Man that's so true..it's like a virus, you can't put a bunch of viruses together, they won't last long. They can't exist without a host to infect with their hate.

Ahh, I wasn't aware

W

Maybe better not say it, so we don’t give them attention

It's called exploding heads. You can find it through google, but I don't want to link to it.

This one. (Not a link to the defederated site, rather a link to one of the concern trolls whining about the defederation)

exploding-heads.com

Exploding heads

Hey man I was barely awake.

"sublemmys" is a great silly name, though

No. Why would I want to?

Nah, there was another thing. Link here

Definitely a good move to defederate that cesspit

The issue is if these lists end up being blindly copied based on trust, and instances that don't deserve to be banned end up being banned by dozens of instances just because they're copying lists.

Something similar happened with Twitter banlists. A lot of the accounts were trolls and fascists and whatnot, but oftentimes someone with progressive views who is just a little controversial ends up on a banlist and banned by half of Twitter because one guy decided to stick him on a widely used banlist.

While you did clarify for MrEUser. I will say that they could be weaponized if they are just taken by instances without understanding why they were blocked by the originating instance (especially if it is a larger one). It is obviously up to the instance creators to research things. So I am not saying that it is the same as Reddit outright banning links to sites.

But I think it is fair to consider that since many of the sites that are blocked are either linking possibly illegal or openly bigoted content. That plenty of others will think that all the blocked instances are doing those things. All because the more mainstream a site becomes with "normies", they just see it as black and white (like they do with lots of real world things). While the actual case is that the ones that aren't doing those things might just be blocked due to more nuanced reasons. Maybe it is simply differences in politics or maybe even just the creator trying to only federate with instances of the same language in order to make sure everyone can read the posts/comments.

That doesn't mean that instances being able to block other instances is automatically bad or anything. It is very helpful to be able to openly see which instances are and aren't allowed. Which is at least surface level transparent for users and potential users. And can be used for creators of instances that might have been blocked to reach out and work things out if it was blocked. Which is something that (to my knowledge) all the major social media sites do not offer and tend to hide. Preferring shadowbans and only openly admitting it if it is super problematic (like bigots or openly illegal stuff).

So these lists are both block AND allow lists? Or are they just allow lists?

Evergreen meme:

Considering it's their own instance, it doesn't matter.

Love ‘em!

Imagine thinking far left and far right are equivalent.

Right wing extremists burn people alive, while left wing extremists burn cars.

Obviously the latter is far worse as it could be my car but I don't own any humans.

pretty based ngl

Deserving a voice is in no way the same as deserving an audience.

Fascism isn’t an ideology that gets defeated in the marketplace of ideas. It’s core belief is enabling a small minority to violently destroy other lives. It’s not worth your consideration.

I agree with this, but some beliefs are well... utterly stupid and not worth reconsidering. It's a waste of time really.

Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

Nazis had a voice once, and folks listened to them. And we ended up with the Holocaust.

Might be controversial but I don't believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that's a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

The problem is, this isn’t just a challenge to beliefs. This is the internet. The darkest most depraved shit that can exist… does. People forcing children to do things with animals… I’ll stop there…

The U.S. constitution supports free speech. Even it has limits. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater and not face the consequences of injuries your speech causes.

It's actually a limp ice cold take that's been debated to death

The world came together in WWII and decided that Nazis didn't deserve a place at the table. There's a difference between "let's decide whose economic policy is more useful now" and "hey I want everyone to have a nice life and these guys think a large chunk of the world doesn't deserve to live at all."

@kityr @borlax on the fediverse we ban the "nazis deserve a voice" types

I like my beliefs challenged

you like it when "other people should be treated as people as a bare minimum" is getting challenged? because that's the belief that your average xeno-/homo-/transphobic asshole challenges. Many beliefs I have ought to be challenged on the regular, but not THAT one

There's a difference between “I don't respect this person's humanity” based on traits they were born with versus active choices and decisions that person has made. I would define one of the core human traits as care and empathy for others, and I don't think Nazis demonstrate that trait

But it's ok to dehumanize someone who I disagree with. /s.

FYI: if their ideology is based on hurting people, we can punch them freely - they AGREE that violence is fine.

Agree to disagree

Oh I'm sorry, does it hurt the feelings of neonazis and white supremacists if I call them Nazis? Thank goodness someone told me. I'll be sure to keep calling them Nazis from now on

I will never tire of people who do not grasp linguistics trying to be pedantic about words.

In a living language, words mean whatever people currently use them to mean. This is how "literally" literally doesn't mean "literally" anymore. Most people use Nazi to refer to both 1930s German National Socialists and modern day white supremacists. Therefore, that's what it means. English is not a dead language like Latin, so stop trying to treat it like one with regards to this one word. It just makes you look like a Nazi.

Bah.. you can argue semantics all day long, I have no qualm calling these alt-right fucks nazis. Just look at the dumpsterfire that voat.co became. Nazis comes close enough to describe that.

Incorrect

So when men march wearing black balaclava and waving actual nazi flags, calling themselves nazis and intimidating vulnerable minorities with violence, you don't call them Nazis? Really?

Edit: This is neither hypothetical nor a unique occurrence

They were a political party and movement in world war II Germany based upon politics and cultural norms of the United States. We got the OG Nazis. Yes they weren't named Nazis. That much like the term fascism was something coined by others. But refer to systems that were already prevalent here.

Agree to disagree

Depends on the country, it's not illegal to be a Nazi in the USA or Canada for example.

If your instance defederates from another one both dont get updates of the other instance anymore which means that you cant interact with any community or user on that instance. I dont know if the content from before the defederation also gets made unavailable or if it is still up.

Plus, I'd rather have those useless fuckers out in the open - it's easier to hit them that way. Hit them with legal charges is what I meant, of course.

Excellent example of why giant instances are bad ideas. Nazis love forcing you into a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" type choice because it means they can continue their hateful, destructive, genocidal behaviors without consequences. They're usually not stupid, they know what they're doing is wrong, they just want to keep getting away with it. So they'll go nuclear on anyone and everyone in order to maintain their comfy corner of hate.

Any moderator (or stadium owner) who doesn't give Nazis jerking off in a corner a lifetime ban is negligent, as you said.

I don't know about where you guys live, but where I am, a Nazi in a stadium would get trampled to death.

Main issue is that in a large enough group of people, there are bound to be a few Nazis that slip in and start causing shit.

Going nuclear (defederating) on the whole group before they are aware or can react to this revelation is completely unreasonable. Even more so when the instance owners, moderators and the community are aware and actively down-voting and removing comments and communities.

Literally anyone who isn't a bigot/Nazi is welcome. I'm so sorry if that's an 'insular cult' to you, but to most people that's just decent company.

It's not a fine line. More like an 8-lane highway

As the old and wise George Carlin used to say..."fuck the ducking fuckers". Use the word! It literally can be every word in a full sentence.

Word, I guess. I haven't thought about Facebook for about a decade or more. Glad to see they are still crashing and burning. Although...normally you'd burn up an evaporate by now. Can we get the MySpace treatment for Facebook already?

Also Allianz, Audi, BASF, Bayer, Zeiss, Siemens oh and Hugo Boss just to name a few. Were directly involved with Nazis using forced labor among other things. Oh and lets not forget Ford in the USA. Produced vehicles for the Nazis, and openly supported them. Lots of companies still around today got a lovely big kick start because of the Nazis.

Did you put a lot of thought into that one?

Yes, there's a difference between use and mention, but slurs are still slurs even outside of a negative context or without hateful intent.

Repeating slurs isn't always necessary and can sometimes still be emotionally draining for the targetted group to see even outside of the negative context. Just something to keep in mind.

Yes I am aware of what it stands for. That is exactly why I use the term and call it out. While I may have a good bit in common with them being socialist myself. That does not mean that I approve of authoritarianism or government suppression. Something that comes with every authoritarian ideology whether they are capitalist or socialist. I can waste my concerns and try to be respectful about it. If they decide they don't want it No they're free to block it.

the world is much more simple when your head isn't filled with garbage propaganda

Preach my man

Yeah it either wasn't removed for me or because I'm an admin of my own instance I could still see it anyway