Women and LGBTQ+ people take up guns after Trump’s win: ‘We need to protect ourselves’
2 years ago by Sine_Fine_Belli to c/news
The second amendment was not made for personal protection
It was also opposed by George Washington on the argument that "A bunch of farmers with guns will never defeat a trained army." He basically did exactly that, but it took the support of one of the world's largest super powers at the time in order to do it - France.
Not to say don't arm yourself. I plan on doing exactly that myself. But don't expect to be overthrowing the dictatorship to come. There are no resistance groups being armed by the EU here.
Washington was talking about the militias that were present in the early parts of the war that were under trained and undisciplined. The red coats took them easily and they fled often so the continental congress started the continental army lead by Washington, which was a trained and disciplined army in the style of European standing armies, which was able to take on and even defeat the British occasionally.
After the war the ruling elite still had this idealized vision of citizen militias protecting the liberty of white man and saw it as a less tyrannical, and cheaper model then the European professional standing army and made the second amendment to encourage it. Washington was saying that that system failed and will never work and that we should have a trained army ready to take on European powers if they come back.
Now we have the worst of both worlds, a massive army that gobbles up tax dollars and a bunch of untrained citizens with guns who barely understand what a militia is much less can protect the liberty of the nation.
Yeah, pretty much what I was getting at. We live in a country where everybody believes themselves to be the hero in their own Rambo style action movie.
There are no resistance groups being armed by the EU here.
Not yet.
I'd like it if indigenous Amazonians had better tools than bows to defend against loggers, ranchers, miners and various land grabbers. And a few SAMs to take care of those chemical airborne attacks.
Getting another superpower to arm Americans is like putting a hat on a hat
that was before tanks and instant communication. the army would have been less organized and maybe you could have a chance against the government, especially as a militia. today you don't.
you do have a chance against a bunch of fuckwads who threaten you because the party they voted for won and the think they can rape freely now. just not the government.
How'd Afghanistan turn out?
The last three wars have been pretty recent, and haven’t not gone well against a foe no where near or equal. Not so much as a pyric victory, but an eventual unwillingness to keep wasting time and money and lives, and we just left. What do you call it when you just leave a war failing all your objectives and handing over territory to the enemy?
I'm not saying you are wrong, but the biggest difference, and one that actually matters, is that there was a very clear us vs. them defined and easily spotted. In Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan we were fighting against people that blended in and weren't being actively turned on by their neighbors. Here, you can bet every dickish Dick that voted red would happily report on the neighbors that they even have an iota of suspicion about resisting the orange cunt.
I mean the Supreme Court can say what they like. But their power is derived by the people. It can be taken back.
What a bunch of slave-owners thought about guns hundreds of years ago is not really relevant to today.
And if you're going to attack someone for thinking people should be armed for the wrong reason, maybe you should find better targets.
Whoa, I’m not attacking you. I have a difference in opinion as to why people should be armed. Not saying that one does not have a right to self defense, just that i put stock in the need to collectively hold the government accountable and fight tyranny
i put stock in the need to collectively hold the government accountable and fight tyranny
It sounds good until the majority of gun owners in the country decide they like the tyranny.
When're you gonna start?
And you can see why, from what I already wrote, that is not likely to work unless the majority is on your side. And the military.
It's not about mounting an organized resistance. It's about making the black bag squads scared of coming to your house specifically.
When the chips are down, nobody's got your back like you do.
That's literally what I said:
I think that you should think of it as personal protection rather than preparation for something larger.
That's actually the sentence that was cryptic enough for me to misread it, but the rest of your comment is pretty clear.
I think we agree that it is important to consider parallels in history, but the US is not 1930s Germany.
The U.S. is almost exactly like 1930s Germany in 1932. It's not 1933 yet.
Germany is roughly 138,000 square miles in size, while the USA is approximately 4,000,000 square miles.
The population of Germany in the 1930's was roughly 60,000,000, the population of the US today, closer to 400,000,000.
The US does not share an international border with 10 different countries.
That's just for starters. So while I agree there are parallels, there are a lot more differences that you're not accounting for.
I don't think you're stupid and I think you're able to read context, so why you're pretending I wasn't talking about the political atmosphere and playing this "well actually" game, I don't know.
As an alternative, if we assume that a significant portion of the left is armed instead of just a minority, Rojava would be a good modern day example of the realistic effectiveness of an armed populace, as they employ horizontal citizen militias to survive against both ISIS and Turkey.
The Spanish Civil War is another interesting example, as the initial response from the left/anarchists when the fascists began their coup attempt was made up of civilian militias formed quickly and armed with whatever they had or could source from a local armory, and they were able to effectively fight off the initial coup in almost half the country, and gather themselves up for a protracted conflict. It's not quite as direct an example, as the leftists in that conflict we supplemented with tanks and airplanes and artillery from the USSR, but firearms were an essential piece to their resistance, and had the populace been more armed before hand, it would've been helpful, as they had trouble producing and acquiring enough through trade.
There's a great series on the Spanish Civil War here that gets into the nitty gritty, if you're interested. :)
Sorry, you're calling what is happening in Syria a good example? Do you know how many people died? Also in the Spanish Civil War?
It's great how people here are willing to sacrifice so many innocent lives on their behalf.
Both conflicts are horrific, but what was their alternative? We saw what happened in Germany when few fought back, and that was just as horrific an outcome, if not more so (6 million Jews killed vs 300 thousand on the left side in the Spanish civil war, though estimates vary).
Tens of thousands died under Mussolini in labor camps and via execution, and the same would've happened under Franco in Spain (and eventually did, post civil war)
To be clear, I'm not advocating that any country rush to armed conflict, but history seems to indicate that it's better to be capable of defending yourself vs. not having the option at all.
If you have examples of pacifism being effective against fascism, I'm quite open to having my mind changed. In fact, I would prefer if that were the more effective option, if evidence supports it.
If you have examples of pacifism being effective against fascism, I’m quite open to having my mind changed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
With sentiment like "your body, my choice" floating around more and more, I hope that everyone in need will arm themselves accoringly.
Because the guys on the other guys think they are made of steel. Remind them that they have a lot of very vulnerable blood vessels close to the skin and that knifes are as cheap as their lies...
Jessie McGrath, 63, a lifelong Republican who is trans, grew up around guns on farms in Colorado and Nebraska. She decided to vote for Harris when Republicans started attacking gender-affirming care and “wanting to basically outlaw my ability to exist”. She ended up being a delegate at the Democratic national convention.
“Government getting involved in making healthcare decisions is something that I never thought I would see the Republican party doing,” she said.
What the actual...how are people this ignorant.
She was 100% on board with them regulating reproductive care because it has never personally affected her as a biological male.
She only has an issue now that her favorite team turned on her after telling her for the last 30 years that she's next.
Assigned male at birth is the term you want to use. "Biological male" is a term used by transphobes to spread misinformation.
Biology is very complex and not your elementary school version of biology. What makes someone "biologically" male? Is it having a penis, having testis, having more testosterone than estrogen, having XY chromosomes? These can all be intermixed with other characteristics.
The "basic biology" definition doesn't work in the real world, and the people using it are actively trying to harm trans people or ignorant. Now you're more informed so ignorance isn't an excuse anymore.
The problem is what does it mean to be biologically a man? Is it a static thing defined at birth or is it a description of the living organism as it exists? (It's the latter.) For example, there are some animals that can change their sex naturally. We don't say they're just the one they're born as.
OK, so now humans. If biological sex is a description of the person as they exist currently, what does it mean for us? Chromosomes are a useful tool because they contain the code that tells our body how to develop, but the actual development is the part that matters, not the chromosomes. The chromosomes will dictate what hormones are produced, and the hormones are what actually control development. We can control what hormones are in the body, so we can hijack the process and change the actual development.
So, since biological sex is a description of the creature as they are, if we hijack the process of development to tell the body to develop according to given sex, that's what their biological sex should be called, right? The clownfish that was once a male that changes into a female is a female. We don't say it's a male just because it once was one.
I can't say whether it's offensive. I'm a cis man. The issue I do know is that it's used by transphobes to pretend like they know more than they do and harm trans people. For example, congress's anti-trans bathroom rule. Speaker Johnson said: "All single-sex facilities in the Capitol and House Office Buildings — such as restrooms, changing rooms, and locker rooms — are reserved for individuals of that biological sex" He's using the term as a weapon, not as a descriptive tool.
Where it's most important is for doctors. My understanding is assigned sex at birth and medical records and understanding who the person is now is the useful information. They do need to know sex assigned at birth, and they also need to know if they're on HRT or have had other procedures. They have to treat trans people differently than their sex at birth because biologically they are different.
Biological sex is not as cut and dry as you might think.
Assigned male at birth is overall a better more descriptive term, as through medical transition trans people acquire different sexual characteristics.
I'm not an expert in the field but this is how I've seen people more educated than me in biology describe it.
What about people with testis but no penis? What about people with XY chromosomes but a vagina? What about people with a penis and vagina?
"Basic biology" is the problem. You think a high school course was enough for you to have a complete understanding of biology. Biology is complex and messy, which your class didn't discuss. It taught rigid definitions, which don't exist in nature. Hormones define biological development. Every individual has different levels of different hormones, and also things just happen strangely sometimes too.
There's also an issue with intersex people where some are born with both male and female genitals and the doctor (without consulting anyone else) may remove components the baby was born with to make them fit the rigid definition of male or female that they decided.
Nature is complex. Not understanding the complexity is fine, as long as you don't pretend to. If you insist that your understanding is complete though then you're arrogant and ignorant. It's best not to be that way because it prevents learning and improving yourself.
I haven’t even had bottom surgery yet, but thanks to HRT my metabolism is much more in line with that of a typical woman than that of a man. Meaning that it is much more accurate to refer to me as a biological woman than as a biological man. So saying I’m the later isn’t just insulting, it is even scientifically incorrect. A trans woman who has received bottom surgery is in fact for pretty much all intents and purposes the same as a cis woman who has received a radical hysterectomy. Unless you call that kind of cis woman a biological man, doing the same to the trans woman is just as nonsensical.
And yes, this really affects pretty much everything: The treatment of things like brain tumors depends on biological sex and if you treat a trans woman like a man you are going to see the same bad outcomes that treating a cis woman like a man would have. Because again: Trans woman are (from a certain point in their transition onwards) biological women. Yes, it changes, get over it.
The reason to talk about amab/afab is specifically because they are the only terms that are reasonably consistent in all edge cases, except clerical errors.
Small matter of clarification. Liberal and far left are as far apart as liberal and far right.
Its because sexual differentiation is many process that starts with an SRY gene and ends with hormone receptors all over the body. Evolution also acts on all of it at each step of the process. A good example is like chest hair patterns on men which are all over the place.
You can have a penis if the correct receptors are triggered while still not having testes or an SRY gene.
Evolution also has examples of creatures that evolved so that both sexes (hyenas) or none (many birds) have a penis in different creatures and where sexuality is environmentally determined (turtles). These evolutionary pressures that created all these animals may be acting on humans also.
Which all comes down to the idea that the way we treat people is socially constructed. Like we don't want murder so we lock up murderers.
People who want to legislate biological binaries are saying there's an inherent danger to society in allowing the edge cases to exist. I and many others would argue this is a kind of short-sighted eugenics program that disallows human diversity for purely aesthetic reasons.
The results are like intersex babies getting gruesome gender assignment surgeries to fit better into the binary so when scientists later poll people they get results created by the binary. We're sort of basking in our own farts when we talk about biological sex.
Edit: it appears the person we're replying to is uninterested in factual discussion and is just here to reinforce his own hateful worldview.
I'm pretty sure you're often confused.
Who assigned them male at birth? What if they were raised like a cisgender female typically would be in our society?
What makes someone "assigned at birth"? Is it dressing in masculine clothes, is it having a name like Michael and Billy, is it having a circumcision? These can all be comingled with other variations of child rearing.
Just because a parent assigns a "gender" at birth doesn't make it someone's actual identifying "gender". As a young child they have no say in the matter and it's quite frankly wrong to whitewash their childhood history and personal trauma like that.
Now that you're more informed, I hope moving forward you stop trying to erase people's adolescent psychological adversity.
I'm not a trans person, but I'm pretty sure that "assigned X at birth" refers to whatever gender is assigned on one's birth certificate.
Man, just reread what was shared with you and take the learning experience. You tried to be cute by making a mad-lib out of it and you sound way worse now than you did two comments up.
Edit hours later after checking to see if my advice was heeded:
It's entirely relevant to the conversation. She couldn't get pregnant, so she didn't give a shit that women's reproductive rights were on the table until the leopard ate her face personally. I'm as left as they come, but the virtue signaling you just did is why so many people get so turned off by so much rhetoric of our political side.
It's not virtue signaling. The language the other person used is what the republicans constantly say when they are describing trans women because they don't believe trans women are women, and it's used to take away the rights of trans people, and it's working.
There are plenty of ways to say that she isn't cis and doesn't have a uterus while being respectful -- like I just did.
I'm as left as they come, but the virtue signaling you just did is why so many people get so turned off by so much rhetoric of our political side.
I think you want the trans community and its allies to not confront you on dangerous rhetoric then, while they constantly have to fight people on the left and right to keep from having their rights stripped away.
Being an ally means being open to learning when we make mistakes, and the language the other person used wasn't appropriate. I hope you and others here can understand why.
You know how some cis people are fucking morons? We won’t better than y’all.
Is there some republican legislation that makes gender affirming care impossible for a 63 year old?
Can you be more specific?
The house just made it illegal for trans people to use the bathroom they want in the capital, and Kansas, Montana, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and West Virginia have banned people from changing their gender on their ID.
Tennessee also requires an ID to vote, so if a transgender woman shows up with a big old "M" on her state-issued ID, some fake-news-stolen-election minded poll worker can keep her from voting.
Granted, these don't outlaw hormone therapy or anything, but these are gender affirming actions outlawed by the government.
Not advocating anything, but there's a "it could happen here" podcast episode for leftists out there, with some really good info.
AR-15 is a very good gun to get unless you're in a state like CA. Shotgun sare good too, Mossberg is fairly affordable(btw, you still need to aim with shotguns). Glock 19 for a pistol, just know pistols are harder to use and you will need to train with it more.
I like shotguns, but I don't think they're a great defensive tool. Even with massive extenders on the magazine tube, you are getting a max of 8 shots, and reloading quickly is a pipe dream unless you are one of the very few, very highly practiced competition shooters.
They're going to pardon the militias like Wheels McGee did to that protester murderer in Texas.
Nah, dude's even used his disablement for more scumfuckery. The tree should've done a better job, and I hope he can't fuck anymore.
Can confirm, my wife has expressed an interest. We're just waiting for the local LGBTQ friendly range to open.
The other local ranges are either run by cops (ACAB) or require NRA memberships to join. Yeah, that's not happening.
Sometimes you have to open the gun range you wish to see in your neighborhood.
Or something like that. I think Gandhi said it.
Hey, you're in PDX, right? Do you have recommendations?
The one we're waiting on is called Wooster Armory in Tigard/Beaverton. Kinda by Washington Square, by the Guitar Center. The gunshop is open, but it looks like they're having trouble getting the range open. I'm going to pop in and say "Hi!" today and see what the deal is.
Threat Dynamics in Sherwood is good too, I did my AR training there.
Edit Wooster is now saying January for members, February for the public.
Perfect, thank you!
Go out into the woods. You can shoot on most BLM land.
She needs something more regimented than that. She won't do well free-form. :)
Not trying to belabor the point or anything, but with some planning you can make it regimented. I'm in northern CA, and been taking small groups out to a local BLM spot on the weekends. A big reason is to avoid the chuddy vibes at local ranges. We bring targets, do some instruction and have clear guidelines. We measure distances and we clean up our brass.
Also by helping the struggling gun industry
It’s not that easy. The vast majority of imports are banned and the remaining sporting imports are subject to significant restrictions. The overwhelming majority of guns sold in the US are produced in the US, even ones from foreign manufacturers. It’s not that dissimilar to cars.
I wouldn't say that it's the 'vast majority' of imports that are banned. The Gun Control Act of '68 mostly ends up applying to very small, often cheap, pistols ("Saturday night specials"), and guns that don't have a "legitimate sporting purpose". The ATF has said that practical shooting competitions (e.g., two gun, three gun, etc.) doesn't count as "legitimate sporting purpose", but the IWI Tavor is sold in the US, and is manufactured in Israel. source for that claim
Right now Turkish guns are having a moment. The Turks are making cheap firearms--sometimes very good, sometimes just cheap-- and sometimes making outright clones of more popular popular firearms. True, you'd be supporting Erdogan, but hey, you can't always win.
Personally, I'm waiting for someone to start importing KMR pistols. The KMR L-02 Orca OR looks like an improved CZ Shadow II Orange, but I suspect the $3200 price tag is lot steep for most people. :(
Sweden: for when you need a gun but don’t want to fund domestic fascism, and also need some cheap furniture while arming yourself …and maybe could I get one of those fighter jets on the side?
Are you sure you have enough guns?
Fucking FINALLY.
Yes, women should be armed. Gay people should be armed. Trans people should be armed. Religious minorities should be armed. People that are on the political left never should have ceded the right to keep and bear arms to the political right.
I'm planning on getting certified as a firearms instructor through the NRA (because no matter how shitty the NRA-ILA is, the training programs are solid) this coming year so that I can start working with The Pink Pistols and Operation Blazing Spear.
I would strongly suggest that people try reading This Nonviolence Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible.
If you're one of the people that is considering getting a gun, please listen to the "It Could Happen Here" podcast episode titled, Safe Gun Ownership.
I need a plugin like DownThemAll to just add every book on that page (including "Customers also bought...) to my Goodreads want to read.
Narrative nonfiction has become my jam. New favorite category, especially history.
It's only a bad idea when the people who want to hurt you aren't armed. Sadly, in America, that's not the case.
Nope, time and again we see law enforcement doesn't work that way for minorities. The same gun laws that protect the majority are used against those in minorities.
Also gives cops an excuse to kill us. Which they often use.
Those cops will kill you, armed or not. Less likely, if armed.
For example, see: DFW John Brown Gun Club shutting down cops who were looking to de-home a house less camp, by being armed and present.
American ‘solutions’ for American problems
It’s a shame they’re inherently dangerous, hence why they aren’t used anymore. They have a high risk of spreading infection when blood/fluid ricochets back into the device while administering a dose. Thus contaminating the next one to be administered. Basically, the risk isn’t worth the convenience.
I still think they’re pretty cool. They’re the real life inspiration for Star Trek’s hypospray. Many people would love a device like this since fear of needles is quite common.
One colleague of mine has a huge fear of needles. She basically had to be held down by four people while getting her covid shot. It was necessary, she consented to the manhandling… but a device like this would’ve made it a lot less stressful for her to get the shot.
What would you do in this situation?
Use knives and poison
Stuff that doesn't take 10 levels into rogue to work
The whole Russian project was to have our "polite society" collapse as we, as Americans, lost all faith in our institutions and turned against one another and in the process, also lost any kind of collective identity, which makes us a weaker target externally. That happened.
It's crazy to me, looking back, how much this was openly discussed along the way, as it successfully happened in slow motion over the last 10-15 years - wasn't there also a book released that just laid their strategy bare? If there are historians in the future, will be amazing to read the perspective on all of this with time and analysis from those not trapped within the cycle of death and hopelessness.
I think our society in reality is fine mostly; gun sales to conservatives under the Obama administration surged due to their fears at the time; now it happens again just in reverse.
The key problem is that the internet is separating people and allowing foreign actors and cynical domestic interests to create filters of what people hear and see.
you count yourself among a learned few then you should go out and create local events and spread local news as much as possible. People need to interact outside of their bubbles more and they would come to see mostly that they are both reasonable. It is only the facts that are current in question between the two isles, not necessarily the principles.
Think there's a lot of false premise and privileged POV in your statements here about your perception of reality.
Certainly not "fine mostly" by the major tangible measures that might contribute to a blanket statement like that attempting some basis in evidence. Maybe most counter to your position is the fact that the entire world is sliding right generally, most likely as an immature, frightened reaction to COVID-blamed inflation and opportunistic corporate price gouging. Among that, the lesser informed likely think that there is some "conservative" force that would reign things in - It's the idea that "Daddy will fix it", but in reality daddy never actually did fix anything when you were small, you just felt safe when he was there when you were a child. And Daddy isn't here anymore anyway - the person that would be daddy is headbutting windows at the US Capitol and asking Siri "how do you make pipe-bombs filled with liberal shit"
Also false equivalency with the Obama guns things - in that case, a lot of racist, conservative dickheads stockpiled weapons/ammo as a gut reaction and frankly a hope for a "race war", marinating in their always assumed victimhood, simply because a HALF black person was president. Versus now, where severely, actively threatened minority communities feel that they will potentially be forced into camps because of credible threats by the presumptive president elect gop do just that. So yes, now a few, exaggerated by media, are getting gun training and basic weapons out of fear of the collapsing world they observe first hand around them as the very real threat of someone kicking in their door in the not too distant future.
But I'm sure things are "fine mostly" for you. 401k doing okay? Still get your two full weeks in the Bahamas this summer vacation? Mom and Dad still paying your car insurance and cell phone bills on time?
Yes it is called the foundations of geopolitics, written by Aleksandr Dugin. Its free to read on the internet archive.
Stop banging and start banging!
May I offer you an egg in this trying times?
i support this line of thinking. Why fuck people when you can just shoot them instead, wait....
Nah, man, the ultimate cause is always anti-black racism.
Along with weaponized religion and stupidity of course
Stay strapped or get clapped...
It feels like they picked the worst screenshot intentionally though when talking about that YouTuber...
Like, maybe it's a new kind of magnifier that you flip up to use instead of off to the side to not use. But that AR just doesn't look like whoever built it knew what they were doing.
Like the BLM protests where it was obvious people went out and bought ARs just for the event and didn't even put sights on beforehand.
That being said don't wander around gun YouTube on your account it only takes a couple videos for the algorithm to decide you're a gun nut, and that comes along with a bunch of other rightwing videos, because normally it does.
But Reagan is the one who passed Cali's gun laws, and he did so because people he didn't like were marching with guns.
Obviously it would have made more sense to start when Biden was in office, but it seems like unless protestors carry guns, the cops will just beat them without a second thought.
If they even think some have guns tho... Cops won't do shit.
If cops get return fire in a (leftist) protest/riot, they'll come back with MRAPs and live rounds and re-enact Kent State. They live for that moment.
Oh, and that magnifier is on a Unity FAST mount, and yes, it flips up to get in position. It's on a higher sight plane along with the Eotech to help with shooting while using things like night vision goggles, and a lot of people say it's more natural and comfortable for fast shooting in general. It's actually some Gucci shit and looks squared away to me.
Weird, I never saw one of those before, but if it works it's way better than hanging off to the side.
And I think you're forgetting how much cops are cowards. They won't go into a school when it's one kid with an AR and they have a seat team.
They'll say they want a firefight all fucking day, when they get the opportunity they shit their pants.
But we know how they treat unarmed protestors, and the difference when there's guns present.
I have a conundrum, maybe people in this thread can weigh in.
I'm a woman living in an area with a small but loud MAGA faction and useless police who are probably also Trump supporters. I'm also not white.
Hunting is common here, and although I've never been I do know how to shoot and have access to classes if I want to improve. We also have friends and family with firearms and a couple of them live nearby.
I feel like I should get a gun. I know how to use one and I want to be able to protect myself if necessary. But I'm scared of firearms. Something about them disturbs me. Maybe it's the likelihood of someone dying once a gun comes out. Maybe it's just a fear, however unfounded, that I can't or shouldn't handle such a powerful tool. But the reason behind the feeling doesn't matter so much as my ability to overcome it, and I'm not sure I can. If I had money to burn I'd buy one just to see how I feel, but I don't so I can't.
In short, I'm torn. I want to be able to just get a gun for peace of mind and call it a day, but I fear that as soon as the gun is in my house I will become a nervous wreck and that will defeat the whole purpose.
I'd love to hear from anyone who feels the same or has overcome this fear.
Training and familiarization helped me a lot with that exact feeling. I had the same feeling about circular/table saws. My dad was a carpenter, and those things freaked me the hell out - one tiny mistake could have devastating consequences, and that was all I could think about when I was around them. But with careful instruction and exposure, learing to use and be more comfortable with them, that feeling was gradually replaced by calm and confidence, and they changed in my mind from these objects of terror into valuable tools. There was still fear, but it was a healthy, respectful fear.
I went through the exact same process with guns as well. Some classes with a good instructor, giving you a chance to get more comfortable and familiar before you bring a gun into your home, could help a lot.
Everything you're describing is completely reasonable. For the past decades, left-wing "policy ideas" have floated banning guns or at least some form of gun control. They state statistics, examples from other countries, testimony from gun experts, etc etc all describing how perfectly harmful just owning a gun can be and how unlikely you are to ever run into a situation where a firearm will improve your situation and chances of surviving.
This has been overtaken by the rhetoric of "they're coming for you!^tm^". The exact same playbook that was used by the right-wing. Who wins? The gun manufacturers and war profiteers.
It's amazing to see the collective consciousness just completely glaze over from just a few years ago. If you think you're statistically more likely to be targeted, then it's your right to procure a firearm in the United States and I'll leave it at that. But, if you actually look into it, you'll find you will be put more in danger by having a firearm in the house than not.
You're right about the mental aspect, if you own a firearm and are constantly thinking about it and the threats it can protect you from, you've created your own hellscape that many are already in. It's much safer and better for the community to be involved in your neighbors lives and to form bonds with those close to you in a positive manner. Somehow, everyone's forgotten the examples the rest of the world has set forth and have fallen into Americana again.
It's definitely a mind fuck, going from "I support heavy gun control and don't ever want one in my house" to "this might be the single best way to protect myself from violent fascists, should they come after me."
I'm very involved in my community, but I live in a purple county and these days I am also feeling very outnumbered. It's tough to essentially be in a holding pattern waiting for retribution that we've been told to expect.
It's just tough, all around.
Take a reputable course and learn about guns. They are dangerous in the hands of irresponsible untrained yokels but if you are smart and informed they can empower you and safeguard your well being.
Guns have traditionally been a pacifier for anxious right-wing weirdos who are afraid of Nancy Pelosi, but they are also a good hedge against those right-wing weirdos and will be a pacifier for your anxiety about them
I don't own a gun and feel the same as you. I am leaning toward getting a gun safe and keeping the gun and ammo locked up and hidden. If it gathers dust that's great, but having it there if I need it would be a comfort I think.
You do not want to have a gun that you're not comfortable with. Having to deal with a high stress situation and then trying to use a gun when you don't have brain-dead levels of familiarity with it is asking the trouble. Luckily it's fairly cheap to build most of the muscle-memory with dry-fire and handling drills. But if you plan on using it for home defense or personal protection, you need to be prepared so that your mind can focus on other things during your troubles.
I mean realistically, I think people who worry about burglars are paranoid and the armed mob scenario is also silly. i think its more about helping neighbors out if you see something crazy happening nearby.
Yeah I've been considering that, but I'm not sure the ranges near me are women friendly spaces and I don't think I'm in the right head space to voluntarily push into a male dominated space like that. I wonder if there's a good way to screen potential ranges, should I just come straight out and ask if they're welcoming?
Having a life ending device just "sitting on the shelf" is definitely my biggest issue. I have an ex who would threaten to kill himself whenever our relationship was on the rocks, and while my husband is a very stable person I still have a hard time shaking the feeling that weapons+men=bad news. Though I asked if he was comfortable with me having a gun safe that he cannot unlock and he said he supports whatever is going to make me feel safest atm.
I just hate that this is where we are.
Lol, this thread is a train wreck and is the perfect example of why Republicans keep winning elections despite being on the wrong side of history and having policies that hurt the American population at large.
The left will never win as long as we form circular firing squads and argue over petty bullshit.
firing squads
You need guns for that.
The dude is trying to give some necessary criticism, but apparently everyone is immune to that.
Criticism is not destruction, unless you are okay with the current status quo
Criticism should be constructive, they offered nothing constructive in their criticism.
Keep forming that circular firing squad.
I’m going to slip out and duck down over here to eat some popcorn.
Nah man, people in here are not open to criticism unless it's "the way they like it" which is none criticism at all.
Just blame the Latino voters and move on
Triangles are too pointy
Because the whole “I need a gun now” reaction is just people trying to assuage the fear and uncertainty of the future. While there will continue to be random violence against minorities and lgtbq, the predominant way they will be hurt going forward is via policy. Policy that marginalizes them. Arming up because you think right wing mobs are going to enact a pogrom against you is no different than right wing nuts arming up because they think a caravan of criminal mexicans is heading toward the border. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking you are “in control” because you took a shooting class and bought a pistol. When we are afraid we naturally want to “do something” about it. But as soon as you reach for a weapon you’ve lost.
Easy to say when you aren't facing the threat of bias intimidation or hate crime by recently emboldened bigots, things that actually happen unlike the caravan paranoia.
So very much this.
Just ignore all the dead kids. They're not part of this discussion.
I'm all for guns but keep them responsibly. Which most gun owners seem completely incapable of doing so.
Edit: I'm amazed at how people have went from "all guns bad" to "you need a gun" due to the election.
most gun owners seem completely incapable of doing so.
You got a source for "most" gun owners being "completely incapable of doing so?"
Cause I've yet to see a study that says any of what you said above.
There are more guns than people in the USA. The numbers dont really paint the picture that most gun owners can't safely own guns.
You mean Americans, not people. This is not a normal thing in the rest of the world, only America.
You mean the country that has more guns than people has a gun problem?? No fuckin way.
This is the blue conservative version of "your body, my choice". Well that and the bipartisan war on drugs.
Now playing The War On Drugs - I don't live here anymore
We as leftists, must organize in ways that match the fascists. Subversion of their goals is our goal. The class and culture war is in full effect and we must not be complacent.
Ive had one for a while. It's not something I hope to ever use, but now it's less likely that an armed person will be coming after me for my money, which I can just give and not have to kill to defend myself, and more likely they're coming for my life.
ah i see Aleksandr Dugin's book is coming along as he planned.
Why are Americans answers to everything guns? So much paranoia and mental health issues in this country it's insane.
Well, we can't effectively ban guns. At least not in our foreseeable political future. And the people who are already armed are overwhelmingly voting to elect a fascist who likes to incite violence among minority groups.......... It's kinda easy to see why people would want to arm themselves.
I mean rapists, transphobes, bigots, and neo Nazis all now feel carte blanche freedom to do whatever they please in this country. There will absolutely be more crimes against women, LGBTQ+, minorities, and liberals. Not arming yourself against these animals is the insane thing.
If you look at the one side of the political spectrum that seems to be usurping power over here, they fucking LOVE guns. It wouldnt surprise me that if they got violent, it would be armed heavily with firearms. This is the exact response i would expect from would be victims of aforementioned gun violence. in the words of my constituion and bible humping american brethren, we shall NOT BE VICTIM TO A TYRANNICAL STATE!
What would you suggest? I have three trans friends who are making plans to move, at least for a few years, but not everyone can do that.
It's me, another trans who is actively applying to move out of the US. If I were staying here I'd be arming myself too even though I hate everything about guns. I've been voting, protesting, community aid, talking with people I know, building relations with my neighbors, it's all backsliding anyway. Not a lot of options left for me
No, they're looking moving out of the country. They already live in a liberal state. They're looking to rent out their current home and just hold out in another country for 4 years and see how it works out. One is of Jewish ancestry and knows their history. Trump promised to send troops into sanctuary cities and they don't want that to be the one honest thing he's said.
Look to what other countries do maybe, they don't answer every single problem with paranoia and guns.
Ok, how exactly do you think we can implement those changes in a Trump regime?
1 a republican in office l so we can't count on any law changing for the better. 2 even if we did reform gun laws the these people won't give them up. A lot of them won't even save their own children from disease
People radicalized to insane culture war bullshit and irrational solipsistic oblivion cults can’t really be negotiated with.
You realize that it sounds like you're talking referring to trans people and allies in this comment right? Just to be clear, which group are you referring to?
No, Right Wingers use that exact language as well. What they posted sounds a lot like vague posting to me.
My issue with your comment was that it was being vague. You were using the same language that Right Wingers use to describe trans issues.
Me months ago: "the NRA matters and feminism matters and the solution is making sure women have more and larger guns and better tactical training."
Everyone back then was like "no guns are bad!" and now suddenly, look who is seeing the light.
Trans people should not be armed. Trans people should be given vouchers to buy large amounts of weapons so they can be HEAVILY armed and also should be given subsidized weapons training by the government.
When I meet a trans women, I want to admire her dress and know she has excellent tactical training.
We need to stop seeing gun rights as a left or right issue and appreciate the fact that guns are anti-tyranny. The left's constant anti-stance alienates a huge number of working class people as well. The problem with any sort of "reasonable restrictions" is the government always wants more, more regulation, more rules, and little by little it gets harder for the average guy or gal or intersex person. Liberals need to stop alienating middle America with this anti-gun stuff so we can protect trans people.
America, can we stop it with the guns and violence?
I get the idea of wanting to defend oneself, but that ultimately means a shootout. It's hardly going to matter who shot the first bullet in the history books. The far right are also going to arm themselves when they see other people arming themselves. And it's only going to 'prove them right' in their eyes.
Do I have a better solution, no. But more mass shootings isn't going to be the answer. And it's only going to take one shootout before it's used in a legal sense against people. And guns aren't going to be what's made illegal in the United States, especially with a republican-controlled government...
The far right have already armed themselves. Pacifists just end up at the bottom of the mass grave.
As long as you have no better solution, then defending oneself is on the table. Nobody is talking about mass shootings, but when people are getting beaten up in the streets because the emboldened nazis are walking around feeling their oats, then maybe their intended victims should be given a chance to stay alive, even if it conflicts with your morals. Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
As dangerous, sad, and silly as that sounds, there is truth to it.
I don't like it, but we've made a fucked up situation. Likely the only way we get the momentum to fix it is if things get bad enough though, which I'm not encouraging just pointing out that a large segment of our society has a stupid concept of gun rights which isn't actually in the constitution.
You could make that same argument to the countries neighboring Nazi Germany.
We have examples in history of what happens to unarmed people when fascists take over and few fight back, and it does nothing to quell the fascist's efforts or 'fears'. We also have examples of armed people fighting back, like the leftists in the Spanish Civil war. Their defeat was not a given, and they made the fascists work bloody hard for it. The alternative would've been the leftists having to blend in or be disappeared/killed, or they could've left everything and fled. The less you fight them, the stronger they become, until they become too big to run from or ignore.
I get the idea of wanting to defend oneself, but that ultimately means a shootout.
Study a concept called “deterrence”. It’ll blow your mind.
It's hardly going to matter who shot the first bullet in the history books.
Generally speaking whoever shoots first lives while the other one dies. Above statement makes no sense?
The far right
Admit it. You only refer to “the far right” and never “the right”.
are also going to arm themselves when they see other people arming themselves
We’re already armed, in response to the other people who’ve been arming themselves for thousands of years. The world being a dangerous place is not something we are just discovering now.
Do I have a better solution, no.
Awareness is always a good first step to growth
But more mass shootings isn't going to be the answer.
Buying a gun does not cause maas shootings to happen.
And it's only going to take one shootout before it's used in a legal sense against people.
?? explain
And guns aren't going to be what's made illegal in the United States, especially with a republican-controlled government...
You guessed it. We republicans are going to make women illegal. Such clear headed insight on your part
Yes. That is misandry which is not a word we use often. No innocent people should be shot. But all people have a right to protect themselves.
There are going to be a lot more jumpy and armed people. It's the price of safety i guess
yup
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I do not blame any woman or queer person arming themselves in the U.S. right now. But I think that you should think of it as personal protection rather than preparation for something larger.
Be aware of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...
Obviously, women and queer people are a lot more than 1% of the population, but you can't count on every queer person being on the right side and you certainly can't count on every woman to be on the right side.
save