@snooggums @The_Picard_Maneuver this is in fact correct. Sesame Street started in the 60s
@snooggums @The_Picard_Maneuver this is in fact correct. Sesame Street started in the 60s
yeah but barney's a dinosaur. he's at least three point something gajillion years old.
We do not talk about what Barney was doing during the 1940s.
wait what was Barney doing in the 1940s
He was chilling with the Minions.
He's actually a gojira but you were close
All this means is that the Thomas franchise has existed long enough to be publishing books since when that word was still in common parlance. I'm sure if you looked at anything from that era, it wouldn't take long to find something that appears problematic through a modern lens.
Believe it or not, it was not "normal" to use slurs in children's books in 1952.
There are Marvel comics from the 1940's with characters straight out of ministrel shows and they still don't use the word. Would you like to guess why?
Edit: not that it stopped Dr Seuss a couple times in the 30's, mind you, but he reserved it for comics and not his children's books, those only got racist caricatures.
The word carried somewhat less of a charge in the UK at the time, where black people were relatively uncommon until waves of labour migration from the Caribbean in the 1950s, than in the US, where it was freighted with the weight of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow laws and such. Agatha Christie could call a book “10 Little N_s”, alluding to a children’s rhyme. This was an age in which the children who casually sang that rhyme probably had golliwog dolls.
Sure, absolutely no history of slavery and colonialism in the UK. There definitely aren't a dozen Kipling stories where he calls anyone not a WASP by the term.
While Britain participated in the slave trade, they went out of their way to not do so in Britain; the slaveholders kept their slaves abroad and out of sight, in places where the laws of civilisation which rule such institutions to be obscene are waived. (Sugarcane plantations in the Caribbean were one such place.) And it was impolite to inquire too hard about the sources of fortunes that built stately homes.
The difference being that when the N-word was uttered in Britain, it was belittling and condescending in an exoticising way, like a colonial-era picture book of funny foreigners in their traditional costumes. In America, however, it had a more immediate edge of aggression and violence, implying an other that’s here rather than far away, and firmly below the speaker in the established racial hierarchy, and who must be kept there using tools including designating them as a (N-word).
Those were exceedingly good stories though!
It was altered in the 70s, around the same time the Thomas book was altered.
Setting aside the incorrect notion that there weren't black people in England until the 50s, the story in question was published in 1951 and remained in print into the 1970s.
"relatevily uncommon" != "there weren't"
Yes, and Black soldiers took part in D-Day seven years prior.
Believe it or not, it was not "normal" to use slurs in children's books in 1952.
It heavily depends which books you look in.
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pretty sure that racism in the days of yore was still racist (please remember who decided what was appropriate in common parlance back then)
it was as normal as it is now. so what’s your point?
You're not allowed to criticize or point out Southern Klans members because it was the style of the time.
Lemmy's just becoming worse and worse these days.
...are you okay? automatically assuming the worst possible meaning of ambiguous statements doesn't seem healthy.
what about this: "pointing the klansmen out to people back then was harder because the average person was more racist."
the hays code didn't apply to colloquial speech, it applied to movies.
The Hayes Code didn’t apply to books at all, it was movie specific. I assumed they were talking about the dominant culture at the time.
it just cracks me up because if you look for Hays violating shit, it's everywhere back then. If they wanted to sing about sex, they sang about food.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/... (Agatha Christie, 1939)
Context: https://www.scribd.com/... page 60 of the book, 64 of the document.
Written version in case someone doesn't want to click on random links:
The Guard's flag waved, his whistle blew, and they were off. Soon in the distance they saw the bridge. There were the boys and they all had stones. "Are you ready, Henry?" said this Driver. "Sneeze hard when I tell you." "Now!" he said, and turned the handle. "Atisha Atisha Atishooooooh!" Smoke and steam and ashes spouted from his funnel. They went all over the bridge, and all over the boys who ran away as black as ####.
fuck censorship. historical context is important when referencing historical facts. society must be reminded of why language like this is no longer acceptable in order to keep it unacceptable, lest we forget.



JFC
Isn't it "lest"? Not a native speaker so I don't really know.
huh, so it is.
I always thought it was spelled the same just said differently similar to read(red) and read(reed).
he doesn't even look sorry
"shitwhistle" (it's a slur among sentient trains)
You hear that, Bobandy? That shrill sound in the distance? That's a shitwhistle heralding the arrival of the shit train. Carrying countless shitcars each filled with tons and tons of shitcargo. Should be here any moment, Bobandy, but first a little drinky poo!
He knew
That's no reason to throw the gamer word at them. Actually, it's more messed up because it was a bunch of lily white English kids chucking rocks. Should've called them crackers as he passed instead.
My god this was probably a real problem in 19th/early 20th century England though. Fucking kids can be fucking assholes lol
Henry wasn't sorry, it was on purpose. He was celebrated. I have read the entirety of The Railway Series to my daughter twice (I do substitute in "coal" for the aforementioned slur). There is some crazy shit in there. Engine body horror.

language use is gay.
no homo.
Let's not forget that unfortunate Spongebob scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNsWbK4OkZw
You’re thinking of Dambusters.
And it was still derogatory, but not as weaponised as the US. More like how they used the lesser N word.
Looks over shoulder
Whispers: "numpty"
Runs away
Lmao that sounds like a python library
It's hammered into a lot of people's heads that the word is very mean, and not just "insult" but "remember, people like you used to be considered animals and treated like property, subject to difficult to fathom attrocities".
It doesn't need to be directed to be a reminder. While reference is likewise a reminder, it's at least couched in terms that convey the speaker understands it has weight beyond "insult".
Couple that with saying it as a white person can carry significant reputation damage.
Since these lessons are usually imparted in childhood implicitly, and it doesn't come up often enough to drive introspection for most people, it just lingers as "don't say words that hurt people and make everyone dislike you".
Candyman candyman candyman lol.
For years I thought "bugger" just means "to annoy" or something like that, so I would say things like "This buggers me" or "You don't have to get so buggered about it."
Boy am I embarrassed...
Once I used it like that at work, everyone was surprised, and so I looked it up after. I'm actually dead now. This is my ghost typing.
Well, there was one episode of South Park about people who annoy you...
I've never encountered that word used with a homophobic intent, as far as I could tell. If you wanted to express that thought in my youth, other words beginning with B would be far more common. Naturally I found them as odious then as I would now.
Okay, I need more context to this. N-word in any of these franchises feels something so far off.
Boys on a bridge threw rocks at a train, smashing windows. Next time the train made sure to cover them in soot so they were “black as n—“.
And here I thought George Carlin was the hardest Thomas ever went. Turns out he used to roll coal on hooligans 🤣
The TV adaptation definitely glosses things over. For instance, in the show Henry has a big crash and is sent to England to be repaired. In the canon of the books, he was scrapped and swapped out for a better locomotive, who was then given the same name.
No, he’s sent to Crewe for a rebuild and returns with a new shape - mostly changes to his firebox iirc as he’s been struggling to build up enough steam with anything other than high-quality (expensive) Welsh coal.
Source: literally re-read the relevant book over the weekend.
Some youths were throwing rocks at trains going under a bridge, so one of the engines purged soot from its chimney as it went under the bridge as revenge, covering the youths in sticky black stuff.
That word was unfortunately rather common in the past:
What the filter is that?
I thought vertical videos and word by word transcripts was aweful, now they add shitty filters?
They've been doing that for a while to work around copyright claims. And as someone with less than perfect hearing, I always appreciate transcripts/subtitles.
I love subtitles, just not the word-by-word ones. Give me full phrases dammit!
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Pretty sure 75 years is prior to the other three existing, so Thomas & Friends has technically gone longer without dropping an N-bomb.
save