New York teachers stunned to learn some students can’t read time on old clocks after phone ban comes into play

9 months ago by resipsaloquitur to c/nottheonion

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/41056130

At least 31 states and the District of Columbia restrict cell phones in schools

New York City teachers say the state’s recently implemented cell phone ban in schools has showed that numerous students no longer know how to tell time on an old-fashioned clock.

“That's a major skill that they're not used to at all,” Tiana Millen, an assistant principal at Cardozo High School in Queens, told Gothamist of what she’s noticed after the ban, which went into effect in September.

Students in the city’s school system are meant to learn basic time-telling skills in the first and second grade, according to officials, though it appears children have fallen out of practice doing so in an increasingly digital world.

retype 74 points 9 months ago

Pains me that the article calls them "old" clocks and not "analog" clocks.

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resipsaloquitur 52 points 9 months ago

I heard a story about a kid telling an adult that they couldn’t read “circle time.” That any better?

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retype 24 points 9 months ago

Only slightly! 😂

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thenextguy 29 points 9 months ago

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Billygoat 10 points 9 months ago

🎵Then put your little hand in mine!🎵

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thenextguy 3 points 9 months ago

Wow, arguably my favorite movie, but it took me way too long…

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limelight79 2 points 9 months ago

🎵Then put your little hand in mine!🎵

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Someonelol 7 points 9 months ago

Behold, your analog clock.

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p03locke -26 points 9 months ago

Because they are fucking old. Old clocks. Useless clocks. Not a skill worth teaching, except as an anachronism when explaining why Big Ben and similar building clocks work the way they do.

it appears children have fallen out of practice doing so in an increasingly digital world.

Increasingly? Brother, we're already there. It's all digital. Have you seen the internet yet?

Schools haven't adapted solely out of spite, to propagate this self-fulfilling cycle of teaching how they work, so that their own students can read school clocks. As soon as they leave the school zone, that knowledge is practically useless to them.

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vithigar 20 points 9 months ago

Not sure what kind of sequestered live you lead but schools are definitely not the only place you encounter them. Analog wall clocks and watch faces are still reasonably common.

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p03locke -5 points 9 months ago

Nope, not really. You occasionally find them in some old government building, but only because it's always existed that way, and they just don't want to bother replacing it with a modern digital clock.

This line of thinking is the same as saying cursive writing is worth teaching.

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basxto 1 point 9 months ago

Cursive is a font optimized for hand writing.

I don’t use analog clocks, but they are arguably easier to read with worse vision.

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limelight79 1 point 9 months ago

Lol we bought one from IKEA recently.

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brb -5 points 9 months ago

They are very rare in public spaces over here. Pretty much only elderly have them in their homes

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TrickDacy 13 points 9 months ago

I didn't know 12 year olds were on lemmy

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Twig -2 points 9 months ago
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givesomefucks 42 points 9 months ago

Maybe someone should teach them...

One of the greatest dangers to a society is people assuming anything is innate or the next generation will magically know shit.

Nobody taught these kids how to read a clock. So they don't know how to read a clock.

This is a very minor thing, but it's an easier concept to grasp than the abstract concept of empathy we also stopped teaching kids.

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Psythik 16 points 9 months ago

I'm a millennial and I was taught how to read a clock in 2nd grade. Are they not teaching this basic skill anymore?

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XeroxCool 6 points 9 months ago

You didn't even have to read the article, just the excerpt from OP. "students are taught to read analog clocks in first and second grade in city public schools" l

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 1 point 9 months ago

you ought to change your pedantry to instructed because some of them did not learn

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RickyRigatoni 4 points 9 months ago

What decade were you in second grade?

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Psythik 6 points 9 months ago

The mid 90s, LONG after digital clocks were already ubiquitous.

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Wren 2 points 9 months ago

I'm a millenial, too. Even I use my phone or computer to tell time more often than anything. Before smart phones we had some solid years relying on wall clocks and watches. It was a skill we kept using after we learned it, unlike a lot of kids who haven't needed to flex that muscle since they were taught.

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Psythik 2 points 9 months ago

Yeah but smartwatches exist and digital watch faces look awkward on the ones with a round dial. Plus I have an analog clock on the wall for when the watch is charging and I don't feel like pulling out my phone... So it's still a useful skill to have.

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Wren 1 point 9 months ago

Not saying it isn't useful, but that it's understandable someone might not have that skill.

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XeroxCool 9 points 9 months ago

You didn't even have to read the article, just the excerpt from OP. "students are taught to read analog clocks in first and second grade in city public schools".

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quick_snail -2 points 9 months ago

Obviously they are not. You can say it's on the ciriculim, but they were obviously not taught

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Wolf314159 5 points 9 months ago

Obviously, it was a skill learned in early grade school and subsequently forgotten through lack of practice. You know, as stated in the article and multiple comments here.

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XTL -2 points 9 months ago

While I agree with that, it's not exactly rocket surgery. If you once heard how it works, how hard can it be to figure out it again?

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FuglyDuck -13 points 9 months ago

or maybe they should invest in digital clocks rather than continuing to use an archaic, obsolete technology.

Yes. You read that right.

Analog clocks are obsolete.

Same with the fountain pen and dip pens and calligraphy (and the cursive writing styles that relied on them,) carrier pigeons and the telegraph. not to mention all sorts of other technologies that are of only passing interest.

You probably don't know how to read a sundial, or to locate yourself on a map using a magnetic compass.

While there's some esoteric value in such skills, the skills themselves are obsolete and useless to modern life. We're not preparing them for the past. we're preparing them for the future.

Guaranteed the teachers aren't using the analog clocks if they don't have to either.

(edit, I can't find the full article, everything points back to that atlantic article. The gyst that they cropped out so crudely is two fold: the point of cursive was to minimize blotting caused by lifting and setting the pen across each letter when using a pen with a nib. It required a relatively light hand when writing, so as to glide over the page and not dig itn. Ball point pens, on the other hand, transfer ink differently- you're rolling a ball over the surface- and they require significantly more pressure. the fluid motions of cursive writing cramp the hand sooner compared to print, if you're writing with a ball point.)

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mycodesucks 18 points 9 months ago

This is incorrect. I'm a teacher and CONSTANTLY use the analog clock for multiple reasons.

  1. It's the clock of record. Doesn't matter what YOUR particular clock says, the clock on the WALL is the time we all go on.
  2. Reaching into your pocket to pull out a phone and look, no matter how much you want to pretend it's trivial, still takes SIGNIFICANTLY more effort and time than glancing at the wall. Those seconds add up.
  3. Momentum. Are you PERSONALLY going to provide the billions of dollars in funding to replace every analog clock in a public space with digital ones?

This is not like learning to write cursive - reading an analog clock is a trivial skill that should not take longer than a day for anyone to master.

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quick_snail 2 points 9 months ago

My eyes are on my phone constantly, so no time is lost.

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Aatube -2 points 9 months ago

We could start by replacing broken ones with digital clocks using the money that would've gone towards fixing such machinery.

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remotelove -6 points 9 months ago

Please don't teach kids to insert all-caps words into their sentences. If you need to emphasize a word on the Internet, you can italicize.

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FuglyDuck -14 points 9 months ago

This is incorrect. I’m a teacher and CONSTANTLY use the analog clock for multiple reasons.

It’s the clock of record. Doesn’t matter what YOUR particular clock says, the clock on the WALL is the time we all go on.

Irrelevant. This function would be served regardless of what type of clock is on the wall. A digital wall clock would serve just as well, and likely be less expensive to maintain than the electromechanical clocks you presumably use. (something about obsolete technologies becoming increasingly more expensive to maintain.)

Reaching into your pocket to pull out a phone and look, no matter how much you want to pretend it’s trivial, still takes SIGNIFICANTLY more effort and time than glancing at the wall. Those seconds add up.

See the above reply.

Momentum. Are you PERSONALLY going to provide the billions of dollars in funding to replace every analog clock in a public space with digital ones?

an irrelevant red herring with a false dichotomy. Clocks in public places are mostly installed by the people who maintain those public places. We all pay taxes to keep those places up. I don't need to personally fund such a project and you know it.

This is not like learning to write cursive - reading an analog clock is a trivial skill that should not take longer than a day for anyone to master.

It may be trivial, and there may be some benefit besides learning to read said clock. But like cursive, it's an irrelevant skill that generally won't be used outside of class. That's how it's like cursive. Or, if you prefer, using a slide rule. as a teacher, I am, however, sure you understand that you only have so many hours of instruction available. A day spent on this, is a day not spent on something else. You might have arguments for why this is more important than that something else, but its still an obsolete technology that, like the slide rule and fountain pens, is going away. Nostalgia is not a good enough reason to keep it around.

btw, my middle school had all digital wall clocks back in the mid 90's, and probably had them for quite some time before i was there.

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blaue_Fledermaus 5 points 9 months ago

non-cursive is infuriatingly slow to write.

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malle_yeno 6 points 9 months ago

I have no idea people hate on cursive (beyond the normal anti-intellectual reasons of hating the idea of teaching people things that aren't immediately applicable to industry).

Cursive didn't come out of nowhere, it fills a legitimate need, and it's a skill that expresses your individual creative self in an activity you might do everyday (maybe more!) It does wonders for your self-confidence and happiness in life to write on paper well. Paper and pen has been humanity's companion for centuries if not millennia, and one doesn't do themselves any favors by intentionally shunning their own handwriting ability. And you dont have to pick between using a keyboard and learning cursive: just do both.

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can 1 point 9 months ago

Analogue clocks are *easier to read at a glance and maybe at a distance too.

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Snowcano 1 point 9 months ago
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TrickDacy -3 points 9 months ago
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FuglyDuck -3 points 9 months ago

Says the guy who apparently can only sting together an insult.

Stuff changes. Each generation does things differently. Stone Age people probably said the same thing when they stopped teaching their children to flintknap after everyone started using bronze tools.

We abandon old technology when it becomes obsolete, and eventually the skills associated with them. And that’s normal.

We don’t have enough hours in a lifetime to learn all the stuff we’ve abandoned, and analog clock faces are going that way. It’s okay. This is normal.

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TrickDacy 3 points 9 months ago
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lurch 22 points 9 months ago

Maybe it wasn't such a major skill after all 😄

Also, I'm old and remember waking up after partying hard and looking at an analog clock, not knowing whether it's AM or PM. Those clocks suck. 24h or nothing. Also radio-controlled clocks are a blessing ngl.

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blockheadjt 18 points 9 months ago

Looking at the sky will often help with distinguishing AM vs PM

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XeroxCool 12 points 9 months ago

5 in my winter is about the same.

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blockheadjt 1 point 9 months ago

Yeah, if the sky isn't totally overcast, then you see where the sun is

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LyD 6 points 9 months ago

below the horizon in both cases

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quick_snail 3 points 9 months ago

That requires me to get out of bed tho

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Tanoh 11 points 9 months ago

Having a proper time format helps more

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shalafi 1 point 9 months ago

The direction and quality of light makes it clear as well. OTOH, I've found people who can't tell which side of their house the sun rises and sets on.

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XTL 0 points 9 months ago

Kind of funny reading this at a time when it's pitch black outside except for an hour or two around noon.

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finalarbiter 7 points 9 months ago

I know by radio-controlled clock you probably meant the ones that automatically set the time, but I'm now imagining a kid with an RC car controller making the clock spin really fast

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mycodesucks 5 points 9 months ago

Why stop there? Why not the date and year too?

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Oppopity 16 points 9 months ago

Yeah they probably can't read cursive either.

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RickyRigatoni 3 points 9 months ago

I hope so. Cursive is worthless and needs to die.

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shalafi 2 points 9 months ago

My 12-yo was never taught cursive, and it turns out her general reading of print is lagging, but she read handwritten cursive last night well enough.

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cyberpunk007 2 points 9 months ago

I'm starting to struggle with this lately too

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 1 point 9 months ago

well i know hell and damn and the b-word

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 15 points 9 months ago

which new york teacher was stunned because i have questions

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Modern_medicine_isnt 8 points 9 months ago

Right, find me one. Teachers everywhere said kids can't read analog clocks long before cellphone bans.

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the_crotch 14 points 9 months ago

I learned to read an analog clock in elementary school. If schools aren't teaching it anymore idk why they're shocked that kids don't know how.

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OneWomanCreamTeam 12 points 9 months ago

Bet they can't dial a rotary phone or hitch a horse to a wagon either.

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skuzz 6 points 9 months ago
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kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E 2 points 9 months ago

This is dishonest, because unlike horses and kerosene lamps, analog clocks are in every (european) town, on the churches, matkets, train stations etc..

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skuzz 1 point 9 months ago
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Tigeroovy 11 points 9 months ago

They seem bad at computers a lot of the time too. I know right wingers like to make public schools lives hell by slashing budgets constantly but like damn.

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ChristchurchAsshole 3 points 9 months ago

Nobody is "good with computers" until they can install their own operating system and manage files and backups.

My 2 cents.

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sin_free_for_00_days 9 points 9 months ago

I remember when I was in 5th grade, back in the early '80s, a kid didn't know how to tell time on a clock. The adults then blamed the popularity of digital wristwatches. On one hand it doesn't really matter, on the other it's a great introduction to visualizing alternate numbering systems.

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xx3rawr 5 points 9 months ago

I was in 5th grade back in 00's and if you don"t knoe how to tell time on a clock, you get made fun of. It offers a different, a more intuitive, perception of progressing time. It's more like a progress bar than just counting numbers

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shalafi 3 points 9 months ago

We are the same age and I had my first analog wristwatch in 1st grade. When my niece was 4 in '86 or so I taught her to read a clock. Weird world, guess it's not all about age.

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XeroxCool 1 point 9 months ago

Same shit, different Gen. The sundialists hated mechanical clocks, too.

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quick_snail 9 points 9 months ago

"Old clocks"

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Territorial 7 points 9 months ago

This is not surprising at all. Even when taking about time relative to the analog clock, it gets difficult, a lady asked me for the time at Walmart, and she could not understand "half past six". When I clarified that's 6:30, she finally got it.

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DarrinBrunner 2 points 9 months ago

"Ten to eleven" would get a blank stare, too, probably.

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DarrinBrunner 6 points 9 months ago

I taught my gen-z kid to read an analog clock because I knew no one else would. I know he learned it.

He's 27 now, and living back at home. Recently, we were in the kitchen and the cat was asking to be fed. He said, "I don't think it's time yet..." and then went to his room to check the time on his phone. The same analog clock he learned to read is on the wall in the kitchen, where it's been his entire life. Apparently, he didn't practice at all after I taught him and tested him on it, and now can't read it? I dunno, I didn't ask, I didn't want to make a whole thing out of it.

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resipsaloquitur 3 points 9 months ago

Like a foreign language, use it or lose it.

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basxto 1 point 9 months ago

Well, I can convert it, but it takes time. I’ve been told that people who think in analog time rather view it as a kind of progress bar and only convert it to the exact minute number when they are asked for the time by somebody else.

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doingthestuff 6 points 9 months ago

You're a teacher? Teach!

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taiyang 4 points 9 months ago

How is that even possible? The only clocks on display in my house are analog. Do people not have wall clocks? Do kids grow up never knowing what time it is? That's a standard household furnishing.

Then again, it does say some students, so I probably should assume it's a minority who never asked their parents what the fuck that thing on the wall was.

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cyberpunk007 6 points 9 months ago

Microwave, stove, tv, computers... Digital by default or digital only. Who hangs a wall clock anymore?

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xx3rawr 1 point 9 months ago

Most people in my country, but I guess not USA, huh? I thought analog watches are almost always more fashionable than digital, too, so I'm really surprised it seems to be not used enough that a couple of dudes here dedicated paragraphs to oppose its use.

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ArcaneSlime 2 points 9 months ago

Idk, I have an analog hanging up. Some guy on lemmy who can't even read analogs at a glance isn't the sole arbiter of timekeeping for everyone's house in the country.

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cyberpunk007 1 point 9 months ago

I'm not in the USA. I do have an analog clock and watch though but they just sit in the closet.

Here's the problem, I don't have a lot of wall space and I already have clocks everywhere else. If the purpose is to know the time, then the purpose has been delivered like 5 times over. I don't need to waste wall space on an analog clock.

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quick_snail 1 point 9 months ago

Who wears watches for fashion?

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paraplu 1 point 9 months ago

I imagine a lot of folks. Everyone has a pocket watch nowadays. Building a habit to check your wrist instead of your pocket isn't necessarily easy if it's new.

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XeroxCool 3 points 9 months ago

the only clocks I have on display in my house are analog

That's a choice. You don't have to have any analog clocks. I don't currently have any. I dislike decorational clocks and strictly have digital clocks as informational devices where I want the time at a glance. Not to mention, I have 4 appliances in the kitchen with digital clocks (oven, microwave, drip coffee, keurig). Meanwhile, I absolutely hate audible ticking, so the only analogs I've bought are watches.

Also, as a former child, I can tell you children do not know what time it is. I also had digital clocks available the whole time, ranging from my dad's "James Bond" Casio, to the VCR flashing 12:00 all the time. Mostly, the pale teal VFD type.

It doesn't make sense to think of reading an analog clock as a necessary skill. It's like driving a manual car. Can you? I do it daily. I can count on one hand the number of times being able to drive stick saved me in an emergency situation by being the only transmission available (it's a closed fist). All the same, I have never been in an emergency situation that was dependent on my ability to read an analog clock

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NotMyOldRedditName 7 points 9 months ago

Tick Tock. Tick Tock.

That shit gets it's battery removed or taken off the wall and shoved in the bathroom whenever I end up at a hotel/motel with one.

Drives me insane.

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toynbee 4 points 9 months ago

I don't mind ticking (up to a certain point), but my Dad used to have in his garage an analog clock that not only ticked but also had extremely audible whirring sounds. They were associated (I assume) with the gearing. Again, it never really bothered me - I didn't spend much time in the garage and I'm pretty sure that clock had been around longer than I had (which is probably why it was so noisy). I was accustomed to it.

However, I remember the day my dad got hearing aids. One of the first things he observed was how noisy the clock was, asking if it had always been that way.

My dad spent a lot of time in his garage. Pretty sure that clock didn't last out the week.

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XeroxCool 2 points 9 months ago

Hearing aids are such a QoL improvement once people admit they need them. There's so much noise in the world that gets lost with age/damage. My dad got less irritable because he could actually understand normal talking levels. He definitely noticed some "new" noises in his house like yours did.

But now I have a new issue. I can hear him breathing and chewing through his own hearing aids since they're cranked to 11. Whatever, I'll take it.

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shalafi 0 points 9 months ago

That's a choice to be stupid. When I was a child I was frustrated as hell I couldn't read the signs Bugs Bunny held up, so I was chomping at the bit to learn. And these kids see "circle clocks" and just figure, "Meh. Guess it will always be a mystery."

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XeroxCool 2 points 9 months ago

.-.. --- .-.. --- -.-

Youre choosing to be esoteric.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 4 points 9 months ago

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texture 2 points 9 months ago

i went back to school last year and only a couple of my classmates under 30 could read clocks. kind of amazing.

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bilouba 0 points 9 months ago

How is that surprising ? Why would kid learn a useless skill ? Yes it's useless if you always have a digital clock on you and only read time that way. Should they learn to read cuneiform too? Now that the phone ban is in place, they will learn to read analog clock since it's useful again.

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FEIN 5 points 9 months ago

Cuneiform is an ancient writing system that died 1900 years ago. An analog clock (many of which are still around today) has hands that point to the numbers on the circumference. I don't think the two can be compared.

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the_crotch 1 point 9 months ago
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Proprietary_Blend -3 points 9 months ago

You voted for this, New York! reeeEEE

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