Denmark ‘will shoot first and ask questions later’ over Greenland
7 months ago by return2ozma to c/world
You're descendants of Vikings. Go Viking.
Take their treasure while you're at it.
Yesterday, I heard Magnus Carlson get called an insufferable viking. ‘Twas humorous.
I doubt the chess champion cares if he gets called a slur, but I know nothing, definitely nothing relevant. Godspeed
Be incredibly angry at Americans
Invade Quebec
Become very cold
Leave after about 80 years
Anyone who is talking about this should first realize that a NATO member is trying to get territory from another member just because they think it's better for their geopolitical situation, this will break NATO as an alliance because then Greece and Turkey will take it as a greenlight to take action against the disputed territories between themselves. Which will cause the collapse of NATO and who knows what Non-NATO countries will try to do. This is not about MAGA bullshit it will cause a huge change and might even cause the WW3 to start instead of the proxy wars we've been seeing. I'm saying this a person who doesn't like NATO.
It will not break NATO. Since it is a defensive pact.
If the US attacks Greenland, every NATO member will jump to the defense of Greenland because they are the country being invaded. That is how the pact is written. Doesn't matter if the invading country is NATO themselves or not.
The only thing this will cause in NATO is that the US will be kicked out.
This is wishful thinking. This will brake NATO or they will just shrug and move on. Europe is still to reliant on the US as a protective force. Maybe this will help them see that the time in which the US cared for anybody but them self belong to the past. Right now to many EU countries are clinging to world order that died with Trump 2.
Has NATO really prevented anything between Türkiye and Greece?
I thought there were explicit exceptions for the defense agreement in case the conflict is between member states, precisely because of Türkiye and Greece.
Edit: from what I can find, there is no explicit exceptions but it is generally understood that article 5 is only to be invoked for external aggression. No action was undertaken by NATO when Cyprus was invaded.
These morons would take us back to living in caves and knocking women over the head with clubs to claim their spouse if they had their druthers.
This juvenile "might makes right" perspective is so goddam infantile it's almost laughable, if these weren't the idiots with the guns.
A Dane invading and pillaging... I've heard this one before.
Do it. Embrace your Viking ancestry.
you are morally justified in using the method of your aggressor enemy against them, yes
Which makes me wonder if I as a Dane am morally justified in gathering a few friends, breaking into these influencers homes, kicking them out, and just take up residence.
The thing about Might Makes Right is that hypotheticals aren't a signal of strength.
What would happen if you tried? You'd probably get in an altercation. People would be injured. The local police would be called to break it up. And nobody would care that you were trying to prove a rhetorical point.
I suppose there is no moral obligation for me to obey American laws, if there is no moral obligation for America to obey international laws.
To borrow a quip from Brandon Lee Mulligan
Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army. You know what I mean?
But in a hypothetical "might makes right", cops aren't ever safe either and don't act with impunity of the courts and the consent of the governed. Police stop being police, and are just people with a slightly above average level of force in a mad max world.
If they thought the job sucked before with high rates of PTSD and suicide, just wait.
But in a hypothetical “might makes right”, cops aren’t ever safe either and don’t act with impunity of the courts and the consent of the governed.
Cops operate as armed gangs with staked out turf. They're safe, broadly speaking, because they have a collectivist attitude towards their own defense. If you fuck with one cop, you are inevitably fucking with the entire department. And police departments - particularly in big cities - have enormous amounts of money, capital, and manpower to deploy against individuals and small groups in opposition.
If they thought the job sucked before with high rates of PTSD and suicide, just wait.
Not remotely high enough.
And the job doesn't suck. It is highly coveted, both for the amazing pay/benefits - some of the best in the public sector and regularly well above the local median - and for the slew of "fringe" benefits that come from gang membership - prosecutorial immunity when engaged in drug/human trafficking, assault/battery/spousal abuse, vehicle crimes, intoxication, etc.
https://www.zippia.com/salaries/police-officer/
Entry level $38k average $52. Not exactly amazing pay. The coveted nature of the job is little dicks want power to abuse.
Edit: from https://www.cna.org/...
Public safety personnel die by suicide at a higher rate than the general population. For example, Violanti et al. (2013) found that detectives and criminal investigators had a higher suicide rate than the general population, and Dixon (2021) found that rates of suicide among public safety personnel are higher than rates of death in the line of duty. Various job-related factors contribute to these tragedies in law enforcement officers, including repeated exposure to life-threatening situations, the strain of shift work on sleep patterns and relationships, ready access to firearms, prior military experience, and the demographic profile of law enforcement, which predominantly comprises White males, a group already at elevated risk of suicide (Dixon, 2021; Stanley et al., 2016; Violanti et al., 2013). In contrast, factors contributing to the suicide of correctional officers remain less clear, largely because of high turnover rates (Malik et al., 2023).
The job does suck.
I see a lot of right wing influencers arguing a kind of might makes right rhetoric.
Always the case with fucking fascists.
While that is the case, I wonder how many in America actually approves of this given the proliferation of right wing bot accounts. I think that even if the US decides to invade Greenland, that might trigger a US civil war because, unlike Venezuela and Iraq where there are dictators which give plausible excuse to invade, Denmark and Greenland is clearly a democratic and peaceful country. A lot of Americans know this. Invading Venezuela did not even create a rally around the flag effect in favour of Trump admin as some might have expected, in order for Trump to artificially shore up his approval ratings. I certainly thought that more Americans might have gotten on board with Trump admin immediately, considering how they jumped the bandwagon to support the invasion of Iraq.
Valid.
I said it right after Venezuela, it was a one time thing.
No country would fire first on America, because what's the worst that could happen if they didn't?
Now that 'they abduct you and your family and take you to America' is an option, countries are going to shoot first and risk war.
We're going to see UN stuff move over to Europe as well, leaders aren't going to want to risk setting foot here.
We shot and thought it was self explanatory.
Greenland is an important indicator for world climate health, don't support any dangerous idea there pls. Try Choosing alternate methods.
That sounds like something you should take up with the Danish Ministry of Defense.
don't support any dangerous idea there pls
Dangerous idea like rolling over for fascists? Surely just one more illegal invasion and they'll stop.
Good. Someone needs to stand up to Trump.
Good for them! If you have an armed military coming in to steal your land, you have no other choice but to fight to the death.
Trump wanted to start as many wars as possible as quickly as possible, and his regime is making sure it happens FAST.
Thanks, I haven't seen this repeated in the last 15 minutes, and it's important to keep this front and center.
Also, not just Trump. All Conservatives are MAGA, and all MAGAS are PedoCons.
Those files for certain implicate much of the GQP establishment and Trump otherwise they'd have no trouble releasing it for the few liberals that are on there compared to them.
Even if they released everything they had, they would still quarantine anything that implicates Trump. We might still get something actionable, but it's doubtful. Chain of custody is so compromised at this point, that nobody with a decent lawyer will get convicted in a real court. Court of public opinion will have to do.
OTOH, I've been seeing occasional articles on the OTHER Epstein investigation, the one following the many money trails. He had a LOT of money, and they still aren't sure where it came from, or where it is, but they are looking for it. Its hard to dispute hard numbers, so they tend to be powerful evidence.
If people go to prison over their Epstein crimes, it will be about the money, not salacious photographs or emails.
Also because it's far easier to justify suspending democratic processes by pointing at an ongoing military crisis and making emergency laws.
We've never cancelled an election, not even during the first Civil War, so we will NEVER accept any excuses for cancelling elections, not military actions, not civil unrest, not nothin'.
So please don't even hint that there is a scenario that would be acceptable to suspend elections. That is a BRIGHT RED LINE that can NEVER be crossed. That violates our Constitutional/ Social Contract to a fatal degree, signalling the end of American Democracy, and the start of Civil War.
Good. Let's hope that conviction is never put to the test, but I wouldn't put it past him to try.
Just to point out what I'm talking about: https://lemmy.world/post/41255505
Let's hope he doesn't actually pull that off
Trump wanted to start as many wars as possible as quickly as possible, and his regime is making sure it happens FAST.
All while whining that he should get the Nobel Peace Prize. Did anyone ever explain to him that the Peace in the Peace Prize doesn't stand for "Piece Of Ass" in the Epstein way?
He thought it was a piece of pie.
Only if it was one of those overpriced McDonalds pies.
No paywall
Please shoot first. Let’s kick this thing off. For the record, I’m not for taking Greenland via force.
I just read that Rubio is coming to visit. They could prove their resolve by shooting him first.
I'm all for the sentiment. But embarrassing him would send a better message to the world stage.
Imagine Rubio lands and is greeted by a lei of green flowers.
That would really kick things off. Maybe they will shoot Little Marco in the face.
ICE-style
I doubt Denmark could fend off the U.S., especially since other NATO countries are likely just monitoring the situation rather than taking action.
There are multiple countries having dialogues to plan their actions.
This is no longer a situation where the US can simply walk in and take what it wants and getting a big payoff instead of facing consequences.
Allies will form. Even the worst segment of the US population doesn't want WWIII, a civil war yes, but they don't want their kids drafted to die over the annex of Greenland.
This is the only goal the Europe can aim for. Force the U.S. to take a step that they don't want to, and that they will lose because of. They won't lose militarily, but they could lose politically and economically in the long tern.
The Nordics are pretty great at arctic warfare, just look at how well the Finns did. Pretty much all their gear are usable in arctic conditions and they train regularly for guerrilla warfare in extreme cold. The situation for the US is not the same. Most of their gear will not work in the winter in Greenland.
Im not saying they will win, i just mean that it's more complex than having the larger gun.
However, the US are about to loose big in trade. Who the hell will want to buy American?
The Russians still fear the Finns. Every now and then they get a bit froggy, and the Finns just flip them the bird, and spit in their general direction, and the Russkies scurry on home.
The US has a military base in Greenland already. Pituffik Space Base doesn't appear to be going anywhere, despite all the bluster.
And as the US is the military backbone of NATO, I'm not seeing how NATO as an institution would respond with the leadership structure and base management riddled with American personal.
Please tell me the soldiers there call it "Pity Fuck"
At some point, NATO will have to acknowledge that America is NOT part of their alliance, at least not at this moment. If Russia were to attack Europe, or China were to take Taiwan, Trump wouldn't do a thing about it.
If a real American ever gets into the White House, and not a corrupt traitor pedophile, maybe NATO will have us back, as long as we clean up our act and purge MAGA from our government and society.
If Russia were to attack Europe, or China were to take Taiwan, Trump wouldn’t do a thing about it.
Trump's cabinet is stuffed to the brim with people who are crazy enough to fight a war with China. What they can't handle is China not invading Taiwan and, instead, stacking up China-friendly political allies on the island until the Parliament tips their way.
Meanwhile, Russians are damned near out of gas. They barely have the manpower to control that eastern slice of Ukraine. If they launched attacks into the European mainland and provoked a real material response from a combined Western Europe, they would be in huge trouble. But, again, that was never really Putin's intention. He's been building up alliances with white nationalist parties all across the continent. By 2030, you're going to have a swath of ultra-nationalists running every Parliament from the AfD in Germany to Reform UK.
And he's going to be doing it in coordination with Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkiye, and India. Countries America bribed into a temporary alliance aren't going to be there when the US economy goes into another recessionary tailspin. That's what will really fuck NATO up.
And all this happening on the eve of a climate catastrophe, too.
FINALLY! Someone with some Critical Thinking Skills who gets what's really happening. I've been arguing with people who think that Trump, Russia, and China are all acting totally independently. There is no possible way that they are carving up the world into three showers of influence, despite daily obvious evidence of it EVERY DAY.
And I can't even start to worry about the climate right now. I've got zombies on my doorstep, demanding that I voluntarily offer myself up for enslavement, I can't worry about what's going on down the street right now.
Excellent post.
These are the descendants of Vikings. Let's settle it with a cage match between Stephen "PeeWee Himmler" Miller, and a Viking of their choice.
No tapping out, hand-to-hand battle to the death.
Paul Reubens does not deserve that
Remember who started everything!
I guess we gonna wait for the court in USA to stop Trump. No revolution, sit and watch.
Obviously it was Denmark. Did you even see how it dressed Greenland? What did it expect?
Greenland was dressed in ice, the US is dressed in ICE
No revolution
Nobody wants to be the first one to stick their neck out.
Renee Nicole Good already did.
She got gunned down dropping her daughter off at daycare. She wasn't doing a Leftist 9/11 on the police.
Really? I apologize then, I thought she was intentionally blocking them (which I 100% am in support of, to be clear). I bought the propaganda, I guess, weee :(. Thank you for the correction.
Edit to add: Did further reading and watched earlier video context, and yeah. She was literally waving the ICE cars ahead of herself as to not get in the way. She had nothing to do with the situation and they assumed by her mere presence that she was an agitator and not just someone in the wrong place at the wrong time. JFC.
They're all going to get hammered down anyway.
Look at that, ICE looking for nails that aren't sticking up:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTY0CKQCewD/
I would believe if they would not surrender formally and act hostile then yes.
Seems like there's already enough hostility to justify asking them to leave.
Yep! So if US comes, they will send in their F35, after having keyed in the mission parameters, that will go straight to a Lockheed server in the US to be uploaded in the jets, and with that they will take their ennemy by surprise!
Oh, shit! The jets were shot down! Weren't they stealth??
Danes will have to order more, then…
Phones have got to be ringing off the hook at Saab sales offices right now.
I read the German Luftwaffe is interested in the SAAB Gripen. Fucking Rheinmetall and the German government should cancel the F-35 deal.
Danes will have to order more, then…
Appreciating the spineless incompetence of the elected officials in our government, I suspect that they would bite the pillow and think happy thoughts while ordering replacements.
I heard the US could just remotely disable their equipments... 👀
Can't tell for all of the equipment (from my understanding, they happily buy 100% US…), but for the F35, that's not exact. It needs constant update, and from what I read, it is still usable for ~30 days after they would ban it from the network. But "usable" means back to pen and paper on board for missions…
This is idiotic. Denmark gave US right to freely access it's military bases. They signed new treaty in 2023 and further approved US military bases on their soil in 2025! How will they know US is invading them when US has legal right to access their military installations and can request the use private land in Denmark? They will shoot first and ask if they were Americans later?
souse: https://apnews.com/...
What is idiotic is the bullshit that the paedo in chief is trying to pull.
It doesn't matter what Denmark signed 3 years ago now that the other side is threatening an invasion.
Stop everything until either the orange child rapist is killed, dies, is forcibly ousted, or (lol) common sense prevails. Until then any us soldier or worker should be classed as a threat and any unnecessary us personnel should leave. The end.
If any us person in Greenland has to ask themself "am I necessary?", then they aren't. And should leave.
If the us population doesn't like it then they should do something about the russian stooge they've enabled to be president (twice).
They voted to permit US military bases on Danish soil in 2025, AFTER Trump started talking about taking over Greenland. So Trump made idiotic demand and they rolled over. Now they are trying to play tough. It's just pathetic.
Stop everything until either the orange child rapist is killed, dies, is forcibly ousted, or (lol) common sense prevails. Until then any us soldier or worker should be classed as a threat and any unnecessary us personnel should leave. The end.
Yeah, they could unilaterally pull out of those treaties but they didn't. Until they do talking about "shooting first" is just idiotic.
Fuck, Danish...
As my excuse, English is confusing and it's not my first language. My point still applies to the whole EU though. They have huge leverage over US but are too divided and cowardly to use it.
It doesn't matter. They've gone from "We might bully you" to "We have the right to take anything we want from any other country"
And as with any bully you should stand up to them and never back down. It matters fuck all about contracts and treaties and agreements.
If my next door neighbour said in passing he was going to attack my house, then stated he had the right to attack me in my house you better believe that as soon as I see that neighbour coming anywhere near me then I'm attacking first.
If you want to cower behind 'agreements' then you can. See how that works out for you.
If my next door neighbour said in passing he was going to attack my house, then stated he had the right to attack me in my house you better believe that as soon as I see that neighbour coming anywhere near me then I’m attacking first.
More appropriate analogy would be that you gave your neighbor a key to your home and now you're saying that when he breaks into your home you will beat him up him but he can keep the key and can enter whenever he wants.
"Breaks in" is the important part. Since he has a key your statement is an empty threat but let's you feel in control.
But US can freely access their military bases. And US has their own military bases in Greenland. So who Greenland is going to shoot exactly? The airplanes flying to US bases in Greenland? The soldiers legally entering Danish military bases?
Also:
"When requested, the Danish Executive Agent shall make reasonable efforts to facilitate temporary access to and use of private land and facilities (including roads, ports, and airfields), and public land and facilities (including roads, ports, and airfields) that are not a part of an Agreed Facility and Area, including those owned or controlled by Denmark or by local authorities, by U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, and Danish contractors for use in support of U.S. forces. U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, or Danish contractors shall not bear the cost of such facilitation"
US can request access and Denmark has to facilitate it if possible. They can't just deny it because they don't feel like it. That's the 2023 agreement.
"U.S. forces, U.S. contractors, Danish contractors, dependents, and others as mutually agreed are authorized unimpeded access to and use of Agreed Facilities and Areas for visits; training; exercises; maneuvers; transit; support and related activities; refueling of aircraft; bunkering of vessels; landing and recovery of aircraft; temporary maintenance of vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; accommodation of personnel; communications; staging and deploying of forces and materiel; pre-positioning of equipment, supplies, and materiel; security assistance and cooperation activities; joint and combined training activities; humanitarian and disaster relief activities; contingency operations; construction in support of mutually agreed activities"
agreements with the US don't mean shit anymore, the US has shown that. everything is null.
from what I understand, they also make it pretty easy for American companies to buy licenses to mine whatever they want from the ground
there is no good reason to occupy the country. it makes no sense
what if they didn't want to buy the licenses? what if they just wanted to take everything?
what if the US is the new nazi germany and just needs lebensraum for a post-climate change world?
so many questions, who can say
How will they know US is invading
Counterpoint. How will the US know they have taken Greenland. What will be different?
The first sign will be that when Denmark pulls out of the treaties and tells US to leave they will just ignore them. This will show that Denmark doesn't really control the territory. That's why Denmark didn't do it yet. As long as it's just talk they can keep pretending they can somehow defend themselves.
What US can do to prove they actually have taken the territory is to stage some confrontation, for example start mining there without permission. Will Denmark shoot the miners? Will they send police? Military? What if US military defends the miners? Clearly Denmark will not "shoot first and ask questions later" in this situation but US can show they have effectively taken over.
In the end it really depends on what US want's to achieve here. If they just want resources proving that they can access them at will would be enough,if they want to use if for military operation they just have to prove Denmark can't kick them out, if they want to control their economy (which I doubt) they will have to kick out Danish administration and force citizens to pay taxes to IRS and if they want to humiliate EU they just have to change it on the maps and show that EU can't do anything about it.
This stupid idea of those fucking MAGAts is what Putin likes to see how it would play out.
The Johnathon Ross Doctrine.
Rubio is paying a visit soon...
We should encourage him to take an entourage of high-ranking MAGAs, for the intimidation factor.
" ... that's how America does it ... "
Press (x) for doubt, and the IS Base in Greenland, they can just take down the fence and say "all of your land belong to us"
Denmark’s Parliament on Wednesday approved a bill to allow U.S. military bases on Danish soil, a move that comes as President Donald Trump seeks to take control of the kingdom’s semi-autonomous territory of Greenland.
The account joined 3 months ago. Probably a bot/Russian stooge.
Greenland can vote to leave whenever they want according to their own laws. Though polls show most there want to become completely independent at some point in the future, very few Greenlanders say they want to leave Denmark at this time.
Headline needs to calm the fuck down.
The whole thing is so absurd. How exactly would an American invasion happen? What are they going to attack?
There's a meeting between Denmark and USA next week. Anything you read on news and social media in the meantime is speculation or fear mongering.
You should go listen to Trump's speeches. It's likely posturing, but now we've seen how desperate and backed into the corner he is, it's hard to say what he will do next.
The American people have lost any semblance of control over our leadership.
it might be in the best interest of the United States (as a citizen myself) to vote that the U.S. become a part of Denmark with a 5-7 year hold on voting rights to any changes to current tax law or healthcare laws. 5-7 years from now hearing you will pay $600/month for healthcare to vote in U.S. conservatives with no actual benefits may teach some people something.
What is wrong with you? Do you even realize you're talking about armed robbery or does that simply not register? You're gleefully advocating for murdering other people who've done nothing to you so you can steal their shit, as if that's some God-given right.
What happened to 'Thou shalt not kill', 'Thou shalt not steal' and 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house'?
I didn’t read their comment as advocacy but hopelessness.
Reading it again with that perspective in mind it's possible, if far from clearly the case.
Of course, seeing as how I'm Danish, I'm hardly unbiased. I freely admit that I'm getting more than a little tired of people talking about my impending violent death at the hands of a supposed ally, especially one for which we've already shed more than enough of our blood.
It's entirely possible that I'm losing what little patience I had left for American idiocy.
This is exactly it. There is only one force in the world that can take out a US aircraft carrier, and that's the non-US part of NATO.
Yes, the US has nuclear subs that can stay underwater forever, but they're noisy. They don't have stealthy subs like Sweden, Netherland or many other European countries have. NATO exercises have shown that even one of these subs can wipe out most of a carrier group.
Greenland is far from the US; they'll have to send a carrier. NATO can sink that carrier. How will Trump look if he loses a carrier?
The only thing necessary for this scenario is for the EU to finally grow some balls.
Even my shitty-shit country - Portugal - which most definitelly can't afford the costs of a single aircraft carrier even though it has a massive exclusive economic area in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, some years ago had a submarine win a NATO exercise when it popped up undetected in the middle of the carrier group.
Even with its main focus of "force projection" being on Trade rather than Military power, Europe is a whole different beast to face militarily than Latin America, and not just because it's far more likely to be united in its response.
This is probably why Trump hasn't invaded Greenland yet - his military people know very well it would be a very different story militarily and his diplomats know it would be a very different story in terms of the broader consequences.
I think modern Navies are mostly useless. Between drones and stealth submarines they can all be sunk basically immediately. Honestly this could make it difficult for Europe to intervene at all
Unfortunately the US has the capability to move troop to Greenland by air. It's how it moved most things into Afghanistan. A country much further away.
Truthfully they could launch ballistic missiles from the mainland and then follow with aircraft, paratroopers, etc. The existing bases provide airfields.
I say this not because I want it, but because it's possible and that's frightening.
I don't get why americans think they're the most hardcore motherfuckers out there. They keep losing to people in 30 year old Toyota Hilluxs in the middle of a desert, and people hiding in holes in the jungle with sticks covered in poop.
Sure, they have the capability to destroy every single living thing in the world, but as long as that isn't profitable for them, they won't actually do it.
It's all the tacticool gear.
Of course you wouldn't want people to think that you're gay for having a child! Boost his morale, and yours, with a flag patch! Also doubles as body armor because europoors are pussies and won't shoot a child!
Ah those pesky Boomers. Why bother with thermo-nuclear weapons when you can use a Boomer from 1946-1964.
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For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/...
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
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I see a lot of right wing influencers arguing a kind of might makes right rhetoric. They say that the US should take Greenland simply because it can, and the US needs it. Which makes me wonder if I as a Dane am morally justified in gathering a few friends, breaking into these influencers homes, kicking them out, and just take up residence. After all, I need their houses, and my friends and I are stronger. Isn't that so?
I suppose there is no moral obligation for me to obey American laws, if there is no moral obligation for America to obey international laws. If the US is justified in hostile takeover of a foreign democratic nation, then I see no reason why I, as a Danish citizen, should abide by US laws.
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