The instance seems to be mostly right wing trolls. I know defederating is unpopular but I don't think much is to be lost in this case and it can save the mods some headaches.
Edit: the response on exploding-heads.com to my reporting of transphobia. Courtesy of the "second in command"
Tolerance is a peace treaty, not a moral precept.
Defederating is a proportional response to a server with a top-level community dedicated to trans hate.
I think people need to remember that nobody owes one's instance federation
I'd recommend defederating from beehaw if your litmus is "views that end up harmful to trans people are promoted by the instance" as they have a lot of communities like that on there.
of course, people disagree as to what "harm to X" actually means hence the problem.
Take a look at this thread. I commented trying to encourage a healthy direction, but giving this guy proper actual scientific/medical info that would help him live a healthy life would almost certainly get you removed/banned from beehaw, and the rest of the comments are encouraging something that will harm this person long term.
This happens a lot in more "progressive" lgbtqia-style spaces, because a lot of their ideology is fundamentally something that can, will, and does harm a lot of people. Look up "detransitioners" as a good example of things going wrong.
To me, and other people who are not aligned with their worldview, it's obvious that there is harm in the ideology being pushed, and by censoring those who have a difference of view, or who try to stick to proper medical science, you end up funnelling people into paths that end up harming them.
Of course, others will disagree and think there's no harm in this (that's why they're commenting as they do). But I'm someone who's seen it first hand many times and so I simply can't get on board with that way of doing things.
It's not overtly "hateful", rather the opposite: toxic positivity. But still harmful. But my point here isn't "you should actually defederate from beehaw". My point is that what people think is "harmful" differs depending on your views and beliefs.
If I tell this guy, hey you have a medical condition called transvestism, have gyneandromorphophilia, and are at risk of further developing dual role transvestism and gender identity disorder, is that "hateful"? Beehaw probably thinks it is. But IMO that is simply helping and informing.
I could say some things about why some people here don't seem to think that people outright saying full-on alt-right shit is bad enough that we should defederate, but I don't think they'd actually understand or want to
fuck it; those people are so lucky that they've never had to think about the danger of alt-right shit as anything other than a thought experiment, the type that hasn't ever had to deal with people who fundamentally want them to stop existing
like guys, that's not "alt-right people are crazy weirdos but ultimately harmless", that's "I'm lucky because I just happen to not be a primary target for them, if a target at all, and I have mistaken this for the alt-right being of low influence"
honestly peak "I don't have to think much about politics, and haven't realized that this is an incredible privilege to have" behavior
To put another spin on it, lemmygrad and exploding heads have an old beef with each other that predates the reddit migration. Far-left vs far-right, it's not rocket science. As an example try typing in lemmygrad.com and see which instance it takes you to.
Now ask yourself what it tells people when sh.itjust.works has lemmygrad defederated but not EH. It's an endorsement, no?
No, in fact I have studied it well. It is within the established parameters, if you care to look them up. I am indeed acutely aware of the totalitarianism that is creeping further and further each day in my country.
Fascism must be ruthlessly stomped out and nipped in the bud before it can spread. It is too late in the outside world, but not here, in these small online communities.
Here, we still have a choice.
Edit: lol I just noticed you're from that instance. You're just a concern troll/crypto fascist so nvm. But I'll leave this comment up for others to read.
it's not necessarily too late in the outside world either, tbh; it's just harder
I checked it. All I see is a person with an account on an instance that allows hateful posts to go on unmoderated. Now, I could surmise that you are a regular Joe that made his account on a bad server on accident. But no. You seem to have no problem sitting at the table with those biggots. Beyond that, you are dead set on defending that horrid instance at every corner. So it's kinda hard to take what you say in good faith.
For some people, they are already living in it.
I envy some people living in developed countries; they can take what they like and ignore what they dislike.
for the downvoters
nazi accusation
to some people, everyone but those they agree with are a fascist. to others, seemingly no one is a fascist. It's rare to see people actually use the word properly, as it's kinda just become an insult. The right call the left fascists and the left call the right fascists. Meanwhile actual fascists openly acknowledge such lol.
Yeah I must confess I recently went over there and agitated them a bit. I just wanted to see what their deal was because I saw a few of them over here.
TLDR they are basically like r/thedonald, libertarian types. Use slurs as a badge of honor. Angry, sad people. Fully in favor of defederation. But I get that it's early days, and defederation is a sensitive topic. I just don't see any path to that server becoming something of value that I'd want to interact with.
I dont see why defederation is seen as a sensitive topic.
Its a great feature, designed for specifically this purpose.
Over time people will migrate between instances and land where they fit. Some people want to be abrasive cunts, and they will land with the other abrasive cunts. Thats great, they have an instance they can do what they want on.
For the rest of us though, we dont want to see their bad faith articles and abrasiveness on our feeds. No one is being limited in their speech, but they might be limited in their reach. If they want to expand their reach, they can join a more broadly federated instance and ditch the bad faith arguments and abrasiveness.
Its the kids table at the dinner party. You can join the adults table if you behave in a way that is suitable for the adults, if not go back and play with the kids and everyone is happy.
The example that introduced me to federation was like an instance getting overrun with Nazis, and everyone deciding to just cut that instance loose; let it float alone as "the Nazi instance" that nobody has to interact with.
I thought that stuff like bad actors and assholes was one of the main reasons for the idea of federation, really surprised how many people thought differently
I think people would be surprised at the amount of instances that have already been broadly defederated.
Its just that the beehaw defederation is the first "big" incident since broader adoption, and thats for very understandable reasons with a roadmap to refederation already in place.
The only people who get angry about an instance being defederated are the types who want to act in bad faith. They know if they join the instance they got defederated from they will be banned if they spruik the shit that got the instance defederated in the first place, so they are angry that no one wants to listen to their shit.
It sucks for legitimate users that get caught up, but if youre a good user willing to participate in good faith, just join another instance and carry on.
In Beehaw's case especially I saw a lot of people who came off more that they took being defederated personally or that they felt entitled to Beehaw's communities than anything
like I still can't understand why people found it so abhorrent that Beehaw temporarily defederated; they literally stated why and explicitly stated that it's probably not permanent
like they made it clear, people just didn't bother to read for some reason
My perspective isn't so much that I'd like to act in bad faith, but rather that I do not wish for others to dictate who I may speak to or what beliefs I may hold. It's one thing to have a standard of civility, respect, and polite discourse and to avoid those who do not act as such. It's another to ban/censor/close off people over a disagreement of perspective.
Defederation is top-level admins building a wall, forcing people to either have two accounts to interact with both groups, or to move and find somewhere that isn't defederated. If you don't want to see certain content or talk to someone, why not just block them? why block for everyone? I don't get that view. I avoid signing up on instances like beehaw because I know they're quick to defederate. if you want that sorta thing, why not go join them?
Or perhaps you just didn't see those who don't bother engaging in conflict?
I fully understand why you don't expect to find content there in the future, but is that a good argument to deny access to those who already have?
Exploding heads have gotten subscribers from here as well. There's an extensive backlog of topics some people find quite important - even if others don't.
I don't care for them myself, but unless they're causing problems outside for everyone else, why defederate?
If there are communities you don't want to see, you can block them as they appear.
The argument being that if they aren't blocked at an instance-level, due to how the federation works, those comments could very easily spill over into these threads. Those that do want to participate in good faith would need to create an account with an instance that is federated.
Radicalisation starts with people "just asking questions" or "just pointing out an issue with X without having anything against them", that's enough to hook some people that will go way down the rabbit hole.
In the screenshot you see exactly what I'm talking about, "I'm not racist, but I can point out issues with the BLM movement". Alright they just opened the door to people that are a bit more radical to try and find out where the tolerance ends and to others to start looking for answers with a biased premise in mind.
I invite you to watch this video (and the whole series really) that covers all of that:
I mean, there are indeed issues with the BLM movement. And this "possibly leading to radicalization" is much better than lack of critique.
Say, cultural appropriation is suddenly fine when it's black people doing it. (Talking about Cleopatra in that show, the show itself is not important, just that the "politically correct" approach to it differs.)
Or people who think that BLM is more important than actual ethnic cleansing happening in parts of the planet far away from BLM.
Of course, these issues are inherited from general ignorance and indifference to suffering of others combined with trends of virtue signaling. Same happens in many areas not connected to racism.
I've already acknowledged that multiple times.
Your comment is the perfect example of why defederation is even being considered. You're a sad, confused person who is angry at the world and takes it out on other people. One look at your comment history makes that clear.
We're trying to build an alternative to reddit and it's going to be really hard to do that if we have to fucking drag people like you along with us. You seem to enjoy making other people miserable.
I never said they were equivalent. One of the most popular posts on the server is about creating an index of libertarian/right-leaning instances.
https://exploding-heads.com/post/92733
One of the most prominent users (4 month acount!) is named maga_force.
What term would you use to describe their users?
@imaqtpie "What term would you use to describe their users?"
Nazis, probably.
I never said they were equivalent.
Comma separation implies a list of traits (users are both r/thedonald users and libertarian) whereas or/and would imply that libertarians and r/thedonald users both exist in the instance
What term would you use to describe their users?
Conservative/MAGA fits the majority of the content a lot better
Comma separation implies a list of traits (users are both r/thedonald users and libertarian) whereas or/and would imply that libertarians and r/thedonald users both exist in the instance
Lol fair enough, thats true.
I honestly thought libertarian was the more flattering descriptor, but sure we can go with Conservative/MAGA
Most people who think they are “libertarians” have no clue what they are talking about.
Proudly planting the libertarian flag on top of a few pet peeves.
Then watch them cry foul whenever libertarianism strikes in any of the soft spots they don't want touched, or don't understand through lazy ignorance. An extreme cartoonish (yet sadly real) example being something like "Keep your dirty government hands off my Medicare".
It is as disappointing to see MAGA-types try to co-opt "libertarian" for optics as it is to see the general populace so lacking in critical thinking as to take the bait hook, line, and sinker.
The term had been coopted by feudalists much before that. The term originally referred to anarcho-socialists as opposed to the growing “authoritarian” socialist trend. I put authoritarian in quotes, because that term has also completely lost its meaning.
Anarcho-communists represent.
Nazi instances will proliferate and it benefits nobody else to stay in federation with them. It makes the whole fediverse less usable and more dangerous. And whether you like it or not it sends a message to people who are targeted by them that they are not truly welcome here, regardless of whatever moderation rules are espoused.
And in North America, as in many places, these people are acting as a propaganda arm for a literal violent terror movement. Sometimes under a fig leaf of ”irony” but it makes no material difference whether they’re chuckling when they spew shit to me
Moderates: TheDonald@exploding-heads.com
I'm new to the fediverse and im kinda happy that its so easy to defederate from the more over the top instances. I'm in favor of closing the door on those psychos too.
The blueprint is there to kill the network. Make a load of accounts, spam down shit until you are defederated... Rinse and repeat.
I think the responsibility lies on the owners of each instance to manage trolls on their instance. If they moderate responsibly and shut down the Nazis and trolls, nobody will defederate them. If they don't moderate effectively and their instance turns into a cesspool, they'll get defederated by everybody except other trolls.
That's the whole point of the fediverse. You run your instance, and based on what users on your instance do, other instances decide whether or not to federate with it. And if that results in multiple federated networks that don't federate with one another, that's fine too. You can't keep fascists or tankies from downloading server software and setting up an online forum. But you can keep them out of yours.
That place is gross. They have a parent community that is just trans hate. I can't imagine spending so much energy being a hateful idiot.
Defederation should be the LAST and FINAL option. From what I understand, this is a small instance that isn't causing much trouble outside of their instance. Block them on your own! I'm on lemmy.world, but personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post. I don't think we should start going around defederating communities that we disagree with, even though their opinions are shit, vile, offensive, and disgusting. Leave it up and block them on your own.
Edit: 10 years ago I used to be one of those intolerable fucks. Yes - exactly like them. Until I talked to other people on Reddit, real life, and listened to other ideas. I had a change of heart and hope even a couple of them could too. It happens.
I think given their hateful content it is irresponsible to essentially platform their content by remaining federated. Do you really feel the need to stay up to date on the latest transphobic meme and covid conspiracy theories?
I don't feel a need to stay up to date, no. But reading about what those idiots think doesn't hurt my ego or ruin my day. I just like to have an idea of what the "enemy" is thinking. I don't want to live in an echo chamber. The sub isn't even THAT bad compared to what I was expecting. They've got some gross posts, don't get me wrong. But it's not NEARLY bad enough to warrant defederating. Most of the posted content is moderate-right. Defederating is silly in this case.
Removing those that wish people were dead for existing doesn't create an echo chamber.
If they have users calling for violence and those users are not being banned that is one thing. If they have odious opinions on trans healthcare that's completely different.
De-federation should be used for instances that promote literal violence. Blocking should be used on communities and posters who have opinions that you can't stand.
It's not a matter of the opinions being unpopular and thus toothless. By federating with them we are giving them a larger platform to get their message out to those who will believe it.
You don't see their communities unless you subscribe. If their users are posting in our communities and breaking the rules of the communities then their posts will be deleted and the users banned.
There are moderation options other than de-federation. De-federation is an option of last resort to protect the greater community from violence, abuse and crime. De-federation is not a tool for sending a political message.
You can personally block that entire server and you will never see anything from them.
Tbh that sounds like how people are pushed into extremism. When an open dialog is kept, there is at least a chance a thought provoking discussion would change a mind, even if it's just one mind. I don't really know, I don't mind defederating in this instance ftmp, nothing of value for me there so whatever.
I guess these ppl are already extremists, so 🤷
I agree with this. Isolating communities that have odious beliefs only lead to those beliefs being echoed and intensified in their small spaces, and hence become more extreme over time. It’s not “nipping the issue in the bud” like many people seem to think it is, it’s the complete opposite. Past a certain line we definitely should cut ties, but I guess it’s debatable where that line should be drawn.
They know they're acting like dicks, they're openly proud and revel in it and it's a core, fundamental part of who they are. Hateful bigots such as them don't have any interest in changing who they are or improving their behaviour, they will just shift the goalposts and double down every time they are challenged. It's been proven time and time again that they are not looking to be reasonable.
100%
I don't like how r/conservative handles their moderation but I don't think their subreddit should be nuked.
But things like Men Going Their Own Way, and The Donald or any other subreddits promoting violence and direct hate deserve removal (or de-federation). De-federation should be used as a tool of last resort. For places who are turning to actual violence or outright hatred.
I cannot stress how strongly I disagree with exploding-head's stance on Trans rights and racism but if someone has an odious opinion on gender affirming care or trans athletes then they should be met by people who counter their ideas. Simply cutting them off into isolation provides zero chance of changing their minds.
I understand that some people have no interest in debating people who disagree with them, and that is entirely ok. Block any community or poster that you find offensive but defederation is not something that should be used regularly.
Yes exactly. Just like there are idiots in real life, we ignore them and move on. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if we disagree with it. Sure people can spout some nonsense devoid of facts we can down vote if thats the case .
You might disagree with someone on politics but like the same sports team for example. There are humans on either side so like in real life we can get along and don't need to agree on everything.
If something is illegal or its hate speech or something like that then report and block the user and the content.
If you don't like a community you can block it but if we shut off instances all of the time I can guarantee you the fediverse will just turn into isolated echo chambers and we'll all be forced back to corporate walled gardens.
If we can coexist in real life we can coexist here.
We need our views challenged to grow. Being corrected is a good thing thats how we learn. Life is short at the end of the day let's not try to take it too serious.
❤️
holy shit, how do I even begin to explain that you can't just "ignore" Nazis and racists and transphobes and letting them keep their platform
you do understand that they hurt real fucking people, right????
I agree all the way.
"personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post"
The shit they post is the gateway to worse things for some. You're still free to go check what's going on over there, it doesn't mean they should have access to our space.
Where did I say there's nothing wrong with what they say?
In the OP you've got the perfect example: "I'm not racist but I can point to BLM and criticize it..." that's exactly how you plant the seed that leads some people to racism, with that "but".
I'll share it again and again: https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g
Communities keep deciding not to react to alt-right users until it's too late to get rid of them.
..... are you saying you can't criticize BLM?
also that yt link lol
i probably already watched it but will again cuz i remember liking it.
upon rewatching a few minutes of it, i can see there's a few fallacies here and there but doens't mean it's wrong.
final edit: wow does he make a shitfuckton of assumptions to just say "if we allow jordan peterson to have a youtube channel we're killing poor black people"
It's always funny as, non American, to read about this naive anti- censorship slogans. Hateful political groups never stay in their places and play nice everywhere else. They brigade and harass every fucking time. There's a reason why every place without moderation turns into a absolute toxic cesspit.
Not the prettiest instance, but have they caused any real trouble outside of their own instance? Not much of a fediverse if we just defederate from instances that lean different politically. Especially seems like a weird move to go defederating on other instances this early given y'know, that we just got defederated from beehaw because of one misbehaved asshole.
Bigotry is a matter of personal taste. I found some posts from trans subs talking about cis white men killing people, but I didn't try to censor them because I'm an adult and possess the ability to ignore them.
I'm not saying we should immediately defederate, but the reason I originally went to check them out was partially because of this comment and the reply from dick@exploding-heads.com
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/207742
When he made that reply, it got rapidly upvoted to +7, while my comment was also sitting at about +7. This morning, several hours later, when a bunch of actual sh.itjust.works users woke up and read the thread, the ratio of votes changed in my favor.
I fear that we are going to deal with a significant level of brigading from that instance, and unlike reddit we don't really have any tools to combat that.
They also had a good laugh about the troll who posted here about getting us defederated by beehaw. They really don't like beehaw, or gay people in general.
It's whatever but we are already defederated with lemmygrad.ml and I feel like this stuff is on that same tier.
this is an interesting post-reddit effect, we have people of all different types and motives seeking new places.
A lot of people seem to think this is an all out battle between a new community and reddit. Like we have to beat them or something. The situation with reddit is not a win-lose, reddit would never go dark overnight. A lot of users are just over reddit and moving on. I personally don’t care about lemmy becoming the next reddit nor do I really care what happens to them.
A big difference to me with this migration is the instances seem to attract like minds. This is going to be a very interesting event to watch how the fediverse grows and changes.
I personally do see this as a war against reddit and the corporate internet. But we are just marshaling the troops, we aren't about to march into battle.
I think this migration is different for two reasons.
Firstly, because the main users who were alienated were the mods, app devs, and long time redditors. The composition of the exodus is infinitely superior to the voat migration for example.
Secondly, because the platform of Lemmy and the fediverse provides actual value due to the ability to federate. You can't get the combination of access and protection that this platform might eventually provide on regular social media.
https://exploding-heads.com/post/100772
Many of the trolls on that thread aren't actually from that server, but they clearly reside in the same dark corner of the internet. But yeah its not really as bad as I thought in terms of needing to defederate, I thought they had over 1k users acting like that but I guess I just replied to the wrong person because the server is mostly dead.
But I have to say, I've never encountered people with such a burning hatred of redditors. Again, it's whatever but I wouldn't be bothered if we did defederate.
Your continuous misrepresentation of Exploding Heads is depressing. Burning hatred for redditors? Where do most of the anti-reddit posts on Exploding Heads originate from? Mostly from the new instances. You say dark corners of the internet, but we're digital neighbors.
If you check the timestamps on that thread you linked you'll see the non-EH people attached themselves to my comment from god knows where. It was unwanted, unsolicited, I've never seen them before and they used it as an example to show how a lemmy thread works. I blocked most of them, that's why you see my engagement disappear.
That's the example you use.
I was here years before you guys. I've seen the lemmyverse struggle. I have advocated so hard for openness, inclusiveness and communication through interconnectivity - all the while saying that people should block what they don't like or find offensive.
I find this whole thread symbolic of the culture you all on average have brought with you. Prejudice, misrepresentation, moral reprisals... I had it enough conflict, I know Exploding Heads won't block you and I know I can't be bothered to individually block thousands and thousands of users accusing me of the most horrible things, like being a Nazi.
At least you guys won't have to block two known prolific shitposters maybe having opinions other than yourselves, mostly in a space you'd have to seek out.
By being on the sh.itjust.works you are personally as responsible for this as the average exploding-head user is responsible for a few of our idiots posting on the internet. I'm leaving lemmy until full instance block is available for individual users so I won't ever have to interact with the type of average user I've seen on sh.itjust.works. Or at least in this thread.
You all drove me away from this platform. At least I have the decency not to seriously argue that you all should be disconnected from other instances.
If you are bigger than us (by a factor of 100?) and we can't really affect you much, is the fear of substantial downvote brigading perhaps a bit unnecessary?
Don't feel like I'm accusing you of brigading, you seem like the type of person who'd rather have a discussion than just anonymously downvote.
If anything, based on your previous statement about seeking out a different community to rile them up, trolling would be more correct.
Well for starters, your instance users are pretty much the only ones popping in and complaining that we're defederated from lemmygrad, despite it not affecting you at all.
Y'know, since you're on a different instance and all.
Attempting to exert influence on a different instance seems kinda like the federation attempting to affect this instance, no?
Being openly bigoted isn’t a “political leaning” though, and it’s against lemmy.world’s code of conduct as stated on the sidebar link: https://mastodon.world/about
Provide a friendly, safe, and welcoming environment for everyone regardless of gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, political affiliation, or other similar characteristic.
No one is saying let’s ban conservatives. This discussion is about defederating an instance that seems to be crawling with alt-right trolls. I don’t understand why that would be a problem.
Like I'd hope that we wouldn't follow in Reddit's footsteps of tolerating alt-right bigotry
Defederating isn't like being fucking censored or whatever; it's people deciding that they don't want to be around you
Basically near-every instance did this for Lemmygrad with zero complaint, so it's fucking weird that there are so many people complaining now when it comes to an instance teeming with alt-right bigotry
Reddit didn't tolerate alt-right bigotry. What are you on about?
And yes, defederating is censorship. I had a burggit account because I liked the name, but then once they got defederated from everything, I needed to make a new account. That's censorship.
Lemmygrad, Exploding-Head and Beehaw are all safe-spaces and echo-chambers. They won't wander outside their zone, which they haven't. Find it hilarious you're so huffy about the alt-right, but silent about multiple mods enabling pro-communist content.
Yes it did, until media brought attention to it, then they banned The Donald and Metacanada and these users just joined other subs where they spewed their poison with the admin's blessing in the cases where mods from subs that got banned were also modding other subs that didn't (metacanada mods also modding Canada).
Do not mistake inconvenience for oppression.
That is NOT censorship. Everyone on that instance still has every opportunity to say whatever they'd like. Don't cry over the fact that it's not reaching as many people as you want it to.
Obligatory XKCD about this topic.
how about that whole span of time that r/the_donald was a subreddit lmao
edit: it's not censorship if you can easily move to another instance with little difficulty and just continue from there, with most of the same communities even
people like you just think someone telling them that they don't want to hear you is the same as being suppressed
Agreed, defederation exists for a reason. Maybe if exploding heads admins get their shit together and clean up the instance they can get regenerated but as is nothing us to be gained from this federation.
If nothing else, this should count as a wakeup call to the exploding-heads admins, that if these are just outlier users they should probably be reigned in. If there is pressure to defed now, it will only increase if nothing changes. If the instance won't manage its users, that's precisely why they will get defederated.
yeah, like if anything else support it because actual talk of defederation might get the admins to get their house in order
and if not, then nobody's gonna miss an alt-right haven anyway
I support this. Keep Nazis out of my feed.
Defederation is de-platforming. These hate communities are able to recruit because let them. We give them free reign to whisper hateful falsehoods in the ears of the vulnerable, all in the name of free speech. They can be as hateful as they want on their own, but we are under no requirement to give them a platform to spread their ideologies. De-platforming works, so let the nazis chirp in their own little echo chamber. Keep their hateful rhetoric contained to their own little garden so our vulnerable youth need not be exposed. It's easy to say "just block them yourself," but that doesn't cut off the steady supply of misguided incel-larva to fill their ranks. Drown 'em out. De-platform them. Defederate now. No quarter for hate.
The issue with censoring is that as soon as you start censoring people because you think their ideas are harmful, there are those who think your ideas are harmful. yet the group doing the censorship never sees their own views as harmful. it just increases polarization, echochambers, etc. which IMO leads to more harm, not less.
I think the way beehaw goes about things is harmful, so should we defederate from them as well? Or are only the things you think are harmful what should be censored? And if the latter, who made you boss?
sh.itjust.works can decide their federation policies on their own, but defederating over a difference of belief is always odd to me. the mod message that OP shared is clear they don't allow truly hateful speech, they merely have different views on things. same goes for lemmygrad, they get defederated often but they seem quite civil despite their fringe views?
I wonder if kbin will stay the course and continue federating with everyone or if it'll eventually defederate. I hope the former, and those who wish for an instance that defederates can go elsewhere.
No one is censoring anyone. They are free to post whatever toxic shit they want. But we, as an instance, have elected NOT to listen. Censorship would be banning their instance from existing, which IIRC is impossible with federated instances. No, this is just de-platforming. We are turning off the loudspeaker connected to their instance. We don't have to give them a platform. There is no reason to do so. So we defederate.
EDIT: Let me dumb it down further. "We are removing the link to Stormfront from our home page due to their stances." Would you call that censorship? Is it censorship that I would unfriend someone because they are spewing hateful garbage? Of course not. If you really want to read that hate, there are plenty of ways to find it. We just aren't going to help you find it anymore.
"we as an instance" you're on kbin. has kbin defederated? I just woke up so maybe I missed something this morning but.... this is the sh.itjust.works community lol.
hun you're a kbinaut, not a sh.itjust.works user. You'd be unaffected by their defederating if it happens.
Hey kbin users if you want to block this domain just go to https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com and block that domain there.
This. Kbinauts should encourage using the block button, rather than demanding defederation. Curate your own experience, don't try to curate others' experience. Please and thank you :)
That's super helpful, thanks. Still learning the platform and wrapping my head around things.
Let's wait for per-user instance filters to be implemented, then everyone can block instances to taste. As long as their users don't cause trouble in our communities, there's no need for our instance to act as a moral guardians and decide what our users can and cannot see. Defederation is a nuclear option that should only be done if their instance is disrupting our instance's operation (spamming and breaking rules while in our communities).
I like that sh.itjust.works currently federates with almost everyone, and I can see a big part of the fediverse from here. It would suck having to visit multiple instance to see the whole fediverse.
If per-user instance filters are implemented, perhaps instances could have "default blacklists" for new users for stuff like exploding-heads or lemmygrad that most people don't want to see, with the option to manually un-block them if someone does want to see that.
Lemmy or Jeroba just ate my comment so let me try again.
I didn't initially want to join here, but the instance I did want to join (which is defederated with Lemmygrad, Burggit, and Exploding Heads and I think that's a fantastic defed list) is having significant growing pains at the moment, while shit just works here. I ran across my first Exploding Heads post in All and it was gross, and it seems like the tools available to me as a user will leave me playing whack a mole to get rid of all of it which I'm not looking forward to. Right now I'm planning on moving to that other instance in a few weeks once they get everything sorted out, but if Burggit and Exploding Heads are defederated here and the issues with Beehaw are sorted out (which I'm optimistic that they will be), I'm open to staying here, it's certainly the easiest option for me given the lack of account migration options, and the perks of being in a larger instance (the community search feature in Jeroba has worked well for me and I think it's due to the large user base here). I'm extremely impressed with how The Dude is handling the scaling issues and his communication with Beehaw right now, also I generally like Canadians and green energy, lol.
Mind if I ask what the instance that you’re planning to move to is? That sounds like a great defed list and I’d like to support that sort of behavior.
They're a regional instance. That should narrow it down a bit but I'm sorry I don't feel comfortable saying outright. They've been having server issues, I'd prefer to try to keep them from having moderation issues too, there's been a couple of people from shit just works brigading other instances. Most Lemmy instances have defederated from exploding heads at least.
There's no way I'm going to read all of that but I scanned it and caught a "I have many gay friends" and said ayup, there it is.
Being tolerant without limits not a good way to handle right wing trolls. Trusting right wing trolls to moderate themselves is, imo, not a route to success.
This comic, in my view, does a passable job of summarising the idea of the paradox of tolerance.
Harmful ideas should not be platformed
I think that this is a harmful idea and the moderation team should ban you for it.
See how that can get out of hand? Who gets to decide what is a harmful idea?
I certainly wouldn't trust you to do it. Would you trust me to do it?
We should absolutely not turn to defederation as a first action. You know how traditional social media bans opinions that are not acceptable according to themselves?
We must be better than that. It creates a ridiculous otherwise where people think everyone agrees with them and they are never challanged in how they think about things.
I think we should be exposed to different opinions as long as it's within the rules, meaning people must be polite, not hateful, not breaking the law etc.
Read up on the Paradox of Tolerance, please. "We must be better than them" is a call for total tolerance, which will inevitably lead to the disappearance of tolerance, and that cannot be allowed to happen. It is simply impossible to have a community where transphobes and trans people coexist happily together, and I'll choose the side that's not trying to hurt others (trans people, in case that wasn't clear) every day.
Every censorship-enjoyer loves talking about the Paradox of Tolerance. Here's the part Popper said that they like to gloss over:
I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise.
But certainly the proposed defederation isn't the same as suppressing utterance, considering there would remain a publicly accessible instance for that speech. This would be closer to keeping in check by public opinion, since it's the action of exterior social forces.
Nobody's talking about censorship. Anybody who wants to see that kind of stuff can still just go to the defederated instance without any problem, and nobody is arguing for that possibility to be taken away.
Also, no, I'm not glossing over that part. Instead, you seem to be glossing over this part of your own quote:
as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion
In an age where transphobic legislation is passed left and right at an alarming rate, you can not tell me in good consciousness that transphobia and similar intolerant ideologies are actually successfully being kept in check by public opinion right now, and rational argument does jack shit, as evidenced by, well, the whole of public discourse about the topic apparently not having any bearing on said legislation.
Thats an interesting link, thats for sharing it.
I mean sure, I dont have a lot of faith in humanity in general. It seems the majority is unable to act in a mature way, so maybe you and the link is correct.
But I wish we would grow up as a species. We are acting like monkeys.
social media bans opinions
Hate is not an opinion
it breaks the social contract of tolerance and seeks to end discourse by killing the participants when escalated to its final form. hate groups are no more participants in discourse than fire is an architectural style for building a house.
we don't have to take seriously the folks that suggest "let's set it on fire" when discussing whether we want to build a victorian or modern style home because they are not serious people and their poor ideas have been proven idiotic too many times to count.
Definitionally is
You say we should be exposed to different opinions as long as it is within the rules and yet this instances most active communities post anti Trans hate and covid conspiracy shit. Surely this goes against our instances rule of no bigotry. Also paradox of tolerance, etc.
And so it is permitted to exist but be quarantined in defed.
I agree holy shit I went there today and there was some hateful af stuff
I often hear the argument "they'll just go elsewhere," "they'll just start new accounts," etc, to defend not censoring/defederating/blocking/whatever fascist or proto-fascist people or sites. That's not an argument, that's a commitment to rolling over for fascists and intolerance. They're bringing the fight, and not fighting back and making their lives harder is just helping them move the Overton Window further to the right, and making horrific ideas palatable.
If we're losing our minds over ~20 active users, then we have way bigger problems than that instance.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I have no issues defederating with an instance like that. I just don't think it matters much either way.
Why wait until it becomes a problem? The_Donald literally started as a joke brought over from 4chan. It grew and over time it basically went from "too small to do something about it" to "too big to do something about it" (to Reddit admins at least). Why even give these people a platform? We don't have any reason to give them space to grow.
The difference here is that there's no financial gain to platforming. If they're actually causing problems, then the response can be swift and easy because there's no ad dollars to worry about.
Again, I don't disagree with this on principle, and if TheDude wants to defederate them I would support it. I just don't see it as ridiculously urgent or dire.
Just as an outside observer - a lot of people from reddit are out searching for a new home. Convos like these will set the tone for every new entrant so you have the opportunity now, before it all goes really big like reddit, to shape a community based on mutual aid, love, earnestness instead of one focusing on building capital at any cost.
There are so so many socially conservative sites and spaces fully dedicated to those communities, big enough that even normal media covers them. But how many Gabs or Parlers exist out there for marginalized people, how many communities are willing to do the hard work of ensuring there could be a beloved community where hatred and minimization is curtailed, who don't act according to the will of private investors demanding incessant growth?
I hope there can be spaces like that which can grow from a watershed moment like this. It would be really cool if it were this one 😌
I'd really like to see a space where people who are more on the conservative side of things can speak freely and be exposed to alternative views, rather than just getting insta blocked and banned and having to go to the more extreme corners of the internet.
IDK why people are thinking he's gonna de-federate for transphobia when he has allowed the matt walsh documentary to sit on his instance for days now
seems like that instance is gonna approximate the worst parts of reddit in the future lmao
I am thankful I found a non-ban-happy home where I can see opinions I may dislike.
That's your prerogative. I hopped to a different instance that more closely aligned with what I was looking for and also appears not to be ban-happy.
I don't see exploding-heads on lemmy.world's blocklist.
You're right. I just blocked them directly.
I settled down here, exactly because it only has one blocked instance. The vibes I got when I created my account were "chill place that lets adults curate content themselves". We're free-signup and create our own communities, I doubt the admins here will just go ahead and defederate other instances left and right. I wonder, though, why aren't you on Beehaw? They seem closer to what you're looking for.
His suggestion is not a bad one. You're clearly after a more heavily moderated experience, that's what Beehaw provides.
Your reply is basically 'if you disagree with me you're a racist', that's not a way to have a conversation of mutual respect. You're not earning any points by attacking people who disagree with you.
Or you can not be an authoritarian fascist and let your users decide for when selves what they want to see. Defederating is a bitch move.
Isn't it just better to do it on your own accord?
If you do not wish they mingle with you, block the community you do dislike. You can even block individual person.
If you do not want to participate in theirs, just don't visit them.
Defederating is extreme, it takes liberties and freedom from other users, and should only be used as last resort.
EDIT: @eta_aquarid, why you are discussing this instances meta, you are from kbin.social? And then why you blocking me? Is there some sort of brigade going on here?
EDIT2: So many other unrelated instances' user come in here. Wow. There are some coordinated attacks to make sh.itjust.works worse huh?
KBIN.SOCIAL PEOPLE: This https://kbin.social/... means it is HOSTED on sh.itjust.works instance! It is NOT kbin.social post! Even if you can see from your instance!
I'm not blocking you; had you been replying to what I said?
also being blocked from an instance doesn't mean you're suddenly not able to use the Fediverse; it just means that that instance doesn't want to associate with yours
this can be fixed by just moving to another instance, or (in this case) getting rid of the alt-right shit
Defederation isn't an attack on free speech; it's a group saying that they don't want to interact with you; freedom of expression doesn't mean everyone must listen
@damon@kbin.social Many common people only joined lemmy for joining niche communities, and agreeing with admin rules.
New users here won't know beehaw stuff. Defederating robbed their communication.
We are all adults, we can block them. I do not participate in exploding-heads, I do not support many of their discussion. But when defederstion stuff comes up, I always think some new, niche users from there who do not know fediverse stuff, want to visit here. They will be the biggest victim.
Like I said, just block them yourself. Block individual that say nasty stuff. Defederation just hurt common users.
Also you are also from kbin? Why are you here discussing this instance direction?
@eta_aquarid@kbin.social I swear I can't reply to you for half an hours. Kbin probably have some issues.
But, how about nonpolitical community? How about people who do not wish to participate in drama of defederating and only want to talk to each other?
Since you are from kbin.social, the outcome of this thing does not affect you at all. I wish you do not participate any further to stir the pot.
considering that I'm definitely not the only kbin user on this thread, no?
and that "nonpolitical" thing, what does that mean?
What do we consider as so normal that believing in it or saying it is considered apolitical?
because the context here is that there are alt-right users on an instance and the instance is either doing a bad job of getting rid of them, or is completely fine with them being there
and maybe that's apolitical to you, but not to a lot of minorities
But, how about nonpolitical community? How about people who do not wish to participate in drama of defederating and only want to talk to each other?
Then by being a part of the instance that is causing problems they are supporting and enabling the problems. They can continue to participate in the conversations that they wish to participate in by joining the instances they are interested in in good faith.
Since you are from kbin.social, the outcome of this thing does not affect you at all. I wish you do not participate any further to stir the pot.
I'm also from kbin.social, but the whole point of the federation, as you JUST pointed out, is to participate in conversations across instances and provide input in good faith to create multiple perspectives. Additionally, just because THIS post is about sh.itjust.works doesn't mean it won't have an outcome for kbin.social or other instances as well.
you're leftist but aren't considering the paradox of tolerance?
like, why? What is the reason you're not supporting defederation?
@Alue42@kbin.social I can't reply to kbin.social users so I will say it here.
For your information. If sh.itjust.works defederates from exploding-heads, only those users on those communities will be affected.
Kbin.social won't. The users there still can see both sides and interacting with both sides regardless sh.itjust.works and exploding-heads defederates or doesn't. A simple example, kbin.social people can still interact with beehaw.org, right? We here can't interact with them at all. Some already made another account on another instance.
So, people on Kbin.social should not having voice on dispute between these two communities because it has no impact on them.
Why NOT kbin.social that defederates from exploding-heads then? Why MUST sh.itjust.works? Yet I see four or more accounts from kbin.social try to do discuss this thing. Why you guys from kbin.social try to do this?
I made my point in a previous comment about why I am providing input info this thread, and I'll copy it here:
Since you are from kbin.social, the outcome of this thing does not affect you at all. I wish you do not participate any further to stir the pot.
I'm also from kbin.social, but the whole point of the federation, as you JUST pointed out, is to participate in conversations across instances and provide input in good faith to create multiple perspectives. Additionally, just because THIS post is about sh.itjust.works doesn't mean it won't have an outcome for kbin.social or other instances as well.
Because we can see the discussion and it could lead to a decision on our instance as well. Just because the question was raised about your instance doesn't mean others shouldn't also start discussing it.
Do you think when the titanic started sinking the people in the front told the people in the back to stop discussing it because it had nothing to do with them?
KBIN.SOCIAL users, this is the post URL: https://kbin.social/...
It means it is on sh.itjust.works instance! It is NOT kbin.social post, even if you can see it from your instance! Speak to your own kbin.social admin if you wish to defederate from exploding-heads!
It would be a nice addition to have the ability to create instance-only communities specifically for these types of topics. That could probably be done with an automod that just deletes/messages anyone who tries to post on that community.
I was also kinda surprised that sh.itjust.works doesn't block exploding-heads as most instances I'm aware of do. That coupled with the fact that the instance doesn't block them but blocks lemmygrad made me think at first sh.itjust.works was going to be some far-right instance, but from what I've seen it isn't. Though, I don't understand why sh.itjust.works would want to federate with them, considering their content often violates the rules of the instance.
And it has begun!
https://exploding-heads.com/comment/95292
The link is from exploding heads, but it's a comment on a post on the main board for sh.itjust.works
Don't de-federate unless they're allowing the planning of violence, CSAM material, or actual abuse.
As a leftist I see it like this:
Blocking someone is: "I don't want to see this"
De-federating is: "I don't want you to see this"
Blocking someone is: Ignoring a person saying bigoted things.
De-federating is: Jailing a person saying bigoted things.
If you can't handle people saying shit you don't like then you need thicker skin. If you can't engage in a conversation with a person who shares an opinion that you fine distasteful then you need to seek maturity.
If you can't disagree with someone without physically attacking them, then you don't deserve to be part of a community. If you can't exist without abusing another person, then you don't deserve to be part of a community.
Their answer is full of demagogia ... Its scary how its good...
If they start raid, or to be meaningful we can ban the specific communities or users instead of unfederate.
I really want to be able to read them (curiosity, see the new words their using etc ).
For now we should use reports functions and see how its going ?
I'd more call their answer unhinged. Given that the guy is one of the instance administrators I think we should cut ties as it points to their administration being at the very least complicit in the far right posts on the instance.
Full of sophism (their answer) ? We should let them take the first step. Being hateful outside of their instances should be the trigger.
If we defederate easy, users don't join an fediverse but just an extra community. At this point I would prefer punbb or phpbb as old times ^^ We really lost the interest of fediverse I think in this way.
I'm not at all at their ideology just to precise. Hate them. If I should choose one side I would be more on lemmygrad XD
My POV tldr :
Users or sub community do shit -> ban/block.
Admins of an instance starting an war openly or OK with some actions comparable of -> defederation.
This post has like 50x more users than this site, why are people still talking about it
This is silly. Just block the users/instance yourself.
Given that one of the rules for the server is no bigotry, I would assume that extends to the ones we federate with from what I read.
I blocked it and still see @AyyLMAO (who is from E-H) in this thread, so I don't think it works that way. Hmm..
Nothing against that particular individual, they seem very well adjusted, but it's an easy test.
that's dumb just block the communities with a lot of subscribers - aka where all of the users/trolls are. if someone gives you grief about it, block them.
I personally think defederating shouldn't happen generally. I'd rather there be customizable user filters for either words, subjects, etc.
Like I'm not really into their content (or that of some other instances) but defederating at an instance level is kind of a giant hammer for the few folks who may (for better or worse) be interested in both instances.
Not really a fan of putting on shades so I don't have to see the nazis in the nazi bar
just kick the nazis out
you're on kbin.social, not on sh.itjust.works, so first of all, why are you voting on what sh.itjust.works does?
sh.itjust.works is not a defederate-happy instance. If you want to join a defederate-happy instance, unlike kbin.social and sh.itjust.works, consider one such as the following, where exploding-heads.com has already been defederated:
I mean, being a minority, I can't help but see that as a distinction without a difference; the right-wing, if not outright fascist, is definitely flirting with it and that already makes me want to distance myself
If you're in the US your Overton Window for what constitutes normal right-wing might be what the rest of the world sees as hateful nutters
surprising how little some USAmericans know this
edit: like our Overton Window is so far right that even the Democrats would be conservatives in many countries ; if someone doesn't comprehend the severity of this, they have little business talking about the alt-right
Normal right wing is fiscal conservatives, people who believe that society should be moving forward but don't necessarily believe that governments should be involved in everything to make it so.
What we're dealing with here and on social media in general is social conservatives, far right, alt right, call them what you will, in the end they're just people who are intolerant of anything that isn't like them.
They seem to be 3 or 4 active users, I think I know @Wigglehard@exploding-heads.com if he was on votal. One of the most active at the moment. He is far from a troll. Though he may hurt some people's feelings, he will defend your Liberty of speech.
Now something related : will we ban "fat_people_hate" ? We will ban jokes on any minorities ? Where do we draw the line ?
Something is clear in my mind : we have to band apology of genocide, war, call of violence, and such. We have to ban what would be illegal in many civilized countries
https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com There's a block button on the sidebar, then you'll never have to see anything from it on your feed here.
No. Get fucked, fascist. I should choose what content I get to see, not some power-tripping admin.
Call me an outlier, but isn't the point of using Lemmy (and similar federations) is to allow free speech? Now federations are de-federizing day one? I don't like this trend
Don’t take it out on exploding heads, I’ll stop posting here, i was only sharing music here. And asked two questions. I have helped several of your users understand how to use lemmy better. I’ve been running a community for big tech exiles. I’m not a nazi, not a troll, this will be my last post here.
As far as I am concerned there is nothing to be lost by defederating with an instance whose most active communities are devoted to transphobia and covid conspiracy shit. It's not a matter of both sides having value they bring to the table. They are wrong, and we have nothing to gain from a federations with them.
I've already watched at least two people get banned for sharing a story that doesn't jive with the popular opinion on some instances.
I don't want another echochamber.
I'm not British, but when camping my friends use the original meaning of the word "faggot".
Hey, the fire's about to die, bring us another faggot.
They say the exact same about you.
But unlike you, they are willing to engage, though nonsensically. Maybe you should try finding some common ground, or convince them, or just make fun of them if they peep their heads out of their echo-chambers, which they most certainly will not. I've been active and haven't seen a single user from exploding-heads outside of their instance.
There are enough echo-chamber verses as it is, we don't need sh.it to become yet another.
There is a very big difference between being willing to engage with those whose viewpoints are different to yours and supporting a hateful, bigoted rhetoric.
No one is encouraging sh.itjust.works to become an echo chamber because so one is suggesting viewpoints to be the basis of the instance. Only being against bigotry, which is already in the sh.it terms.
So we just wait until they're a big instance with big communities before we start considering that it might be a good idea to not let them interact with an instance that has rules against them? 🤔
Exactly. r/thedonald started as a tiny joke sub started by 4Chan that wasn't dealt with until it became a festering cesspool of hate that became big enough to be a serious problem, brigading other subs and spreading hateful rhetoric. It has to be nipped in the bud and made clear that it is not welcome.
Our instance’s rules are for our own instance. If they come over here and start spewing ridiculous nonsense, then sure, we should start banning them. For now they aren’t even causing much trouble. If they do in the future then I’d support defederating, but I disagree with jumping the gun.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to be better, just different. While I'm never going back to reddit, if the one who owns the server makes a choice on the content of their server, I can decide whether or not I agree and stay or move. THAT is what's good about this system. You can stick to the instance that follows your ideology.
No, don't defederate. Just because an instance doesn't align politically with your views doesn't mean that they have to be gone. And we should definetly avoid a mastodon blocklist situation.
If you refuse to meet someone on level ground because you consider them intolerant of your own ideas, you're the one being intolerant.
If being bigoted is wrong, it doesn't take a genius to prove that, no?
I can disagree with everything they stand for, and think they are absolutely stupid, but god damn do they have a right to be. The mentality stemmed from twitter of "They are just so wrong I wont even listen or let them talk" is so ignorant and authoritarian. What if north korea censored people for saying anything negative about their government? That would be wrong to us, but to them it is based in logic.
The internet has become so used to banning expression, it baffles me. It used to be commonly agreed apon that every individual has a right to thought, and if they're stupid it should be easy to prove them so. Nowadays everyone is censoring everyone they dont like. Some people on the right wanting to stop LGBT content, someone in this thread wanting to censor the Matt Walsh documentary. I've watched it to hear his opinion, despite how much I may disagree with him. And it brought up some good points. If the documentary is so wrong, we should put it out there to show and publicly shame, no? Censorship is the weakest form of countering, no one is the moral authority they may think they are.
Sorry to make this so long but I am tired of people being willingly ignorant because they don't like what someone said. Have a nice day, stranger I disagree with.
god damn it, this "free market of ideas" bullshit never fucking worked
people who are bigots more often than not double down on their bigotry when it's challenged
because it's not a reasoned position they're taking; it's "Things in my life aren't that great, and I don't trust those people; I am going to rationalize to myself that that's their fault" or "I just don't like those people and I want an excuse to hurt them"
like yeah, sometimes it's genuinely not knowing, but if you're constantly proven wrong about your bigotry and you keep doing it then you, on some level, want to continue being bigoted
Create a level ground then. Beehaw never said they are a level ground, they are an instance that doesnt want rightoids arguing in bad faith, the same way exploding heads wouldnt want an army of lefties coming in and injecting themselves into every thread.
A level ground where people of whatever affiliation can converse is a great idea. Beehaw doesnt have to be that place
the marketplace of ideas means fuck all when it comes to people telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to exist
Unfortunately they just have the one
I have no patience for "both sides" BS, anyone who uses it is obviously not worth listening to
Defedarating for political reasons seems stupid to me. If it's proven that the community is toxic and full of trolls, that is an argument to do it. Anyways, as other said, for now I don't think we really need some more defedaration drama
"Defederating for political reasons" is like a completely normal reason to do so. Like, why the hell should we tolerate alt-right shitheads here?
If you think this is "just political drama", count yourself lucky to not be affected by the alt-right
well congrats on being lucky so far
@chalkman >hEy cOuLd wE deFedErate wITH exploding-heads.com/
is this the best redditors can come up with????????? :guraKekw:
To me, Exploding-heads are on the other side of the same coin that Beehaw exists on in regards to fringe exteme ideologies and sensitive emotionally fragile admins. Defederating them both is pretty fucking dumb because it will create echo chambers that will in result churn out more idiots. Just block them via your preferred instance.
fucking wild to hear Beehaw being of a "fringe extreme ideology" for...
...deciding to defederate with really huge communities with lax registration requirements because they were overworked and didn't have good enough mod tools (because the platform doesn't) to deal with it?
Even saying that they'd consider refederating once those issues were solved?
In what world is this extreme, and in what world is this "the opposite of an instance that is amenable to right-wing people"? Like how could you even logically think that?
I would say beehaw is more extreme than lemmygrad. Lemmygrad may have fringe extremist views, but their behavior on social media is rather tame (at least in my experience). Whereas beehaw may have more "tame" views, they're much more extreme in their moderating.
Listen cupcake, you wanted decentralized freedom. This is what it looks like. People you don't agree with exist. Grow a pair and block them yourself.
Well it doesn't have to look like that, people can openly discuss what they want to do as a community, deal with it snowflake.
You have a group of people who want a filter bubble and a group of people who want a community.
Who do you exclude from a filter bubble? : Anybody you disagree with.
Who do you exclude from a community? : People who commit violence or abuse.
It is healthy for you to be exposed to ideas you disagree with. It keeps you from becoming a person who is never challenged and does real harm when they think they're doing the right thing.
The standard should basically be: "If this person said what they said in public, would be put them in jail?" that's what gets them banned and instances full of those people get those instances defederated.
If you don't want to hear opinions you disagree with then use the block button. Build you filter bubble how you'd like, but you don't get to control everyone else's view of opinions.
tell me that you're a white middle class guy who's never faced marginization without teling me that you're a white middle class guy who's never faced marginalization
Fuckers like you are the reasons this is going to fail. Redditor neckbeard hivemind that mass downvotes everything they disagree with.
If you're getting downvoted everywhere you go, maybe your opinions are just shit.
Downvotes from asshole Redditors usually means you're doing something right.
If you step in shit everywhere you go, look under your own shoe.
go to feed...
go to feed...
If you all think blocking a fascist server is going "too far" and you want to keep federating, then congratulations on becoming The Nazi Bar.
The "paradox" of tolerance is not some contradictory slippery slope. It is a fact of communities and must always be upheld. I hope our admin makes the correct choice.
save