Some of the LinkedIn Responses are direct and on-point, and also hilariously/depressingly based depending on how you look at it:
EDIT: In hindsight, I think I should've looked into posting this in a different community.. It's closer to a silly "innovation".. soo.. is this considered FUD? I also don't support smoking or vaping, especially among kids. Original title had "privacy-violating" before the "solution".
This sounds about right. My only quibble is about sick computers and web apps. Twenty years ago I felt good because all I needed was a text editor and a web browser. Nowadays, the hungriest apps on my desktop are Firefox and VS Code.
To be fair, 20 years ago your computer would have choked doing 1/10th the stuff either one of those apps do today. Hell, I still remember writing a prank program that would lock up my school computers because I made it beep too fast.
Wow you unlocked a memory in me. I recall doing something similar but using some send command to do the same with any computer logged in and on the network.
Week after that I met a dude from municipal school IT support and that’s when I first learned about Linux. He had Red Hat on his laptop and he was happy to talk about it. Very cool dude.
Best comment I've read for a long time
Finally, a local WEEE company gets to make a few hundred bucks selling off the glorified VOC sensors at the end.
a docker
Something tells me you don't really know Docker
My work had something like this to detect drug usage on premises for a while (it was and is a problem still) and it costed like 30k capital and 2-3 opex a year. We had it for like a year and only took it out because there were too many false flags and security didn’t and doesn’t have the staff to be chasing down every alert anyway.
It was neat that on paper it was able to detect different drugs, heroin, weed, meth all flagged different alerts with 2 of those contacting police when detected. Unfortunately it was only like 70% accurate and we didn’t/don’t have enough security staff to use it properly so it’s gone now.
Good God I hate linkedin types. Imagine thinking writing an app that literally just displays a single notification is worthy of making a whole post about. They basically wrote a Hello World app for Android TV. And I'm sure they got paid like 40k by some poor school district to do so.
Only luck I had that route was getting a free coffee & b1tcted about the industry. Networking is better than recruiters 95% of the time anyhow. Microsoft doesn’t deserve your data or attention.
In all likelihood calling manufacturer's API to read the value then compare to a compile-time constant? It's a notification hello-world merged with display-a-list hello world and manufacturer's reading-sensor-values hello world. Yes I do think it's borderline trivial
I do not claim to be amazing, and it's a simple fact that many basic examples/tutorials are named with hello world (and pretty easy to search for that way). A quick Google pulls up e.g. “Hello World!” of push notifications, Problems with simple "hello world" of ListView in Android
And of course I'm also explicitly using Hello World to reference the original comment
Vape “detectors” are the latest off-the-shelf scam product sold to well-meaning but technically clueless school administrators. They don’t work at all but they have a solid sales pitch. This tv app isn’t doing anything but forwarding a notification provided by the manufacturer of the “detection “ device.
That's not what the post is about, it's entirely about the android TV app. I assume they already built the functionally to generate the alarm signal (since it's the entire raison d'etre for the company based on the name).
A very long time ago, and much less technologically advanced:
I went to boarding school. We had a little bit of a propensity for sneaking out of the dorm at night.
New dean comes in our senior year and installs alarms on all the exits.
Our senior year time capsule contains the controlling keypad to that alarm system that wasn't even functional for twenty four hours.
I've no doubt that today's teens possess the ingenuity to bypass if not completely disable this thing.
Do kids prefer to not have doors then? Because I’m reading a lot of messed up headlines where the school removes the stall and bathroom doors and kids lose their privacy.
I’d rather have the TV with an alert than have to do competitive pooping.
It's a separate but adjacent problem.
No school should ever be allowed to take the doors off bathroom stalls.
That just seems to be the alternative that don't places are doing to deal with kids congregating in the bathroom to vape.
That seems like a management issue.
They can see the time it went offline and then the time you walked out of the bathroom. It doesn't take much to put it together.
Also I think these devices are designed to be resistant to tampering.
The dildo of an unintended consequences is approaching.
Bullies will start blowing vape smoke on other kid's desks to get them in trouble. And someone will eventual create a smoke-box class room to get the screen to light up with alerts.
Then what? You need to cross reference the alerts with a video feed or snapshots.
Then some genius will figure that using AI to analyze all of the data is easier than manually doing so.
The device still needs a human to investigate. Also it can't narrow it down to specific students. All it can say is that there was vaping related chemicals detected in the bathroom.
All it can say is that there was vaping related chemicals detected in the bathroom.
Bring in a fog machine (mostly same ingredients) and see if machines can have aneurisms.
A fog machine doesn't have any of the same metals or nicotine.
Also why would it be ok for a student to bring in a fog machine. That also seems kinda problematic
You don't vape metals unless you're running it unreasonably long and hot without juice. The studies that showed metals shedding from coils basically engineered it through nonrealistic methods that would never be repeated in the wild, you'd notice the worst taste you've ever had as the cotton singes long before the coil sheds any material. That said, vape juice is VG, PG, Flavors, and Nic; fog machine juice is VG, PG, distilled water, and essential oils if you want some smells. The bulk of both fluids is literally the exact same with the exception that vapes require USP food grade VG/PG where nobody cares with fog machines.
As to your second question: Because it's funny. Of course they'd be mad about it, that's part of why it's funny. Not a class clown, were you?
the sensors aren't placed on desks, you can see that the displays are placed outside of bathrooms because that's where kids generally vape. my high school has sensors inside the bathrooms on the ceiling and they don't work. you're thinking of a scenario that's incredibly difficult and costly to implement, I assure you no district would be willing to hook this bullshit up to EVERY DESK. the term "Simon's desk" here is likely just a name for one of the sensors they used to test this concept, with the sensor being located at the desk of a developer named simon
“Dang I could really use a hit right now”
“Well at least they can’t detect these tobacco pouches“
Blowing smoke directly into your friend's sensor to ge them in trouble.
Or ya know, vaping in the hall where you don't have your own personal sensor and you'll be back in class by the time any sensor goes off.
How is this invading someone's privacy? All it's doing is detecting if children are smoking in a room or space at school and then putting an alert up about the detection on a screen.
They have zero right to privately smoke at school, or anywhere for that matter, smoking is illegal for children and not something to be taken lightly.
Similarly, adults have no right to privately smoke whilst in the workplace in the bathroom or other non-smoking designated areas. This is also illegal and not to be taken lightly.
I agree. These are anonymous messages. I don't see any privacy violations.
They could set up camera's that record who's entering and leaving the restroom and thus violate privacy but this seems fair play to me. They'll just vape somewhere else.
They're not anonymous tho, the image very clearly labels who's desk the vaping was detected at
It says “Simon’s desk” which is the name of the guy making the post, which to me says he was testing the software from his desk.
When it is deployed, it would say “vaping detected in north stairwell” or whatever. They are not installing sensors on every desk.
Hm, maybe
So you think we should all be allowed to smoke in non-smoking places? The school already has all info on all it's kids, what else "private" is being revealed here? If you break the rules of the establishment where you are, they'll try to identify and ban you, because that's how private property and bylaws work. School is no different. If you break the rules you face the consequences.
Is this logical and useful? No. Does it help kids become better and learn? No. Will it actually reduce vaping? No, it's a leaderboard now.
But is it invading privacy? Also no. It is enforcing nonsensical draconic rules, but not revealing any information that wouldn't be already known or demanded by the institution in that situation.
Privacy isn't restricted to just your data on file. You'd expect some sort of privacy in bathrooms (I assume that's where these would be installed). It can also set a precedent. Maybe they start tracking cellphone use "ensure students are paying attention". Maybe they start tracking how often students are using the restroom, especially female students to gather data on their cycles (incredibly plausible depending on the state). Maybe they track their exact movements via school wifi. Maybe they give them laptops to spy on them at home. None of these obviously equate to one another but where does the school draw the line? Rather not have this shit in the first place.
You'd expect some sort of privacy in bathrooms
That is the whole point of this mess. The alternative is a person or camera INSIDE the bathroom at all times. The camera would be so much cheaper to deploy...but privavcy laws, rightfully, say no.
With the sensor all it does is say "smoke/vape detected", from there an adult can check the hall cam to see who went in or just go right in to catch the kid.
I assume with the monitor, it makes it easy for a teacher sitting outside the bathroom and can see the popup (in some schools they already have them to check passes and listen for screeming)
So you think we should all be allowed to smoke in non-smoking places?
No, but I see you need to make up a point I didn't make so you could attack that.
Lazy strawman, you must be from reddit
Considering they are only harming themselves, no I do not care much
As others mentioned, I think schools should dedicate resources to address this situation through education, instead of paying some start up for some surveillance gadgets
Considering they are only harming themselves
Again, we're talking about actual children. You know: people that have yet to mentally develop to the point where they can make fully informed decisions on everything and sometimes have to be "coerced" by reasonable adults into doing so.
Ding ding ding
How would you like this installed in your workplace? How about ankle monitors that detect if you're jaywalking? What about if your car had a sensor that automatically informed law enforcement if you were speeding. What if your ISP would shut off anytime you watched a video with copyright without permission.
See how bullshit "if you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" is?
There's this wild, outlandish idea that kids don't have the maturity, experience, or impulse control to make informed and rational decisions all the time. Thus we don't give kids the exact same rights and responsibilities we give to adults -- they gradually gain them as they mature and demonstrate they can handle them.
How would you like this installed in your workplace?
Yes, because my workplace staffed entirely by people 21+ is the same thing as a school filled with literal children. Also, for some unknowable reason we don't have issues with people vaping in the building despite having people that smoke and vape. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact none of us are teenagers.
What if [slippery slope]?
You do know that's a fallacy, right?
Those things are generally not illegal.
It’s illegal to buy/sell tobacco as/to a minor. It’s not illegal to use tobacco.
Most of the restrictions on smoking are not by law, but policy. 12 states don’t have any sort of ban on tobacco use.
Wow, you're lame as hell
pretty wild you can still type with that boot in your mouth. how do you see around it? do you just touch type?
Vaping is not the same as smoking and can be done perfectly safely with no drugs involved at all (i.e. flavor only vapes). It's barely different than inhaling steam.
Edit: I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and now think "relatively safely" is a better way of putting this. There's a few concerns that I'm perfectly happy to live with as an adult, but I get that kids won't have spent as much time trying to understand the risks.
It technically is a kind of steam in fact, actually. Even with drugs involved.
I think it's literally almost the same shit that's in fog machines, juice is PG, VG, Flavoring, and Nic, fog machines are (iirc) PG, VG, water, maybe essential oils for smell. You don't have to use USP food grade VG/PG for the fog though.
Steam is the hot gas that is produced when water is boiled. It's also completely see through, ie, invisible.
That is not what the vapes produce. It's a water vapor. That's why they're called "vaporisers" and not "steamers".
I don't think there's a need to so pedantic here. Water vapor is the visible part of steam, and for the purposes of this discussion, we're talking about boiling liquids, so I don't think there was any miscommunication by using the word "steam"
I'm getting a lot of downvotes, and maybe I'm wrong about what kinds of vapes kids are using? Obviously if they're using nicotine vapes, that's bad and chemically addictive.
But I don't have a problem with kids vaping the drug-free, flavored juice. It can be habit forming, but so can fidget spinners. As long as it's not actually dangerous then I don't see the problem.
Regardless of whether there is nicotine or THC, or whatever drug of choice in the vape, studies have shown that vaping is dangerous.
Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with them even vaping nicotine, especially once we're talking high school (ages 14-18.) They're already not allowed to buy it, that's enough. Sure, sometimes they'll evade the law and get it, they'll do it with white claws too, should we ban those? No, and you'd be hard pressed to find some teetotaler to say "yes" to that, but for some reason that goes right out the window when it's not "the thing they did as kids" but "the new thing they don't understand."
I'd be willing to bet flavored alcohol is more damaging to a young brain, more addictive (or at least on par) with nicotine, and what's more you can actually die from alcohol (and benzo, which the kids are getting too btw, very illegally) withdrawals, but are we banning Ciroc and Xanax and applying the flavor ban logic unilaterally or are we just singling out the vapes because the big pharma and tobacco lobbies successfully propagandized people into doing their bidding in a war against the most effective smoking cessation method on record to date?
Lotta Juul fanboys in these comments...
Nah. Poor public schools spend waaaay to much money on shit like this. Source: Have worked as a teacher in a poor public school.
One upside from not having enough budget, ghouls don't have enough money to develop stuff like this in public schools.
One would hope, but no, so long as the Super-Intendent gets his kick-backs, this is the shit that takes priority over all-else.
Unless there will be disciplinary follow-up ( -> no reason for this design), I only see this going the way of de-facto scoreboards among kids.
That's what I thought at first, but the person who wrote the article is named Simon, and based on the context given in the article I'm assuming that was a test unit he had on his desk, but the planned implementation is in bathrooms.
They can send people to investigate. Also you could just have someone outside. It should be fairly obvious.
It doesn't replace humans but it can compliment them. I'm not sure why people see this as a privacy issue. We aren't talking about some scary mass surveillance system here
It isn't individual monitoring. It is an alarm in the bathroom. It can also detect smoke from a fire.
Then why publish detection events like this? If they do start following up, all it does is warn perpetrators, and allow for fast iteration of anti-detection, to say nothing of other concerns people have mentioned (tripping other people's detectors etc.)
They can just send in security to investigate. Maybe not every time the alarm is tripped but if they start seeing often they can start making connections. They can basically plan a bust once in a while.
Kids will vape at the sensors just to see them on the TV
new challenge, get your name on every bathroom vape moniter in 1 day
Big LED light outside bathroom
paper sign underneath light "vaping detected"
The amount of over enginnering that went into this is why we can't have nice things.
If you want to record it, hook it up to a computer somewhere, detect whenever the sensor state changes and send an email to the admins...or just point a camera at it and the doorway.
Kids are gonna find ways to vape. It's just the way it is. Just like when I was a kid we all found ways to smoke. Making it more difficult just gives them more drive to "get away with it." Sometimes I feel like all these preventative measures that people come up with were by people that were never even a kid. Like banning fruity flavors. I started smoking when I was 14 and it wasn't because it tasted good.
Naah in all for the ban on fruity flavours. A lot of people, myself include, growing up didn't smoke because it tasted like trash. Imagine if cigarettes tasted like hot chocolate!
It doesn't remove all vapers, but it doesn't increase the numbers either.
It's preposterous. First of all, you aren't my mother, you don't get to decide what other adults do with their own goddamn body, this includes "inhale flavoring."
Now with that out of the way: The flavor bans are not for kids, kids are also banned from the "tobacco" flavors as well, the bans are targeted at the customers and legally that is supposed to be only adults. And as me and the other guy you're responding to are proof of, it isn't the yummy flavor that originally attracted us to things like fucking Marlboro Reds as children, and the flavor that was present was not a deterrent. Frankly, if we're banning good flavored ecigs because "kids who aren't supposed to get them anyway want them more" then so too must we ban flavored vodkas like Ciroc, and hard ciders, white claws, most mixed cocktails, hell even sour beers and delicious trappist ales are too sweet, any alcoholic beverage that doesn't taste like an oak barrel has to go, because adults can't like good flavors so those must be to entice children to buy them even though just like the vape store the sign on the liquor store door says "must be 21 to enter."
The point of the flavor ban is to make it so that adults who are legally able to buy it in the first place have a less enjoyable experience trying to quit or switch from analogue cigarettes, and as a result are more likely to go back to the cigarettes. It was lobbied for by the big tobacco and pharma corps, you're spreading their propaganda unwittingly.
Regular full flavored vape juice is by far the most effective and successful smoking cessation or harm reduction tool available to us to date, better than patches, gums, pills, yadda yadda. The tobacco corps want you using their products, and big pharma wants you to take Chantix, they do not want you vaping because they want to take your money while they kill you, and they can't do that if you have something that is 95% safer than their arsenic and fiberglass sticks and tastes like Pineapples.
I mean mothers don't decide for adults either, hopefully. But I think you missed my point.
We know that: Tobacco and alcohol companies tried (and still do try) very hard to get kids to smoke & drink, because a child who smokes/drinks will likely become a significant customer for life.
Regulators also know this, so they began aiming at removing the marketing which was clearly influential to age groups not legally allowed to consume alcohol/cigarettes. I know for example Australia banned alcohol ads during kids tv shows, tobacco advertising has been banned since the 90's.
Then along came vaping, which was neither a tobacco or alcohol product and could circumvent the regulations in place.
There is a significant young population size who will take up smoking/vaping for its social appeal - whatever that is. Let's call them pot #1.
There is also a significant young population who will try smoking/vaping, realise it tastes like ass or is too much effort and decide to not continue with it. Let's call them pot #2.
Pot #1, which it sounds like would include you for cigarettes, cannot be influenced and these regulations trying to reduce smoking/vaping would annoy them.
Pot #2 however can be influenced as long as those factors are address, e.g. ban the selling of the child friendly flavours, reducing exposure and limiting supply.
By reducing pot #2 for harmful activities like drinking, smoking and vaping, you reduce the burden on your public health system in the long term.
The big vape companies have been bought out by the big tobacco companies now, so they are one in the same.
You do know that the "tobacco" flavors are nothing like actual tobacco, and are instead still sweet just with a particular taste vape companies decide is "close enough to tobacco," right? Some people do actually prefer them to fruity or desert flavors. You have to have some kind of flavor to cover up the taste of raw Nic suspended in VG, nothing is flavorless in reality, tobacco flavors just taste bad to me, some of those kids may end up preferring it. With that said, what is really stopping pot #2 from being like "well societal pressures are high enough I chose to do it, and it doesn't taste that bad, I still wanna be cool." Then they get addicted in the meantime like pot #1? Nothing really.
Furthermore, Ok fine, ban flavors for kids. I'm not a kid, I should still be able to buy it. Flavored vodka is banned for kids, but I can still buy that, do you think we should also ban Ciroc since that's what many teens start with, or not?
Btw your link to phillip morris vapes that nobody has ever used in the history of the workd is funny as hell, I didn't even know they made these, really controlling the market, huh? Who owns Smok, Geekvape, Elf Bar, Juul, or any of the popular ones? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Phillip Morris nor is it R. J. Reynolds. And are those on PM's site disposable ones or are they supposed to be refillable? PM doesn't want you to use the good stuff that people like, they want you to have to use whatever drivel they put out.
Btw Juul is the only company who was sued for marketing to kids, do you really think it's pertinent to go after flavors adults enjoy to spite the customers of an entire industry not just that company, instead of just attacking the advertisements and companies themselves like we do for alcohol? Again then why not ban the flavored drinks for adults as well?
Also were those ads targeted ads? Why wasn't google's adsense involved in the lawsuit if so? You'd think the platform that targets ads would be involved in the suit about targeting 21+ ads to kids (which google/apple do know they're doing since they do have that sort of data on all their customers). I propose this is because it isn't about the ads for kids, and is instead about hurting the vaping industry for adults (who again, also like flavors, liking pineapples isn't exclusive to children), and pushing the big vape companies out of the way to make room for your never before seen phillip morris brand things with flavors designed to push people right back to analogue.
Banning fruity flavors sounds like it would inadvertently ban all of the drug-free vapes... Flavor-only vapes get you all the big clouds and cool-factor that's a big drive for kids, with none of the Nicotine or weed. Just inhaling the vapor on its own can be fairly safe.
Don't do it in a place used by others. This makes the bathroom usable
Also vaping is very bad for your brain. It is highly addictive and the younger the start the higher chance you will never be able to stop. Also I would also be concerned that they end up getting vapes with drugs in them. It has happened with weed.
Doing minor "crime" in school was how I became a programmer!
Of all problems US schools are dealing with, surely vaping is the one that requires the most urgent action.
It is very bad for young brains
Look honestly I don't think this is that dystopian.
Smoke detectors existed in bathrooms forever. The main use in high school seems to be catching particularly dumb teenagers smoking cigarettes in the bathroom. When I was in high school they were tuned to be super sensitive to the point where water vapor could set one off. I remember one time where the entire school had to stand out in the rain after a fire alarm went off, in what was later determined to be just two teenagers smoking in the bathroom.
Teachers also have been trying to catch students smoking for like 50 years. Back in the 20th, there were assistant principals that basically roamed the halls looking for whiffs of cigarette smoke. Part of the reason memes about hanging out under the bleachers started is because it was the best place to smoke on account of being outside, out of the way, and old school gym teachers just not giving a fuck.
This dudes app just seems like a modern update on very old concepts. Instead of teenagers smoking cigarettes, they are vaping. Instead of a smoke detector, you have something designed specifically for vapes. Instead of some super anal assistant principal on patrol, you have some super anal assistant principal sprinting across the school. Who knows, maybe this is the thing that forces teenagers to touch grass because I'm willing to there aren't vape detectors under the bleachers and gym teachers still don't give a fuck.
Sure it seems draconian, but how else are we going to get the kids to stop vaping and start smoking cigarettes like we did when we were in high school?
Won't someone please think of Phillip Morris' profit margins?
Doesn't Phillip Morris profit from vapes, too?
Bringing vapes as a popular nicotine delivery system is literally the way tobacco companies are able to proliferate and return smoking into fashion.
Also, smoking should be prohibited as well. Not only because it hurts the smokers themselves, but because others are affected without their consent.
Your responding seriously to a joke.
Yes they profit from vapes, but they dont have as large a market share, as 'anyone' can make vape juice.
I am all for vape detectors. They only detect the fumes and aren't really that invasive. They are basiclly specialized fire alarms.
Nicotine is very bad for developing brains. I don't understand why you are ok with minors using it in a public school of all things.
Nobody said they were ok with young people vaping. The point people are making is that communication and discipline, both things that require time and skill, would be a better, less invasive approach.
The point people are making is that communication and discipline, both things that require time and skill, would be a better, less invasive approach.
Perhaps that's being done as well?
But even if it is, that approach doesn't work with all people, no matter how skillful or how much time is put into it.
My problem with it is the whole purpose of what the device does based on the post is stupid. It just puts a notification on the screen as a way to try and use social pressure to get people to stop vaping. But that doesn't work cause no one really cares if you vape or not. Some people might even think it's cool or might turn it into a game of trying to vape without setting it off to impress their other friends who vape. I graduated highschool in 2019 and people definitely vaped and the only people they really cared about hiding it from were the teachers, no other students cared at all. So because of all of that this kind of device is just a waste of money that could be better spent on educating kids on how vaping is bad, just like what we did for cigarettes that worked so well.
It is literally a glorified smoke alarm.
Although, I am sure it is a slippery slope. Next the may want to install CO2 detectors and water line monitoring. They even may install pencil sharpeners in the classroom
They might also finally getting around to deterring school shooters by mounting those cool AI powered Samsung smart guns they recently installed at the Korean DMZ
Thats a bit of a wild leap. Would you be against using tech to respond rapidly to a gunshot in the school? Like those audio sensors which can pinpoint its location and alert security instantly?
Or they could start monitoring for violent words being said.
A smoke alarm monitors for an emergency, this is for monitoring people. There is a difference.
It's not hard to see how the path of "monitor and report" is sliding into a more police state mindset when it's been show that the best deterrent is education. And before people say "do both", no. Stuff like this makes kids see the school as the enemy, someone to work around and try to beat. It destroys any trust.
I understand the point here and agree with it. It also feels a bit small and irrelevant to me in the grand scheme of things.
Idk about schools outside the US but at least here, schools already have pretty extensive security camera systems that have the same issues. They are presumably only to be used by first responders during a school shooting or something like that (god our nation is f***ed up) but they do end up getting used in many schools to enforce random rules and stuff that are definitely not emergencies.
There was one time that my sister paid for an apple during lunch but asked the lunch lady if she could keep it so that my sister could come back for it later. She got called in for questioning by the police for "stealing" because the security guard saw her taking an apple after lunch had ended.
There was one guy that was running in the hallway after-hours between two different after school clubs to get information or something like that the other club's teacher. He was talked to the next day about not being in the school after-hours unless he stayed with his club and that even if no one else was in the hall he shouldn't run.
The security camera usage by staff seems like a much bigger invasion of privacy to me but trying to argue about it with anyone inevitably leads to discussions on gun violence because even people for gun control seem to think that the privacy invasion is "worth it in the mean time".
Nicotine is very bad for developing brains.
[Citation needed]
While I don’t disagree that kids shouldn’t be vaping, let’s at least stick to the realm of truth.
I didn't thinking that idea was still in dispute. There have been multiple studies in this area. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...
There's a lot of good points being tossed around but I think this one is particularly good.
Introducing!
The Narc App!
Sure to be a hit. Hit with the closest blunt object.
I'll chime in with a weird take: this is a privacy community, we are united in a sense of defending our peaceful and unproblematic browsing on the internet and sending messages to friends from lunatics who seem to want everyone treated with the suspicion of highest criminal activity. the article posted describes a "privacy infringement" onto someone who not only has already broken the rule, but strongly publicized it by making people have to smell it. the perpetrators didn't even have an expectation of privacy, so the premise is ridiculous.
I'll say it like this: if the tv detects nicotine patches on someone's skin, then i pick up the torches and pitchforks.
This. It's a sensor, detecting only a specific air type. Not a camera, not a microphone. It doesn't have to do with privacy, this is not "scan and collect data about all to punish one" and cannot be turned into one.
I'll agree it's a fuc**ing dumb idea. Like utter useless garbage. Classic capitalistic "fix behavioral trash-consumption issue with overpriced fancy tech products that sound amazing in theory and are garbage in practice, without fighting the problem at the root". Screenshot comment said tax moeny but I'm willing to bet this is some kind of private school.
There's no indication they use cameras in there. It's most likely just a sensor for vape smoke, similar to your common fire alarm.
And if it makes bathrooms a place where everyone can breathe without inhaling nicotine, I'm all for it. This is not a serious privacy concern.
Anything that picks anything up in a bathroom is a privacy concern.
In usual schools teachers are required to walk through every bathroom once in every break because the children are hiding in there to skip going in the yard. I do think this is much more annoying though.
I think your take is too far. It’s just beyond reasonable.
If a teacher were outside the room and heard a loud crash, they’d go investigate. This is doing the same thing.
It isn’t identifying individuals, it doesn’t record any information about a person, it simply flags that somebody is breaking the rules and is worth taking a look.
This is about the least invasive technological solution you could get.
And it’s a heck of a lot better than alternatives like removing the stall doors.
Its easy enough to make a tube to blow through that should remove enough particulates to bypass the sensor. The kids would never figure this out though. /s
I wish they would. It might mean fewer fire alarms tripped by vapes. (I work in a college library and it's not funny have to evacuate the building just because someone decided to vape in a study room.)
Somebody teach the kids to pentest: get into their REST API and ring it for every desk this stupid sensor is placed in. If you're better than average, get into the operations of the electric controller which these sensors are powered through and fry them. Cost the school millions and they'll (maybe) come to their senses
Yeah but putting it on 4G gives them a reason to charge for continuous use of the system and lock them in to their web based proprietary platform.
For what amounts to a fucking LED facing a photo sensor that you could've had the students make and attach to a red light.
I have a better solution: Run these videos on the screens in the hallways 24/7 to outcringe the vapers.
THAT is a fucking masterpiece.
This is reminiscent of the dystopian "name and shame" displays China has for jaywalkers. Good job, tech bro! Another innovation in our developing surveillance state.
Quite an expensive toy for the children. Because the boys will play around with it.
Just make it look uncool! Cigarettes' image went from "cool" to "I'm 12 and I want to be taken seriously by mom/oh my god why did I even tried it". From "hip" vaping, where should it's image go? (Besides down the drain)
That looks like the emblem for my old high school, all 13+ years ago. If the kids are anything like we used to be, this will not last and will either have some one smash it, or just turn it off at the wall. Hell as pointed out, odds are the ones doing it don't give a damn and revel in the attention.
Needs more "amazing." Seriously, screw these corporate ass monkeys.
🎉 Exciting news!
Oh God, no!
Man, there are a lot of fascists on Lemmy.
The funny thing is: This is very likely just a VOC detector with a fancy API. I can't imagine that they spent too much on actual hardware development, especially as they are afaik not a real hardware company.
So it will be triggered by VOC.
You know what else does cause a lot of VOC to be distributed in a environment?
Yeah. Taking a proper shit.
This has very likely never been tested on an actual toilet.
(In response to the OOP, not the OP here)
Fuck off snitch mind your own goddamn business!
At least in the United States, most schools are not a place of privacy as the schools have a certain right to authority over their pupils. Consider Tinker v. Des Moines and what it meant for freedom of speech in schools. That case won students the right to freedom of expression. It's important, but in certain cases it becomes limited by Morse v. Frederick, a case that ultimately meant that such expression must not disrupt the learning environment. All of this is to say that students have certain freedoms until expressing those freedoms is disruptive to the learning experience, and I don't think there's any solid argument that would not consider vaping disruptive to the learning environment. Considering this as an invasion of privacy is a moot point when you consider that students don't really have the same rights as adults, especially in public school situations.
This is why being a wizard is illegal in Dragon Age.
Apart from everything else, this is horrible UI.
A pop-up with an X to close button that's supposed to be shown on a TV, which will have no mouse attached.
The text doesn't even read like something that should be customer-facing.
i dont see how this is a violation of anyones privacy and trying to get kids to not get addicted to drugs is a pretty fucking good cause.
Assuming this is just a sensor for air quality tuned to this use case, I would probably have to agree. So long as it isn’t tracking specific students or taking photos, this is about as privacy invansize as the motion detector that opens automatic doors… or any old carbon monoxide or other detector which are used to legit protect public safety, just as preventing children from the claws of the tobacco industry.
i mean im all for letting people approach drugs as they please but, someone smoking weed once in a while with some frinds is not the same as massive corporations flooding media as specifically media for children with propaganda to get them addicted to nicotine. Being pro that isnt so much being pro drug as its being a corporate bootlicker and downright irresponsible.
I don't know what's with the downvotes, you're pretty spot on. Some people are too privacy-oriented on this sub
Addicted to drugs!? We're talking about vaping here. Don't strain your hand clutching those pearls.
Doesn't make anyone sound like less of a square calling it a drug.
dude never heard about nicotine thats crazy.
You think kids are controlling their doses?
the way this was framed i thought they were using like cameras and shit to detect vaping. it's just the fumes?
yeah lol fuck you, don't smoke.
also i don't care whether it's for kids or not. no one should smoke. breathing air wherever you are is a right. fuck your smoking.
edit: i think some smokers or vapists may have misunderstood what i meant by the comment above. to be clear, fuck all of you who vape or smoke anything anywhere another human being breathes. you disgusting, smelly cunts.
i hope that clears any misunderstanding ♥
I 100% support this initiative.
• Not an invasion of privacy.
• Activating a sprinkler would be a better deterrent than sending an alert to Simon.
One of the dumber positions I've seen in a while: that it's someone's right to break the rules and put others' safety at risk with fucking vaping, and disallowing that is against anyone's privacy.
edit: judging this sub so hard by this post and its comments. wow.
@lemmy.ml
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
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@lemmy.ml
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
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