You don't need to do a scientific evaluation to determine it is worse. It's literally shit water. You are drinking shit.
Sometimes bizarre methods like that do come out tasting great. So good idea to test
Good tasting shit though.
What comes out of that animal on the photo doesn't look to different from what went in. So my guess is, you'll just get ordinary beans mixed with some civet intestine lining and stomach acid and whatever else they ate during that time.
I've had it a number of times both in the states and in SE Asia. It's different but it is really good. Like yeah it is a different coffee and if you judge it to the same criteria as a coffee style that it isn't, of course it will fail. If a "good coffee" needs to be aggressively acidic with strong notes of papaya, pineapple, Maracuja...this is not that. It is very smooth and subtle and that is what makes it nice and different.
Don't forget blueberry. You have to be able to taste a hint of blueberry. Did you taste blueberry? Because if not, your extraction process has gone horribly wrong, you've bought the wrong beans, you're using the wrong water,and you probably bloomed for 32 seconds instead of 29.6.
Another part of the equation is that civets were very particular about the cherry beans they ate, so only the best beans at just the right time were eaten and shit out.
Well after it started becoming known as good tasting, people started capturing and feeding the civets crappy cherry beans that weren't at the proper ripeness instead of gathering the shit from out in the wild where the civets got to be particular.
So now, if you buy it, it's "shit tier" civet shit beans.
The last sentence would literally describe Palo Alto coffee that isn't shat out of an animal.
I think modern coffee is judged by how much the tastes reflect its distinct characteristics, which includes physical characteristic of the farm (altitude etc), fermentation process, and roasting process.
It takes a lot of work to produce good coffee, and the end result should let these efforts shine. Acidity, fragrance, and funk are great ways to communicate the life of the coffee to the taster. That is why they are typically the standard to determine good coffee, instead of generic and monotone"smoothness" that is shared across kirkland signature, peets, starbucks, and gas station coffees.
I read that what happened is that the workers on the coffee farms weren't allowed to get coffee for themselves, so they started using these coffee cherries, but then, of course, someone had to take that away from them too so it could be monetized.
...and then, in the natural course of things, snobby douchebags convince themselves that the crappy product they've taken from the plebs is better than the original. Poopbean coffee is just the lobster of the 21st century.
The biggest problem: the civets are held in catastrophic conditions. Cages as big as shoe boxes. Just for shitty coffee. I hate humans.
(german source: https://www.peta.de/themen/kopi-luwak/ )
(english source: https://www.bbc.com/... )
They didn't used to be, but once there was a demand and market for shit coffee then they capitalised.
I had the opportunity to try this when I was in Indonesia. The place I was at was a cafe advertising the most expensive coffee in the world, I think it was approximately USD$30 for a cup at the time (almost 10 years ago).
I remember seeing the example cages with civets inside them and a description of how it's made (plus a conversation with a friend I was travelling with), and decided not to try it.
Do you remember where in Indonesia that was? I visited one near Bandung not realising what this coffee actually was. Bit like you I left without trying or buying. The place was a visitor centre and we weren't allowed to look at the actual farm.
Well hey, lucky us, we're about to find out if I'm a liar! I just spent 30+ mins digging through photos. Is this a civet?

It's not geotagged, it was taken with an average 10 years ago digital camera, but based on the photos taken at the same time, it's in the general area of Borobudur, but not actually at that temple. My best guess is near Prambanan. Possibly we stopped somewhere on the taxi ride from one to the other.
I don't think we went to Bandung, or at least I don't remember stopping there. My memory is fuzzy but I think we drove from Jakarta to Yogyakarta so must have at least passed nearby. The place wasn't an actual farm though, just a place serving the coffee with an example civet outside.
Blimmin heck! Appreciate the effort in digging that photo up! It doesn't sound like the same place though.
I've done a similar journey in the past and there's places to stop everywhere. Even in a jungle in north Sulawesi at night, middle of no where, some fella selling durian in a cabin next to a dirt road.
This is covering a few experiences across Indonesia. We stopped at a frozen food shop which had 2 lions in small cages. Stopped at a private collector to see the world's smallest primate (which I can't remember the name of now) to find chimpanzees in cages bearly large enough to hold them. Driver stopped at a village which was ravaged by a volcano and people rebuilding their houses, asked if we wanted to stop to take pictures. Asked if we want to visit a wet market selling dog meat. Mid 2000's, driver asked if we wanted to stop by at the scene of the Bali bombings for photos. Went to a turtle sanctuary to find them baking in bad conditions. Went to a coral reef to find some of the worse plastic pollution I've personally seen. Don't even start me on Jakarta! Although that pace is improving in recent years
Place is crazy. Total lack of consideration for animals and people, unless religion or culture is involved, then the rules are strict. I got in trouble once for handing money over with my left hand.
Totally different to what I'm used to! Place is nuts.
I got a tour of the place where they proudly show these cats in the most horrible conditions. Also, it doesn't even taste good.
You tried it!?
My boss bought some a few years back. I tried it, honestly a not a bad cup of coffee if you ask me. But I would never pay for it myself.
Similar situation, tasted it, it was pretty good.
Yes, it tastes a bit earthy to me.
"This coffee tastes like shit!"
"It is shit, Austin."
"Oh good, then it's not just me."
lol, wanted to make sure this was here.
Thanks.
Incredible how humans always find ways of abusing more animals.
I assumed you were full of shit about this being abusive but then I looked it up and oops
The moment an animal is involved in the process of making money they are bred, caged and treated only as "good" as needed so they stay alive.
We’ve done the same with people… Fuck capitalism and all its sociopathic sycophants.
humans are animals too so we've not really progressed that far
Indeed
The bees seem kinda chill about it. They can just kinda fuck off after all.
Beekeeping is a real problem, especially since it became a new hobby for some people. It’s advertised as helping to save the bees but in reality the honey bees are not in danger. They are the danger - to wild bees and other local insects.
You can still get kopi luwak that's solely from wild civets--rather than captive--but the price is astronomical. I think that the last time I looked it up--more than a decade ago--it was something like $150+/pound.
I remember reading that wild animals just eat the best cherries, it has nothing to do with the digestion. The caged animals are just making shit beans.
Wild civit cats would usually cherry pick the best, well, cherries (beans) . Thereby ensuring a quality product. Nowadays they are captive and fed any old beans which means the quality is usually quite poor. I mean it still tastes OK, a bit sour, but I certainly don't support this cruel practice.
there is a lot of kopi luwak fraud, so it's possible you drank any old coffee and paid out the ass for it. an idea why kopi luwak presumably tastes so good is also that these civets have a very varied diet that enriches the coffee a lot, but caged civets are fed exclusively coffee beans and therefore the coffee won't even taste very good, so even if you did have real kopi luwak it'd probably taste underwhelming.
I have no doubt about the fact that it was legit stuff. The beans were bought from a reputable vendor and brewed at a reputable cafeteria. It was different for sure, but nothing that would swoon you.
The whole thing is based on the speciality of the way the beans are produced. They sell an image of excellence and rarity, but in the end it's just coffee.
it would have cost you nothing to not share this with us
I think it's important to know that humans treat these animals like absolute shit to literally drink their shit that doesn't even taste good, but it's expensive
FINNALLY
LITERALLY SHITPOST
Literally a shitpost.
So I have a story related to this. I teach English in Korea. One time, two 11-year-old students chose kopi luwak as a topic for their in-class (no research) project. I asked what that is, as I had never heard of it. They explained in pre-intermediate English that there is a cat that poops coffee beans. I didn't believe them at first, because it sounded so silly. But they urged me to look it up. At first, I got confused between 'kopi' and 'coffee', because Korean has no 'f' sound and substitutes a 'p' sound. But when I finally found the Wiki page, I was blown away. The fact that this is real would be so funny if it weren't for all the abuse another user pointed out.
And the civets are extremely abused to get it. Do not buy or drink this coffee. I know this first hand.
Me: spits coffee into the barrista's face "yo, this coffee tastes like dirt!"
Barrista: "well it was fresh ground this morning."
Get out! Dad jokes is that way --> !dadjokes@lemmy.world
im not sure its abuse? I know at first they were just collecting cat poop in the wild.
it being abuse wouldn't shock me, but it seems like the only thing necessary to make this is just, like, the civets eating stuff they normally eat, then collecting their poop.
I heard they're kept in cages and force fed the beans.
like I said; wouldn't shock me.
It is definitely abuse. No question. I know this because I have been there and have seen the conditions they live in as well as how they're force fed coffee beans.
wouldn't shock me
it wouldn't shock me
I remember an episode of QI where someone brought up the fact that Stephen Fry once bought (then) Prince Charles some Kopi Luwak as a present. His response was, "I thought I would get him something he didn't already have."
This was addressed in the movie 'The Bucket List's and I always wondered if there was any truth to it. Now I know. I also know, unconfirmed, that the animals are not treated well for their piece in the process. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm not rich or hardcore enough to even worry about this level of coffee, but interesting information none-the-less.
It's really cheap if you buy it local. When I was on vacation in Laos, there were signs on the side of the road for 0.5kg of the stuff for $5 usd equivalent. I didn't try it because I've heard of the animal rights issues.
I'm from one of the country in question and I'm certain animal welfare is far at the bottom of the list of our priorities.
Even our famous endangered species like Orangutans fight losing battles against palm fruit oil producers ravaging their natural forest habitat.
So yeah, that's what happens when the majority of the population still needs to compete for food with the animals.
Greed and corruption are widespread everywhere it's exhausting.
I was told by a producer and seller, that they would keep the animal hostage for only a few months and would let them free afterwards.
What I heard, was "we force feed them coffee for a few months, let them free in a somewhat controlled environment and setup traps to catch them again and abuse them again for a few months"
I am not sure if I believe them about letting them free at all.
A story I heard was that it was the poor indigenous farmers who were forced to cultivate coffee for the Dutch. They weren't allowed any of the beans they grew, but were able to collect it from the dung of civets that prowled around near the plantation. Of course, once the colonizers learned that it tasted "good", it was commoditized too.
Might be apocryphal.
No shit coffee on your feed my friend? I'm sorry, but this is a DEMOCRACYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
There's not much nutrition on a coffee fruit, so civets have to consume a whole bunch per day. This results in excessively large poops.
- source: my 8yo nephew, who knows far too much about poop.
In case your nephew is unaware, you can make him very happy by telling him that wombat poo is cubic.
I was in Bandung in Indonesia earlier this year. We visited one of these places not realising what it was. The visitor centre had a bunch of cages which weren't small but I wouldn't say large enough for the size of the animal. We asked if we can see the actual farm. He said it was the largest farm so we asked to see it. Nope, not allowed.
They're also on a strict diet. I wouldn't be surprised if the ones not on display are force fed.
If you are a living organism with the capacity to tell misery or pain just hope that humans don't find out you can make a product that nothing else an can. If you do end up I'm that situation, you will be turned into a biological machine that receives the minimum amount of necessities met as to not impact production.
Who on earth discovered this and why?
Someone with the worst caffeine headache ever, desperate for something to make it go away.
"Fine! I'll drink the raccoon shit coffee!"
So Kopi Luwak comes from Indonesia. At that time, Indonesia was under the dutch. At that time there was a famine caused by the dutch cause they were doing some unpaid labor and all the crops that they force the locals to plant is cash crops, so not edible. That caused a massive famine, so of course some starving guy decided why not try eating the poop of the animal.
This sounds like the way COVID got started.
Coffee addiction? Nothing else left?
People have done that https://sprudge.com/...
No, people would rather abuse animals if there’s any alternative.
Just start asking people why they won’t eat fake meat and you’ll get all kinds of irrational half-assed answers about how we need to continue locking up animals. Hell, animal abusers will bash lab-grown meat — they’ll do literally anything but acknowledge their actions contribute to animal misery.
The only time I have had enjoyed this coffee was about 12 years ago when I'm on vacation in south east Asia.
And to be completely honest, it was the best cup of coffee I've ever had in my life.
It was 5 or 6 times the price of a normal coffee.
Had it once too. It was a long time ago but definitely one of the best cups I've had. Can probably be described to taste as regular coffee smells, with very little bitterness. Since then I've learned many producers have the animals in cages and don't treat them well, and there are no good ways to source ethically made Kopi Luwak, so I never really felt the need to buy it again.
Surely there’s a way to do this industrially without using actual monkeys?
We know how stomachs work, we know the enzymes in their saliva, and we can even select the best gut bacteria for the best taste, stick it all in a warm bath for a few days and you’ll get the same thing.
truly a shitpost
eating cat poop: 👎 drinking cat poop: 👍
I guess you can eat the coffee beans too
i would wager that any coffee given the special care that this stuff is given will taste really quite good, and certainly good enough that there's no reason to perform animal abuse to get this specific kind.
What I want to know is, what was someone smoking when they decided they should try making coffee out of literal sh#t. I want the details on how it was discovered.
I thought this was just a joke in persona 5 what the fuck?
Literal shit tastes like shit? No shit, Sherlock.
Ya. I'm good on poop coffee.
There's a shitty way to start your morning.
Well, thanks for sharing that 👍
Business idea: lab grow the gut microbes of these monkeys and create more efficient pipeline for fermenting these coffee beans. But provide the “natural” offering too for people who have eating ass food fetish.
The problem is that it doesn't actually taste good. It's the labor-intensive and "exotic" manufacturing process that makes the coffee so expensive, not its quality.
This person says it does taste good though https://kitchensurfers.com/is-civet-coffee-good/
I've seen many more coffee folks who have opinions ranging from "it doesn't taste different than the local coffee" to "it tastes downright bad". James Hoffmann has a good video on it: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=pkbuFwHnJQY
Primary thing seems to be the quality of the coffee cherries the civet eats. So if it's just force-fed coffee cherries, it'll be no better than normal coffee. If it gets to choose on it's own, naturally, then it may pick better coffee cherries and the coffee may be better - but not because of the digestive process, most likely.
Never know until you try it. I'd be willing to brew a cup at least once.
Please don't, it is not only a product of colonialism injustice, it is also produced in extremely inhumane manner. To make the matter even worse, the industry consensus is that they tastes terrible.
Related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkbuFwHnJQY
I've had it farm fresh in Bali and at a swanky cafe in Penang. The shared characteristic was how smooth it is. Tastes different, not necessarily better or worse. Depends on what you're after in your beverage.
In Penang, we had it with a normal espresso to compare. After drinking the Luwak coffee, the espresso lost all it's flavour... It did something to our sense of taste!
Going through a factory you can tell there's no chance the poop makes it to the final product. In fact, none of the cherry meat is used, only the bean, so I question what effect the digestive process has. Maybe the preparation method is different? I haven't been to a normal coffee factory to compare.
The conditions the Luwak are kept in vary wildly, apparently the worst practices are in Vietnam. The Luwak are super cute , amazing fur, ones kept as pets were fun to interact with. The size of two house cats. Nocturnal, so I've only seen them active once.
I liked the coffee but not so much that I want to support demand for it. The Luwak is a totally unnecessary step in making what is already a great beverage regardless.
In fact, none of the cherry meat is used
I always wondered why the (non-shat out kind of) cherry fruit wasn't also sold in the West. I've read that the skin is not good, but the flesh itself is quite tasty.
!communitiestakenliterally
He's going to feel so relieved
Did you know about it before or after drinking it?
Before I knew about it I only drank a cup. After I was informed I drank a liter.
I’ve been testing the taste from human too. So far the best tastes are from Bruma or Winterfell. Each has its own unique taste. I suspect this is caused by the local climate the people lived in.
No thank you.
I remember Starbucks carried it before. It was wildly expensive.
It had a very smooth taste from what I remember. Good coffee but not that special tasting imo.
@Jezebelley sounds to me like a real shit drink
I learned this from Morgan Freeman.
I remember learning about something similar in The Bucket List movie.
If someone served me literal-shit coffee, I'd punch them in the mouth.
Fitting username
Did you enjoy a nice coprophilic coffee with your low hanging fruit?
I’ve been to one of the places and drank it. The coffee was nice but I’ve never chosen to have it again. The animals seemed happy enough, certainly nothing alarming happening. I’m sure they might prefer to roam free but you could say that about pet cats too.
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
From the wikipedia page:
Within the coffee industry, kopi luwak is widely regarded as a gimmick or novelty item. The Specialty Coffee Association of America (SCAA) states that there is a "general consensus within the industry...it just tastes bad". A coffee professional compared the same beans with and without the kopi luwak process using a rigorous coffee cupping evaluation. He concluded: "it was apparent that luwak coffee sold for the story, not superior quality...Using the SCAA cupping scale, the luwak scored two points below the lowest of the other three coffees. It would appear that the luwak processing diminishes good acidity and flavor and adds smoothness to the body, which is what many people seem to note as a positive to the coffee.” Professional coffee tasters were able to distinguish kopi luwak from other coffee samples, but remarked that it tasted "thin". Some critics claim more generally that kopi luwak is simply bad coffee, purchased for novelty rather than taste. A food writer reviewed kopi luwak available to American consumers and concluded "It tasted just like...Folgers. Stale. Lifeless.
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