If you are coming from Reddit: YSK that Lemmy and Piefed have no karma. Don't delete your posts.

4 days ago by FoxtrotDeltaTango to c/fediverse

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.today/post/54923731

Some accounts are deleting their posts after a few downvotes. It's devastating on communities like c/asklemmy.

Lemmy doesn't track an account's karma like reddit. So, all downvotes will be isolated to your post or comment and won't affect your account—unless you wrote something truly horrible.

Remember lemmy is a community effort. Deleting a post also removes all comments on it. So you are not only robbing the effort others put in, you are actively removing knowledge from the fediverse. Others won't be able to find it through search and lemmy will seem lonelier than it already is.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod 73 points 4 days ago

Deleting a post because it got downvotes? Who are these babies who can’t take people not liking them?

save

path: 0 24322743, hotness: undefined, score: 73, children: 27

BarbecueCowboy 59 points 4 days ago

Sometimes down votes are a sign that you're saying things people don't want to hear or the right things but on a crazy instance, but sometimes down votes are a chance for self reflection where you have to ask yourself "Am I the asshole?" and in the latter case yeah I'm probably just going to delete it. No apologies though, I'm not looking to be a saint here.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896, hotness: undefined, score: 59, children: 8

iocase 8 points 3 days ago

Yeah like that time I commented on horshoe theory on a tankie sublemmy (honestly my fault. That's like smoking next to the pump at a gas station) which really pissed off a lot of tankies lol.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 7

hansolo 4 points 3 days ago

It doesn't even take that. Sometimes it just takes one opinion literally anywhere that one tankie sees that hurts their feelings, and they brigade away. It's totally random. I've enjoyed them doing that on shitposts and memes on sub's totally unrelated to .ml madness.

It also makes me think that there's only actually like 10 or 20 tankies that each cycle through 30 accounts each, and one guy in Beijing that runs the "Propaganda: Other Platforms" desk coordinating of all. Or maybe that's just a function of their groupthink. Hard to say.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24345178, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2

iocase 4 points 3 days ago

I'm still new to Lemmy but yeah I've noticed that too. They show up anywhere they see stuff they don't like.

What's kind of fun is you can basically summon them by saying "Trotsky wouldn't have been better than Stalin" three times in a mirror.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24345178 24345252, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1

BarbecueCowboy 3 points 2 days ago

You didn't consider how Russia/China would feel before commenting on .ml? Absolutely scandalous.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24358600, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

iocase 2 points 2 days ago

For more context, my comment was making fun of how both fascists and tankies will line people up against a wall and shoot them for being the out group.

The vitriol I experienced lead me to believe that if it wouldn't have explicitly proved my point for me, they would have threatened to line me up against a wall and shoot me for being the outgroup lmao!

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24358600 24361178, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

garbage_world 0 points 3 days ago

I mean, that's a skill issue on your side.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24344863, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 1

iocase 1 point 3 days ago

Yeah I'm new here if it wasn't obvious by my prior comment haha

save

path: 0 24322743 24322896 24344554 24344863 24346093, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

TheTechnician27 42 points 4 days ago

I will say in their defense that some people delete their comments/posts not because they care about "karma" but because they now feel they were wrong and are genuinely embarrassed or think that its continued presence is just an annoyance to other people.

That said, imo, unless you realize you've broken a rule in posting it or literally just posted by accident, it's healthier for yourself and the community to simply e.g. edit in a correction and a "mea culpa", even if you continue to get dogpiled for it.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900, hotness: undefined, score: 42, children: 7

Semi_Hemi_Demigod 7 points 4 days ago

Everyone’s presence is annoying. That’s called being human.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24322992, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 4

frongt 3 points 4 days ago

Is there no one in your life whose presence you enjoy?

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24322992 24323146, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3

Semi_Hemi_Demigod 7 points 4 days ago

All the time? Fuck no. Hell, my wife and I love each other in part because we like time alone.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24322992 24323146 24324032, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

Shellofbiomatter 2 points 4 days ago

That's an impossible standard to achieve. Best one can do is become neutral, whatever benefits they bring balances out the burden of dealing with them.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24322992 24323146 24323859, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Lost_My_Mind 1 point 4 days ago

Not who you're replying to, but.....nope.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24322992 24323146 24323174, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

iocase 3 points 3 days ago

I delete them when I don't have the energy to argue with people online about things. They can be the one terminally online. I'm not chasing them down that rabbit hole. Especially when you get comment after comment replying to you and you know they don't want to argue in good faith and you're just signing up to get cyber bullied by a brick wall.

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24344568, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

gravitas_deficiency 3 points 4 days ago

I have, in the several years I’ve been here, deleted only a handful of comments - pretty much exclusively as a result of me being in a terrible mood and/or too drunk and commenting something very stupid or dickish, then reading it the next morning and going “what the fuck was I doing 🤦‍♂️”. That is thankfully vanishingly rare for me lol

save

path: 0 24322743 24322900 24333452, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

Cris_Citrus 22 points 4 days ago

As someone with social anxiety for some people seeing a large negative social response to something you said or did, even if just abstractly represented by a number, can be pretty distressing 🤷🏻‍♂️

I generally leave stuff up unless its misleading or something, but I can empathize with why someone would take it down

save

path: 0 24322743 24324560, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 0

TropicalDingdong 14 points 4 days ago

people not liking them

Half of lemmy:

save

path: 0 24322743 24322833, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0

brave_lemmywinks 4 points 4 days ago

I've had discussions here with people that don't want down votes, like in YouTube. There are instances that have them disabled.

save

path: 0 24322743 24323950, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

FiniteBanjo 2 points 4 days ago

The other day somebody asked me a question and I couldn't be bothered to deal with them, but later on I decided to answer in earnest and deleted the previous response.

save

path: 0 24322743 24326579, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1

Semi_Hemi_Demigod 4 points 4 days ago

That’s so annoying

save

path: 0 24322743 24326579 24327438, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

TachyonTele 2 points 4 days ago

I've seen it a few times. It's stupid. Why bother participating if you're just going to take your ball home, so to speak.

save

path: 0 24322743 24324949, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Lost_My_Mind 1 point 4 days ago

Have you seen the president, or met any of the millions of people who voted for him?

save

path: 0 24322743 24323159, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Summzashi -13 points 4 days ago

All around you.

I want to prove I'm not a baby so please downvote this comment.

Edit: please stop you're hurting my feelings

save

path: 0 24322743 24332029, hotness: undefined, score: -13, children: 2

gravitas_deficiency 2 points 4 days ago

Me too, go ahead - it doesn’t matter.

What matters is when people scan your post history and check why you were downvoted, given the context of the comment. The community here is smaller, so if you post consistently, you can actually build a meaningful organic reputation (that is: other user’s opinions of you). Karma doesn’t matter. What you post, and how you engage with other users does.

save

path: 0 24322743 24332029 24333418, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

1984 2 points 3 days ago

Downvote my comment, so I can share your pain. I promise I will spend at least five seconds caring.

save

path: 0 24322743 24332029 24338696, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

MousePotatoDoesStuff 14 points 3 days ago

That's one of fediverse's most underused selling points. Karma farming is impossible here.

save

path: 0 24339805, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0

MyBrainHurts 13 points 4 days ago

I get that but there's also a certain "ugh" when a bunch of .ml folks find a post and want to yell at you about it.

save

path: 0 24322976, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 12

homesweethomeMrL 6 points 4 days ago

We all gotta find out about the .ml someday.

save

path: 0 24322976 24323071, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 4

MyBrainHurts 6 points 4 days ago

For sure. But it's just tiring to get notifications for hours of someone yelling about shit libs or something.

save

path: 0 24322976 24323071 24324383, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 3

TachyonTele 3 points 4 days ago

That's a different situation though. Getting dogpiled isn't fun. Op is talking about regular normal posts and comments.

save

path: 0 24322976 24323071 24324383 24324982, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2

MyBrainHurts 3 points 4 days ago

That's totally fair. I guess I have a hard time imaging anyone caring about downvotes so I assumed it had to be something like what I described.

save

path: 0 24322976 24323071 24324383 24324982 24326289, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

pmk 3 points 4 days ago

You can block them once and for all. It's like they don't exist.

save

path: 0 24322976 24324583, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3

MyBrainHurts 4 points 4 days ago

Yeah but the fediverse is still so small that I would miss a lot of content.

My current set up is to watch for .ml posters/comms and avoid commenting. For other, less immediately obvious folks, I'll tag them with a pukey emoji after an unpleasant interaction and generally avoid engaging.

The thing that set up has really brought home is that while there are many folks I find aggressively ignorant, they may still post fun stuff in more neutral, non politics subs. Really eye opening how much I can vehemently disagree with someone in one context and have them be perfectly fine and even funny in another.

save

path: 0 24322976 24324583 24326279, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2

OpenStars 3 points 4 days ago

I don't miss it one bit, personally. The positives to blocking the whole instance far outweighs the negatives, imho. There are tons of other communities, and it helps make room for such things as poetry (with barely any subscribers and almost no commenters) to show up.

Ofc you do you - there may be a specific community that you feel that you cannot do without. Perhaps you can help by reposting stuff from it elsewhere.

save

path: 0 24322976 24324583 24326279 24327641, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

iocase 1 point 3 days ago

It would be nice if instead of banning someone from your feed you could change their color (or color code their instance) so all .mls would be red I guess? Or maybe black like Stalin's moustache?

save

path: 0 24322976 24324583 24326279 24344589, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Summzashi 1 point 4 days ago

Honestly the folks at .ml are actually kinda chill compared to that one instance with the bear.

save

path: 0 24322976 24332047, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 2

emergencyfood 1 point 3 days ago

So you'd rather be in a forest with a mali than in one with a bear?

save

path: 0 24322976 24332047 24345153, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

Summzashi 0 points 3 days ago

Nah I'd pick like 500 bears first

save

path: 0 24322976 24332047 24345153 24345440, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0

realcaseyrollins 12 points 4 days ago

People delete their posts because they aren't getting karma? That's kinda sad.

save

path: 0 24322631, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 4

exussum -7 points 4 days ago

save

path: 0 24322631 24322673, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 3

PP_BOY_ 3 points 4 days ago

100% true, very well put. This was an excellent comment

save

path: 0 24322631 24322673 24322991, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

Lost_My_Mind 1 point 4 days ago

OH COME ON!!! You can't just say divisive things like that!!! Delete this post!!!

save

path: 0 24322631 24322673 24323226, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

realcaseyrollins 1 point 4 days ago

lol

save

path: 0 24322631 24322673 24323226 24323316, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

TropicalDingdong 11 points 4 days ago

I was on reddit for 10 years and have been on lemmy for 3. I'm still not sure what this is really supposed to mean.

There is absolutely a "lifetime" karma score available for users, its just not centered in peoples bios like it is on lemmy. But it absolutely exists..

And if people want to go for high scores more power to them. Get that dopamine where you can queen.

save

path: 0 24322725, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 9

chortle_tortle 9 points 4 days ago

I think their point is that on reddit, life time karma impacts the comment placement order; showing more comments from higher karma accounts. So I guess weirdos would delete comments that started to get negative votes on reddit so they weren't seen as undesirable by the algorithm.

save

path: 0 24322725 24322921, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 1

aloofPenguin 4 points 4 days ago

Also, aren't there some subreddits that let you post if you have a certain amount of karma?

save

path: 0 24322725 24322921 24324349, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

avidamoeba 4 points 4 days ago

Elaborate pls. I know Piefed tracks the user's votes under Attitude, but I'm not aware of tracking of other people's votes on users posts and comments. Am I missing something?

save

path: 0 24322725 24322913, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 4

Coelacanth 8 points 4 days ago

Total per-account upvotes minus downvotes value is tracked for everyone, it is just hidden by choice in Lemmy. Other softwares have other approaches, Piefed has the "attitude" you mentioned. Kbin used to just show the full "karma" value, I'm not sure if Mbin still does. It doesn't appeal to me so I don't keep up with development.

save

path: 0 24322725 24322913 24323163, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 3

avidamoeba 3 points 4 days ago

Oh yeah, good point. It's what lemvotes.org depends on.

save

path: 0 24322725 24322913 24323163 24324317, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

Rekall_Incorporated 1 point 3 days ago

Never understood why people would care about how did an invite on pseudo anonymous underground forum.

save

path: 0 24322725 24322913 24323163 24324317 24344378, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

mesamunefire 1 point 4 days ago

Yeah each platform has their own way to "deal" with the issue. You get a choice. Which is nice :)

save

path: 0 24322725 24322913 24323163 24324394, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

SpaceNoodle 2 points 4 days ago

Where is it?

save

path: 0 24322725 24322997, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1

rockSlayer 2 points 4 days ago

Metadata, mostly

save

path: 0 24322725 24322997 24323043, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

melsaskca 9 points 4 days ago

What if we aren't coming from Reddit? I had good karma way before the internet ever existed because I tried my best to treat the world around me with love and respect. Now that I'm older and knee-deep in the world's tech I find I've become a bit irascible. Maybe that's more a product of age than social engineering. I hope so.

save

path: 0 24332936, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 1

hansolo 4 points 3 days ago

Then you simply won't feel the usual pressure to perform that people worried about karma feel before posting anything.

Maybe that's why people on Lemmy are also sort of extra curmudgeonly. They can be without facing algorithmic consequences.

save

path: 0 24332936 24345083, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

Nytefyre 9 points 4 days ago

I don't think it's just downvotes that are the reason posts are deleted. What's being ignored, is what follows after downvotes. And that is, users being antagonistic over nuanced posts because the posts don't contain the kind of brainrot-meme-lamejoke kind of content that is the norm.

And it is never a good feeling getting dogpiled on for absolutely no reason other than just not appeasing to whatever expectancy that is there. Additionally, when there isn't enough activity aside from that, people can feel like 'what's the point?' because they simply don't have enough numbers of people engaging.

So this creates this discouragement within them to keep bothering.

save

path: 0 24323218, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 1

fizzle 2 points 4 days ago

I think this is probably the usual reason, rather than downvotes or whatever.

save

path: 0 24323218 24324591, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

solrize 7 points 4 days ago

Devastating? Jeez.

If you want to make a code change proposal, go ahead and make one. Otherwise, deletion is a feature offered to Lemmy users to use as they see fit. In fact some earlier (unrelated) proposals to speed up the software were rejected on the grounds that deletion is required to actually scrub the entry from the database, rather than simply making it inaccessible through the web. The scrubbing requirement may have been abandoned by now though.

I half remember a Lemmy client (Voyager Jerboa?) with a user setting to automatically delete any post or comment that the user makes after 7 days or something. It had nothing to do with karma. I didn't use that setting but it seemed reasonable to me. Lemmy is a discussion forum not a long term archive.

I do like the idea of adding a wiki feature to Lemmy, to hold info of long term value to a community. Reddit already has something like that.**

save

path: 0 24324300, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 3

Grimy 4 points 4 days ago

The comments under the post is content that other users contribute to. It's very frustrating to be having what amounts to a conversation in the comments just for OP to thrash the whole thing. There's also the problem that a lot of deleted posts are bots probably building a "unique" dataset to sell after (just a hypothesis).

No reason why we can't just have the body and the username removed from the post while keeping the comment section imo.

save

path: 0 24324300 24326697, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2

la93 4 points 4 days ago

I like the suggestion in your last sentence. Some deletions might be humans knowing their posts are being used to build unique data sets to do whatever the miner wants to do with them.

save

path: 0 24324300 24326697 24326810, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

solrize 2 points 3 days ago

Yes I see what you're getting at. IDK how a software change proposal would be received. It could be that the devs think that the other comments on the thread could somehow identify the original poster or the topic. On at least one reddit subgroup there's a bot that does that on purpose (copies the original post and maybe the author name into a thread comment). The reasons for the bot might be specific to the subreddit.

save

path: 0 24324300 24326697 24336971, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 7 points 4 days ago

Is that why??? Oh man I was wondering why some people did that. Deleting their posts before I even have time to reply

save

path: 0 24323399, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

Tollana1234567 6 points 3 days ago

karma is heavily abused by botters, spammers, and used as an excuse by reddit/mods to filter out people they dont like.

save

path: 0 24345210, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

naught101 5 points 4 days ago

Deleting a post doesn't delete the comments, it just makes then undiscoverable/inaccessible. See https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5525

save

path: 0 24325505, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 4

chicken 1 point 4 days ago

So this problem should be solvable with only changes to client code then?

save

path: 0 24325505 24325867, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 3

OpenStars 2 points 4 days ago

PieFed allows you to see the comments on deleted posts for exactly this reason.

save

path: 0 24325505 24325867 24327673, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

waldfee 1 point 3 days ago

I'm on summit and I can still interact with the commentsections of deleted posts, so yes I think so

save

path: 0 24325505 24325867 24337392, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

naught101 1 point 4 days ago

Not sure, there might be APIs that also need updating. But the data is there.

save

path: 0 24325505 24325867 24325961, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Brewchin 4 points 4 days ago

Internet points aren't the only reason people delete their posts/comments, though?

I think people should think seriously about deleting posts, but comments that don't contribute to the discussion for whatever reason definitely have a shelf life.

And that's aside from the old "a comment you made 10 years ago in another life gets you fired/cancelled" issues due to times changing, some shitlord quoting you out of context, etc, etc.

save

path: 0 24323351, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

Th4tGuyII 4 points 4 days ago

Not that I care about it, but mBin definitely does have a lifetime reputation score you can find on someone's profile if you really care to see it

save

path: 0 24323133, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

SCmSTR 4 points 4 days ago

RESPECTABILITY POLITICS IS EVERYTHINNNNNNGGGG

save

path: 0 24327876, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

itrealgood 4 points 4 days ago

save

path: 0 24323076, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

fizzle 3 points 4 days ago

On one hand, yes I find it irritating the way people treat their profile like some kind of extension of their personality and only post comments that will be well received.

One the other hand, I don't really see much "knowledge" being removed from the fediverse. I don't really understand how this behavior is devastating to communities.

save

path: 0 24324625, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

stumu415 3 points 3 days ago

Just don't post any real shit post in the sublemmy shitpost. That will get you a ban. Only picture of fairies and unicorns are allowed for these poor sensitive souls. I though lemmy would be more educated than reddit but unfortunately there are a small group of loud little bitches everywhere ruining the world for everyone else.

save

path: 0 24346180, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

LemmyEntertainYou 3 points 3 days ago

People actually cared about Reddit karma?

save

path: 0 24345592, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

TORFdot0 3 points 4 days ago

I figured it was just instances culling old posts without a lot of engagement. I’ve had posts or comments that I’ve made get deleted and I didn’t request them

save

path: 0 24324240, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

InFerNo 2 points 4 days ago

save

path: 0 24331336, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Darthcapi 2 points 4 days ago

Don’t tell me what to do. Also, thanks for the info!

save

path: 0 24323809, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

makeshift0546 1 point 4 days ago

save

path: 0 24326712, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

atro_city 1 point 4 days ago

I've deleted multiple posts for different reasons:

answers were crap (mostly offtopic, missing the point, simply attacking me instead of the question, etc.)
mbin doesn't support muting notifications from topics, so I'd just keep getting them, so it was simpler to delete than wait for people to stop talking
I got my answers and it wasn't that important

I don't give 2 shits about "points". You could make this the most downvoted comment on the planet and I would leave it up (if I didn't get notifications)

save

path: 0 24324456, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

originalucifer 1 point a day ago

ysk that on mbin, your rep points (karma) exist

save

path: 0 24373671, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Rules

Rules