Do we need more users ?

5 months ago by rako to c/fediverse

Following https://tarte.nuage-libre.fr/... I decided to explore data a little bit more. I'm not the biggest fan of growth-as-as-target so I wanted to see how much the people were participating in the discussion.

The data

I took the data from the API explorer in https://api.fediverse.observer/ with this query:

query {  
  monthlystats {  
    date_checked  
    softwarename  
    total_posts  
    total_users  
    total_comments  
  }  
}

Then parsed the json with this https://jqlang.org/ filter:

jq '.data.monthlystats | map(select(.total_users > 0 and (.softwarename == "lemmy" or .softwarename == "mbin" or .softwarename == "kbin" or .softwarename == "piefed"))) | group_by(.date_checked) | map( {date_checked: .[0].date_checked, total_users: ([.[] | .total_users] | add), total_posts: ([.[] | .total_posts] | add), total_comments: ([.[] | .total_comments] | add)}) | map({date_checked, posts: .total_posts/.total_users, comments: .total_comments/.total_users}) | sort_by(.date_checked) | map([.date_checked, (.posts | tostring), (.comments | tostring)]) | .[] | @csv'

(As you see I filtered for the threadiverse. I also did the same with all software, I'll put the graph for that in comments)

Then did a good old' chart

What to think of it

I don't know. Users' activity is on the rise and I find it nice

IcedRaktajino 128 points 5 months ago

Just my two cents, but there's just no reason for people to come here when it's 80+% political shit and rage bait and virtue signaling. Hell, I've got 80% of the content here filtered out as it is, and I want to be here.

Find your nearest non-political hobby community and start posting things people actually want to see and maybe we might see some growth or people sticking around. My current hyperfixation/hobby is Meshtastic, so I've been pretty active there lately. If that's not your thing, then there's:

If you're like me and not good at any of that, tell us about cleaning your gutters or doing your laundry over in !Dullsters@dullsters.net

The point is, we need more posts about what make us happy and less about what we're angry at (which is pretty much goddamned everything).

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Lost_My_Mind 43 points 5 months ago

I agree with everything that you've said. I would also add:

Find your nearest non-political non-tech hobby community and start posting things people actually want to see

Because if we're going to cast the same net reddit does, people with a more varied set of interests need to come here. Can't be all linux, politics, and news. We're going to need people who like baking. We're going to need sports fans. We're going to need music.

I could type new communities we need to be active all day. Humans are surprisingly a diverse set of creatures. You have one set of interests, I have another. Different set of interests. And both are totally valid.

The thing people here don't seem to grasp is that OTHER interests and OTHER people using the fediverse isn't a bad thing. If a bunch of boomers come here, and make their own communities to talk about Taylor Swift, and whatever else they talk about on facebook. That's good that it would be here! Not bad!

They could talk about gardening, and model trains, and whatever else. It wouldn't appeal to you, and thats ok.

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IcedRaktajino 18 points 5 months ago

We had the same thought. Right before I saw your reply, I added some hobby communities to my comment as examples.

This place is so flooded with politics and raging over the news that I'm about to choose a random hobby community that's active and pick up said hobby just to be able to have something besides Star Trek and Linux to talk about here lol.

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Lost_My_Mind 11 points 5 months ago

Orrrrr.......pick a non-active community. Or both. And start posting in your local community. By that, I mean I live in Cleveland. There are 3 Cleveland communities. All dead. I'm the only one posting in one. I still get replies and upvotes. So people are there. They just all lurk until I post.

Do that. And post in a dead community. And post in an active community. We need activity basically everywhere besides tech/politics/news.

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Blaze 6 points 5 months ago

Consider redirecting people from the two other dead communities to the one you post to

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Lfrith 3 points 5 months ago

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zerozaku 10 points 5 months ago

We're going to need sports fans.

This. We are in huge lack of sports discussion here on lemmy. I'm looking at other places for sports content because it's just not here. I miss live threads.

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Blaze 5 points 5 months ago

!football@sopuli.xyz has live threads. The bot supports a few sports.

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Lost_My_Mind 2 points 5 months ago

I agree, Go Guards!

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GrantUsEyes 1 point 5 months ago

There's also !sumo@lemmy.world I have been meaning to check out the current tournament.

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melsaskca 1 point 5 months ago

Plus the other generations as well!

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FenderStratocaster 22 points 5 months ago

What we REALLY need is more posts about Linux.

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karashta 11 points 5 months ago

Do you use Arch btw

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Damage 1 point 5 months ago

Linux is too mainstream nowadays, I'm moving to FreeBSD

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FenderStratocaster 1 point 5 months ago

That's a little to popular for me. I'm starting a JavaOS revolution.

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maxy 11 points 5 months ago

Yes. I'm here for the long tail, the niche communities. And what do I see? Not enough photos of houseplants! Come on, you must have some too. And to add to the list, !books@lemmy.world looks nice.

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dkppunk 3 points 5 months ago

You’re the pineapple blossom post! That’s such a nice picture.

I've been intentionally trying to be less of a lurker and more active in comments. !books@lemmy.world is one place that I’ve tried to be more active because I love reading, thinking, and talking about books. I was also posting updates about a green lynx spider on my lemmy.world account before I switched to piefed, this is a good reminder for me to post an update on my girl (RIP) and her beautiful little babies.

Lots of us lurkers need to be more active, myself included.

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Sharkticon 0 points 5 months ago

Hearing this from someone that from what I can see has one post and four comments in 3 months is more than a little ironic.

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matsdis 2 points 5 months ago

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sol 9 points 5 months ago

My experience is that Lemmy is decent for tech-related stuff but outside of that, it can be difficult to find active communities depending on the hobby. I just went looking for a good Spanish learning or general language learning community and the few that I found have been inactive for months. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place (I searched in Communities > All).

I don't think maximum growth should be a goal for Lemmy, I just think it needs a critical mass of activity to keep it interesting. Currently I think we just about have that for many tech/FOSS related topics but not so much outside it. The problem, I think, is that a lot of people who aren't into tech/FOSS issues don't know about Lemmy and don't see why they wouldn't just use Reddit or Discord.

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Hanrahan 9 points 5 months ago

Just my two cents, but there's just no reason for people to come here when it's 80+% political shit a

As a contra point, I'm glad that its like this, a lack of politcal debate is toxic to democracy and that way be dragons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction, or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace, by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses). Juvenal originally used it to decry the "selfishness" of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population's erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be more other stuff as well though.

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bestboyfriendintheworld 3 points 5 months ago

Lemmy doesn’t have quality debates on politics either. The mods in the relevant communities swing the ban hammer liberally against everyone not following their opinion. Mainstream democrat talking points get banned as fascist. Antisemitic stuff is widespread as well.

You mostly get woke to extreme left echo chambers going on.

!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a good place to see this moderation in action.

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Ghyste 8 points 5 months ago

It would be a huge improvement if politics were corralled into the political communities.

There are accounts that double post in both politics and news as well as other communities, I assume because people who have politics filtered actually secretly want to see politics... (/S)

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artyom 7 points 5 months ago

we need more posts about what make us happy and less about what we're angry at (which is pretty much goddamned everything).

Unfortunately the "political shit" and "ragebait" is important.

The Fediverse is what you make of it. If you subscribe to a bunch of communities posting political shit and ragebait, that's what you'll get. That's not a problem with the threadiverse, that's a problem with your curation. One that it sounds like you remedied, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to call it out as a problem.

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IcedRaktajino 14 points 5 months ago

Look at it from a new user's perspective; someone who has not curated their feed or otherwise "made the fediverse what they want" yet. e.g. They land on Lemmy World or another big instance and their default sort is "active". Doing that now in an incognito window, and half the front page is rage, same on the second, and the stuff that's not are some random shitposts and Linux filling in.

Truth be told, looking at that, I probably wouldn't want to sign up. Especially if I didn't know that different instances have different cultures, etc.

Assuming they're a normie (which we desperately fucking need here), I just don't see that they'd want to stick around. Aside from trolls and spammers, the only people we seem to consistently attract here are the "Wah wah I was banned from Reddit" types and, while there's certainly a sizable pool to draw from, I wouldn't exactly consider them the pick of the litter for growing the fediverse.

The point of OPs post is that usage here is declining, and I am simply pointing out that I feel all the rage and politics is not particularly inviting.

Edit: And you know what? I'm just going to fucking say it. There's too many armchair activists here who won't let you enjoy a single moment without reminding you that something bad is happening somewhere in the world and that you have some kind of moral obligation to be angry all the time about it. And if you're not angry all the time then you're somehow part of the problem.

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Die4Ever 5 points 5 months ago

We really need better onboarding for new users, maybe ask them about their interests to give them a default set of subscriptions (it would probably just be a tweaked version of the community search page). And default to the subscribed feed, not the All feed

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Blaze 7 points 5 months ago

Isn't that how Piefed onboarding works?

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Lfrith 1 point 5 months ago

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gandalf_der_12te 1 point 5 months ago

There’s too many armchair activists here who won’t let you enjoy a single moment without reminding you that something bad is happening somewhere in the world and that you have some kind of moral obligation to be angry all the time about it. And if you’re not angry all the time then you’re somehow part of the problem.

That's exactly what i'm complaining about as well. Being angry doesn't even help. Having a clear head helps, but being angry IMO stands against that.

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TubularTittyFrog 1 point 5 months ago

Edit: And you know what? I’m just going to fucking say it. There’s too many armchair activists here who won’t let you enjoy a single moment without reminding you that something bad is happening somewhere in the world and that you have some kind of moral obligation to be angry all the time about it. And if you’re not angry all the time then you’re somehow part of the problem.

Amen.

I am so sick of being lectured by some weirdo about 'WHY AREN'T YOU DOING ANYTHING'. It's nothing more than them projecting their pathetic helpless miserable life onto others. 'if you dont' support my pet issue than you are a morally bankrupt person!'

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mesamunefire 10 points 5 months ago

I love piefeds default :)

And as much as I dont like parts of bluesky, they did the onboarding the correct way.

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Dupelet 4 points 5 months ago

!Nonpolitical_comics@piefed.social!

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Scotty_Trees 4 points 5 months ago

I’m kinda bummed more people from Reddit didn’t come here after the exodus. But I guess it’s a Catch-22 thing cause that could’ve been all kinds of good or all kinds of bad so who knows so he’s starting off fresh and slow. It’s kind of the best way to go maybe

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TubularTittyFrog 1 point 5 months ago

a lot of people who came here are the insufferable types from reddit who think it's their 'duty' to harass and shit on anyone who dares hold a different view of the world than they do, or who is more open minded than 'anyone i don't like is a nazi'.

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Die4Ever 0 points 5 months ago

Lemmy wasn't ready at that time, it's much better now, but people won't give it another chance. PieFed is better now anyways and still increasing the gap, but no one knows about it. We need another big exodus somehow, and we need to send them to PieFed over Lemmy.

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Scotty_Trees 1 point 5 months ago

I have no interest in PieFed, it's Lemmy or I just go back to reading books. Heck maybe I should just do that anyways...Nah, who are we kidding ha!

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Die4Ever 1 point 5 months ago

well you can keep using Lemmy, I'm just talking about suggesting to unfamiliar people.

Lemmy and PieFed share content anyways so it doesn't matter which you use, you'll see posts/comments/votes/communities from both anyways

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mrmaplebar 4 points 5 months ago

I don't disagree that we need more positive and high quality hobby content. Sure.

But personally I'm so sick of dudes complaining about "political shit and rage bait and virtue signaling", whatever half of that banal nonsense is even supposed to mean...

In fact, I'd go as far to say that people who whine about everything being "political" is a bright fucking red flag to me. My immediate assumption upon reading that is "this person is a Trump supporter who voted for this exact shit to happen because they want it to happen, and they don't want to be confronted by the fact that other people don't." I know exactly what kind of people don't want to hear about "politics" anymore now that Trump is elected, trampling our institutions, and fucking everything up. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, right?

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supersquirrel 5 points 5 months ago

I agree, I think something that has been lost in conversation about progressive politics and leftism more broadly (in US-centric circles at least) is that as much as people on the left disagree about absolutely everything, in general (with plenty of exceptions) politically left movements and cultural spaces tend to be far better at identifying common values and truths that are universal and holding individuals and communities to those values and truths.

Whereas on the right the endless stumping about valuing freedom of speech turns out to mostly be a mirage when it comes to innocent, vulnerable people being physically murdered on camera by the state, on the left institutions and individuals are much more often held to a standard of values and called out if they fail to reach it.

When people enter a space where progressive and left voices haven't been systematically silenced and it is a new experience for them, they often react negatively and feel rebuked. I know some of my first encounters when I was younger with actually left spaces initially made me bristle with how willing they were to say no to things that weren't healthy, to challenge oppressive structures even if they were so normalized they were invisible to me... it can be an uncomfortable process but ultimately more often than not leftist spaces actually try to do it and it that is a good thing.

I entirely agree with people having agency to decide when politics comes up on their feed and when it doesn't, but the idea that we are all just being a bit too negative and obsessed with the news and we should cheer up is honestly insulting in 2026 given, you know gestures at everything. Everything is political, if you have the capacity to complain about being subject to "too much politics" be thankful for your capacity to experience that state of choice.

Also, and this is on a personal note, talking about politics doesn't make me depressed, it helps me feel less depressed and anxious because I know other people feel similarly and the more educated I am about what is happening the less scared and confused I feel.

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bestboyfriendintheworld 0 points 5 months ago

Leftist spaces have changed a lot over the last two decades. Not for the better.

Cancel Culture Culture is real and extremely aggressive among the left.

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karashta 3 points 5 months ago

The red flag is at least, "they have so much privilege in our society they can ignore politics", if not what you stated

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Ghyste 2 points 5 months ago

We have a lot of non-voters that love to complain about the results they helped achieve.

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Ofiuco 4 points 5 months ago

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OpenStars 5 points 5 months ago

There are barely any places that defederate from lemmy.ml, including PieFed.ca that you are on. Thankfully PieFed allows us to block all users from an instance, but new users will have to discover on their own that they even should do this, and until then will be exposed to all of their comments and posts.

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melsaskca 2 points 5 months ago

Exactly! Well said.

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whotookkarl 1 point 5 months ago

Maybe being able to build, share, and import groups of communities to use as your home communities would help with the new user experience? If you're into video games here's a bunch of communities, if you're into gardening here's a different set, etc. It would also help promote some of the smaller niche communities most people don't see without searching or browsing all + scaled.

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auraithx 1 point 5 months ago

I’m only here for the political posts. I’d visit more often if there were more people/posts.

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bufalo1973 1 point 5 months ago

Thanks for the links🙂

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Qwazpoi 1 point 5 months ago

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Skavau 47 points 5 months ago

Yes.

Do we want Reddit amounts of users? No.

But there's a lot of growth between here and there.

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logicbomb 12 points 5 months ago

100% agreed. A Reddit clone with Reddit amounts of users will end up almost as bad as Reddit. The thing that makes Reddit worse in that situation is that they are a public company.

This platform would have to evolve a lot before it can deal with so many users. There has to be some significant innovation and improvement in moderation and administration, or more users would inevitably lead to endemic misinformation and power tripping and all of that shit you see on Reddit.

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Skavau 18 points 5 months ago

I mean the intent here is for moderating capacity and tools to increase with user increases. Reddit grew but grew before its own moderator capacity allowed for it. Now I would argue its overall activity levels are inflated by AI, trolls and spammers. I'm on Piefed and in terms of the discussion about growth, I think about new instance admin tools can mitigate and prevent bad behaviour, trolling, AI and spamming from (usually) new accounts that otherwise would cement themselves on as regular spammers and trolls.

It's one thing to grow, but you need to grow the ability to deal with the problems that can derive from that.

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mesamunefire 10 points 5 months ago

One of the benefits of our "own" system is like you said, we can build the tools as they come.

Reddit and other platforms, we were always beholden to what they gave us.

With the fedi, you want something better? Build it! Or support those who are doing so. Its much more productive than just complaining all the time.

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gandalf_der_12te 3 points 5 months ago

IMHO the internet isn't for everyone. that might make me sound like an elitarian asshole but i think the internet's only for people who enjoy going through information and are able to think without being swayed by group-think (tribalism) because otherwise it simply ends up in a bubble of rage bait and propaganda.

Essentially i think that maybe the internet of the future will be much smaller overall (think like 3% of its current user count) but it will probably be better that way.

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Nioxic 41 points 5 months ago

Niche hobbies and small communities (that are active) is what is needed

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Ek-Hou-Van-Braai 17 points 5 months ago

For that we need a LOT more users. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation.

Hopefully we can capitalise on the next Rexit.

In the past lots of people moved over but left because of the terrible UX. I think PieFed has solved most of the UX issues.

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Nioxic 3 points 5 months ago

Reddit had the additional benefit of being found through google... that's how i learned about the site.

you cant google your way into this place - and that's a huge limitation, when it comes to expanding the user base with random normal people.

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OpenStars 5 points 5 months ago

If you Google for "beans no pooping challenge" https://lemmy.eco.br/... at least appears on the first page of results - that's progress, baby!

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sylver_dragon 9 points 5 months ago

This is it exactly. I made a hard cut with Reddit, but I'll admit to missing the sysadmin subreddit. The place was full of very smart, helpful people and also cranky. The PowerShell subreddit was another great resource. I haven't been willing to go back, but those sorts of communities only exist when you hit a certain mass of people on a platform.

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Sharkticon 8 points 5 months ago

Comes with numbers. Not before.

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Nioxic 1 point 5 months ago

Unfortunately yes

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YiddishMcSquidish 2 points 5 months ago

Yes! We need more esp32 users to come up with bonkers ideas.

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gandalf_der_12te 1 point 5 months ago

Efi System Partition 32 bit?

i remember writing code for the ESP boot system

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YiddishMcSquidish 1 point 5 months ago

I'm not sure what it stands for, but it's essentially a very powerful Arduino with wireless networking capabilities. I think the "e" is for espresif who manufactures it. I could be wrong though. Irregardless, look into it! Very cool little chip!

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gusgalarnyk 1 point 5 months ago

This is the number one thing I would bring up tk the question "do we need more users". We need more users if we want more niche communities, and I want more niche communities without having to post.

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cron 31 points 5 months ago

One thing that annoys me about each statistic about posts is that I don't know how many of these posts are actually interesting and engaged with.

For example, there is a specific instance that just mirrors reddit content and has barely any engagement. The bot posts mulitple posts per hour, mostly without any comments or upvotes.

It seems rather irrelevant to compare these posts to actually interesting posts with a nice discussion and a couple of upvotes.

My suggestion would be to count and plot the number of posts that have at least a few interactions.

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Ek-Hou-Van-Braai 3 points 5 months ago

Out of curiosity, which instance?

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cron 9 points 5 months ago

The instance is called lemmit.online, and the most upvoted post on the whole instance is "This bot is bad for lemmy".

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gandalf_der_12te 1 point 5 months ago

the question is whether the upvotes of that post makes over half of the total upvotes on all posts on that instance, and that i seriously doubt

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cron 2 points 5 months ago

No? Did I claim this?

The most upvoted post has ~20 upvotes, but there are a lot of posts with 1-5 upvotes.

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OpenStars 1 point 5 months ago

PieFed labels bots and bot-like accounts, allowing you to choose options like blur or show the content semi-transparently.

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cron 2 points 5 months ago

I‘m not worried about myself. It’s easy enough to block stuff I don’t like. All I wanted to say is that counting daily posts without excluding bots doesn’t make much sense to me.

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OpenStars 1 point 5 months ago

The issue does get murky - especially when people use the same account both for their bot posting and also for their human interactions, rather than separating the two.

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meldrik 21 points 5 months ago

I do feel we need more users, but not just users. It’s “niche” users we need. There’s a lot of techies on the threadiverse (Lemmy, PieFed, Mbin), but not enough people who care about other stuff.

So communities outside that, struggle to thrive.

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rglullis 9 points 5 months ago

But we are not going to get "niche" users if we don't get large numbers of users. Niche interests will only come up here when the population is so large that even the long tail ends up with critical masses.

Those defending "quality over quantity" miss this exact point.

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meldrik 5 points 5 months ago

My point about “niche” is that from the current perspective, the niche communities is the more regular ones, because at the moment, the majority of users here is technical. We need more ordinary users, not just more users.

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OpenStars 6 points 5 months ago

We scare normal, non-techie people away. The Threadiverse in general and Lemmy in particular is very lacking in moderation capabilities, especially by not federating mod reports across instances (PieFed does that, but Lemmy does not).

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asudox 18 points 5 months ago

We need active users, not just users that post something once then disappear. The MAU is more important than the user count.

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rako 15 points 5 months ago

The stats with all softwares

We can see a globally slowly downward trend, probably not good but I'm definitely not equipped to analyze that

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Auster 9 points 5 months ago

Makes me wonder if it's specific softwares that are pulling the statistics downward, or in general. Also the last 6 months seem rather stable on the graph.

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InternetCitizen2 14 points 5 months ago

Maybe its a question of organization. Perhaps we shouldn't have generic instances just instances around topics. That way niches can form without being too fractured and if said topic goes away it does not take several other coms with it.

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artifex 21 points 5 months ago

I’d rather see better discovery tools and better community/account migration tools. Id be worried about topic-specific instances potentially backfiring by concentrating too much influence for a given set of subjects on the “preferred” instances

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tburkhol 8 points 5 months ago

Good discovery tools are essential on a federated platform. An important part of twitter, facebook, and reddit success is/was that that they were the place for their particular style of content. You had a pretty good chance of being able to discover your old high school friends, because they were on the one platform. Then the (early) algorithm started discovering for you all the obscure content similar to your history.

Discovery has to work differently in a federated system. You can search for communities on Lemmy, but if your instance doesn't already have someone subscribed to a community, then you're not going to find it.

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gandalf_der_12te 3 points 5 months ago

better discovery tools

i think communities should have links to "related communities" in their sidebar sothat people can find similar communities more easily.

There could even be a "recommended" posts listing, besides the "subscribed"/"local"/"all" as it is today. it would show you posts from linked communities from communities that you already subscribed to too.

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Xanthobilly 15 points 5 months ago

This defeats the purpose of the platform being distributed. For example if all political threads are on one instance it would be a ripe target for the authoritarian regimes popping up right now. I know there are dominant instances, but at least if one drops, people can migrate.

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Die4Ever 3 points 5 months ago

One issue is I think Lemmy's UX means there's less friction with local communities than remote communities (not sure why) which is why usually the lemmy.world version of communities typically wins without a lot of effort to steer people

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OpenStars 2 points 5 months ago

Moderation reports are currently not federated (well they are in PieFed, but not in Lemmy) - at some point that will be added, but for all this time after the Rexodus this has been true. This lack of federation has hindered the growth of the Threadiverse.

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Die4Ever 2 points 5 months ago

Lemmy v1.0 has suffered too much scope creep, this update is way late while PieFed runs circles around Lemmy

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OpenStars 1 point 5 months ago

Worse, I find that Lemmy typically (vastly) under-delivers what was promised even. Like for many years people were promised the capability to do personal "instance blocking", and for a long time after the Rexodus there were calls to avoid defederating places like lemmy.ml or lemmygrad.ml or even hexbear.net, because that feature was "coming soon^(TM)^".

Then when that change did finally come, it only muted communities on that instance yet still left users to be able to reply in other communities, plus they could still vote on and thereby influence your content (hexbear is KNOWN for its brigading tactics). And then a subsequent bugfix opened it up still further to allow such "blocked" users the capability to send you a private DM, even pinging you with notifications - which on Lemmy (highly unlike PieFed) there is no way to stop that, even for WEEKs and WEEKs after you stop engaging... your consent to selectively stop such incoming pings does not matter, realistically (technically you could block every single person from an instance, one-by-one... but even there, you would have to bot that or do it the extremely tedious manual way, as the software provides no tools to aid with that). PieFed has offered the ability to block all users from an instance for over a year now.

The only counter-argument to the above is that software - especially FOSS (although Lemmy devs even get paid?!?) - takes time to develop. Which makes things like the bugs and inefficiencies that remain in Lemmy for years and years all the more disheartening. And then here comes PieFed, running around Lemmy in circles, it is almost no comparison at all.

And then I'm sure that I do not need to list out the rather LONG list of features that PieFed offers that aids community discovery - it's quite amazing to see actually:-). PieFed is a game-changer for the Threadiverse, and might just keep it alive whereas it would otherwise have either died off or at least remained in obscurity forever known as a mere linux (& politics) forum. As things keep moving forward though, I think one day it could rival BlueSky, at least in terms of features offered, though whether a non-profit FOSS could ever overcome the strong network effect will remain to be seen... For that I think we would need a modmail, definitely notification upon content removal, perhaps better searching capability, maybe better modlog access, but not much else? (& 3rd party apps catching up to offer its features but that is not PieFed's work anymore, now that so much has been exposed in the APIs)

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MoogleMaestro 12 points 5 months ago

Needing more users is fine. Sure, we could always use more friends (or enemies, I guess)

But, ultimately, just having people come here first and then whatever hellhole corpo-media second is at least a step in the right direction. I feel like user activity increasing is a good sign that there's a lot of people out there investing time in the fediverse instead of the corporate hell-loop social media.

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frog_brawler 11 points 5 months ago

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laranis -1 points 5 months ago

That's a very capitalist take. Remember how good things used to be? That's how good the Fediverse is now. We don't want it to grow or die. If it grows, great. If it doesn't, great. Quality over quantity, imo.

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TubularTittyFrog 7 points 5 months ago

the fediverse is very low quality unless you're a furry linux-using anarchist/communist

for those of us who live in a broader reality with more 'normie' beliefs and lifestyles, it's weak. it needs less weirdos who go around projecting their persecution complex everywhere

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YiddishMcSquidish 8 points 5 months ago

Where is all this furry shit everyone is complaining about? I see one or two posts break 100 votes maybe every other week.

You're spot on about Linux though. But I think it's a good thing to be introduced to stuff you're uncomfortable with. The constant flood of Linux content convinced me to switch.

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TubularTittyFrog 2 points 5 months ago

every other day i have to block 2-3 furry communities, usually porno ones.

they aren't no the front page, but once you go a few clicks deeper, boom goes the furry memes/porn.

i've blocked like 50 communities and 90% of them are furry content.

most of this was in the past few months, i never saw it the first 1.5 years i was here.

being introduce to furry porn isn't expanding my horizon, it's just annoying and weird, and offputting. it's a sexual fetish. looking at pictures of feet would be similar, but I don't get bombarded by foot porn here, just furry porn.

Also the linux fetishism on this site is super weird. I'm an IT professional. I use Linux. I don't idealize it however. It's just another OS among many. And most of the Linux content is more about being ANGRY about microsoft and apple than anything else.

25 years ago people were going on the same about how linux will save the world... and fantazing that one day microsoft would crumble. it didn't. it won't. in fact the opposite happened.

Linux is fine, but it's a niche OS for nerds and admins. It's not for regular home/office users and you aren't a technology Jesus for using it or discovering it. It's been around since the 1991.

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rako 2 points 5 months ago

Be the change you want to see. You want the right kind of content to magically come to you, how do you think this content exists in the first place

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Randomgal 2 points 5 months ago

Yep. This is it.

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frog_brawler 4 points 5 months ago

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laranis -2 points 5 months ago

You've convinced me that we need more users given the high number of current posters who like to criticize others with insults reminiscent of a bratty 5th grader. We need to dilute that voice.

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melsaskca 3 points 5 months ago

I saw it as more philosophical than capitalistic. Like when Nietzsche said "What does not kill you makes you stronger".

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1984 11 points 5 months ago

I dont think more users is very important. Its not going to make Lemmy change from mostly memes anyway.

The mentality of the largest Lemmy instances is still to moderate away opinions they dont agree with, so this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.

Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.

But we can all enjoy memes together. :) Its kind of nice. Lemmy is chill and easy. Even kid friendly.

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JubilantJaguar 4 points 5 months ago

this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.

Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.

So true, and so sad. This has been such a disappointment to me, and even a bit of a surprise. I just didn't realize how badly most people respond to seeing viewpoints they don't fully share. Personally I don't get the point of discussion where everyone agrees, but apparently that is quite a rare attitude. So I share your pessimism, but with one glimmer of hope. There is at least one forum which has cracked this problem: Hacker News. The issue being that it's frequented by exactly the kind of techie Spock-like personalities that aren't representative of the general population.

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1984 4 points 5 months ago

Yeah exactly, they dont have downvotes and any upvote also requires karma, so you cant just create new accounts and bot upvote things.

But yes, its also a much more mature audience at that site. Many are older computer nerds. Lemmy has some of that too though.

They also have a moderator that is full time working on keeping the site clean, so there is that.

But yeah, I really miss discussions where you see unpopular opinions and they are not downvoted, because I can handle seeing that. I may not agree and then I will just ignore or comment, not downvote it.

Without good moderation, it will turn into 4chan though. So yeah, the extremes are not good, have to be in the middle.

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TehWorld 1 point 5 months ago

That’s the old Slashdot model. It does change how echo-y the chambers become when you limit how things get amplified. Those with higher engagement get to push things a lot harder and I’d actually fear the opposite. An Ai model would certainly be able to echo the general feeling of a place and then slowly turn the dial toward a goal, and do it more effectively in that case as it can comment on everything anyway.

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rako 2 points 5 months ago

I like that communities/instances have opinions and go in a direction. That's what make decentralization useful rather than one big average thing that always pushes towards the status quo in the end. Make your own community with your own rules without all-powerful overseers, that's a system I believe in

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1984 1 point 5 months ago

Doesnt really work in practice. If a community exists on Lemmy world, you are not going to have success running the same community somewhere else.

Its just the nature of things. Even Lemmy is mostly centralized to large instances, despite its federated technology.

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rako 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah if you want to do the same community it's going to be harder, but if you want to make your own community with your own content and views it's different.

Also, the history of the internet contradicts your point, communities have moved servers since the beginning, there never was a unique central point for everything. Lemmy is a bit inferior here because it only allows you to see communities one by one, but piefed can group communities into feeds that you can directly follow. By not placrng focus on a single one piefed can push for much more diversity

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melsaskca 1 point 5 months ago

If I get about 50% likes and 50% dislikes on a comment then I feel my comment was closest to the truth. This tells me that lemmy is not an echo chamber.

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ZombieMantis 11 points 5 months ago

Yes.

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Kolanaki 11 points 5 months ago

Let's keep it just under critical mass for Eternal September to not happen.

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knexcar 2 points 5 months ago

That was over 30 years ago, longer than I’ve been alive. I just want niche communities to subscribe to (Cities: Skylines, model trains, Madison WI) instead of the constant barrage of generic politics, Linux obsession, and low effort memes.

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Kolanaki 2 points 5 months ago

That was over 30 years ago

It was over 30 years ago that the term was coined. As a concept, it happens all the time. It happened with Reddit multiple times.

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knexcar -2 points 5 months ago

Yeah, it’s happened multiple times that a website has reached critical mass such that normal people start joining and posting a variety of interests, rather than just non-stop posting about their super duper hardened non-fingerprintable self hosted LibreWolf instance with VPN to prevent those dirty big tech companies from stealing their precious browsing history data. No one will ever know how much they prefer AMD cards over NVIDIA and that they use Arch BTW! And general news and politics (Capitalism Bad™).

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Kolanaki 1 point 5 months ago

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zerozaku 9 points 5 months ago

The post the other day about lemmy needing more users and engagement gave a little nudge to me commenting more. I guess same thing happened with many users and you can see the spike in the graph.

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Stupendous 9 points 5 months ago

Edit: One thing I notice that is annoying are whatever conflicts between moderators and instances and seeing communities close with a message saying to join some new community on another instance. We're too small to be restarting communities because of whatever arguments mods have with instance admins. Most people do not care what instance they are on. I'll see people stereotype others based on what instance their account is based on and I'm at a loss that some people have already tribalized themselves based on fediverse instance they made their account on

The best stuff on social media is random hobbies. That needs to grow a lot. We want the people that are really into random stuff. Like maybe they're just really into fallen tree branches and for some reason there's a community out in the world all about fallen tree branches, we should want that. Over on reddit I enjoy the treelaw community. Get to learn about peculiarities of trees and property

As a start, fediverse would be nerdy. Going to be tech and privacy nerds. Gamers. Great, grow that. Be active. Get the food communities growing. Get the gardening communities growing. Bird watching. Whale watching. Train watching.

I remember earlier reddit. Like 2007-2010 for me. Back then it was nerdy as hell with a growing gaming and professional sports watching communities. A lot more comedy that wasn't global politics centric.

Lots of science, tech papers got big discussion and were the foundation for the community to grow. They had hobbies. They watched sports. Played video games. Gardening. Cooking. They'd talk about that too. Fun/educational communities

We have to be a lot more than just politics and grouches. If I just went by the grouches opinions TikTok would just be propaganda and then I see friend's on it and it's mostly cooking and comedy skits. Lots of anime memes. -- Growing the anime/manga community would be pretty big for the fediverse. Anime/manga fandoms are hyperactive posters

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Blaze 1 point 5 months ago

There's a list of hobbies communities pinned on !communitypromo@lemmy.ca

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Greenbeard 6 points 5 months ago

I think more isers would be good, though I like how the fediverse is right now. It's small, but it has enough content to have me coming back, but not so much that I'll spend the entire day browsing.

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fujiwood 6 points 5 months ago

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rimu 6 points 5 months ago

All will always be a dumpster fire.

PieFed has Popular, which is similar except curated to have less memes https://piefed.social/home/top/popular

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fujiwood 2 points 5 months ago

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Goodlucksil 3 points 5 months ago

I did that and it was evenly split between news, memes, reposted Tumblr and X posts and comics.

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fujiwood 1 point 5 months ago

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supersquirrel 2 points 5 months ago

Ok, what content stream in what medium when viewed in a bulk popularity view like that isn't 90% memes or equivalent?

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dreadbeef 6 points 5 months ago

reddit used to be an internet place you looked at in class or uni when you had a break. I dont know how people get introd to it, but appealing to high schoolers is what reddit did. I made my reddit account when I was like 17, and lurked before that

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BurgerBaron 6 points 5 months ago

Need to gain slighty more than we lose every year to stay healthy.

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ech 1 point 5 months ago

Why?

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gandalf_der_12te 2 points 5 months ago

because the alternative is to lose more than we gain each year because the option to "stay exactly the same" is statistically unlikely as it has a probability of around 0%.

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comfy 6 points 5 months ago

As for the title question:

Do we need more users ?

We don't need more users. It might be nice, there are benefits, but we don't need it. I agree with you on not caring much about growth-as-a-target, "growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell". I was here years before the first big reddit exodus with the third-party API changes and I was having a good time back then too.

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Zedstrian 5 points 5 months ago

Is there a way to analyze the same data with bot users excluded? That would be a more useful indicator of actual activity.

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solidheron 5 points 5 months ago

I had the idea to revive dead c/ by reposting from reddit. It's controversial to use a bot

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TerranFenrir 7 points 5 months ago

Here's the thing imo. Bots used well can be really useful. The most attractive part about Reddit/Lemmy though is the comments. Seeing what people have to say about stuff is quite nice.

BUT. I can see how bots can be super helpful to subscribe to content where community interaction isn't that important (like art posted by artists on Instagram, Twitter and so on). The main attraction is the art itself. Not the comments.

This way, I can see what my favorite instagram artists are up to without selling my soul to zuck.

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solidheron 1 point 5 months ago

Yeah I did plan to interact with whatever gets cross posted from reddit

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InternetCitizen2 3 points 5 months ago

Maybe limit the bot to only copy the top post that week.

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solidheron 1 point 5 months ago

Yeah it's weird that top post for the day doesn't work

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gandalf_der_12te 2 points 5 months ago

i think if you copy posts/images manually it's better because it shows that there's a human actually wanting that community active, so other people can see that and engage as well. if a bot does it, it's just a "flood" for no reason.

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Die4Ever 2 points 5 months ago

Also you can control the pacing better. A bot will nuke the comments/posts ratio into the ground and that turns everyone away when all they see are a ton of 0 comment posts

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Voyajer 4 points 5 months ago

Is this accounting for bots that are essentially RSS feeds?

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rako 4 points 5 months ago

No, I'm taking the data as it exists on the API ...

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baconmonsta 4 points 5 months ago

The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users

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MoogleMaestro 7 points 5 months ago

The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users

I don't see this on mine. Isn't NSFW enabled by default?

This is why I don't generally believe in all being a good "starting" view for new users. Local would probably make more sense until the user has subscriptions, and then defaulting to subscriptions once the user has joined communities. This would mean an always active feed to start, prioritizing the "local" community for users to participate in the instance they belong to, while also not bombarding them with content from the firehose.

My 2 cents, probably easier to say what to do than to do it though, being a programmer myself. 😎

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gandalf_der_12te 3 points 5 months ago

yeah i think when a new user signs up on an instance, they should be automatically subscribed to a certain list of communities that fit the vibe of the instance. like when you sign up to a memes community, you get automatically subscribed to all meme communities even from other instances.

the instance admin would have to maintain a community list for that.

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baconmonsta 2 points 5 months ago

I'm not saying it's necessarily NSFW content

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TubularTittyFrog 4 points 5 months ago

lemmy is basically NSFW because of this, yes. the amount of furry anime porn that reaches the front page is crazy.

i don't get why it being pushed, but I suppose it's just the userbase is very active and passionate about that stuff so it rises to the top.

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gandalf_der_12te 3 points 5 months ago

how comes i never see it? did i block it accidentally?

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TubularTittyFrog 0 points 5 months ago

you're on a different instance

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SilverFlame 1 point 5 months ago

I've been blocking communities and posters as they pop up. It works until someone spins up a new instance for it, but then you can just block that as well.

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TubularTittyFrog 5 points 5 months ago

yes, i can.

but it's problematic if I have to do that every day. It's almost a daily part of my use of lemmy.

I don't want to have to block stuff as a part of my daily use.

this is actually the reason I don't use tiktok or instagram. because my user experience was block block block, everytime I used it. And it never stopped shoveling the shit I didn't want to see into my face. and a lot of it was pornographic clickbait crap.

i liked it back when it was smaller, but around 2020/2021 both platforms decided to shove tits in my face non stop. and i wasn't on those platforms for tits. I was on there for my hobbies, but it kept pushing porn on me. so i stopped using it entirely. i still use youtube because youtube isn't constantly shoveling porno shit in my face.

that's kind of what lemmy feels like. except it's with furryies, linux, etc. even when I block stuff more of it keeps popping up. i want to see more generalist content related to general interests, not content from people who are fetishists.

i have been on lemmy over two years. my first 1.5 years i hardly ever had to block anything, because shit content i dont' like wasn't flooding my feed. when i first got here it was just a lot of general news/science/information and link aggregation about nerdy stuff, which i really liked and why i liked reddit. i know there was furry porn on reddit from it's inception, but I never had to see any of it unless i went looking for it specifically, like a lot of the fetish stuff on reddit.

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OpenStars 3 points 5 months ago

Try PieFed. The reason you keep seeing furry content on Lemmy is that you are forced into browsing "All" in order to see some new content, but then you don't like some of the new content that you see.

On PieFed with categories of communities (instance-defined Topic areas and user Feeds that are user-customizeable and shareable) you can have your cake (have a tight Subscribed feed, e.g. without being subscribed to any politics communities if you wanted) but then also eat it too (news & politics content is but a click away, or movies & TV).

Combining together comments across all cross-posts also helps a lot with community discovery. I haven't searched by All in a long time, unless I just felt nostalgic and wanted to, but there is no longer any need with this new model.

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Kolanaki 2 points 5 months ago

I am literally on a furry instance, I subscrube to most furry and a lot of anime comms, and I don't block NSFW content; I rarely if ever see furry or anime content on the front page and yet I see this said a lot on Lemmy.

Where is it? Where is all this furry content? I specifically requested it and it doesn't exist. 😬

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TheOakTree 1 point 5 months ago

For me, it's rarely ever furries. Usually it's the waifu posts that get the hammer from me, mostly because I scroll this thing in public and around people I know.

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gandalf_der_12te 1 point 5 months ago

yeah there's always gonna be some users who would like more furry/anime content on the front page and those who might be put off by it

IMHO the best way to do it would be to recommend specific instances to potential new users. i.e. if you know they like furry/anime content, recommend lemmy.blahaj.zone, if you know they like programming memes, recommend programming.dev, etc ...

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rako 0 points 5 months ago

Pro-capitalism garbage is putting me off, yet is everywhere. I like that it's different, not everyone wants the same things

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witty_username 2 points 5 months ago

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Kekzkrieger 2 points 5 months ago

Quality over quantity

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bestboyfriendintheworld 5 points 5 months ago

Lemmy has neither.

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Kekzkrieger 4 points 5 months ago

I disagree, ive had more useful discussion here than anywhere on the internet in a while.

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knexcar 3 points 5 months ago

All I see is about 60% general news/politics (pointing out the obvious, Trump bad, ICE bad, America is dumb, people should be rioting in the streets from all the bad things, capitalism bad), 30% Linux/FOSS circlejerk (don’t use Chrome, use Firefox, don’t use Firefox, use Librewolf, don’t use AI, Linux always works out of the box and is so easy to use even a grandparent can do it, it also has an App Store, oh you had an error with the App Store just start typing black magic into the command line, and don’t use snaps, I use arch BTW), and 10% low effort memes (Greentext, ADHD memes, usually generic and low effort). None of these are particularly plentiful — except for the fact that they’re the ONLY content seemingly available — and none are high quality either. I don’t ever see any Cities: Skylines content for instance, let alone Workers and Resources. Have to go to Reddit for that.

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Unforeseen 2 points 5 months ago

Absolutely top notch summary of the state of lemmy

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bestboyfriendintheworld 1 point 5 months ago

What communities can you recommend?

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TipsyMcGee 5 points 5 months ago

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RumorsOfLove 1 point 5 months ago

Facebook bad. This is not a satirical post, Facebook is really bad. It is getting people so unbased

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pHr34kY 1 point 5 months ago

A "per user" graph is not indiciative of the number of users, or any change in that metric. You cannot use this graph to determine any effect of the total user count.

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transscribe7891 1 point 5 months ago

we need more variety

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fediverse

@lemmy.world

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, Mbin, etc).

If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!

Rules

Posts must be on topic.
Be respectful of others.
Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.

Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration)

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