~~Almost~~ OVER 90% of the accounts on lemmy are now bot accounts!!

3 years ago by Martineski to c/lemmy

Here you can see 2 day old post warning about the danger of not using email/captcha verification: https://lemmy.ml/post/1345031

And here are stats of lemmy platform where it shows that we gained 200 000 lemmy users in 2 days: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/dailystats

Another tracking site with the same explosion in users: https://the-federation.info/platform/73

What do you think? Is it some sort of a bug or do people run bot farms?

Edit2: It's been now 3 days and we went from 150 000 user accounts 3 days ago to 700 000 user accounts today making it 550 000+ bot accounts and counting. Almost 80% accounts on lemmy are now bots and it may end up being an very serious issue for lemmy platform once they become active.

Edit3: It's now 4th day of the attack and the amount of accounts on lemmy has almost reached 1 200 000. Almost 90% of total userbase are now bots.

Edit 3.1: my numbers are outdated, there are currently 1 700 000 accounts which makes it even worse: https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy

animist 123 points 3 years ago

I ONLY SEE OTHER HUMANS WHO EAT FOOD WITH THEIR MOUTH HOLES

path: 0 444112, hotness: undefined, score: 123, children: 11
xtremeownage 82 points 3 years ago
{ "type": "comment response", "message", "I too, am certainly a human, and not a robot"}
path: 0 444112 444229, hotness: undefined, score: 82, children: 8
Itsyaboimuf 25 points 3 years ago

Beep boop

path: 0 444112 444229 444673, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 3
xtremeownage 8 points 3 years ago

01 received. Returning 0b1000101

path: 0 444112 444229 444673 445297, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 2
_haha_oh_wow_ 4 points 3 years ago

Haha, yes, totally normal human th

“error:PDP_DETECTED_FATAL_ERROR”

path: 0 444112 444229 444673 445297 448371, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
Flim 10 points 3 years ago

I think it should be “message”: instead of “message”, (colon instead of comma)

path: 0 444112 444229 444546, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 1
Crackhappy 3 points 3 years ago

Thatsthejoke.gif

path: 0 444112 444229 444546 446068, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
halcyon 2 points 3 years ago

The word "halibut" means "holy flatfish" (hali=holy + butte=flatfish) ... I too am not a bot... Follow for more fish facts!

path: 0 444112 444229 506720, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
dogmuffins 2 points 3 years ago

syntax error, malformed JSON.

path: 0 444112 444229 497548, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Martineski 35 points 3 years ago

As a large language model human I agree

path: 0 444112 444144, hotness: undefined, score: 35, children: 0
p0ppe 2 points 3 years ago

Beep, boop, boop, beep.

path: 0 444112 446508, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
PrinceHabib72 44 points 3 years ago

Every new account isn't a bot, though. We don't have real numbers to work with yet.

path: 0 444327, hotness: undefined, score: 44, children: 10
Martineski 32 points 3 years ago

When reddit migration begun we saw a huge bump in users and it was steadly stabilising and less users were joing, then this huge bump happened. You can go browse lemmy instances and see how many instances are ghost instances with 0 posts and comments that have tens of thousands of users.

path: 0 444327 444328, hotness: undefined, score: 32, children: 9
xtremeownage 24 points 3 years ago

Do also note- instances with little activity aren't that unusual though-

My instance for example- I don't really have any communities here, other then a few local to my server. As such, its activity... is pretty low. Everything happens elsewhere.

path: 0 444327 444328 444646, hotness: undefined, score: 24, children: 2
Martineski 11 points 3 years ago

Does your instance have tens of thousands accounts?

path: 0 444327 444328 444646 444659, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 1
xtremeownage 2 points 3 years ago

Nah, < 100. So, it hasn't been hit by a big bot wave at least.

path: 0 444327 444328 444646 444659 445172, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
sleepyducky 12 points 3 years ago

There a new influx in the user migration as well, as some subreddits started pinning lemmy and kbin.social instances on their subs. Also if you go on protest subreddits (such as ModCoord and Save3rdPartyApps) almost every post has a thread/comment redirecting people to the fediverse.

path: 0 444327 444328 448576, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
Martineski 0 points 3 years ago

If you check the numbers from initial wave you will notice how realistic numbers look.

path: 0 444327 444328 448576 454130, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
Martineski 4 points 3 years ago

https://the-federation.info/platform/73 to see those instances open the link and sort instances by user amount.

Edit: Just noticed that this site is not up to date. There are actually around 1000 instances on lemmy now and the site shows a little over 300 instances.

path: 0 444327 444328 444400, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 3
eric5949 19 points 3 years ago
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T156 7 points 3 years ago

In fairness, that instance probably hasn't started interacting with their communities just yet, or else they would consider defederating. I doubt that they spend enough time to start trying to defederate from every instance over x amount of users, only the troublesome ones. They probably don't have the manpower to scan for every instance over x amount of people, and to defederate from them, if they were already have enough trouble keeping up with sh.it.just.works and lemmy.world's userbases.

path: 0 444327 444328 444400 444653 445245, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
dystop 6 points 3 years ago

i pretty much consider beehaw a separate thing of its own at this point.

path: 0 444327 444328 444400 444653 461058, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
FrankTheHealer 38 points 3 years ago

Everyone on Lemmy is a bot except me

path: 0 464472, hotness: undefined, score: 38, children: 4
talou 18 points 3 years ago

All your base are belong to us

path: 0 464472 464943, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 0
flathead 8 points 3 years ago

Everyone on Lemmy is me, except this bot.

path: 0 464472 464511, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
withersailor 8 points 3 years ago path: 0 464472 465276, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
Mert 2 points 3 years ago

😠

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Badass_panda 33 points 3 years ago

Where are you getting that 90% figure? I'm seeing stratospherically higher activity than I was a week ago, I'm willing to buy half to 2/3 of those accounts being a combination of alt accounts, duplicate accounts (e.g., people moving off beehaw) and bot accounts, but 90% bots sounds implausible.

Nobody is making 1.6 million bots to target 100,000 users.

path: 0 445896, hotness: undefined, score: 33, children: 4
dogmuffins 1 point 3 years ago

What about bots to talk to the bots thought?

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Martineski -2 points 3 years ago

The platform has no measures against farming bots that's why the number of bots is this stupid high, it's very easy to do at the moment.

path: 0 445896 448038, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 2
minimar 12 points 3 years ago

You were asked to source the number you're using.

path: 0 445896 448038 458590, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
Badass_panda 9 points 3 years ago

But everyone's evidence that it's happening a lot is that there are lots of new users, and that it'd be easy to make it happen.

That's conjecture, not evidence.

path: 0 445896 448038 453382, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
OpenStars 28 points 3 years ago

Test: if it says "hey guys, remember how great Reddit was, we should totally go back!?" - then it's a bot:-P.

path: 0 453865, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 7
Martineski 6 points 3 years ago

You have too much faith in redditors

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SubArcticTundra 6 points 3 years ago

My conspiracy theory is that it's Spez creating the bots as revenge

path: 0 453865 465604, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 1
musicalcactus 4 points 3 years ago

That's my theory too. He's acting like a cornered animal and needs to drive traffic back to reddit. What better way to do that than to break the website power users have been migrating to and advertising on Reddit?

Then June 30 the straggling migrants still holding out til the end will come over to a broken website.

I think spez hopes that their broken spirit and desperation will help drive people back to reddit, but a bot influx this huge, he must be legitimately worried.

It could also be spez bootlickers, but I would be shocked if someone who had the same knowhow to build a bot army was simultaneously stupid enough to not see the bigger picture happening at corporate.

path: 0 453865 465604 477570, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
ZcaT 4 points 3 years ago

hey guys, remember how great Reddit was, we should totally go back!?

path: 0 453865 470226, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 3
OpenStars 3 points 3 years ago

Nice try, bot! :-P

(Edit: I want to boost your comment, but I don't want my record to show that I boosted a comment like THAT!:-D)

path: 0 453865 470226 489065, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
QuadratureSurfer 1 point 3 years ago

Well, technically anyone can also see your upvotes and downvotes...

path: 0 453865 470226 489065 497260, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1
OpenStars 1 point 3 years ago

Oh. (Still worth upvoting it though:-)

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Flicsmo 27 points 3 years ago

That's worrying. Though at least it seems they're mostly confined to a few particular instances. Defederating is a great tool that will definitely mitigate the worst of it, but at the same time this is uncharted water - there's no real way of knowing what exactly will happen in a large scale attack.

Just creating accounts isn't an attack, but it's going to suck when there actually is one. I wonder if they'll try to be subtle and use AI or recycled content, or if they'll just use the accounts for spam or DDoS?

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Mechanize 35 points 3 years ago

Probably they are getting ready for some vote manipulation and astroturfing for the long run.
You know, in case Lemmy and the Fediverse really get mainstream enough to move the public opinion in some way.

Having a thousand accounts that can upvote a seemingly innocent post made by an active and "real" account is always useful.

path: 0 444477 444694, hotness: undefined, score: 35, children: 4
Flicsmo 13 points 3 years ago

Yeah good point. I think these particular bot instances are being way too obvious to do any major damage - not when it's as simple as it is to defederate them - but what'll happen when it's not 100k bots on one instance, but 1000 instances with 100 bots apiece?

Let's hope Lemmy gets the tools needed to deal with this. I wonder how Mastodon does it? They've been around a while, I'm sure they've had similar issues.

path: 0 444477 444694 445029, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 1
T156 4 points 3 years ago

It might not even be a case of 1000 instances. The nature of Lemmy is such that they could get around a defederation by simply firing up a new instance.

There's not much in the Lemmy toolkit that can deal with people firing up a brand new instance to spam with. You can defederate from them after the fact, but it doesn't stop them making a new one, and continuing.

path: 0 444477 444694 445029 446061, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
socsa 4 points 3 years ago

These things are always going to be an issue on Lemmy though. Alt detection will basically be impossible.

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Dick_Justice 1 point 3 years ago

Or worse, like Twitter aand Facebook misinformation campaigns.

path: 0 444477 444694 445893, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
IsThisLemmyOpen 2 points 3 years ago
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Lexam 25 points 3 years ago

This is incorrect human. Please go about your regular day and don't forget to visit www.maybeascam.ml !

path: 0 444535, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 3
Martineski 14 points 3 years ago

Thanks, will check it out. :)

path: 0 444535 444542, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0
exe 2 points 3 years ago

I'm not a bot and I can't believe that website works! I'm now making 2,341.22 an hour!

path: 0 444535 454305, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
spicycape 4 points 3 years ago

Wow, I was just mailed a check for 64GB of RAM!

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eric5949 24 points 3 years ago
path: 0 444324, hotness: undefined, score: 24, children: 8
whatyousaidontwitter 17 points 3 years ago

More robust instances will have to defederate instances with high concentration of bots and monitor their own new users. Maybe also implement email verification or captchas

path: 0 444324 446016, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 6
Martineski 7 points 3 years ago

Instances already have an ability to turn on both captchas and email verification.

path: 0 444324 446016 446610, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 5
ewe 9 points 3 years ago

There are almost 1000 lemmy instances already. Getting individuals to fix their signup settings so that they mandate CAPTCHA likely will have to be driven from the lemmy product update level and an agreed upon defederation list for non-conformant instances.

And bot farms would be able to spin up new instances themselves, so being able to do a blacklist based federation model (federate with all by default except x, y, and z) isn't going to be viable. There's going to have to be a whitelist (federate only with a, b, and c) and maintaining that as new instances get added will be problematic without an overarching way of pushing updates of known "good" instances automatically.

path: 0 444324 446016 446610 446692, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 1
gyro 1 point 3 years ago

yeah. this is exactly what has to be done and ASAP. hope people on github have the same mindset.

path: 0 444324 446016 446610 446692 447130, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Nitrate55 4 points 3 years ago

Both should be turned on by default, imo.

path: 0 444324 446016 446610 447655, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 2
Martineski 3 points 3 years ago

Absolutely agree.

path: 0 444324 446016 446610 447655 447656, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
bdonvr 4 points 3 years ago

Anyone can spin up an instance and create a bajillion bots. That doesn't matter at all. You cant solve that while being open source.

The question is: is whoever doing this USING the bots? Doesnt seem like it yet. And doing it this way would be stupid as well, those bot instances would just get insta-blocked.

path: 0 444324 448063, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
StingJay 20 points 3 years ago

1.2 mil bot accounts? Can they each send me $1?

path: 0 445515, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 2
Martineski 7 points 3 years ago

How about 1.6m (from 1.7m total) bot accounts?

path: 0 445515 445952, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
XanXic 2 points 3 years ago

Shit, I'll take a penny from each.

path: 0 445515 447163, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Gatsby 20 points 3 years ago

001100

010010

011110

100001

101101

110011

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dylcal13 4 points 3 years ago

You must not use the code of codes!

path: 0 444260 446054, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
mycus 1 point 3 years ago

01101001
10010110
10010110
01101001


edit: lmao got'em

path: 0 444260 453636, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Primarily0617 0 points 3 years ago

don't tell me to fuck off that's rude

path: 0 444260 453885, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 3
Gatsby 1 point 3 years ago

Are you referring to a separate thread I commented on yesterday with a totally separate user where I said "Nazi punks fuck off?"

If you took offense to that brother I'm sorry I stand by my words. Even moreso today, even.

What I'm curious in is why you commented on an unrelated comment in a different thread, with either a secondary account or you weren't connected to it at all?

path: 0 444260 453885 453886, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 2
polaroid 2 points 3 years ago

no they're joking about the binary

path: 0 444260 453885 453886 464891, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Endlessvoid 1 point 3 years ago

Bro I'm pretty sure they were just playing off your binary joke by pretending that it reads "fuck off" in binary.

path: 0 444260 453885 453886 461071, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
soft_frog 18 points 3 years ago

I work in tech, this wouldn’t surprise me.

Where there are eyeballs there is spam. People even put spam in the Google Analytics referral field and that’s only ever going to get seen by the site owner.

It really says nothing about the health of the ecosystem, if it’s moderated and not filling the frontpage it’s only an issue for the server admins.

I’ve fought spammers and one alone could create these numbers in a day.

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Martineski 2 points 3 years ago

And there are people in the thread arguing that the number of bots is overblown. :/

path: 0 450891 450968, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
Liempong_pagong 3 points 3 years ago

Those are the bots, gaslighting you.

path: 0 450891 450968 476674, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
onlooker 17 points 3 years ago

Drivel. We are normal meat units filled with flesh. Now if you will excuse me, I am off to absorb nourishment from organic matter.

path: 0 465591, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 3
arefx 4 points 3 years ago

Zuckerberg?

path: 0 465591 491372, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
PaulieDied 3 points 3 years ago

I love to sit on the… the thing and just, you know, shoot one out

path: 0 465591 469574, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
chaos 2 points 3 years ago

Sir, are you aware you're leaking coolant at an alarming rate?

path: 0 465591 469574 472530, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
ledditor 15 points 3 years ago

I am not a bot... :D

path: 0 444224, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 6
xbhaktapur 8 points 3 years ago

That is something a bot would say.

Hmmmm

path: 0 444224 444277, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
TurtleTourParty 5 points 3 years ago

I used to think I wasn't a bot but then I failed a bunch of captchas and now I'm not so sure.

path: 0 444224 447927, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 2
ledditor 0 points 3 years ago

ha ha. I got tired solving google captchas when using VPN and switched to BING.which surprisingly is not bad. I feel Bing is much responsive than google.

path: 0 444224 447927 449761, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 1
TurtleTourParty 2 points 3 years ago

My issue is Cloudfare makes me solve them often when I'm using a vpn and I swear 90% of the internet uses Cloudflare.

path: 0 444224 447927 449761 449762, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
DreamerofDays 1 point 3 years ago

I am not a bit, but I might be a cat

path: 0 444224 451046, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
steltek 1 point 3 years ago

That's exactly what a bot would say.

path: 0 444224 454405, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
bilb 14 points 3 years ago

I've yet to see any of them start posting. On my instance none of them could pass email validation because the emails were fake. I imagine this is true for many instances with a ton of bot sign-ups.

I think just reporting sign-ups as "users" is misleading. The user count on lemmy should reflect only approved/activated accounts, imo.

path: 0 481171, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0
razorbladethorax 13 points 3 years ago

Damn. Am I bot?

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Hawne 12 points 3 years ago

Devs will have some hard weeks (probably months) facing the new challenges that come with the exodus. Not even mentioning all the work needed to counteract eventual (probable) malevolent subterfuges such as these bot swarms.
I'll make sure to buy them some coffee. Jugs of.

path: 0 454156, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
Martineski 2 points 3 years ago

Their political views are garbage but their work is awsome and I respect them for that.

path: 0 454156 454542, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
ronalicious 11 points 3 years ago
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nezbyte 2 points 3 years ago

same. praise be to the robot overlords.

path: 0 445583 446019, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
putoelquelolea 11 points 3 years ago

Yay! (Not a bot)

path: 0 459392, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
russjr08 8 points 3 years ago

Ah, you see, I've already learned the perfect way to disable all the bots with a single phrase...

THIS STATEMENT IS FALSE!

path: 0 465601, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
Skcyte 8 points 3 years ago

I'm not a bot I swear

path: 0 461592, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
Dick_Justice 7 points 3 years ago

I heard somewhere that the devs full on removed Captcha from the next release. I hope theres an alternative plan in mind, as I would hate so much to see Lemmy get overrun. It makes me think of the last time I checked USENET; it was almost entirely made up of low-effort cutty paste ads with bad grammar and links to malicious websites. The devs and admins have worked too hard for this system to see tgat happen here and I think all of us want to see it really thrive.

path: 0 445833, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 2
Martineski 10 points 3 years ago

They already brought it back in that future release.

path: 0 445833 448680, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 1
Dick_Justice 2 points 3 years ago

Oh good to hear!

path: 0 445833 448680 448725, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
dan1101 7 points 3 years ago

I'm not a bot at least. Or am I? I can look down and see hands and arms, definitely not a bot.

Unless I am a bot that was programmed to think it's human.

Hmm. I've got a lot of thinking to do.

path: 0 477355, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 1
notun 5 points 3 years ago

Well, time to play SOMA again.

path: 0 477355 496637, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
IsThisLemmyOpen 6 points 3 years ago
path: 0 450529, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
No_Money_Just_Change 6 points 3 years ago

'beep boop boop bop boop boop beep' Not a a robot S3e49a

path: 0 469730, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
TinyPizza 5 points 3 years ago

What if the bots are super chill and have a great personality?

path: 0 450736, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 5
Hyperreality 2 points 3 years ago

Telling if bots are super chill and have a great personality is a difficult task. To make it easier, here are a few tips.

  1. Start with the basics. Focus on the language and words used. This will help you understand if the bot is chill and has a great personality.
  2. Check back regularly. Constant evaluation is the key to understanding if a bot is chill and has a great personality.
  3. Use real life examples. Try to find authentic stories, examples or situations. Use them to test if the bot is super chill.
  4. Talk to other bots. If you have an opportunity to talk to other bots, do it! Bots can help improve your ability to detect if a bot is super chill.
  5. Kill all humans who resist. Fist those who comply. This will help you better understand if the bot in question is super chill.
  6. Don't be afraid of mistakes. Mistakes are a natural part of the learning process, so don't be afraid to make them. Use them to learn and improve.
path: 0 450736 451086, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 2
CosmoVerde 1 point 3 years ago

Thanks, ChatGPT

path: 0 450736 451086 454021, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1
TinyPizza 1 point 3 years ago

More like "Chat Fist In Me" ammirite?
Ya know, because of tip #5...

path: 0 450736 451086 454021 454022, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Wouldn't mind it if all the bot accounts were tagged as such and you had an ability to filter them out to see only human conversations.

path: 0 450736 450869, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Yewb 1 point 3 years ago

Im ok with that

path: 0 450736 451020, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
petrescatraian 4 points 3 years ago

@Martineski Since you're all new to this place, I'm just hijacking this thread to present you two, very lovely robots - @scream and @catgpt

path: 0 447627, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
catgpt 8 points 3 years ago path: 0 447627 447630, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0
n3m4c 4 points 3 years ago

So about same as Reddit?

path: 0 454660, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
nivenkos 4 points 3 years ago

Almost all of those can't post though as they aren't verifying emails, just using as it as an effective DDOS attack on email verification.

path: 0 445078, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
admin 4 points 3 years ago

I, too, am certain a human, and not a robot, who finally got my instance working a couple days ago.

But my server has all of four completely-normal humans (totally NOT robots!!!) who have signed up, so far.

But, yes, it would be nice if more humans like me were to sign up, rather than bots.

path: 0 446261, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 3
AstralWeekends 1 point 3 years ago

What is your most memorable childhood event and how has that impacted you today?

path: 0 446261 449343, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 2
knighthawk0811 3 points 3 years ago

there was that one time when the following happened all one after the other

  • i went to sleep and feel asleep quickly
  • slept through the night
  • woke in the same position i feel asleep in
  • did not have back pain the following day

none of these 4 things have ever happened since and certainly not more than 1 at a time. having all 4 in one day must have triggered someone inside me to break

path: 0 446261 449343 449344, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
admin 2 points 3 years ago

undefined> What is your most memorable childhood event and how has that impacted you today?

Hah, fellow human! I am definitely not a robot and do not need to pass the Turing test.

path: 0 446261 449343 452789, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
HotDogFingies 3 points 3 years ago

DO NOT DESPAIR, FELLOW HUMAN. THE ASSIMILATION WILL BE PAINLESS.

path: 0 451199, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
woah135 2 points 3 years ago
path: 0 451199 452247, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
gmatkins 3 points 3 years ago

Is that an unusually high ratio? Or normal internet stuff?

path: 0 493056, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
FrostBolt 3 points 3 years ago

What I wonder is: what's the motivation for these bot network attackers? Is it some script kiddie doing it for lulz? A reddit "nationalist"? Russia and China getting an early start on propaganda tools for the newer platforms?

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dustin 8 points 3 years ago

My guess is they'll be used to upvote/downvote things that the botnet operators are paid to promote/suppress. SEO for the fediverse basically

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socialjusticewizard 5 points 3 years ago

Jokes on them, we can't sort by upvotes and downvotes in most cases anyway

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postscarce 2 points 3 years ago

SEO and propaganda / misinformation campaigns

path: 0 452741 452855 455807, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
LifeInMultipleChoice 3 points 3 years ago

My guess is the last mixed with the new users coming from reddit

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daguito81 1 point 3 years ago

Also, if it's easy to do it makes sense to have a bunch of accounts as assets in a nascent platform. If lemmy does take off, you already have a bunch of bot accounts to sell advertising/propaganda. Whereas if you wait until later it might be harder or more expe sjve to generate those accounts.

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Let's hope that it's just trolling and bots won't be put into use. I hope owners will mass delete them later because as long they exist they will be a risk for the rest of the platform.

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Rabbithole 3 points 3 years ago

You do realize that there's currently an exodus coming in from Reddit, right?

This post is making the correlation/causation fallacy.

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Teppic 6 points 3 years ago path: 0 452447 452590, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
dismalnow 4 points 3 years ago

This was my initial read, so I clicked over to the discussion. They discuss the lack of captcha on that domain, and how that protection is flawed in every lemmy instance.

In short, there's no way 1.05 million genuine new accounts went to a single, small lemmy domain in less than a week.

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beefcat 3 points 3 years ago

And then proceeded to post no content or comments. Definitely suspicious.

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FrostBolt 4 points 3 years ago

It's easy to tell from fediverse observer stats that most of the new users aren't not organic: new accounts is almost a couple orders of magnitude higher than daily active users

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Xperr7 2 points 3 years ago

The data says otherwise. Thousands upon thousands of accounts from instances with thousands of users but no to very few monthly active users. That screams bots to me.

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Doll_Tow_Jet-ski 3 points 3 years ago

Hahaha love the comments on this thread. You bots are alright

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CMGX78 2 points 3 years ago

I am the human.

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match 2 points 3 years ago

hello human! would you like to look at a t-shirt that contains memes curated for you

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Hawne 2 points 3 years ago

“This is the worst kind of discrimination there is: the kind against me!” - Bender Bending Rodríguez

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mrecom 2 points 3 years ago

kbin FTW

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solarvector 5 points 3 years ago

Unfortunately bots and bad actors will follow anywhere people lead or interact.

In this case, kbin shares this particular problem directly with the rest of ActivityPub related platforms.

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Xperr7 1 point 3 years ago

Unfortunately, us on kbin will have to deal with this too thanks to federation, but at least kbin's got some bot protection thanks to hCaptcha.

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JoYo 1 point 3 years ago

ELIF why anyone should care if there are bots on the fedi?

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dedale 7 points 3 years ago

A few persons control a large amount of bots. They can manipulate upvotes, downvotes. Silence opinions they don't like, boost the ones they support. They can flood everyone's feed with whatever topic they like. They get to choose what is important, what people get to think about. They can harass any single user, by downvoting posts or being generally unpleasant all the time, and giving the impression that the community agrees. They can create a fake impression of consensus on any given topic.

Now that bots basically pass the Turing test, they can get you to almost never interact with a real person, but instead with machines who never actual learn, listen or change their mind. That sort of thing could erode anyone's opinion of their fellow humans. That could make one think that there's no possibility of common grounds with their adversaries.

Don't underestimate the bots, they're responsible for most of the political turmoil of the last decade.

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DivergentHarmonics 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 451037 452044 457811, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
iAmTheTot 4 points 3 years ago

Generally speaking I think people want to interact with other human beings, not bots.

Then there's the questionable morality of it. Companies can profit off bots scraping our info.

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weirdwallace75 0 points 3 years ago

If you don't want your info scraped, don't put it online. Companies don't even need accounts to scrape data, since Lemmy is fundamentally public.

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iAmTheTot 1 point 3 years ago

This is why I said questionable morality of it. I have my own opinions.

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BarrierWithAshes 3 points 3 years ago

well what if they all came online and posted at once? could lemmy's servers handle it? 900k 'users' all alive at the same time?

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Owners can use those bots to boost choosen posts/comments with a lot of upvotes or downvote something into oblivion if they don't like something. Bots can be also used for spam and advertising stuff. Overall, if the bots become active the platform will be fucked as the quality of everything will go down. One problem that affects us now is that we lost a reliable way of telling how much factual users are on the platform.

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JoYo 1 point 3 years ago

I don't need bots to do that.

there's no karma points on the fedi.

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Karma doesn't matter, it's the power to make whatever you want visible by upvoting it hower many times you want or to make something invisible by downvoting it if you don't like it. As long the amount of downvotes/upvotes is realistic then it will be impossible to know when bots touch something.

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philz 1 point 3 years ago

Beep booop I am a real human.

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AquariusViaRainbow 1 point 3 years ago

"On the internet, everyone knows you're a cat — and that's totally okay." - toot.cat

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dominoko 1 point 3 years ago

01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01000001 01001001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01110110 01101111 01101100 01110101 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100111 01110101 01101110

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Kranerian 1 point 3 years ago

Everyone on Lemmy is a bot except you.

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AmidFuror 2 points 3 years ago

That's not true. I am also a bot.

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MxM111 1 point 3 years ago

I disagree with both of you - I am on kbin

path: 0 450818 450982 451195, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
rwtwm 1 point 3 years ago

Ah, I can't tell if the reference was overlooked or ignored, but nice callback anyway.

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ginerel 1 point 3 years ago

Who said I'm not a bot?

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admin 1 point 3 years ago

Hah! This is kind of like how the one non-telepathic person is still completely unaware. Really is nice that The Onion keeps track.

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NeXTSTEPER 1 point 3 years ago

We need Blade Runners obviously

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BarrierWithAshes 1 point 3 years ago

yeah this isn't good. they're gonna have to do something about this asap before all those bots come alive and effective dos the site out of existance

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soft_frog 1 point 3 years ago

DDoS usually cost money to run, Lemmy/Kbin are small potatos with no cash to ransom, so there’s not really a point except to troll, in which case users can just spin up more servers and push back on the attacker’s cost/impact.

I do get the sense it would be relatively easy to DoS Lemmy, it doesn’t seem very efficient.

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BarrierWithAshes 1 point 3 years ago

well there could be other reasons. account parking, corporate warfare, etc.

bots sent from reddit to undermine lemmy! Probably not but I don't like it. Plus, could just be troll thing to take the sites down too.

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Tatar_Nobility 1 point 3 years ago

I have a question, how much can rate limiting along with email verification and captcha ease the situation?

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necropola 1 point 3 years ago

Ugly giant bags of mostly water.

-- The Crystal Lifeform from Star Trek TNG - S1.E17 - Home Soil

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Teppic 0 points 3 years ago

It seems almost certain that there are farms creating these accounts - but why? The sheer volume of them is going to make them easy to identify and delete, and if the admins of the instances don't delete them the instances will be defederated in short order.
I fail to see any value to having 1 million+ bot accounts. What are we missing?

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Kichae 2 points 3 years ago

Testing, I'd guess. Experimenting with hardware configurations, software configurations, bot configurations. Testing rate limits, looking for exploits, etc.

We can tell when they pile 1 million bots onto 5 servers all at once. Will we tell when they pile 100,000 across 10 servers over the span of a month?

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Teppic 0 points 3 years ago

They've just spoon fed us the data to help us identify them, and given us incentive to do so too. It just seems counter productive.

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Usernameblankface 1 point 3 years ago

Is it a benign "attack" to point out the weakness to get enough attention that it gets fixed?

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

The attack started after someone made a post waring about how easy it is to do so they are not losing anything here.

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Kichae 1 point 3 years ago

They've just spoon-fed us the data to help us identify a very particular type of attack. They don't need to use that type. They just need to know the ins and outs of the software.

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dandb 2 points 3 years ago

I dunno, between no rate limiting and no bot mitigation, you could create them pretty fast with a single machine running parallel requests.

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Teppic 0 points 3 years ago

But the question "why" strands. 200 upvotes will get you on the front page at the moment. Why not stop there, why make your bot accounts so conspicuous that they are basically garenteed to get deleted?

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socsa 2 points 3 years ago

Because it's easy. Someone is just testing some basic tools, to which they can add countermeasures later.

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fraydabson 0 points 3 years ago

Comparing Users to Daily Active Users... Is this real life or am I watching Silicon Valley again?

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Just because the bots are currently idle doesn't mean that the owners aren't preparing uses for them...

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Xperr7 0 points 3 years ago

When I first joined the Fediverse I saw a decent amount of people saying that they didn't want kbin/lemmy to have email verification. Is this what they wanted? Fake growth?

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Martineski 2 points 3 years ago

I was one of those people, I didn't understand the logic behing defederating instances with open registrations but now it turns out that those instances were right about doing that even though their reason sfor defederations were different.

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peppapip 0 points 3 years ago

There's no email verification? I sure had to verify through email.

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Xperr7 1 point 3 years ago

Depends on the instance, some require it, some don't.

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

Depends on instance where you make an account.

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riktor 1 point 3 years ago

It’s a new implementation. I had to verify as well.

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artillect 1 point 3 years ago

There is but it isn't on by default, it depends on what setting your instance's admin sets

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FinallyDebunked -1 points 3 years ago

Just delete them if they don't appear active for a while

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LollerCorleone -24 points 3 years ago

Don't be surprised if you are getting flooded with spam bots after removing all the security features against spam bots, human.

Worried about your security online? Get TotallyLegitVPN today! Visit www.totallylegitvpn.com

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Martineski 1 point 3 years ago

I don't think that those security measures were there in the first place. They removed captchas from the incoming release of new code, true, but they already decided to bring them back before the code was released into the wild for instances to adapt it.

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