Oh yeah? But is their customer service also an essential blend of AI and dog shit?
Checkmate, europoors.
Perfectly cloning the Microsoft Teams experience
10 days ago by cm0002 to c/programmer_humor
raspberriesareyummy 61 points 10 days ago
*europeons was so close and yet you missed the mark.
raspberriesareyummy 18 points 10 days ago
Wasn't thinking that, I just think Europeons is the far superior pun. Speaking as a Europeon, of course.
KeithD 12 points 9 days ago
It's far superior, but it may need a hyphen. Otherwise most USians won't recognise the pun and will just think that's how Euro-peons spell it. Which is only hilarious until the new spelling is an official US variant.
NoneOfUrBusiness 6 points 10 days ago
Tell that to American conservatives. Can't parody stupidity smartly.
AzuraTheSpellkissed 128 points 10 days ago
Okay, hear me out: what if you click on a contact in your contact list and start typing a message, but instead of writing in the message field, it instead focused a random contact in your contract list whose name starts with the last letter you typed. Anyone? People love this feature, right?
I'm not too convinced FLOSS devs are mentally flexible enough to implement all of the glory of MS Teams.
Blackmist 55 points 10 days ago
I love the feature where I paste something into an email, and then it stops me typing by popping up a useless menu.
My second favourite is the one where you're typing, and suddenly it starts treating all your keypresses as shortcuts and deleting things. I love that.
And don't even get me started on Outlook search. I can no longer find any emails, even by typing in the things that were on them.
But hey, at least an admin can fuck it all up from one place!
Goodeye8 32 points 10 days ago
What? Teams updates its UI so often it feels like with every update they move buttons around just to fuck with the user. Even outlook has been updated to a somehow even shittier UI. If I had a choice I'd choose the UI from the 1000000 times slower era because at least it was functional.
WhyJiffie 4 points 9 days ago
that's not even true. they are trying to follow the latest tech giant design trends making everything with huge gaps, rounded corners and huge memory usage, and the ui lagging more than anything 20 years ago
ThatGuy46475 53 points 10 days ago
My favorite feature is when there is a message in a chat you are already looking at and you have to click out of it and back in before the notification will go away
trashman 8 points 9 days ago
You're underselling it! Sure, what you discribe would be a nice feature, but what makes it truly great is the combination with a slow and unresponsive UI. It's thought provoking genius!
Did it register the click or do I have to try again? Maybe I should meditate to fully harvest the value of this 0.5s Zen moment, because it also might just take much longer this time? Does a tree fall, when there is no one to witness it? Does a click matter if it is inside Teams?
adhocfungus 7 points 10 days ago
I thought that was just me! My second favorite feature is that a full 75% of my notifications in a day are Facilitator bot messages, which I need to repeatedly click out of and into to clear.
Buddahriffic 1 point 9 days ago
Or if someone reacts to your message while you're still in that chat, you need to go to a completely separate notification feed to clear that one (though maybe they fixed that one... Or maybe I just automatically ignore that other feed because it only ever has noise).
Jesus_666 35 points 10 days ago
How about the feature where you get a notification that someone said something in a group chat but if you click on the notification it opens the private chat with that person instead?
Or the one where you enable recording a meeting and only after the meeting does it tell you that it couldn't actually save anything to OneDrive so there's no recording? That's some advanced UX engineering right there.
Or the one where it hides less used "applications" and decides that the only ones it should hide are the chat and the calendar. Not everyone can come up with that.
Or how it shows a banner telling you to update even if your client is company-managed and especially if you're using their web client.
FLOSS can't hope to compete at that level.
Bytemeister 6 points 9 days ago
We could spend the rest of our lives trying to make a search function less useful than what Microsoft puts in every single one of their apps. Fucking up a search bar is the new fucking up an instant messenger.
AzuraTheSpellkissed 4 points 9 days ago
Tbf, the MS Team's search hasn't failed me yet. Unlike outlook which wouldn't find an email when searching for the exact subject line, even while I have the email open in another window just to be sure I'm not hallucinating how bad the search is.
esc 21 points 10 days ago
What about freezing and locking the whole system ~45 minutes in a meeting every time? Or hear me out, lets display the content of the window in the centered rectangle that takes 15-20% of window and it can be resized down but not up?
elvith 15 points 10 days ago
For me: When using the teams app on my work laptop, something prevents the clock multiplier in my processor from working correctly - it's locked to 600-800MHz (according to the performance tab in the Taskmanager) and everything is very sluggish. As soon as I exit the meeting, it will jump back up to several GHz as it should...
Buddahriffic 2 points 9 days ago
Or sometimes the text bar just randomly loses focus and for whatever reason doesn't default to getting focus when you type anything. I'd bet money this "feature" was the result of someone with more power than intelligence accidentally sending something embarassing because they didn't realize teams had focus. Hell, I bet a good portion of Microsoft's dumbshit behavious are the result of incompetent people getting power over how something behaves and basically boomerizing it (making it work in a specific and weird way that only makes sense to them).
AzuraTheSpellkissed 1 point 9 days ago
Maybe Microsoft devs also sometimes lose focus
Buddahriffic 1 point 9 days ago
Yeah, there's that angle also. Like how you can start phoning it in when you have a shitty manager that kills your passion. I have a feeling that that is part of the overall corporate culture at MS rather than just the case for people unlucky with which manager they ended up with.
Assuming you meant that "focus" as a pun that refers to their ability to focus on their work to the point of doing it well.
If you meant that it might have been some rogue developer that snuck in that change instead of a rogue manager, yeah, that's also possible.
green_red_black 73 points 10 days ago
meh, as I understand the alt is an open source project so it maybe terrible but it's a terrible that can be pressured to fix
red_tomato -5 points 10 days ago
Nah, itβs probably going to be an abandoned project with 10+ merge requests in line with no one to review them - if it isnβt already.
TheTechnician27 35 points 10 days ago
Brother, the article is talking about Element Pro.
damniticant 18 points 10 days ago
My friends all go on and on about how much element sucks and yet I have zero problems with it, itβs confounding to me
Imgonnatrythis 65 points 10 days ago
I'm really not sure if absolute shit is a notch above or below Teams.
Jankatarch 49 points 10 days ago
Teams is negative.
Shit is negative.
Absolute shit is positive.
Therefore absolute shit > teams.
Qed.
Viking_Hippie 13 points 10 days ago
Absolute shit is positive.
THE absolute shit would be positive. Absolute shit is negative. Absolutely.
KeithD 21 points 9 days ago
Absolute value, including of a negative number, is always positive.
Viking_Hippie 3 points 9 days ago
PRETTY sure that the people evaluating a Teams alternative aren't doing so using mathematical terms π
SaveTheTuaHawk 56 points 10 days ago
Hey kids, try this neat trick:
during a Teams meeting, mention a very esoteric product 2-3X .
Within a week, someone will email you an offer to buy that product.
Viking_Hippie 8 points 10 days ago
Unfortunately, LinkedIn patched that infinite money glitch in the latest Business Douchecanoe firmware update.
onlinepersona 29 points 9 days ago
Which project is it?
rumba 19 points 9 days ago
It's hard to get people to move from what they know and use to something else. If you moved them to Google, they'd say it's shit. Same for Zoom. They all do some stuff better than others.
Element is perfectly servicable. They're using Element Pro which is billing itself as built for government. The first problem is they called it pro, which sets expectations higher than they should be. It's not going to make them go WOW this is so much better at first glance.
Trying to onboard a gigantic number of people is going to be difficult for a system that doesn't already have a gigantic number of people on it. I can only imagine how rough the system is at the moment, but it'll work out.
LodeMike 8 points 9 days ago
Ehhhh... There's so many issues with it. It is equivalent to if Microsoft Teams was a Matrix application. The problem is that the UI is so clunky, buggy, and in general not robust enough compared to other matrix applications. Other matrix applications just don't have things implemented and also feel the need to copy Element's terrible designs.
abc 1 point 8 days ago
I'm able to use it also, perhaps due to 40 years of computing experience, but .... for people used to something like Slack, probably not that great.
I keep wishing that somebody would replace Matrix with something we don't have to be so embarrased about.
MonkeMischief 2 points 7 days ago
So... maybe if a major government is paying for it, it'll improve much faster? Here's to wishful thinking.
onlinepersona 19 points 9 days ago
I found element quite alright compared to teams, honestly. I wish the EU actually invested money in matrix to make it better instead of just using the base and building a bunch of stuff on top of it.
diaphragmwp 12 points 9 days ago
Most accurate description of Element I've ever heard to be honest. It's literally just Discord, with all of it's bloat, but with a protocol that wants to have "security" bolted on. And all of the security related dialogs have race conditions in them. Actually, not just in Element, all clients, even nheko and fluffychat, have race conditions in the fucking security dialogs. All of my devices are just unverified now, I just gave up.
XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.
Tox supermacy! Though the main and only good Android client got archived. But like, whatever. Fuck phones anyway.
WhyJiffie 6 points 9 days ago
what security dialogs? and what race conditions? do you know what that means, or are you just throwing around words?
if you mean the "verify your new device" dialog, yeah, it has a problem. it won't appear most of the time on clients that were not open when you sent the verification request from the new device. I don't know why, and this is not comfortable, but then I can start verification from a device I already have, and it will work. or I can also just fill in the password from my password manager, which you surely have too.
but I haven't seen other problems with it recently.
XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.
which does not even have a bolted on security that way.
Though the main and only good Android client got archived.
calling element classic good is a bit of a stretch. it was very slow.
diaphragmwp 1 point 9 days ago
if you mean the "verify your new device" dialog
That series of dialogs and pretty much everything else, including "verified devices" menu. Also, apart from race conditions it's often just desync. Like, right now for me, nheko and Element say everything is unverified but fluffychat says everything including itself is verified.
Not Element Classic, I meant aTox (Tox for Android). It still functions, though.
Valmond 5 points 9 days ago
Yeah but XMPP sounds so techy you know... /s
I bet that if someone scraped together the bare minimum and found a catchy name it'd be the winner easily.
Et-tu-Brutus would slay IMO.
diaphragmwp 4 points 9 days ago
https://astrachat.com/ paid XMPP. It claims the US army, apart from a few other government entities around the world, use it. I find this funny because this implies someone integrated Grok into XMPP.
Also, the old name for XMPP is Jabber. That sounds less techy, you know.
WhyJiffie 3 points 9 days ago
Yeah but XMPP sounds so techy you know... /s
the trick is to not mention XMPP to the end users. if they dig deep in the app settings they can find it out, but otherwise all that end users need to know is just, download the app named conversations, and use this domain and username. the domain could likely be hidden from them by deep linking, and sending the link in a company email. then they just need to log in as anywhere else.
sexy_peach 3 points 9 days ago
I bet that if someone scraped together the bare minimum and found a catchy name it'd be the winner easily.
Snikket.org
ArcaneSlime 4 points 9 days ago
Yeah I gave up on Element/Matrix too, for other reasons.
First of all the clients don't work for shit and every update breaks something IME, got tired of that. Also for all of my normie friends and family it was "too hard" to use, I disagree, but regardless what good is a chat app if I have nobody to use it with? Further, the one friend I did convince to join also joined the public Ras Pi room, and some dickhead posted CP in it, he saw, and then I had to explain "no, this isn't a 'pedo app,' that is spam and they get banned," and I'm gonna be real I don't want to have to do that again and I can't in good faith recommend my mother use a goddamn app that very possibly could spam her with CP.
So, I moved to Delta Chat. Fixes all those problems, no complaints. Easy to use, easy onboarding, no discoverability, just chats.
exdor 3 points 9 days ago
Tox did their own insecure crypto and got roasted by the Wireguard dev, now they are apparently rewriting it.
I agree that Matrix is complex but personally never had issues with key verification. Just try to restart it, maybe on the other device?
diaphragmwp -2 points 9 days ago
Tox did their own insecure crypto and got roasted by the Wireguard dev
Everyone does crypto in their own way and roasts each other. On a quantum physical mathematical psychological level unidentified flying object Yugoslavia something something. I only really believe stuff in relation to exploits when there's a demo.
protogen420 -1 points 9 days ago
element is much lighter weight, my god wgat fuck are you even dreaming up about, discord is fucking unresponsive and horrible to use, I do agree that the device verificstion still barely works sometimes, and you can also just use a different a client, as far as web clients go cinny is really good honestly, cinny is fast and responsive it even feels almost native, which compared to garbagecord is a night and day difference in usability beyond DOING ALL OF THIS WHILE USING LESS RESOURCES, for android Schildichat Next is my choice
diaphragmwp 4 points 9 days ago
element is much lighter weight
Here, the webapps are measured via the very scientific method of Firefox about:processes, doesn't even account Firefox itself which is like 760 megs (decimal MB or MiB? I am not sure) if I were to believe it.
On amd64, loonix with glibc and all that crap, zero memory pressure (assuming I am reading "shared" correctly in htop which I assume to be libraries like glibc and glib):
- Discord: starts at 800 megs, garbage collects down to 704 to 710-ish (overburned CD size?); turning on/off equicord doesn't affect it much
- Element: 367 mystery units after clicking around for a while, 341 unfocused
- Nheko: 362 MiB, 201MiB shared (probably with Firefox, can't close cuz I am typing here rn)
- Dino: 334MiB, 116 shared (probably with Firefox)
- Mumble (random server with a long text greeting and nobody in voice): 169MiB, 130MiB shared.
- random forum with a bunch of emotes and table decorations (for comparison sake): 69 meters (NICE)
- qwebirc (1 server): 61 megs
- Weechat (6 servers): 65392 bytes, out of which 33396 shared (with system daemons I am guessing).
- Toxic: 44648 bytes, out of which 0 are shared. Plus ~90000 for Alacritty (65160 shared when multiple).
lmao
HerbGrower 4 points 8 days ago
Ohh getting more people using matrix could be nice
UnLocoPoco 3 points 9 days ago path: 0 26138564 26138672 26144440, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 6
musubibreakfast 10 points 9 days ago
Correct but it requires an anal probe to function correctly. Plus the administrator needs to wear nipple clamps, nobody knows why it was programmed that way.
UnLocoPoco 3 points 9 days ago path: 0 26138564 26138672 26144440 26145172 26148099, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
SleeplessCityLights 2 points 8 days ago
I honestly might prefer Teams over Element, and I have a Matrix server. Element is dogshit, it is so frustrating to admin. At least Teams gives you a full featured pile of shit.
AnyOldName3 15 points 10 days ago
Matrix is fine with an alternative client. I use Commet, and it'd pretty much serve as a total replacement for Discord for me if not for the fact that nearly none of the communities I'm in are bridged there.
raspberriesareyummy 1 point 10 days ago
I like element but it's not nearly as lightweight and user-friendly as I would like it to be.
carrylex 1 point 9 days ago
I assume we talk about the desktop client here.
lightweight
my brother in Christ, Discord and Teams both need like 2x the RAM so don't talk to me about that.
user-friendly
Idk left side has contacts and groups, right side chat. What exactly is not user-friendly there?
raspberriesareyummy 2 points 9 days ago
my brother in Christ, Discord and Teams both need like 2x the RAM so donβt talk to me about that.
I don't compare a hot-dog to a pile of dog poo and say "it's good food".
Idk left side has contacts and groups, right side chat. What exactly is not user-friendly there?
- slow to load up
- long sync times
- high battery drain for mobile users
- room concept, as opposed to contact chats
- electron app sucks donkeyballs - wastes lots of screen space where no chat is displayed
- options way too hard to find at times (like how to add existing rooms to a space)
- no online/offline status of contacts
- trust model with device verification is unintuitive for non-techie users (admitted this one has improved with the emojis years ago and with cross-device certification)
I could probably find a bunch of more reasons if I thought longer about it. These are all issues that don't keep me from using the app, but they are severe enough that I can't convince non-techie friends to use element as a messenger. For matrix, there are superior messengers for sure, albeit those are then limited in functionality.
SleeplessCityLights 1 point 8 days ago
Synapse server is not bad for Matrix, the stack for voice, video, and auth is simple. How does XMPP work?
SleeplessCityLights 1 point 7 days ago
Does the protocol use a single server application and single client application? Is it Federated and I can use my home sever account on all instances?
AzuraTheSpellkissed 0 points 10 days ago
Doesn't sound like a technical issue, but a social one
TrickDacy 5 points 10 days ago
There are also technical issues. I tried to use Matrix Element with my partner a couple years ago and it stopped working multiple times and we gave up on it. Even when it "worked" half the time notifications didn't.
ArcaneSlime 1 point 9 days ago
I tried element X, it also stopped working on me like element regular did, and like this other poster complained about.
My friends also bailed on it because it wasn't working (as did I) and I'm not about to say "no guys some random lemmy user says it's good now." They'll reply "what the fuck is lemmy and why switch back from Delta Chat while it's working so well?"
Also there's NO way I'll be able to convince the one who saw the CP spam in the Raspberry Pi room to go back, and there's no way I'm gonna recommend to my parents and shit that they use a chat app that very likely could spam them with it (not likely they'd find the public rooms, still not taking the chance.) I don't really need to be known as "the guy recommending the CP app," personally.
And I had to basically set it up for every contact I was able to convince, meanwhile when we switched to Delta Chat I just sent the invite link and they made accts and bam, no problem, and now the recent update made that even easier because instead of just defaulting to nine.testrun.org it picks a few relays at random, so now I don't even have to set up multi-relay for them (aside from the contacts I got on before this update) next time I see them in person.
BuckFutter 14 points 10 days ago
I believe the correct term is βshiteβ, to be spoken with a thick accent lol
myyass 9 points 9 days ago
Honestly I don't know why the majority don't just use something like teamspeak. I still use 3 point something version and it still works. Do I really need to see you on my screen? Like does that add anything or are we pretending to be futuristic?
Tja 12 points 9 days ago
I spend half my day in meetings with colleagues, partners and clients and it adds a lot.
If the other person is speaking in a language where you are not native / fluent, seeing their mouth helps. I'm experimenting with AI-based live transcription (eww, AI, slop, I get it) but it only works real time with English at the moment.
If you are explaining something you can see if they are following, if they are skeptical about certain claims, etc. Many cultures are very conflict-averse and won't challenge you directly, or even ask for clarification.
And for me personally it helps me remember the person much better, and remember what we talked about last time when I see the face again.
I'd argue that is the opposite of futuristic, it helps our primitive brains work as they are used to.
WhyJiffie 5 points 9 days ago
I'm experimenting with AI-based live transcription (eww, AI, slop, I get it) but it only works real time with English at the moment.
the real problem there is not AI slop, but if you are basically uploading their voice to a company. if you are doing it locally, I would say fine. LLMs are better (not flawless) with translation than facts.
Tja 4 points 9 days ago
It runs locally on my laptop, no upload anywhere, no recording either. I would be fired in an instant otherwise.
EDIT: It's a forked version of this project, in case anyone is interested: https://github.com/pasrom/meeting-transcriber
myyass 2 points 9 days ago
I guess if it helps you.
"Many cultures are very conflict-averse and wonβt challenge you directly, or even ask for clarification."
I actually get this, especially if they have to answer to you. I always thought this was dumb, like it doesn't make me any different than any other person just because I'm in meetings with high ranking officials. The whole office was scared of me when I got the job. And I'm like ... is it because I'm walking around with a cane and looking like Dr House?
myyass 1 point 9 days ago
I guess? Okay this is kind of a mean take on it, from my experience, with having managed a company of over 300--which is tiny, if you would stfu and fill out your sheet and send me an email, I would prefer that. I already did your background check and dive.
I know this isn't a very "professional" take but that's how it's always been for me. The amount of parties and alcohol is really the surprising part.
onlinepersona 3 points 9 days ago
If they were gaming at work, maybe teamspeak would make sense.
myyass 3 points 9 days ago
I think the voice codecs work really well on teamspeak. Discord is a really heavy mess. Teams is... no thank you.
The angle I was focusing on is something that's light and can be used anywhere.
But come on... the irony... Teams vs Team Speak?
onlinepersona 2 points 9 days ago
Voice calls aren't the issue. Teams isn't just for calling
programmer_humor
@programming.dev
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Welcome to Programmer Humor!
This is a place where you can post jokes, memes, humor, etc. related to programming!
For sharing awful code theres also Programming Horror.
Rules
- Keep content in english
- No advertisements
- Posts must be related to programming or programmer topics
- If the mod doesn't find it funny, you're banned. Ha-ha!... For real: do not use the community for "statements". There are other places for such content. Keep it chill and funny.
go to feed...
programmer_humor
@programming.dev
33571
2550
7101
Welcome to Programmer Humor!
This is a place where you can post jokes, memes, humor, etc. related to programming!
For sharing awful code theres also Programming Horror.
Rules
- Keep content in english
- No advertisements
- Posts must be related to programming or programmer topics
- If the mod doesn't find it funny, you're banned. Ha-ha!... For real: do not use the community for "statements". There are other places for such content. Keep it chill and funny.
go to feed...
"You said you needed it compatible with Teams."
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