stop asking for a karma system

3 years ago by awesome_person to c/lemmyshitpost

Signtist 189 points 3 years ago

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STRIKINGdebate2 88 points 3 years ago

Yes. It can also trick you into thinking a reactionary opinion is actually a popular one. For example in my country, ireland, there's been a few incidents were people of different nationalities have done unsavoury things caught on camera. This usually results of the comment section of the ireland sub to have a debate about whether there's too many immigrants in the country. Whichever side gets more upvotes is widely perceived to have "won" and bystanders will in turn adopt that position.

I don't think I've ever changed an opinion of mine to go along with the hive mind but the karma system has definitely discouraged me from commenting things because I would been downvoted into oblivion. It's not worth getting into arguments when you can clearly see people not siding with you.

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Steeve 43 points 3 years ago

How does this system solve that? Comments still have vote counts and reactionary comments still make it to the top of threads, there's just no visible count of total aggregated votes.

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Hopps 12 points 3 years ago

You're correct, the entire system is already in place. The only thing that is currently missing is adding up all of someone's 'karma' from their their posts and having it shown on their profile. Some of the apps already have this implemented since it's easy to incorporate.

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orphiebaby 3 points 3 years ago

That's not the only thing that's missing. A total upvote count on my profile page wouldn't be the problematic element that Reddit has. I would welcome a total upvote count on my profile page.

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ChocoboRocket 19 points 3 years ago

I'm fine being downvoted to oblivion by some anti-good astrotufing campaign, but it's getting honest, legitimate opinions slid down and out of discussion that feels risky

I'm definitely anti right wing, but that doesn't automatically make the left right about everything.

What is true about both sides is that some people just wanna look for a fight/argument and dehumanize their political 'other'. It's easy dopamine and righteous rage that drives engagement in every human.

Any good faith comment that points this out in an argument and has credible examples is always worth its salt.

I actually like finding out I'm wrong or my information is incomplete/outdated. I don't care for unfounded opinions in myself or others regardless of how they make me feel!

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Touching_Grass 11 points 3 years ago

It did the opposite for me. I see those threads in r/canada or other posts and I'd comment trying to get downvoted because I hated the circle jerking and manipulation of threads with cliché comment chains intent on being dog whistles. I hated karma and somehow ended up with a stupid amount of it.

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Lith 8 points 3 years ago

The big thing for me is that I've seen a lot of people say they've had their accounts stalked and harrassed for saying really mild things. With how many times I've read "I read your post history and..." over even the most mild disagreements, I absolutely believe this happens on a regular basis. Dropping an obviously unpopular opinion feels like an easy way to become a victim.

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riskable 8 points 3 years ago

I've had my account stalked! Right in the middle of it I switched from Kbin to Lemmy (so I could try out the apps) and had to inform my stalker about the new account.

Frustrated and annoyed at having to look for my posts in many different places, they seem to have given up 🤷

This is a clear win for the Fediverse! I was able to switch instances and get subscribed to all my previous communities in no time at all while this doubled up stalking efforts 👍

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can 4 points 3 years ago

Whenever someone said they checked my post history I immediately considered it a victory and moved on.

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Touching_Grass 2 points 3 years ago

Yea there's some psycho's out there. I picked a few up. Nothing really crazy from them and surprisingly most of them had poor infosec so I was never too concerned that they were anything to worry about. Really emotionally invested people who don't like when they read things they disagreed with

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gimpchrist 1 point 2 years ago

That's how I lost my three accounts and I have completely given up

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generalpotato 7 points 3 years ago

100%. I’d even be ok with getting rid voting mechanisms all together. The comment and responses to it should be indicative of it’s quality instead of some vague numerical value which somehow makes it better than the other because more people voted for it based on their own understanding on how a vote works.

Discussions shouldn’t be about what’s popular. Social media has corrupted our ability to have intelligent discussions because non popular viewpoints aren’t entertained anymore and people with non popular viewpoints don’t want to contribute due to the retaliatory nature of likes/votes.

It’s eroding our ability to reason and we need to stop it.

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EdibleFriend 1 point 3 years ago

Interesting. How do you know this? That the bystanders looked at the upvotes and decided their opinion on immigration based on this? Were there polls or something?

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YolkBrushWork402 1 point 3 years ago

I agree

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kwking13 1 point 3 years ago

Ah, c'mon downvoters...gotta keep some sarcasm alive at the same time!

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HawlSera 1 point 3 years ago

That and the "hivemind" mentality Reddit encoruages often means you get power-tripping mods banning people, not for doing anything wrong, but for "Dissenting with the group"

The average user is probably banned from a quarter of the site over shit like this.

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47_alpha_tango 33 points 3 years ago

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ericisshort 22 points 3 years ago

I mean, it kind of does mean something small, which is credibility. Karma wasn’t ever a flawless way to determine credibility, but it was a decent first pass, like an online ocular patdown.

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Rodeo 11 points 3 years ago

Uh, no. Lol

It maybe showed popularity. But it was frequently manipulated.

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Buddahriffic 7 points 3 years ago

Example: replace this entire comment with a portion of a highly upvoted comment below from this same thread, combine that with an official experience that only shows one or two top level comments and those copies can also get lots of upvotes. Reddit was rife with these kinds of bots.

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DarkMatter_contract 3 points 3 years ago

In ideal situation downvote should not be used for disagreeing but topic relevant and quality. In ideal situation…

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Shardikprime 6 points 3 years ago

Bro I've never for a second thought that gallowboob had any credibility whatsoever and the motherfucker had like, all the KARMA

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ericisshort 5 points 3 years ago

You’re completely missing my point. I’m not saying you should worship the guy, but he has more credibility than a troll with negative karma or a 3 month old tshirt bot with a few hundred karma from plagiarized comments.

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Vespair 1 point 3 years ago

Hi I'm necrocommenting this old comment, sorry.

You're conflating post karma and comment karma. Post karma is shit and almost everyone on reddit with super high post karma is awful. Comment karma however is often a decent measure of credibility. The problem is people conflate the two, or worse, inappropriately value post karma over comment karma.

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schmidtster 20 points 3 years ago

The biggest issue in some places was, even if your opinion is valid, if it didn’t fit the group speak, it would be downvoted regardless.

It wasn’t really a great indicator if your opinion was popular or not, it was more if it got that groups niche.

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blanketswithsmallpox 12 points 3 years ago

wasn’t really a great indicator if your opinion was popular or not, it was more if it got that groups niche.

... That's called popular opinion lol.

Of course it matters where you say something. It's literally no different than IRL.

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schmidtster -2 points 3 years ago

If I’m on Reddit it’s to Reddit, it’s not to change my vocabulary and content to fit each individual subreddits niche.

Imagine being in a country bar and a table only wants to talk about and listen to rap music. The rest of the place shouldn’t have to bend to their will or create some safe place for them.

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nuke 7 points 3 years ago

There's an old saying to "read the room". It's the same online and offline. The reaction you get depends entirely on the audience present.

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awesome_person 16 points 3 years ago

Yes, people definitely did. Maybe not a majority but a lot

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Sendpicsofsandwiches 15 points 3 years ago

That and also many subs wouldn't allow people to participate if they didn't have a high enough karma

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ArbiterXero 15 points 3 years ago

That was used as a crude spam filter against bots and new accounts

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Diprount_Tomato 13 points 3 years ago

Karma did limit where and how frequently you could post

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BembelSommelier 12 points 3 years ago

And that makes sense to some degree. I used to mod a large community on re**it and usually rage bait/flaming/troll accounts got filtered out by our automod which was set to 50 karma iirc. Most communities that use a karma filter have it set really low so farming a lot of karma is really unnecessary

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nuke 6 points 3 years ago

Y'all act like that can't happen on Lemmy. The total score is already visible via API. Nothing's stopping a community from running a bot that auto removes anyone below a threshold. It's entirely possible right now to write that code.

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darthelmet 7 points 3 years ago

I didn’t. If anything I enjoyed the downvotes sometimes. Your downvotes mean nothing

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FlyingSquid 6 points 3 years ago

I always thought it was amusing if I got into an argument with someone and they downvoted each of my comments before replying as if that meant something. Dude, I already get that you don't agree with me. Why are you bothering?

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PipedLinkBot 2 points 3 years ago

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Rodeo 1 point 3 years ago

That Rick quote is like the wojak where he's got the smirking mask but is crying behind it. It always cracked me up when I saw people use it. If the downvotes mean nothing, why mention them at all?

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Shardikprime 1 point 3 years ago

Good to remember I guess

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InvaderDJ 6 points 3 years ago

Did people actually change what they’d say based on whether or not they thought they’d get upvotes?

I'd argue anyone who did that probably had nothing interesting to say and/or didn't actually care about what they were saying. Same with the people who complained about downvotes.

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blanketswithsmallpox 6 points 3 years ago

/me watches some dude post hateful contrarian bullshit on a light hearted comic.

"It's not even funny and this shit comic comic has been done before. Quit self promoting on reddit bitch!

Edit: Why am I being down voted!? Fuck you know it's true! Mods temp banned me apparently. I don't care I'm never going to block her so I can always down vote!"

Somehow everyone who commented on his parent comment has every comment in their profile down voted for the last 50 comments...

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Shardikprime 2 points 3 years ago

Oh I remember those, wasn't that the brigading train?

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hoodatninja 5 points 3 years ago

I think you are envisioning something a little more intentional/thought out than it is. We do this socially all the time. You gauge the audience and you adjust what you’re going to say to better fit it. Or to upset them if you’re trolling but that tends to be more deliberate.

I bet if you took your comments from a hobby sub/forum/group/etc. you frequent, and then one from a meme community, you will find your tone and rhetoric are very different. And again this is not a bad thing! You are doing and saying what is appropriate for the context. It is very natural to do. But the point is you probably don’t sit down and calculate your exact wording. We just sort of do it, and our goal is generally to “fit in“ or get some affirmation from the community we are participating in.

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obi_one 3 points 3 years ago

Yep. I remember someone asking on a hiking sub about a backpack. It was a very fashionable and heavy canvas pack. I hike a good bit and have never seen a pack like that being used by others in the trails, so I said that I wouldn't recommend that pack. I think it had like 30-40 down votes. I never gave my opinion on a pack again.

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Shardikprime 1 point 3 years ago

Bro you are welcome to elaborate here I mean what can be so controversial about a fucking backpack

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obi_one 1 point 3 years ago

Yeah right. I learned my lesson the first time. No more opinions from me.

:)

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SapienSRC 1 point 3 years ago

Genuine question, and I don't mean any disrespect, if down votes are intended to mean people disagree with you, and you don't know these people, why did you care so much that you won't share your opinion on things again? I've never understood this way of thinking. Maybe I'm just weird but I for the life of me can't imagine caring that much about what strangers think.

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Shardikprime 1 point 3 years ago

: C

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Lenins2ndCat 2 points 3 years ago

I think the karma system on reddit had a real effect on behaviour. What you often found it did was cause people to write comments for the audience of voters instead of for the person they're responding to. This eliminates personal interaction between users and turns everything into soapboxing. You stop having real conversations with each other, instead it becomes about pandering to votes.

This then also causes people to vote based on this as well. "You're not saying what the group wants to hear" downvote is the voting behaviour it creates.

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Shardikprime 2 points 3 years ago

This so frigging much. People are not having conversations, they are posturing.

It's like going into a debate prepared for discussing ideas, and the other debater is going for discussing emotions.

Truly fucked up and patently divisive

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Lenins2ndCat 5 points 3 years ago

Yeah it's annoying. Things are far more pleasant when people are actually talking to one another, it creates a more human interaction and you don't get the kind of bad-faith engagement associated with trying to pander to votes. People self-censor far less as a result as well, aside from instance rules.

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Shardikprime 2 points 3 years ago

The weirdest part is the interactions, I swear to God people is hell bent on their conversations being pre-tainted with assuming the worst possible take on the others side.

It's like people can't no longer have different thoughts on the matter without going full civil war in the comments

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Selmafudd 2 points 3 years ago

The amount of deleted downvoted comments makes me think most people at least change their minds afterwards. Which to me is the real weird part, you hide your opinion so you don't lose useless internet points..

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mryessir 1 point 3 years ago

I agree but when a sincerly comment does not strive how I expected i delete it and take the thought about it to myself.

Obviously I am wrong, then.

You are right.

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raltoid 1 point 3 years ago

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FlyingSquid 1 point 3 years ago

I certainly never have changed what I said based on popular opinion. If someone convinces me I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but just people downvoting me because they don't like what I have to say? Fine. That's their prerogative.

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HawlSera 1 point 3 years ago

Yes, and there's a bit of psychology at play

Reddit just shows one score on the post, it doesn't show the exact upvote/downvote number. It's easy to just say "Well everyone else voted this up/down, so I guess I will to", it encourages group think, by design it's meant to be an echo chamber.

Imagine you have a divisive opinion, at the end of an hour you have 9 upvotes and 11 downvotes, so it's at negative one. You're gonna think you're being ignored, and others will think you're unpopular and just downvote you not reading it because it's "What the group is doing"

Reddit is fucking nightmare

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dmmeyournudes 108 points 3 years ago

how do people on this site not realize that the points next to your posts affect how your posts are sorted and are literally the exact same system as reddit? am i just so blind that i can actually see the numbers next to my posts or is everyone here just trying to be so anti-reddit they'll make up bullshit that isn't reality?

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Stoneykins 68 points 3 years ago

They are talking about karma as a thing you could collect, point totals for all posts added together displayed on your profile. Not the voting mechanism itself.

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nuke 52 points 3 years ago

Lemmy also has this and everyone's point totals are visible from the API. If you're not seeing it, that's because your client is hiding it, not because it doesn't exist.

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Rentlar 21 points 3 years ago

The nice thing is though, it's different for every server and from every server, so unless you follow a convention to say the user's homeserver vote total is the definitive amount, then there's no true karma.

My beehaw account is a great example. I made some comments on Lemmy world before it defederated. World and shitjustworks users can still vote on the old comments but they won't count to my home total, and from Lemmy.world my vote total won't change for that account significantly from that point. The vote totals on this lemmy.ca account will be different from lemmy.ca, beehaw.org or lemmy.world's perspectives because the servers defederated can't see the karma I earned on each comment on the other server, while lemmy.ca can see both.

Downvotes are also disabled on beehaw, so any downvotes won't affect my total at all but could show on other servers.

Lastly, there are some servers with 40000 accounts and 3 active users (who post and comment), vote botting is feasibly a thing. Imagine if I made a Lemmy server at Rentlar.org and as the admin I made 20000 accounts who upvote me every where I post. I'd be the first user on Lemmy with 1M total votes, but would that mean anything other than I'm a somewhat tech-savvy narcissistic loser? No.

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yeather 4 points 3 years ago

Wait why is downvoting disabled on beehaw?

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stalfoss 14 points 3 years ago

Lemmy also has that bro. Some clients display it and some don’t, but when I click on your name I see that you have 510 total comment score and 0 total post score.

https://i.imgur.com/NxSyRDg_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand

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Stoneykins 7 points 3 years ago

I believe the devs have said they aren't going to make it officially visible, which is all I care about. If you want to make value judgements on people based on a number so bad that you had to find a client that shows it, more power to you.

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Stoneykins 5 points 3 years ago

I hadn't thought about it until just now but IDK if that number is accurate. My instance doesn't have downvotes, so if you view my profile from lemmy.one it might look like I have a higher karma than if you look from lemmy.world, I'm not sure.

Take it all wirh a grain of salt I say

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Shardikprime 2 points 3 years ago

It's that important tho? There had to be a reason why it isn't the norm

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thepianistfroggollum -1 points 3 years ago

It's probably just lazy coding. Or it's a road map feature.

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dmmeyournudes -3 points 3 years ago

It wasn't important on Reddit. Even there you could only lose 15 points on any downvoted comment and you couldn't lose points for posts. Karma was just a way to measure how frequently you interacted in an additive way. It's only real utility was for mods to bar new accounts from posting without getting come karma from other places first. and Lemmy definitely needs something like that in the near future for moderation, but they have to fix the bug with the total first.

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dmmeyournudes 5 points 3 years ago

And that system was irrelevant on Reddit just like it is here. You still have a total karma number in the API, every app I have used shows it, even if it is broken right now. Only the default theme on the web page hides the number. The only people who saw value in karma are the people who farmed it and the people who bitch about the people who farmed it. Either way, making posts that get a lot of upvotes specifically to get a lot of upvotes happens here just like I does on Reddit so idk what this OP is trying to say because they're farming karma lol.

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Stoneykins 18 points 3 years ago

There were many subreddits that did not allow participation unless someone had a karma over a certain threshold. For many of them the threshold was pretty low, only meant to stop brand new accounts and trolls, but still.

Additionally, the "people who farmed it" often did so because a reddit account with a high karma score was literally worth money to adspammers and people running bots.

The karma system contributed to what made reddit bad.

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dmmeyournudes -17 points 3 years ago

You only lost 15 karma on any mass downvoted comment and 0 for posts. The only person who cared about people's karma was you dude.

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Beliriel 8 points 3 years ago

Karma is the total of upvotes and downvotes a user receives over time not just single posts and comments. It leads to discrimantory moderation and users tend to whore themselves out for upvotes to boast.
Ever heard of gallowboob?

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dmmeyournudes 7 points 3 years ago

and this site has that exact mechanic in the API.

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Goldmage263 3 points 3 years ago

It wasn't a 1upvote=1karma system on Reddit. Mostly, Lemmy does it better by the community caring less and not having posts limited if a user is under a threshold.

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Swedneck 5 points 3 years ago

Arguably one difference is that on lemmy it's just a straight up sum AFAIK, while on reddit there are some algorithms attached to tweak things so you can't lose vast amounts of karma from a single shit comment and such.

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dmmeyournudes 1 point 3 years ago

you can only lose 15 points for a comment and 0 for a post. the only thing they do is they jitter the total points to fight botting. its designed to make karma a representation of content given, not necessarily that you have a high hit rate.

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LexiconBexicon 1 point 3 years ago

The initial point of the karma system was to push to the top of discussions relevant information while the shitposts were put at the bottom. It works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

I think, honestly, politics is the biggest issue here when it comes to the karma system and it doesn't work well at all within it, but for many other things it's actually a decent system and a good way to find relevant information in a thread without reading through 500 pages on a forum or something

Just my 2 pennies

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Esjee 0 points 3 years ago

Reddit bad lemmy good, you are not allowed to say otherwise.

Edit: Bruh people on lemmy don't get sarcasm either 😭

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BruceTwarzen 2 points 3 years ago

You can on reddit say what you want. If you really care about the number next to your name you're just a victim

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Esjee 1 point 3 years ago

I never changed my opinion just so I get more karma on reddit either.

Lemmy's system is no different from Reddit's and my original comment was sarcastic. I've noticed sarcastic posts without /s get downvoted more easily on Lemmy for whatever reason.

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ChunkMcHorkle 4 points 3 years ago

There's a lot more good faith here. On Reddit you could safely assume anything ridiculous was meant sarcastically, and usually be correct. Here, the sarcasm is not assumed so your comment is more likely to be judged as having been spoken sincerely.

Which is actually really nice, even if it gets a comment misunderstood from time to time. Reddit just feels shitty and hate-filled anymore. But Lemmy feels a great deal more emotionally neutral, and if I dare say so, human -- which is to say, not attempting to increase emotional involvement and generate clicks by being provocative and antagonizing by design.

EDITED for clarity

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bloodyknuckles 0 points 3 years ago

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skullgiver 81 points 3 years ago

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morrowind 7 points 3 years ago

Pretty sure karma isn't properly federated since nobody cares about it

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Coelacanth 3 points 3 years ago

You are correct. The calculation itself is bugged, and any time you delete a comment it resets to 0.

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hierophant_nihilant 2 points 3 years ago

That's what I fucking did. Reddit was shit not because of karma, but because of hivemind and owners. Lemmy is not protected from that either, but at least users potentially have more power here

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Imgonnatrythis 1 point 3 years ago

You can, but there's absolutely no reason to think the community population will ignore it, once it has its own value the karma whores will arise. People literally sell high karma accounts for real money. You can't ignore the karma farmers when they are all around you and you can't ignore the fact that it shapes real user behavior toward hive-mind dribble. Keep karma to the Gods, it is not for mortals to toy with.

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rr7 74 points 3 years ago

Literally seen 0 people asking for karma system

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utopianfiat 29 points 3 years ago

Also karma on Reddit is basically irrelevant. The only place it matters is in automoderation removing posts and comments for users under a certain level of karma.

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ananesiken 28 points 3 years ago

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Goldmage263 6 points 3 years ago

People will do strange things rather extensively to watch arbitrary numbers go up. Especially children.

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Karyoplasma 3 points 3 years ago

Watching numbers go up is basically the whole gameplay loop of an ARPG. It's fun.

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utopianfiat 5 points 3 years ago

Getting upvotes maybe, but nobody pays attention to their aggregate karma.

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HelloHotel 0 points 3 years ago

Not to be mean but, ritch folk dont watch their bank account directly, they have analog wasy of mesuring, like if they can buy "X" without renting.

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Dr_pepper_spray 2 points 3 years ago

Posting comics on Reddit, I found it a quick way to see how well I made something and what people generally liked. Eventually though I started to become a little skeptical of the numbers, and hated having to play this game where those numbers might be better when posting at different times and different days. I couldn't help but feel like some of them were bought initially to heat, or boost their posts.

I started to absolutely loathe those numbers, but I don't know what you can do to replace them.

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Beliriel 9 points 3 years ago

Which is honestly freaking dumb. Sure you can do it with a big community but it will speed up the hivemind and alienate new users and frankly did nothing to curb bots because bots just farmed karma elsewhere on a sub where it was open by spamming posts and comments. And then went right back on the "threshold" subs.

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fugepe 1 point 3 years ago

You need Karma, in so many subs. Not only comments karma, also posts karma and all that stupid shit

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ProvokedGamer 3 points 3 years ago

I once wanted to post a meme on r/memes. My post got removed because I needed a lot more karma (my estimation was that I needed 1k each for both comments and posts but it wouldn’t actually tell me how much I needed). I REALLY hope that doesn’t appear here. It just blocks people from making and sharing content with others.

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HelloHotel 0 points 3 years ago

Why are u getting downvoted?

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Draconic_NEO 2 points 3 years ago

Probably people from Reddit defending the idea of a karma system, they always say that they're made up internet points but the fact that Karma restrictions exist and are enforceable proves that wrong.

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freecandy 57 points 3 years ago

I mean, upvotes are counted and tracked so how is that different than karma?

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Selmafudd 20 points 3 years ago

Shhh let them just enjoy it for now

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PeterPoopshit 15 points 3 years ago

On reddit, if your karma is too low you're not allowed to participate in most communities.

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freecandy 16 points 3 years ago

I mean, it's a super low bar.

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HelloHotel 1 point 3 years ago

If i was, say interested in r/choosingbeggers, id annoy the crap out of any small ungated sub with "I agree" till I get my 100 karma.

Update: i don't remember writing this

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ram 2 points 3 years ago

There's currently nothing stopping a mod from creating a bot to do the same. Maybe it's already a thing.

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voidMainVoid 5 points 3 years ago

You don't have a score.

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freecandy 3 points 3 years ago

https://ibb.co/q98R6sv

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Liz 1 point 3 years ago

I guess it depends on what interface you're using.

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gamer 52 points 3 years ago

Doesnt lemmy have a karma system already? I can see up votes on my posts, and a sum total on my account page.

Or do you mean something else by “karma”?

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awesome_person 21 points 3 years ago

some third party clients sum up the upvote count of your posts to make a count turns out the lemmy api does send it to you

but lemmy itself will never get a proper karma system in the ui as has been said by the main people working behind it multiple times

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MentalEdge 14 points 3 years ago

The apps aren't "summing it up", while the lemmy webUI does not display it, it's perfectly accessible via API.

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gamer 10 points 3 years ago

Wow you’re right. I’ve gotten so used to Memmy and Wefwef that I didn’t realize the main site didn’t have it lol

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dmmeyournudes 7 points 3 years ago

but you just said lemmy has the exact same karma system reddit has.

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hoodatninja 4 points 3 years ago

Kbin has “reputation” unfortunately. I like Kbin enough to ignore it and I’m hoping others will do the same.

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CMLVI 5 points 3 years ago

I use it the same way I did on Reddit; it's a decent gauge in how willing I am to engage with that person. If their history is littered with downvoted posts, then I'm less likely to engage because it's more likely they're being inflammatory on purpose.

Karma systems don't make places worse; the value placed upon them by the users does. It's not meant to be a counter for how liked you are, it's supposed to be representative of how you interact with the community; bad karma for bad interactions. But people use downvote as a disagree button, and people spam posts cause "big number make feel good". Good idea, difficult implementation given how humans work.

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hoodatninja 1 point 3 years ago

I agree that’s what it supposed to be, but nobody really treats it like that. Downvotes are treated as a “dislike” button, despite the fact that it should be “this does not contribute meaningfully.“

Regardless of what we want, that’s just how people operate.

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

Karma usually doesn't work because it is used, as you said, a like button and not a quality button. Disagreeing with the majority is considered a violation.

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Xanvial 3 points 3 years ago

hmm, checked the API documentation of lemmy itself, this seems able to get a person comment/post score data https://join-lemmy.org/...

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hitwright 12 points 3 years ago

Reddit has a karma sum which is used to deny access from posting altogether. Here if you say something unpopular, you don't get the dopamine hit from upvotes, but you're also not silenced, unless the mod explicitly bans you.

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the_kalash 16 points 3 years ago

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hoodatninja 6 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I found people always made a bigger deal out of that than it really was. I think folks just assume other people are having trouble even though they didn’t personally.

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schmidtster 0 points 3 years ago

Some places had a thousand karma before being able to comment or post, that’s not an easy hill to climb, especially if you say the wrong thing somewhere and people take offense to it for no reason.

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hoodatninja 4 points 3 years ago

I love how in these examples it’s always “for no reason“ and yet we never see the context.

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hoodatninja 14 points 3 years ago

While I agree unpopular opinions often get shouted down, i think people often forget that sometimes what they consider an “unpopular opinion” is unpopular because it’s abhorrent or just wrong lol. Not every comment/idea is valid and deserves to be entertained.

Being anti-vax is unpopular in a lot of circles and I am perfectly happy with seeing those comments downvoted/ removed and the users banned.

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Diprount_Tomato 2 points 3 years ago

Why banned? The downvotes are definitely deserved but why TF ban them on a sub about a topic not related to vaccines or medicine?

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hoodatninja 5 points 3 years ago

Why are you changing the parameters of my example lol

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Scew -11 points 3 years ago

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nuke 11 points 3 years ago

Nah fuck antivaxers. Cry about it

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hoodatninja 11 points 3 years ago

I understand what you’re trying to do, but I am not interested in playing this game.

On a sidenote: I saw Oppenheimer recently as well, but let’s not shoehorn quantum physics into a discussion to make your point seem more elevated than it is.

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Makeshift 2 points 3 years ago

I’d argue you still can get that dopamine hit.

Even if the numbers don’t carry elsewhere in a meaningful way, seeing the high positive number next to your post still means that other people agreed with/liked what you said on that particular post/comment. And that alone can give a mild dopamine hit.

Less useful for bots trying to farm rep for nefarious reasons, more useful for real people who can feel the joy of a moment.

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dmmeyournudes 0 points 3 years ago

How are you not silenced exactly like you would be on Reddit? People downvotes posts and comments they don't agree with exactly like reddit, but here if the admins disagree they defederate entire instances over it. Hot page is completely useless compared to reddit, so only the most upvotes posts from the most popular subs are visible, and comments have the exact same issues reddit comments had. Nothing about this system is mechanically different from reddits system, baring how votes get totaled because of federation, (also the hot sort is uses).

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GenderNeutralBro 2 points 3 years ago

Where does it show the sum total? I don't see that in my profile or yours. Maybe it's instance-dependent?

Either way, upvotes serve the same purpose here so I think the incentives are the same.

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hoodatninja 0 points 3 years ago

Lemmy doesn’t but Kbin does.

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kamenlady 5 points 3 years ago

Color me confused ...

I'm on connect for lemmy and also have a total count on my profile page.

Actually, isn't it up to the client? The dev can decide what to feature in the profile page. The fact is, every user has points for posts and comments. Maybe they are just adding the numbers up? Afaik Reddit had some other maths behind the karma count

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hoodatninja 1 point 3 years ago

Are you using a third party app?

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chakan2 52 points 3 years ago

I'll dissent. I like the karma system. It gives me a quick read out of who's a troll and who isn't.

I don't care about post karma so much, but the comment karma was an interesting stat.

Edit: An important caveat. We MUST keep downvotes visible. MUST. Having just a positive score breeds absolute insanity.

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Furbag 49 points 3 years ago

Karma was pointless. Nobody cared at all. Upvotes and downvotes are fine and useful to be able to see both. Karma is a worthless system and encourages spamming low-effort garbage memes and endless reposting of the same shit.

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mryessir 47 points 3 years ago

I marked your name.

This ain't a shit post.

Once there is a karma system in place I'm gonna vote you down to oblivion.

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awesome_person 15 points 3 years ago

deal

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Pinklink -3 points 3 years ago

Is that like the new “cope”? I can’t keep up with you young wipper snappers and your hip lingo

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Excrubulent 5 points 3 years ago

It means "it's a deal", and I'm pretty sure it's been around for a long time.

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squidman64 2 points 3 years ago

https://imgur.com/a/aljrb6B

Some mighty big words for someone with only 97 karma

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Imgonnatrythis 1 point 3 years ago

How so? I use connect and wasn't aware of a karma system

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UrPartnerInCrime 1 point 3 years ago

Connect for Lemmy on Android has the karma system in place already

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mryessir 1 point 3 years ago

Give me the IP of the provider and i'm make him disappear. Thanks.

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kuro_neko 2 points 3 years ago

127.0.0.1

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mryessir 1 point 3 years ago

Man, he's behind a firewall. Can't get past it.

He backattacks immediately and my pc turns off.

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Evilsmiley 44 points 3 years ago

Not one time on reddit did i consider or care about my karma

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HiddenLayer5 36 points 3 years ago

I'm against any sort of gamification on social media. Not even achievements/badges or awards. That is the start of dark patterns and addictive design.

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STRIKINGdebate2 31 points 3 years ago

I agree. The karma system really pushes group think.

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snarf 18 points 3 years ago

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Crampon 6 points 3 years ago

This.

This. So much this.

Tell my you're X without telling me you're X

What a strange way to admit you're insert unpopular political axis

While the comment can be funny. It's not funny every time on every post.

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hoodatninja 3 points 3 years ago

God I just got flashbacks to “edit: thanks for the gold, kind stranger!”

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STRIKINGdebate2 3 points 3 years ago

"This. So much this" and "take all my upvotes" are the two worst in my opinion. They both literally add nothing to the conversation, they are not funny and they are certainly not original. If you agree with a comment just use the fucking the upvote button.

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ProvokedGamer 1 point 3 years ago

I feel like the only time “this.” is reasonable is when you add something meaningful after that statement. Whenever I say “this.” under a comment, I don’t just leave it by itself. I add some extra stuff that I think would be useful or important to the conversation, or I expand on the previous commenter’s point. Never say “This.” by itself.

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Voyajer 5 points 3 years ago

It's one of the more annoying things I hope we don't inherit from reddit for that exact reason. Even worse when the joke isn't even funny.

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HawlSera 28 points 3 years ago

I like being able to say what I want without being banned by a power-tripping mod, or downvoted into irrelevance by a circle jerk. We need to be able to point out that the Emperor isn't wearing clothes.

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Ogmios 27 points 3 years ago

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Shardikprime 4 points 3 years ago

Jeerybooree intensifies

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iforgotmyinstance 27 points 3 years ago

Did karma ever stop anyone from posting their racist, hateful shit on the other site?

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trymeout 24 points 3 years ago

Karma system was a horrible feature on reddit.

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0Xero0 23 points 3 years ago

For the karma whores out there, if you want a karma system so bad, go back to reddit where you belong. - Ex-Karma whore

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macintosh 23 points 3 years ago

Not to mention the karma system on Reddit created some of its most annoying users. Would be terrible to bring it here.

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ikiru 23 points 3 years ago

I always hated those subs that prevented you from posting unless you had a minimum amount of karma.

I used reddit for nearly a decade, but sometimes I wanted to make a throwaway for a specific, non-trolling purpose but was unable to do anything because of stupid, worthless karma.

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EatMyDick 22 points 3 years ago

Imagine being so addicted to social media you let a number change his you act. Absolutely sad.

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jungekatz 21 points 3 years ago

I wish lemmy does not implement it ! I am here all day now !!

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Rentlar 1 point 3 years ago

I'm right there with you panCat! Leave Karma totals out of Lemmy UI and major apps! It just encourages karmaw-horing behaviour.

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mindbleach 21 points 3 years ago

Saying what you mean can be impossible when every sub demands "respect" or "civility" instead of honesty, accuracy, and appropriate behavior.

Sometimes telling someone to go fuck themselves is entirely appropriate.

Sometimes explaining to someone why they're being a moron is entirely appropriate.

Yes, you can navigate those situations with G-rated kum-by-yah language, and you can eat yogurt with a fork. But demanding anyone do that is aggravating fucking nonsense.

Intense moderation can create a forum where there's never reason to poke someone over what an asshole they're being - but that's not what anyone's doing, here. They're mostly protecting trolls, by refusing to comprehend what trolling is. It's not when you say dumb shit you don't mean and people get mad at you, like some playground argument with one smirking child in a shouting match about the make-believe. It's people spreading disinformation with textbook fallacy. It's emotional abuse with "do you still beat your wife?" level manipulation. It's not deep. It's neither hard to spot nor hard to call out.

But what's currently forbidden is calling it out.

Insisting people take it in good faith is failure. That's exactly what trolls demand. It is the only way trolling accomplishes anything, ever. If they just said dumb shit nobody believed, there'd be no problem. But the appearance of a sane argument, and the trappings of "debate" around their infuriating horseshit lies, create false legitimacy. It helps abusive dishonesty spread. It is actively ensuring that whatever "free marketplace of ideas" is supposed to filter out total garbage, can't.

And anyone who falls for them going 'punishing me would only make me stronger!' is incapable of dealing with a smirking child. They're just fucking lying. It's not deep, or hard to spot. Call their bluff and see what happens. The answer will apparently blow your mind.

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nexussapphire 6 points 3 years ago

I just fucking say it and tbh, I ended net positive most the time. Wasn't even a concern of mine but I can see how it might have influenced others.

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markon 21 points 3 years ago

The Karma system was never a great system, I thought. Due to group think on Reddit, at times people get downvoted for no good reason. I think it's good to have a little diversity and not just have a model. I like Lemmy so far a lot and I think it is getting better and better. This is exactly how red it should have been, but they ruined it, of course.

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voidMainVoid 1 point 3 years ago

I would go one further and say that there shouldn't be downvotes. That way, "good" posts and comments still rise to the top, but you don't have somebody's comment sitting at -60 because they pissed off the hive.

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cantsurf 7 points 3 years ago

But what's the actual problem with the ability for posts to have negative scores? Are we trying to prevent people from feeling the unpleasant sensation associated with THE DISAPPROVAL OF OTHERS!?

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ram 4 points 3 years ago

But what’s the actual problem with the ability for posts to have negative scores?

It incentives self censorship that turns sites into echo chambers. e.g. Reddit

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SocialMediaRefugee 2 points 3 years ago

If a comment bothers you ignore it or reply with why you disagree

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Dinodicchellathicc 2 points 3 years ago

Have you ever seen r/KarmaRoulette ? You can get mass downvoted for no reason

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LexiconBexicon 1 point 3 years ago

I like that

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SocialMediaRefugee 1 point 3 years ago

Reddit used it to brigade not just shitposts but anyone who went against the groupthink. The great leader says you must not express counter-revolutionary thought.

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Hazdaz 21 points 3 years ago

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cantsurf 25 points 3 years ago

Oh no, a few downvotes and you get buried in the tens and tens of other comments!

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Kolanaki 9 points 3 years ago

This is why I feel it's best to sort by New Comments. If discussion is the thing you're looking for, this will push anything newly posted or with a new reply to the top without taking into account votes, so only the actual threads with people talking about stuff are up there. The comments can also be sorted in ways that the votes don't mean jack.

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fugepe -14 points 3 years ago

the lgbtq instances

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STRIKINGdebate2 9 points 3 years ago

Are the LGBTQIA+ subs really that bad though? They seem fine to me

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Kolanaki 3 points 3 years ago

Like all places, it's not so bad if you agree with them. But generally the folks who don't agree with that community are bigots, so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

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vrighter 2 points 3 years ago

There was a post about proportional representation in media. I pointed out that if a group of people are a minority, then it's perfectly normal for them to also be a minority in the media, if we are to represent reality.

I was genuinely participating in the discussion and wasn't using harsh language or anything.

I got a message from a mod saying I am wrong, and if I write another post trying to discuss or defend my point of view, I will be banned for lack of empathy.

Those places are toxic as fuck

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Hazdaz 0 points 3 years ago

Yeah you have to love sites which advertise themselves as being open to discussion and yet they are anything but that.

These people just want an echo chamber. It's funny too because these same people have been accusing right wing groups for years of living in an echo chamber where no new ideas ever enter. And they are totally correct in that. Right wing subs on Reddit are toxic as fuck (I assume if any exist on Lemmy, they'd be the same). But these typically left wing groups online are almost as bad. God forbid you have a perfectly valid point.... nope. They won't allow it.

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EndlessApollo 0 points 3 years ago

"They won't even let me spew blatantly bigoted talking points on their forums, how toxic of them!"

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alex_02 1 point 3 years ago

They're extremely toxic. For a community that supposedly accepts everyone no matter who they are, they sure contradict themselves often and why I have no respect toward most of the communities. People are awful. It is worse in the Autistic communities. Never felt like I belonged cuz everyone treated me like garbage.

EDIT: The downvotes just proved my point. Yes I will say it loud and proud... the lgbtq+ communities are fucking awful and toxic. Most autistic people I've met on the internet have been even worse. Sorry but just because you're autistic doesn't give you an excuse to be a dick and I'm both Autistic and bisexual.

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Viking_Hippie 3 points 3 years ago

a community that supposedly accepts everyone no matter who they are

"Bigot" isn't a protected or indeed persecuted group, so you can stop playing the victim.

The downvotes just proved my point. Yes I will say it loud and proud... the lgbtq+ communities are fucking awful and toxic. Most autistic people I've met on the internet have been even worse.

"If people don't like what I'm saying, it's proof that I'm right" is literally the kind of thing deranged bigot Alex Jones keeps saying.

Doubling down on your bigotry won't make you any less wrong and bigoted, it just makes you look desperate for acknowledgement from other bigots.

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LillianVS 1 point 3 years ago

Daily reminder: Discussions are fine, bad opinions are fine

What isn't fine is personal attacks, harmful or derogatory language and deliberate misinformation. Be respectful when discussing hot topics. If it devolves further then the post might be locked.

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Macropolis -17 points 3 years ago

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Pinklink 5 points 3 years ago

But LGBTQ hasn’t had a letter added to it in like, 10 years? Maybe longer? You one of them old school bigots

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Macropolis -1 points 3 years ago

I don't consider myself such. I thought it was 2S(two spirt) is a first nation term. Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, asexual or ally. You probably could have just googled "2SLGBTQQIA+" and seen it's the term has been used by Justin Trudeau and others. Accusing me of bigotry for using an updated term is probably easier.

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fugepe -16 points 3 years ago

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Flygone 19 points 3 years ago

But isn't there a karma system? At least I'm seeing points on posts and comments and that's what karma is/was on Reddit right?

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Hyggyldy 17 points 3 years ago

Can I ask for a Korma system? I'm hungry.

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fne8w2ah 17 points 3 years ago

Anyone who demands a karma system on Lemmy should honestly stay tf out of here.

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bumblebrainbee 17 points 3 years ago

I'm not understanding how lemmy doesn't have karma when there's still the upvote/downvote function and profiles still mark how many votes you got for comments and posts.

Edit: Someone asked what app I'm using but I can't find the comment. I'm using Connect for Lemmy

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soulifix 17 points 3 years ago

If Lemmy's karma system can stay as it is, without adopting the Reddit way of how it handles it, I guess it's fine. Personally, I'd like to at least have some place to go to, that doesn't have likes, doesn't have karma points or anything. Because it just encourages people to groom themselves to say things, that'll garner the most attention. It invalidates your way of thinking and makes you check back on scores to feel validated.

I hate that I can't go almost anywhere anymore, without seeing some stupid form of a karma points system. It serves no purpose. Reddit's is worse because they tie your account to it. Don't have enough? Welp, too bad, can't post here. Got downvoted to oblivion? Welp, too bad, gotta wait some 10 minutes and fill a stupid captcha check.

If Lemmy can avoid that, then fine, I guess.

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MasterNerd 15 points 3 years ago

I've been using Connect for Lemmy, and it lists all your points on your profile. I didn't even realize that wasn't included on the website until right now.

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HelloHotel -1 points 3 years ago

What does that mean

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ryannathans 8 points 3 years ago

The fediverse has karma, it's just not written on the website in your face

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UrPartnerInCrime 6 points 3 years ago

Connect for Lemmy is an android app. Based on Sync for Reddit which shutdown unfortunately. Both 3rd party apps for the websites.

Sync for Lemmy is on its way though, which is the original creator u/jdawson and should also have the karma system.

All these people talking about not having a karma system look a little foolish since I'm literally down voting them as I read it.

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HelloHotel 3 points 3 years ago

Yes, it does exist but without the culture attached or reddit's unknown sause to decouple it from being an immutable fact in the way stats are, however the point seems to make it meaningless.

Is it a game to min-max
a social credit score
a currency
an aproximate guess if your human
or an arbitrary number.
EDIT: almost forgot, a plesant number that you see when you come back, thanks @UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works

Its what we make it

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UrPartnerInCrime 2 points 3 years ago

It's a little number that makes me generally feel happy when I check back later on my comments

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FirstMajesticComet 14 points 3 years ago

Karma sucked ass on Reddit. Essentially people could ban you from participating because you pissed too many people off even though you didn't break any rules.

Karma count is an ass kissing metric, high karma shows that you kiss people's asses for upvotes, low or negative karma shows that people dislike what you say which is absolutely ok. People having different opinions vs going with the group is the difference between a healthy platform and an echo chamber.

By the way Trolls and malicious actors who that system is targeting should be dealt with directly. If someone's posting hateful transphobia instead of downvoting their acount they should just be BANNED from the community or the platform as a whole, keep bad people out of the community.

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Metal_Zealot 14 points 3 years ago

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Diprount_Tomato 3 points 3 years ago

Upvotes and downvotes maybe?

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MedicPigBabySaver -2 points 3 years ago

They don't. Stop thinking otherwise.

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Metal_Zealot 5 points 3 years ago

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variants 2 points 3 years ago

Poe's law

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Crashumbc 13 points 3 years ago

But a Karma system doesn't impact your ability to post? Or 99% of other poster's opinions of you...

(Disclaimer: Don't care either way, never considered someone's "karma" at all, ever.)

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randon31415 11 points 3 years ago

Obligatory xkcd;

https://xkcd.com/1911/

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mryessir 2 points 3 years ago

gem (Gem) research.

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HelloHotel 2 points 3 years ago

xkcd [(link)](https://xkcd.com/1911)

xkcd

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CandyRushSweetest 11 points 3 years ago

Agreed :/

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B3_CHAD 11 points 3 years ago

Yep,this way we have less bs/repetitive posts just trying to farm karma.

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shinigamiookamiryuu 10 points 3 years ago

In a way I agree. In my experience with Reddit, the closest you'll get to posting somewhere with zero downvote risk is in r/CasualConversation, and even there, there have been times I've had fate handed to me because of some form of bad influence. There was one question where I basically got called a narcissist for, of all things, asking for advice on what makes an apology good, and ended up getting the short end of the karma stick.

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EdibleFriend 9 points 3 years ago

What....what is the number under the post I'm making right this second? What is the overall number when I click on my profile?

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Kolanaki 3 points 3 years ago

On Lemmy.World the only numbers I see tracked in my profile are the total posts and comments I've made.

IIRC, someone mentioned Kbin actually shows a total updoot count on your profile. Lemmy does track it, but it's up to the instance/app you're using whether it's displayed anywhere.

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EdibleFriend 2 points 3 years ago

I have a number on my profile now that I look? I never really paid that much attention to it? I don't know if it's weekly or what? It's 74. I've had single comments almost reach that. I don't know what I'm looking at lol

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Kolanaki 1 point 3 years ago

Where are you seeing it, exactly? And how are you browsing it?

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EdibleFriend 1 point 3 years ago

I was looking on connect. Now that I am home on my computer there is nothing.

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obinice 8 points 3 years ago

I said what I wanted anyway, the karma system didn't affect your ability to say what you want. But yes, the karma system wasn't perfect, nooo way.

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Citizen 8 points 3 years ago

I never liked reddit Mods ,they had too much power.

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Borkingheck 8 points 3 years ago

What's karma, i was on reddit for 12 years and never looked into it.

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Imgonnatrythis 14 points 3 years ago

It's a system of points where if you make enough ad revenue for reddit u/Spez sends you a dick pic as a sign of appreciation.

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Burninator05 7 points 3 years ago

Oh man. I would have Karmawhored harder if I had known that was a reward tier.

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Dawkinsisgod 2 points 3 years ago

I earned 7 dicks!

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BarterClub 8 points 3 years ago

In my experience with having Karma as a mod. If the person had negative karma they were a troll or a really bad person. Giving us the ability to make a community feel welcoming.

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FreeloadingSponger 8 points 3 years ago

What do you mean, no karma system? There is a karma system.

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KalloFox34 7 points 3 years ago

No idea why we'd want it...

Even on Reddit, it didn't do much.

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imPastaSyndrome 0 points 3 years ago

Lol ok

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GustavoM 7 points 3 years ago

You are in for a hell of a ride when you figure out that folks STILL downvote randoms for self-validation purposes, even if theres no "punishment" for the other user.

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OtakuAltair 13 points 3 years ago

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Sackbut -2 points 3 years ago

I disagree. It does the same thing as the karma system. It's about punishing people with opinions outside of the norm, for the purpose of furthering engagement. It makes every conversation an argument, not a discussion.

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GustavoM -4 points 3 years ago

Downvotes/dislikes are a great way to weed out misinformation and low quality content

That simply does not happen. Even so, the report button exists for dealing with both situations -- you don't need a 2nd option (which can be easily manipulated, considering there is no age gap and/or restrictions -- even your toddler can flag your post as "low quality content"). In other words... that is why we can't have nice things.

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Kolanaki -1 points 3 years ago

If anything, voting in either direction keeps content samey, bland and generic so it appeals to a wider audience. Basically, enforcing the same enshittification happening because of capitalism, but for bullshit numbers that don't even allow you to buy shit.

But, uh... That is most certainly not what the report button is for.

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JackbyDev 6 points 3 years ago

Do people really consider karma to mean the sum of your comments' and posts' points and not the points themselves?

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Stoneykins 5 points 3 years ago

Yes? I don't think I've ever heard the vote totals on individual posts and comments referred to as "Karma", just upvotes and downvotes. In my experience Karma is exclusively used to describe the total on peoples profiles. "Karma farming" is increasing that number by posting lots of different low effort posts, not when someone posts something because they think that one post will get many upvotes, as an example.

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JackbyDev 3 points 3 years ago

It's a genuine question, because I still check my comments and their scores. Big numbers make me feel good, small numbers make me feel bad. (Not losing any sleep over it or anything.) So I could still see people who make posts they know will get a lot of points being referred to as "farming karma." The same way you might accuse someone of "fishing for compliments" on social media. If that makes sense.

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Stoneykins 1 point 3 years ago

Out of curiosity, how many years ago did you first start using reddit?

I'm wondering if this difference in perspective is based in what year someone joined reddit. Like an older redditor vs newer redditor thing? Maybe?

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JackbyDev 1 point 3 years ago

I started using Reddit in 2014.

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Kolanaki 6 points 3 years ago

I never paid attention to the karma and would say what I fucking wanted to anyway. The votes mean nothing to people who don't sort by the dumb shit algorithms.

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Orangutanion 3 points 3 years ago

I love that this was the first comment for me even though it had -1 net votes

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Kolanaki 4 points 3 years ago

Sort by New FTW

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Rakust 6 points 3 years ago

This post really narwhals my bacon

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otacon239 0 points 3 years ago

It rally speaks to the new system and community that this comment landed at the bottom of this thread. No offense to your comment. It’s just a case in point haha.

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Carion 6 points 3 years ago

Reddit new update will trade karma for food

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puddlexplorer 5 points 3 years ago

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BlitzKrieg2552 3 points 3 years ago

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professor_entropy 2 points 3 years ago

10239 post score 540 comment score https://old.lemmy.world/u/awesome_person@lemm.ee

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Lazerbeams2 5 points 3 years ago

idk, I say the same stuff regardless. Sometimes people like what I say, sometimes they don't

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YoBuckStopsHere 4 points 3 years ago

Bravo

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TheKarion 4 points 3 years ago

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CoolBeance 4 points 3 years ago

I agree but my dude this meme format is for being intensely sarcastic about things you hate, not saying how much you actually love something

It's cool though

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thalience 4 points 3 years ago

If saying what you want to say tanks your karma, the problem might be you and not the karma system.

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Domille 4 points 3 years ago

But I want my sweet sweet pointless internet points

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DontMakeMoreBabies 4 points 3 years ago

Kbin already has something called reputation buried in the profile.

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Barzaria 3 points 3 years ago

"Shitty dick triples, triple dipped in shitty applesauce" could not exist in karma world. Really think about that.

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ekZepp 3 points 3 years ago

I can finally denounce the lizard people conspiracy to steal my catfood!!! Damn you lizard people! Buy your own cat food!!! This is mine to eat!!!

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MonkderZweite 3 points 3 years ago

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Blazingflames6073 3 points 3 years ago

It's also here. Just hidden normally.

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hglman 3 points 3 years ago

Fork the code, add Karama, and run an instance.

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comcreator 3 points 3 years ago

Karma needs to stay on reddit

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tsonfeir 3 points 3 years ago

What are these upvotes? Here, take one.

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FlyingSquid 2 points 3 years ago

Other than karma to post limits, I've never understood why people gave a shit about fake internet points.

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captainjaneway 2 points 3 years ago

Its original intent was to filter good vs. bad content. Prior to karma/voting systems, message boards were just a list of the most recent posts by anyone. With a voting system, people can decide what content best fits the community's purpose. If I post a dog image on a cat forum, people can downvote the post so newcomers aren't seeing dog pictures on a forum about cats. Without karma, you're relying entirely on moderators to manage that. It's basically crowd sourced moderation.

Karma has other issues for sure. It can be manipulated with bots. People tend to use it to say "I don't like this opinion" and not to say "this opinion is within the domain of this forum".

All of that being said, I believe karma systems should be hidden from the users. Jerboa is an Android app for Lemmy and it shows the karma count. I don't prefer that. I like being able to vote, but I don't want to feel the bias of "big number == good opinion". But I think karma is a good system for helping moderate the content that shows up in a forum. It's a democratic way of managing content. But it probably has room for improvement.

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Larvitar 2 points 3 years ago

I think it was always the same psychology of making a number go up makes people get dopamine or something. Otherwise, it was a system to try and filter out bots used for astroturfing that I felt didn't really do a good job. There were always plenty of karma farming bots that would literally just copy and paste a different comment to create a fake post history.

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FlyingSquid 1 point 3 years ago

I guess I do get a bit of a dopamine hit when someone likes an individual post of mine, but beyond that, like an overall "what do people think of me in terms of how many posts I get upvoted?" Couldn't care less. But sure, someone telling me they liked what I said enough to make a tiny bit of effort to tell me that, that's nice.

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30isthenew29 2 points 3 years ago

You always could do that.

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wtry 2 points 3 years ago

We have one, it's just not visible on official clients.

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TroubleFait 2 points 3 years ago

Oh I thought this was talking about videogames.

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circuscritic 2 points 3 years ago

Let's meta

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PatFussy 1 point 3 years ago

Everything below this line is a hate thread

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Speiser0 3 points 3 years ago

Comments aren't always sorted by up and down votes. You moron!

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PatFussy 1 point 3 years ago

😞

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ProvokedGamer 2 points 3 years ago

Downvoting because the line got too high

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Resol 1 point 3 years ago

It's so useless that I actually feel better having that minus symbol next to the number in any post/comment that I make. Because I love the felling of shame. Yeah, I'm f***ing weird.

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persolb 1 point 3 years ago

Downvoted out of spite /s

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CombatWombatEsq 1 point 3 years ago

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PunnyName 1 point 3 years ago

You can still say what you want without karma...

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Crass_Spektakel 1 point 3 years ago

While I don't need a Karma System I would like to have some statistics to brag about or at least to look at.

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migvelio 1 point 3 years ago

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traveler01 0 points 3 years ago

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circuscritic 0 points 3 years ago

Fine, but can we at least federate with Meta?

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nbafantest 0 points 3 years ago

Only nerds cared about positive karma. Real good comments always had downvotes.

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ryannathans 3 points 3 years ago

Downvoting because real

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JazzAlien -1 points 3 years ago

Pebis

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illusoryMechanist -1 points 3 years ago

How about an opt-in system? Ie, you don't see it unless you specifically go and turn it on

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bloodfart -2 points 3 years ago

The form determines the function and use of a thing.

Remove votes from activitypub.

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Milk_SDF_Possum -4 points 3 years ago

Then it already failed it's purpose as people seem to be more offended by anything than when they were on Reddit.

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Sackbut -12 points 3 years ago

Let's get rid of downvotes next.

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dmmeyournudes 7 points 3 years ago

thus defeating the purpose of link and comment agregation.

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Stoneykins 3 points 3 years ago

Not really. Some instances have upvotes only, and they still work perfectly fine as link and comment aggregators.

It mostly prevents dogpiling and certain types of brigading to not allow downvotes. I haven't seen any downsides personally.

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dmmeyournudes 0 points 3 years ago

No instance has no downvotes, they just hide the button in the theme like subreddits would do too. And nothing about this system prevents people from mass downvoting or upvoting a post because of group think, ask me how I know.

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Stoneykins 4 points 3 years ago

If you downvote my comments they do not register on my instance. It is more than the lack of a visible button, the downvotes do not federate.

Edit: to be clear, this post is on lemmy.world, so I can be downvoted here (even though I won't see it unless I browse from lemmy.world). And from lemmy.world you can appear to downvote things on instances without downvotes, but you are basically just downvoting the local copy of the thing. The downvote never gets sent through, it just lives on your instance.

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Sackbut 0 points 3 years ago

Not really. I'm on another Lemmy instance that doesn't have it, and I really like it. Not sure why people are upset at my comment.

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dmmeyournudes -1 points 3 years ago

Because if the only way you can interact with a post is by voting up or voting down, then a few problems occur. First, any instance or app that lets you use the downvotes now has a stronger voice than anyone who isn't using the downvotes. Second, it means users can not push down bad content without a consistent supply of new content to vote over it, a massive problem for small communities. And third, it fragments the community making the service harder to use.

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lemmyshitpost

@lemmy.world

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Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!

Rules:

1. Be Respectful

Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...

2. No Illegal Content

Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...

3. No Spam

Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...

4. No Porn/Explicit

Content

-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...

5. No Enciting Harassment,

Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts

-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...

6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.

Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)

Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

go to feed...

lemmyshitpost

@lemmy.world

login for more options

Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!

Rules:

1. Be Respectful

Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...

2. No Illegal Content

Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...

3. No Spam

Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...

4. No Porn/Explicit

Content

-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...

5. No Enciting Harassment,

Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts

-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...

6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.

Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)

Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

go to feed...