use them on something else. I don't have to think about what they are paired with at any time or fiddle with it when swapping devices
-Small case, but I like that when I need to take my headphones out for a bit, I can just ease one out and leave it wrapped around my ear rather than deal with the case just to talk to a cashier
For me it's mostly two major reasons: Security and ease of use.
I don't leave Bluetooth turned on unless I actively need it.
And wireless headphones are just one more thing to charge. I've tried them. It ended up more of a hassle than just..plugging in a wire.
No, it's because of batteries. At least for me. We're creating more ewaste by shoving Bluetooth earbuds down our throats due to no headphone jack.
Edit: Currently rocking the Pixel 7 Pro, and once I'm done with this phone (I hope to have it for at least 4 more years), I hope Sony still has headphone jacks on their phones. Since that's what I'll most likely go for.
My $350 Motorola phone has a headphone jack and an SD slot. And apparently superior build quality from what I've seen of my girlfriend's and coworker's P7s.
Same here. I work long shifts and know that some 200MAh batteries aren't going to cut it for long before being thrown in the trash. I have some nice BT headphones that I use at home or on flights but my primary pair are still wired.
I could plug a MIDI keyboard to my Galaxy Note 9, play it on FL Studio Mobile and send the audio to a mixer
BT delay is such a pain in games. And honestly for me not needing fucking batteries for every damn device in my life is a highly preferred feature. Fucking hate that every device has a separate time limit that I have to keep track of.
Not OP, but some cars don't have bluetooth. My 2009 honda civic didn't have bluetooth for music. It had bluetooth, but just for the handsfree calling (really dumb), but I also swapped the head unit myself to an android head unit. While there are adapters for USB-C to aux, I found the ones I got weren't super reliable. My phone doesn't have an aux, but I wanted one. I made the sacrifice of no aux to get 5G on a different model phone instead. It's worked out, but when looking for phones in the future having an aux port is a point in that phones favor.
I use wired headphones and I use an aux jack in my car. I have a set of BT ones I use if i'm walking around but if I'm stationary (which is the case 90% of the time I'm using my phone) wired is better. Better sound, no battery to worry about failing, no BT delay turning everything you watch into a shitty dub.
For me it's the micro SD card. Which the FP5 has... but I use my phone for emulators, and their phones aren't as powerful as I would need. Also, they don't sell in the US, so I couldn't use it even if I wanted.
I would buy one if they shipped globally and it was about 100-150€ cheaper. The specs are not worth 700€. I would also need official GrapheneOS support as well.
The specs are not worth 700€
That's what those specs are worth if everyone who's part of it gets compensated for their work appropriately.
Imagine the price of a Galaxy S23 if Samsung actually was fair to everyone involved.
It wasn't free. You paid for it
this is great! i have a friend who needs a new phone and is ordering one, and i'm gonna get my hands on it to help him out and eventually flashing LineageOS on it if it comes out
i just wish they complied with the android stack security features so that it would be compatible with GrapheneOS. it would be the perfect phone
I would like to know about ASS, too.
I really like the idea of these phones and I’d really buy one of my employer wasn’t providing me a phone and allowing me to use it for my private stuff.
Of course, it might be expensive for the hardware, but just look at the price of a non repairable and non ethical iPhone.
Well I would buy the Murena version of the Fairphone. The one with /e/os installed. Apparently everything works on it, without google learning too much about you.
Thanks for the advice, but I’ve already thought about it a lot and I see more advantages than inconveniences. But if course I agree with you about the risks involved.
I wouldn't say the Fairphone 5 wins prizes for looks or functionality but it does show that it is entirely possible to make a phone with a replaceable battery and repairable components in a modern form factor. If they, a small boutique phone maker can do it, then there is absolutely no excuse that Apple, Samsung, Oppo etc. cannot do the same.
One failing of Fairphone is you cannot buy the mainboard (the core component) from their store. All the other components yes, but not the mainboard. The core is not just the CPU, flash but also some other things like microphone are on it. It would also be nice if people could order all the parts that make up a Fairphone 5 and assemble one entirely from scratch.
I've also read through their ethics / green reports in the past, and while it talks it up with "supply chain engagement" reports and so on, most of their components are still made to order by Chinese OEMs so how far does it go down the chain in reality.
I have already made that comparison, and still have found it double the price of other cases that you describe.
Cases from recycled materials should be cheaper, as they are don't having to purchase virgin material, not more expensive.
Anyone charging a premium for recycled material products is usually targeting and taking advantage of 'green' customers.
The ability to recycle most plastics in 2023 is pretty standard unless they're overly cleaning or bleaching the material, in which case it is no longer environmentally friendly.
I have just recently bought a FP5 as well and I wouldn't trust myself without it. Without a case it's pretty slippery. And just because it's easy to repair the screen doesn't mean I risk it getting broken more than necessary. So the 34 Euro I paid definitely was worth it. Especially considering it's made out of recycled material.
I feared that the fingerprint reader would be hard to reach with it, but luckily it works pretty well. A slight touch is enough to unlock it.
I would totally buy one if they brought it to the US.
I would love to get one.
If it works it's likely not supported officially by any carrier (this probably also applies to Canada and possibly Mexico), but it's at least not for sale in the US. Not sure if it's sold to all of Europe or just the EU/EEZ however.
Yeah I'm a techie but not super well versed in mobile tech so I didn't want to roll the dice. I'm happy with graphene os on my pixel though, and supposed to get 8 years of support out of it.
I was happy with my s20+ but EOL on it was in like Feb so I jumped on black Friday when I could trade in and pay $500 for an 8 Pro.
You can technically. But you might not get service in certain areas because it doesn't have support for all of the US bands.
I came really close to importing one until I found I couldn't use 5g, and there'd be very little LTE support for T-Mobile.
Ended up getting a Pixel 8, hopefully they can get it to the US sooner than they did the FP4.
Ive been considering GrapheneOS. I only really use Banking, Android Auto and occasionally Maps from the play store (although I LOVE Organic Maps).
I've had a fine time with GOS so far. If you just want to lessen Googles grip on you instead of going balls deep on security/privacy, it's been just as fine as a stock rom. You can install play services as a normal ass app sandboxed and control it's perms to get your push notifications and if an app doesn't work out the box there's a compatibility mode that lessens the GOS behind the scenes workings so it'll run.
I don't have any map app yet, but all my banking apps work (one with compatibility mode) and haven't had any issues with anything so far.
Graphene doesn't and won't ever support android auto, sadly, it's the only thing I miss
Edit: well, that's what they said, but now it's optionally available!
Has anyone had success importing one into the US to work on T-Mobile?
I will be buying one. Sorry, the 3.5mm jack days have passed. The perceptible quality difference from current gen BT headphones is negligible for 99% of people. If you are in the 1%, listen on your dedicated hardware at home, but dont bog down item specs for the rest of people.
I'm fairly(pun intended) certain my next phone will be a Fairphone. What would be the main reasons not to buy it? I don't mind the size, I don't need an amazing camera but I do wish it had a headphone jack. That said, I expect to flash Lineage on my OnePlus 6 and use it a bit longer, to avoid e-waste for a bit.
OK specs overall but too big for me and no headphone jack, I wouldn't get one.
The FP5 still have some strange overheating issue. Some day I go from 90% et 10% in 2 hours, sometime it takes 2 day, without any changes in my usages. A reboot fixes it for a time, but I have to do it every 2-3 days...
Even though I really want to support them, I don't think I could get used to it. I really hate large phones, I tried to get used to them but eventually I always switched back. That is the dealbreaker for me, but I also don't like that it has a slower processor, worse cameras, and worse battery life than my 3 year old phone.
There are things missing from this that I want but the better sourcing and the dedication to a responsible platform makes me want to get one. I'm in the states though so I have to get a reshipper in order to get one which really sucks because it's going to jack up the price anywhere from 40-100 euros.
I like repairable hardware and own a Framework laptop. It has a headphone socket that I use every day. If Framework made a phone I might be interested. If most fairphones end up paired to disposable wireless earbuds with limited battery life that end in landfill I don't get how that is more sustainable than adding a socket for the declining but still sizeable number of people who cling to wired stuff that just works.
My rugged mid-range Nokia refuses to take damage. The thing is cursed. I have dropped it so many times it is ridiculous. It might be years before I replace it. Has a jack as well. Made me totally re-evaluate what I value in a phone. I realized I am not a feature/performance fetishist. I want solidly made gear that has regular updates.
I would love to get one of these, but I'm in love with my foldable. If they ever release one (I know, pipe dream probably) I will absolutely snap it up. But I just love my foldable so much. Can't imagine not having the big screen anymore.
If only they sold their phones to the 99% of us who live outside of Europe. 🙁
Edit: Guys, not literally 99% of the human population... It was a joke playing with the idea of "the 1%" having privilege over "the 99%"... You guys who can buy this phone "are in the 1%". No need to be a number Nazi 😂
As a pine64 fan ( proud owner of pinecill and quartz64 as daily drivers ) , i rooting for them and the pinephone. I like the idea of a linux phone, but unsure how stable and functional it is. Specially with official documents/websites needing certain apps ( government document signing, 2fa, ... ).
Still, awesome idea
Currently you can get /e/OS for the FP5. The FP3 and 4 are well supported by LineageOS and Ubuntu so I'm hopeful that they'll be coming to the FP5 too. In the meantime I'm loving the device itself. If Lineage isn't out for it by New Year I'll be trying /e/.
They meant Google. There are truly open OSes that are not quite so captured: https://itsfoss.com/...
They actually support their phones for years. You can even still get most parts of the Fairphone 2 which was released 8 years ago. New android versions are provided for a minimum of 5 years, often longer.
They also source their materials and labor as ethically as possible.
None of it is perfect of course, but considering the fucked up phone market, they're doing an amazing job.
You can buy the parts for even fair phone 2 in their website
repairability means jack shit if it doesnt get supported a year later.
I think this will be Apple's plan when the EU forces them to sell devices with replaceable batteries. The EU says end users should be able to replace the battery without special tools, heat, solvents. It doesn't say the battery can't be DRM'd up the ass, or how long or what quantity of replacement stock should be made available.
So I expect Apple will do exactly that - DRM'd expensive batteries in limited supply. So even if you wanted to replace the battery you won't be able to get hold of one. Maybe they'll allow OEM batteries but in the typical Apple way - gimping the phone and putting scary warnings on the screen that the battery is not Apple certified, that rapid charge, screen brightness, or something else is disabled. Because Apple are dicks.
I feel the price is justified as they make way less sells by employing the longevity-oriented tactics. They need to return the money somehow.
With that being said, price is still a big concern. As things stand, Fairphones are still enthusiast-grade product, being way more expensive than alternatives in the same spec range. While buyers expect it to serve them for almost a decade and put that into price calculations, they're most likely to change it quicker.
And as a person for whom the price of Fairphone 5 is two monthly salaries, I have to pass anyway. I still commit to green electronics while saving a buck by buying used phones in a good condition - super green, fairly cheap. And I recommend everyone on a budget (or even just ideologically) to do the same, as the most green phone is the one you don't have to manufacture.
More repairable compared to pretty much everything released nowadays, but no 3.5 jack. And yap, the latter part sucks
Although, to me those scores don't mean shit. Like damn, smth like 1+ 5(t) requires to remove just a few more screws to do the same stuff (yap, on mine I replaced the display, battery, and that flexpcb with ports 2-3 times). Yeah, okay, it's still has decent 7/10; but wait, what's that, crapple phone 14+ also has 7/10... Do I need to elaborate on why it's bullshit? Just software pairing alone should automatically mean negative final mark
Aaand then we have 1+ 6, which gets 5/10 despite internally being pretty much the same as op5 except the back being glass and not proper metal.
The no jack part is absolutely true and a disappointment. But you have to give credit to it's reparability. I know it has a lot of limitations, you can't swap the CPU if needed, but it's much better than any other phone.
Too bad about the software security updates and lack of security features. Might be a good spare phone though
What do you mean by lack of security features? Fairphone promises 5 Android version upgrades and security updates for at least 8 years.
Iirc the chipset, QCM6490, will lose support after 2028 meaning the device will get at least 5 years of security updates and not the promised 8. Pretty sure that's why grapheneOS doesn't/won't support it since the company doesn't keep to their promises
Edit: found grapheneOS' response again I'm not saying Fairphone is a bad company but the way they are advertising the fp5 seems kinda shady IMO based on the specs of the device. At most you'll get partial updates after 5 years since Qualcomm will drop support which is still great but don't assume your device will be as safe as a fully updated device. Then again fairphone may commit to extending the life of the QCM6490 but not sure if they'll be capable of that so we'll just have to see. I apologize to anyone who got offended for some reason I was just expressing my opinion based on the track record of the company and the specs of their device
Same thing also said by the developer of DivestOS. Fairphones are not fully patched until anywhere close to their promised support. https://forum.fairphone.com/...
Which is why I don't think I'm getting the fp. I don't want to pay a premium price for a less secure phone than one with graphene
Running android puts rather a low ceiling on security and privacy
Edit: ok look y’all, I’m stoked that there are some privacy and security-focused routes for nerds to take, but aggregate security for the average user who goes to a store and buys what the salesperson recommends is an important metric.
You don't have to use Google services on the fairphone. And if you use it without those, Android is waaaaaaaaay more private than iOS.
iPhones are barely much better than Android phones for privacy or security, despite Apple's very effective marketing. They hoover up a shitload of data.
I'll forever be skeptical of a degoogled OS that runs only on phones engineered by Google.
That is a 700+ dollar "spare phone". Must be nice. It seems like an ok phone but it's so expensive that the sustainability angle seems like pretense. My last phone (Moto G4 XT1625, Android 7) was $170 and was technologically obsolescent and physically decrepit by the time I replaced it after about 6 years. I'd like to see how many fairphones are still in use after that long.
You're paying a premium to have a fucking dongle hanging out of your ear
Thats true but I was referring to it being useful for travelers or as a work phone. Just being useful when you don't want to expose your personal device
Crap meant security updates I'll edit it in but their phones overall. The company is notorious for not providing full security updates for the promised length which can end up jeopardizing the customer. Then specifically for the fp5 there's the lack of a secure element and iirc verified boot but I could be mistaken
They provide updates for as long as Apple. More than any other android OEM.
Educate yourself before you attempt to speak with authority.
I'm really sorry I hurt your poor little fee fees 🥺🥺🥺
@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
go to feed...
@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
go to feed...
Too bad they don't sell them in the US. I would buy one immediately.
save