"Pilot had to dive aggressively to avoid midair collision over Burbank airport."

a year ago by Gates9 to c/lemmyshitpost

xkbx 189 points a year ago

Finally, the freedom to have sick plane crashes thanks to deregulation 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅💥💥💥

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WolfmanEightySix 11 points a year ago

Well it cost money and held yous back.

/s …Justin Case.

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Rivalarrival 7 points a year ago

Just to put this into perspective, here's a visualization of the flight data. The two aircraft were never on a collision course. They slightly violated a 5-mile separation requirement: their closest point of approach was 4.85 miles. The pilot did need to respond to the TCAS alert, but that alert was very conservative.

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neatchee 8 points a year ago

These conservative warnings exist for a reason, though. That being hundreds of lives at stake. What I think would be more interesting is to hear how often these types of events occurred before and after the layoffs at the FAA

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Rivalarrival 4 points a year ago

Agreed. The point of a conservative warning is to give plenty of time and opportunity to react without bouncing your passengers off the ceiling.

Fault for the loss of separation seems to be on the controllers. Not all separation incidents are the same, though. This one seems to be rather minor. By my estimation, the encroachment was a maximum of 264 yards, and the duration of that encroachment (without pilot or controller intervention) would have been less than 10 seconds. Too tight, yes. It needs addressed so it doesn't become a habitual violation that could lead to more severe encroachment by these controllers. But there was no real danger of bodily harm from this encroachment.

Fault for an overly aggressive maneuver is on the pilot. There was a risk of injury from that overly aggressive response. The pilot's actions elevated a minor, no-risk event to one that risked serious injury to the passengers and crew. But, he was following instructions from a device designed to improve aviation safety, and the nature of the warnings from that device, an over-response is much safer than an under-response. He has to trust his instruments, and his instruments (erroneously) told him to push the nose down, quickly, lest he hit another plane.

TCAS is designed and intended to reduce risk and prevent harm. In this specific incident, though, it seems like the TCAS-RA actually increased the risk of harm, by calling for an immediate action that wasn't actually necessary to prevent harm. Is there a way to improve TCAS?

I, too, would like to know how often TCAS incidents were recorded before and after the layoffs. Those layoffs definitely harmed aviation safety. But if someone were injured in this incident, I don't think I could point the finger at the controllers or lack thereof. This particular incident seems to suggest a shortcoming in the TCAS system.

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neatchee 2 points a year ago

Very thoughtful and informed reply. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

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slaacaa 138 points a year ago

This is very dangerous. Time to remove regulations for collision warning systems on airplanes, so dangerous maneuvers like this don’t happen in the future

Tap for spoiler

/s

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CatDogL0ver 5 points a year ago

Yeah, just let the pilots fly Tony Hawk freestyle. Time to get creative!

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MisterD 1 point a year ago

Time a different kind of fireworks.

The kind that only happens near airports. Hopefully, some of the billionaires who wanted this shit will be part of the fireworks

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callouscomic 135 points a year ago

Is gutting the federal government working yet? Is the swamp drained? Is the winning complete? Are my bigoted piece of shit nazi flag flying neighbors satisfied yet?

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Screamium 10 points a year ago

It's working for Russia

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Tuuktuuk 6 points a year ago

Uh, what? Something like 80 % of their economy is now government spending.

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Screamium 4 points a year ago

I meant getting Trump elected to sow discord and chaos in the US has allowed Russia to continue their war while facing fewer repercussions

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CatDogL0ver 3 points a year ago

Exactly. I don't say those things at work anymore because they are too many of them.

I can't help wondering if they are remorseful.

One thing I know is people don't like to be told. I stop correcting them. The more we point out their flaws, the more irrationally they will hold on to the false beliefs

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papertowels 10 points a year ago

A fascinating theory I read is that MAGA is making a big deal out of Epstein because it provides an off-ramp that lets them save face.

Legit I'm like "bruh, you're upset that your billionaire 'grab em by the pussy', 'accidentally' walking into the miss teen usa changing room, 'I'd fuck my daughter if she wasn't my daughter' president is on a list of billionaire sexual predators? I'm glad that something finally looks like it might stick to him but c'mon guys.

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SGforce 3 points a year ago

They will instead irrationality believe that it's working in their favour and be emboldened. They didn't reach their position by being rational. Don't let a bully tell you that you deserved it after he punches you in the face.

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notsure 91 points a year ago

...should we hire more tower administators, and look into the epstein files?....

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outhouseperilous 43 points a year ago

Nah, let's cut them and burn the evidence!

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Whostosay 11 points a year ago

Well hold up. I wasn't on that plane so actually yeah you're right.

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outhouseperilous 4 points a year ago

See!

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Whostosay 4 points a year ago

Empathy hard

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CatDogL0ver 72 points a year ago

Remind us who cut funding to FAA?

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bigkahuna1986 85 points a year ago

This is Joe Biden s fault. I don't mean he cut funding or anything like that, I mean he was literally flying the other plane. It was full of woke trans immigrants headed to Texas so Democrats can get more votes while simultaneously rigging the election.

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thermal_shock 27 points a year ago

Obama was copilot? Smoking crack in the back in his tan suit? With Dijon mustard?

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Alaik 14 points a year ago

Smoking the mustard and putting crack on the hotdog.

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thermal_shock 4 points a year ago

hotdog

why you gotta bring hulk hogan's skin into this?

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Dozzi92 9 points a year ago

Your response here is an excellent example of shitposting. You are the new moderator. Keep up the shitty work.

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burgerpocalyse 9 points a year ago

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theneverfox 3 points a year ago

Which time? In January or in Trump's last term?

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zelahdieliekeis 69 points a year ago

Fuck Jimmy Dore, he turned against the queers. Last I saw a video of him interviewing with some bad-faith transmedicalist harassing people at pride acting all innocent like "I'm just asking questions" - his loud mouth was good as 2016 was going down but of course loudmouths don't always know when to shut it.

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PolydoreSmith 25 points a year ago

Yeah Jimmy Dore fucks around with Alex Jones. They can both go to hell

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ZMonster 3 points a year ago

It just blows me away how many people are just responding to this without addressing it...

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rob_t_firefly 6 points a year ago

I had no idea who this person was until @zelahdieliekeis@piefed.blahaj.zone's comment prompted me to look into it. Calling out crap like this is helpful.

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prole 8 points a year ago

He's always been a grifter

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BenLeMan 3 points a year ago

That's why I stopped watching him in 2017.

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Gates9 2 points a year ago

Yeah I’m not a fan but his being directly involved merits the exposure

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ImminentOrbit 54 points a year ago

This ain't no shitpost.

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TeddE 9 points a year ago

You're right, but I don't think The Internet cares.

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ivanafterall 2 points a year ago

You have to admit it'd be pretty shitty to run into another airplane in the sky though?

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umbrella 50 points a year ago

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D_C 23 points a year ago

Because everybody on the plane shit themselves.

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Gates9 0 points a year ago

Anything about Jimmy Dore is a shitpost but which sub or whatever is this more suitable for?

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Rivalarrival 0 points a year ago

https://youtu.be/VTAUMP2le3c

Without pilot intervention, the closest they would have come would have been 4.85 nautical miles laterally, and at the same altitude.

With the pilot intervention, the closest they came was 4.85 nautical miles laterally, and 500 feet vertically.

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blackouttripleseven 43 points a year ago

stuff like this is why i'm lowkey terrified of flying also this isn't a shitpost

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Hudell 20 points a year ago

So you'd rather stick to the ground, where you can't dive to avoid an oncoming vehicle?

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RichardDegenne 14 points a year ago

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Dozzi92 16 points a year ago

Yeah, shitpost needs some better moderation. Shitpost has literally just become post whatever you want. And if that's what it is, I guess that's what it is, but the term "shitpost" to me had always been someone coming and derailing serious threads with nonsense opinions, unrelated pics, etc. So silly trolling.

This post is a picture of a tweet about a near mid-air collision. Unless the second plane was just fucking around, shitflying as they say, I don't know that it qualifies for the low, low bar that is shitposting.

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mlegstrong 6 points a year ago

I can assure you some pants were shit on that flight

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OrteilGenou 3 points a year ago

Shitpantsing then

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RememberTheApollo_ 42 points a year ago

Put your fking seatbelts on. All the time.

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apftwb 35 points a year ago

TCAS is working overtime to make up for the years of neglecting the FAA.

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SpermHowitzer 29 points a year ago

TCAS warnings initially come up about 90 seconds before a potential collision, and a resolution advisory comes up about 60 seconds before a collision. A resolution advisory is obviously a serious situation, but it’s early enough that the climb or descent commands are really not anything crazy, not anything outside a normal climb or descent. No one should be hitting the ceiling if a tcas resolution is flown properly.

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Skunk 19 points a year ago

Once the flight smoothed out, Ulasewicz, who was traveling to Las Vegas, said the pilot made an announcement indicating the plane used software to avoid a midair collision.

Apparently it was right before catering service and well into AP flight. As a europoor I only master Airbus so I don’t know how a 737 is supposed to respond to a TA/RA.

Let’s wait for better sources than twitter and nbc.

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RaivoKulli 10 points a year ago

Do we have two pilots in here

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SpermHowitzer 2 points a year ago

The 737 won’t fly an RA on autopilot. We have to disconnect the autopilot and auto throttle and hand fly it. There’ll be a red box on the PFD that we just keep the pitch outside of, and we’ll be fine.

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Skunk 2 points a year ago

Ok, I just looked at the737-NG PFD RA and it looks different from what I know but I wasn’t aware that you had to hand fly it.

As the aircraft was climbing and with the yoke I guess it’s easy to push it a bit too hard and spill some coffee.

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DragonTypeWyvern 1 point a year ago

https://abcnews.go.com/...

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Skunk 2 points a year ago

More like an aeronautical source with knowledge about how things works in the industry, like https://avherald.com/h?article=52aca268&opt=0 or https://simpleflying.com/...

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exu 28 points a year ago

And that's why you always wear the seatbelt

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TheGoldenV 4 points a year ago

That’s right. That’s why I always wear mine. Even if I have to get up to go to the bathroom or grab something- I still wear it. Sometimes the flight attendants get mad when I cut it off, but I remind them it’s for safety and they usually get it.

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normalexit 23 points a year ago

Sitting in an airport right now. Great.

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Agent641 28 points a year ago

Can I have your computer if you die?

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normalexit 7 points a year ago

I won't be using them, ha.

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AugustWest 4 points a year ago

Well? Does u/Agent641 get the computer?

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normalexit 2 points a year ago

I made it through. Maybe next time.

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Cerothen 19 points a year ago

Relevant news story about air traffic control.

https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k

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Korne127 3 points a year ago

I was hoping it’s this and it was!

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Sergio 17 points a year ago

reminds me to catch up on https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/

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other_cat 16 points a year ago

And this is why I don't fly anymore. It was never an enjoyable experience (except takeoff. Wee!!) and now it's even less worth it.

Now I find myself having a depressed opinion on the lack of train options.

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DesolateMood 14 points a year ago

Don't planes have seatbelts? How did so many people manage to fly out of their seats?

Also friendly reminder to everybody that planes are still the safest mode of transportation by a significant margin

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shane 46 points a year ago

Planes are the safest form of transportation if you look at safety per km travelled. If you look at other metrics, like safety per trip or per travel time then they are less safe than busses or trains.

https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/184330

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mic_check_one_two 6 points a year ago

Last time I posted something about this, it was downvoted to oblivion. Glad to see that didn’t happen here. There are some statistical quirks that make this obvious once you think about it though.

Planes tend to make long trips, so anything measured on a per-km basis is going to be wildly diluted. Nobody is taking a plane to travel a few blocks. Something like a car will tend to make much shorter (but more frequent) trips, so the per-km stat won’t be diluted. But inversely, the per-trip stat will be diluted with cars, purely because they’re used much more often.

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Dozzi92 3 points a year ago

As with all statistics, you can make the numbers say what we you want. Planes can carry 500+ people, so an incident risks all 500 of those passengers; similar for rail, but not so much for the bus. And I think about bus and there's two different kinds of buses, IMO, the inner city bus that's on the road for hours, but doing few miles while making frequent stops. Not sure what a journey is then, whether it's stop by stop or from start to finish. And there's

So yeah, I dunno. If it's your time it's your time. I don't think any of these means of travel are "unsafe," whatever that means. But I'll still have a couple of beers before I get on the plane, because I'm not afraid of flying, but having a couple beers beforehand makes it better.

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ivanafterall 1 point a year ago

I’ll still have a couple of beers before I get on the plane, because I’m not afraid of flying..

Have to admit this is kind of funny.

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uriel238 2 points a year ago

Bus and Rail rules.

Motorcycles are for the young who don't want to get old.

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burntbacon 1 point a year ago

Everyone wants to shit on motorcycles, but it's as much a red herring as a meaningful statement. You might as well mention that horse riding is 25x more dangerous than motorcycles. And if you really want to get into the weeds, go look up how many motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle accidents, and how many of those are due to speeding or alcohol involvement. So if you don't drink, and don't act like a fool, you're really not all that badly off. Still worse than being in a steel cage for protection, but it's not only for people "who don't want to get old."

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uriel238 2 points a year ago

I was commenting on the vast difference in the statistical numbers. I have no doubt there are lots of steps that can be taken to decrease the risk of shortened lifespan.

But yes, we can safely engage in high-risk behavior (or in some instances like air racing pilots, come to terms that they will likely -- and preferably -- end their lives explosively and spectacularly). And then there's how James Cameron does super-deep submersible exploration vs. Stockton Rush.

My mother would not only climb up rock faces and summit mountains all over the Sierra Nevadas (and later in other parts of the world) but would lug twenty five pounds of old-school photography gear to show she did it and take pics of the astounding vistas. As a kid I went along with her sometimes, and encountered a few two many poison oak pushes, mosquito swarms, and stories about lost bits due to frostbite. I Belong To The City now (I belong to the night).

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SharkAttak 1 point a year ago

Planes have nonetheless huge advantages over the others, like if you have to travel hundreds of km, or across the ocean. Cruising through the Atlantic in a Greyhound would be wild, though.

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Marleyinoc 8 points a year ago

It sure feels like that margin has been shrinking in the last year or so.

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Dozzi92 2 points a year ago

So I don't know how true it is (or isn't). This wiki article gives a list of "all newsworthy" incidents since 2023. Got two (now three) this year. Five last year. Ten in 2023. But newsworthy is the key word. We have an incident like we did in DC, and in the immediate wake of it there were news reports just about anytime someone sneezed on an airplane (hyperbole).

I'll tell you, my eye test and feelings agree with you, but I just don't know how true it is. And it's hard to avoid getting political, but there is a vested interest in certain news circles to paint a bleak picture (don't take this wrong, I'm in favor of funding government agencies).

So yeah, fuck it, you know?

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AeonFelis -3 points a year ago

They have seatbelts, but for the most of the flight they are unused - you only need to buckle in during takeoff, landing, and if when encountering turbulence.

I guess there wasn't enough time to get all the passengers to fasten their seatbelts before the collision?

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18107 15 points a year ago

I wonder if you've ever listened to the part of the safety briefing before every flight where they instruct you to keep the seatbelt fastened throughout the entire flight.

Judging by the number of clicks I hear when the seatbelt light turns off, I'd say most people don't.

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rollerbang 14 points a year ago

Where I fly they also always advise to remain fastener regardless of no immediate warnigs. Exactly for situations like this - and others.

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theneverfox 2 points a year ago

Yeah, but people are still going to be using the bathrooms and such, even if you assume everyone actually obeys the rules

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dev_null 3 points a year ago

Of course, but it should be the 2-4 people who are actively going somewhere / in the bathroom, everyone else should have their seatbelt on.

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ivanafterall 3 points a year ago

Pour one out for the poor fella who finally got his turn to poop just before this happened.

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yamper 1 point a year ago

because of a few exception cases this is never going to work

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stoly 13 points a year ago

You should always have the belt on unless you are standing up for some reason. This story is exactly why.

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Ele7en7 13 points a year ago

If only there were a device to keep you in your seat when something like this happens

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fubarx 12 points a year ago

News report: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/...

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Rivalarrival 2 points a year ago

Visualization from flight data: https://youtu.be/VTAUMP2le3c

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nul9o9 6 points a year ago

I'm flying out of Burbank Monday 😃

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GreenKnight23 4 points a year ago

keep your seatbelt on or that might be true more ways than one.

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Dozzi92 2 points a year ago

It's cool, this was their incident, so clock reset. Can't happen twice in so short a span, no way!

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WanderingThoughts 5 points a year ago

And the same thing happened in Minot, North Dakota not even a week ago.

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Auntievenim 5 points a year ago

Damn

We almost got rid of Jimmy dore

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Phegan 2 points a year ago

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8.Credible Defense

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)

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All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

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lemmyshitpost

@lemmy.world

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Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!

Rules:

1. Be Respectful

Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

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2. No Illegal Content

Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

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3. No Spam

Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

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4. No Porn/Explicit

Content

-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

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5. No Enciting Harassment,

Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts

-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

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6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

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If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.

Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)

Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

go to feed...