Wasted?
plantfanatic 38 points 13 hours ago
Some people just want to break stuff. Wish achieved.
MajorMajormajormajor 13 points 12 hours ago
Personally, I'd rather have the wishes to use on anything else. Could cure cancer, become filthy rich, turn into a T-rex, have guns for hands, etc. What's the point of "out smarting" the genie like this? Fuck, I could even understand evil wishes, at least they do something productive (if terrible).
schipelblorp 4 points 11 hours ago
The thing with these wishes is they canonically have unintended consequences, so a null result is coming out ahead.
Simulation6 2 points 4 hours ago
These genie wishes are always monkey paws. Better to do something that wasn’t going to blow back, like crashing the genie.
bizarroland 1 point 3 hours ago
In the Arabian Nights, the genie tended to grant people's wishes as they were intended, and without any trickery.
The trickery of the djinn is something that has been retconned into the system.
If they didn't like you, they would just kill you right away.
And also technically Aladdin got a second genie originally with just a small ring that granted him unlimited wishes in the form of servitude.
MajorMajormajormajor 1 point 2 hours ago
You could also just not wish anything, or wish for no wishes, etc.
CallMeButtLove 3 points 3 hours ago
"S M R T... I mean S M A R T"
samus12345 60 points 11 hours ago
Imprisoning a powerful being in an oil lamp that can be released simply by someone rubbing it is a pretty shitty setup!
samus12345 16 points 10 hours ago
path: 0 24381766 24382600 24383565 24383760, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 2
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 4 points 10 hours ago
wait shit the trope is actually called that?
wolframhydroxide 14 points 10 hours ago
I really like my friend's justification in his fantasy worldbuilding, which explains it to my satisfaction:
When attempting to seal things of mundane power, mundane objects are sufficient, such as handcuffs and chains. When you try to seal something magically, that extra power needed to seal such a powerful entity has tradeoffs: the more magically unbreakable and irresistible you want the seal to be, the more fragile the conditions holding it must also be. Want to seal all the evils of the world, even for a short time? Well, looks like you're going to need to store them in a top-heavy, ceramic jar with a tiny bottom, like Pandora's Pithos. Trapping a genie? It'll be much easier if you lay the trap with conditions for release, like someone rubbing it three times. Want to bind a violent spirit? Bind it to a fragile mirror, and make it so that she is freed if anyone stares into the mirror and says her name thrice, or if the mirror shatters.
This explains a lot of the folkloric sealing rituals in mythology.
samus12345 9 points 10 hours ago
Why don't they ever put the items with the evil beings sealed in them in a heavy container with padding, then drop it into the middle of the ocean? It's like they want them to be unsealed later for story purposes or something!
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 5 points 10 hours ago
mystical sealing spells require the magic of plot contrivance
wolframhydroxide 2 points 4 hours ago
That's only effective until the saltwater eats away at all of the seals, at which point it's free again. Ancient vaults containing artifacts of fell power and their incumbent curses comprise one of the most popular adventure story archetypes. The point is, it's only gone until someone stumbles across it, and now it's _un_gone, and worse, the hapless stumbler has no idea what's going on.
MonkderVierte 1 point 12 hours ago
Trick it into obedience?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 1 point 10 hours ago
dammit iblis get back in your can
WraithGear 101 points 12 hours ago
again that’s two loops and a successful exit.
- do opposite of 2.
- complete 3.
- ignore 1
Start loop 2
- -ignored-
- do not complete 3.
- -not completed-
all wishes fulfilled, genie.exe concludes
samus12345 35 points 11 hours ago
Yup, I remember working through it the first time I saw this comic and there's no paradox here.
thebestaquaman 20 points 10 hours ago
You could argue that there is though, since the genie will grant three wishes. In that case, it operates like
granted_wishes = 0
while granted_wishes < 3:
wish = receive_wish()
granted = grant_wish(wish) # True if wish is granted, false otherwise (invalid wish etc)
if granted:
granted_wishes += 1
So we get
- Do opposite of next ->
granted_wishes = 1 - Complete 3 ->
granted_wishes = 2 - Ignore 1 -> Enter time loop (recurse)
-inner loop-
- Do opposite of next (ignored due to outer loop) ->
granted_wishes = 0 - Ignore 3 ->
granted_wishes = 1 - Ignore 1 -> enter time loop (recurse)
-inner loop 2-
- Do opposite of next (ignored due to outer loop) ->
granted_wishes = 0 - Ignore 3 ->
granted_wishes = 1 - Ignore 1 -> enter time loop (recurse)
.... etc.
We get an infinite time-loop recursion, because we never reach the third guess in the inner loops.
surewhynotlem 7 points 9 hours ago
Silly human. Genies exist outside of time. So the counter doesn't reset.
thebestaquaman 3 points 6 hours ago
Well if the counter doesn't reset (because the genie exists outside of time and therefore grants all the wishes "simultaneously" from its own perspective) we definitely get a problem, because granting 3 makes it impossible for 3 to be granted, and we get the paradox implied by the comic
- Do the opposite of next
- Do not grant 3
- Ignore 1
If you grant 1 and 2, then you cannot grant 3 (since 3 implies not granting 1). If you grant 3, then 2 cannot be granted (since it implies not granting 3). This is the simple form of the paradox.
SubArcticTundra 7 points 11 hours ago
For some reason it feels like there's one though
WraithGear 1 point 10 hours ago
the point of the genie is that he gets to intuit the unsuplied terms
Sergio 44 points 13 hours ago
I don't get it...
- "Do the opposite of my next wish", you have two wishes left, ok will do
- "Don't fulfil my third wish," you have one wish left, ok I will do the opposite and WILL fulfil your third wish.
- "Ignore my first wish" you have no wishes left, ok I don't remember anything about your first wish.
It basically boils down to "do nothing", right?
iamthetot 24 points 13 hours ago
To fulfill the third wish, the genie must ignore the first wish made. The first wish was to do the opposite of the second, so to fulfill the third wish, the genie must now ignore that command, and do not the opposite not the actual second wish. The second wish, now primed to be fulfilled in earnest, not opposite, was to not fulfill the third. But fulfilling the third is how we got into this situation in the first place, so if it's not fulfilled anymore, we shouldn't be in the state we're in.
UnderpantsWeevil 29 points 13 hours ago
To fulfill the third wish, the genie must ignore the first wish made.
These were executed in serial, so the effects have already been committed. Ignoring the first wish at the end had no material effect, because it's already been executed "flipping the second wish".
These commands would need to be actively looping before you encountered a runtime error. But the genie isn't re-evaluating the wish stack after each wish.
panda_abyss 7 points 12 hours ago
Yeah the wording on “ignore” is not the same as “undo all effects of” or “rollback my first wish”
Even so, I think it’s still just a no-op at the cost of 3 wishes.
iamthetot 1 point 9 hours ago
I mean, we are talking about a magical genie that can alter the fabric of reality to grant wishes. I trust you can suspend disbelief that the genie cannot change the past to effect those changes.
UnderpantsWeevil 2 points 9 hours ago
The premise of the joke is pedantry. I reserve the right to be equally pedantic.
TheTechnician27 7 points 13 hours ago
It basically boils down to "do nothing", right?
Sort of due to a flaw in the syntax; it (almost) boils down to an infinite loop (we'll fix the syntax to specify "I wish for you to" and use the wish flags '!' = opposite, '~' = ignore/skip (we'll assume this exhausts a wish still even though it shouldn't since it doesn't matter anyway), and for clarity, we'll make '+' mean no flags/execute normally; all 3 wishes are '+' at the start of the first loop):
- "I wish for you to do the opposite of my next wish." (flag set to do !wish2)
- "I wish for you not to fulfill my third wish." (flag set for +wish3)
- "I wish for you to [have ignored] my first wish." (now ~wish1 was set before you made wish 2; notably, this needs to be retroactive for the loop to start, so the syntax in the OP is wrong).
Now +wish2 was set. But then the flag for ~wish3 was set. But then +wish1 was set (i.e. it was never ignored; this is flawed, however, but author's logic). Now !wish2 was set. Now ~wish3 was set. Etc.
Every even loop (0-indexed) will be (+, !, +) while every odd one will be (~, +, ~).
That said, a flaw in this logic is that it should actually stop after Loop 1, since wish3 is no longer an active wish; the genie doesn't have to go back and change anything. You need the wish to be active, not ignored, to break the genie into an infinite loop.
"I wish for you to do the opposite of my first wish." as wish3 should break 'em.
cholesterol 2 points 13 hours ago
If the wishes are prioritized from more to less recent, yeah. -which I guess is the trope's tradition. But it's an attempt at a self-referential paradox akin to the liars' paradox (this statement is false). I think a shorter, but more valid version, would be 'don't fulfil this wish'.
caradenada 2 points 5 hours ago
Exactly. I don't know why people are assuming that genies loop back on granted wishes.
TallonMetroid 26 points 14 hours ago
Ackshually, he never specified that any of those were wishes.
Maroon 16 points 13 hours ago
IMHO, I feel people here have the Disney idea of a genie rather than the true Middle Eastern idea of a djin.
Djins grant wishes more like the MonkeyPaw. It can horribly backfire. The protagonist is basically using logic to neutralize anything bad the djin can potentially do to him.
Wirlocke 6 points 12 hours ago
I'd argue the Monkey's Paw is a bad example because I don't think the Monkey's Paw is actively malicious like a djinn.
I think Monkey's Paw just works off of path of least resistance. What's the fastest way to randomly get rich? Workplace accident causing life insurance payout. What's the least effort way to revive the dead? Just make the corpse start moving again. What's the easiest way to give a shambling corpse peace? Undo the last wish.
I feel like a Djinn wouldn't let you undo the reviving wish. They'd probably just put them in a coma so your son is now in a half dead comatose state forever.
samus12345 3 points 11 hours ago
The Monkey's Paw seems "programmed" maliciously to grant the wish using a method that produces other results undesirable to the wisher rather than there being any active malice on the Paw's part.
Sergio 3 points 13 hours ago
I feel people here have the Disney idea of a genie rather than the true Middle Eastern idea of a djin.
oooh that makes sense... I had a friend in cybersecurity who was always using the term "evil genie" to characterize how attackers would take any system you developed, and look for a way to use it against you.
samus12345 2 points 11 hours ago
How djinns grant wishes varies wildly in stories. Some are actively malicious, some try to grant the wish along the spirit of the wish, some are strictly literal with no actual malice intended. If the djinn is imprisoned and forced to grant wishes it does makes sense that they would "Monkey's Paw" them if they're able.
makeshiftreaper 2 points 12 hours ago
Yeah, even stories of "benevolent" djinn who want to help still backfire and those are the minority. Most are tricksters who want to fuck with you, so giving them some sort of logic loop is more likely that they break logic/causality than you'll have them blue screen of death and poof away in a cloud of smoke
panda_abyss 1 point 12 hours ago
Yeah I could see the genie undoing the first wish he ever asked for and significantly altering his life.
AntiBullyRanger 14 points 14 hours ago
Simple: 3rd wish unfulfilled, first wish ignored, doing tho opposite opposite of next wish (wish 5): wishes annulled.
The_Picard_Maneuver 7 points 4 hours ago
Did it work?
mapleseedfall 1 point 3 hours ago
Aw nice, good on you
cattywampas 12 points 11 hours ago
Genie: "I'm a thinking being not a computer, these wishes don't make sense so I'm not granting them."
Imgonnatrythis 3 points 11 hours ago
Just as likely anything that lives in a lamp for hundreds of years and manifests as a holographic vapor from a spout is indeed a computer.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 1 point 10 hours ago
do you think they have showers inside lamps? that' not holographic vapor
thereturner 6 points 4 hours ago
DjinnOS: An Arch Based Distrobution
voodooattack 2 points 4 hours ago
Disruption*
kryptonianCodeMonkey 4 points 13 hours ago
Is the joke that this would result in an infinite loop? Cuz it absolutely does not do that.
First pass of wishes
- do the opposite of wish 2.
- "don't do wish 3", reinterpreted due to wish one to "do wish 3".
- ignore wish 1.
Wish three make him go back to wish one to reinterprete, so it is now understood as:
- [ignored]
- dont do wish 3 (understood as is now)
- [doesn't matter, we're not doing it, per wish 2]
The execution of wish 3 removes wish 1, and wish 2 removes wish 3. OP would probably argue that if wish 3 doesn't execute on the second loop then wish 1 can't be ignored, and so it goes back to the original interpretation and gets stuck in a loop, but that is a bad take. The manner of interpretation is sequential, even if recursion is implemented. It doesn't (can't) get reinterpreted as a whole. The moment you're told not to do the next step, you're done. So you just wished for no wishes. Good job, you fooled yourself. Go take an algorithms class.
Furthermore, pretty sure any sensible genie would say "sorry, all wishes are final" or "I'm a genie. I'm literally incapable of ignoring your wishes. That or, "you're attempting to create an infinite loop in logic that I couldn't possibly execute on because it creates a paradox. But literally nothing in you're wishes does anything but effect other wishes, having absolutely no noticeable external effect on the world so... done. Enjoy your weird self-satisfaction over having the ability to reshape all of reality on your personal whim and still achieving literally no effect on the universe. Your mother was right about you. Go fuck yourself."
UnderpantsWeevil 4 points 13 hours ago
Me, presented with a nice man who just offered to do three favors no-strings-attached: "How can I fuck with this guy?"
comicstrips
@lemmy.world
24233
7231
10290
Comic Strips is a community for those who love comic stories.
Rules
*� Be Nice!
- Treat others with respect and dignity. Friendly banter is okay, as long as it is mutual; keyword: friendly.
*�️ Community Standards
- Comics should be a full story, from start to finish, in one post.
- Posts should be safe and enjoyable by the majority of community members, both here on lemmy.world and other instances.
- Any comic that would qualify as raunchy, lewd, or otherwise draw unwanted attention by nosy coworkers, spouses, or family members should be tagged as NSFW.
- Moderators have final say on what and what does not qualify as appropriate. Use common sense, and if need be, err on the side of caution.
*� Keep it Real
- Comics should be made and posted by real human beans, not by automated means like bots or AI. This is not the community for that sort of thing.
*�️ Credit Where Credit is Due
- Comics should include the original attribution to the artist(s) involved, and be unmodified. Bonus points if you include a link back to their website. When in doubt, use a reverse image search to try to find the original version. Repeat offenders will have their posts removed, be temporarily banned from posting, or if all else fails, be permanently banned from posting.
- Attributions include, but are not limited to, watermarks, links, or other text or imagery that artists add to their comics to use for identification purposes. If you find a comic without any such markings, it would be a good idea to see if you can find an original version. If one cannot be found, say so and ask the community for help!
*� Post Formatting
- Post an image, gallery, or link to a specific comic hosted on another site; e.g., the author's website.
- Meta posts about the community should be tagged with [Meta] either at the beginning or the end of the post title.
- When linking to a comic hosted on another site, ensure the link is to the comic itself and not just to the website; e.g.,
✅ Correct: https://xkcd.com/386/
❌ Incorrect: https://xkcd.com/
*� Post Frequency/SPAM
- Each user (regardless of instance) may post up to five (5 🖐) comics a day. This can be any combination of personal comics you have written yourself, or other author's comics. Any comics exceeding five (5 🖐) will be removed.
*�☠️ Internationalization (i18n)
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
Sí, por favor [Spanish/Español]
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
*� Moderation
- We are human, just like most everybody else on Lemmy. If you feel a moderation decision was made in error, you are welcome to reach out to anybody on the moderation team for clarification. Keep in mind that moderation decisions may be final.
- When reporting posts and/or comments, quote which rule is being broken, and why you feel it broke the rules.
Banned Artists
The following artists are banned from the community.
- Jago
- Stonetoss
- GPrime85
It should be noted that when you make reports, it is your responsibility to provide rational reasoning why something should be removed. Saying it simply breaks community rules is not always good enough.
Web Accessibility
Note: This is not a rule, but a helpful suggestion.
When posting images, you should strive to add alt-text for screen readers to use to describe the image you're posting:
Another helpful thing to do is to provide a transcription of the text in your images, as well as brief descriptions of what's going on. (example)
Web of Links
- !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: "I use Arch btw"
- !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don't say!)
go to feed...
comicstrips
@lemmy.world
24233
7231
10290
Comic Strips is a community for those who love comic stories.
Rules
*� Be Nice!
- Treat others with respect and dignity. Friendly banter is okay, as long as it is mutual; keyword: friendly.
*�️ Community Standards
- Comics should be a full story, from start to finish, in one post.
- Posts should be safe and enjoyable by the majority of community members, both here on lemmy.world and other instances.
- Any comic that would qualify as raunchy, lewd, or otherwise draw unwanted attention by nosy coworkers, spouses, or family members should be tagged as NSFW.
- Moderators have final say on what and what does not qualify as appropriate. Use common sense, and if need be, err on the side of caution.
*� Keep it Real
- Comics should be made and posted by real human beans, not by automated means like bots or AI. This is not the community for that sort of thing.
*�️ Credit Where Credit is Due
- Comics should include the original attribution to the artist(s) involved, and be unmodified. Bonus points if you include a link back to their website. When in doubt, use a reverse image search to try to find the original version. Repeat offenders will have their posts removed, be temporarily banned from posting, or if all else fails, be permanently banned from posting.
- Attributions include, but are not limited to, watermarks, links, or other text or imagery that artists add to their comics to use for identification purposes. If you find a comic without any such markings, it would be a good idea to see if you can find an original version. If one cannot be found, say so and ask the community for help!
*� Post Formatting
- Post an image, gallery, or link to a specific comic hosted on another site; e.g., the author's website.
- Meta posts about the community should be tagged with [Meta] either at the beginning or the end of the post title.
- When linking to a comic hosted on another site, ensure the link is to the comic itself and not just to the website; e.g.,
✅ Correct: https://xkcd.com/386/
❌ Incorrect: https://xkcd.com/
*� Post Frequency/SPAM
- Each user (regardless of instance) may post up to five (5 🖐) comics a day. This can be any combination of personal comics you have written yourself, or other author's comics. Any comics exceeding five (5 🖐) will be removed.
*�☠️ Internationalization (i18n)
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
Sí, por favor [Spanish/Español]
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
*� Moderation
- We are human, just like most everybody else on Lemmy. If you feel a moderation decision was made in error, you are welcome to reach out to anybody on the moderation team for clarification. Keep in mind that moderation decisions may be final.
- When reporting posts and/or comments, quote which rule is being broken, and why you feel it broke the rules.
Banned Artists
The following artists are banned from the community.
- Jago
- Stonetoss
- GPrime85
It should be noted that when you make reports, it is your responsibility to provide rational reasoning why something should be removed. Saying it simply breaks community rules is not always good enough.
Web Accessibility
Note: This is not a rule, but a helpful suggestion.
When posting images, you should strive to add alt-text for screen readers to use to describe the image you're posting:
Another helpful thing to do is to provide a transcription of the text in your images, as well as brief descriptions of what's going on. (example)
Web of Links
- !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: "I use Arch btw"
- !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don't say!)
go to feed...
"I'm so smart" - man who wasted three wishes.
save