Summary
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced retaliatory tariffs after Donald Trump confirmed 25% tariffs on Canadian goods and 10% on energy, set to take effect at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday.
Trump justified the move by linking it to fentanyl smuggling concerns.
Trudeau called the tariffs "unjustified" and imposed 25% tariffs on $155 billion in U.S. goods, with $30 billion effective immediately and the rest in 21 days.
He warned of price hikes and job losses in the U.S., arguing the move violates Trump’s own trade agreement from his last term.
Heck, make it legal to pirate all American media.
No problem, make exceptions for anything that was made involving Canada!
Producers like to film in Toronto while pretending that it's NYC. X-Men and What We Do In The Shadows are the first things that come to mind. I still find it hilarious that the "Westchester" Train Station in X1 is in Hamilton (I believe)
A more subtle crossover is that Ramona (Scott Pilgrim) is from NYC
Stargate SG-1, full of blatant military propaganda (I know it's not so bad, but), was filmed there.
It already basically is; Anti-piracy laws in Canada don't have a lot of teeth. I leave my torrent computer running 24 hours a day to seed and I don't even get emails anymore after switching to a smaller service provider.
In that case, the Candian government should set up an official service for downloading American stuff. Making it easy to find things would be worth a nominal fee for a lot of people.
No need. I'm seeding 24/7 raw dogging my connection and don't hear a peep from my ISP.
Yeah, I'm not too concerned about that. Their courts are being attacked with so much that I'm pretty sure downloading a car isn't going to be high on their list.
Im pretty sure i watched him say this on democracy now and he was a great listen
If the US is going back on the deal, then Canada should too. Make it legal to jailbreak all US tech.
That should be considered with plans for further escalation varying from nothing to an embargo.
Though arguably piracy and jailbreaking are not so bad for said domination. Microsoft practically encouraged piracy in ex-USSR at some point. Piracy solves the availability problem, supports market share, leads to short-term loss in sales but long-term growth.
But that's Microsoft, while US government in general seems to think DMCA is for them what the Sound was for the Danish crown in middle ages.
Microsoft practically encouraged piracy in ex-USSR at some point. Piracy solves the availability problem, supports market share, leads to short-term loss in sales but long-term growth.
Yup, Bill Gates pretty much said he'd rather have people growing up on pirated Microsoft products than use alternatives.
They could also make their own play store and apple store, and could charge the developers much lower fees, for the same apps that would work anywhere. It would cost them very little and be nothing but profit.
Pretty sure Canada could do as good of a job as anyone though.
Trump is such a vindictive moron. Whether he's a Russian asset or just a certifiably stupid, the end result is the same.
Good god I hate this fucking timeline. Fuck corporate America for backing this monster and fuck everyone who voted for him. Fuck the Democrats for collectively shrugging about all this too.
Whether he’s a Russian asset or just certifiably stupid
Most definitely both.
Yeah, if he was just in it for his own aggrandisement, none of this would make sense. The orders are very clearly coming from Moscow here, because only Putin benefits from all this bullshit.
And he's stupid for going along with it - a smart Russian asset US president would get something in return other than a pat on the head.
I mean presumably he's getting a pile of money. Or there's kompramat. Or, more likely, both. Also he just likes when people talk to him like he's special, I'm sure it took the KGB all of 6 seconds to figure that out and take advantage of it
unfortunately, America has created a system where we can’t really do anything about the president at this point I am really wondering how long will the global world order allow Donald Trump to continue to screw things up for everybody else? Not just talking about economics with Mexico, Canada and China. But also the military situation in Ukraine, which directly impacts the European Union as well as NATO 
The problem is that the global order is collapsing. That's what makes this possible for Trump and his companions. It's been going to shit for a while. We're entering a world where international law will be less important. Sadly.
International law was already completely irrelevant when it came to the developed world imposing its will on the entire developing world, or anyone classified as an "enemy". There are hundreds of violations across the years that were never enforced, from America carpet bombing south east asia and installing puppet regimes around the world, to Russias use of phosphorous warheads and chemical weapons in Syria, to Israel (and allies) genocide in Palestine.
International laws have only ever been, at best, gentleman's agreements among the developed world's oligarchs and political classes.
What's happening now is the US political class and oligarchy are shifting allegiance to fascist authoritarianism and imperialism, because both are populated with mentally ill narcissists and psychopaths of insatiable greed and megalomania, completely detached from reality; no different to the feudalist monarchs, emperors and pharaohs of old.
I also don't believe this is an America problem, as much as it is a capitalism problem. Americas oligarchy are no different to Russias oligarchy, who are no different to Chinas oligarchy, who are no different to every oligarchy. They are borderless, stateless, only worship wealth and power, and are a reflection of the psychology created by unchecked wealth and power; these people view themselves as the rightful rulers of humanity, by virtue of their wealth and power, and views concepts like democracy a direct threat to their existence.
Fucking phenomenal run for American upper-middle classers & up for daysssss (decades)
Staycations on every screen, DoorDash, weekends at national parks, summers full of music festivals, no air raid sirens or drafts
Little blips of economic busts and terrorism, but overall stable with a solid stock market. The climate taking its beating without much protest. The developing world manufacturing much of our own world for pennies on the dollar, their conditions out of sight and out of mind. Stagnant minimum wage, the prison industrial complex, the crimes of the healthcare industry - captivating John Oliver segments, yes, but not pressing personal problems.
waow that was a lotta work over the years from a lotta good people to get the US here, and now…
(job hunt question)
Any recommendations for organizations that might be hiring right now and looking for people who want to fix this?
We're entering a world where international law will be less important. Sadly.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: International law was never important. It was always rules for thee and not for me.
I am really wondering how long will the global world order allow Donald Trump to continue to screw things up for everybody else?
I mean what are they gonna do? Invade and depose him? We're witnessing the end of the Pax* Americana, simple as that.
*Terms and conditions apply.
Well if this were the middle east or a communist problem , western countries would just have him assassinated…which is horrible- but its true if you go back long enough
The trouble is that the problem is not confined to just Trump. If he dies, Vance becomes president. If they both die, Mike Johnson does. This is not a coup by a single person, this is an entire philosophy - neo-fascism - thats now in charge of the US. Its goose-stepping turtles all the way down.
I don't think it's within other countries capabilities (Israel maybe, but why would they), nor in their intrest.
In some failed states it's considerably easier to have certain people eliminated (and for sure has happened many many times).
Current USA is an internal affair with external effects. Other countries can't do anything, that's what happens when 1 country has the very biggest strongest military and security machine ever (way bigger than any competitor, no country get near). Even if they'ld want to, there is no way. And the current situation is unpredicatble and not stable, it would become even less predictable and less stable when certain people were to be assassinated.
If assassinations happen in the trump admin in the near future, I think it would more likely come from USA security services internally. Not sure if it's for the better. Decent chance in that case of civil war type scenarios tbh.
I'm sure there will be a welcome mat, door is open
I didn't want Trump to become president for many reasons, one of the main ones being I didn't want him to pull USA out of NATO, because it strengthens our shared enemies.
Things are actually going worse than I expected, which is really impressive.
I know people are probably sick of hearing this, but I kind of figured this would be the worst possible case imaginable because the same thing happened to Hitler. They threw his ass in jail and then after a couple of months they let him walk and then when he regained power, he knew that he could never lose power again, and if he did, he’d never be able to accomplish his personal objectives. 
There’s something about history that we can learn from here. I don’t know why Trump was even allowed to run, but yeah, here we are. 
He was allowed to run because McConnell stonewalled Obama and let Trump select a bunch of Supreme Court appointees, which then decided that trump can't be held accountable for anything.
Then everyone decided the rule of law was important, except trump, which means he's steamrolling every safeguard we had.
Plus McConnell as leader could have gotten R's to convict, at least in the second impeachment after Jan 6th, which was a short window when they would probably have gone along with him. It would have made trump ineligible to run again. So I place a large part of the blame on McConnell.
The SCOTUS ruling is just icing on the cake for trump, because once he got into power again, SCOTUS isn't going to be much of a problem for him no matter how much they might rule against him. He'll just ignore it and no one will do anything about it because the entire repub party supports him--they are the ones who would have had to check his power but they're completely on board with him and they have the trifecta, total control.
That's why I'm worried about the midterms--they aren't going to give up that power willingly which means they're more than prepared to do whatever it takes to stop a free and fair election in 2026.
I am NOT enjoying it and I'm doing everything in my power to resist this administration.
Checks instance name
In Minecraft. Always in Minecraft.
The polls I saw said the opposite.
And that's ignoring that a large percentage of those who do still support our are choosing to believe their messiah over reality and think that it will make everything cheaper; I do believe that as soon as it's no longer deniable a large chunk will turn on him. But unfortunately not all of them since plenty will be fully prepared to just blame someone else anyway
I mean then Vance would succeed him, which is... not good. At least Trump is an idiot.
Lee Harvey, ONI and Guy Bannister
Unfortunately Americans are convinced they can't do anything about it, so they don't.
I vote, I protest, I make convincing arguments to family members to not vote for morons…what else we got? I mean, within the boundaries of the law, of course
The law also exists to keep people like me in jail (I’m a racial minority, low income, and a history of violence), I could sneeze wrong near a cop and get arrested.
Spoken like a true American.
It sounds like you've completely exhausted all options. Anyone can see you have taken your civic duty to defend American FREEDOM seriously. No one has done any more than you have. History will record your deeds and future generations will say, "He voted, protested, and talked to his family. We owe him the FREEDOM we have today." Statues will be erected. Schools will be renamed. You are remarkable. I'm honoured to be in the presence of such a great person.
Although...
Reading these "History Books" it seems that some of your ancestors did find a few more things they could do. I understand if you haven't read "History Books" as they've probably been burned in your country. Sad.
Surely the US isn't the only country that has foreign leaders assassinated?...
American here.
100% support you Canada. Keep it up.
<3
We know it's not all of you.
We need to really turn the screws into the U.S. Along with applying tariffs, we also need to just outright stop delivery of critical materials they need. Full Stop.
I’m know this is just a sounding board, but honestly I’d love to see the cutting off of any and all essential raw materials they need. I’m sure they can source it elsewhere, but they most likely can’t get enough of it fast enough.
Cut off anything they need for energy and more importantly: agriculture.
People can live without power. Make their stomachs ache.
Trump is a diseased cunt who doesn’t understand what happens when things don’t go his own way. Let’s show him.
I said it before. Stop sending aluminum and steel and aerospace and military manufacturing would suffer immensely. That is 90%+ of all good made, metals have strict import requirements and certifications, and we couldn't just make our own on a whim.
Why doesn't trump just setup fentanyl production in the states? Seems like a easy fix for me /s
Just like, checks notes 96 years ago!
I thought the point of all this was to ratchet up tensions so Trump could declare martial law and suspend democracy indefinitely.
“We have always been at war with everyone but Russia and China….”
Yes, elections are run by the states, not the federal government. Will red states have fair elections? Absolutely not.
Trudeau’s measured retaliation shows Canada won’t back down but prioritizes diplomacy over chaos.
🐱🐱🐱🐱
Today I watched both Trudeau and Sheinbaum's addresses.
I must say that Americans get even worse reputation everytime Trump and Vance talk even just because of the contrast with some of the best, most prepared speakers and I must say attractive individuals in politics today.
Nobody married to president sheinbaum would be boring
Ok I've been wanting to ask this and all the articles don't really address it so I'm confused.
The whole rhetoric is that Trump's tariffs will impact the citizens with increased prices and it's really just going to cause economic harm. Like cool, I can understand that. But why is Canada then performing the same action effecting their citizens? I get it's retaliatory, and suppose to expedite (hopefully) a return to normal trade policy. I just don't get why this is the move when it's a bad move in the first place (two wrongs don't make a right and all). Please be gentle, I'm honestly just confused.
There really aren't any other moves to take. It's either this or lie down.
Also, I will say that tariffs can be a lot easier to manage if you only implement them against one of your trading partners. While major imports from that trading partner, and any goods produced with any of those imports, will see a price hike, most Western countries have very diversified economies and can make up the difference elsewhere. The real trouble begins when you start having blanket tariffs affecting all of your major trade partners, which seems to be Trump's plan.
It's still going to hurt - we import so much from the US that this is going to impact Canadians no matter what (even before price hikes in unrelated businesses starts).
It is going to hurt, and to my understanding it's already begun impacting businesses. The only salve I can offer is that us Americans are going to hurt a whole lot more. Hopefully, Liberal is able to maintain power up there, and is working on new trade deals with new partners. Nothing the U.S. produces is really unique, so alternatives can be found, but it's going to take time to set-up new agreements.
Trump's tariffs are universal. Meaning that even in cases where the only practical option is Canada, for example potash, they have to suffer a direct 25% price increase.
The Canadian tariffs are highly selective, we only tariff goods that have alternate non US suppliers at similar prices. In this case the tariffs would mostly reduce market competition without directly affecting price.
I think the better approach is to not enforced the digital lock aspects of the free trade agreement and have Canada be a leading repairer of farm and industrial equipment.
Aluminum is another one, apparently. The element is everywhere, but it takes massive amounts of electricity to get in metal form, which we just happen to have from all the dams in great lakes region.
Our Aluminum companies are literally planning to change nothing. They expect their American customers will just eat the cost.
I mean yeah, but Canada produces an ENORMOUS percentage of the world's potash.
Edit: checked the numbers. Canada produced ~38% of the worlds potash (25mil lbs), while Belarus produced 5-7mil lbs, most of which already goes to China, Russia, and India. Canada exports 46% of our potash to the US, meaning the US could buy ALL of belarus' potash and still not meet current supply.
If the tariffs are taylored correctly they can cause more pain in the US while minimizing cost to Canada. For example, us grain is not cheap and you can make it so that Canada buys from other countries at a similar cost. This will hurt farmers in the US (a key group for Trump) while not really hiring Canada.
My understanding is that when the americans institute their tariffs, all canadian products become more expensive for americans and not price competitive with local american products. This results in a decrease of purchasing from Canada.
If we do nothing, then Canadians are still buying just as much american as before and there are little to no consequences for the tariffs
With tariffs on both sides, the effect is roughly "equalized" in that we are both now buying more local goods and less trade over the border
Higher import taxes (tariffs) on Canadian goods for Americans will increase the price, presumably reducing the amount of these goods that Americans will buy which hurts the Canadian producers. The only thing Canada can really do is hurt American producers in the same way, hence increase tariffs to reduce Canadian consumption of American goods and hurt American producers just as much (or preferably more). Hurting each other is a loss-loss strategy though, which explains why trade wars typically do not have winners only losers…
Don't retaliate 1:1. Retaliate 5:1.
Burn the fucking bridge already.
Carry on Prime Minister Trudeau and create better trade deals with the EU, EEC and friendly Asian countries.
Yes. It's alright, I've managed to mostly eliminate American products. Anyone smart or at least patriotic has looked into it as well, since the madness began. It was kind of neat watching the US products just sit on the shelves while Canadian stuff emptied out.
To reiterate what all our politicians have been saying to US media, Trump is raising prices on Americans to hurt us, it's for no good reason, and we're forced to do the same on our side.
There is a reason, is just like this old Western movies. The wealth banq/ranch owner that rules the town, is diverting the local stream to dry up the pretty widow a farm. Saying you know you would be much better off marrying me. I would cherish you and add you worthless farm to my ranch. Only he knows the train line is about to be installed and would turn that little plot of land into very valuable real estate. Ducking the widow in the as every night is just bonus.
Genuine question, if Trump's tarrifs just make things expensive for Americans why would we put retaliatory tarrifs that effect us?
Do tarrifs really just make things more expensive for the home country? How do they effect the country the tarrifs are imposed on?
Trump's tariffs make Canadian stuff more expensive for Americans, so they'll tend to buy less Canadian stuff. Without retaliatory tariffs, Americans only buy American stuff, and Canadians continue to buy American stuff, so nobody is buying Canadian stuff. This hurts Canada because nobody is buying their stuff. With retaliatory tariffs, US stuff becomes more expensive in Canada, so it encourages Canadians to stop buying American and spend their money in Canada.
Do tarrifs really just make things more expensive for the home country? How do they effect the country the tarrifs are imposed on?
It makes it harder for that country to sell. Which means layoffs and loss of asset value there. The most dramatic example is the auto industry. They're talking about just closing shop immediately, because their business plan depends on moving things back and forth across the border as they gradually get assembled.
If this goes on as long as I suspect, there will be new businesses that bubble up to use the same resources, but it's never going to be as nice as a single integrated continent, and in the meanwhile, time is money, things can't grow and develop while just sitting there. Not to mention the workers that now don't know how to put food on the table.
Genuine question, if Trump’s tariffs just make things expensive for Americans why would we put retaliatory tariffs that effect us?
That's actually a separate question. It's a matter of tit-for-tat, partly. But, there's also the fact that the US government is pocketing all those tariffs. If we didn't have a bit of extra income to match, I imagine it'd get really hard for the government to pay for things with our now weaker currency. Not retaliating was considered, though.
Not an economic, but everything is entangled
Say you have two products: one from USA ($110) and the same from Canada ($100). Now we impose a tariff of 25 pct on the Canadian product ($125).
This means that consumers are going to buy the cheaper product, resulting in less income for the Canadian manufacturer.
The USA manufacturer can increase the price to $120, and still be cheaper than their Canadian counterpart. All while prices for customers are increasing
The USA manufacturer can increase the price to $120, and still be cheaper than their Canadian counterpart.
Unless there is no USA manufacturer, or there is but they don't make nearly enough of the product to satisfy demand. More importantly, if the manufacturers we (USA) have buy much of the needed raw materials to make their products from Canada or other places with tariffs imposed, then a USA-made product becomes that much more expensive.
It's stupid, and hard on everyone but the blame is entirely on trump. Canada (and hopefully Mexico) imposing retaliatory tariffs is basically the only way to get trump to back down. Like with MAD (mutually assured destruction), the assured part has to be there or it doesn't work. Even though it causes pain to everyone, retaliation is the most effective way to end this madness sooner--it will hurt the US economy, raise prices, and turn trump's supporters against him. The more it hurts, the sooner people will be out in the streets.
Imagine widgets are $10 in country A, but a company in country B can make and sell them for $8. Buyers are likely to buy the cheapest (all else being equal). A 100% tariff would turn $8 into $16. Company B still only gets $8, but they now look far more expensive to customers in country A.
They are designed to price out external competitors to local companies. This can be used to protect industries. Steel is a good example. China can make steel far cheaper than the rest of the world. However, steel plants take a long time to build and get producing. You generally don't want a potential rival to have control of the materials you need for war production.
Another legit use is to account for local regulations. If you require local companies to pay in a carbon credit system, an external company could undercut them from abroad. A tariff would help level the playing field.
None of these apply to what trump is doing. He's swinging a claymore mine around like a toy hammer. It causes huge damage to all involved.
Yes, but items are targeted to inflict the least amount of pain. We don't neeed orange juice or bourbon for example.
And inflict the maximum amount of pain on specifically the bad Americans who are doing this.
Only on American products. Canadian products theoretically will cost the same.
Maybe in Canada. In the US, I fully expect corporations to increase domestic prices by 15-20%, and still have the more attractive option for consumers. If and when the tariffs are dropped, it is unlikely that prices will go back down. Trump essentially just created a permanent new regressive tax, affecting the poorest of US citizens the worst.
Anyone want to place a bet for what he blames it on? I'm hoping he goes for the classic Obama excuse.
got to strategically tariff so it hurts US but with minimal impact on Canada.
Yup.
That's why the initial list of counter-tariffs were specifically chosen to hit the overlap of red states and things we make ourself, or can easily get elsewhere, or can comfortably do without for an extended period of time.
Capitalist companies may lose income from lost sales, but they will be raising prices to match the tariff. Probably throw an extra 5-10% on top of that for greed, because they can blame it all on the tariff.
Sort of. The economy is not as robust as consumers like to believe it is.
Say you're a manufacturer and you make Widgets, and an essential component for those is Greebels, you likely have a supply chain already set up to have those Greebels delivered to your factory. Well, if those Greebels are now subject to a 25% tariff, they become that much more expensive to import. In theory, this would cause you to look for alternative domestic suppliers of Greebels to avoid having to pay what is essentially a 25% tax just to get essential components for your otherwise domestic-made product, but there are a number of factors that might make that impossible. For example, you might be under exclusive contract for a number of years with the foreign supplier, or you might only use Greebels supplied from the foreign Gizmo Corporation in your Widgets because you based your design on using their proprietary components and you can't switch to a competitor without redesigning your product entirely or violating intellectual property laws.
Even if none of those unusual edge cases apply, you might still opt to order your Greebels from the Gizmo Corporation - perhaps they are still cheaper than a domestic alternative after calculating the price difference, especially considering the labor laws here are more strict than it in in places such as China or Bangaladesh where minimum wage laws are almost nonexistent. If that is the case, there may not be any real domestic alternative because they can't stay competitive in the global market by paying their workers a 1st world minimum wage. Finally, setting up your own factory for turning raw materials into Greebels to use in your Widgets is a prohibitively expensive venture that likely wouldn't cause you to turn a profit for many years and would still require you to source the raw materials which may not be available domestically.
The most likely/realistic outcome is having the Gizmo Corporation agree to send their product to be manufactured/assembled/stored in a factory/warehouse in another country that is not subject to the tariffs and then import it, which bypasses the tariff altogether without compromising the specific product you are used to ordering (so long as the rerouting doesn't end up costing more than the import tariff)
or
Your company will eat the cost of the import and raise the price of Widgets by 25% to compensate for the increased cost per unit.
There will probably be a tiny dip in the exporting company profits at a result of tariffs, but they're not going to have a significant enough drop in revenue to cause any kind of panic.
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I like Cory Doctorow’s plan.
The reason Canada got tariff-free access to sell to the US in the first place? Canada agreed to enforce penalties for tampering with digital locks, following the premise of the Digital Milennium Copyright Act.
If the US is going back on the deal, then Canada should too. Make it legal to jailbreak all US tech.
Doctorow advocating for this plan:
save