My father-in-law is a defense attorney for juveniles, he always said that the best thing to say is " I understand you guys are just doing your jobs, and I really would like to cooperate, but to do so I need a lawyer present".

Otherwise they can basically classify you as a combative witness, or claim that you are interfering with an ongoing investigation.

By saying that you really want to help, it puts the imperative of wasting time on their end. If you guys need the information that bad, you should be rushing to get some representation here as fast as possible.

I watched this video a few years ago. You can tell its age, but I found it very enlighting. In it a lawyer explains why you should never talk to the police even if you’re innocent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

It's fun to mock sovcit whackos, but this is the sort of thing that gives them the idea that there are magic words they can invoke that let them wallhack through the legal system. The judicial system has spent literally hundreds of years working hand-in-glove with police and prosecutors to make it as difficult as possible for the everyday citizen to exercise the legal rights that protect you from them, and only by knowing exactly how to navigate the legal labyrinth set up between you and those rights can you actually use them.

Yeah, the police should be required to ask if you wish to remain silent and if you’d like a lawyer

The police are trained to lie to you.

The police are allowed to lie to you.

They're also allowed to just be flat-out wrong about stuff. Like, for example, the law. You'd think as enforcers of the law they would be legally required to actually know the law, but that's a big nope.

The police are allowed to lie to you.

The pig is allowed to lie to you pretty much everywhere.

Not only will they lie to you, they will tell you that lying to them is also a crime. Cops are not your friend.

They are not allowed to lie in court, under oath... but they will anyway. To protect their illegal searches, their planted evidence, their bullying and excessive force, or just to save another cop they don't even like! It's called "the Blue Wall" and they will kill you or send you to prison to defend their right to be above the law...

It's my turn to share it again! The most important video for any American to watch:

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

The money should come from municipal funds. What's that? Can't afford parks and other basic services anymore? Too bad, maybe you should pay attention and vote.

They'll just have an in-house "lawyer" present in the room. Boom, law complied with, abuse continues.

Which cops? Do we have their names?

Anyone who works for that police department should get asked about it when testifying. That kind of behaviour doesn't come out of thin air. It'll be a product of organisational culture and will be systemic.

The idea that they may continue being cops is insane. They should be locked up in a cell with no doors. I don't trust them in any position in society, much even less one where they have authority over others.

But how can it nullify a plea deal that was met because of all the "proof" they had from a tortured confession? If I knew it was fake but could stop the torture sooner I'd immediately confess and plea for less time if I'm having to serve it anyways.

I've tried and failed to find an article telling this story. Do you have a link?

Please don't spread misinformation.

John Wick please stand up

Doing my part!

Somebody has to pay taxes around this here country.

To be honest, were I in that guy's position and they threatened to euthanize my dog and brought him to me to say goodbye, that likely would have been the ultimate end of my stint in free society right there. Zero chance I don't try to kill them with my bare hands when my sanity is already hanging by a thread. In my opinion this fully qualifies as psychological torture, and no person has any duty to suffer it quietly or otherwise.

The insurance company doesn't get to make that call, the courts do. The insurance company gets to dictate the premiums each cop has to pay.

We have meaningful protests but they're crushed and counter-protested with impunity. People are so dejected and alienated and yes, indoctrinated and turned against one another that it's fucking hard to get any progress.

Wtf? Lol

Play victim? Pick up a history book sometime bro. Like, covering any year from the 1700s to like...last week

Removed, racism.

But they are police officers, that's the problem. And there are still others doing this and worse, and they're all protected.

Yeah, that's a fair point. So they'd probably allow an amendment that subsidizes the insurance company with taxpayer funds and makes the total cost of coverage tax-deductible for the cops.

States are slowly removing qualified immunity, so we have that going for us

In the US cops routinely beat up unarmed peaceful protestors while being pretty respectful to armed but still ostensibly peaceful protestors.

For legitimate self defence

Those fucking bastard pigs are already an armed mob and they're more armed than we'd ever be. There's no winning against them in any "fair" fight.

Peace would be ideal. But the reality is that with the manageable sized protesters that show up, they would probably order the crowd to disperse and when they don't, you're likely to be beaten, tear gased, and arrested by some militant armed thugs in riot gear despite being peaceful. It might make rounds in the news for a couple of days then everyone would forget about it before long and nothing will change as usual. All the while the ones who sit above the law (you know, the class that cops protect) are laughing away while sipping fancy wine in their gilded towers with private security, looking down at the entertaining misfortune of the poor batteries that power their money printing machine.

It is insurance, in case the cops respond with force.

I work in police professional liability claims / litigation. The general public has no fucking idea how much money is paid for shit on the daily. Only the few that hit the media cycle. It’s truly absurd and it’s in every state and every city town Burrough etc. It should make people’s blood boil way more than it does

Not sure who you’re listening to but no one has suggested using tax dollars for the insurance.

remind me again who pays the cops salary?

They like their profit, so they drop the cops that lose them money. Cops can’t get a job as a cop if they can’t be insured.

or they just don't pay out claims, because not paying out claims, and raising premiums is an even better way of making money.

Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.

i fail to see how this punishes the community any more than paying cops tax dollars, to pay insurance companies, who would then have to deal with problems, which not only adds more bureaucracy to the problem, but less efficient cash flow.

We should be creating a legal solution to this problem, rather than a private sector solution to this problem. Cop does something reprehensible? Bar them from working law enforcement for life. Pay out with tax dollars, because it's going to be more accessible, and much more efficient than traveling through an entire insurance and claims system. I don't really mind paying tax money if it means people who were wronged by previously spent tax dollarly doos. I have a problem with a dysfunctional system that does nothing to remove the dysfunction.

Putting insurance in the mix here does nothing to remove the problem, it just disincentivizes it, while making the whole system vastly more bloated and bureaucratic.

Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.

genuine question, how is this any different from forcing cops to pay for insurance, which is paid out of pocket. Why is a for profit industry, which then leads to less state money getting to the people who need it. If we actually punish cops while benefiting the offended party, this would solve the problem.

exactly, we need a more strict system, which forces proper etiquette to exist, as well as the surrounding legal structure to enforce it.

I feel like if someone threatens to kill your dog for literally no reason other than they want to hurt and scare you, than it is unreasonable to expect that person won't attempt to use lethal force to stop you. It is also unreasonable to label that person as a dangerous, unhinged person for reacting in this way.

What do you think they hate their dog?

Sure if it came to me choosing between my dog's life and a human's life I feel like I am going to choose the human probably right? Even if they are a stranger, honestly it just wouldn't feel right to pick my dog idk... but if the human is just casually telling me they are going to murder my dog for no good reason, than I think one has ethical permission to use any action necessary up to and including ending that person's life in an attempt to stop the unnecessary murder of the dog (assuming again the dog is just chilling, existing, not hurting anyone). That is fundamentally an act of non-violence though on security camera footage it will look like an act of unhinged violence without context.

It really doesn't matter how credible the threat is, if someone makes a threat to murder your dog with a straight face they should expect the owner of the dog to attempt to use lethal force to stop them because the dog's owner/human friend is completely 1000% justified in doing so no matter the context of whether the murderer supposedly represents a "justice system" or not.

The only ethical expectation on the dog owner/human friend is to escalate their violent response in a reasonable way that allows for de-escalation at every step (i.e. don't jump straight to the most extreme response unless you have to)... which is kind of hard to suss out when you have two extremely large men threatening you in a small room within a building brimming with bigots and guns that is wrapped up in a brutally cruel justice system you might never escape if you piss the wrong cop off on the wrong day.

Removed, advocating violence.

Exactly and if they did "they took away what I loved most. Now I am the most dangerous" Those cops should never get a single night of sleep again.

And don't use any slang. In one case, they said "I want lawyer, dawg". The police later said that they thought he wanted a lawyer dog and since such does not exist they didn't comply.

The judge ruled in favour of the police.

Sorry, your argument that you asked repeatedly for your lawyer does not mean your rights were impeded. You see, our cops are idiots, and not only is that your problem, it's also your fault

What phrase should we use then?

Not exactly a high bar. The system itself is probably more progressive, but authority will always draw those who seek to abuse it no matter the overarching ideology if the institution.

Yeah. Ditto.

This is what I don't get. I'm a nurse, and since I (ostensibly) have people's lives in my hand, we are checked and double-checked, have to do continual education, and literally everything we do needs to be documented and audited.

And our goal is always to prevent harm to the patient. Why do people who can legally end someone's life not have the same, or much more strict, standards (I'm asking this rhetorically, I don't really want an answer).

It seems like adapting medical licensing and reporting requirements would help get us on the right track, or at the very least help hold police accountable.

It’s funny - I live in a neighborhood where I routinely need to call the police. They don’t show up.

If there are bad people in the police, there would be bad people without the police.

Well I do for a start. I imagine I’m not the only one.

True, but there is rarely good news coming out of the IE. Just kinda exhausting sometimes.

Ayyy! I was hoping to find my IE Lemmy users .