Burner phones are now mandatory when traveling to the US.
2 years ago by Maple Engineer to c/canada
People also travel to Pyongyang just to see just how shitty it is.
Honestly, just follow their rules and you'd probably be fine in NK. But maybe not so in the us
Travel to the US and it’s your own fault. We have been warned.
My partner is a scientist and has to travel to the US for work later this year. We're both dreading it, given all these stories of people being detained at the border.
Are they in private or public sector? Because I can't imagine a university or other government institution continuing to send people to America if hostilities keep increasing over the course of the year.
I'm not saying there won't be financial consequences, but they are well within their right to refuse. I would.
What the actual fuck is going on with my country?!? For fuck sake, not all of us are fascist bellends.
Things are still gonna get worse, we're not gonna get through this until their actions hurt so many people that enough of them get fed up and it leads to one of those belgrade or hungary sized protests
You’re talking about a country that largely lives with its head in the sand. America is notorious for avoiding the news, especially world news. The fact that any is ingested as all is likely thanks to social media. (Im talking large strokes, middle of the bell curve behaviors). As long as the family unit is ok, people generally think they’re ok, and live with blinders for anything outside of that. This life approach has existed long before Trump was even a blip in politics.
Remember, inertia is a seismic, global driving force of action for much of humanity.
I think it would likely take everyone’s personal house burning down in tandem to inspire mass action and those who still had houses would still function via the force of inertia propelling them through their daily habits, ignoring everyone else.
I say that as an American. I don’t like it, but it’s true. That and liberals a very un unified and tend not to like each other. A lot of gatekeeping takes place there rather than uniting and doing, always has. It’s a scattered, messy, un unified party.
In addition, there was another post made in response to a “do something” rant that I think sums up the other piece in play.
“I don’t know how to start a riot.”
Which is a fair point. How? Seriously. And where do you find people when your full personal circle is 2-7 individuals (if you have friends at all, it’s a major problem people seek therapy for these days). and half of the people who are friends with are either MAGA or a dissociated young man who spends all their free time behind a screen engaged in escapism.
We’re kinda screwed on the psychology side over here.
A third of you are fascist bellends, a third are fighting against the fascist bellends .... and a third are just standing there doing nothing.
Yeah, the non-voters are fucking worse than the Trumpers in some ways.
this is beyond voting now
oh I voted. And dragged* all my kids to vote. And my reluctant wife. I did everything I could...
You might want to say "dragged" instead....
Well…. (I see your point).
I did everything I could...
Did you? Are you?
How often are you holding your elected officials to account?
how often are you hitting the streets protesting?
How much local and community organizing are you doing?
How much "voting with you wallet" are you doing?
This. I personally have no plan going to usa now and in the future. Unfortunately some Canadians may still have to go for work related trips. Just be aware that you may or may not need to register in the new "Alien Registration Requirement".
Just be aware that you may or may not need to register in the new "Alien Registration Requirement".
And if you choose wrong, they might lock you up in a detention center concentration camp.
They're a scientist. Science is pretty international and often involves travelling to all sorts of countries for conferences with other researchers in your field.
His job sent him
Don't carry digital data across any border, even if encrypted. Many countries have totally different standards over search and seizure at their borders to when you have gained entry and sometimes far worse for non citizens.
Australia has full rights to search hardware on entry. Careful coming here too.
A good option is backing up your data, encrypting it, then uploading to a server you can retrieve it from once you've crossed
Setting up some stuff might look less sus than a freshly wiped device though
america has freedom of speech but i guess not in this case.
America HAD freedom of speech. Now they're disappearing people for it.
"Freedom of Speech" is a euphemism for hate speech and racism in the US.
Some of us that left still want to visit family when they're dying
I read that as snails and was about to comment "bonjour" ... instead I did the joke in this meta way
I have a question for you, do you actually need REAL ID to travel domestically?
Soon, you'll need it to fly domestically.
They actually set this up pretty far in advance though. For instance, I'm from Texas, where any IDs issued since October 2016 are complaint. It's impossible for me to have a current ID that's non-compliant.
So from my perspective there won't really have been any changes since 2001 in my flying experience.
Starting May 7, yes you’ll need a REAL or Passport to board US domestic flights.
Afaik, your state Id or driver license is your legal identification. And states honor the IDs of other states.
I refused to use id.me to get unemployment insurance because I don't want a private 3rd party having that info plus a face scan.
I worry about this: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id but from the website, it seems that many states id/driver licenses are "REAL ID compliant" and you only need it if you fly domestically or wanting to access "certain federal facilities".
Stay safe, friend.
You can also just use a passport instead.
I don't know, all I know is that my driver's license is already compliant with that, I think. All I had to do is bring a few extra things to the BMV when I renewed the license. I didn't really think much of it at the time but it's one of those things that's nice to have and didn't really cost too much extra.
And they can refuse you entry if you don’t comply.
Why would you get fired? Like they would have to justify it and I dont think "I was oppressed when visiting a fascist police state" is a legally permissible reason to fire someone in most countries
For those of us with GrapheneOS, you could maybe set up a different user profile solely for travel? Hopefully they wouldn't look closely enough to see that it's not the real one
No problem. The cellebrite imaging tool will provide power while it dumps your entire phone.
Full Disk Encryption works. Use a strong passphrase. >20 characters.
Doesnt work. They wont let you in if you dont unlock your phone. Same thing if you wipe it. They can refuse you for any reason.
If you really need to go to the US - Don't bring any electronic devices with you through security or while transitioning through borders.
Leave your devices at home. Bring a single function camera with you if you want.
Once you get across the border ... buy a new or used phone. If you have friends or family waiting for you, ask them to get you a phone, maybe even an old phone or get them to buy a used phone that you can use during your stay (pay them to get it of course).
Set up your new phone - load your data through cloud based systems ... if you are organized enough, you can set up a cloud based password manager to handle all your other data services.
Then when you leave, reformat and reset your phone and either try to sell off the phone you just bought, give it away or just toss it.
Go through security again without a device.
FWIW the US is claiming that the researcher had confidential information from Los Alamos National Labs against the terms of his NDA. They claim the researcher admitted to taking the information and attempting to conceal it.
I honestly hope this is the explanation. If we're starting to deny entry to the country simply due to criticisms of domestic policy decisions, we're going down yet another dark path.
Or when private citizens are freely given the details of U.S. plans to respond militarily to China?
I was at the conference he was supposed to attend - the Lunar and Planetary Science conference. There were a lot of people showing Los Alamos data there.
That doesn't mean anything, at all. Just because "a lot of people [were] showing Los Alamos data" doesn't mean all Los Alamos data can be publicized.
Ex: a guy named Robert who led a very particular research effort in New Mexico
That's not news. The US has for a long time reading/copying contents of electric devices at the border
They never asked to see my phone at the border. But the last time I crossed they were getting a hell of a lot more aggressive. They got less aggressive when I became a Canadian citizen, but when I only had my Lebanese passport they almost always brought me in for more questioning. It was kinda bizarre. They probably aggressively searched my luggage, but I can't be sure of that.
People have told me that I could pass for an Italian... hmm...
My checked luggage used to be searched when I went to usa. I knew it was searched because tsa would leave a pamphlet inside my luggage saying that it was searched. I believe they have stopped leaving such pamphlet but I won't be surprised if they still search luggages.
I used to get "randomly" searched every time I fly in the US until I was sent to the side room for more extensive search and interview.
After that I never got randomly searched anymore whenever I go through the airport.
I think once they know everything and judged that I'm not going to be a problem, I stopped getting flagged.
From the news, this time feels a bit different.
Unfortunately I'll avoid crossing the border until things settle down in a few years. I don't want to get whisked away by ICE for looking at someone funny
Airlines always check their stuff. Border crossings via greyhound bus or car are not always.
While technically true, they weren't kicking out foreign visitors for being critical if the president.
I used to train people in a specific culinary technique, and i had clients from all over the world, including Muslim clients from the Middle East and India. Most had no problem visiting, but one was stopped at the border and heavily grilled.
His visa said he was here for vacation and educational purposes, but when they went through his texts, they determined that he was here for business purposes, and threatened to confiscate his cash, and reject him from entering the country.
After a few hours, he eventually convinced them that he had considered his training with me to be educational rather than business for his visa, and it just an honest mistake, with no nefarious purpose, and was finally released so he could visit me, and get his training.
This was about 10 years ago, and I don't remember who was president. It was either Trump or Obama.
2015 was Obama afaik. Trump came in 2016.
I know, I have a calendar, I just wasn't exactly sure if the timing, it might have been 10 years ago or 11, or 9, or 8, I don't remember exactly.
Bingo. If anything, use of a burner phone will be purposely misconstrued as "suspicious", and used as justification for more thorough screening.
"You just got it last week? That's weird, we usually only hear drug smugglers using new phones. You're not smuggling fentanyl, are you? OK, so you won't mind if I take a look through your luggage to be sure, right? Maybe I should send you to secondary screening for an x-ray."
Lol free speech amirite
Just like going to china.
Ngl China didn’t touch my phone upon entry. Think my iris got scanned though and certainly got full palm printed.
One of the two people I know who have been to china had their phone taken for hours when they arrived. The other person reported much the same experience as you. The friend who had her phone taken was a US citizen but born of Chinese immigrants. The other who didn't get their phone taken was not. I can't help but think that her parents status there had something to do with.
If you bring a burner phone and they search it and see nothing on it, they'll think that suspicious too and might deny entry.
I've heard past suggestions of things like Goatse
source
No explicit source, but it's common sense and within their abilities, keep in mind recently changed rules around searching in general have changed recently...
Border agent: I'm going to search your phone give me the password.
(eventually you agree because it's a burner)
You: Here you go
Border agent: There's nothing on this phone, no email, no pictures, nothing? What are you trying to hide?
You: Well it's a new phone I just got
Border agent: And you haven't logged into anything yet?
You: Ya.
Border agent: looks like you're trying to hide something, this isn't normal behaviour
You: start looking nervous as the border agent's tone changes
Border agent: You're looking a little nervous now, are you hiding something?
You: no, just trying to travel
Border agent: Goes away and talks to someone, then comes back and says, sorry were going to deny you.
They can deny anyone for any reason. It would ultimately come down to how you handle the situation, but DO expect to be grilled about it if you haven't set it up to look real.
I thought that was basic opsec. Burner phone with a week of use, paid in cash on you. Real phone (if you need it) in a bag, battery removed and separate by any means. That's not just crossing borders, that's anything longer than a city bus.
21 years
There's a bunch, I was looking last night. Samsung xcover, fairphone.
All of the Blu phones from TracFone. Which is what I use.
The more important thing to remove is the internal storage. And the answer is: use a laptop
Dude, I practice opsec crossing county lines sometimes, what's your excuse? This is how it's always been, you all are just realizing how a dude from Queens and Jersey sees the world. That's all that dumbass is. He's no better than his roots.
Breaking: Trump justice dept to define eating brie as Domestic Terrorism.
Thats why you should use a Google Pixel with GraphineOS and a unique 20+ digit password (along with a secure VPN like Mullvad)
I got a secret for you. Grapheneos has a duress password feature, if you type it in, it completely wipes the phone. Give them that password and act surprised when the phone shits itself
No avg person is doing this. Get a second phone with alias accounts.
I use GraphineOS and tbh its not inconvenient to use
Convincing someone to completely change their operating system isn't easy from the start.
If you're genuenly worried about your security it makes sense, the average person however doesn't care so they wont do anything to increase security
That is a good option. I am actually quite careful about what I use my phone for. I still on occasion use Google maps, but i turn location history off and I always delete previous searches.
I am aware that this does not remove them from google's database, but it does make your movements not immediately obvious.
Also i would delete browser history and log out of all social media accounts (and disable remembering usernames/passwords) and even uninstall some apps in order to make who you interact eith less immediately obvious. Once you clear the border fully you can reinstall everything at your earliest convenience.
You may want to try Organic Maps. It can probably help in 80% of situations where you use Google Maps.
I also have osmand. At any rate I wish I could uninstall Google entirely off my computer. My dad was the one who made my gmail account back in 2005 (when it was invited only, if you can believe/remember that), and I have been using it for all my governmental and important stuff since. I have plenty of other emails, but most of them are for inconsequential stuff.
I have been using Organic Maps and I have no complain.
Lol ok. Cause nothing like installing and learning a new OS right before traveling.
Would Private Internet Access work? That is my VPN.
They have mossad ties. Their CEO or something is a former spy. It's owned by Israel.
NOW YOU TELL ME! I have a three year plan with them!
If they know your name and address its not secure
Easy fix for me I just won't go.
Yup. That's a possibility. I work in security and would tell them it's just how we do things. If they send me home I will spend the week with my family instead of sitting in stupid training all week.
Just turn it off before going through Customs.
That's not some sort of magic spell to protect your data. If border agents are asking to see the contents of your phone, they won't be amused with, "it's turned off." The only thing turning your phone off achieves it leaving it encrypted which (among other things) means bio-metrics won't work. Border agents can physically compel a bio-metric unlock. While they can't force you to type your password, if you don't comply you'll almost certainly be banned from the country.
The only time I’ve been forced to turn on my phone/laptop was a layover in the UK.
And I've never been forced to show the contents of my devices on dozens and dozens of trips to the States. It doesn't mean they won't ask next time.
EDIT changed boarder to border.
I wonder if making sure your phone is dead would work? Like assuming they’re choosing you randomly to search, they might not want to go through the effort of getting you to charge your phone to search your phone. I’ve never dealt with this situation at all though so I don’t really know.
Brilliant. Sometimes the obvious items we set and forget needs a reminder.
In addition, just generally, stop using biometrics and only use encrypted messaging.
If you’re not using Signal or WIRE for personal texts and FaceTime, you’re doing it wrong. It’s a new era.
There's an app for that. Its called ripple.
Use F-Droid — the Ripple app that Jagged is referring to has a blue droplet icon.
Add "guardian project" to your qureries
💛 Thank you friend!!! For everyone else, https://f-droid.org/...
You seem to have missed the point.
I think the point was not having a phone with you when you go through security and not about privacy when you are on the other side
It’s not the traceability of the phone. It’s the contents of the phone.
The contents of our phones is deeply personal and some courts have ruled that makes them part of the fourth amendment protections, but it’s not made it to the Supreme Court (afaik, ianal) and border patrol doesn’t care as this case makes evident.
The benefit of a burner phone is that you don’t knock out your primary phone in order to remove “incriminating” evidence like that time your friend texted you that Donald Trump is an orange bellend.
It's not that the border patrol doesn't care, they have an exception
Its possible to own a phone and never use a SIM. This is the recommend option. Never connect to a cell tower. Just use WiFi.
I had to go for work. I have a Nexus card and traveled very low key so I didn't have any issues. I've told my company that I'm not interested in traveling to the US unless absolutely necessary. I have the advantage of being a white man in my late 50s.
It's fine, same as it always was crossing the border, just don't fuck around lying to border guards or announce you're taking bookings for tattoos this week in Seattle on Instagram. Basically the news has decided to publicize this shit like it wasn't happening 2 months ago either, same as how they focus on "kids in cages" only when a republican is president or plane crashes that 2 weeks there.
It's not that uncommon for border patrol to go through your phone. I went to Canada 6-7 years ago and they went through my sister's phone because she told them she wanted to meet a Canadian friend she had made online. Border patrol read their conversations while we waited in a confinement room. It was the last time I went to Canada
So they were trying to keep your sister from being human trafficked and you had a tantrum and refused to come back? Probably not a big loss for Canada.
Good luck finding anywhere else in the world where you aren't subject to the search of your electronics. Canada appreciates your decision not to visit again.
Cool. There really isn't anything there worth seeing except people with beady eyes and flapping heads. Btw your maple syrup is tasteless, overpriced, and something only a douche bag would enjoy.
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Why travel to that shithole.
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