Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
3 years ago by morrowind to c/technology
First RCS now this, today has been wild
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I've seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I'm glad that we do it, but i wouldn't say we are better than anyone else.
There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.
They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.
Nah, it still would be much harder.
Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.
To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.
Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic "it's for the children's safety" lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it's mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it's really only the Commission who doesn't want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
Did you mean FTC?
Not sure anymore. Maybe both I guess
That's what I was talking about: https://www.theverge.com/...
America is a huge corporation.
This apparently only applies to Europe, say least for now.
Wait for it. Slow roll outs
How do you know someone uses Linux?
Don't worry they'll tell you
That would be mee
Opsi
As a Linux user (and ex arch user btw), I'm deeply offended.
I use Linux (one that's based on Arch btw) Make one guess at:
- my diet
- what I think is the best text editor
Seriously, how am I supposed to keep quiet when I find a clearly superior choice? Especially when most people feel a psychological barrier to trying it, that turns out to be not nearly as big as the adcantages.
at least meat-reduced diet
vim
Exactly! I use neovim as a full IDE (got started quickly using the nvchad template). And I think you know which "at least meat-reduced" diet is most associated with evangelizing ;)
ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
Well they'll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.
That is easy enough to block or deal with.
At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.
I can't wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.
Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can't access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there's that.
Not really possible anymore, Microsoft has been forcing updates since Windows 10.
I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?
I vote for angry mob with convenient access to an active volcano.
Who needs a volcano when woodchippers can park right in your driveway.
Remember to load them feet first kids!
*jots down 'load kids feet first into chipper'
Wait, is Microsoft violating child labor laws, too!?
Same way laws are enforced now? Each country passing it and the companies needing to comply to continue operations.
Why are they force to comply right now if the laws don’t work?
You’re missing the point.
The ICC only has power in countries that let them have power. If a given country doesn’t feel like doing that, the ICC has precisely zero recourse or ability to enforce.
What should citizens in countries like that (which may or may not be dictatorships, single-party states, theocracies, or some other restrictive, un-democratic, and/or xenophobic form of government) do?
Yes and I’m saying each country should implement it themselves so that we can reach global saturation. That is what I meant in my original response to op.
You are taking what I said out of proportion. Obviously we need Superman to enforce a global ruling hand over mankind.
Space force?
And what happens when the country in question is one that doesn’t care that much about the ICC, and responds “make me”?
To wit: The United States has famously refused to subordinate itself to the ICC
Arc is weird but pretty good once you get used to it.
DuckDuckGo is good if you want a minimal browser and don’t really care about extensions
Brave is OK if you want a slightly more private version of Chrome
Honestly though, just use Firefox.
Brave seems like a superb option.
Opera seems like a reasonable option, I guess, but I'm not sure if it has the market share to actually be seen and controversial if there was something to be controversial about.
I'm not sure I would. Edge is trash, it keeps shoving the AI bullshit, all the MSN news stuff, ads for cheaper shopping, all in your face when you first start up. While you can turn it off, it gets annoying doing that every time you reinstall or spin up a new VM. Chrome, for all its faults, is a lot less annoying freshly installed.
Nope. But hey look, the Democrats are coming to take your guns!
Why yes Microsoft, I am totally a European in Europe right now...
It 's wild to think that some people might VPN to the EU for basic rights.
People do that China 🤷♂️
Coming to a Western country soon near you!
You wouldn't pirate basic human rights, would you?
Isn’t that the point of your guns? Why are all these less free states more free?
An electoral democracy, we choose those that make the laws. Due to the 2 party system we don't have many options for when they fail to do what they claim they will.
No, we're a republic.
A true democracy would empower each of us to do as you say, but that's not what's here.
Our republic is quite corrupt due to greed and power, as well... Not as corrupt as many countries out there, mind you, but it's alot worse than it should be.
We're starting to resemble a corporatocracy in many ways these days as a result of all this.
'Republic' is about whether or not you have kings. Democracy is as opposed to autocracy, with a few other *cracys between those poles.
America is a democratic republic; the United Kingdom is a democratic monarchy. The US has a broken democratic system that does a really bad job of electing the most preferred candidate. It's almost cheeky to call America democratic.
Free to be shot at and advertised to
Obviously since it's happening for us Europeans
See: Regulatory Capture
For $100,000 the US Congress will tell you!
Idk, how come we need to fund your wars?
Hey, 'Peans, how come you think a country larger than your pseudo continent is a homogenous hivemind?
E: what Ive learned from this comment is that apparently, all europeans share 1 single trait, which is just utterly horrid reading comprehension
Because Europe is so fucking homogenous that we stared 2 world wars just because we agree so much
They agree with eachother so much in eastern Europe that there are no wars and everyone just hugs. Oh wait.
If you think saying "that nation isnt homogenous" means "all other nations are homogenous" you probably shouldnt weigh in on adult convos
Erm... Larger by land mass? Yes. Larger by GDP? No. Larger by number of inhabitants? No. Larger by amount of vastly different cultures that somehow get stuff like this done whole very decidedly not being a hive mind? Also no.
It is certainly more diverse lol
The US is smaller than Europe in size of population and in area.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don't need to worry about it personally doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about how it affects others.
So apparently having consumer-friendly laws does in fact lead to better products. Cool.
Perhaps the USA and other countries should follow the EU's good example on this.
Yeah this isn't as good as it sounds, the other 5 continents are still stuck with all of this garbage.
Skill issue, what's stopping other countries from creating better laws?
The problem is that showing enough politicians money effectively makes you become the government. There's minimal chance of a law being introduced unless a rich person or corporation backs it, and EU laws would interfere with their shady business practices.
Lobbying, at least here in the US.
Not big enough to force companies to make large changes. The US is, China and India are. But what about Australia or New Zealand? Or any of the individual south american countries? Too many changes, microsoft or one of the other big players will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
If they already have a version compatible with EU law, they will just roll it out instead of removing an entire country from their market.
Would be a bad business move otherwise.
Of course, only if the laws don't force even more restrictions.
will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
That would be wonderful. They would no longer be able to enforce their patents in countries they don't trade in; GNU/Linux users worldwide will have (patent infringing) access to the Australian/NZ version of whatever
It would suck for the games I play that need windows, but it would also give more incentive to those to port them to Linux
Valve is a lot more consumer friendly to begin with, though. Don't get me wrong, they did heaps of bad things too, but compared to Microsoft?
I'm not gonna hold my breath on this one
Thank god for Europe!
You know what I mean. Sheesh.
I do understand - but as a society we're working to remove unnecessary gendered terms from our language. I believe in doing similar with religious terms.
Language is important. If we're thanking a deity for the work of government it's both minimalising the work of elected representatives and exclusionary to other cultures.
In this moment, you are euphoric.
Windows 12 Euro Trash Edition and Windows 12 Red Blooded God Anointed American Edition. If either crosses the EU boarder the computer will explode killing everyone in a 10 meter radius.
Alright. What about Windows 12: European cringe edition?
There sort of already is https://www.howtogeek.com/...
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that's the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
My laptop gets the fun experiments, my desktop plays the games
Same except in reverse lol. My laptop is out of date fedora because I'm lazy to update since it's a youtube/twitch machine pretty much. My desktop gets the bleeding edge + games.
I may have lost my sound card drivers, but at least I've not got to put up with windows (don't worry I've got an external soundcard)!
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can't get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it's almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven't found anything that doesn't work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect. My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
I'll check this out ty
You need 2 GPUs (essentially) for GPU passthrough to work correctly. I gave it a go once and it never worked correctly. Absolutely right for non GPU apps though, or with some VM's, older games.
Same, but I switched back today. DaVinci Resolve doesn't support AAC audio on Linux, even on the paid version (literally everything uses AAC audio). The closest thing to any kind of usable photo editor is photopea, and that's web only.
Linux is just unusable for media creation, unfortunately.
I really wish the affinity suite would make a linux version.
Same. That would help a lot.
Unless your media is made in Blender, then it's pretty good. Inkscape has been getting nicer, too.
But that's about it, yeah.
Only in EU/EEA countries. So us here in Gilead America are SOL at the moment
At last. This is actually good news for Windows itself because people will be more inclined to use it again if they don't see ads, aren't tracked, can set any default browser etc.
So it's good for both users and Microsoft.
Sometimes these corporations just can't help themselves by adding trash and they need a mommy figure to force them to stop doing that which ultimately benefits themselves.
I’m genuinely worried if hell is okay, are you guys getting a tad chilly?
IT Sysadmin from the non-profit circle checking in. It's actually unseasonably warm right now.
I can't speak for the pharmaceutical IT, Medical IT, metal fabrication IT, bakery IT, education IT, or embedded systems IT circles, though. Might be getting nippy over thereabouts.
Based EU.
EU to the rescue once again.
Does this also mean Google will let me uninstall Chrome from my Android device? Or is this only about PC's?
How do they verify that I'm in the EEA? Do I need to sign up through a VPN when I register Windows or do I just specify an EEA country during the install?
It seems in some cases when it comes to protecting you from industry practices can only be handled by government agencies.
I will do whatever it takes for my non-European windows install to behave like a European windows install.
If I got rid of ads on windows if be much happier with the OS and would not have such a grudge against using it.
I can’t wait until benchmarks are run on the two versions side by side to see if it impacts battery life and or performance.
If you used Linux your OS wouldn't be trying to subvert your well being by casually manipulating you while you are just trying to get shit done.
Please don't force Linux as a religious zealot forces their way on other people. Some like it, some are in the fence and some will never use it for wherever personal reason.
Proud mint user here, don't get me wrong
I totally get that people are tired of seeing Linux recommendations but..
Pointing out that there is an alternative without the same issues is hardly "forcing Linux as a religious zealot forces their way on other people"
That's a bit hyperbolic imo
If they are specifically dissatisfied with the way Windows is working and will always work and feel up to try to modify it to work less shitty they are probably exactly the group that should switch to Linux or pony up the money for a Mac.
I've used Linux for years but always come back to Windows because I've never had a completely perfect distro, even the first party stuff. I already dick around with software at work and hardware at home. The last thing I want is to spend another dozen hours figuring out why copy/paste stopped working and how I go about fixing that on a forum from 2006.
Nope I just buy supported hardware and software that works without difficulty which I've been doing since 2003.
And now you've gone from 'Install an alternate OS' to 'Buy a new computer that supports an alternate OS'.
We get it. Linux exists. I doubt there is a single Lemmy user who is unaware that Linux is a thing. We are already using it or have valid reasons to not be using it.
Some of us require Windows to do our work.
Until you can't game at 4k, 120hz, with an HDR high resolution display.
But, from the most recent time I tried it: Display scaling doesn't always work (150% UI). 2x worked fine, it is supposed to work fine with wayland, but wayland didn't seem to like nvidia drivers. Many anti cheats don't work. WoW didn't work (though it should based off the wine compatibility reviews). Bluetooth had issues (didn't reconnect on startup I think).
While I'd love to change to linux, every time it's always been inferior for my personal use cases. As windows gets worse, and linux gets better, eventually the time will come when I switch. But for a great many people, the support simply isn't there yet.
I don't get why Linux users don't understand that they are part of like a 1% bubble. 99% of people would not enjoy Linux. I'm a Pop Os user myself and seeing what I have to do sometimes to get simple everday things to work that work right out of the box in Windows and MacOs is rediculus. No normie would ever figure out what to do even when googling. Linux is an exclusive Pc enthusiast operating system. Even the beginner friendly distros are not "dump proof" enough for the regular person. There is no use in advocating it on every problem post from Windows or MacOs. You're doing no one a favor with it.
Its actually more like 2.x% and its a lot higher in some segments like developer. The fact that the most popular phone OS on the planet is based on Linux is trivial proof that you can make an experience that is desirable and usable by the majority of people based on the same technology.
That said android isn't really that simple if you come to it there is actually plenty of complexity both in terms of interfaces that vary between manufacturer and features. If we were to consider for instance Linux Mint running cinnamon I wouldn't say the complexity of Mint/Cinnamon is higher than android.
Apple announced RCS support is coming
This is Microsoft... What's the catch?
Most likely, they have "N" versions for some time for EU regulated countries
Ya, then just install the N version. It's not some weird region locked thing. If you tell Microsoft you don't have a product key, you'll get a list of windows versions you can install, and you just select the N version.
How do I trick my computer into thinking I'm in Europe?
Better yet, trick your local legislator to get equivalent regulations implemented.
Obligatory Mullvad > Nord
If it's how the did the earlier EU versions (no inbuild IE or media player), there'll be an N version of windows for the EU market.
What is the point of Microsoft keeping Edge when most people avoid it?
Enough don't avoid it.
It allows them to scrap more data and push their web services. It also gives them leverage in web standards completion. The have a browser and user base that they can diverge from chrome.
With the revelations coming out due to the court cases. Microsoft might be (or at least aiming to) get a cut of Google revenue like apple gets for safari users. Google is probably very happy that edge (which is 99% chrome) is the default in most desktops.
I usually use Firefox, but sometimes a website won't work on it, for example so web apps like Adobe Express just refuse to work. In these cases I use Edge, not Chrome anymore. Between the two, Edge has better privacy and has some really nice features. It also works better with my work stuff thanks to integration with 365.
What I'm going with this is that there's definitely a user base for Edge. Between it and Chrome, I'd go with Edge any day. Firefox still beats both though.
Did you mean Firefox?
Its chrome.
Powershell
I'm desperately waiting for a reputed company like Samsung to ditch windows and introduce linux pre-installed laptops
I wonder if this also applies to allow uninstalling Safari browser on MacOS, and allow other browser engines into iOS devices instead of WebKit Safari clones.
Yeah! How about allowing uninstallation of Chrome from Android?!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Microsoft has published a new blog post which details how Windows 11 will be made compliant with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) in the European Economic Area (EEA.)
To be compliant, Microsoft has made several changes to the OS, which now allows users to choose between providers and uninstall most in-box apps.
The company describes these changes as specific to Windows 11 PCs in the EEA, so it's unclear if users outside this area will be able to utilize these functions.
These changes will rollout in preview on Windows 11 in the Insider Beta Channel in the coming weeks, and will become generally available early next year.
The EEA is an economic and political union that spans 27 countries in the European and surrounding area.
In the case of Microsoft, this means not forcing users to use Edge or Bing, and ensuring the OS is interoperable with other services where necessary.
The original article contains 488 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
All for a $12 a month subscription!
This is cool and all, but why do we always stop at Microsoft? I think it would be more impactful in 2023 if we can uninstall Safari from iOS devices and Chrome from Android?
They probably mean your browser/search engine settings will actually be respected, instead of what sometimes happens now where you can have set everything to not use bing or edge but still certain MS software will launch a search in edge, using bing.
Yep, they said a software update is coming next year.
Probably part of their legal appeal to get themselves removed from the Digital Services Act... something they're a niche player in the messaging services industry... Never mind the fact iMessage has billions of users sending a quarter million messages per second.
Didn’t we do this already back in the 90s with IE bundling??
What happens if you uninstall edge and you don't have any other browsers?
How do you reinstall it or install a different one without a secondary computer?
So it won't force Secure boot anymore?
...what happened? Did someone in upper management realize, it would be more expensive to suck?
It does specify the European economic area for (EEA) for these changes. Looks like I'm living in Europe ;)
Wow, are we getting Windows N again?
Imagine being forced to give what consumers want due to European legislation.
Only in the EU right? Also what's up with RCS?
What about RCS?
I wonder whether Microsoft makes enough money on analytics and ads worldwide, minus Europe, to split off a separate dev team. I hope not, but I think they do… Please choose the easier, objectively better option and just make these a checkbox for everyone, windows.
I wonder if this affects any of the telemetry systems they use to send user data back to the mothership (Microsoft servers)? I haven't looked into it in a while but there used to be a powershell script to disable a lot of it in the registry.
This sounds to good to be true.. What's the catch? A monthly subscription??
I wish Apple would let me uninstall Apple Music and stop media keys opening it by default.
On iOS, when you delete a system app, all you're doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
On Android, when you disable a system app, all you're doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
In both scenarios, the app is still retained. You've only removed it from your home screen and anywhere it may appear in actions.
Removing built-in iOS apps won’t free up storage space on your device.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/100567
Because the app is still functionally there. This has been the case since Apple introduced the feature in iOS 10.
On MacOS?
Just in time for Windows 10 going out of support. I guess the next time Windows nags my wife about updating to 11 I can tell her to go ahead.
Huh, so not in Switzerland?
Adesso è godopoli
Holy shit I am going back to Windows then!
This is terrible news for everyone like me that wants to incessantly tell people to switch to Linux. While I'm here, do it. Any distro other than Ubuntu and it's deranged derivatives please.
I mean it's a good thing they are doing this, but I was kinda hoping they would go full suicide like unity or musk's twatter. It's also too little too late. They should allow straightforward telemetry disabling.
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I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
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