'This is ethnic cleansing': Trump faces backlash over Gaza proposal
2 years ago by Peter Link to c/news
Yep. The only pushback is from the countries he wants to cleanse them into or the people themselves he wants cleansed. It's self preservation.
The left strongly disapprove, but that's it enough for a backlash. The leftists think Biden was just as bad and the right and diet-right voters don't care or are happily on board.
I guess all the “Genocide Joe” commenters aren’t getting paid to skew the election anymore, so they won’t be here to comment.
I haven't seen "Genocide Don" yet. Funny that.
Isn't Trump's middle name James? Genocide James works. And you could Photoshop him trying to look cool, like dark Brandon. But obviously just sad like some 60 year old trying to look cool at the barbeque and failing miserably, but even worse because he's older... And trump.
It's John (which also happens to be a pseudonym he's used). You could say "Genocide John," but nobody would know who you're talking about.
That's because Trump only just got in and hasn't (yet) done anything close to what Biden did in terms of genocide
They're still around unfortunately, but they are fewer in number.
Just check the downvote total to see how many accounts are still here.
Bro did you see that articicle about the x whistleblower and how elon influenced the election
I found this
https://theconcernedbird.substack.com/...
via reddit
There are a few stragglers around still. And just as sanctimonious with their tiresome and reckless high-flying rhetoric about how principled they are....
sigh.
Or, and this is crazy, Biden could have earned more votes for the DNC by using the Leahy Law and requiring Israel to stop committing war crimes if they wanted to continue to receive military aid.
Almost like it's the responsibility of parties and politicians to earn votes in a democratic system. Not the duty of voters to vote for the "correct" party, which is what you see codified in Authoritarian governments. The writers of our Constitution specifically said the reason for having elections so often was to make sure politicians were responsible to the people, not the other way around.
So the more you try to blame the voters, the more you make them not want to vote blue.
Genocide Joe. Genocide Trump. Feel better? I dont.
Hi I am here. I called Biden "Genocide Joe" because frankly that is an accurate label.
I am here commenting that I already have and will continue to shit on Trump for being a genocidal bigot.
Now can you proceed to take your foot out of your mouth?
I'm right here. Trump is gearing up to act as genocidal as Biden was but he's not there yet
Most of the genocide Joe commenters were russian bots. Those left were fooled by them.
BlueAnon in full force
I'm here. Biden is a genocidal monster, and nothing Trump can do will change that fact.
The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy on its most reluctant participant demonstrates your agenda. If Trump was in office on Oct. 7, there would be no palestinian territories anymore. They'd be under the Israeli flag and stained with the blood of American soldiers.
Yeah, you can't get away with critising Dear Leader Biden on .world
And yet, here you are doing just that.
Now, let’s all take a moment and quietly imagine what would happen if someone should go to .ml and call out Putin for being a sad little coward that can’t take criticism without windowing someone to death…
Still not hearing any trump criticism from ya...
Block me then
"hmm, funny how all the people criticizing genocide Joe disappeared"
"No we didn't, are right here"
"Blocked"
Block me dumbass
I only started using the term after the election, I wish I was paid. It's crazy how I'm expected to shut up about it for the next 4 years. Apparently, asking the dems to change their stance on genocide of everything is too much and everyone would rather stick their head in the sand. The moment someone enables it just a bit more then them, they get none of the blame and we get to wait through 4 years of shit just for them to give us literally the same stance.
Both parties enable it and are complicit. Defending either on the subject is clear bootlicking imo.
It's not just that he's much worse it's that some people somehow expected him to be better?!?
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out and you have to weigh all the other policy positions, and even then, it is clear that donvict is a TERRIBLE choice compared to Kamala.
They have no excuse. None.
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out
Not true.
You can refuse to support both of them because they are both evil, and you morally should not support evil. Even if one evil person will put more money in your pocket, or if one person will smile at you while your rights are being eroded while telling you nothing is wrong.
Here's my excuse: I'm not American, and I'm not going to refrain from criticising a genocidal monster just because Americans treat their political parties like sportsteams.
I see a lot of people actively defending Biden in this very thread
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
Read the rest of the comments. It's always the same thing. The dems lost because the voters got manipulated into thinking genocide was something to draw a line over. Well it fucking was. I still think not voting and voting for Trump of all people is massively stupid but I hate the message we are sending.
Trump isn't worse, he's the same on it. We shouldn't be calling them anything other then Genocide Joe and Genocide Trump. Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
We have 4 years to exert pressure and make sure the next candidate isn't a mossad and wallstreet plant. Instead we are infighting like peasants and trying are hardest to not hold the politicians who are suppose to represent us accountable.
Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
Now Trump has already undone most of that good, has 4 more years to cause damage, and the genocide that you "drew a line over" hasn't stopped. Nice job.
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
We're easy to dismiss that way. Then they don't have to think about how monstrous they have been to support genocide all this time.
The paid shills were running a con. If you weren't on payroll, then you're the mark.
Seeing how most of the conmen have cut and run now that the job is done, it really only leaves one option for you.
There are a disturbing number of people in this thread who feel that condemning Democrats is more important than worrying about what is about to happen to Palestinians.
As if you folks were using genocide as a tool. And it's pretty hard to read.
When you dismiss people condemning the democrats, you essentially send the message that enabling genocide is okay.
I see attacking the voters as a zionist dog whistle, to desensitize on the subject and low key make genocide something that can be overlooked for the "right" reasons.
Insulting to be said I'm using it as a tool. Every thread about it, there's multiple comments talking about the voters and using them as a scapegoat. I'm just responding to them. If I'm using it as a tool, so are you. And you are a lot more vocal about it then me.
I am dismissing people continuing to talk about the election when it's over as if it matters when people are fucking dying.
But you don't care because American politics.
Where did I make it about me?
When are you going to give more of a shit about Palestinians than American politics?
condemning Democrats is more important than worrying about what is about to happen to Palestinians.
Well, if we want to take it this way...
Yes, Trump's open declaration of supporting a genocide in Palestine is just as bad as when Biden did it. They are both fucking ghouls, and I hope they both join Kissinger, Reagan, and Thatcher soon.
I don't give a shit about Trump or Biden. I give a shit about Palestinians. And I have asked multiple people in this thread when they have ever asked a Palestinian what their needs are. You know how many people have told me when they did that? I'll give you a hint: it's less than one.
How about you?
I can't believe there are actually people who are surprised about his 'proposal' at all. Like.. everyone saw this coming, right? Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just an alarmist fearmonger. Or whatever they used to call me.
Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
Frankly, he is just saying the quiet part out loud.
Or, do you think Israel ever didn't intend to do genocide?
Oh no, of course not. Fucking Zionists.
What I meant was that it should be a surprise to no one that Trump says these things. He's been letting the world know who he is for a long time. You're right, no more dog whistles, but not exactly a surprise either.
It isn't a surprise, no one's surprised.
I don't mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide. Which was wrong-headed as it was pretty obvious that the Trump admin would double down on US support to Israel... where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
I don't mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide.
The Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic party for the Gaza genocide because the Democratic party was in power for all of the span of the genocide until Trump and Republicans took power a week ago or so.
Let me explain this to you and please listen, now the Pro-Palestine crowd will throw all the additional blame on the Republican Party and Donald Trump for being in power as the genocide worsens because we all know it tragically very likely wilI.
That is how being against this works for most. It isn't that hard to grasp.
You have to remember though, the pro-Palestinian crowd doesn't care about the rhetoric the parties deliver to the domestic American audience. Obviously the Democrats repeatedly claiming their working towards a peaceful resolution while not actually doing so, rather than Trump just coming out and taking the mask off matters a hell of a lot more than the actual damage and death happening in Gaza, but good luck convincing the loony pro-Palestinians of that.
where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
What are you referring to? Biden claimed to be "working toward" a ceasefire for 15 months then Trump's ambassador went over there for 3 days and the ceasefire immediately happened.
Trump is pro-genocide and has no problem wiping out all Palestinian life but him and Biden are equally as bad on this issue
I think Democrats did what they could, but due to Trump and Elon being buddies of both Bibi and Iran (and Russia), sectarian gimmicks have supplanted conventional diplomacy. It's now a matter of who's with what team.
But that doesn't take away that Trump is okay with ethnic-cleansing the whole area from Palestinian Arabs, to take ownership of Gaza and redevelop it for Israel. That's probably what Jared was planning for years.
"Clean out that whole thing."
He doesn't even pretend it's something other than ethnic cleansing. Just literally "clean out" the Palestinians.
And we're powerless to stop him.
And once again the media is creating apologetic headlines. I guess they want people to only realize the leopards ate their faces when they only have their Lying Eyes left.
“Does no one in the media know what it’s called when you ‘clean out’ an ethnic group and expel them from their land?” one commenter asked, adding: "Trump Calls for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians From Gaza," that is your headline.”
Of course, if USA really wants the Gaza population to be displaced, it would be consistent for them to take on a significant proportion of them as immigrants.
And they wouldn't even be undocumented migrants!
But they would still be brown :(
Trump's administration should really just come up with some sort of, 'last answer'. Something cheaper than deportation, doesn't let those undesirables the opportunity to come back in, and sends a message to any other undesirables. I just can't think of what that could be. /S
Oohhh, like some sort of solution? Like one that's final?? Hmmm...
Well at least it's not genocide!
/s
The "two parties are the same," "Genocide Joe" people are literally quibbling about that just to maintain their arguments and it's depressing.
Well after all, if you argue with them, you're a genocide supporting liberal troll. Sometimes in all caps, even!
I always tell them how many hours a week (until recently, for unrelated issues) I have spent sending emails, making phone calls and even visiting politicians' offices to beg for them to do something about the genocide and ask them if they have even sent one form email or made one phone call.
The closest I got to anyone saying they did anything of actual note was someone who hilariously told me that they couldn't tell me what they did because it would ruin their anonymity. As if there would be no possible way to put it in general terms.
I even ask them if they ever have talked to a Palestinian about what they think. But of course not. Because they don't actually care about genocide, they care about berating people and playing political games on the internet.
Performative outrage is so much easier than working towards real change though!
The closest I got to anyone saying they did anything of actual note was
Well, let me assure you, I've done more than just phone calls and emails. However, I cannot admit to them publicly.
Fuck these people, really. What did they think would happen with Trump?
They don't care. They have never cared. This thread makes that abundantly clear.
And now we would not be surprised if Trump builds some beach resorts there once the Palestinians are gone. I hope you are happy with your endorsement of Trump.
So then maybe let's not even worry about which American politician is worse and worry about the Palestinians.
An awful lot of those people are russian bots. But it's not like you can say that on pro Palestinian spaces, because any comments pointing out how delusional protest voting is or how much worse things are getting because of trump will get removed for racism.
You won't, lobbyists will always be louder than voters. It's a rigged system, but it's rigged in such a way that you can either fail or fail much harder. Other than that you have protests (which have become a lot more dangerous) and doing a Luigi. But noone cares about a few people not voting out of protest, turnout is extremely low anyway.
Hi I voted for Harris and am pro Palestinian, stop repeating the lie that we are all like this.
I wasn't? I literally just said that pointing out that trump is worse for Palestine will get your comment removed from a lot of places. I said nothing at all about Harris voters. Just that lemmy has a fascist/delusional tankie problem.
Aren't there fewer gazans being exterminated now than 1 month ago?
I wholeheartedly agree in the anti-genocidal sentiment, and I've personally been engaged in protests against it.
B-b-but muh genocide joe & both sides are the same
Both sides aren't the same, but they are in this circumstance. Don't you want more differences between the two mainstream political parties?
Fewer Palestinians die today murdered by the apartheid state of Israel than they did one month ago. There is literally no difference, both the democrats and the republicans are more than willing to sacrifice the entire Palestine to their interests in the middle east
There is literally no difference
The LGBTQ+ and all free-thinking women in America would probably disagree.
No one voted thinking genocide would end. So I’m not sure what you thought would happen. There is a shit ton of nuance and complexity to that situation and it’s not going ways anytime soon.
But for the other damage trump has promised to cause- tell me…
Did you see Kamala Harris rounding up and deporting American’s born from immigrants? Did you see her restricting trans-rights to serve in the military? Did you see her dismantling our education system? Did you see her pulling us out of climate acts?
It must be nice to be so entitled that you can sacrifice the freedoms of other people because you decided to take on a brand new single issue protest.
Especially when that single issue has been going on for decades before you ever even knew about it.
Not to mention, with Harris, we could expect her to respond to backlash pushing her to protect Palestinians, she likely could have at least been pushed by public perception to do better.
Trump is going to do whatever Trump wants to do or is paid to do because he knows his followers aren't going to abandon him, and realistically he's not having to worry about reelection at this point (either he'll term out, be made dictator for life, or decide he just wants to retire (or dies in office, which is entirely possible at his age)). No amount of protesting is going to move him.
Both are the same: genocidal monsters who want to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
most normal .ml take directly disproven by the article itself and the rest of the comment section
I'm willing to condemn genocidal monsters even if they're Democrats
Stop fucking misrepresenting the points of the people you're arguing with. Is that the only way you can "win?" If you create a straw man, and then talk about how shitty the straw man is?
Wow, impressive.
How about if they're Republicans?
Backlash only matters if he or anyone he surrounds himself with actually gives a shit.
Hell, it only matters if anyone cares, and based on the Dems and GOP in the US, neither of them really, honestly care. And most Harris supporters don't care either, as well as, well, I can safely say no Trump voters care.
Yeah it is there fault we lost!
Not the fact that democratic party did worse than nothing to listen to the voices of people with connections to Palestinians.
Someone almost literally said that to me here. That what Trump is wanting is better than what Biden was doing because this is "just" ethnic cleansing.
But that's literally genocide...
I agree. They claimed there was a difference. I don't see the difference.
It's not a competition because it's fucking moot since the election is over and all of you who think arguing this shit is more important than the welfare of Palestinians disgust me.
I mean this is a pretty weak ass take and it's not even really right. Like after this "passes" we will be fully locked in to rocketing off the edge of the climate abyss and there is nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent it. They will try with Geo engineering but that's a toss up at best.
No one will remember anyone.
Climate change has a relatively cheap and easy solution.
Aresol sprays can buy a few decades of time if things get too hot.
We already have cheap solar and cheap batteries are becoming a reality. We only need a cheap, non-intermittent energy source to provide baseload energy. Cheap nuclear power is possible and can fill that niche - we had the tech in the past and China has it today.
For about $1T a fleet of reactors could be built to extract all the excess carbon from the atmosphere in 50 years, working in tandem with cheap solar energy and cheap batteries to power human civilization.
Are you under the delusion the climate disaster is confined solely to energy production?
Also the laws of thermodynamics say that pulling all of that carbon out the air would be not only inefficient to the extreme and take centuries, it would also use far more energy than we currently produce ON THE PLANET.
I have no idea where you got 50 years from, but that's a joke. we couldn't build the shit you would need to do it in 50 years.
The laws of thermodynamics say no such thing. Plants use solar energy to extract carbon from the atmosphere daily.
We could farm fast growing crops and bury them to sequester the carbon, but using nuclear energy is going to be cheaper and require less land.
E = mc2
People really don't understand the massive amount of low carbon energy we have at our disposal with nuclear fission.
An unwillingness to use it just means we don't want to solve climate change and would rather have our little "oh noes, world is ending" panic.
China seems to be the only big economy that understands the reality and they will probably solve climate change for the rest of the planet by 2050.
Its even cheaper than your estimates...
We just need to plant trees, and get our forests to grow again. Like, the earth has these fabulous organisms that clean greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere... And they are self-replicating!
Its not cheap and not a solution.
It will give us a temporary reprieve at best. We still need to solve the issue by lowering the CO2 in the environment. Chemically speaking, you'll basically have to spend the same amount of energy to pull all the CO2 out as we got over the past 200 year by putting that CO2 in the atmosphere.
That is if we have 100% efficient machines, however. In reality most combustion engines get 30% at best. Electrical system to pull it out will do some 70%? Let's call it 50 on both, so you'll have to double the amount of energy that this cost twice.
Basically, to get CO2 back to preindustrial levels we'll have to spend 4x the amount of ALL the energy we've spent over the past 200 years.
You say it's cheap? Basically double all energy prices (and with that, the prices of everything and destroy all economies) for, say, the next 50 years or so and generate twice the amount of electricity we do now, and we'll be fine.
Why comment if you don't understand physics. I'm not saying turn the carbon into hydrocarbons, which is wat you are implying.
Carbon sequestration takes way less energy than the energy released during burning.
Here is my bOtHsIdEs Pikachu face. :|
I'm sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Pretty much the only difference is she wouldn't say it out loud, frankly. She clearly stated she had Israel's back, regardless of what anyone said. I mean, look at how she reacted to people stating, to her face, that they could not vote for her, due to that.
And what did she do? She doubled down on her support for the genocide.
She was, the only difference is she wouldn't come out and say it bluntly to the American public.
Fuck off with this nonsense. Kamala would literally push the same policies, just like Joe did. The only difference would be that she’d use vague and hollow language to keep a pretense of humanity up so people could continue pretending that they themselves are not contributing to this atrocity. Your naive picture of mainstream Democrats is why that party continues to be as ineffective as it’s been for 50 years. I welcome all the neoliberal Lemmy downvotes. Assholes.
Interesting how you're more interested in condemning Biden and Harris for this thing they didn't do than Trump for doing it. In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren't involved.
Russian propaganda is a powerful thing.
I can't even blame Russia at this point. These people seriously do not give a shit about this genocide apart from the political points it can score them.
In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren’t involved.
The difference is? Trump didn't lie about it, he said, outright this is what he was going to do. Harris planned to do the exact same thing, but with a pride flag, and it would have been a woman making the bombs being dropped onto kids.
You also seem very unbothered by this plan.
I will think back to threads like this every time I wonder why Democrats never achieve anything meaningful and the country continues to lurch toward fascism. You all seem to be more interested in team sports than actually having principles and expectations for your own party.
The "leftists" on here literally supported Trump. Their reason doesn't matter, they're fascism-enabling Trump supporters in every way that matters.
If you didn't vote, or if you didn't vote for Kamala, you helped Trump get elected. That's not politics, it's math.
Centrists are suddenly unhappy now that trump is implementing their only policy for them.
#neckpussy
You'll often see Zionists condemn Egypt and Syria for not taking the Palestinians "oh the Palestinians are so bad that even the other Muslim countries won't take them". No, they just don't want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing.
US President Donald Trump is facing widespread criticism and accusations of proposing ethnic cleansing after stating that he would like to “just clean out” Gaza and relocate its Palestinian population to neighbouring countries.
Speaking aboard Air Force One during a flight from Las Vegas to Miami on Saturday, Trump described Gaza as a “demolition site” and suggested moving its residents to Jordan and Egypt.
“I’d like Egypt to take people. I’d like Jordan to take people,” Trump said. “You’re talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing.”
He added that the move could be either temporary or long-term, saying, “something has to happen”
To everybody who voted against Kamala Harris because she didn't change her stance on Gaza, how does it feel to be played harder than a tenor saxophone?
It's a real photo finish for which admin wants more dead Palestinians.
How did we get played?
The carnage in Palestine is far reduced now than it was a month ago. I have no confidence that it will hold, but so far the only way that Trump has been worse than Biden on the issue is that Trump is explicit in his rhetoric as opposed to trying to sugar coat it. I realize that to Americans, who are only directly effected by the genocide in so far as hearing about it makes them sad, having their leaders tell them soothing lies means everything, but to those actually in Palestine, it doesn't make a material difference.
So "not sugarcoating it" is supplying the Israeli government with the penetrating bombs that increase civilian casualties that Biden halted?
Biden may have been largely indifferent to Gazans but Trump is actively hostile and will encourage the brutality in spite of other pressures such as the ICC, which we already see him pushing the ICC to relieve Netanyahu.
Genocide Joe was actually doing ethnic cleansing, so far trump is only talking about it
Edit: I guess trump is actually doing it too, they're both equally bad on this
So you agree that supplying weapons to Israel for the last 15 months was ethnic cleansing. You agree that Biden and Trump are both pro-ethnic cleansing
Oh, so now providing weapons to Israel is ethnic cleansing?
If a known mass murderer asks for a gun and bullets do you consider it ethical to give them an assault rifle and 10,000 rounds and then refuse to even remotely resist when they proceed to use those items to commit mass murder?
The day Trump actually tempers a decision based on the feedback the world gives him, I'll eat my hat. He doesn't give a shit about this kind of criticism. He's right. Everyone else is wrong. One of the few genuine stable geniuses in this world.
Love that all the pearl clutchers are in this thread to say that NOW the genocide is bad, as if they'll catch leftists in a whataboutism.
The truth is that Trump is giving the same carte blanche that Biden did to Bibi. It remains on the people of Israel to stop this conflict, as it always has. You can't pretend the genocide is only bad when your enemy is doing it, this was the same plan under Biden. Trump just likes bragging about the cruelty, whereas Biden was smart enough to pretend to care.
Both candidates are bad on one issue so it's all the same! No. Fuck you.
Well, one candidate was bad on their economic policies. Starting off with "The economy is doing fabulously, so you poor people just need to shut up, and vote for me because you owe me your vote" policy...
Voting for the guy who campaigned on taking actions that would very obviously make it even worse for the poor people, over the guy who tried many things to further help poor people but was blocked by the opposing party in Congress, was a real big brain move of yours.
Yeah... how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts. My gut tells me it's bad.
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we're doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine. What's NOT good is education, which is why people aren't smart enough to see this.
Yeah… how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts.
Oh, data you're interested in?
Ok, how about the data point that says homelessness is skyrocketing? Does that mean economy good, just because stonk line goes up?
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we’re doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine
Less bad is not at all the same thing as "doing great".
What’s NOT good is education, which is why people aren’t smart enough to see this.
Yes, people are not smart enough to see if you have mass homelessness, mass food insecurity, and people considering copycatting a CEO killer... The economy is doing great!
Genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing. V
Oh I know, but one word has a much bigger social impact than the other.
Its the same difference between molested and raped. You typically see in news headers that an adult male raped a little girl, but an adult women molested a little boy. One sounds much worse than the other, yet both are the same thing
Granted but they're not the same thing. Ethnic cleansing is more broad then genocide, and genocide TECHNICALLY doesn't have to be ethnic cleansing (but as far as I know always has been).
IMO ethnic cleansing in general can be more insidious. If you drive people from their homes and replace them with your own settlers, that's ethnic cleansing. But it's complex enough that the right wing will deny that it is such.
See: Palestine and the West Bank.
Ethical and Ethnic share a lot of letters, I'm sure that means they mean the same thing.
Stay on message, Democrats! Remember, it wasn't the Democrats fault for losing, it was those loony leftists for going against the approved narrative of the Democratic Party. The Dems aren't out of touch or negligent, and Bill Mahr is funny and relevant.
God the comments suck on this post
Do you think maybe there can be more than one source of culpability for things in this universe?
I think the problem is so many people trying to politically point score by whitewashing a bunch of Genociders by using the actions of a new bunch of Genociders.
"Yeah, but our guys' mass murdering of children was all fairies and unicorns shitting rainbows from their arses whilst those other guys' Genocide is all dark and shit" isn't the Grand Principled argument the tribalists seem to think it is.
It's kind of understandable that anybody with enough Principle in their bodies to trump tribalism is a "little" peeved at people excusing any group of willful and eager collaborators in the mass murder of children, be it the previous bunch or the new bunch.
Seems like the problem in this thread is a bunch of people trying to politically point score by not giving a shit that Trump is moving forward with this because they'd rather condemn people who are not in power and may never be in power again.
I see very little condemnation of Trump and a lot of "Genocide Joe would have done the same thing."
And fuck the Palestinians, they're just a tool in this from what I can tell from such people. How many "Genocide Joe" people here not bothering to condemn Trump have ever even talked to a Palestinian?
Re-read the posts: plenty of people who criticize Biden are also criticizing Trump.
I can't speak for others but I personally am not constantly criticizing Trump because their is no lack of criticizing Trump here so it's not a problem I feel I need to address in my comments, much less do it all the time.
It's the whitewashing of the actions of Genociders that I feel is a problem so my comments are directed at that, and in this thread so far I've only seen the actions of one bunch of Genociders be whitewashed, and that's the Biden bunch.
If this was 4chan I'm sure there would be plenty of comments whitewashing Trump's actions that I would feel the need to counter.
I'm not sure what you need explained here. Pretending it's the Democrats and only the Democrats that caused Harris to lose is silly. Sure, they have culpability. So does every person who loudly and repeatedly said not to vote for "Genocide Joe" and then "Holocaust Harris." So do people like me for not trying hard enough to keep Trump out of office.
There's lots of blame to go around, but everyone is going "not me! Not me!"
That's fine, it's nice you're taking responsibility, it shows initiative. All I'm saying, all I've ever said, was to stop defending the democrats in this, by persecuting people who voted, or didn't vote, according to their conscience. The dems should be sharply criticized for their failures. Maybe there's lots of blame to go around, but there is a higher concentration of blame where there is a higher concentration of power.
Blame actually isn't worth much to me. But the brow beating, infantalizing, condescending attitude toward working Americans while gate keeping every scrap of power, apparently just to end up losing it to the right, is an absolutely inexcusable yet predictable consequence of deep political corruption. Until you personally start organizing against it, then any blame you try to deflect away from the party by taking it on yourself will be a reflection of your ego, not your willingness to put it on the line and fight for change.
And you don't even have to be a commie like me, you can be a pragmatist/reformist and I'll give you shit but at least I'll respect the struggle. Probably doesn't mean much to you but it beats defending corruption.
Well, the truth can sting a little if you've just found out you've been fooled. The important thing is to grow up and learn from your mistake.
Someone was telling you this shit was going to happen and there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it. You decided compromise was for losers and are now reaping the rewards of your ill informed, short sighted decision. Why are you whining so much, you got exactly what you were told you would get.
So did you! You got exactly what we told you was going to happen, yet its our fault it happened. Look at this post! This whining is on your side my dude. I just can't believe you fools didn't stop with the brow beating after such a catastrophic loss. Couldn't do one fraction of a second of self reflection. I was not telling people not to vote for the democrat, but I didn't hide my real feelings either.
A movement to withhold votes against Democrats has been building for years. the uncommitted movement is ideologically closer to liberal democrats than so called tankies, but Dems threw them under the bus, called them Putin influenced for protesting against a genocide in the only way they knew how. I was fighting for Palestinian liberation in different ways, I don't really get too involved in electoral politics though I'm active politically. Never was I whining. God what projection.
It really demonstrates the two tendencies of liberalism: good conscientious people who are cool and hate injustice, vs. bloodless defenders of private capital who make noises like they care about justice so they can take power and broker influence.
Get a grip, do some actual criticism of your movement, do better for christs sakes. There wouldn't be nearly as many communists and anarchists becoming radicalized if democrats were even a little effective. They are the only force that has the power to oppose the fascists and criminals in charge of the republicans. and they blew it, time and time again. Stop blaming the people, the fucking lemmy posters for Christ sakes, and start looking at your party,and namely where they get their funding.
this may require you to read and process information instead of just repeating what some 68 year old millionaire said. Which may take some growth on your part, so maybe hydrate and stretch a little first.
I'm not defending the party, the movement, the history, the people or their choices. I'm pointing out that no one wanted to hold their nose to vote and now we're all swimming in shit.
Downvote me all you want. No amount of political theory will make the math go away. Every single person who decided to not vote, or to vote for catharsis, was a helping hand pushing Trump's ass into the oval office.
Yes, the Democrats pissed you off, yes you should have still voted for them.
Its a hell of a situation we are in, but abstracting this one political act away from the movement, the people, their choices, the history behind it all, is the only reason you are able to look at the situation in such a limited way.
I believe you, that you want to get your intentions or beliefs untangled from whatever schemes political and economic elites are cooking. It is a great tragedy that people didn't vote to keep Trump out. But if you want your individual beliefs to stand on their own and hold water on their own, then you have to extend the same courtesy to conscientious uncommitted voters.
For months people told me I was a bot for daring to suggest Biden was too old to run. Then that view was vindicated too late, and when progressives wanted to get in line behind Kamala, it was made pretty clear that other than uncomfortable noises and "concerns" about the genocide, money and weapons were still going to flow. Do you understand that this lesser evil messaging was doomed to fail? millions of voices on the left who are in no way hoping for another trump term were warning exactly this, and were silenced, not to mention beaten, arrested, kicked out of school or worse for daring to put their bodies on the line for Palestinians?
Maybe ask yourself why the most progressive stripe of voters withheld their vote, while millions of others just didn't think, maybe wrongly, that it would affect them either way. Was there a conspiracy by Russia and other countries? I mean its been established, I think, that a great deal of this goes on. So let me ask you: in this situation, where democracy is being attacked from without and within, night and day by well funded and well organized forces, do you think that a mere vote every 4 years or so is enough to actually prevent the degeneration of a democracy? Or might it take quite a bit more effort? Second question: have the democrats proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are worth that vote, so that the critical mass of rational and conscientious people in this country would not have grounds to doubt their commitment to restoring democracy and overcoming fascism?
My answer to both questions is no. This does not make me naive or idiotic, but I'm afraid that is how I am made to feel, made to seem, by the mainstream of the Democratic party. And so were hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of other Americans whose conscience would not allow a vote for genocide.
The oppression of the Palestinian people didn't begin on oct7, let's not pretend that Democrats werent culpable before and after. Therefore there is good reason to doubt the dems would have influenced any meaningful change in the conflict
No I'm saying that material reality affects peoples views more than your version where people are dumb babies; and acknowledging that, let alone standing next to us in struggle could have carried Democrats to victory, instead they abandoned even the semblance of ethics and morals other than "Cheeto bad." Some people, and you may struggle with this because of an apparent lack of empathy or theory of mind, although maybe not, are not able to cash in their ethics and morals for a pat on the back and literally nothing else, from the same people who are resolved to continue the genocide. Maybe you can, but others have more character and compunction.
Hopefully someday you have experiences that stimulate growth as a person.
And like I'm not particularly partial to taking this view of you as some kind of vampire bereft of all reason and conscience. But when you do it to others, don't get grumpy when someone calls you out on it. If you don't like the way it feels, and if you think its possible that you might take a contrary position to me because of our roles on either side of this discourse, then think about how when you do it, it affects others.
Fuck me for thinking you should be better than that!
No, what they are saying is the Dem's consistent refusal to listen to their voters, and instead thinking that voters "owe" their votes to the dems, is what got Trump elected.
there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it
State level electoral reform so people can vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect
Well never know, she's not the president.
Trump, the guy you enabled, however, Is. And he's a fucking nightmare.
He wants to displace every Palestinian by force and hand their land to Israel.
Is that what you non-voted for? Take a plane to the Gaza Strip and preach that on a corner, see how well that works out for you.
Well you sure showed those democrats by not voting huh? Like shooting yourself but calling it a win because you got blood on the other guy.
The American left has become so toxic, and splintered into micro groups with special labels who all hate each other and reject each other's support while blaming each other and calling anyone even slightly right or even left of you an enemy. Meanwhile the right was united while trump and Netanyahu played you all so blatantly and obviously and you all bought it.
Well I’m sure Gazans thank you American leftists for staying home and letting trump win. I’m sure your blaming democrats will make them feel better
Sadly you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you're voting you're supporting the status quo of the Dems really only listening to corporate backers, if you're not voting you're letting the opposition (Trump) have a better chance at office (which he did get). They're both terrible options, and I'm not sure blaming individuals who are tired of having to fight for the lesser evil instead of a better tomorrow is fair
Are you suggesting that material conditions can be contradictory, moving people to make different, equally rational, decisions for conflicting reasons, rather than just being two camps that define all moral obligations as the opposite of the other?
Someone should look into this
Biden was a poor president, maybe given Harris was his vice-president we could guess she might be a poor president also. Trump on the other hand is evil. Anyone that voted for him should be ashamed of themselves. If he was running against a bag of frozen brussel sprouts the bag of sprouts would make a better president than him.
It's the exact same as last time. Hilary would have been bad, but Trump is actively evil and destructive. I wanted Burnie, but I still voted for Hilary because it's a two party system and I understand how spoiler votes work. Now we're all fucked and I hope every single person who voted for the Orange Idiot suffers for it.
Why was Biden a poor president?
Because he funded and enabled a genocide, maybe? No betterment of worker rights, no betterment of welfare state, no meaningful legislation to improve healthcare and to make it universal, no push towards a public pensions system, dramatic rise in fossil gas exports...
He did lower the cost of medications significantly. And it was undone with a signature. He defended Ukraine, he put in a decent infrastructure bill, got some green projects in. Yeah, granted, he also allowed a former president to walk free from 90 felonies, leading to where we are now. Dude should have been on gallows and somehow he's now the president. THATS where Biden fucked up. (Please read further, I will explain that controversial point.)
And ya know? That's a pretty big fuck up. Yes, Gaza was a huge fuckup. But, I would argue that it was a cause of not hitting Trump harder and faster with the DOJ. Had he been further along in the justice system, he wouldn't have been able to even campaign. He should have been prosecuted immediately for Jan 6. There was no excuse to wait. Gather other evidence while he's in court for that, as J6ers are going to prison one after the other, trump would be in prison before going to court over stolen documents, hush money, or anything else. If he would have jumped on that, we'd be living in a different world right now. He wouldnt have been able to gather steam and likely wouldn't even have primaried. The Democrats where in an upward trajectory. Then Russia and then Israel, but, if that pile of shit was behind bars, Biden would be able to throw more weight into decisions. Who would be able to touch Biden, had it not been trump? Anyone? But because Trump was there, he played possum. If they had moved on him when they should have, our country would be getting better, instead of swan diving off a cliff. Honestly at the rate we're going, we lose hegemony and GDP to China in less than 2 years.
Honestly at the rate we're going, we lose hegemony and GDP to China in less than 2 years.
Can't fucking wait for the genocidal empire to fall
Biden was also evil. Less evil than Trump maybe, but trying to claim be wasn't evil goes beyond pragmatism and into white washing genocide.
Where's my Jill stien supports when ya need them! /s
Right here, still glad I voted for the anti-genocide candidate instead of the 2 pro-genocide candidates
Biden was already actively doing the ethic cleansing that trump is talking about
Some people are working on changing how we vote so 3rd party voters can vote how they want and still have their vote count against the Republicans.
I guess you're to busy telling people how to vote to come up with a solution to the problem you are so concerned with.
And yet you're up and down the thread arguing with them
The guy who defines everything by "great countries " and "shithole countries" wants to clean the shithole out and all the shitty people. Hmmm
It's not really ethnic cleansing because the last year hasn't been that.
ABC is an Australian government funded media
BBC is a British government funded media
CBC is a Canadian government funded media
PBS is an American government funded media
What's your point?
Two days after he was inaugurated the UN was reporting 92% of residential buildings were damaged and destroyed. The genocide was almost done before Trump got in office and people are still out here pretending Biden was any better.
EDIT: elected -> inaugurated
Biden was [poorly] negotiating peace.
Trump wants to help Israel finish the job.
If you want to stretch words that far Trump is [poorly] negotiating our climate commitments
I'm not stretching anything. Biden did negotiate a ceasefire. He could have done it much sooner if he had cut off the weapons, but a lot of that was on Congress for pushing to keep those congressionally mandated weapon shipments flowing.
Trump is actively working against the climate.
Idiotic comparisons like yours do not help anything.
I see that BlueMAGA are fully rejecting reality and embracing alternative facts to cope with their election loss.
different president, same soulless husk
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I don’t see any appropriate backlash to any of his shit so far.
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