Thomas, no!

7 days ago by The Picard Maneuver to c/memes

snooggums 211 points 7 days ago

Pretty sure 75 years is prior to the other three existing, so Thomas & Friends has technically gone longer without dropping an N-bomb.

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Artemis201 65 points 7 days ago path: 0 26174482 26174554, hotness: undefined, score: 65, children: 9
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 51 points 7 days ago

yeah but barney's a dinosaur. he's at least three point something gajillion years old.

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dharmacurious 60 points 7 days ago

We do not talk about what Barney was doing during the 1940s.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 33 points 7 days ago

wait what was Barney doing in the 1940s

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harrys_balzac 17 points 7 days ago

He was chilling with the Minions.

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neatchee 14 points 7 days ago

"NOT THE MAMA!"

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caseyweederman 1 point 7 days ago

He's actually a gojira but you were close

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gastroglizzy 91 points 7 days ago

All this means is that the Thomas franchise has existed long enough to be publishing books since when that word was still in common parlance. I'm sure if you looked at anything from that era, it wouldn't take long to find something that appears problematic through a modern lens.

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CrimeIsLegalNow 22 points 7 days ago

Believe it or not, it was not "normal" to use slurs in children's books in 1952.

There are Marvel comics from the 1940's with characters straight out of ministrel shows and they still don't use the word. Would you like to guess why?

Edit: not that it stopped Dr Seuss a couple times in the 30's, mind you, but he reserved it for comics and not his children's books, those only got racist caricatures.

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AllNewTypeFace 24 points 7 days ago

The word carried somewhat less of a charge in the UK at the time, where black people were relatively uncommon until waves of labour migration from the Caribbean in the 1950s, than in the US, where it was freighted with the weight of slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow laws and such. Agatha Christie could call a book “10 Little N_s”, alluding to a children’s rhyme. This was an age in which the children who casually sang that rhyme probably had golliwog dolls.

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CrimeIsLegalNow 4 points 7 days ago

Sure, absolutely no history of slavery and colonialism in the UK. There definitely aren't a dozen Kipling stories where he calls anyone not a WASP by the term.

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AllNewTypeFace 10 points 7 days ago

While Britain participated in the slave trade, they went out of their way to not do so in Britain; the slaveholders kept their slaves abroad and out of sight, in places where the laws of civilisation which rule such institutions to be obscene are waived. (Sugarcane plantations in the Caribbean were one such place.) And it was impolite to inquire too hard about the sources of fortunes that built stately homes.

The difference being that when the N-word was uttered in Britain, it was belittling and condescending in an exoticising way, like a colonial-era picture book of funny foreigners in their traditional costumes. In America, however, it had a more immediate edge of aggression and violence, implying an other that’s here rather than far away, and firmly below the speaker in the established racial hierarchy, and who must be kept there using tools including designating them as a (N-word).

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DaGreenGobbo 2 points 7 days ago

Those were exceedingly good stories though!

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Bruncvik 4 points 7 days ago

I just checked my copy of the book. Even though it was first published in 1939, my copy was still published under the original titlein 1963.

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ohulancutash 3 points 6 days ago

It was altered in the 70s, around the same time the Thomas book was altered.

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UnspecificGravity -1 points 7 days ago

Setting aside the incorrect notion that there weren't black people in England until the 50s, the story in question was published in 1951 and remained in print into the 1970s.

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protogen420 11 points 7 days ago

"relatevily uncommon" != "there weren't"

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DaGreenGobbo 3 points 7 days ago

Yes, and Black soldiers took part in D-Day seven years prior.

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 4 points 6 days ago

Believe it or not, it was not "normal" to use slurs in children's books in 1952.

It heavily depends which books you look in.

1280px-Golliwogg1

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estrange_alien 15 points 7 days ago

pretty sure that racism in the days of yore was still racist (please remember who decided what was appropriate in common parlance back then)

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CyberEgg 39 points 7 days ago

And nobody denied that. The statement was "racism was normal in those days", and not "the n-word wasn't racist in those days".

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estrange_alien 0 points 5 days ago

it was as normal as it is now. so what’s your point?

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CrimeIsLegalNow -28 points 7 days ago

You're not allowed to criticize or point out Southern Klans members because it was the style of the time.

Lemmy's just becoming worse and worse these days.

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CyberEgg 19 points 7 days ago

Again, nobody said that. You keep just making shit up.

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lime 18 points 7 days ago

...are you okay? automatically assuming the worst possible meaning of ambiguous statements doesn't seem healthy.

what about this: "pointing the klansmen out to people back then was harder because the average person was more racist."

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gmtom 0 points 6 days ago

There are things in the world to legitimately be outraged about if you want to be outraged. You don't need to force yourself to be angry at shit like this.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 3 points 7 days ago

the hays code didn't apply to colloquial speech, it applied to movies.

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Catoblepas 6 points 7 days ago

The Hayes Code didn’t apply to books at all, it was movie specific. I assumed they were talking about the dominant culture at the time.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 5 points 7 days ago

it just cracks me up because if you look for Hays violating shit, it's everywhere back then. If they wanted to sing about sex, they sang about food.

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DagwoodIII 1 point 7 days ago
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Silic0n_Alph4 5 points 7 days ago path: 0 26174599 26177309, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
PinkiePieYay2707 75 points 7 days ago

Context: https://www.scribd.com/... page 60 of the book, 64 of the document.

Written version in case someone doesn't want to click on random links:

The Guard's flag waved, his whistle blew, and they were off. Soon in the distance they saw the bridge. There were the boys and they all had stones. "Are you ready, Henry?" said this Driver. "Sneeze hard when I tell you." "Now!" he said, and turned the handle. "Atisha Atisha Atishooooooh!" Smoke and steam and ashes spouted from his funnel. They went all over the bridge, and all over the boys who ran away as black as ####.

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GreenKnight23 158 points 7 days ago

fuck censorship. historical context is important when referencing historical facts. society must be reminded of why language like this is no longer acceptable in order to keep it unacceptable, lest we forget.

choochoo motherfucker

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MrScottyTay 16 points 6 days ago

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ramenshaman 15 points 7 days ago

JFC

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OozingPositron 3 points 6 days ago

Isn't it "lest"? Not a native speaker so I don't really know.

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GreenKnight23 2 points 6 days ago

huh, so it is.

I always thought it was spelled the same just said differently similar to read(red) and read(reed).

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 82 points 7 days ago

he doesn't even look sorry

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dalekcaan 36 points 7 days ago

"Hey baby, wanna hear a slur?"

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 17 points 6 days ago

"shitwhistle" (it's a slur among sentient trains)

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GalacticSushi 9 points 6 days ago

You hear that, Bobandy? That shrill sound in the distance? That's a shitwhistle heralding the arrival of the shit train. Carrying countless shitcars each filled with tons and tons of shitcargo. Should be here any moment, Bobandy, but first a little drinky poo!

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JoeBigelow 14 points 7 days ago

He knew

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d00ery 19 points 7 days ago

The boys were ready with stones to throw at the locomotive.

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BigPotato 7 points 7 days ago

That's no reason to throw the gamer word at them. Actually, it's more messed up because it was a bunch of lily white English kids chucking rocks. Should've called them crackers as he passed instead.

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kestrel7_7 6 points 6 days ago

My god this was probably a real problem in 19th/early 20th century England though. Fucking kids can be fucking assholes lol

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BoxOfFeet 3 points 6 days ago

Henry wasn't sorry, it was on purpose. He was celebrated. I have read the entirety of The Railway Series to my daughter twice (I do substitute in "coal" for the aforementioned slur). There is some crazy shit in there. Engine body horror.

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abc 18 points 6 days ago

Both boomer and gen-z pearlclutchers seem to be equally oblivious in their own ways to the fact that language changes.

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TubularTittyFrog 10 points 6 days ago

language use is gay.

no homo.

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FishFace 15 points 7 days ago

(75 years i.e. 1951)

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lawks 10 points 6 days ago path: 0 26193724, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
yesman 8 points 7 days ago

I convinced a girl to watch "Battle Of Briton (1969)" with me one time. I forgot to warn her about the dog. She was shocked to say the least.

Does the Nword have the same cultural significance in the UK?

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ohulancutash 16 points 7 days ago

You’re thinking of Dambusters.

And it was still derogatory, but not as weaponised as the US. More like how they used the lesser N word.

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FishFace 21 points 7 days ago

wtf is the lesser N word can we just write them in quotes? It's not like Voldemort.

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some_kind_of_guy 21 points 7 days ago

Looks over shoulder

Whispers: "numpty"

Runs away

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LaLuzDelSol 13 points 7 days ago

Lmao that sounds like a python library

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FishFace 5 points 7 days ago

Oh god, worse than I could possible have imagined D:

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Zwiebel 12 points 7 days ago

Yeah this always irks me about english/the anglosphere, people act like mentioning a word is the same as directing it at someone as an insult

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ricecake 2 points 6 days ago

It's hammered into a lot of people's heads that the word is very mean, and not just "insult" but "remember, people like you used to be considered animals and treated like property, subject to difficult to fathom attrocities".
It doesn't need to be directed to be a reminder. While reference is likewise a reminder, it's at least couched in terms that convey the speaker understands it has weight beyond "insult".
Couple that with saying it as a white person can carry significant reputation damage.

Since these lessons are usually imparted in childhood implicitly, and it doesn't come up often enough to drive introspection for most people, it just lingers as "don't say words that hurt people and make everyone dislike you".

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 4 points 7 days ago

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Texas_Hangover 4 points 7 days ago

Candyman candyman candyman lol.

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yucandu 4 points 7 days ago

They still use "bugger" in the UK, which is basically the same thing but for gay people.

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wonderingwanderer 6 points 7 days ago

For years I thought "bugger" just means "to annoy" or something like that, so I would say things like "This buggers me" or "You don't have to get so buggered about it."

Boy am I embarrassed...

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gmtom 6 points 6 days ago

Kind of? Like you could call a child a "little bugger" and that would just be calling them annoying rather than an arse fucker

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explodicle 3 points 6 days ago

Once I used it like that at work, everyone was surprised, and so I looked it up after. I'm actually dead now. This is my ghost typing.

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Sonotsugipaa 2 points 6 days ago

Well, there was one episode of South Park about people who annoy you...

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DaGreenGobbo 1 point 7 days ago

I've never encountered that word used with a homophobic intent, as far as I could tell. If you wanted to express that thought in my youth, other words beginning with B would be far more common. Naturally I found them as odious then as I would now.

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yucandu 0 points 6 days ago

Doesn't matter, the word is rooted in homophobic intent.

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melsaskca 5 points 6 days ago

So, are George Carlin and Ringo Starr racists?! /s

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Donkter -5 points 6 days ago

Probably, they grew up in a time when it was harder to know better but it's still racism when most of society does it.

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QuentinCallaghan 4 points 7 days ago

Okay, I need more context to this. N-word in any of these franchises feels something so far off.

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ohulancutash 22 points 7 days ago

Boys on a bridge threw rocks at a train, smashing windows. Next time the train made sure to cover them in soot so they were “black as n—“.

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Texas_Hangover 7 points 7 days ago

And here I thought George Carlin was the hardest Thomas ever went. Turns out he used to roll coal on hooligans 🤣

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ohulancutash 9 points 7 days ago

The TV adaptation definitely glosses things over. For instance, in the show Henry has a big crash and is sent to England to be repaired. In the canon of the books, he was scrapped and swapped out for a better locomotive, who was then given the same name.

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Kirp123 11 points 7 days ago

They also punish a locomotive by sealing it behind a brick wall. Considering those things are sentient and basically immortal that's some new levels of fucked up.

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Silic0n_Alph4 5 points 7 days ago

No, he’s sent to Crewe for a rebuild and returns with a new shape - mostly changes to his firebox iirc as he’s been struggling to build up enough steam with anything other than high-quality (expensive) Welsh coal.

Source: literally re-read the relevant book over the weekend.

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AnyOldName3 7 points 7 days ago

Some youths were throwing rocks at trains going under a bridge, so one of the engines purged soot from its chimney as it went under the bridge as revenge, covering the youths in sticky black stuff.

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Blackmist 3 points 6 days ago

Don't even get started with Tintin.

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Tattorack 1 point 6 days ago

I don't think Tintin is publishing anything today... Or recently. Not anything new, anyways.

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state_electrician 2 points 7 days ago path: 0 26174664, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 4
blackshirt 8 points 7 days ago

What the filter is that?

I thought vertical videos and word by word transcripts was aweful, now they add shitty filters?

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Rai 5 points 7 days ago

Forreal, this clip is completely unwatchable. I took psychic damage ticks for every second I look at that garbage

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state_electrician 3 points 7 days ago

They've been doing that for a while to work around copyright claims. And as someone with less than perfect hearing, I always appreciate transcripts/subtitles.

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blackshirt 2 points 6 days ago

I love subtitles, just not the word-by-word ones. Give me full phrases dammit!

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varjen 1 point 6 days ago path: 0 26197978, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
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