Yeah, .zip gives its users full autonomy to block instances/users as they see fit, which is why I’m on their instance.

Why would they do that? I'm unaware of internal issues in Lemmy at this point?

While thats true, if my friend whose biggest interests are science informed dog training and animal genetics joins the threadiverse there are not enough people here who genuinely really care about those subjects to actually sustain any of the social connection she's looking for around them.

If my friend who's super into basketball and competitive league of legends join she'd have at least a couple people to talk to, but its fundamentally not what she's looking for to talk to exactly 3 other people who care about the thing she's into.

I try to remember that as much as I love the fediverse and feel at home here, it has real limitations for lots of people, and its okay if its not in a state they can go enjoy very easily. This is a space that I am passionate about and want to contribute to. I don't expect everyone to do labor to invest in a space that isnt their passion just to chat with folks when they have the ability to chat with folks somewhere else, even if that place has bigger picture downsides or harms associated with it.

Difficult when people here only like 5 things and they shun everything that is not those 5 things.

There is an instance like that - lemmit.online. It's been going for three years and it's still a ghost town.

Someone explained that that exists and hasnt connected with people, but I think a big part of why it hasnt is that theres no real social drive to comment or engage with something if theres zero chance the poster might see it. It kinda feels like you're just speaking into the void, or talking to yourself

Thats how I feel about it at least 🤷🏻‍♂️ if a human reposts stuff at least you can chat with the reposter about it, if its the kind of post where that makes sense. If the post is a "hey look at this thing I did", the reposter can't really say how it went or discuss the experience

This approach is honestly a non-starter. It lacks organic engagement, and most of the posts from people who do this have no comments or very few. It also tends to end up with one person flooding with a bunch of shit they didn't read. Personally, I usually block this as meaningless attention seeking, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Maybe try making a post on one of the movies or shows comms (I'm not familiar with it and don't know if its a movie or a show. Though you can also just post where people are.)

c/casual_conversations can also be a place to chat

I think in some cases on the threadiverse communities just have to be more catchall, because there aren't enough people to congregate around a more specific topic. But there may be other people out there who would love to chat about that with you, even if there aren't enough for a specific community for the show

(Apologies if youve already tried this, I just had the problem solving thought and figured I'd share. If its not helpful thats okay :)

I do want to watch that. It's in my list of shows to watch one the first season is done. I normally don't follow western animation or comics, but he's so derpy I think it'll be endearing enough for me to enjoy.

@Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz this is what I mean, cunts everywhere in this place, why would I encourage anyone to come here?

In most cases that a major instance isn't on the Hexbear allow list, it seems to be an instance that blocks Hexbear already anyhow, so the current layout is sufficient for that. An exception seems to be jlai.lu, which does not block Hexbear yet isn't on the approved list. In such a case, would the two instances still effectively be defederated?

https://lemmy.world/modlog

you then can filter it by your name, you might need to use lemmy.zip/modlog

The expires: 2 years ago might mean the ban ended 2 years ago

Lemmygrad and Hexbear (I think) are instances filled with "tankies", which means that they can't shut up about how awesome authoritarian regimes that present themselves as communist, like China, and some others, like Russia, are, despite all the crimes against human rights those countries' governments keep committing (according to tankies, the governments they support don't actually commit any atrocities, it's just "lies spread via anti-communist propaganda", which they also use as a excuse for silencing anyone presenting criticism about their favourite regimes). Please keep in mind that lots of communists don't see countries like China as communist, despite the countries calling themselves that.

As these instances have lots of tankies, they tend to have toxic communities. Their users also tend to hate trans people for some reason, and sometines try to harass people because of it, which is a big no-no to instances that want their trans users to feel safe, such as Blåhaj Zone.

Lammygrad are Marxist Leninist, Hexbear are dirtbag leftists. That makes them the natural enemies of center-left and centrist instances like .world.

In my opinion it comes down to a disagreement over capitalism. One side wants to destroy it, the other side wants to moderate it.

To add an annecdote, hexbear has this handy link to an image: (nsfw) https://hexbear.net/PPB

Ask yourself why a discussion platform might keep this image quick-link and you may understand why everyone defederates from them.

FediNSFW is a Piefed instance dedicated to NSFW content. Some instances defederate it due to that, while (as @Grail@multiverse.soulism.net mentioned) Multiverse and apparently Blahaj defederate it due to it hosting a 'Fautbait' community over CP concerns.

Feddit.org strictly enforces German anti-semitism laws on criticizing Israel. As a result, dbzer0 accused it of being Zionist and defederated it. I don't think criticism of Israel should be removed, but I also prefer to be on an instance with wider federation, which is why I switched my main account from dbzer0 to Sopuli.

I’m not so sure, I’d rather have a prepopulated blocklist that I can further configure myself, as opposed to instance level blocks that I can’t reverse.

Exactly, same here, as long as the defederation isn't for legal reasons, which I would understand. This is the approach that my instance (lemmy.zip) takes.

Good point 👍

They were advocating for instances defederating other controversial, but major instances. The approach lemmy.zip takes is to default block those, but each user can remove those blocks if they wish.

Okay but... have you ever tried to force your group to get together despite those two being unable to get along? e.g. Russia vs. Ukraine? China vs. Taiwan? Israel vs. Palestine? USA vs. a neighbor with oil?

Whether one side (e.g. Ukraine) can "get along with" the other side there (e.g. Russia) depends a LOT on whether they are able to agree to follow some shared rules (e.g. to not murder the other side). These are not mere political differences in the sense of left vs. right, but rather those who are proud to remain ungovernable (while seemingly not understanding what that phrase originally was intended to mean) vs. those who would rather nope out entirely than exist side-by-side with them.

Please also note that Lemmy's block tools are so misleadingly misnamed as to be almost worthy of the moniker of calling it disinformation. What "blocking an instance" does is to:

• Mute communities on that instance from the user, preventing discoverability and blocking that content from showing in your personal feed, including when browsing All

What that so-called "blocking" does NOT do:

• Hide content from those users submitted to communities on remote instances
• Prevent those users from being able to reply to, famously including vote brigading on, your own content
• Prevent those users from sending you DMs, which at first were not allowed to trigger notifications, but the Lemmy devs reversed that decision and now these "blocked users" can trigger notifications - which bc of the "style" preferred by people on those instances, can continue for WEEKS and WEEKS after you so much as reply to a post that you encountered on All, without having read the sidebar and so not knowing that this style differs from what you are used to

Besides, even if insurance blocking actually worked, it would still do nothing to not showcase the content for an anonymous guest account or a newly created account, i.e. it does nothing to help others deal with "the situation", only yourself. Which is especially notable when people access Lemmy's content from apps like Voyager that by default does not show the instance name, thereby treating all content from all instances as being equal. However, I would argue that e.g. Poland does not fear attack from all nations equally - does Poland want to be on guard against Taiwan? Or North or South Korea? What about Russia?

Defederation is a blunt tool, but is virtually the only one offered by the Lemmy devs. When the software is made more robust to offer some other alternative... then this issue can be revisited at that time.

Also, you are free at any to self-host your own instance. But to tell Ukraine and Russia that they must get along... or else what? I am saying that I reject the underlying premise of your argument. "People getting along" should not be the ultimate goal of the Threadiverse. A better goal IMHO would be "People enjoying their experiences while here". Which for many, means blocking Hexbear - and yes, for some it means NOT blocking it - and therefore since the answer is neither a clear yay or nay, we are forced into preaching the controversy for every new potential member, even though that very complexity itself is often what drives others away.

Though PieFed.zip offers an intriguing and innovative compromise: upon joining the instance a user block is placed upon the Hexbear and lemmygrad instances, and a message sent to the new user about how to remove or place such blocks. This makes federation with those highly controversial instances as opt-in, as opposed to opt-out or impossible to block or not block. That's really neat! However, that delves into a whole other can of worms on how PieFed instance blocks have problems - namely that people on the receiving end can still reply to them, though only people on the same originating instance will see those replies (or perhaps it's worse and everyone using Lemmy will see them while everyone using PieFed will not? or perhaps something else altogether?). Also this in turn opens up an entirely new rabbit hole on top of that, where Lemmy and PieFed (and Mbin, and nodeBB, etc.) would need to agree on a set of shared practices...

In short, the technology of the Threadiverse is still quite primitive in so very many ways, despite the upcoming release of Lemmy vs. 1.0. Yes defederation is a very blunt instrument, but it's all that we have been given to wield for the most part. But the alternative IMHO would be far worse, being forced into allowing bullies to thrive. The Paradox of Intolerance is ironic, but very real: allowing the intolerant to exist in your space, worse yet platforming and even promoting them, means that you yourself are intolerant. Fences between neighbors is the only hope the Threadiverse even has of surviving. Yes you are allowed to be sad at that fact, but it remains true nonetheless. Move past your sadness, to get to what must be done to thrive and move forward in a positive direction?

e.g. learn Rust and contribute to the code development of Lemmy!? Unfortunately, merely donating money is unlikely to help, as much of those funds go into the moderation and instance maintenance costs of the "highly controversial" Lemmy.ml, and the devs have refused to open a way to provide funding for the former independently of the latter. Or learn Python and contribute to development of PieFed? It likely won't help with interoperability between PieFed vs. Lemmy, and both require investments of several years, but if you want to help then there is no better way. So long as the technology remains as primitive as it is now, these kinds of blunt instruments are all that are available to us - someone would need to invest the effort to provide better.

TLDR: there are extremely good reasons why things are as they are now.

Have you visited Lemmygrad.ml? Just click on some of the threads, there's much less hostility than most Lemmy.world threads. The idea that the commies on Grad are bloodthirsty beasts or something is more a consequence of their wide defederation causing defederated instances to project their imagination, not an actual analysis of how they act.

Just registered, this is correct.

Thanks for the clarification 👍 Clarified with italics that what is being blocked is access to the communities, rather than a direct blocking of individual communities.

The key distinction I wanted to highlight—aside from unblocking being an option—was that users from the blocked instance can still interact with communities on the blocking instance, compared to defederation.

Yes; the percentage underneath an instance is its proportion of the overall Threadiverse userbase. The percentages on the large arrows are the sum of the userbases within the associated box, indicating the extent to which an instance is defederated (somewhat of an underestimation, given that 12% of users are unaccounted for).

It's actually impressively clear, I did not think it would be possible to represent all of the details in such a simple graphic. Very nicely done. But I guess anything can be improved with a bit of iteration.

It's pretty intuitive once you get the idea, so I don't think the map by itself is bad. Maybe just needed an extra explanation about the encircled instances.

Yup. Anticipatory obedience isn't the way to go!

?

According to the modlog the article was simply moved to !nahost@feddit.org as you can see here

Also The Guardian is not german state media

I know theres some work being done getting mastodon and peertube more integrated with lemmy/piefed so it may very well become more like the fediverse was envisioned.

Where you sign in one place and interact with everything the way you want to.

Call it the forumverse, it's a federated multiverse of forums

I realized that afterwards as people replied; in reviewing all instances with at least 50 MAU, I found that while Hexbear is the main user of the whitelist system, lemmynsfw now also uses it for exclusive federation with fedinsfw.

Lemmy.sinistraverso.org has it enabled, but doesn't have any instances on the list, so it doesn't seem to do anything in its case.

Ultimately most of the process involved adding additional columns to data extracted from Fediverse Observer, most importantly the block lists from Federation Checker.

From there, the hardest part was figuring out how to lay things out in a way that enabled instances with similar block lists to be placed in adjacent groups in a way that's understandable while leaving room for arrows.

Have gotten helpful feedback so far, so hopefully the next version will be easier to understand.

That's not it either. The graph is only illustrating defederations (the arrows), not federations. In other words, the blue box and blue arrow mean that those instances in the box are defederating from the instance the arrow is pointing to.

Awww, thanks!